Browse content similar to 17/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, and welcome to Politics Europe, your regular guide to the | :00:00. | :00:44. | |
top stories in Brussels and Strasbourg. On today's programme, | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
the bill allowing Theresa are made to trigger Article 50 is now a law. | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
What will be the next move? How will the EU respond? The head of the EU | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
Commission unveils his blueprint for the EU without Britain. The European | :01:02. | :01:09. | |
Court of Justice rules companies can ban workers from wearing a | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
headscarf. Have people given in the religious discrimination? And waking | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
up is not always easy to do. What can Czechoslovakia's velvet divorce | :01:19. | :01:27. | |
tell us about Brexit? All of that to come and more in the next half-hour. | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
First, our guide to the latest from Europe in just 60 seconds. The Dutch | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, celebrated victory in his country's | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
election, easily defeating Geert Wilders. And there was a diplomatic | :01:47. | :01:55. | |
row with Turkey and Germany. We will never accept a comparison between | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
the Nazis and the current government. The European Court of | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
Human Rights ruled that Hungary unlawfully kept two migrants in a | :02:07. | :02:15. | |
transit zone. The Spanish Foreign Minister says an independent | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
Scotland will have to join the back of the queue for EU membership. | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
Spain's government is worried about the separatist movement in | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Catalonia. The highest court in the EU rules that companies can ban | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
scarves on employees. All employees have to dress neutrally. I am joined | :02:35. | :02:49. | |
by the UKIP and Conservative MPs. Let us look at the EU ruling. On | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
headscarves. What do you think about there? It brings it broadly in line | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
with the UK government, as far as I can work out. You cannot ask a mate | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
with one culture or at religion. You have to look at all equally. -- | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
discriminate. Theresa May said she disapproves at PMQs. She said women | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
have a right to choose how they dress. That is not what the ruling | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
is saying. She is saying she wants to legislate on how people are | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
wearing their clothes. And that is right, but all should be treated | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
equally and fairly. What do you think? We should not be under the | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
jurisdiction of them. Yeah, I got that bit. It is fraught with | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
difficulties. First of all, should a company have a dress code? That is | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
not an unreasonable thing. This is difficult. It means you cannot wear | :03:48. | :03:57. | |
skull caps, Sikh turbans, Christian crosses. What is more pertinent is | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
that you have a covering law for face coverings. You have made an | :04:05. | :04:13. | |
interesting point, can Sikhs not wear their turbans? Not at all. It | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
is giving power to companies to treat all employees fairly. If it | :04:17. | :04:24. | |
said no religious symbols at all of any kind, would that... Would the | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
Sikhs then be in trouble? As I understand it, the turban is part of | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
a religious manifestation for them. They have to justify very clearly | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
why they have made this decision, and if they cannot, then they cannot | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
impose it. An interesting development. We will see what the | :04:47. | :04:53. | |
courts make of it. A lot of the judgement at the end said the | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
details need to be sorted out at a national and local level. Yesterday, | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
the bill enabling Theresa May to activate Article 50 which will allow | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
England to leave the EU got a royal admission. That means they could | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
trigger it at the end of the month. What will happen next? Donald Tusk | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
said the EU will need just 48 hours to respond to the UK with draft | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
guidelines and negotiation. He also said an extraordinary meeting of the | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
EU 27, the EU without the United Kingdom, will take base in April, | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
possibly May, when European leaders will decide a guideline for the | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
negotiating mandate. Only once it is agreed will the official | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
negotiations began, maybe sometime in June or July. Lots of elections | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
getting in the way of this in Europe. The bill above will be top | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
priorities. Both sides need an agreement by October, 2018. Angus | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
Robertson said that. That will leave enough time for the UK and European | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
parliaments to sign off on the terms of the deal. European talks often go | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
well beyond their deadline, of course. If there is no agreement, | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
there is a chance that Britain could, to use the vernacular, "crash | :06:16. | :06:26. | |
out" of the EU. And this man said there was no assessment to his | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
satisfaction. Donald Tusk addressed the issue when he addressed the | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
European Parliament on Wednesday. I want to be clear that and no deal | :06:34. | :06:43. | |
scenario would be bad for everyone. -- A. But above all for the UK. It | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
would leave a number of issues unresolved. We will not be | :06:49. | :06:55. | |
intimidated by the rats. And I can assure you they were not work. -- | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
threats. Our goal is to have a smooth divorce and a good framework | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
for the future. And it is good to know that Prime Minister Theresa May | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
shares this view. Are you surprised, does it matter, that the government, | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
given that it said this could be an option, that no deal would be better | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
than a bad deal, has no sort of game plan what no deal would mean? I... | :07:22. | :07:31. | |
You talked about WTO terms. The big issue is about trade. There is no | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
way you will unravel tens of thousands of EU laws before leaving. | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
But on trade, if they just need to be made a single offer that means | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
