Browse content similar to 21/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
"Without him there would be no peace" - one of the tributes | :00:10. | :00:17. | |
to Martin McGuiness, the former IRA leader turned | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
peacekeeper who's died this morning aged 66. | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
My journey's been a long journey, I've been over 25 years working | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
People were being murdered by the RUC, or they were | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
being murdered wholesale as they were at Bloody Sunday | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
And the fact that many young people like myself - | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
supported by many thousands in the city, I'm not saying | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
They decided to fight back. I do not regret any of that. | :00:49. | :01:01. | |
Also on the programme - the dad falsely accused | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
of being a paedophile because of a typo by police | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
If you're a decent person, who lives a decent life, | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
I found that really frightening for me, | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
We'll bring you that interview before the end of the programme. | :01:12. | :01:28. | |
The former deputy first minister of Northern Ireland - | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
Martin McGuinness - has died in hospital in Londonderry. | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
He was 66 and had been suffering from a rare heart condition. | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
As a senior figure in the IRA, Mr McGuinness was often accused | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
of killing, and ordering others to kill. | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
He went on to play an important role as a Sinn Fein | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
Chris Buckler looks back at his life. | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
To paint a true picture of Martin McGuinness, | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
He was a paramilitary who once embraced violence, | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
but also a peacemaker who reached out to rivals, a man who could be | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
Born in Londonderry, into a large Catholic family, | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
Martin McGuinness came of age as Northern Ireland's | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
In that time of violence, he joined the IRA, quickly | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Can you say whether the bombing is likely to stop in the near future, | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
Well, I always take into consideration the feelings | :02:29. | :02:38. | |
The 1970s saw him become one of the faces of ruthless | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
Irish republicanism, and he was jailed for terrorist | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
McGuinness has changed considerably from the young man who used | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
to swagger around the no-go areas in Londonderry, as commander | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
What had started as a fight for civil rights had | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
Yet, alongside the many bombings and shootings, | :02:58. | :03:05. | |
Martin McGuinness saw opportunities at the ballot box for | :03:06. | :03:07. | |
Sinn Fein, the political party linked to the IRA. | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
Even then, the language of threat remained. | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
We don't believe that winning elections, and winning | :03:15. | :03:16. | |
any amount of votes, will bring freedom in Ireland. | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
At the end of the day, it will be the cutting edge of IRA | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
But, after years of killings and chaos, in the 1990s, | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
IRA ceasefires offered the opportunity for talks | :03:29. | :03:29. | |
Not only would they shake hands, after the signing | :03:30. | :03:46. | |
of the Good Friday Agreement, they joined each | :03:47. | :03:48. | |
Eventually, at its head was the unlikely partnership | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
of two former enemies - Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness. | :03:54. | :03:55. | |
The firebrand unionist and radical republican became so close | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
that they were nicknamed the Chuckle Brothers. | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
There were republicans who continued to threaten that political progress. | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
But when a police officer was killed, the then-deputy first | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
minister stood side-by-side with the chief constable to condemn | :04:15. | :04:16. | |
They are traitors to the island of Ireland. | :04:17. | :04:26. | |
Alongside the words, there were actions on all sides. | :04:27. | :04:28. | |
The Queen's cousin Lord Mountbatten was killed by the IRA. | :04:29. | :04:30. | |
Yet, after the Troubles, royal and republican were able | :04:31. | :04:32. | |
Thank you very much, I am still alive! | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
However, relationships at Stormont always seemed strained | :04:38. | :04:46. | |
after Ian Paisley stepped down as First Minister, to be | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
replaced by Peter Robinson, and then Arlene Foster. | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
Earlier this year, with his ill-health by then obvious, | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
Martin McGuinness walked out of government, amid a row | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
between Sinn Fein and the DUP, the boy from Derry's Bogside | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
retiring as deputy first minister after years in the IRA. | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
I've been over 25 years working and building the peace. | :05:06. | :05:14. | |
The past actions of the IRA will colour many people's views | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
But as a republican who worked towards reconciliation, | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
he will be remembered as a key figure in changing Northern Ireland. | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
Our Ireland correspondent Chris Page is in Belfast. | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
Tell us about some of the reaction, mixed reaction, to the death of | :05:35. | :05:43. | |
Martin McGuinness. Martin McGuinness had a complex and controversial life | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
but also today we have heard plenty about the role he played in the | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
peace process. He more than anybody else embodied the journey of Irish | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
republicans from guns to government and people observed if it was not | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
for Martin McGuinness there may not have been the peace process at all. | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Tony Blair who negotiated the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 that | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
effectively ended the troubles said what made Martin McGuinness a | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
formidable foe made him a formidable peacemaker and those two sides of | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
his life have come into focus and the warmest tributes have been paid | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
by Republicans who have called him a statesman, Peacemaker, a man who | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
worked for reconciliation. Most unionist politicians noted the harm | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
the IRA did and Martin McGuinness' violent past in that organisation. | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
The Ulster Unionist leader said it would be a challenging day for | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
victims. He and other unionists recognise the pit -- pivotal role he | :06:45. | :06:52. | |
played in this era. Arlene Foster has said that in terms | :06:53. | :07:07. | |
of Martin McGuinness's history people will know it is on the record | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
what his history was, his past and the IRA, but acknowledged his | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
significance in negotiations that brought peace to Northern Ireland. I | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
want to give the audience some of the reaction from viewers. A tweet | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
from Keith, let's refrain from giving people the impression Martin | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
McGuinness was a saint. An anonymous viewers said he was responsible for | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
the death of several family members, three of which were innocent of | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
crimes in the troubles. Obviously a divisive figure. Absolutely he was. | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
They IRA was the most deadly paramilitary group in the troubles | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
and responsible for hundreds of deaths and when he became known it | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
was as a terrorist godfather, that was the way many would describe him | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
and he had the reputation infamous as a hard man in the Aaron Rai and | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
held a senior figure in the republican movement throughout the | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
violence in a bitter conflict that cost 3500 lives of many thought it | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
might never end but eventually it did. There are many who cannot | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
forgive Martin McGuinness and some unionists who could not reconcile | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
themselves to the fact he ended up in government running Northern | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
Ireland alongside unionists, but the latter phase of his life, the focus | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
has been on his role as a politician, as opposed to the | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
paramilitary role. Alan McBride, whose wife was killed in the | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
Shankill Road bombing in 93 said today Martin McGuinness's fingers | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
were all over the troubles but also all over the peace process. More | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
reaction to come to the death of Martin McGuinness and we will talk | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
to Colin Parry, whose son was killed in Warrington by an IRA | :08:52. | :08:53. | |
Joanna is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
A man has been charged with the murder of a one year | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
Bidhya Sagar Das, who's 33, is also charged with attempting | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
to murder the boy's twin sister, who remains in a critical | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
Both children were discovered with serious injuries | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
at a flat near Finsbury Park on Saturday night. | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
The US is banning electronic devices from cabin baggage on flights | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
from eight mainly Middle Eastern and North African countries. | :09:20. | :09:21. | |
It will reportedly include all large electronic | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
devices such as laptops, tablets cameras, DVD | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
players and electronic games, but not phones. | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
The measure will affect nine airlines, flying | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
Thousands of young children in England are having their baby | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
teeth removed each year because of tooth decay. | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
and show just over 84,000 tooth extractions were carried out | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
The Department of Health say they're introducing a soft drinks levy, | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
to encourage companies to reduce sugar in their products. | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
A father has told this programme his life was ruined | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
when police wrongly accused him of being a paedophile - | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
after a typing error sent officers to the wrong address. | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
Nigel Lang, from Sheffield, was arrested on suspicion | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
of possessing indecent images of children. | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
He was subsequently suspended from work and wasn't | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
He was eventually cleared when it was discovered that police | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
had mistakenly added an extra digit to an IP address linked | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
Hertfordshire Constabulary admitted the error and apologised to Mr Lang, | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
And you can hear Nigel Lang's interview with Victoria | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later, | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time". | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30am. | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
More reaction to the death of Martin McGuinness in a moment and we will | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
begin the sport first. It is the international break in football and | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
Jamie Vardy has created headlines. Down at St James' Park with England | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
and they fly Dortmund, playing Germany in a friendly. Almost a year | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
ago he scored against Germany in the build-up to the Euros and was firing | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
Leicester to be improbable title and he could do no wrong but a month | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
ago, things soured. Leicester have had a terrible season and sacked | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
Claudio Ranieri and there was speculation Jamie Vardy was behind | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
some kind of players' revolt. He said he he had nothing to do with it | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
and things went wrong. The current manager has turned things around, | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
but he has been talking about receiving death threats either to | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
himself, via social media, just walking down the street as well he | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
says, the weekly basis, and he talked about his wife being while | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
she was in the car with children. People trying to cut her up. Just a | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
glimpse of what he has been going through. He said he has not involved | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
the police and it is part and parcel with what being a Premier League | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
footballer is and he knows some people will never like him, but it | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
has been an unpleasant couple of weeks for Jamie Vardy, denying the | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
fact he was behind Claudio Ranieri's sacking in some way that saying he | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
has been getting flak, including the serious nature of death threats but | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
social media, we know all about that. You have done so much about | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
that, Victoria, it is easy for people to do things like that, isn't | :12:46. | :12:47. | |
it? The other home nations, what about | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
them? It will be a busy few weeks. We have a couple of days waiting to | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
the matches. Scotland have a friendly in Edinburgh against | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
Canada. They could be rattling around Easton Road, they have only | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
sold 5000 tickets. Gordon Strachan has tried to sell tickets by saying | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
they will put on a show and why not turn up to see what they can do | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
against Canada. But Canada are pretty poor and Scotland should win. | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
It should be a good match in Dublin on Friday night, a World Cup | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
qualifier. Wales with Gareth Bale play the Republic of Ireland. A | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
Northern Ireland facing Norway in another qualifier. And England back | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
at Wembley, facing Lithuania. It will be busy on the football front. | :13:34. | :13:42. | |
Next, reaction to the death of Martin McGuinness. | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
Northern Ireland's former deputy first minister who's died aged 66. | :13:45. | :13:46. | |
He's known to have been ill for some time with a rare heart condition. | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
To many he was seen as a peacemaker, others could never forgive him | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
for his role as a key figure in the IRA. | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
He grew up in Derry's Bogside, radicalised by what he saw | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
as discrimination and murder on the streets of his city. | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
We believe that the only way that Irish people can bring about the | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
freedom of their country is through the use of armed struggle. | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
I wish it could be done in another way. | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
