28/02/2017 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

30 British people died during this terror attack in Tunisia in 2015.

This morning a judge at inquests into their deaths will set out why

he believes negligence did not play a part.

INAUDIBLE The families of the victims

already... INAUDIBLE

We will sort his microphone out, no worries.

Throughout the programme we'll get reaction from those

He just stood there with this huge gun. He ran around all the people

shouting. Just killing and murdering them.

Also on the programme - Britain's most senior child

protection officer says paedophiles who view indecent images shouldn't

be charged with a criminal offence but should go

We'll hear the rationale, and get reaction to

And meet Kate. Hello, I'm Kate, I had a heart attack a day after

running a ten kilometre race. I'm one of the youngest people to have

one of this type of heart attack with no known risk factors. We will

hear her story before ten. Welcome to the programme,

we're live until 11 this morning. We will bring you the latest from

the inquests into those British deaths in Tunisia. Also we will hear

how two executives have paid for a trip to travel around the moon. The

estimate is $50 million. Do get in touch

on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate. The inquests into the deaths of 30

British tourists who were murdered in a terror attack in Tunisia two

years ago will conclude The coroner at the hearing heard

that local policemen did nothing to stop the gunman for at least 25

minutes, but in an exclusive interview with the BBC

ahead of the verdict, a British witness has described how

he stepped in to save some This is the gunman casually

walking along the beach by the Imperial Hotel in the midst

of the attack. Trained by so-called Islamic State,

and unchallenged by the police, he systematically murdered 38

holidaymakers, most were British. Today, Alan Pembroke

leads a normal life, But he was on the beach

at the time of that attack, and did something quite

extraordinary, running back into the scene the attack

after taking his wife to the safety I ran towards the gunfire,

where I could now see I hit the deck, and as I hit

the sand, I saw a lady, she was moving, semiconscious,

breathing, and she had some I dressed her hand and covered her

wrist with a scarf I had pulled down She then told me she had pain in her

leg and she had a hole in her leg, so I got a beach towel and I wrapped

it around her leg to compress His actions saved the life of Sarah,

whose husband lay dead beside her. But he is haunted by what he saw

and angry at the failure of the Tunisian police

to intervene in time. I was on the beach for a good 20

minutes with her alone. And I saw no military

or medical staff. It is only in recent reports that

I found out police waited, They need to be held

accountable for that. Just three months earlier,

foreign tourists were targeted in an attack by Islamic extremists,

leaving 20 dead, in Tunis. But the Foreign Office did not

change their overall travel advice. The colour-coded map for travel

advice remained green for the coastal areas,

so tourists could still go, even though the Foreign Office

was warning of a high risk The senior official told the inquest

here that the criteria had not been met to stop tourists from travelling

to coastal resorts in Tunisia. Several survivors gave

testimony that the holiday and instead they were told

it was safe to go. Today, the families will finally

hear the conclusions of the coroners Let's speak now to our correspondent

Ben Brown who is outside court for us, and will be

following the inquest the coroner, Doctor Nicholas

Loraine-Smith, will be giving his conclusions on the deaths of all of

those 30 British citizens who died at the massacre in Sousse. -- judge

Nicholas Loraine-Smith. We will hear if he has any criticism of the

holiday company involved. The lawyers for the families accused the

company of utter complacency and gross neglect. That is, they say,

because the customers were not alerted to the fact there had been a

previous terror attack in Tunis three months previous where two

people had died. And also because the Hotel where the customers were

saying they say was not possibly vetted in terms of security cameras

CCTV cameras, and armed guards. Tui Had failed in their duty of care of

their customers, according to the families. They also have questions

about the Foreign Office, whether the Foreign Office should have

raised their advice in the wake of that attack in Tunis three months

earlier at the museum. Whether they should have barred all travel to

Tunisia. Families are angry about the response of the security forces,

which the inquests have heard there was an unjustifiable delay by the

Tunisian police. At one patrol, even though they had assault rifles in

their vehicle, decided to go to a nearby police station and collect

more weapons before going to the hotel to try to stop the gunman. He

wasn't killed until some 45 minutes after his attack had begun.

Thank you. Ben Brown is live outside the Royal Courts of Justice. More on

that come from Ben throughout the morning. -- to come from Ben.

Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

A BBC investigation has revealed there were more than 20,000

allegations of abuse made against home care workers over

Many of the cases involved neglect but there were also

allegations of physical, psychological and sexual abuse.

The UK Home Care Association has described the findings as horrifying

but warns the system is under extreme pressure.

Caught by a hidden camera, Maurice Campbell was jailed for over

two years for abusing 85-year-old Dora in her own home.

These images are especially disturbing because he was supposed

It is a serious case of obvious neglect.

Complaints against home carers can cover a range of problems

from cruelty to mistakes with medication to being

My father was quite a mild-mannered man all his life.

He had not had a shave, he was a smart man and became

Pauline believes that neglect, in particular when he was given

the wrong medication, contributed to his death.

Just over half the councils in the UK contacted by the BBC

answered a Freedom of information request which found there had been

23,500 allegations of abuse against home carers over

The police were involved in almost 700 cases and there

We do not know how many of the total complaints were valid but the local

government ombudsman has seen a significant rise in cases.

We have seen a 25% increase in complaints about home-care

When we investigated the complaints what we found is that 65%

of the time our investigation shows that there was fault

That is far higher than we found in any other part of the work we do.

The government says it has introduced tougher

inspections and given councils dedicated funding.

But with an ageing population and tight budgets the theory is that

Britain's most senior child protection police officer has said

paedophiles who pose no physical threat to children shouldn't be

prosecuted. Simon Bailey said

the system had reached 'saturation point', because of the increased

reporting of sexual abuse - and that 'lower-level' offending

should be decriminalised Spacek 's has announced plans to fly

two passengers around the moon next year. -- SpaceX. The pair have paid

a significant deposit for the trip. Greg Dawson reports.

It remains the pinnacle of human exploration.

But since this NASA Apollo 17 mission in 1972, nobody has

since made the 240,000 mile journey to the moon.

This is the company that claims that's about to change.

SpaceX, the commercial US rocket company, has announced plans to send

two private citizens on a lunar journey late next year.

Their owner, the entrepreneur Elon Musk tweeted -

An astronomical journey like this comes with an astronomical price

tag, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars.

Mr Musk revealed little about the mystery travellers

except they paid a significant deposit and that they are aware of

The late 2018 deadline for this flight is ambitious.

-- SpaceX has had problems in the past.

Last September, one of its rockets exploded

But it represents a new era of the space race with private

companies, not countries, competing against each other.

NASA has given its support to the plans which, if successful,

will launch the era of space tourism.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

In half an hour we are going to talk to an individual who gets personal

independence payments for his anxiety, depression, his OCD, and

his eating disorder. When he was assessed it was ruled that he

shouldn't get disability payments, but he overturned that on tribunal.

He is going to react to the fact Theresa May's policy unit has said

these payments should be for really disabled people, not simply people

taking pills for anxiety at home. Some comments. Mark says anxiety and

depression has ruined my life, it is bad enough for me to try and live on

a day-to-day basis without constant fear of my benefits being cut or

stopped. I'm 60 this year so cannot yet claim my pension. Can somebody

make the Conservatives see sense and leave us alone? Another comment,

this is sheer ignorance of depression. This is absolutely

outrageous. Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning. Especially if you are somebody who

suffers from depression, and particularly if you are" somebody

who takes pills at home". Use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and if you text, you will be charged Let's get some sport now

with Katherine Downes. If you are Claudio Ranieri, after

Leicester's performance last night, wouldn't you be hurt?

We don't know if you watched, because he was reportedly at a zoo

with his family. Claudio Ranieri was sacked as boss of Leicester a few

days ago. Nobody knew what the atmosphere was going to be like.

Would the fans be sad, would there be anger? In the end it was a

celebration of everything he achieved at this time at Leicester.