they could have continued tariff free trade with goods and service | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
and capital, but no people, because of... The WTO does not govern this. | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
No, it doesn't, but we could offer them that option. It would be in | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
their interest to do it. This decision, they would counsel it, by | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
the way, whether they do this, then Angela Merkel would have to talk to | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
others to say why they were not accepting a deal. There is something | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
that could happen in ten minutes and decided in an afternoon. Argues | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
surprise? That is the principle, it does not tell us the consequences. | :08:19. | :08:27. | |
-- are you surprised? Is economic modelling so discredited after what | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
was said in the Brexit votes that it is not worth the candle? There has | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
to be a positive and constructive case. Right now, front and for most, | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
we must get the best deal. I think certain elements will happen faster | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
than others. I think there will be a multitrack path for the | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
negotiations. Will it be multitrack? Michel Barnier will head up the | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
negotiations on the EU side. One of the things he is saying is that we | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
need to agree on the divorce bill before we talk about the post Brexit | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
relationship between the EU and the UK. The British government, | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
especially David Davis, he is saying that we need to talk about both at | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
the same time. That could be a dealbreaker if the Europeans don't | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
agree to that. The whole thing is fraught with difficulties. The | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
report by the economic and monetary affairs committee has put in all | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
kinds of impediments already. They have a draft which says that the EU | :09:27. | :09:36. | |
will have continued control. The men in charge is Mr Verhofstadt. He is | :09:37. | :09:51. | |
not in charge. Is he not a senior observer? He will be. On behalf of | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
the Parliament. He will have no negotiating role whatsoever. Right? | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
Every single one of those committees is doing that. They want the hardest | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
possible deal imaginable. There is one fair exposition of where we are | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
and what could happen. I don't agree with all of it. But for example, one | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
of the things it says as we are under no legal obligation to pay any | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
money. The House of Lords said that. The Affairs Committee. Is it a | :10:23. | :10:35. | |
dealbreaker to say we need to agree to the deal before we look at what | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
happens afterwards? The first thing you say in a negotiation is put the | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
hardest deal on the table. The bottom line, if it is a dealbreaker, | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
is that the EU need the money from the UK.. Money has become a bigger | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
issue right now. The point is that French farmers will not need money. | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
The last thing they need is the UK walking were from the table. The | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
French farmers will... Let me ask you, do you buy this rather | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
sanguinary brooch that we will have, in effect, the shape of the deal by | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
the autumn of 2018? In all of the summits I have covered, they always | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
go down to the wire. We have already got it in a way. Theresa May will | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
not repeal a single EU law and will not amend a single EU law before we | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
leave. And she will incorporate the entire body of the EU law. What | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
changes? What can be done by 2018? You will end up with a deal... I | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
just mean a timetable, what can be done? They cannot negotiate every EU | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
law by then. It is impossible. Do you think there should be time for | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
the EU Parliament, the British Parliament, the Scottish Parliament, | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
to have a say? Another element is the trade deal itself. That could | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
take longer. The bottom line is the divorce structure and settlement and | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
all of these elements can be mapped out. The easiest thing is what I | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
have described. Very well. We shall see. What is the future direction of | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
Europe if there is a future? Following the shock of Brexit and | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
Donald Trump, will the EU come closer together, or it is the path | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
forward more of this negotiation? We have been looking at the five | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
options laid out in a commission white paper, as Dan Johnson has been | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
finding out. Rome, 60 years ago, when Europe's future was first | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
mapped out. Many of those original principles still guided today, but | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
there have been bumps in the road. And this week, Europe's leaders | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
started discussing a new direction. Europe's future will be one of the | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
discussions ahead of the Rome anniversary. Some expect systemic | :13:00. | :13:09. | |
changes. We will strengthen the role of nations in relation to the | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
communion. But which way to turn? How best to get an agreement? And | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
are they serious about change? I think certainly the Brexit decision | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
has given a push in order to go in this direction. And finally it has | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
also reached the commission and also, you know, some of the other | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
political groups in this house, that we do need to reconsider some of the | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
things and some of the ways that we have done politics in the past in | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
the European Union. So, five options to be considered. Carrying on, | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
essentially nothing changes. Cutting back to nothing but the single | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
market, already effectively ruled out by the commission. Those who | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