If someone could tell me a peaceful way | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
to do it, then I would gladly support that. | :14:18. | :14:19. | |
He had a leading role in the IRA during the time | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
the paramilitary organisation was bombing his home city. | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
This is him addressing a rally in Tyrone, which had one of the most | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
active republican paramilitary groups, at the height | :14:33. | :14:34. | |
Republican people of Tyrone, the people are with you today to pay | :14:35. | :14:49. | |
tribute to the volunteers of the Irish republican army from this | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
historic county who gave their lives sad every generation for freedom and | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
justice in Ireland. In doing so we are in union with Republicans in | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
every part of Ireland in honouring the memory of our friends, the | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
freedom fighters of the IRA who have selflessly given everything in our | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
continuing struggle against occupation. | :15:15. | :15:24. | |
The Good Friday Agreement led to this handshake with the Queen and a | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
toast at Windsor Castle. Many people in this hall today | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
played an important part in our peace process and many | :15:31. | :15:32. | |
others, unfortunately, And I want to send to | :15:33. | :15:34. | |
them our warmest thanks. We will continue to rely on that | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
support as we strive towards a society moving | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
from division and disharmony to one which celebrates our diversity | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
and is determined to provide a better future for | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
all of our people. One which cherishes the elderly, | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
the vulnerable, the young and all of our children equally, | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
which welcomes warmly those from other lands and cultures | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
who wish to join us and forge A society which remembers those | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
who have lost their lives. By 2007, he was Northern Ireland's | :16:10. | :16:21. | |
Deputy First Minister standing alongside First Minister Ian | :16:22. | :16:23. | |
Paisley. Mart marlt resigned at the beginning | :16:24. | :16:44. | |
of the year against the Democratic Party's handling of an energy | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
scandal that triggered a snap election. | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
During his last press conference, Mr McGuinness | :16:52. | :16:52. | |
He died in his home city of Derry this morning with his family by his | :16:53. | :17:02. | |
side. The former British Prime | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
Minister Tony Blair, who worked with Mr McGuiness closely | :17:06. | :17:07. | |
during the Northern Ireland peace process, told Radio 4's Today | :17:08. | :17:09. | |
programme this morning he had immense gratitude for the part | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
he played in the peace process. For people like myself talking about | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
Martin's contribution to peace, there will be people who remember | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
the early days, those who lost loved ones in the troubles and they will | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
find it very hard to forgive and impossible to forget. So, you know, | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
we should always be aware of that in a strange way though, the steel that | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
he showed back then in the pursuit of arms struggle was also the | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
steel... A degree of dedication and commitment that was very ruthless, | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
but that same determination was then brought forward in the peace | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
process. So the character of Martin McGuinness in one sense did not | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
change. That steel was always there, but once he decided to deploy it, in | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
pursuit of peace, he did so with a lot of courage and a lot of | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
leadership and I remember we had a the first really proper meeting we | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
had was in Downing Street in the Cabinet Room and I remember Martin | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
coming in with Gerry Adams and they sat down very heavily at the Cabinet | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
table and Martin looked around and said with rather heavy irony, "So | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
this was where the damage was done?" Meaning the partition agreement in | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
the days of Lloyd George to which Jonathan Powell my Chief-of-Staff | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
replied with a smile, "By damage I thought you meant when you guys | :18:33. | :18:41. | |
lobbed the mortar through the windows of Downing Street in John | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
Major's time." Martin was the one who wanted to explain why consistent | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
with the principles of republicanism now was the right moment for peace. | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
So this for him was not a, it wasn't an act of stepping back from what he | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
believed, it was genuinely that he had come to see this, the troubles | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
and the arms struggle as something that was just causing misery for his | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
people as well as the rest of the people in Northern Ireland and | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
mainland Britain and he therefore, once he had come to his view that | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
peace was the right way forward, he pursued it with a lot of skill and | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
with a lot of courage and without him being - because he had the | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
credibility within the republican movement - without him being fully | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
on side with this process, it would never have happened. | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
We can speak now to the Conservative MP Theresa Villiers, | :19:40. | :19:41. | |
who was Northern Ireland Secretary from September 2012 until July last | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
year and to Lord Tebbit who was in the Brighton hotel | :19:45. | :19:46. | |
when it was bombed by the IRA in 1984 - | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
the attack killed five people and left Lord Tebbit's | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
What are your thoughts on the deft Martin McGuinness? The world is a | :19:55. | :20:05. | |
sweeter and cleaner place. How would you describe him? A coward. A | :20:06. | :20:16. | |
murderer. What else? Do you accept his significant role in the peace | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
process? Yes, he had a significant role because of his cowardice. He | :20:22. | :20:30. | |
knew the IRA had been penetrated to its highest levels by British | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
intelligence and that before long he would have been arrested and charged | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
with some of the many murders which he personally committed and so he | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
opted for the coward's way out and said, "I am a man of peace." Do you | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
think the peace process could have come about without the role he | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
played? Without his contribution? Yes, after he had been killed. What | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
do you mean zm Well, he might well have been killed by British forces | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
in one of his acts of terrorism or, of course, he might have been | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
arrested. He knew that he was shortly to be arrested and charged | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
with murder and so, it would have put him out of the running in the | :21:18. | :21:36. | |
peace process. A woman person who was murdered, it was his view and my | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
view that the first requirement for lasting peace and justice was that | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
the IRA should be defeated. So you believe Martin McGuinness saw the | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
peace process as... As a way of escaping justice. Right. When you | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
hear the tributes from your Prime Minister, Theresa May, from former | :21:58. | :21:59. | |
Prime Minister, Tony Blair, what do you think then? Well, when I hear | :22:00. | :22:08. | |
Tony Blair talking about McGuinness as Martin, I must say, it's | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
difficult not to be ill, but of course, we know Blair of old and you | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
know, he was the hero of Iraq and many other acts of policy and I | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
repeat again that we would have got a more soundly based peace with less | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
deaths if a politician had been alive to carry out his policy. | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
Theresa May is forgiving McGuinness and somebody mentioned that. He | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
can't be forgiven because forgiveness requires confession of | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
sins and repentance. He never confessed his since. He never | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
repented. Theresa May said Martin McGuinness made, "An essential and | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
historic contribution to Northern Ireland's peace process playing a | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
defining role in leading the republican movement away from | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
violence." He certainly did play a role, but it was a role which was | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
played out of cowardice and nothing else. Can I ask how your wife is? | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
That's not particularly relevant, but she has been crippled and in | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
pain for the last 30 odd years. Indeed, I have suffered pain every | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
day for the last 30 odd years, but my thoughts are far more with many | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
others in Northern Ireland particularly the families of the | :23:36. | :23:45. | |
disappeared and as many of us know, the disappeared disappeared after | :23:46. | :23:47. | |
they were murdered in order to conceal the manner in which they had | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
died. There will be some people watching our programme this morning | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
who are too young to remember what happened on 12th October 1984 and | :23:56. | :24:03. | |
that an iment RA bomb ripped apart that Brighton hotel during the | :24:04. | :24:05. | |
Conservative Party Conference, the target was the Prime Minister, | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
Margaret Thatcher. Five people were killed. As you've explained Lord | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
Tebbit, your wife, was badly injured, and has experienced pain | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
since as have you. What do you think about that act when you reflect on | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
it? Well, it is just a plain straightforward act of murder and | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
the poor little creature who actually put the bomb in the hotel, | :24:32. | :24:42. | |
he was, nowhere have we ever had a confession from those who planned | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
and organised it, who paid for it, who produced the bomb and gave it to | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
him to put in the bathroom. Not a word of contrition from them. I'm | :24:53. | :25:00. | |
going to bring in Teresa Villiers, former Northern Ireland Secretary, | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
you've heard what Lord Tebbit said. What are your thoughts on the death | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
of Martin McGuinness? I think it is right that we do reflect on the many | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
people who suffered very directly and very seriously at the hands of | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
the IRA of which Martin McGuinness was a leading member for very many | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
years. I think it's certainly true that he did play an important role | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
in delivering peace in Northern Ireland, but he will still | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
undoubtedly responsible for great suffering as well in the past. You | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
heard Lord Tebbit saying he using the peace process as an opportunity | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
to evade justice? I'm sure, the police and prosecuting authorities | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
in Northern Ireland pursue anyone against which there is evidence so | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
I'm not sure I would see the processes involving that if there | :25:54. | :25:55. | |
was evidence against Martin McGuinness I'm sure the police would | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
have pursued it. I believe one thing that Martin McGuinness was always | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
very clear about was he did not want to see a return to the brutality and | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
the atrocities of the past. So, there is no doubt that his attitude | :26:11. | :26:18. | |
did change over time, but that, I think, doesn't mean that he's freufb | :26:19. | :26:26. | |
for he's forgiven for the acts he was involved in. Sorry, Lord Tebbit, | :26:27. | :26:33. | |
you wanted to come in. He knew the file that some of the murders he had | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
committed had gone to the office of the prosecutor. That was why he, | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
being a coward, opted for peace. There will be more tributes from all | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
sorts of people, the reaction is coming in. Mixed reaction from | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
politicians, from people who lost loved ones as a result of IRA | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
bombings. From the Prime Minister, you've already mentioned, from the | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
former Prime Minister, Tony Blair. Do you think, Theresa Villiers there | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
could have been a peace process without Martin McGuinness and the | :27:09. | :27:10. | |
role he played? I think there could have been, but there is no doubt he | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
did play an important part in the peace process and during the years I | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
was Secretary of State, when, you know, that in a sense that process | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
continued with attempts to reconcile parties, ensure they could work | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
together, he was, I have to say, constructive and pragmatic and | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
clearly, wanted to make the settlement out of the Good Friday | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
Agreement work and so we need to give him credit for that. Lord | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
Tebbit, you saw the relationship he established with his one time bitter | :27:44. | :27:51. | |
political rival, Ian Paisley of the Democratic Party, how did you view | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
that? Well, I wouldn't want to be responsible for choosing the friends | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
of either of them. Go on. Why do you say that? I don't have a high regard | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
for either of them. Right, OK. Do you accept that the political, the | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
economic and the social well-being of Northern Ireland has been | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
transformed since 1998? Yes, of course, it has. I'm not denying | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
that. What I'm significant it arose because of the cowardice because of | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
the terrorist, McGuinness. Thank you very much for your time this | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
morning. OK, thank you. Lord Tebbit, talking, giving us his thoughts on | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
Martin McGuinness. Talking about the bomb back in 1948, 12th October | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
1984, the IRA bomb ripping through a Brighton hotel where the | :28:44. | :28:45. | |
Conservative Party was gathered for their conference. The target was the | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher. She survived. Five other people were | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
killed. Lord Tebbit was injured. He was the trade secretary at the time | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
and his wife were injured. They were in bed when that bomb exploded and | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
you heard him say, he was repeatedly asked if he would be able to forgive | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
the IRA for what happened and the answer is clearly no. Thank you very | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
much for your time as well. Thank you, Teresa Villiers, former | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
Northern Ireland Secretary. We will talk to the father falsely | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
accused of being a paedophile because of a typo by the police. If | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