He took the Premier League title last season. The sad reality is that

it took the removal of Claudio Ranieri, as manager, for Leicester

to find the form they enjoyed under him last season. Some great goals

coming up. Check out this one from Danny Drinkwater. Leicester scoring

their first goals in the league this year in 2017. That was Danny

Drinkwater's. And two from Jamie Vardy. Meaning they beat Liverpool

last night 3-1. Remarkable, considering they had such a dreadful

season so far, finding themselves in the bottom three. They pulled

themselves out of the relegation zone. Their first match without

manager Claudio Ranieri. Let's listen to what Jamie Vardy made of

that result. Lots unfair stuff has been written. -- lots of. Lots of

stuff had been written about everybody, not just me. It got us

fired up in a good way to put a reaction on the pitch, which we have

done. What reaction to that win? Plenty. The eyes of the footballing

world would have been on that to see how Leicester reacted following the

removal of Claudio Ranieri. Chris Sutton is talking about Craig

sheuks sphere. This one, Leicester players

certainly proving a point. That's Matt Dickinson writing in the Times,

whether it is a point about them or Ranieri will be much debated. Plenty

of debate in the papers this morning. This is Richard Osman

saying, "I'm putting some money on Leicester winning the title.

Mathematically they can't win the title this year." John Cross writing

in the Mirror should Leicester players be celebrating or hanging

their heads in shame? The question over the team about whether they

downed tools to get Ranieri sacked? It is the controversy surrounding

that match and that result. 3-1 against Liverpool last night.

Cheers. Thank you. 38 people were killed,

30 of them British tourists, when a gunman opened fire on a beach

in Tunisia two years ago. As holiday-makers fled

for their lives, Tunisian student Seifeddine Rezgui,

continued his attack, entering the hotel complex

through the pool area. The massacre was the greatest

British loss of life in a terror attack since the London

bombings in 2005. For the last six weeks there have

been extensive inquests into the deaths of those

who were killed on that day and in less than an hour's time

the coroner will start to deliver his conclusions

on how they died. We'll bring you those

conclusions as they happen But first, here's a reminder

of how the day unfolded. The terrifying moment a gunman

enters a popular beach resort in Tunisia and opens fire with a

Kalashnikov. Holiday-makers flee across the sand.

For half an hour, he is able to roam across the beach and through the

hotel. Seeking out and systematically killing innocent

tourists. 38 people died. 30 were British. The

biggest loss of British life in a terror attack since the London 7/7

bombings. So-called Islamic State said it was behind the attack,

carried out by a Tunisian student. Who those who survived recall the

horror of what happened that day. He just stood there with his huge gun.

He was wandering around all the people shooting them. He was just

killing and murdering them. I just had my head phones on. I just

heard some sounds. I just thought, fireworks like everyone else did. I

just turned and looked at my wife on the sunbed next to me and she was

already off the sunbed running in that direction. I just decided to

run straight down the beach. Into the sea. I could still hear

everything still going on. You never forget that sound. Now, a coroner's

inquest has heard what factors could have ccted to the attackment one key

area is the Foreign Office's travel advice. At the time of the attack,

three months after Jihadists targeted tourists a shooting in the

condition's capital, it did specifically advice holiday-makers

against going to Tunis yasmt instead advice on its website said, "Further

attacks are possible." A senior Foreign Office official has defended

the decision. The inquest also heard claims that part of the attack or

most of it, could have been prevented by tighter security with

tour operator TUI showing utter complacency. There were four unarmed

security guards on duty that day. TUI's lawyer argued some steps were

taken by the firm to keep guests safe. The inquest also heard there

was an unjustifiable delay by Tunisian law enforcement units to

intervene during the attack with some units taking 30 minutes longer

than they should have to reach the scene. It heard this was due to

simple cowardice. From 10am, the coroner will explain

why neglect is a contributory factor.

We can speak now to two British survivors of the Tunisian terror

attack, Colin Bidwell was on the beach with his wife

He was shot at and grazed by two bullets and in Sheffield

She was also on the beach with her husband and her

Colin thank you very much for coming on. Tell us where you were when the

gunman started shooting? I was lying on the sunbed following the shade.

My wife was following the sun. I had my head phones on. I thought it was

fireworks like everybody else. By the time I got up and realised it

was gunfire, most of the people had run off the beach including my wife.

So you saw people running. Did you see the gunman? I didn't see him at

that point, no. Where did you run to? Well, I managed to fall off the

sunbed and crawl as far as I could and literally hid behind a boat and

just prayed for my life. You hid behind a boat? I hid behind one of

the spare boats from the water sports team and just put me head in

the sand and prayed to God. I thought I was going to die. Did you?

Yes. While you were doing that, you could hear the chaos? I could hear

gunfire. I didn't know if it was aimed at me, but as far as I was

concerned, someone was out to kill me. When did you realise you had

been shot at? Still to this day, I don't know. The adrenalin kicks in.

When I swam out to sea and I started to signal to someone when I turned

back to look at the beach, that's when I realised something was wrong.

I couldn't see any blood or anything, I just felt a tingle and I

just didn't know. Not until Mohamed pulled me on the boat that probably

I had maybe got an injury. Tell us about that. Well, the bullet passed

as close as it could to the back of my arm. It took a bit of flesh away

and I took one to the inside of my right leg as well. But, how they

just did nothing to me really, just scratches, you know, compared to the

injuries other people had. I count myself very lucky, very lucky.

Remarkable actually? Yes. What about your wife when you were running into

the sea? Well, when I looked up off the sunbed she was already running

to escape. I was a few seconds behind everybody because I had my

head phones on. She went a different way than what I went and it is funny

when you're panicking, I didn't really think about my wife until

later on because you're just trying to protect yourself. You're trying

to survive. The animal instincts fight or flight. That's all you can

do in those moments. You had been to Tunisia a few times, I think, before

the attack. Where you aware of the security concerns around the country

when you went this time? That's a very good question. We had been to

Tunisia on numerous owication and we were aware of the Arab Spring, the

revolution, so we decided not to go for 18 months, two years. We saw the

shocking attack. I did think that possibly we wouldn't go, but once we

went to the travel agent and we thought OK, we'll go back to the

hotel we've always wanted to go to, it suited our budget and the timing,

it was not until I realised when we got there, I met the Thompson rep,

we went to book a trip and they said that trip has been taken off because

it is in the red area. Meaning? They didn't want any British tourists in

that that part of Tunisia. That was the first time maybe it crossed my

mindment you think that everywhere is going to be safe when you go on

holiday. You think you're going to be safe. The Foreign Office have

been criticised, advice on their website at that time was that

further attacks in Tunisia were likely, but it didn't actually say

don't travel to Tunisia? That's true. That's true. I did look at it

and maybe I should have looked at it a bit more thorough, but when you go

away and you know something has happened, you never think its going

to happen to you anyway. How has what happened that day affected the

way you live now, Colin? Well, for me I've decided to live my life for

the better of my experience. I've decided that my wife is still

suffering and there is still lots of people out there injured and

uninjured that are still suffering. PTSD is the worst thing. And my wife

is dealing with it every day. We're getting help now. She has PDST, does

she? Yes. Things are improving. At the beginning it was a little bit

lacking in the help that the people who came back got help. It was a bit

slow coming through, but now, I think, you know, we have got a good

support groups with, we have got a good Facebook page and everyone stay

ins touch and regularly meets up as a group of survivors, we're not

victims, we're survivors. I made some life long friends that I have

forever. Forever. You will know that the coroner is going to say that the

people who were killed were victims of unlawful killing, but he's not

going to say that neglect contributed to their deaths ie, lack

of security at the hotel, cowardice is the word that's been used during

the inquest hearings of some of the local police officers, what do you

think about that decision? At the time, I thought it was lacking and

since more information has come through, preinquest, it is quite

shocking to think that there was that long space of time when nobody

came which is, it is concerning I will say. Everything was lacking is

the kindest word. So it would be the wrong decision if the coroner says

unlawful killing? I would rather not comment until the inquest and leave

it to the experts, that's my suggestion. OK, let's bring in

Maxine. I don't know if you know Maxine. Yes, I do. Yes. Maxine,

hello. Hello. I've got Colin here with me. Thank you very much for

talking to us Maxine. I wonder if you can tell our audience about

where you were with your husband and your 14-year-old daughter when the

attack started? We went down to the beach that morning. Bronwyn wanted

to go into the sea. So we let her go into the sea and having a lovely

holiday like everybody expects and then within five, ten, 15 minutes

everything just erupted. It was just unbelievable. I looked towards

forward on the beach and I noticed that there were people running

towards us and Bronwyn and I started panicking a little bit and then I

was getting worse and worse as they were coming closer and closer. And

there were two gentlemen, I think, some young lads were playing

football further on the beach and then gentlemen did have a gun and I

knew it was a gun and I could hear all this noise and people running

towards us. I said, "Get out of the sea now." She was saying, "Mum, I'm

OK." I said, "Get out of the sea now." I didn't want to explain to

her what I thought was happening. It was obvious what was happening. How

would you say your lives have changed as a result of what you saw

that day and also, your daughter as well, how has she been affected by

it? Bronwyn has took it really, really, really well. In fact she has

been superb really. She has really managed with it very well. We had

counselling. I had counselling. Richard had counselling. I think I

was worst because it affected me really bad. You go away on holiday

hoping for a lovely time. Unfortunately, this incident

happened, but we're lucky because we survived, but there is so many

people that actually had fatalities some families and my heart goes out

to everybody who had a fatality. I think we should have had a bit more

help than what we did as well by Government, by Tunisia people. They

probably saved our lives. They hid us in cupboards. We was in a kitchen

unit under, it was horrendous. It was really, really horrendous and

I'll never ever get over it, ever. But you just learn to live with it.

