21/03/2017 First Minister's Questions

Good afternoon. Welcome to the programme. Carwyn Jones is expected

to face questions on a range of subjects from small businesses,

rough sleeping and having a constitutional convention. Don't

forget we are on Twitter where you can see all the latest business and

the session is already underway. So, questions to the First Minister. I

called a National Assembly to order and the first question is from Paul

Davies. We want a statement to find out what the Welsh Government is

doing to support his knees in West Wales. Business support is available

for small, and medium business, and our focus remains on supporting

entrepreneurs, jobs and the economy. First Minister, I continue to

receive comments from constituents and business in North Wales to say

that although you have announced additional funding, there is indeed

confusion and many business operators don't know whether they

are able to receive this. Can you be more specific about who qualifies

and can you tell us why the Government wanted to target

high-street business without including other business? Of course,

what we have been trying to do is help those who have lost out

temporarily because of the renewal of the business rates and many

people have benefited from that, and of course, those businesses who have

perhaps seen a drop in business rates, we hope we will be able to

help small businesses particularly those who have seen a rise in their

rates. Figures from Lloyds bank have shown that 40% fewer businesses were

established in the last five year in Pembrokeshire, winning and Anglesey

as compared to the 26 across Wales and a 20% in England. Is the First

Minister willing to look into why the figures are so different in the

Westerly counties, as compare it with places such as Gwent, where

there's been a decline of 8% and the award goes to Merthyr, where half a

percent decline was seen. Will the First Minister ask his ministers to

look at what is happening in West Wales, in this particular area.