you're a decent person and you don't know how it happened and I found | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
that really frightening for me. And frightening for my family. | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
Should Scotland have that second referendum on independence and if so | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
when? The Scottish Parliament will debate it today. There will be a | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
vote. We will speak to those on both sides of the argument. | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness, Northern Ireland's former | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
deputy first minister, has died aged 66. | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
It's understood he had been suffering from | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
The former IRA leader turned peacemaker worked at the heart | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
of the power-sharing government following the 1998 | :30:08. | :30:09. | |
He became deputy first minister in 2007, standing alongside | :30:10. | :30:15. | |
Democratic Unionist Party leaders Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
But he stood down from his post in January in protest | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
against the DUP's handling of an energy scandal, in a move that | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
Tony Blair, who was Prime Minister when the Good Friday Agreement | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
was signed in 1998, has been speaking to the BBC this morning. | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
He was asked how it felt to be sitting across a table | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
and negotiating with a man who, for many British people, | :30:42. | :30:43. | |
That was the attitude of many people and, in a way, you only make peace | :30:44. | :30:56. | |
with your enemies, so the people engaged in war were those engaged in | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
peace. I think the quality of strength and determination that made | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
him such a formidable foe during the armed struggle was also what made | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
him such a formidable peacemaker later. | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
Lord Tebbit was in the Brighton hotel when it was bombed | :31:15. | :31:16. | |
by the IRA in 1984 - the attack killed 5 people and left | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
He told this programme what he thought of Martin McGuinness' role | :31:21. | :31:29. | |
in the peace process. He had a significant role because of his | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
cowardice. He knew the IRA had been penetrated to its highest levels by | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
British intelligence and that before long he would have been arrested and | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
charged with some of the many murders which he personally | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
committed, and so he opted for Luke Howard's way out and said, I am a | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
man of peace. We will have -- he opted for the cow would's way out. | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
A man has been charged with the murder of a one year | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
Bidhya Sagar Das, who's 33, is also charged with attempting | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
to murder the boy's twin sister, who remains in a critical | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
Both children were discovered with serious injuries | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
at a flat near Finsbury Park on Saturday night. | :32:16. | :32:17. | |
A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later, | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time". | :32:30. | :32:37. | |
More news at ten. Inflation has gone up a bit. The rate of the consumer | :32:38. | :32:48. | |
Price index inflation has risen to 2.3%, up from 1.8% in January, that | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
is from the Office for National Statistics. Consumer inflation has | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
gone up to 2.3%. The sport now. The headlines. Jamie | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
Vardy says he has received death threats from fans who have held him | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
responsible for the sacking of manager Claudio Ranieri. He said | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
life has been terrifying and his family has been targeted after | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
reports he was a player who influenced the decision to let | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
Claudio Ranieri go. Bastian Schweinsteiger from Manchester | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
United will join Chicago Fire with immediate effect. The German has | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
only made four first-team appearances this season. The | :33:34. | :33:41. | |
Canadian team Toronto Wolfpack will play Super League side Salford Red | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
Devils in the challenge cup will stop Toronto, who have dispensation | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
to play in England's third tier have been to London Broncos in the last | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
round and that draw is on the BBC Sport website. Valtteri Bottas says | :33:55. | :34:02. | |
he has no intention of being number two to Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes. | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
He replaced Nico Rosberg, who retired after winning the World | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
Championship. I will be back after ten and we will look at competitive | :34:12. | :34:12. | |
computer gaming. Let's get more now on the news | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
that the former IRA commander, Martin McGuinness, who turned his | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
back on violence to help bring peace to Northern Ireland and become | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
the Deputy First Minister, has died. He was 66 and had | :34:22. | :34:23. | |
a rare heart condition. Prime Minister Theresa May said | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
she could "never condone" the path he'd taken in the earlier part | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
of his life, but added that Martin McGuinness had played | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
a defining role in leading the republican movement | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
away from violence. We can speak to Colin Parry, whose | :34:36. | :34:50. | |
son was killed by an eye a -- by an IRA bomb in Warrington. And also to | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
Dennis Murray, the BBC Ireland correspondent for 20 years. Colin | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
Parry, how do you reflect on the death of Martin McGuinness? | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
I am not altogether surprised he has gone because when I spoke to him not | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
many weeks ago his voice was extremely weak and I saw him on | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
television and he looked very frail. He looked to me like he did not have | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
longer and so it is not a great surprise he has died. If you ask for | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
my opinions about Martin, I got along very well with him will stop | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
although that seems to be anathema to some people, the fact is that in | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
the wake of my son's killing, a couple of years on, my wife and I | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
set up an important charity that works for peace and we have made a | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
major contribution to peace building. I could hardly be | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
consistent with my work if I were to take a black and white view on who I | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
will and will not speak to and Martin and I got on well in recent | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
years. Yet he could have ordered the murder of your son. He could. When I | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
asked him the question why the IRA bombed Warrington, he said he did | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
not know. The chances are he did know but there is little point in | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
pressing the point. He was deeply apologetic for it, not that those | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
apologies mattered in real terms, but the fact he suggested he did not | :36:22. | :36:28. | |
know was interesting to me. Whether the cells had an autonomous life, I | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
do not know. I do not know if the Army Council of the IRA control | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
things as much as we thought they did. Did you believe him when he | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
said he did not know? I neither believed him nor did not believe | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
him. Probably I didn't believe him, on the balance of probabilities. We | :36:49. | :36:56. | |
have just spoken to Lord Tebbit, and he raised the subject of | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
forgiveness. Have you forgiven Martin McGuinness for his role in | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
the RA? No, I haven't forgiven Martin McGuinness and I haven't | :37:07. | :37:15. | |
forgiven the IRA and never will. I am not full of anger and seeking | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
justice. I will not ever get justice. I have closed off the past | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
as best I can so we can concentrate on the future and affect things we | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
can affect. I will not ever forgive the IRA for taking Tim's life, but I | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
cannot allow that to make my other children's life awful. What we have | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
done by setting up the foundation, is make a major step, two parents | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
getting involved in peace building and without overplaying it we are an | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
important organisation in British peace building. How have you managed | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
that anger? The anger was never there. Believe it or not, I was | :38:01. | :38:09. | |
never angry. I was full of emptiness, loss, isolation, and any | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
other emotion out there. Anger was not something I ever felt, | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
thankfully. That is still the case today and I can speak for my wife, | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
she was not angry, we were just completely bereft and bewildered by | :38:24. | :38:25. | |
what happened. I will bring in Dennis Murray, if I may. The BBC | :38:26. | :38:34. | |
Ireland correspondent for so many years, a recognisable face. Good | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
morning. It is clear, listening to what people say about Martin | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
McGuinness what a truly divisive figure he continues to be even in | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
death. Divisive does not do justice to it. It has been summed up well by | :38:49. | :38:56. | |
Colin because you had this kind of two very different roles that Martin | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
McGuinness played and it is reasonably difficult to reconcile | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
the two. Nobody I think is in any doubt Martin McGuinness was a senior | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
IRA commander and always said that he left the IRA in the 70s, but I am | :39:14. | :39:24. | |
not sure how many believed him will. He denied it again he was chief of | :39:25. | :39:32. | |
staff of the IRA stop you have this transformation. It was gradual, not | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
abrupt. Over the years he became a peacemaker. One or two civil | :39:37. | :39:43. | |
servants I know, senior civil servants, who were people you might | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
have thought would not warm to Martin McGuinness, they would not | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
have agreed with him politically but they described him as authentic, | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
genuine and one said, after it a few years of devolution being restored | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
after 2007, he was one of the few statesman left. He certainly | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
travelled a road. For him to condemn dissident republicans as he did | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
after the murders of soldiers and a policeman here, he said they were | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
traitors to the people of Ireland which is astonishing for a | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
Republican leader to say and against the grain of the republican | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
tradition. For him to meet the Queen. Would there have been a peace | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
process without him? Probably, but the republican movement would not | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
have travelled as far or fast as they did without him. Gerry Adams | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
represented the political side of republicanism and Martin McGuinness | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
represented what they called physical force. He used to say | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
nobody misunderstands what I stand for. He had such a fearsome | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
reputation he was able to carry the hardliners, 90% plus of the | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
hardliners in the IRA to come not just to a peace and political deal | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
but to disband and decommission weaponry. Why was he able to | :41:10. | :41:16. | |
persuade the IRA rank and file to accept that peace process and go | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
into political power-sharing? Because there was no hard man. I | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
said it to Colin before when Martin McGuinness was invited, | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
courageously, to the peace centre in Warrington, what you see before you | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
is not the shadow of a gunmen, what you are seeing is a gunmen will stop | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
there were protests outside the building. I am not sure he won many | :41:42. | :41:49. | |
hearts and minds but it was courageous of Colin to ask him and | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
courageous of Martin to go because the English public are less | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
forgiving than Northern Ireland people have been. When Gerry Adams | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
stood for the first time for election in the Irish Republic I | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
thought the people in the constituency would dislike him for | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
being a opportunist for blowing in but they disliked him for being an | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
IRA man and a Provo. There is the residual thing in the Republic and | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
in Britain. In Northern Ireland, whether people hate him or not, have | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
forgiven him or not, they were prepared to tolerate him in | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
government on the basis he was leading the most violent, murderous | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
group in Northern Ireland away from that to exclusive involvement in | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
politics and I think that will be the legacy rather more than the | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
militant side of it but without the militant side he would not have been | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
able to lead the hard men of republicanism out because there was | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
no Hardyman the Martin McGuinness. Thanks, gentlemen. | :43:00. | :43:07. | |
More reaction to the death of Martin McGuinness throughout the programme. | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
This morning, in his first broadcast interview a father tells us his life | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
was ruined after police officers wrongly accused him | :43:15. | :43:16. | |
of being a paedophile - after a typo sent cops | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
44 year old Nigel Lang, from Sheffield, was arrested | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
on suspicion of possessing indecent images of children - | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
his computer was seized, he wasn't allowed to see his son | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
and he was suspended from work before being cleared. | :43:34. | :43:36. | |
Mr Lang spent years trying to work out why he'd been arrested - | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
and eventually discovered police had accidentally added an extra digit | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
to an IP address lined with indecent images of children. | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
That mistake sent police to his address, triggering | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
what he calls the most horrendous and horrific time of his life. | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
It's impacted on my life in a lot of significant ways. | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
It's impacted on my family, especially my older children, | :44:06. | :44:14. | |
If I didn't have their unwavering support, I don't think | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
It has impacted on my mother, who was 78 at the time, | :44:20. | :44:27. | |
and she was constantly worried for me. | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
It's also impacted on my work and in my personal | :44:34. | :44:35. | |
So it's impacted on me in a lot of ways. | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
I was fearful that people would attack my children, | :44:43. | :44:54. | |