want to do more would allow closer integration for some while others | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
moved at their own pace. They could all do less more efficiently. Or | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
they could agree on doing much more together. The leader of Parliament's | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
second weakest group knows what he wants. -- biggest. This is the fifth | :14:09. | :14:21. | |
scenario. The possibility to go on together for more European | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
integration and political integration. The majority of people | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
understand that we need a stronger and more united Europe. | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
It just so happens he was previously a forensic pathologist, which begs | :14:37. | :14:44. | |
the obvious question. I don't think the Europeans made that point. There | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
does seem to be acceptance that Europe has lost its way in recent | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
years. At least there is now a pause to reassess and look for new ways | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
forward. But to actually get anywhere, everyone has to agree on | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
the best route. They are hoping to do that by the end of this year but | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
that could be a tough ask. Jean-Claude Juncker has already | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
discussed his plan to the German Chancellor and Spain's Prime | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
Minister, but some euros diptych to make any of the options. -- | :15:13. | :15:20. | |
eurosceptics. These options are just one option with different degrees. | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
The first one is to keep everything like it is and in fact we are seeing | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
that it is not working. The second one is to focus on the market, but | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
the commission says we don't want that option. The other is the three | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
different degrees of integration, but the point is integration for | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
what? And to do what? Is this the way to actually get people to love | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
Europe again? I think that there needs to be a European movement. We | :15:49. | :15:56. | |
as prose Europeans need to go to the streets again and say, we want this. | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
Because in so many countries there has been his narrative of the | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
European Union being something of the elites, being something top-down | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
and I think we need to say, no, this is not true. The challenge is to get | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
a new momentum and get back on track. All aboard! Even if we don't | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
yet know exactly where we are heading. All except the UK, of | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
course, whatever the new destination is Britain would be along for the | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
ride. You would have thought the prospect | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
of Britain leaving the EU, which is a huge historic event, whether you | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
are for or against it. You would have thought it would concentrate | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
minds in EU, to say, where do we go from here without Britain? But it | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
seems to me that they are as divided as ever on the way forward, is that | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
right? Everyone is pointing a different direction. The plan put | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
forward by Jean-Claude Juncker was interesting. It was a magician's | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
trick with one card sticking out. Everyone seems to like that, if they | :17:01. | :17:11. | |
are in the fast lane. To some extent the Nordics as well. Yes, so you end | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
up with a scenario in which those who are fast tracks see why it is | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
important. The other thing of course is that the elections, we've just | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
had the Dutch election, that has produced a result which I suspect | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
will take a long while to form government now in Holland. We've got | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
the French ones coming up and the Germans. In France that is run by Mr | :17:33. | :17:45. | |
Macron and Germany run by Mr Schultz would have a different direction, | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
then affronts run by Marine Le Pen or continues to be running Germany | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
by Chancellor Merkel. Is that not right? Exactly. They can't sort this | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
out quickly. The most sensible option will be to just concentrate | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
on terror free trade and turning... We want free trade. I don't think we | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
want the rest of it. They won't do that, will they? They won't. | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
Although Jean-Claude Juncker said at the end of his speech that he | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
wouldn't say what his preferred option was, I think most of us | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
guessed it was option five, deep integration all-round. The elections | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
this year are fascinating for a number of reasons, including this. | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
Mr Macron is a strong pro European, that his approach. Mr Schultz is a | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
strong European as well. But in Italy four out of five of the | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
biggest parties are now against the euro. They haven't as yet had an | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
election this year. These Europeans are a different ball game. It is | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
quite difficult to see the way forward, with all these differences | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
of opinion. One thing that seems to bring Europe together right now is | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
discussing Brexit. Curiously enough a lot of these populist movements | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
might not win elections but they are driving the debate on their side. As | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
they did in Holland. So we will see more Eurosceptic elements being | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
front and centre in a lot of these campaigns. The complexion of Europe | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
will change, even if they don't win... Is it that whatever path they | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
take, and it would be a decision because apparently we won't be | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
there, at whatever path Europe takes is it in our interest that given | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
that it is still our biggest market by a long way is it in our interest | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
that it should succeed? I think it is in our interest that it doesn't | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
go into economic meltdown, because that would be very bad for | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