Well, I believe you are talking about the Lloyds and figures. We

don't know what methodology they used and what the nature of the data

set is. Having said that, the number of businesses has increased by 2025

in 2011. So, 11,025 in 2015, but of course, we will consider the figures

issued by Lloyds bank to see if there's any kind of problem here

that we need to address in one part of Wales. We are talking about

business ones of ?7 million each. The application deadline is in just

five weeks' time, just the same as what happened with the Growth And

Prosperity By, on the 17th of last year, the deadline for the

applications was just four weeks later. The Scottish Government has

created a ?500 million fund with an open window. Every time the Welsh

Government finds a bit of money down the back of their first sofa, we

announce a new fund and its closed before most businesses have had the

opportunity to hear about it. It's the opposite of strategic and I

believe it makes Wales look amateurish. Our economic growth is

better than Scotland and we've done better than Scottish Government in

that regard. The window is short but nevertheless, the schemes are

popular, they deliver and the economic statistics show that. What

is the Welsh Government doing to tackle rough sleeping in Wales. We

have got the legislation that we passed to ensure that rough sleeping

was dealt with. There's a? The moment in terms of trying to

understand the numbers of people who are sleeping rough, it difficult to

assess but we are not complacent and we are trying to provide a programme

to help those who are homeless. Last week, a press report highlighted

people sleeping rough in Neath. People had had difficult times with

job loss, addiction, leaving prison. There is an acknowledgement that the

bear has been great progress. We are told you don't know enough about

rough sleeping to fix it, and there is a comparative lack of housing in

Wales. Will the First Minister look at how the Welsh Government monitors

rough sleeping and help us find out why it happens. The housing Wales

act 2014 has been implemented and there is a report on this, so we can

find out how rough sleepers are being treated. And other systems are

being explored in order to assist with the annual monitoring that

takes place and they will be further information that take place -- that

will take place later in the year. We will look at local authorities

who are responsible for meeting that need a local areas to find out and

help with people not becoming homeless in the first place. Shelter

are gravely concerned about the lack of data being able to monitor what

is happening in Wales, I believe many of your other programmes such

as communities at work, the data and a lack of data is an emerging theme

for your Government. We have strong legislation so wide as this

situation arise where there is such a lack of data on such an important

issue, and what will be gunning to ensure that there is no growth of

the number of homeless people in Wales? Well, one data which is

important is the data from 2016, showing the legislation were

successful in helping 85% of families who felt under pressure,

who had perhaps lost their House because of that, so we know that has

worked extremely well, but as I said earlier, it's important to insure

that the data we have is adequate to ensure that the legislation works in

the most effective way possible. As a member of the multi-agency

cross-party working group that successfully campaigned under TCC to

build a night shelter in Wrexham, is particularly frustrating that the

Welsh Government's rough sleeper couch shows a 72% rise and that the

numbers in Wrexham are up from 17 to 27 from the previous year and with

61, it has the highest proportion of people sleeping rough over a

two-week period in Wales, even higher than Cardiff. How do you

propose the Government should interact with the charities there,

stop blaming each other, and help ask it to grips with the town 's

issues? I have to say, his party, the Conservatives have to take

responsibility for this. The hammering people have had three the

bedroom tax. Yes, it's true to say that we look to use legislation to

prevent homelessness, but of course the UK Government is responsible for

taking money away from people and making people homeless, though his

party has to accept that they are responsible for much of the threat

of homelessness. First Minister, the discussions around rough sleeping

has been completely toxic. Rather than seeing them as poor unfortunate

souls basing hyperthermia, sleeping in shop doorways, many have seen

them as delinquents and a scourge to be removed from our high streets. Do

you agree with me that rather than serving ASBOs on these people

locking them up, councils across Wales should be providing shelter

and working with various agencies in partnership to find them permanent

accommodation. I take your point on stigma. I have been to the Salvation

Army in Cardiff and have seen and met many of the people who are

homeless. Some of them have very different stories, some are

wrestling with addiction, some find it difficult to remain in

accommodation, and there are many Rob learns individuals have to face.