would attack my house, would attack my family, | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
because we hear about vigilante groups all the time when somebody's | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
In terms of work, it impacted there, because I work | :45:03. | :45:10. | |
Had to tell my employers and I was really embarrassed and that really | :45:11. | :45:32. | |
hurt me. But I think the most | :45:33. | :45:49. | |
hurtful thing was, I had to tell my employers about this, | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
so I was really embarrassed And that's because of the nature | :45:53. | :45:54. | |
of what you were accused of? I think it's important that people | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
realise that when something like this happens to you, | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
you don't know where to turn, you don't know who to turn to and, | :46:04. | :46:05. | |
most importantly, you don't know If you're a decent person | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
who lives a decent life, And I found that really | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
frightening for me and I had a lot of fears for my future, | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
because the fact that the police had put a statement on my record that | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
said I was in possession... That has a significant impact, | :46:21. | :46:22. | |
because it meant that I couldn't work, couldn't move | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
from the employer that I was with. So in effect, with the police doing | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
that, putting something like that on my record, | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
without any evidence, basically ruined my reputation | :46:34. | :46:35. | |
and I feel that it's I don't ever feel that I'd be able | :46:36. | :46:46. | |
to work within that field again. In terms of my family, | :46:47. | :46:58. | |
it had a significant impact on my youngest son because, | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
for three weeks, I couldn't go to my house, I wasn't allowed | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
to be anywhere near him I remember him saying to his mum, | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
"Can Daddy not come That was heart-wrenching. | :47:08. | :47:20. | |
That was heartbreaking. And part of the reason that I've | :47:21. | :47:32. | |
come on here today is to let the British public know that I'm | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
an innocent person and to let professionals in my city know that | :47:38. | :47:48. | |
I'm an innocent person and I just needed people to know | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
that, because I didn't So if you don't have your day | :47:52. | :47:53. | |
in court, nobody knows So I feel that I had to come | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
on your show to tell the British public that I'm an innocent person | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
of this crime. It was a police mistake and I think | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
it's horrendous that when no evidence is found of you committing | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
a crime that they can just put on your record, "Well, | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
he was in possession of indecent images of children but no | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
further action was taken." I find it incredible | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
that they can do that. I feel that if the police | :48:26. | :48:33. | |
are going to raid somebody's house and say that they're a paedophile, | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
they need to be sure, they need to be 100% sure, | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
because this damages your reputation, it destroys | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
careers, it puts pressures On your relationships, | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
especially your personal relationship, with my partner, | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
and my older children, You don't realise what impact it's | :48:58. | :48:59. | |
had on them because you're the one who is fighting, | :49:00. | :49:08. | |
you're the one who is fighting the fight to clear your name, | :49:09. | :49:15. | |
and I was just obsessed. I felt compelled to clear my name | :49:16. | :49:17. | |
because this was far reaching. It must have consumed your | :49:18. | :49:25. | |
every waking moment. Definitely. | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
I couldn't stop thinking about it. Every day, I was chatting to people | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
about it and because of It actually took three weeks, | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
I think, for them to realise that there was nothing | :49:38. | :49:46. | |
on your computer, there were zero But actually, it's taken years | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
for you to find out why you were ever arrested in the first | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
place, why your computer was seized in the first place, | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
why you weren't allowed to see your young | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
son for three weeks. Yeah, I think that's | :50:01. | :50:02. | |
been the hardest thing. It's the waiting for things | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
to happen that takes It's that that, if you like, | :50:07. | :50:13. | |
plays on your mind and eventually grinds you down to the point | :50:14. | :50:22. | |
where you don't feel you can even work no more, | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
which is what happened to me. The point when I had | :50:27. | :50:33. | |
to leave work... I was working with a vulnerable | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
person, a vulnerable young girl, and I felt that she was behaving | :50:38. | :50:39. | |
inappropriately towards me. Normally, I would have been able | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
to handle that but because now I had paedophilia on my record, | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
I started to panic. I just wondered, if she was to | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
accuse me of anything, then the police would believe her | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
because of what... Here's the letter from | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
Hertfordshire Police, which says sorry to you and acknowledges | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
their catastrophic error. "Dear Mr Lang, I would firstly | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
like to apologise on behalf Hertfordshire Constabulary have made | :51:21. | :51:22. | |
a mistake and you should never have been arrested on suspicion | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
of sharing indecent I have now established | :51:29. | :51:30. | |
that there is a typing error This extra digit completely changed | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
the result of the request As you are aware, this unfortunately | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
identified you as being the person When I received that letter, | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
in certain ways I was happy, just that they'd recognised | :51:52. | :52:06. | |
the mistake, but then I got really angry | :52:07. | :52:08. | |
about the situation. I went into emotional turmoil, | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
so one minute I'm happy, next minute I'm crying, | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
next minute, the other So it's just a terrible situation | :52:20. | :52:21. | |
you find yourself in. I thought I would have been able | :52:22. | :52:32. | |
to move on when I got that letter Because of the nature of the arrest | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
and what they were accusing me of, I just haven't been able | :52:37. | :52:45. | |
to get over it. I can't work in that field again | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
because I've got too much problems. I've been reduced to benefits | :52:50. | :52:59. | |
because of this, which really hurts. I don't feel I can provide | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
for my family and I don't know how my mortgage is going to be paid, | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
all because of a police typing error, and I think that one | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
of the most hurtful things was all the time I was telling | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
them I was innocent, "I'm innocent of this crime," even | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
when I went to put my complaint in, I said I was innocent of this crime, | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
and the police felt that I had They hadn't found no | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
evidence on my computer, they had messed up my record | :53:29. | :53:36. | |
and you're telling me I've got I felt they were trying | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
to blame me for taking too long They said that if I'd have come | :53:41. | :53:48. | |
earlier, they would have been able to sort it out but because I'd left | :53:49. | :53:55. | |
it so long, they couldn't do nothing, and then | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
when you find out that, with the hard work | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
that I'd put in and... with the hard work that I'd | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
put in and, you know, going to a solicitor, | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
paying money... If my partner didn't have | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
that money, I don't know what I would have done, | :54:15. | :54:21. | |
but you pay that money and then they find out | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
that the police had made a mistake. And my argument was, | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
why couldn't they do that? Why couldn't they | :54:29. | :54:36. | |
investigate and find that? I recognise that the police | :54:37. | :54:37. | |
have a hard job to do and I do recognise that they have to catch | :54:38. | :54:46. | |
paedophiles, however I just think that, you know, | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
when somebody comes to them or they arrest somebody | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
and that person is denying ever doing that crime, | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
then I feel that the police should I mean, I was screaming out | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
that I hadn't done this They seemed more interested | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
in getting a result, and that really hurt me, | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
the fact that I'm screaming out innocence and you're saying that, | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
basically, without saying it, And they knew the impact | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
it was going to have on me straightaway, because I said | :55:24. | :55:33. | |
to the officer, the officer who I went to see about my | :55:34. | :55:35. | |
complaint, I said to him, "Well, if you are going to put this | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
on my record, then I will not be able to get another job | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
within my field. It's astonishing that you even | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
had to point that out, That is the, kind of, | :55:47. | :55:57. | |
Kafkaesque situation. Well, I don't know where the law | :55:58. | :56:06. | |
stands when there is no That's where the law stands. | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
You have received compensation. It's not going to be a consolation | :56:10. | :56:18. | |
for what you experienced. I think it's derisory. | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
I think it's an insult. I think that when you destroy | :56:25. | :56:31. | |
somebody's career, as this has done, I don't think ?60,000 comes anywhere | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
close to the suffering that I've endured and that | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
my family's endured. I think that people need to look | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
at that aspect again, because if somebody's career | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
is ruined, how are they going They should get money | :56:52. | :56:53. | |
to retrain for their career. I couldn't go back to | :56:54. | :57:02. | |
university again to retrain - I couldn't afford it - | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
so, to me, I think that I've just got some bad feeling, | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
a bitter taste, about the police in regard to what | :57:12. | :57:18. | |
happened to my life. And, like I said, the reason why | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
I went public is because I need everybody to know that when these | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
mistakes happen to ordinary people, they have a devastating impact, | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
and that's why I'm here today, Thank you very much | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
for talking to us. We appreciate your time. | :57:34. | :57:41. | |
Thank you. Nigel Lang first told his story | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
to Buzzfeed news and today spoke to us in his first | :57:45. | :57:52. | |
broadcast interview. You can read more about his story on | :57:53. | :58:00. | |
the BBC News website. Neil says, "What a shocking error." Another | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
viewer says, "My soul goes out to this brave man." Another viewer | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
says, "Poor man. The police have ruined his life. Blown it apart and | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
left him to pick up the pieces. It is terrifying." | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
Let's get the latest weather update with Carol. | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
Good morning. Today, we are looking at a right old mixture of sunshine | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
and wintry showers. We have seen that combination already. Some | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
pictures to show you. This one from Barnsley. Blue skies. It wasn't like | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
that everywhere this morning earlier. This picture from | :58:37. | :58:44. | |
Lanarkshire. The snow has been falling through | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
the early part of today across Scotland and Northern Ireland in | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
particular. But we've also seen some across Northern England, Wales and | :58:53. | :58:54. | |
south-west England, but for many of us, we are off to a dry start with a | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
fair bit of sunshine around. Through the day too, what you'll find is the | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
wintry element of the showers, the snow, will retreat into the hills. | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
At lower levels you could see a little bit of hail, sleet and rain. | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
Maybe even the odd rumble of thunder, but they will blow through | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
quickly on the wind and there will be a lot of sunshine, but later in | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
the south-west, what you will find is, we will see a new system coming | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
in. That will introduce thicker cloud and some rain, a wintriness | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
over the moors and tors and maybe wintriness over the higher ground in | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
Wales, but a lot of dry weather too. Northern Ireland, for you, you're | :59:29. | :59:31. | |
looking at a mixture of sunshine and showers. In Scotland, again, | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
sunshine and a few showers, being blown along on the wind and if | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
you're in the wind it will feel cool, but there will be quite a bit | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
of sunshine around in the east. Showers crossing the Pennines, but | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
for much of the country, Essex and Kent, and down to the Isle of Wight, | :59:51. | :59:53. | |
it is a dry story, but a nippy one with the odd shower here and there. | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
As we head on through the evening and overnight, this area of rain and | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
windy weather continues to drift northwards. It will deposit snow on | :00:01. | :00:03. | |
the higher routes oi cross Wales. There will be the risk of ice as | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
well. Maybe a touch of frost. But as it engages with the cold air already | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
ensconced across Northern England, you will find it will turn to snow | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
even possibly at lower levels and that may affect your journey into | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
work in the morning. Ahead of it, clear skies, cold. Cold especially | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
in the glens of Scotland, probably minus eight to minus ten Celsius. In | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
the South East we're looking at fours and fivesment tomorrow, we | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
start off with the snow across northern England, but like today, it | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
will retreat into the hills and at lower levels it will be of mostly. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
In Northern Ireland, cold with a north easterly wind, but drier and | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
brighter and brighter conditions in the south. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
Hello. It's Tuesday. | :00:50. | :00:50. | |
Paramilitary turned peacemaker - we have more reflections | :00:51. | :00:59. | |
on Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness who has died aged 66 | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
I have been over 25 years working and building the peace. | :01:03. | :01:16. | |
He was a controversial figure. This is what the father of a child who | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
guided an IRA attack those of him. When I asked in the question of why | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
the IRA bombed Warrington he said he didn't know. The chances are he did | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
know. He said he did not know and he was deeply apologetic for it, not | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