It is one of the reasons I think... My heart goes out to all them that

had fatality and that's what gets to me more than anything because I just

hoped they got help and everything for themselves and to be better

because it's just horrendous and I just hope they get the results when

they come to the conclusion this afternoon. It is one of the reasons

you destroyed your pictures from that time. Let me come back to

Colin. You have been back there. Yes. Let's have a little look.

Let's do it. Let's do it. just had my headphones on. I heard

some sounds. I just thought it was fireworks, like everybody else did.

I just turned and looked at my wife next to me on the sunbed. She was

already off the sunbed, running in that direction. I just decided to

run straight down the beach into the sea. I could still hear everything

still going on. You never forget that sound. We could hear you

breathing deeply to steal yourself when you walked in that place. It

brought a lump to my throat again, seeing it again, but I definitely

feel better for the experience of going back. I've always said this

isn't for everybody, but I just started to doubt things in my mind.

Did I really see what I saw? Did that really happen to me? I was

conscious when people were asking what happened to me I did not want

to give a fisherman 's tale. Because I couldn't believe it myself, what

had happened. So the opportunity to go back and meet the people who were

significant to my story, my particular story, Mohammed and

monster, the people who were integral to my survival. I would not

be here if it wasn't for those people. -- Monsef. What happened?

Mohammed definitely pulled me into the boat and saved my life. Monsef

Was throwing debris at the gunman, that distracted him, I was stopped

from jumping over the wall. It put all of the pieces back together. It

is all a part of my journey. Thank you for talking to us today. No

problem and pleasure to meet you. Thank you for coming onto the

programme. We appreciate it. The coroner will start to deliver his

conclusions on how the 30 Britons died in around 25 minutes.

Judge Nicholas Loraine-Smith is expected to say that all 30 Brits

He'll also examine whether the UK government and travel firms failed

He's also expected to reject a request to rule neglect

was a contributory factor in their deaths.

We'll bring you those conclusions as they happen

Our correspondent Ben Brown will be outside the Royal Courts of Justice

A rare type of heart attack that mainly affects young women.

We'll be talking to two mothers, one who is one of the youngest

people in the UK to survive this kind of attack.

One had a heart attack ten hours after giving birth, the other had a

heart attack the day after running a ten kilometre run.

Two tourists have paid to be sent round the moon; the mission next

Here's a summary of todays news from the BBC Newsroom.

The inquests into the deaths of 30 British tourists,

who were murdered by an Islamist gunman in Tunisia two years ago,

They were among 38 people killed near the resort of Sousse.

At the hearing, at the Royal Courts of Justice, the coroner will explain

why he has rejected a request by many of the bereaved relatives

to rule that neglect contributed to their deaths.

A BBC investigation has revealed there were more than 20,000

allegations of abuse made against home care workers over

Many of the cases involved neglect but there were also

allegations of physical, psychological and sexual abuse.

The UK Home Care Association has described the findings

as horrifying, but says the system is under extreme pressure.

Simon Bailey has said paedophiles who pose no physical threat to

children shouldn't be prosecuted. He said the system had reached

saturation point because of the repeated cases of abuse. He said

lower-level cases should not be decriminalised -- should be

decriminalised in preference of rehabilitation.

The Prison Officers' Association has announced more industrial action

Members are being told to withdraw from voluntary duties

An overtime ban will also be phased in from April.

It's understood the union has been warned it will be taken to court

The UN children's agency says thousands of unaccompanied child

refugees are being subjected to violence and sexual abuse on their

away from Africa to Europe will stop -- to Europe.

A report by UNICEF says nearly 26,000 children made

the dangerous sea journey from Libya to Italy in 2016, twice as many

as the previous year - and nine out of ten

It's calling on the international community to do more

SpaceX Has announced plans to fly two people around the moon. The pair

had already paid a significant deposit but were not celebrities. If

successful the trip would be the first trip in over 40 years.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.00.

We have some comments on personal independence payments. Alexandra

says, I am 45, I have depression, personality disorder, and have a

brain tumour which has left me with terrible seizures on a weekly basis.

I am under the mental health team and a specialist for my seizures.

I've had my personal independence payments put down from the highest

rated, which I need, to the lowest. And having to go to court now to

claim it back. Even letters from a specialist say I need the highest

rate and I'm unable to work. I'm now in debt and trying to level 300

pounds per month. I feel really let down. I never asked for this. I

always worked up until I became ill. Sharon says I suffered PTSD after a

bad car accident a couple of years ago. I still have anxiety and

depression and I'm on medication. I was recently awarded PIP which was

helped a lot. I would be devastated if it stopped. Some days I cannot

leave the house. I have a visit every day from a psychiatric nurse

which helps greatly. We will talk more about the government's plans

about PIPs. Katherine's here now

with the sports headlines. Leicester have pulled themselves out

of the relegation zone with a 3-1 win over Liverpool last night. Danny

Drinkwater scored this great goal. And there were two, as well, for

Jamie Vardy as Leicester won their first game after the dismissal of

manager Claudio Ranieri. The crowd had a march of celebration to thank

Claudio Ranieri for all he achieved for them.

David Haye and Tony Bellew had to be kept apart as they met in Liverpool

ahead of their heavyweight clash on Saturday. The pair came to blows

with the last met at a press conference in November.

World rugby says it is too early to speculate whether there will be a

rule change after Italy's tactics in their six Nations defeat to England

on Saturday. There was confusion among the England players with

Italy's calculated plan which frustrated Eddie Howe.

More later. Thanks very much.

This morning: women who've had heart attacks in their 30s - and survived.

Catherine Becks was 37 years old when she had a heart attack -

she was 9 months pregnant at the time and gave birth 10

hours later to a happy and healthy baby boy, Harry.

Kate Alderton had her heart attack at 30 -

the day after taking part in a 10k run - she's one of the youngest

women to ever survive a heart attack in the UK.

They both had a type of spontaneous heart attack called SCAD

which mainly affects healthy, young women.

Cardiologist David Adlam is trying to raise awareness

of the rare condition - and he's also with us now.

And Kate, tell us what happened. It was Saint Patrick's Day 2014. I ran

a ten K race the day before. That was nothing unusual. I have done a

lot of running. I work up, I felt fine, I went downstairs, I've got

two little ones, I made them breakfast. As I started to make my

own breakfast I had a chest pain which went on for quite a while. I

was quite short of breath. In hindsight, looking back I had the

classic heart attack symptoms but you don't expect it at 30. I had

numbing down my left arm. Chest pain. Shortness of breath. The chest

pain got worse. After half an hour I called my husband. He came home from

work. He saw me and he rang in ambient straightaway. At that point

I still thought it was a chest infection. The paramedics came. They

initially thought I was having an anxiety attack because of my age.

Because I kept holding my chest the paramedics did an ECG. And he said

there are some abnormalities. She said if we were -- if you were older

we would think you are having a heart attack. But we will take you

in just in case. When I went and I was met by a cardiologist. At this

point I could not understand why they were talking about hearts. I

still thought I had a chest infection. I was in the lab for two

hours. They were looking at my arteries. They kept talking to me,

kept showing me pictures of the heart, couldn't understand it. It

wasn't until later that where I was sat with people in the coronary

heart care unit, people who were a lot older than me, and it dawned on

me that there was a problem with my heart and I was told I'd had a heart

attack. Extraordinary. Clearly you survived, but there is damage to

your heart, we will talk about that in a moment and what changes you

have had to make. Catherine, your case is different, you were nine

months pregnant at the time, what happened? -- Catherine Becks. Like

Kate. I woke up feeling very thirsty, chest pain, numbness down

the left arm, I went downstairs, had a drink, just felt very tight

chested. I felt I needed to get to the hospital. I had an inkling that

it was crucial for me to get to the hospital. At the time we only had

one mile from a hospital. I went, I was told to wait, I was looked on as

a lady about to go into labour. I was pacing the floor. I knew I

wasn't in labour. Just was very focused on this vice like chest

pain. I was taken to the maternity floor. I became very unwell. They

then decided that to put monitors on the baby. They did an ECG. It showed

my heart was in trouble. I was brought into another room. I was in

and out of consciousness. I was very unstable. In and out of

consciousness for quite a while. Then they decided to transfer me to

Southampton General. I was moonlighted down there with two

doctors in the ambulance, as well. I was then stabilised. Because it was

such a long time ago, this was, well, it'll be 18 years this June, I

don't think they knew quite what to do regarding the pregnancy.