-- problems. We need to find holistic solutions to these

problems. Thank you, Presiding Officer, may I

wish you many happy returns. I have many years to go before I hit a

milestone of 50! I look forward to you telling me what it is like! But

I wish you all the best on your birthday today, and I'd like to send

best wishes to be Minister for rural affairs who is in convalescence at

present. We want to talk about the local deals with authorities, and

creating a combination of projects that will hopefully lift GBA and

employability and skills and the prospect of Swansea city, and its

region, because it's not just Swansea we are looking at here. It's

not in unreasonably put to people that we want to discuss what Terry

Matthews was talking about as the chair of the City Region Board, and

concept has moved away from the people and more to buildings. Do you

share that view and the view that the deal before us could potentially

be built for people to come rather than for people in the region? It

had to be agreed by the local authorities, ourselves and the UK

Government and almost half of the investment will come from the

private sector. It's an example of what happens when Government call

operate, and the public and the private sector as well. The 11

projects are about creating 11,000 jobs. That's opportunities for

people and that's something that both governments and the local

authorities are confident that happening. Are you confident that

GBA which is about 74% in the Swansea region will increase as part

of the deal, so can you give firm indicators that you and the

Government will be benchmarking the success, what we can expect in

three, five, eight and ten years, with this deal coming forward so we

can mark you and the UK Government and need partners about the rising

GBA levels. So we can see this increasing rather than just sound

bites on redevelopment has happened in the Park. One area where

productivity can be improved is with skills and higher paid jobs. The

lead up asks how we can measure this? Firstly with GVA per head and

GVA compared to the rest of the UK. I Hello and welcome to the

programme. But I'd like more definitive markers to see where GVA

will go from where it is at the moment, 74%. Cardiff have got a city

deal, Swansea has got a city deal and Swansea region, the North Wales

desperately needs a great deal to be delivered. Yesterday, in the

Guardian, you accuse the Prime Minister had a 10-year about

concerns you have around devolution and our role in the UK. One of the

things in North Wales that has come out is the ability for the

Government to devolve responsibility to North Wales so those powers

around transport, skills, business rates, there would be a greater

synergy between the northern powerhouse and North Wales to create

a better driver for economic prosperity in North Wales. Will your

Government actively considered evolving responsibilities, or will

you be showing a Kenya to North Wales for business and council

leaders when they are asking you for business responsibilities. The

Swansea Bay and Cardiff City they deals are driven by local

authorities. Something we seek to impose. The same will pry to the

North Wales growth deal, large urban areas, these are the two deals that

were ready first. In the north-east, that would come next. We would look

to devolve as many powers as we can in the future. In terms of business

rates, it's more difficult because we know there are authorities who

would lose out if these were devolve, and we want this main

decisions are attained locally, meaning local authorities are as

much in the driving seats. And working

I would like to wish the First Minister happy birthday. Age is

nothing to fear, as long as you remain in rude health, like me. The

First Minister will agree, whatever our differing views on Brexit,

uncertainty is to be deprecated and the Prime Minister is about to

resolve one answer by triggering Article 50. It is regrettable that

Nicola Sturgeon has now sought to create another uncertainty over a

referendum in Scotland. No doubt confident the Prime Minister would

refuse a request. I wonder if the First Minister would agree with me

the best way to reduce this uncertainty is to call Nicola

Sturgeon's bluff and hold the referendum? Thank you for the good

wishes. From different perspectives. My view is, and I've said this

publicly, if the Scottish Parliament votes to hold a referendum, the UK

Government should not stand in its way, any more than the European

Commission of Parliament should have stood in the way of the UK holding a

referendum on Brexit. If the Scottish parliament seeks to hold a

referendum, then the views of that parliament should be respected. I

agree with him. It is rarely wrong to consult the people. If there were

to be a referendum campaign, it would have some relevance for Wales

because Scotland has a budget deficit of 15 billion a year,

although it has a larger economy than Wales, it is much the same

figure as we have here. 15 billion deficit. And that is effectively a

transfer of funds from one part of the UK to another, which would

disappear if either Scotland or Wales became politically

independent. It is not my view that independence is in the interests of

Wales. I am aware of the substantial financial transfers that take place.

That come into Wales. That is why I am a strong devolutionist, but not

somebody who supports independence. It is important to all those who

believe in the sovereignty of the United Kingdom that we unite on this

point that Wales would be vastly poorer if it were to leave the

United Kingdom. There is no way that any cut in any budget from a UK

department subsequently devolved to Wales could possibly be compensated

for in any other way. Because public expenditure is now nearly 60% of

Welsh GDP, there would be a massive hit for all poor and vulnerable

people, and all those who rely on the NHS and other social services

for their health and well-being. The case for independence by those who

make it in Wales is not built on the economy but on emotion. It is

important that when the UK leaves the EU, we have in place a structure

that reflects a proper partnership of four nations within the UK. It's

not a case of the UK Government imposing its will on devolved

governments. We also have an independent judiciary process to

police the internal market. For me, that will represent for Wales a very

good outcome. My worry is the UK Government itself doesn't create the

conditions were people feel annoyed enough to take the view that the UK

is not worth preserving. That is not something I want to see. It is clear

that Wales is so wealthy and prosperous the status quo is the

only option for us, isn't it? First Minister, in recent years, there

have been a number of scandals concerning the quality of treatment

or some patients in some wards in the Welsh NHS. How confident are you

that the systems for identifying and correcting problems are no robust

enough to prevent another Princess of Wales style scandal? We are

confident the structures are in place to avoid those scenarios and

robust. One area of treatment where problems have regularly been

identified is nutrition and you -- and hydration. That is a basic

health care need. Yesterday, the Public Accounts Committee released

another report on nutrition. This is five years after the last report on

nutrition. The report found, and I quote, a story of a distinct lack of

leadership, stagnant activity and frustratingly slow progress in the

number of important areas. You claim to have introduced new initiatives

to fix this. I have they not yet succeeded? And what reasons can you

give for the slow progress on hospital nutrition? There is a

formal process for responding to reports. The report highlighted good

progress that had been made in a number of areas. It is hugely

important to have reports such as this to make sure there is as much

improvement as we want to see. How many reports do we need? 9% of

patients were not being given enough water to drink. There are other

areas where progress is nonexistent. No progress on a computerised

information catering service, identified in 2011. Not a single

health board has named director with responsibility for nutrition. Not a

single health board has achieved 100% compliance with nutritional

care pathway training, despite it being mandatory since its

introduction in 2011. What you hear from management is very different to

what we as Assembly Members here from patients and our constituents.