everybody. But of course there is a tremendous disaster on the horizon, | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
which is what happens to the euro. In the report that Jean-Claude | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
Juncker did, he said we have to do something about youth unemployment. | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
In the second paragraph he said, we need to deepen economic monetary | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
union is and I don't understand that one of the biggest causes of the | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
economic problems in Europe is the European currency... He's talking | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
about making the monetary union work more sensibly, with a proper banking | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
union and with of payments from the rich countries. The difficulty with | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
that, given the Dutch elections, is that performing the euro will be | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
more difficult than ever. Absolutely. And it isn't a common | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
problem so there isn't a common solution. There are lots of | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
different problems in different directions, causing problems for the | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
commissioner and all the rest. We could see more parties like Ukip. | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
Divorces can be messy and if you fall out in a big way over the money | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
for example it can make it very difficult to make new arrangements. | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
How can a messy Brexit break be avoided? We have been to the former | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
Czechoslovakia to look at what can be learned from what came to be | :20:52. | :21:04. | |
called the Velvet Divorce. Picture this scene. New Year's Eve, | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
1992, and this square is packed with people celebrating the end of | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
Czechoslovakia and the birth of an independent Slovak Republic in a | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
process known as the Mr Schulz -- 'velvet divorce', so-called because | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
not a single shot was fired. At the castle evidence of where it all | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
started. Signs from the protest that overthrew communism in 1989. | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
Freedom. But the public word as involved in what happens next. The | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
main contender here is the leader Vladimir... The Slovak nationalists | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
was the victor in elections in 1992, and over an intense few weeks he | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
negotiated a split with his counterpart in the richer Czech part | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
of the country. There was no referendum and the divorce followed | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
a simple formula. There are 10 million Czech, 5 million Slovaks, | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
the property was divided two to one. The military was divided in the | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
similar way. Diplomatic services in our embassies were divided very | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
peacefully and we didn't have any border disputes. Because we always | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
had a border between the Czech and Slovak republics, so there were no | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
major fights. Since then, slow Bhatia has joined the EU and | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
flourished, or has it? -- Slovakia. This woman is a member of the former | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
Prime Minister's club with David Cameron and she says the split was | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
not democratic, left the country briefly bankrupt and was harder than | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
people remember. Some of the things were really sort of ten years later, | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
not immediately, not at all. All new state institutions. The president, | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
Parliament, government, justice, constitutional law. All institutions | :22:59. | :23:06. | |
of controlling mechanisms. Everything! For the next generation | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
of politicians, like the economy minister, it is all ancient history. | :23:14. | :23:24. | |
Or geography. I think it is the best partnership. Still good friends? | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
Still good friends. I'm not the only visitor from the UK. David Davis was | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
in town recently as well, could he have spied any lessons for the UK's | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
upcoming divorce? Openly, no lessons. I don't think it will be | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
over in one or two years. The key is to maintain goodwill and maintain | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
good relationships, where you are not playing games and tricks. It is | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
a triumph of nationalism and not much else. The two republics go | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
their separate ways. Watching another famous correspondent who | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
stood on the spot, the lesson I've learned is that separating seems | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
massive at the time but living apart last for much longer. | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
During the Scottish referendum I did a documentary about raking up and be | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
looked at the velvet divorce. Although they are two pretty small | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
countries, and you would think it would be easy, it turned out there | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
were many treaties that had to be done. Raking up is hard to do. Yes, | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
but the lesson is, if you make the decision to go and saw the details | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
out afterwards... That's not really the government's position. The | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
British government's position... It might not make sense. Before we go, | :24:43. | :24:52. | |
we want to see what it means. Other things actually involve us building | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
something fresh. There are couple of elements to this. I believe we can | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
do that if we both enter the discussions in a right frame of | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
mind. Can you look to negotiations in which there is no victor? Can | :25:08. | :25:15. | |
that be done? We can make them an offer they can't refuse and then we | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
all benefit and that seems to be the biggest issue. It would be immensely | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
difficult. Immigration is the next biggest problem. It can be done, we | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
have to keep focused on the outcome and that's a good deal for both | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
sides and that's what people want. Whatever the politicians want | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
remains to seen. We shall see. It will be an interesting time. Thank | :25:35. | :25:42. | |
you both. That's it from Politics Europe. I hope you can join me for | :25:43. | :25:44. | |
the next | :25:45. | :25:46. |