Approximately ten hours later I think they decided it was crucial to

get the baby out. I was given a general anaesthetic and emergency

Caesarean. And, yes, fortunately Harry was born fit and well. Doctor

Adler, you have let research into these kind of attacks, what can you

tell us that you have learned so far. -- Doctor Adlam. Catherine's

story is telling. These conditions are often unrecognised -- under

recognised. And diagnosis can sometimes be delayed. It is one of

the things we are trying to do on a rare disease Day, raise awareness of

conditions like spontaneous, Rory artery dissection -- spontaneous

coronary artery dissection. It is nothing to do with cholesterol like

the normal heart attacks we are very familiar with. What happens in this

case is you get a bruise which forms on the wall of the coronary artery

and it squashes. If you think about a bruise in your shin and how tense

that feels when the pressure rises, it does the same thing. The pressure

rises and it compresses the artery from the outside. That is what stops

blood flowing to the heart muscle and causes these ladies to have a

heart attack. It is a very different course for a heart attack. As a

result it's important to recognise and identify patients who, if you

like, are rather different from those patients we usually see with

heart problems presenting to hospital. Absolutely. Kate, there

was damage to your heart, what changes have you had to make to your

life as a result of that? Do you think a day after day, the same

thing could happen every day, is that a major worry? I think about

that every day. It's made a huge impact. I feel more tired than I

used to do. I left it so long to get help because didn't expect it to be

anything to do with my heart. That is why I have so much damage. A lot

of survivors talk a lot about finding a new normal. I think that

summarises it quite well. It is gaining that confidence with your

body when you have lost it. And the tiredness is hard. I think, as well,

because you look normal, you are young, people don't expect it, when

you say you've had a heart attack it is quite a shock to people. It is

the adjusting. What changes have you made, Catherine? Yours was 18 years

ago. Can you still hear me? Sorry, I didn't get that last bit.

Yours was 18 years ago. What changes have you made in your life over

those years? Basically, it is a condition I have to manage every

day. I do, I take three tablets a day. But I'm careful. I go to the

gym. I look after my health. I make sure I have enough rest and sleep.

My body will let me know quickly if I'm not getting enough rest. You

know, I'm working. I'm a parent advisor now and I really help other

parents just to, you know, I have been there when times are very tough

and it is very isolating so I really support them with a mentor as well.

I live as normal life as possible. OK. Well, thank you for talking to

us today and telling us about this condition.

With just over two weeks to go before the Dutch election,

an anti-Islam politician called Geert Wilders is leading the polls.

So why do so many people in this usually liberal country support him?

A lot of people call him a racist, but he is not a racist,

because he said if you are foreign, you can stay here,

The Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, twice.

They will not do anything at all, I do not believe them anymore.

I hope Geert Wilders will accomplish something.

When you are here, you have to accept certain

For example, I am gay, I have a boyfriend, I cannot walk

I am in a country where I used to be safe.

I go for Geert Wilders, because Holland must be a power again.

It is not Muslim, it is not every other kind of belief, religion.

A lot of politicians disagree with it, but they did not

stand up against him, and therefore it has become more

More people are starting to believe it, because it is not challenged.

A lot of people are going to vote for him, but he will not be

the President, because nobody wants to work with him.

Downing Street has defended plans to limit access

to a key disability benefit, saying that "nobody is losing out".

A benefits tribunal had ordered the Government

to extend its personal independence payments system to include people

The Government says that would add ?3.7 billion to the benefits bill

by 2023 and it now intends to change the rules around PIPs instead.

George Freeman, a Tory MP and head of the Number Ten policy unit,

caused outrage by saying the reason the changes were being made

was to make sure benefit payments went to "really disabled people"

rather than those "who suffer from anxiety".

Looking truth on the disability budget is we spend ?50 billion a

year on disability benefits and what we're trying to make sure is we get

them to the right people who are most in need. You didn't mention the

tweaks are actually to do with rolling back some bizarre decision

through the tribunals that mean benefits are being given to people

who take pills at home. Who suffer from anxiety. We want to make sure

we get the money to really disabled people. The people who need it.

Let's talk now to Labour MP and Shadow Work and Pensions

And 27 year-old James Downs who receives PIP for severe anxiety,

He's also a student at Cambridge University.