that his apologies mattered in real terms, but the fact he suggested he | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
did not know was interesting to me. We will bring you more reaction to | :01:42. | :01:42. | |
that story. And how a police typo ruined this | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
man's life after he was falsely I was fearful of the people | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
would attack my children, would attack my house, | :01:49. | :01:56. | |
would attack my family because we hear about vigilante | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
groups all the time when somebody You can watch the full | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
interview back by going Joanna is in the BBC | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
Newsroom with a summary The former deputy first minister | :02:08. | :02:23. | |
of Northern Ireland, Martin McGuinness, has died | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
at the age of 66. He'd been suffering | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
from a rare heart condition. President of Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams, | :02:29. | :02:30. | |
described him as a "passionate Republican who worked tirelessly | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
for peace and reconciliation." Theresa May has said that the fomer | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
IRA commander made an "essential and historic contribution" | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
to the peace process in Northern Ireland - | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
but she said she could "never To paint a true picture | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
of Martin McGuinness, He was a paramilitary | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
who once embraced violence, but also a peacemaker who reached | :02:53. | :03:02. | |
out to rivals, a man who could be Born in Londonderry, | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
into a large Catholic family, Martin McGuinness came of age | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
as Northern Ireland's In that time of violence, | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
he joined the IRA, quickly Can you say whether the bombing is | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
likely to stop in the near future, Well, I always take | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
into consideration the feelings The 1970s saw him become one | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
of the faces of ruthless Irish republicanism, | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
and he was jailed for terrorist McGuinness has changed considerably | :03:40. | :03:41. | |
from the young man who used to swagger around the no-go areas | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
in Londonderry, as commander What had started as a fight | :03:49. | :03:50. | |
for civil rights had Yet, alongside the many | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
bombings and shootings, Martin McGuinness saw opportunities | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
at the ballot box for Sinn Fein, the political | :04:04. | :04:05. | |
party linked to the IRA. Even then, the language | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
of threat remained. We don't believe that winning | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
elections, and winning any amount of votes, | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
will bring freedom in Ireland. At the end of the day, | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
it will be the cutting edge of IRA But, after years of killings | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
and chaos, in the 1990s, IRA ceasefires offered | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
the opportunity for talks Not only would they shake | :04:26. | :04:27. | |
hands, after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, | :04:28. | :04:42. | |
they joined each Eventually, at its head | :04:43. | :04:43. | |
was the unlikely partnership of two former enemies - | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness. The firebrand unionist and radical | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
republican became so close that they were nicknamed the Chuckle | :04:55. | :04:56. | |
Brothers. There were republicans who continued | :04:57. | :05:04. | |
to threaten that political progress. But when a police officer | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
was killed, the then-deputy first minister stood side-by-side | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
with the chief constable to condemn They are traitors to | :05:13. | :05:14. | |
the island of Ireland. Alongside the words, | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
there were actions on all sides. The Queen's cousin Lord Mountbatten | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
was killed by the IRA. Yet, after the Troubles, | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
royal and republican were able Thank you very much, | :05:31. | :05:32. | |
I am still alive! However, relationships at Stormont | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
always seemed strained after Ian Paisley stepped down | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
as First Minister, to be replaced by Peter Robinson, | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
and then Arlene Foster. Earlier this year, with his | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
ill-health by then obvious, Martin McGuinness walked out | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
of government, amid a row between Sinn Fein and the DUP, | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
the boy from Derry's Bogside retiring as deputy first minister | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
after years in the IRA. I've been over 25 years working | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
and building the peace. The past actions of the IRA | :06:04. | :06:13. | |
will colour many people's views But as a republican who worked | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
towards reconciliation, he will be remembered as a key | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
figure in changing Northern Ireland. Much more reaction to his death | :06:22. | :06:32. | |
coming up on the programme. The rate of inflation has exceeded | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
the Bank of England's two per cent target for the first | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
time since 2013. Consumer prices leapt by 2.3 | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
per cent in February - Experts say rising food prices | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
because of fall in the value A father has told this | :06:49. | :06:55. | |
programme his life was ruined when police wrongly accused him | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
of being a paedophile after a typing error sent officers | :07:01. | :07:02. | |
to the wrong address. Nigel Lang, from Sheffield, | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
was arrested on suspicion of possessing indecent | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
images of children. He was subsequently suspended | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
from work and wasn't He was eventually cleared | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
when it was discovered that police had mistakenly added an extra digit | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
to an IP address linked Hertfordshire Constabulary | :07:20. | :07:21. | |
later admitted the error and apologised to Mr Lang, | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
who was awarded compensation. He told Victoria how the ordeal | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
affected his family. You don't realise what impact it has | :07:32. | :07:45. | |
had on them because you are the one who is fighting, fighting the fight | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
to clear your name and I was just a possessed. I felt compelled to clear | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
my name, because this was far reaching. | :07:59. | :08:00. | |
A man has been charged with the murder of a one year | :08:01. | :08:02. | |
Bidhya Sagar Das, who's 33, is also charged with attempting | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
to murder the boy's twin sister, who remains in a critical | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
Both children were discovered with serious injuries | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
at a flat near Finsbury Park on Saturday night. | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later, | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second | :08:22. | :08:23. | |
The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time". | :08:32. | :08:40. | |
More at 10:30am. Thank you for your messages about the case of Nigel | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
Lang. You saw a clip of him in the news. The man accused of possessing | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
indecent images of children because of a typo. Stephen says, I am a | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
police officer and people from all walks of life make the stakes but in | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
this case when someone's family is turned upside down surely an apology | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
is not. People get compensated for far less. Sort this manner. Gary | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
said he hopes the man is able to find purpose in peace and shame on | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
the police for their obvious disregard for his human rights. | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
Please wish Nigel Best of the future. Another says a simple typo | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
turned his life upside down. He sounds crushed by it. It is awful. | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
You can see the interview on the programme page. If you are getting | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
in touch you are very welcome. The latest sport now. | :09:44. | :09:45. | |
Here's some sport now with Olly Foster. | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
Yesterday we looked at doping in amateur sport, and today it is about | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
e sport. E-sports is competitive | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
computer gaming. It's a massive industry already | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
and is expected to double in size, breaking ?1 billion in global | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
revenue and push its audience Paris St-Germain, the French | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
football club, have created They don't play football games | :10:11. | :10:18. | |
because where the real money is at the moment is in these fantasy | :10:19. | :10:34. | |
shoot-em up or battlefield games. With millions of players online | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
and all the commercial and sponsorship spin-offs that go | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
with that kind of audience. The club is trying to expand into | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
new markets. Going into markets where football cannot. | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
Here is the e-sports analyst Peter Warman | :10:50. | :10:51. | |
E sport compared to traditional, already audience size justifies the | :10:52. | :11:03. | |
position in the top ten of sports worldwide and revenue wise I expect | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
it will take them another five years but then it will be one of the top | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
five sports in the world. I do not see a risk of e-sports being a hype. | :11:15. | :11:22. | |
Are they healthy is the question I am supposed to ask you in a po-faced | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
way? Would you have thought of sitting in | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
front of a computer screen for ten hours a day, which it takes to | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
become a top gamer is what we are concerned about. Children still want | :11:39. | :11:47. | |
to be the next Harry Kane, Jessica Ennis-Hill, but this e-sports thing | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
is growing and the average age of followers is 20-35, older than you | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
might think. But they say it takes dedication and you cannot be a | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
fatty, you have to be fit to rise to the top. There are tens of thousands | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
in arenas watching the sport take place. There is the competitive | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
nature of it. There are so many millions online. Children watch | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
them. They can see them making a lot of money playing games to a high | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
standard but how many times have I told my boy, are you sure that is | :12:25. | :12:36. | |
enough Fifa four today? "Without him there | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
would be no peace" - to the former deputy first minister | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
of Northern Ireland and one-time IRA commander | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
Martin McGuinness, who has died this He had been suffering | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
from a rare heart condition. leader turned peacemaker worked | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
at the heart of the power-sharing government following the 1998 | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
Good Friday Agreement. That brought an end to the troubles | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
in Northern Ireland. Let's hear now some of the things | :13:01. | :13:11. | |
people have been saying Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams said | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
he was a "passionate republican who worked tirelessly for peace | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
and reconciliation and for Throughout his life Martin showed | :13:19. | :13:20. | |
great determination, dignity and humility and it was no | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
different during his short illness." Prime Minister Theresa May says that | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
while she can never condone the path Martin McGuinnness took | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
in his early life, he "ultimately played a defining role in leading | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
the Republican movement Former Prime Minister Tony Blair | :13:34. | :13:35. | |
said the peace process would not have been possible | :13:36. | :13:49. | |
without the "leadership and courage" Ian Paisley's son had this to say. | :13:50. | :14:08. | |
It is not how you start your life that is important, it is how you | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
finish your life and a lot of people will be thankful Martin McGuinness | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
finished his life a lot better than it would have been. Victims | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
campaigner Alan Wright, whose wife was killed in an IRA bomb, said | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
Northern Ireland owes a gratitude to Martin McGuinness. His fingerprints | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
are all over the troubles, but also over the peace process. Lord Tebbit | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
was one of those injured by an Ray Ban in 1984. He told us that the | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
world was a sweeter place without Martin McGuinness in it and he | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
described Martin McGuinness as a coward. We can speak now to | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
politicians who worked closely with him. Lord Hain. | :14:51. | :15:02. | |
We're also joined from Westminster by the SDLP MP Mark Durkan, | :15:03. | :15:10. | |
who was Deputy First Minister from 2001-2 and leader | :15:11. | :15:12. | |
who has spent much of his career reporting on Northern Ireland | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
and first met Martin McGuinness shortly after Bloody Sunday in 1972. | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
Where British soldiers shot civilians. | :15:24. | :15:32. | |
Lord Hain how would you reflect on the life of Martin McGuinness? In | :15:33. | :15:41. | |
the settlement we negotiated in 2007, that you'll remember brought | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
Martin McGuinness together with Ian Paisley. Bitter old enemies. It was | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
hard work achieving that negotiated settlement, but they were able to | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
rule as First Minister and Deputy First Ministers joint leaders of the | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
Northern Ireland Government together very effectively bringing a sense of | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
reconciliation between bitter old enemies who had never actually even | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
exchanged a word between each other prior to the negotiations in which I | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
was involved under Tony Blair. And that conversion of Martin | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
McGuinness from paramilitary to peacemaker, you're clear that was | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
genuine? Oh yes, it was. I think it dated back from the time when the | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
IRA and Martin McGuinness was a leader of the IRA. He made no secret | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
of that when he and Gerry Adams decided working with John Hume and | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
the SDLP and others that there was no way in which the bomb and the | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
bullet and the terror of the IRA could actually defeat the British | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
Army and kick Northern Ireland into a united Ireland. That they had to | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
pursue a democratic path. Equally at that period, the British Government | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
decided it couldn't defeat them, the IRA militarily. So there was a | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
moving together, a convergence to recognise that a negotiated | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
settlement, it took a long time to achieve would be the only way | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
forward and in that respect, Martin McGuinness was crucial. His | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
conversion to the democratic path from the paramilitary path, from the | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