When can we expect to see some leadership from you on hospital

nutrition? When will we get beyond apologies and claims of lessons

learnt, to see that these simple basic problems in the NHS have to be

prevented before they cause a serious harm to some of our

patients? We have already introduced a range of initiatives. We are

considering ways to improve healthy food provision in hospitals even

further, including an upcoming review of the mandatory standards.

There have been huge improvements already achieved by the NHS. The

auditor general in a report says the recognise that two thirds of the

recommendations have been actioned. Must have been done, some have not

yet been done. The auditor general is saying that what is left to do is

the of being done. Will the First Minister provided an update on Welsh

Government plans to create better jobs closer to home? Across

government team is taking forward the programme to better align a

range of commercial projects. It is worth remembering it was in October

2015 the wheels Trades Union Congress launched its excellent

campaign for better jobs closer to home to benefit valleys communities,

such as my constituency. I received a friendly note last week

emphasising that. I was pleased to see the same principles were

contained in the programme for government. I would like to welcome

the speech from yesterday it was recognised regional differences were

addressed. Will the First Minister provide more specifics about the

Welsh Government's approach? Will it tackle economic challenges faced by

those in South Wales, building on existing strengths and the social

capital that exists? The commercial pilots are a start in testing

interventions, to see how they can be as effective as they can. Were

looking to implement a specific strategy regionally in the northern

valleys and across the whole of Wales. There is a ministerial task

force which has been set up across government to address these issues.

The challenges there are differences within the valleys themselves. We

are looking to ensure we can even out economic development and

improvement over the course of the next few years, rather than seeing

some parts of the valleys do well and others less well. Pilot projects

are part of that. The task force is another level. TRANSLATION: All this

means for my constituents is creating quality jobs in North West

Wilts. The Welsh Government is duty bound to show away in this regard to

have deliberate policies to ensure that government jobs are distributed

across Wales. When does the government intend to reform a job

location strategy, to include specific criteria which would lead

to the distribution of Welsh Government jobs in an equal number

across Wales? I would suggest you amend this strategy before the

people of North Wales lose all faith in your strategy? TRANSLATION: We as

a government have moved more jobs out of Cardiff than ever under the

Welsh office. It is not possible to have jobs in every location, but our

record is extremely good, particularly in North Wales. There

are more people working for the Welsh Government in North Wales than

was ever true under the old Welsh office. What about home-working? One

of the problems home workers face in my constituency and in other parts

is pure broadband connectivity. Report last week said some of the

lowest speeds can be found in North Wales. There are still many people

who don't have access to superfast broadband. What are you doing to

hold BT and open reach to account, to make sure they deliver on their

promises and obligations under the scheme? And what action are you

taking to address those 5% of properties which are currently

outside the scope of the scheme, so that those in those areas have the

opportunity to work from home? Many of the 96% of those who have access

to broadband would not have had that without government intervention.

There will be other alternatives which have to be explored. For

example, the use of satellites rather than tables. We are aware of

these areas. We need to ensure the 4% are not forgotten about. I'm

given to understand there are present 175 businesses on lists for

cancel old units in Caerphilly. Some for up to five years. Are there any

government plans to help councils like Caerphilly construct new units

to accommodate such surpluses? Given the fact that obviously there is the

potential to create thousands of jobs closer to home. I'm unaware of

the situation as he describes it. I will write to him on that as it is

specific to that council. We need to avoid a situation where we build

speculatively lot of factory units. Lots of them remained empty in the

1990s. We want to identify existing business is appropriate for

businesses who want them. And to look at where building can take

place where there is demand. Back as part of the economic strategy. What

progress has been made in setting up the Constitutional Convention? I

have been calling for a number of years for this constitutional

convention. The case is now even stronger. This is an important

issue. Would he agree that the unwritten constitution of the UK is

unsustainable in view of leaving the EU and with the threat of a second

Scottish independence referendum? The heart of the problem is

parliamentary sovereignty. All power comes from one place in Westminster.