Alexandra got in touch. She receives PIP for depression and personality

disorder. James, the head of Mrs May's policy unit said, "PIP should

be for really disabled people." In the past you have had anxiety,

depression and OCD and an eating disorder. Is that really disabled? I

think these comments really concern me because living with severe mental

health problems like I have for over a decade really is not something

that's, you know, a small matter. It's something that's really, really

serious and eating disorders which is the main thing that I have

struggled with, anorexia and bulimia, they have the highest

mortality of any mental health problem. This is something that's

really serious and in this country people with mental health problems

die between ten and 20 years younger than other people. If that's not

really a disability then I'm not really sure what is and I think to

have this comment coming from somebody so senior in the Government

is just really concerning about the attitude that says, you know,

physical health problems are real, but mental health problems, they're

not really quite as real or deserving of support and we really

need to be supporting people with mental health problems because they

can recover too and it's a good investment to pay them what's a

small amount of money for them to gain their independence and live

normal lives. Alexandra what do you think of the

comments from the head of Mrs May's policy unit? Oh, I was just

absolutely devastated. I honestly felt like I'd been kicked in the

teeth. Why? I have currently lived with my condition for 12 years now

and I have had ups and downs and then got diagnosed with a brain

tumour that's left me with severe daily seizures and I still got taken

off the highest rate three months ago to the lowest rate and I'm now

trying to live on ?300 a month, getting into debt and I got turned

down at the tribunal, I'm now having to go to court. I have letters from

my specialist from Sheffield Hospital, from my mental health

team, all stating that there is no way I can work currently. I'd love

to go back to work. I can't. I'm uninsurable as well which is the

medication I'm on. OK. Let me bring James back in. You too went to a

tribunal, but you won it. They ruled in your favour saying you should

receive enhanced rates of this payment. This is what the Government

is now fighting. It doesn't want to give you this. Why do you need this

benefit to live a full life? I mean, I need to have the PIP because I use

it really to pay for therapy which I have privately. I had a real

struggle it get any therapy in the NHS. It took nearly seven years it

get any specialist trelt for really severe anorexia because I was too

unwell for any treatment which doesn't make much sense to me. But I

have had a great damage in my trust with the NHS and I have had pretty

much all that they can offer me. So I have to seek therapy and support

privately. There is no long-term therapies in the NHS that I'm able

to access. It seems to be very short-term interventions and that's

not really suitable for a long-term condition like mine which is very

complex and entrenched and look a long time to get help. So if I

didn't have the PIP I would be really concerned whether I could

continue having therapy and all the recovery that I've really worbed

hard would be put at risk and I think if therefore, I had a relapse,

and was back to going into hospital, into A all the time with low

potassium and potential heart failure and mental health crisis

with the crisis team having to pick up the piece, that's going to be

more expensive than paying me this amount of money to maintain my

health. It is a really short-sighted decision. Let me bring in Labour MP,

Debbie Abrahams. The Government say they are not cutting PIPs to people

who currently get them. So what's the wRob? 164,000 people with

chronic mental health conditions will be affected and you're right

that's about ?3.7 billion. The Government in 2015 said that

psychological distress to Dutch a debilitating extent that it

prevented you from going outside your home, undertaking normal, every

day activities was a factor that should be considered in the PIP

assessment now we're rolling back on this like they did in 2016. PIP is

there to help people with their extra costs. Scope estimate that an

extra ?550 a month is spent on extra costs for people with disabilities,

it may include somebody who may need a support worker to help them get

out and have a as normal a life as possible. You mentioned the cost,

?3.7 billion, where would Labour find the cash? It's about different

decisions, different choice, we heard yesterday that the Resolution

Foundation analysis showed that people on a the lowest income have

borne the brunt of seven years of austerity compared to people on the

highest incomes. Disabled people including people with chronic mental

health and other conditions are twice as likely to live in poverty

as non disabled people. What sort of society do wet want? We know that

this sort of thing can affect anybody. Nine out of ten

disabilities are acquired and we as a civilised society need to be doing

better. George Freeman, the Conservative MP, the head of Mrs

May's policy unit said he thought it was bizarre that claimants with

mental health problems or psychological problems who are

unable to travel without help should be treated in a similar way to

people who are blind. This is about enabling people as I say to live as

independently lives as possible. Somebody with a physical impairment

will need support in being able to live whether that's help with

mobility. Somebody with a mental health condition will also need

support to enable them to live as independently as possible. And as I

say, you've heard James. I was speaking to one of your team earlier

about their own son, about how he was affected and he has ended up

moving back in with his parents. This is happening, you know, across

the country. James, you want to come back in? I

just wanted to comment about the bizarre decision that people with

mental health problems might experience difficulties in transport

and going out and living their daily lives. I think it's really

surprising that even if physically somebody could walk down the road,

there is no consideration in the system at the moment of whether

psychologically that's actually really difficult and from my

experience with eating and going through this process of applying for

PIP, I'm physically fit so they thought I could physically prepare a

meal, but psychologically I can't do that so easily. There is a really

big gap in the way they're assessing this. I agree with that. It

contradicts with the Prime Minister herself said that people with mental

health conditions needed more support. It contradicts what the

Government has said. As others have said around a parity of he is seem.

This is not fair and it is disgraceful. Spitfire says, "Anxiety

can be just as crippling as being physically disabled in some cases,

more." E-mail from Andy, "Mental health issues are disabling.

However, they produce physical symptoms that also are disabling. It

is just another example of the Government trying to make work pay.

It is modern day cruelty." This from Clare, "I have had a life living

with the chaos caused by mental illness, symptoms include anxiety

for which I take pills at home. This latest behaviour by the Government

just shows again how much it says one thing and demonstrates another

when it comes to mental health." Thank you. Thank you for coming on

the programme. We will continue to report on that. We will see if any

decisions are made in the Budget which is not too far away. We will

have the latest news and sport in a minute. Before that, here is the

weather. Colder than Russia says one newspaper this morning! Just as

spring comes! This morning it was minus eight

Celsius in some places. We have got clear skies. Some of us have seen

snow this morning. Look at these beautiful alpacas in Derbyshire!

We have got snow in Cheshire, in Macclesfield and we have had snow

this morning and you can see it lying there in Shropshire, but blue

skies as well. It has not been snowing everywhere. It was in

Cumbria. Look at the cloud here. It is a high feature as we go through

the next few hours. Here is the beautiful picture of North

Yorkshire. What is happening is we've got this weather front here

and it's going to be sinking southwards and eastwards taking its

showers with it. As temperatures rise, you will find any snow at low

levels will be a thing of the past and it will be a high level feature.

Showers coming in across Northern Ireland and Dumfries and Galloway,

through parts of Wales and south-west England. The lion's share

of the sunshine will be across central parts of Scotland. As we

come south, again it will be mostly dry. Maybe just one or two showers.

As in the north-west, we will see fight a few showers. South-east

England, one or two showers, but through the Midlands and heading

towards the South Coast, again we are looking at some of the showers

merging. They could be wintry on higher ground. Through the

afternoon, although we will see sunshine across south-west England,

we're not immune to the showers, neither are we across South Wales.

You might see the odd bit of sleet. Northern Ireland, bright spells and

sunshine and showers for you. Quite a cloudy afternoon with one or two

breaks in Southern Scotland, but it is across the central swathe where

we've got the sunshine and the wintry showers persisting across the

far north. Through this evening, the first front makes it over to the

east and clears off. Another one comes in from the north towards the

south. So there will be showers around. Wintry across the far north

of Scotland and it's going to be a cold night. These temperatures are

indicative of towns and cities. In rural areas they will be lower. So

you will have to watch out for ice on untreated surfaces tomorrow

morning. But it does mean under the clear skies, a beautiful start for

many parts. The wintry showers prevail across Northern Scotland and

then we have got a weather front coming in from the south, bringing

rain across the Channel Islands and into the south-west of England and

Wales and across the Midlands and the South East. Behind that,

temperatures will rise, but as it engages with the cooler air we could

see snow again on higher ground. Move north of that, we're back into

sunny spells and a few showers and some of those will be wint ary.

Temperatures five in the far north to 11 Celsius in the far south.

Hello it's Tuesday, ten o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

Our top story today - the coroner examining

Our top story today - the coroner examining the deaths of 30

British tourists who were murdered in a terror attack in Tunisia two

years ago will begin delivering his conclusions

The coroner has just started giving his conclusions. The court is packed

with families eager to hear if there will be any repercussions for the

holiday company involved to the relatives believe could have done

more to prevent the deaths of their loved ones.

We'll be live with Ben throughout the programme and we'll get

Just stood there with his huge gun. Moving round all the people

shooting. Just killing and murdering.

Also on the programme - criticism for the police chief

who says low-risk paedophiles should not be sent to jail.

I am proposing that we have to take a slightly different approach,

whereby, and all individuals will still be arrested, but there are

alternative solutions rather than putting these people through the

court system. Reaction to come. And - two private citizens

have paid to be sent around the Moon next year,

Apparently they've signed We'll speak to others

on the waiting list. Let's go to the BBC Newsroom

with a summary of today's news. The coroner at the inquest into the

deaths of 30 British tourists in Tunisia is about to deliver his

conclusions. An Islamist gunmen carried out the killings at a resort

in Sousse in 2015. At the hearing, at the Royal Courts

of Justice, the coroner will explain why he has rejected a request

by many of the bereaved relatives to rule that neglect contributed

to their deaths. A BBC investigation has revealed

there were more than 20,000 allegations of abuse made

against home care workers over Many of the cases involved

neglect but there were also allegations of physical,

psychological and sexual abuse. The UK Home Care Association has

described the findings as horrifying, but says the system

is under extreme pressure. Britain's most senior child

protection police officer has said paedophiles who pose no physical

threat to children should Simon Bailey said the system had

reached 'saturation point', because of the increased reporting

of sexual abuse - and that 'lower-level' offending

should be decriminalised A doctor in Leicester

is investigating why some women suffer from spontaneous heart

attacks at a young age. Spontaneous Coronary Artery

Dissection is an under-diagnosed condition which can sometimes

occur during pregnancy. It usually results in women

suffering a heart-attack That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10.30. Becky has texted to say I've tried

working for years while having chronic depression. Even though I

was heavily medicated I was getting worse due to work and it was

detrimental to my colleagues. Now I'm at home taking pills, to use

that quote, and more stable, no longer a danger to myself, I am able

to be properly medicated which was impossible in the past due to side

effects. And an e-mail from Debra, suffering

from depression means you are an outcast at work, nobody understands

or is interested, they just want happy people chatting about their

social lives and seem to despise the person who is depressed and not part

of the happy chatting brigade. Making it impossible for people with

mental health conditions to be part of the working world.

Thank you for those. Do get in touch with us

throughout the morning - use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

and if you text, you will be charged Here's some sport now

with Katherine Downes. In their first game since sacking

manager Claudio Ranieri Leicester City beat Liverpool 3-1 to get their

first league win in 2017. Last that the players produced the sort of

performance which saw them crowned champions. Before the game fans

turned out to honour their sacked manager. Fans walked from the city

centre to the stadium to show their gratitude to Claudio Ranieri. It

took the removal of their manager for Leicester City to rediscover

their form. A great golfer Danny Drinkwater. Two from Jamie Vardy who

previously had only scored five so far this season as Leicester City

pulled themselves out of the relegation zone.

The British boxing board of control has expressed unhappiness at David

Haye's comments that Tony Bellew will be risking his life when the

pair meet in the ring this weekend. Some flash photography coming up.

Tony Bellew has described the sentiment as distasteful and

disgusting. The pair came head-to-head again after a press

conference in Liverpool yesterday ahead of their fight at the O2 Arena

on Saturday. That is all of the sport for now.