harror and terror of the IRA into working together with former | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
unionist foes and other politicians in the Northern Ireland Government | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
was a part of Northern Ireland's transition in which many politicians | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
played their role, but he was very important with the grass-roots IRA | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
credibility amongst republicans to persuade them to give up the war, to | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
sign up to support justice and support for policing and the rule of | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
law in Northern Ireland, and to move forward together with their old | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
enemies. Thank you, Lord Hain. Mark Durkan, how did you find Martin | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
McGuinness? Well, obviously as someone who is based in Derry, | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
Martin McGuinness was my constituent but he certainly didn't vote for me | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
and made that very clear! But one who I worked with over many years | :18:19. | :18:27. | |
going back to Hume-Adams days and he was someone who was a tough | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
opponent. He's someone who would have been sceptical of arguments | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
that were put in front of him and would have to be convinced himself | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
before he would take it upon himself to convince others, but we had that | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
sense throughout the peace process that if we could keep going, even | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
though the violence was still continuing while the dialogue went | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
on, that we could get to a point where we would get a cessation of | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
violence and that could create the context in which there would be | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
negotiations and while Martin was sceptical of the idea that we could | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
get an agreement that the Irish people north and south would endorse | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
and that would transform the arguments around violence the fact | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
is once he became persuaded he became a very active persuader | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
himself. So we saw him then embrace not just the talks process, but the | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
agreement and the fact that it got a mandate from the people of Ireland | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
and he was someone who in public office reflected not just his own | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
party's mandate about which he was understandably precious, but he also | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
made a point of constantly reflecting the mandate that the | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
people of Ireland had given to the agreement as well and that was one | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
of the things that meant that he used public office towards | :19:45. | :19:46. | |
reconciliation in a very positive way. Thank you. Mark Durkan SDLP, | :19:47. | :19:54. | |
MP. Peter Taylor, journalist and broadcaster, when did you first meet | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
Martin McGuinness? In 1972 shortly after Bloody Sunday, it was my | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
introduction to the Irish conflict. I remember meeting him in the | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
gasworks in the Bogside and I had a long talk with him. I got in touch | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
with him because John Hume had pointed him out and said he's the | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
person you ought to be speaking to. He struck me as being highly intell | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
jept, very articulate and he was only 22 at the time and I always | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
remember he said to me, I would much rather be washing my car and mowing | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
the lawn on a Sunday than doing what I'm doing! I didn't go into detail | :20:29. | :20:36. | |
about what he was doing. If you told me then he then that he would go on | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
to become the most powerful IRA leader throughout most of the 40 | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
years, but also Deputy First Minister and somebody who donned | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
white tie and tails to dine with Her Majesty the Queen at Windsor Castle, | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
I would have thought it was just fantasy and impossible, but of | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
course, that's what happened. And he is as you know, as others have said, | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
he was the central figure in persuading the IRA rank and file to | :21:06. | :21:13. | |
basically abandon the Holy Grail of the IRA and not to abandon it | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
because they still wanted it achieve a united Ireland, but to go into | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
power sharing at Stormont, as a means to an end of ultimaty | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
persuading unionists to come on board and then achieve hopefully | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
achieve their republican gold of a united Ireland. So it's a remarkable | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
Europeany... And he was able to do it because he was one of them? Yes. | :21:36. | :21:43. | |
He had the credibility. Again, I remember one senior IRA volunteer, | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
because that's what they're known as volunteers, saying to me when I | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
asked this person and others about how they felt, how the rank and file | :21:50. | :21:57. | |
felt about going into Stormont and effectively accepting partition | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
which is what it was, and he said, "If it's good enough for Martin, | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
it's good enough for me and good enough for most of us." His great | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
achievement is that he was able to persuade, because of the kind of | :22:10. | :22:11. | |
person he was, because of his charisma and his leadership and his | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
strategy, you must never forget that he was, I've always believed the | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
most senior IRA man in the island of Ireland. It was because of that | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
personality assisted and aaided by his partner Gerry Adams, you must | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
never forget this work because they were a duo, were able to bring the | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
IRA, Sinn Fein, into the peace process. And in the critical back | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
channel talks that were the prerequisite of the IRA ceasefire | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
that took place in the early 1990s which the Brits have been working on | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
for 20 years in the shadows, it was Martin McGuinness that the MI6 | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
officer Michael Oatly first met and that's when Michael Oakley, the MI6 | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
officer, realised there was an opportunity of dialogue and Martin | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
McGuinness also took the message back from Michael Oakley on behalf | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
of MI6, the British Government, that some arrangement could be done. It | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
was Martin McGuinness who was the key interlocutor for the IRA and the | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
IRA's Army Council. So it is a remarkable story. I doubt if we | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
would be where we are today where it not for Martin McGuinness, but one | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
must never forget his role as an IRA leader. Now people say, many people | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
say, many loyalists say, unionists, say he is a man with blood on his | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
hands, what did he do? There are very few people who know precisely | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
what he did do, but I suspect there was little that the IRA did in | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
Northern Ireland because at one stage he was the acting head of | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
Northern Command, that did not know what he was responsible for and | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
certainly, when it came to the identification of suspected | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
informers, and agents, British agents within the IRA, those who had | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
been turned by British intelligence, I think Martin McGuinness would have | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
known who they were, he would have been kept informed and I suspect | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
because also he was allegedly a member of the Army Council, he would | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
be one of those who had to give the thumbs down that the person had to | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
be quotes executed or murdered. Incredibly power and influential | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
figure and his legacy is assured. There have been others too who have | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
gone from, "Terrorist to politician." But in terms of our | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
experience over the past 40 years, there has been nobody like him. | :24:44. | :24:45. | |
Thank you very much. Thank you. Peter Taylor. | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
Next this morning, it's estimated that at least 1,400 children | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
were subjected to appalling sexual exploitation and | :24:54. | :24:54. | |
Dozens of suspects are still being investigated by the in the town | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
after more than 15 years of widespread child sexual abuse. | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
Girls as young as 12 were raped, abducted and tortured | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
by gangs of predominantly British Pakistani men. | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
Now the BBC's Asian Network and this programme have been given exclusive | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
access to a therapy session for some of those victims and their families. | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
They've been talking to Rickin Majithia. | :25:15. | :25:23. | |
Rotherham is a small town with large scars. | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
Between 1997 and 2013, at least 1,400 young girls | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
were abused here, largely by gangs of British Pakistani men. | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
It's expected to take many years before all of the culprits | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
For the victims and their families, though, the pain is likely | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
But there is one place where they can come together for support. | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
We've been given exclusive access to a group therapy session. | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
It's the first time cameras have been allowed in. | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
She's worked with children in Rotherham for decades and first | :25:55. | :26:05. | |
helped to expose the scale of the abuse. | :26:06. | :26:07. | |
What we decided to do, probably about a year ago now, | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
is put together some therapy sessions, so we offer | :26:11. | :26:12. | |
We have a counsellor outside so people can actually | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
go into counselling, relive some of their awful | :26:18. | :26:19. | |
experiences, get the support they need and then come back | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
into the group and the group will work with them and help | :26:23. | :26:24. | |
The therapy provides a unique opportunity for victims | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
I was being raped upon raped by numerous men, not knowing exactly | :26:31. | :26:40. | |
what's going off with me because I'd been spiked by drugs | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
Being able to relate to other people and understand that the things that | :26:44. | :26:51. | |
I went through are very similar to the things that they have been | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
through automatically helps me because it | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
I was led to believe from a young age that it was my fault. | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
More confident and I'm more open about things now, | :27:09. | :27:10. | |
The families of abuse victims also come here to receive support. | :27:11. | :27:21. | |
It's like you're walking round like a zombie. | :27:22. | :27:23. | |
You've got no heart and you've no brain because you just | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
don't know where to turn, how to feel, but inside your | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
The only help we've had, and it saved not only me as a father, | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
it saved our family, and without this place, | :27:38. | :27:39. | |
Some of the parents find that they now struggle to trust | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
I worry about the relationship she's been in since her exploitation. | :27:46. | :27:52. | |
She were groomed at 13 and she's never actually had the opportunity | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
to develop the normal healthy relationships that she would have if | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
So, you know, she's going to struggle to realise | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
what is a safe relationship that somebody cares about her, | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
you know, that she is loved, and that's going to take | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
a while and it will come and it's going to be difficult, | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
and is going to be difficult for you as a mum because what you're | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
also going to do as well is every boyfriend that she ever walks | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
through the door with, you're going to be suspicious | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
and you're going to judge them based on what she went through as a child. | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
This girl, who we're calling Lizzie, attends with her parents. | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
In 2010, five men were jailed for abusing her and other girls | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
It's understood that all have since been released. | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
These are her parents. We're calling them Phil and Sally. | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
She doesn't like being in Rotherham. She doesn't feel comfortable at all. | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
I don't know what it is, it must be anxiety or whatever, | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
She won't go out anywhere, won't do anything. | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
She just felt it better for herself that she was out of town. | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
I think she still doesn't feel safe. I don't know what it is. | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
How have centres and programmes like the one here helped you to overcome | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
It's the only place that does a family therapy class. | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
At the time, you don't think of how it affects... | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
I didn't think of how it affects my husband, | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
and then when I didn't realise how bad it had affected him, | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
I felt a bit selfish because it affects a whole | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
When it's going off, all your focus is just on the girl | :29:33. | :29:40. | |
Another woman who attends the sessions is Lisa, | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
As a young girl, she was groomed by a gang of men. | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
I were left there for 24 hours, 48 hours. | :29:53. | :30:05. | |
Last month, six men were collectively jailed | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
In a statement in court, Lisa described them as pure evil. | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
It's been more than 15 years since he was sexually exploited. | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
Has their sentence given you a sense of finality to this? | :30:20. | :30:21. | |
Since I found that they were found guilty, my anxiety and depression | :30:22. | :30:30. | |
and everything just started to disappear slowly. | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
I feel so positive and empowered now that I'm finally | :30:35. | :30:36. | |
using my horrific experience for something good. | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
Your daughter is now a teenager herself. | :30:44. | :30:45. | |
What fears do you have about her growing up in Rotherham? | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
I am quite aware of everything that is still going on and that | :30:49. | :30:57. | |
is a big fear for me, because you would think that such | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
an explosion of what's happened and it being all over the press | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
That scares me for her and not just her, my other children, | :31:05. | :31:12. | |
It scares me for the future generations because it's not | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
The whole situation needs to be highlighted properly. | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