It has the ability to do whatever it wants. I think there are several

centres of democratic accountability, of which this

assembly is one. For me, the UK has to move more towards a system of

shared sovereignty. It works in Canada. We need to get away from

this idea that somehow everything is subordinate to Westminster. That is

not the model I believe. It might have worked in the 19th century, I

don't think it will work in this century.

Moving forward, we know that the Welsh Government, Plaid Cymru White

Paper has been rejected out of hand by the UK Government. We know the UK

Government has broken its promise to other UK wide approach to EU

negotiations before triggering Article 50. Doesn't bode well ahead

of the repeal Bill and the legislation. The First Minister

could trigger an article, which would bring a continuity bill to

this assembly now to defend the current Welsh constitution from a

power grab from Westminster. There has been no formal response to the

White Paper that we have produced. Secondly, the great reform Bill is

designed to be a bill that will reserve EU law in the jurisdictions

of the UK. The laws of the different parts of the UK. That is all it

does. But we would oppose any suggestion there will be a claw-back

in devolved powers. Or that powers returning from Brussels would sit

through a period of time in Westminster. We would argue against

that strongly. We will not support that if that is proposed as part of

that Bill. I think the problem with the convention as you can only have

one until after a second referendum in Scotland, which at some point in

the future does look a possibility. I just wonder if you're more

immediate aim to be with the Prime Minister to see out the G system

could be strengthened. I commend the remarks on how that might happen,

although not the style he made them. I think he was to course when he

compared it to since I gets community council. He made some

interesting points about how this could be made more robust. Over the

next two years, there is a golden opportunity to restructure the way

in which decisions are taken across the UK. It's no good waiting until

that periods of time has elapsed because then when you find ourselves

in a situation where there is no way to put in place an alternative

system. It means the GMC should evolve into a proper council of

ministers. Where joint decisions are taken in areas which are devolved.

In might be there is merit in having a common fisheries policy for

example. We know when the UK leaves the EU there is the distinct

possibility that state aid rules will no longer apply. In which case,

there will be a free for all in terms of the insider market in the

UK. It is in no 1's interest for there to be a trade war. We want to

put together a set of rules in the UK agreed by the four governments.

And by an independent body to police those rules. The US Supreme Court

performs that function in terms of interstate commerce in the US. And

internal single market without a proper policing of rules is not

working properly and I don't want to see that.

Personally I welcome the initiative the First Minister is showing, but

regarding David's important question, following that fascinating

session speaking to students at the University of South Wales looking

on, if we don't achieve this polarity, what is your prognosis

going forward as we transition to exiting the EU to a very different

framework in the UK, what's your promise if we don't get those

mechanisms in place? There is a danger that the UK will start to

unravel, in particular, one thing that is not often mentioned what is

worth noting is what might cause the rise of English nationalism, leaving

England agreed that the system. This can be dealt with, our four distinct

nationalities, but that means putting in place a structure that

reflects that this is a partnership of nations, rather than believing

that this is something like a unitary state, before it entered the

common market. These issues are resolvable, they need to be resolved

so that when the UK leads the EU, that structure is already in place

in terms of the single market, the council ministers, rather than doing

it in a few years' time and leaving a vacuum. Will the First Minister

make a statement on the Welsh Government's efforts to combat

homelessness in Romney. We have the legislation to help those at risk of

homelessness. My concerns are similar to those raised by Jeremy

Miles, but I have one specific point. I had the opportunity from

January through to this week to volunteer in the wheel winter night

shelter provided by the council in my constituency, and I would like to

thank the council there for providing that night shelter and for

providing selfless volunteers who worked throughout that period to

assist residents there, but perhaps what I was moved by most was the

total hopelessness of people who find themselves homeless now. There

are many people there who are homeless for a number of reasons,

health problems, drug dependency and so forth, but I'm struck by the

number of those who are there because of relationship and family

breakdowns. They didn't have anywhere else to live and it was the

kind of downward spiral. You do need to come to a question. The question

came with a discussion I had between two men who could lift themselves

out of homelessness by joining together to get a place to rent.

They'd... You really need to get to your question. I need to explain.