Back to you, Victoria. A judge at the inquests

into the deaths of 30 British people in a terror attack at a Tunisian

resort is beginning to lay A total of 38 people were killed

when an Islamist gunman opened fire at a hotel in Sousse on 26th

June 2015. The inquest examined whether the UK

government and travel firms failed to protect British tourists and also

looked at whether neglect was a contributory

factor in their deaths. Our correspondent Ben Brown

is outside the Royal What has been happening?

In the last couple of minutes the coroner has started to deliver his

conclusions. He has started off with some remarks when he said he will

not reach the conclusion that it was neglect that contributed to the

deaths of those 30 British tourists in Tunisia. The families of the

victims have said that they want criticism of the holiday company,

Tui. On a number of counts they believe Tui should have contacted

holiday-makers going to Tunisia that there had been an earlier terror

attack in the capital of Tunis three months before. And also that the

holiday company should have done more to that security at the hotel

where the guests were staying, make sure the CCTV cameras were working,

and that there were armed guards. The family have also been critical

of the Foreign Office's advice, and whether the Foreign Office warning

should have been raised to tourists, telling them not to go to Tunisia at

all in the wake of the attack at the museum in Tunis in March of 2015

were 22 people were killed three months before the attack in Sousse.

We are hearing right now from the coroner. We will bring you his

conclusions when we get them. I was speaking to the head of the

Metropolitan Police counterterrorism command at the time of the attacks

when British citizens lost the macrolides. It was the highest death

toll from a terror attack since London 77. This was particularly

challenging because many of these relatives had been there, of course,

in the actual resort themselves. A lot of them had seen their loved

ones killed in front of them by the terrorist. Nothing could be more,

you know, more serious and more traumatic, really, than that, to see

your loved one actually killed in a terrorist attack. That is why this

was particularly difficult. And particularly challenging for some of

the officers dealing with the families. Should and could the

Tunisians have done more to protect that stretch of beach and hotels,

that hotel, and other hotels like it? Could this attack have been

prevented? The attack could have only been prevented by good

intelligence and arresting perpetrators before they actually

carried out the attack. Once the attack is happening and started,

obviously people are going to die, sadly. But measures can be taken to

reduce the impact of terrorist attacks. Whether those measures

could actually have reduced the numbers of people killed is an open

question. Once the attack started it went on for a long time. The gunman

was able to act freely for a long time without being stopped. What do

you think of the Tunisian police response to what happened? The

Tunisian police response, you know, could have been better. It is easy

in hindsight to be very critical as to how they responded. But on the

face of it, it did seem like a slow response. And a faster response may

have helped save lives. What should be in place at resorts like that? If

not to stop an attack happening to make sure the gunman, or gunman, are

not free to run around that period of time? There are pleasures hotels

-- there are measures hotels can put in place. CCTV, better training for

staff, so that the response is faster and more professional. You

can tail top terrorist incidents. You can train and equip staff to be

prepared for it. And that can help when an attack actually occurs. But,

obviously, as I stress, you know, those measures would not

necessarily, in this instance, have reduced the number of lives that

were lost. But if you had more armed guards, more officers on patrol

around the hotels, around the beaches, surely they could have

intercepted that man. At resorts in places of the world where the threat

is highest, where the terror threat is very high, armed guards and armed

police in the locality can help in terms of response. It is easy in

hindsight to say these things. An attack happening with so many lives

lost. But it is important the hotels have an understanding of the threat,

the local threat, as well as the regional and global threat. That was

Richard Walton, who was head of the Met police's counterterrorism

department at the time of the attack. You have been covering the

whole inquests. It is important for the families, what the coroner says

today, because they are considering litigation against the holiday

company involved, Tui. He isn't going to consider that issue of a

claim of neglect. That is clear. It isn't unexpected. The coroner

intimated that is what he would say last week. Essentially, the

barrister for the families of those killed, last week accused Tui of

gross neglect. One part was about the whole issue of security at the

hotel. That Tui hadn't carried out a security audit of it, even though

there had been these previous attacks. He pushed hard for that.

The coroner rejected it. And the barrister for Tui denied it and said

there was no basis of a claim for that. Now, my understanding is that

at least 22 families of those killed will take this up in the civil

court. They will put claims in for damages, personal injury, and fatal

accident and want to take on Tui in that way. The families here

listening to the conclusions, the last few weeks has been harrowing.

Listening again. And in some cases talking to the inquest about how

their loved ones died. It has been extraordinary. I think a lot of the

survivors, and the people whose husbands, wives, brothers, were

killed were incredibly brave. They stood up and gave evidence. One

woman in particular who lost her father, her brother, and her oldest

son, standing up and basically describing their macrolides. Very,

very, very difficult. Hugely emotional. -- their lives. It was

impossible not to shed a tear. Very difficult for them. Something that

has emerged is the behaviour of the Tunisian security forces. The

inquest had been hearing how they delayed their arrival at the scene

for so long. It was three quarters of an hour, more or less, before

armed Tunisian police got to the scene and killed the gunman. This

was one of the most important pieces of evidence given during the

inquest. It came from a Tunisian investigation by a Tunisian judge.

That report was summarised. We heard it in the inquest. It was totally

extraordinary. There was a Tunisian police unit armed with automatic

weapons, with body armour, in a four by four vehicle, who were literally

minutes, maybe just about three minutes away, from the site of the

attack at the time of the attack beginning. What did they do? They

did not move towards the attack to try and take up the gunman, they

went in the opposite direction. They claimed they needed more weapons and

more body armour. They had those weapons, they had magazines with

ammunition, they had body armour and helmets. They could have gone in.

They didn't. One of their officers was quoted as saying that this was

an act of simple cowardice. Other units did the same thing. There was

a unit on a quad bike. There was a unit with armed policemen on

horseback. They will one kilometre further away. They could have got

there quickly. They didn't. The judge in the Tunisian conclusion was

that they deliberately slowed down and only arrived after it was far

too late. Thanks very much. We will be hearing the coroner's conclusions

in the next few minutes. The families listening out for any

criticism implied or otherwise from the coroner of the holiday company,

Tui, but also of the Foreign Office their travel advice, and also of the

Tunisian security forces, as well. That's the latest from the royal

court of justice. Olivia Leathley spent nearly two

hours barricaded in an office after fleeing the sound

of machine gunfire outside. I want to talk about what you

learned from the inquest. A lot of information was new to you, like

what, for example? I'm actually slightly in shock. I've just heard

the recent summary from the coroner. I can't believe it. I can't believe

they were so close. We were lucky. All of those families and friends

who lost that many people and they were that close. The police

officers. The Tunisian hotel employees were standing in front of

people they'd never even met and they showed more bravery than people

who had something to fight back with. And I'm just... I am just at a

loss at the moment. It has come as a complete shock. And you had no idea

until the inquest. I had no clue, really, about... Could it have been

prevented? I don't think any terror attack is ever going to be

preventable and that is the sad truth. Some are. There are things I

didn't learn about until today. I was hoping from the inquest that

precautions would be put in place. Better protocol. Better training for

staff. More information for tourists about what to do. That is what I was

hoping to come from the inquest and hopefully some closure for the

families. I cannot believe they turned around and drove away. I

really hope they cannot live with themselves because there are people

who are not alive now. It could not have been prevented in your view,

but British tourists could have been better protected. Yes, I think so.

We were aware there has been a previous attack in the capital. We

did read up on things and find out what was going on. But we thought

because we are here, so far away from the capital it'll be fine, you

know, but I was just hoping that there would be better security

measures put in place after something like this. Families who

lost relatives wanted the coroner to say today their loved one, it was

the conclusion of unlawful killing, with neglect. The coroner has made

it clear he isn't going to say that neglect was a contributing factor.

What do you think about that? It has got to be the most impossible

situation for those families. They need to find somebody culpable. They

need to be able to get some closure. And I believe that, unfortunately,

we cannot put that man on trial. We cannot watch him the punished to the

full extent of the law. We cannot find peace and closure in that. It

is awful that we cannot do that. It is awful that he got away with it,

in a sense. We are lucky we are still here. I just hope that

throughout all of these court proceedings, and things that they

are doing, that it is quick and easy and they get their results and the

closure they need. We will get more from Ben Brown who was outside the

Royal Courts of Justice. Prison officers at jails in England and

Wales are taking part in industrial action again from tomorrow in a

dispute over pay and pensions. We will bring you more on that. And low

risk paedophiles who view indecent images of child sexual abuse should

not be prosecuted, according to Simon Bailey, unless they pose a

physical threat to children. Simon Bailey, the National police chief's

lead on child protection says people who are not in contact with children

and have been looking at what he calls "Low-level images" online

should be cautioned, rehabilitated, and put on the sex offenders

register. So, he says, the police can focus on the most dangerous

paedophiles. I think there is a clear message that I'm giving today.