They need to cover it properly with people that | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
We understand what's gone off, we understand what needs | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
to be done and the way that we would like to have been | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
approached as a family back then, so why not utilise that? | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
Why not utilise victims, survivors and utilise | :31:41. | :31:42. | |
the way that we know that we would like to | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
So now the victims and their families are taking it upon | :31:45. | :31:52. | |
They're visiting businesses that operate at night to teach them | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
how to spot the signs of sexual exploitation. | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
Investigations into Elisabeth's case are still active but that hasn't | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
stopped her and her father from coming to this takeaway. | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
Have you seen anything recently what's worried you? | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
Yes, there's been a few times where I've had to walk people home | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
for their safety because I've seen people around who have had eyes | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
on younger children so I've decided to walk them home, | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
purely out of choice, just to make sure they are safer, | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
and also it's little things we do for the environment that matters, | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
As a community, how do you think it's impacted on...? | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
Well, racial-wise, what happens in Rotherham, | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
what happened in Rotherham, again, Asian people mostly are being | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
And it just defines exactly what's going on in the world as well, | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
you know, how a minority makes mistakes and the majority | :32:53. | :32:54. | |
Overall in the world, the same thing's happening, | :32:55. | :33:04. | |
which is an unfortunate thing, but it's just who people are. | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
Do you think that this programme what's being launched | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
is going to help fetch the community back together? | :33:10. | :33:11. | |
It doesn't matter for us whether you're white, | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
Asian or whatever it give it means we can make a difference and bring | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
one child's life back together and save it before it happens, | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
it just means the world to us, and whether the community | :33:27. | :33:28. | |
I hope it does happen, because it will just show a stronger | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
You can't make a sound with one hand. | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
It's got to be together, you know, to make a sound. | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
That's what matters and that's what will make a difference. | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
Given what happened to your family, how does it feel when you come | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
to a place like this with your daughter to educate | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
businesses about child sexual exploitation? | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
The simple reason is, it just doesn't happen | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
in the Asian community - it happens in the white | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
And what we've got to do from now on is put that to one side and look | :34:02. | :34:10. | |
More on that on the Asian Network throughout the day. | :34:11. | :34:23. | |
With the news, here's Joanna in the BBC Newsroom. | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
Sinn Fein's Martin McGuinness, Northern Ireland's former | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
deputy first minister, has died aged 66. | :34:30. | :34:31. | |
It's understood he had been suffering from | :34:32. | :34:33. | |
The former IRA leader turned peacemaker worked at the heart | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
of the power-sharing government following the 1998 | :34:40. | :34:40. | |
He became deputy first minister in 2007, standing alongside | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
Democratic Unionist Party leaders Ian Paisley, Peter Robinson | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
But he stood down from his post in January in protest | :34:48. | :34:55. | |
against the DUP's handling of an energy scandal, in a move that | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
Tony Blair, who was Prime Minister when the Good Friday Agreement | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
was signed in 1998, has been speaking to the BBC this morning. | :35:04. | :35:13. | |
Martin McGuinness had been determined to give Northern Ireland | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
a different future despite his violent past. Some people will | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
remember him as a man-of-war, who can never forget the violence of his | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
early years, but for those of us who helped put together the Northern | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
Ireland peace process with him, we will remember his legacy as a man of | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
peace, a person whose courage and determination and leadership in the | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
end brought us from the situation where every day people were either | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
being injured or killed as a result of the troubles, to a place today | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
where it is possible to talk of a genuine peace in Northern Ireland. | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
The rate of inflation has exceeded the Bank of England's two per cent | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
target for the first time since 2013. | :36:02. | :36:03. | |
Consumer prices leapt by 2.3 per cent in February - | :36:04. | :36:05. | |
Experts say rising food prices because of fall in the value | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
A two-day debate at the Scottish Parliament will get under way later, | :36:13. | :36:21. | |
as First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes her case for a second | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
The Scottish National Party leader will seek Holyrood's backing to ask | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
Westminster for the power to hold another vote, despite | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
the Prime Minister saying "now is not the time". | :36:31. | :36:39. | |
Join me for BBC newsroom live at 11. And now the sport. Jamie Vardy said | :36:40. | :36:50. | |
he received death threats from fans who hold him responsible for the | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
sacking of Claudio Ranieri. He said he has been terrified and his family | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
targeted after reports he was one of the players who influenced the | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
decision to let Claudio Ranieri go. Manchester United midfielder Bastian | :37:04. | :37:13. | |
Schweinsteiger will join an MLS team. Canadian team Toronto Wolfpack | :37:14. | :37:22. | |
will play the Salford Red Devils in rugby league's challenge cup. | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
Toronto beat championship side London Broncos in the last round. | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
Lewis Hamilton team-mate Valtteri Bottas said he has no intention of | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
being the number two driver and Mercedes. He replaced Nico Rosberg | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
who retired after winning the World Championship. The first race of the | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
season is next Sunday in Melbourne. I will be back after 11. | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
To say that Martin McGuiness was a divisive figure | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
is an understatement - a man of war who became | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
A former IRA commander who became one of the architects | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
of the agreement that was ultimately to bring an end to the decades | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
He grew up in Derry's Bogside, radicalised by what he saw | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
as discrimination and murder on the streets of his city. | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
We believe that the only way that Irish people can bring about the | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
freedom of their country is through the use of armed struggle. | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
I wish it could be done in another way. | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
If someone could tell me a peaceful way | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
to do it, then I would gladly support that. | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
He had a leading role in the IRA during the time | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
the paramilitary organisation was bombing his home city. | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
This is him addressing a rally in Tyrone, which had one of the most | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
active republican paramilitary groups, at the height | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
Republican people of Tyrone I am honoured to be with you to | :38:44. | :38:56. | |
commemorate and pay tribute to the volunteers of the Irish Republican | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
Army in this historic county who gave their lives in every generation | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
in Ireland struggle for freedom. In doing so we are in union with | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
Republicans in every part of Ireland in the ring the freedom fighters of | :39:14. | :39:21. | |
the IRA who selflessly gave everything in our continued struggle | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
against foreign occupation and domination. | :39:24. | :39:24. | |
He went on to work at the heart of the power-sharing | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
government following the 1998 Good Friday Agreement | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
which eventually led to this famous handshake with the Queen and a toast | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
By 2007, he was Northern Ireland's deputy first minister standing | :39:32. | :39:39. | |
alongside his one time bitter political rival from | :39:40. | :39:41. | |
the Democratic Unionst Party, First Minister Ian Paisley. | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
Many people in this hall today played an important part in our | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
peace process, and many others, unfortunately, could not be with us | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
And I want to send to them our warmest thanks. | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
We will continue to rely on that support as we strive | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
towards a society moving from division | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
and disharmony to one which | :40:09. | :40:10. | |
celebrates our diversity and is determined to provide a better | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
One which cherishes the elderly, the vulnerable, the young | :40:15. | :40:25. | |
and all of our children equally, which welcomes | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
warmly those from other lands and cultures who wish to join us and | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
A society which remembers those who have lost | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
Martin McGuinness resigned as deputy first minister | :40:37. | :40:50. | |
in the Northern Ireland assembly at the beginning of the year | :40:51. | :40:52. | |
in protest against the Democratic Unionist Party's handling | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
of an energy scandal, which eventually triggered | :40:56. | :40:57. | |
During his last press conference, Mr McGuinness | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
During his last press conference, Mr McGuinness appeared frail. | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
He died in hospital in his home city of Londonderry early this morning, | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
We can speak now to the former Conservative leader | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
Iain Duncan Smith, who served as a soldier in Northern Ireland | :41:15. | :41:22. | |
and to Lord Bew, who's Professor of Irish Politics | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
at Queen's University Belfast and was also historical adviser | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
That looked into the events of Bloody Sunday where British soldiers | :41:31. | :41:41. | |
shot 26 unarmed civilians during a peaceful protest. Iain Duncan Smith, | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
your reflections on Martin McGuinness. He will divide opinion | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
enormously. There will be people who hark back to his time in the IRA | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
where he was no doubt responsible for a series of bombings and | :41:59. | :42:06. | |
outrages that lost many people'slives, their families, and | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
even Norman Tebbit today was on television talking about how he | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
considers him to be a murderer. At the same time we want also to | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
remember at some point he decided this didn't succeed and they had to | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
formulate the peace process with the others and that has been what we | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
hold onto now most dear, that the next generation should not face what | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
my generation and people living in Northern Ireland, the army and | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
police faced, in Birmingham, Manchester, London, where there were | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
bombings and people still seek justice for their lost ones. It is | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
not a time to say you have to think of him as a peacemaker. I simply say | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
whatever your judgment, we have to give thanks in this sense Martin | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
McGuinness decided the road to peace was the road he should now take and | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
with that I believe the peace process came about and I give thanks | :43:01. | :43:10. | |
for that. Lord Bew, as a professor of Irish politics, how will history | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
remember him? I would like to echo the last point made. The last time I | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
saw Martin McGuinness was in the summer, when he was speaking at | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
Glentoran football club, in the heart of Protestant east Belfast, | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
and he spoke with such eloquence and was very well received. It is a good | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
memory. People sometimes say not much has changed in Northern | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
Ireland. I recall that event, a dramatic change. Everybody and | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
Martin himself was honest about this, saying he was a member of the | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
IRA. There is a key question about that early involve them. There is a | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
tendency to act set it as in voluntary. There is human agency and | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
it is not just that people like John Hume opposed the path to violence | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
and sectarianism, it is the fact radicals in Derry like Eamon McCann, | :44:07. | :44:16. | |
and others look at their testimony about this period when the IRA gets | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
off the ground. There is a question of choices made. Were people who | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
wanted change in Northern Ireland who did not make the choice for | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
violence and we should respect them as well at this moment. Some have | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
said this morning that the peace process, going back further, the | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
ceasefire that was brokered in 1994, four years before the Good Friday | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
Agreement, could not have been done without Martin McGuinness, do you | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
agree? There is no question he was critical to that process because of | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
course he was the man making in some senses the biggest journey. Having | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
served in the Bogside, I lost friends as a result of the troubles | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
and there are many families in Britain who have done so, and so the | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
idea of peace is important, very tangible and hanging onto it and | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
getting it right is correct. Moving over to do that, the answer is yes, | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
but there were many people who did not choose the road to violence as a | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
way to this, so there will be divided opinion but my sense is we | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
have a peace process that happened because the majority of the IRA led | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
by McGuinness decided to lay down arms and to never again take them up | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
and this is the key element we have to hold onto for the next | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
generation, because it is horrific the idea of a democratic country | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