You've explained your explanation. They couldn't find a guarantor

because they didn't have any access to anyone who could guarantee their

rental with a private landlord, could you, First Minister, gives

some indication about what the Welsh Government could do, possibly

working with local authorities and riders to break down the barriers

that make it difficult for homeless people to secure rented

accommodation. There are many points she has made. People can't get

themselves out of the rut they find themselves in. They can't look the

part for the job because they haven't got any money, they can't

get health or mental health help for problems, or they have addiction.

There are a number of pathways but getting the monster that pathway is

the difficult part. A tailor-made approach to that individual will

work most effectively, but we also face a situation because people have

nowhere to live and can't claim housing benefit because of their

age, and that is something that could have been prevented by the UK

Government. The Conservative Government announced a ?14 million

programme to help those endangered by homelessness, to provide

educational opportunities, helping long-term rough sleepers with poor

mental health and substance abuse, we'll be First Minister find out

what measures can be taken to tackle homelessness in south-east Wales?

There are lots of young people who are homeless because of the UK

Government's decision to not provide housing benefit. They end up living

on the streets as a result of that. That money could have been better

targeted if it had been used in that way. Our supporting people programme

has played its part, we will protect that budget from 2017-2018. We have

distinct approaches to support those in our community most at risk,

ex-service personnel, ex-offenders, trying to help young people avoid

homelessness because of the actions of the UK Government. I would argue

to him that the UK Government is try to catch up with us already. Were

the First Minister -- will the First Minister explain how work is being

supported in south-east Wales, please? This is through... What

about the sub editing hub in Newport which has been raised in this

Chamber before, it has been revealed that the business has been provided

with ?95,000 and ?245,000 to expand its sub editing hub last year, what

conditions apply to these grants and what action would the Welsh

Government take to stop this from happening in Newport? We gave money

to the company to create 115 jobs. That was exceeded, but the award was

conditional on the jobs being in place until May 20 20. If that

condition isn't met then we will look to recoup the money. What is

the Welsh Government doing to help employment practices in chains in

South Wales? We expect the Welsh public sector to improve the

well-being of workers in our supply chain. It's heartening to hear about

the new code of practice within the employment for supply chains in the

public sector. But it's only by working together that we can deliver

a fairer deal for workers in the supply chains in Wales and

throughout the world. Can I seek assurance from you that we will make

this happen in Wales through the long reach of the public sector,

third agencies and others, but reaching deep into other nations,

including developing nations so that our supply chains, including

sourcing overseas do not exploit any work-out, anywhere. It demonstrates

the eradication of illegal practices, based in Wales and

beyond. We need the longest reach possible to ensure that this role is

not just through the public sector but the private one as well, we hope

to raise and level the playing field for ethical businesses. So those who

do so cannot be undercut by illegal methods. Will the First Minister

outline how the Welsh Government is supporting disabled people to remain

active members of their community? We aim to support those in their

communities independently. We will be looking to renew the framework

this year,. I have been dealing with a constituent whose wheelchair went

into repair. He was left without a suitable turn a tip as it this boat.

He has been done unsuccessful in contacting anybody.

Frankly, this is unacceptable. I'm told that waiting time for

wheelchairs is excessive. How can we hope to support disabled people to

remain active members of our community if we can't provide such

basic needs? What are you doing to eliminate this time waiting for

wheelchairs and dealing with the repairs for an ailing person's

support. It's evident that this constituent has gone through a bad

experience. Can I ask you to write to me and I will write back to you

with an explanation. That's it. First Minister's Questions is over.

If you want more coverage, you can go to the Senedd live page. Don't

forget the Wales Report, With Hugh Edwards is on, but from us on the

programme, thanks for watching. Today we're road-testing

the BBC iPlayer Kids app. You just pop in their age

when you set it up and look - all their favourite CBeebies

programmes are in one place. It's a whole family of woolly

mammoths. Wow! Yes! so you can take CBeebies

with you wherever you go. The BBC iPlayer Kids app.

Ready to download now. He believes himself to be

your equal. We would have no quarrel

with Aelfric. I need 200 Christian men

of Bebbanburg. In return,

I shall require the head...