The police service working with the National crime agency has never been

so robust in this field. We are arresting over 400 men every month.

We are safeguarding over 500 children every month as a result of

targeting those people who we view -- who view indecent images of

children. Fact is, we are becoming inundated with the amount of

referrals you having to deal with, and the number of cases which our

child protection teams are having to cope with. We have sophisticated

risk assessment tools that I am as confident as I can beat will be able

to determine whether or not an individual poses a risk of contact

abusing a child. And when you look at the number of resources we now

have working within this field, you look at the numbers we are having to

deal with, I am proposing that we have to take a slightly different

approach whereby and all the individuals will still be arrested.

But there are alternative solutions, rather than putting these people

through the courts system who are now dealing with between 40 and 50%

of their time on allegations of sexual abuse, unfortunately. Cases

are taking too long to get to court. We must look at an alternative

whereby those individuals we assessed as posing little risk to

children of contact abuse have to attain some sort -- attend some sort

of rehabilitation course. Have to attend a course whereby they are

educated as to the impact of their abuse and their offending and they

are not then put into the justice system itself. The Home Office have

responded by saying downloading and viewing child abuse images is a

terrible crime and should be treated as such. Let's get reaction from the

chair and co-founder of a specialist treatment organisation for the

prevention of sexual offending and Nigel O'Mara who experienced abuse

as a child and now runs the East Midlands survivalist group who have

-- for people who have been abused. What is your reaction? We need to

think about what will be the most effective way to prevent child abuse

from happening. What is happening is we have a UK wide network of

therapists who can see anybody who feels at risk of anybody who has

committed a crime of any kind. As well as preventing further crimes,

we are also some instances, able to stop the first crime. As your other

guest knows, the consequences of child sexual abuse are horrendous.

We all need to doing everything we can to try and reduce and stop child

abuse in the UK. But if you are simply viewing images

of child sexual abuse, you have not had physical contact with a child,

then you should receive a caution, rather than the full sanctions of

the law, do you agree? They would be on the sex offenders register.

Cautioned and on the sex offenders register. So, not charged with

desertion of all viewing indecent images. The question is, there are

750,000 men in the UK with a sexual interest in children, according to

the Statistics. We can't lock them all up. 750,002

86,000 doesn't go. We have defined another solution. Provided it is

effective, it might be a good way to go forward. Do you believe people

who view indecent images of children being abused can then go on to abuse

children? I believe they can and I believe they do. And I also believe

that we are not really looking at the real issue here. The real issue

is, over the last 30 years, the police have failed survivors, and

the reason we have the backlog and the cases coming to court now is

because they asked Art in to act on something that they should have

acted on 30 years ago. I agree with the lady that prevention is the best

tool we have got, and they are one of the best people doing it. The

fact is, this is a problem that we have built into the system for 30

years. You would accept that police have made a lot of progress when it

comes to dealing with the survivors of sexual abuse, and they are, they

say, overwhelmed now, which is why Simon Bailey has suggested this.

They are overwhelmed because they have failed to act for so many

years. That may be so, but they are still overwhelmed and can't deal

with people who are physically and sexually abusing children now, which

is why Mr Bailey is suggesting that those who simply view, simply is my

work, simply view images of children being abused should be treated with

a caution, rather than charged and taken through the criminal justice

system. Every image of a child being abused means that a child has been

abused, whether you are viewing it or whether you have committed the

act yourself, by viewing it you are creating the market for it. Those

people should therefore face serious commercial sanctions. If the police

can't cope in... then what? If the police can't do their job, then they

need to be funded properly and properly resourced to be able to do

their job. But the fact that these offences are occurring doesn't

change, just because you decriminalise a part of it. It means

that those people who are abused in that situation then have no recourse

in law. Can I come in? It is important not to decriminalise the

viewing of child abuse images. I agree, for every image that is

created, a child has been harmed. I wouldn't suggest that we

decriminalise that. What I would suggest is, we offer therapy. My

experience is that therapy can be incredibly effective in stopping

people having the desire to act out, because many of the people we are

working with and offering therapy to in the community have themselves

been the victim of some kind of trauma in their history. Thank you

both. We appreciate your time. This e-mail from the wheeze, as a victim

of serial abuse since the age of four up to 13, -- Louise, I find

Simon Bailey's suggestion of giving leniency to paedophiles viewing

online abuse as appalling. A paedophile does not care about the

victim, whether they are in contact with them. "I Have worked in a

secure hospital with paedophiles, they cannot be counselled to leave

their perversion behind them. Every of them today was thinking about who

and which sex their next victim would be. That them going". There is

no low risk paedophiles. They start at a low level and quickly move on

to abusing children. A senior policeman asked me if a paedophile

can be rehabilitated. No is the answer. Thank you very much for

this. Families of the 30

Britons killed in a terror attack at a Tunisian resort are hearing

the conclusions of an inquest We'll bring you all the latest live

from outside the court and will also be speaking

to the Tunisian And a plan by a US aerospace

company to fly two private If the mission goes ahead

as planned in late 2018, humans will be returning to deep

space for the first time With the News here's Annita

in the BBC Newsroom. The coroner at the inquests

into the deaths of thirty British tourists in Tunisia

is delivering his conclusions. An Islamist gunman

carried out the killings at a resort near Sousse,

in June 2015. The coroner is also due to explain

why he has rejected a request by some relatives to rule that

neglect by the travel firm TUI Some of the families involved have

told the BBC that they are planning to take their case against TUI

to the civil courts. A BBC investigation has revealed

there were more than 20,000 allegations of abuse made

against home care workers over Many of the cases involved neglect,

but there were also allegations of physical,

psychological and sexual abuse. The UK Home Care Association has

described the findings as horrifying, but says the system

is under extreme pressure. Britain's most senior child

protection police officer has said paedophiles who pose no physical

threat to children should Simon Bailey said the system

had reached "saturation point", because of the increased

reporting of sexual abuse, and he says that what he calls

"lower-level" offending should be decriminalised

in favour of rehabilitation. The Prison Officers' Association has

announced more industrial action Members are being told

to withdraw from voluntary duties An overtime ban will also

be phased in from April. But the Ministry of Justice says

the action is unlawful and has warned the POA it will be taken

to court if it goes ahead. That is a summary of the latest

news. Join me at 11am. Katherine's here now

with the sports headlines. This was the pick the goals last

night, Leicester beat Liverpool. Leicester winning their first game

since the dismissal of manager Claudio Ranieri. The fans organised

a march of celebration to thank Ranieri for all he had achieved. The

British boxing board of control has expressed unhappiness at David

Haye's comments that Tony Bellew would be risking his life.

Tony Bellew described the comments as distasteful. The pair came head

to head again at a press conference in Liverpool yesterday.

World rugby says it is too early to speculate whether there will be a

rule change after Italy's tactics in their six Nations defeat to England

on Sunday. There was confusion among the England team. That is all the

sport for now. Back to you, Victoria.

A judge at the inquests into the deaths of 30 British people

in a terror attack at a Tunisian resort is setting

In the past few minutes, he's said the response to the attack

was at best shambolic and at worst cowardly.

Fill us in. The quote you just read was very strong indeed from the

koruna. The Tunisian security forces, we

heard during the inquest how an armed patrol who had a salt --

bustled rivals, they tried not to intercept the gunmen, because they

wanted to get more weapons from the local police patient. He said their

response had been, at best shambolic and at worst cowardly. The word

cowardice was heard earlier on in the inquest. What the families are

looking for is criticism of the holiday company TUI. They wanted the

coroner to reach a conclusion of neglect that contributed to the

deaths of their loved ones. He said he could not do that. Neglect was

not a verdict open to him, because that would have meant gross failure

by the company involved, in terms of checking the hotel security. Richard

Galpin has been covering the inquest all the way through for the last six

weeks. On the point of neglect, Richard, this is the key. This is

the families and relatives of the victims, they may well take

litigation, civil claims for financial compensation from the

holiday company. What the coroner says is important to them. It may

have an impact on their ability to bring those claims, or to win those

claims, the fact that the coroner here has set aside, saying it is not

possible to say, for gross failures you have to prove that. You also

have to prove a high wrecked cars or link between the failure and deaths

of those people who were killed in that attack. That is very difficult

to do. They don't really have the evidence to be able to do that. My

understanding from the barrister of the families. They will be looking

for more evidence when they go through that process in the civil

courts. They will want to find more evidence and witnesses. We must

stress, TUI strongly denies any neglect or failures. One of the

points the coroner has been referring to is whether there should

have been more guards at the hotel where the 30 British citizens lost

their lives. For example, he was saying, the question about armed

guards is limited by Tunisian firearms laws. It would be difficult

for them to have armed guards. It is not impossible. It is possible to

get a license to do it, but clearly they weren't at the hotel. There

were only three guards there on the day. They weren't trained. They

didn't even have walkie-talkies. One supposed guard was on the beach. The

barrister for the families was saying he was the guy that handed

out the cushions for the guys to sit on sunbeds. Not only did he not have

a walkie-talkie, he didn't have a phone to communicate at all. It was,

as the judge said, utterly shambolic. Questions about the CCTV

cameras in the Hotel as well. Whether all of that taken together,

if there had been good CCTV and a good number of guards, that might

have been a deterrent, so the gunmen might not have attacked in the first

place. Yes, the key point is, we heard evidence in the inquest that

the terrorist cell responsible for the attack had carried out

reconnaissance on the Hotel prior. They deemed it to be an easy target.