including Northern Ireland could go through such horror because people | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
refuse to accept there is a rule of law and there is a better way to do | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
this and I hope we will never return to that again. | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
You're Chair of the Committee on standards in public life and on | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
Thursday you will be discussing the appointment of George Osborne, | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
former chancellor, and Conservative MP for Tatton as editor of the | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
London Evening Standard. Is there a conflict of interest between being | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
an MP, Conservative MP and editor of a newspaper? Look, there is a great | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
public debate about that particular case and point. My committee is much | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
more concerned with the actual issue, not any personality. It's our | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
job to deal with the issue. The issue is that in 2009 we recommended | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
a particular way of dealing with MPs who had second jobs and we | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
recommended a compromise. The question is in the light of | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
increased public debate whether or not, where we're going to stand on | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
that? It is not an individual case that concerns us. It is really not | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
our role to respond too much to directly individual cases. It's our | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
role to deal with the broader issue and there is now an issue about | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
whether or not our ruling in 2009 which was that as long as MPs told | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
their constituents at the time of election that they might have this | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
or that second job, whether it should stand and there is a very | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
good argument in favour of that at the time, we need people with wider | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
experience in Parliament or whether or not there are requirements and so | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
on. But that's now, that's the issue for us, not an individual case, but | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
that deep issue about MPs and second jobs and... I understand. Let me ask | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
about the broader issue. Can you be an MP and have five different jobs? | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
That's obviously part of the discussion. There is now... What do | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
you think? I'm, I've got a committee now which will be nine people and I | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
want them to have to be able to say precisely what they think. We've | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
read everything. We are well aware of the intensity of the public | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
debate, but it is the job of the committee as a committee which | :48:05. | :48:06. | |
includes representatives of the three main parties to come to some | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
kind of consensus and it doesn't help if the chairman starts saying | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
too much in pick before our meeting on Thursday. Should he have referred | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
this appointment to you first before it was publicly announced? No, the | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
issue here and it is part of our remit on this point is the committee | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
which deals with these matters. They have a particular role. It is | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
certainly our view that the work of that committee should be respected | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
and facilitated by everybody. It is a light touch attempt to regulate | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
and reach requirements because people are leaving politics younger | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
these days and people do have a right to earn a living and that | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
committee has played a very substantial role in very difficult | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
circumstances. Are you disappointed he didn't refer it to them? I will | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
simply. Well, no, there is a question mark and a timeline and | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
there is a debate about that. I will simply say that our committee firmly | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
believes that that committee should be treated with great respect | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
because it's trying to do a very difficult job in the public | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
interest. The inference there is you don't think it has been treated with | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
respect? There are details this all these cases which complicate the | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
matters because unfortunately in this area, there are always | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
complications. There are always special twists and people always | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
have different views. But if you're asking me does the Committee on | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
Standards have a role in defending bodies like IPSA or ACO BA who have | :49:46. | :49:53. | |
to make difficult choices, when sometimes the public are in an | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
impatient and angry mood, I do believe those bodies should really | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
be respected because everybody connected with them is trying their | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
best to deal with difficult issues which there is no simple solution | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
to. Can you be clear on this - your committee is going to have to review | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
the rules as a result of some MPs taking more than one job. Yes. As | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
well as being an MP? We're committed to a debate and review. I've said we | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
have to now, as a committee, which and I hope the committee will be | :50:24. | :50:31. | |
able to reach a way forward. We now have to look at, we cannot say that | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
we have a situation exactly as it is in 2009. If only, leave this case | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
out of the matter. We have to take into account the public opinion and | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
the polling the committee used to draw on which was much more divided | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
on this issue. Now public opinion has changed. It doesn't mean you buy | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
down before it, before the polling which the committee drew on in the | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
past is not quite in the same place. It is not in the same place. The | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
public is much more spentical. This again doesn't mean we bow down | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
before it. It does mean we've reached the point where we have to | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
have a review and a debate about these issues. I understand. Will as | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
part of your review, your committee be looking at whether MPs should | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
have second jobs at all? Look, if you're going to have a debate, | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
you've got on the one side, there is the very strong belief of many | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
people and I saw it forcefully stated in the Times editorial | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
yesterday. Saying that you know we have too many purely professional | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
politicians, the public hates the idea that we have people who have | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
done nothing in their life, but politics in Parliament and if you | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
have people who have got medical or legal experience, they are likely to | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
want to carry it on in some way in Parliament. So you've got the | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
balance between that argument which has to be taken seriously and the | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
balance of keeping elder states with the politics if you can and the | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
other argument we have to take into account which is the argument that | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
in fact a lot of the public believe and there is an argument that, that | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
the salaries of MPs have risen, we have to take the counter arguments | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
into account that believe that MPs shouldn't have second jobsment you | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
can't have a debate and say there is a certain line of argument that we | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
exclude from discussion. That will not happen. There are nine lively | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
people who will be discussing this on my committee on Thursday. And | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
they're not going to accept that there is some kind of view which is | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
so out landishly radical it can't be heard. Thank you very much. | :52:30. | :52:37. | |
Should Scotland have a second referendum on independence? | :52:38. | :52:44. | |
The issue is being debated in the Scottish Parliament today. | :52:45. | :52:46. | |
Nicola Sturgeon's SNP party wants to hold another vote in the autumn | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
of 2018 and the spring of the following year - | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
before the UK leaves the EU - saying most Scots want to remain | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
We can talk to two people who'll be taking part in the debate. | :52:59. | :53:06. | |
In Edinburgh, the Conservative member of the Scottish Parliament. | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
Miles Briggs, whose party doesn't want a referendum. | :53:13. | :53:14. | |
Steve Dewar, who believes Scotland should be independent, | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
that's what he voted for in 2014 and is pleased that the country | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
may again have a chance to vote on the issue. | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
And Judy LocHart who doesn't think a second vote is justified. They're in | :53:29. | :53:35. | |
Glasgow. Jeremy, good morning to you -- Joan. If Theresa May doesn't give | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
per mirbs in the time scale that you want it, how could you force this | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
vote? Well, basically, what we are saying is that sovereignty lies with | :53:46. | :53:48. | |
the Scottish people, that's been widely recognised in the past and we | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
will have, we already have an endorsement in our manifesto of the | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
SNP manifesto said we would hold that referendum if we were dragged | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
out of the EU against our will. So the Scottish Parliament will now | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
vote for the section 30 and then the ball is in the court of the UK | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
Government to show that it respects Scotland as an equal partner in the | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
Union, respects our manifesto and respects the views of the Scottish | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
Parliament. If it doesn't, would you have an informal referendum anyway, | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
what's known as an advisory referendum? Well, the First Minister | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
hasn't said that, no. What do you think? Well, I think the ball is in | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
the court of the UK Government. I mean Theresa May came to... Would | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
you like... Would you like an advisory referendum? Theresa May | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
said she would respect the views of Scotland. We would have a UK-wide | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
approach to Brexit. That clearly has not happened and the views of the | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
62% of Scots who voted to remain have been ignored by the UK | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
Government. The UK Government haven't even told the Scottish | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
Government when they're triggering Article 50. They told the BBC first. | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
OK. Myles Briggs as a Conservative MSP, what is the sort of time scale | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
when a referendum could be held in Scotland? Good morning, Victoria. | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
There is a lot of anger actually in Scotland today that we're going | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
through this all over again. I'm asking you about the time scale, | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
when a referendum could be held? What we've said and what the Prime | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
Minister has been clear on, now is not the time. So that's why I'm | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
asking about the time scale? Indeed. We're going through what is one of | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
the most difficult times in our country's future. Around exiting the | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
EU. We need all politicians to be focussed on working on that and | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
getting the best possible deal for Scotland. And after that, after the | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
Brexit deal, what sort of time scale? To answer your question | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
specifically. Please. The First Minister said that the people in | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
Scotland when they want a referendum, she would listen to | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
that. Now, poll after poll in Scotland shows no one wants another | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
referendum. We're seeing 60% of people saying they don't want to | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
return to the politics of grievance and division as we saw two years | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
ago. You would like another referendum vote, Steve. Yes. But | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
according to Conservatives and others actually, there is just not a | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
majority of people who want a second referendum? I mean, they are going | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
to find a fundamental change leaving the EU which is something I voted | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
against and most people I know voted against and it is something that we | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
don't really want to take part in. If the UK is going to go ahead with | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
that, it seems the only way not to be part of that process is to be an | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
independent country. So for me there has to be another vote. The SNP told | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
me there would be another vote and that's one of the reasons I voted | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
for them last year. Judy, you really don't want a second independence | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
referendum. What should happen now then? I think nothing should happen. | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
The people of Scotland voted decisively to remain as part of the | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
United Kingdom. The UK voted to leave the EU so that's what should | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
happen. We were told it was a once in a generation vote on independence | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
and the people who wanted to remain won the vote so democracy should be | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
respected. Nobody apart from the SNP is calling for a second referendum. | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
It was in their manifesto. They were, you know, their majority | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
partner in the Scottish Government... They don't have a | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
majority. A majority partner so that says it all. In their manifesto it | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
said if there was to be a material change in the circumstances of the | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
UK then they would call for a second vote and Brexit is a material | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
change, is it not? Well, I disagree what about all the millions of | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
people who voted for Brexit, but not only that, the SNP can say what they | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
want in their manifesto, and the majority of Scotland didn't vote for | :57:36. | :57:37. | |
that. Thank you very much. | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
The vote, the debate over the next couple of days. Thank you very much. | :57:43. | :57:59. | |
We will hear how Premier League clubs are setting up their own pupil | :58:00. | :58:07. | |
referral units and we will bring you access to Everton's own school. | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
That's tomorrow. Bye-bye. | :58:11. | :58:33. | |
The alternative spirit of 6 Music comes to Glasgow | :58:34. | :58:45. |