So there is definitely that element, but still it is not enough to

persuade the judge to include neglect, there is the need for the

gross failure. To establish it, it would have made a difference with

CCTV, and it is difficult to establish. The strongest words have

come about the Tunisian security forces, at best shambolic, at worst

cowardly. Strong criticism. I am not surprised, given what we heard from

the investigation carried out by the Tunisian authorities. One group of

armed policeman effectively running away. They didn't go to the scene of

the attack, which is their job. Their role was to protect two

arrests in these resorts. They ran back, driving back to the

headquarters, come armed spent eight minutes inside the police

headquarters -- the commander spent eight minutes. The whole thing was a

deliberate delaying tactic, because they were terrified. To be fair, in

some respects, there is no excuse, of course, but they had no idea how

many people were involved in the attack. Maybe they felt there were

three or four different gunmen, and couldn't take them on, but it is not

an excuse. OK, Richard. Thank you. The inquest heard that the armed

police could have been at the scene within three minutes, but it was

almost three quarters of an hour before they finally intercepted and

killed the gunmen who had, by that time, already slaughtered 38 people,

30 of them British. The worst attack on British citizens, the worst

terror attack since the seventh July 2000 and five. The coroner is

continuing to deliver his conclusions. We will bring you more

as we get it. -- seventh July 2000 and five. The simple and tragic...

the police response should and could have been effective, says the

coroner this morning, he has not found a direct and causal link, he

said, between the response of armed officers in the area, and the

deaths. He is more detail about how the day unfolded. The

a gunmen enters a holiday resort in Tunisia and opens fire.

Holiday-makers flee across the sand. For half an hour, he is able to roam

across the beach, enter the Hotel, seeking out and systematically

killing innocent tourists. 38 people died, 30 were British. The biggest

loss of British life in a terror attack since the London 7-7

bombings. So-called Islamic State said it was behind the attack,

carried out by a Tunisian student. Those who survived recall the horror

of what happened that day. I just stood there, he had this huge gun.

Moving around all the people, shooting. Killing and murdering...

I just had my headphones on, and I heard some sounds. I thought,

fireworks, like everyone else did. I turned and looked, my wife on the

sunbed next to me, and she was already off the sunbed, running in

that direction. I decided to run straight down the beach. Into the

sea. I could still hear everything still going on. You never forget

that sound. Now a coroner's inquest has heard what factors could have

contributed to the attack. One key area is the Foreign Office's travel

advice. Three months after being targeted, it did not specifically

advised holiday-makers against going to Tunisia. Instead, advice on its

website stated further attacks are possible. A senior Foreign Office

official has defended position. Part or most of the attack could have

been prevented by tighter security with tour operated TUI.

Some steps were taken by the firm to keep guests say. The inquest also

heard there was an unjustifiable delay by Tunisian law enforcement

units with some units taking 30 minutes longer than they should have

to reach the scene. It heard this was due to "Simple cowardice".

The Foreign Office now advises against all but essential travel to

Tunisia. We can talk now to Nabil Ammar,

the Tunisian Ambassador Colin Bidwell is back with us,

he was on the beach with his wife He was shot at and

grazed by two bullets. And Richard Barrett is the former

head of counter-terrorism at MI6, and now the director

of the Global Strategy Network, which works with governments

and international organisations What do you think of the Foreign

Office's current advice that all but essential travel to your country is

the latest advice? I think it is too tough. It does not reflect the

correct situation on the ground. There have been a lot of

improvements brought to Tunisian security services. And more

important than that, the whole country is much better prepared to

struggle against terrorism. So there is a new context in Tunisia, and we

would ask you to take into account this new context. What happened in

Tunisia could have happened everywhere in the world, including

in the most sophisticated countries with the most specialised and

sophisticated security services. It has happened, actually. Not that it

could happen, it has happened already. We are only asking to be

treated fairly according to what is the situation on the ground. You may

know that we are between the US and UK when it comes to international

threats and terrorism. We do not understand why we are banned when we

should not be and should be supported. Let's bring in Richard

Barrett, does the ambassador have a fair point? I think it is true,

terrorism can happen anywhere. Terrorists go. At targets. -- for

soft targets. But the advice at the moment is not to say to British

people, only go to Paris for essential business, or only go to

Brussels for essential business. Exactly. And in London, too. Let's

not forget, That's the case in 2015? Yes. The

fact of the matter is, there is a preparedness which tends to mitigate

these attacks. If a terrorist sees that there is some protection around

a target they will go on and move elsewhere, but I think if you just

knock it down the road to the next hotel, you haven't really gained

anything very much as a country. So I think for Tunisia and other

countries which are prime destinations particularly for

western tourists they have to have a whole area of protection which is

enormously expensive and if you lay it on too thick I guess it puts

tourists off as well. I wonder if you think with the deaths of 38, the

murders of 38 people that day, the fact that your tourist industry has

been hit and countries like the UK, advising people only to go to

Tunisia unless it is essential that the terrorists have won? Yes. This

is the wrong message to deliver to them. It is not all the countries

that are banning Tunisia from travel. They have their own

citizens. We do protect our citizens as well. We are very conscious and

anxious about the security for our own people as we are for our guests

so we are not wanting tourists to come back again at any cost. We are

saying that there have been a lot of improvements that have to be taken

into account. Zero risk doesn't exist anywhere. If we are really

serious about struggling against terrorism which is an international

problem that we have not cre crit add, we have not created the

ideology, they didn't train in Tunisia. So they need ideology and

money and we are not responsible. When it comes to the chain of

responsibility, I would appeal to all the wise people to all those who

really want to know about the truth, and to go through the chain of

responsibility until they detect who is responsible. But we, Tunisians

are apooling to our friends to show more solidarity with us to struggle

with us, our security is part of their security. Let me bring in

Colin who was on the beach that day when the attack happened. How do you

react to what the coroner has said so far that the response from the

police at that time was at best sham bottle k and at worst cowardly?

Well, think that's been common knowledge before today anyway. With

some of the findings on some particular television programmes. I

mean I must say... Well, it is now official. The only thing I will say.

How do you respond to that? Well, I still think it is a little bit of

everyone. I don't think anyone is particularly to blame and this is

just my opinion, but I must say the Tunisian people on the day and the

way they looked after the injured and everything was, you know, first

class, you know, they have nothing to give, but they gave us

everything. So well, it is the Security Services that were at

fault. It is the armed police patrols. It is not the Tunisian

people. That's what the coroner is talking about, you know, the armed

police patrol just three minutes away... Yes. Instead of going

towards those who were injured and dead, actually decided to go in the

opposite direction to a police station to get more weapons. A lot

of people who visited the area know there is around they are just around

the corner with some armed police and how they didn't get there, I

don't know, but obviously the more it develops, the more we will find

out. I don't think Tunisia as a country should be punished. Richard

as, as a former professional, what do you think of that behaviour by

those armed police officers? Well, I think it is lack of preparedness and

it is lack of practise, you know, in this country for example, in and in

many other countries and I'm sure in Tunisia too, people do drills, you

know and plan and prepare for such an incident as this. Fortunately, it

is very, very rare, but when it happens, like in Sousse in June of

2015, I mean, you know, it's a very, very dramatic incident and everybody

says we should have been doing morement to be fair to the Tunisian

people and to the Tunisian authorities to prodict these things