Vice Presidents' Debate live US Presidential Debates

A week after the first Presidential debate between Donald Trump

and Hillary Clinton, tonight, it's the turn

The two men taking to the stage in Farmville, Virginia,

have so far played low key roles in the national campaign.

Mike Pence has the job of steadying Mr Trump's campaign,

while Tim Kaine will try to maintain Hillary Clinton's momentum.

For more on what's at stake, we can cross now to the BBC's

I know you have been talking to the campaigns. How do they believe

tonight's debate can change the dynamic of the presidential race?

Clinton's people were here all day today. They were hammering home the

message that they will talk about a positive vision but all the pressure

is on Mike Pence. He has to write the ship after a bad week for Donald

Trump. He will have to defend Donald Trump's record. They say that

usually a vice presidential debate like this is on the presidents. They

are making a point that Donald Trump has shown he is not fit to be

president. The Donald Trump people have said it is Tim Kaine who will

be on the defensive. This comes after comments from Bill Clinton

earlier today criticising Obamacare and healthcare reform. They think

Timken will have to answer for that. Bill Clinton said it was crazy.

Hillary Clinton's people have had to come out and defend the hikes saying

that Hillary Clinton has to fix healthcare. I would not be surprised

if that is an issue tonight. Donald Trump will not be stage but will be

tweeting it live. This will be about the very few undecided voters. How

do you expect the two men to be seen in their different ways reaching out

to undecided voters? Well, I think they will have to cast as big a tent

as possible. Mike Pence will have to appeal particularly to suburban

women and educated white voters. These people could be Republican

voters and have been in the past but have been straying from the party

because of Donald Trump's rhetoric. Tim Kaine on the other hand will

have to activate the base and really has to appeal to youthful voters.

The island you'll voters and the demographic that was big on Bernie

Sanders. -- millennial. Donald Trump will be tweeting this live. There

are reports his staff will be surrounding him so I would not

expect controversial stuff. Not the 3am cleats we had last Friday.

LAUGHING. How about the tone of this debate? These two men are

gentlemanly and of deep religious faith. How will the tone contrast to

the people at the top of their respective tickets? They are

mild-mannered midwesterners. Tim Kaine is a senator from Virginia but

grew up in the midwest. Both of them have a reputation of being mellow.

His opponent is Conservative. It will be interesting to see how they

go after each other. They will have to attack the top of the ticket. It

will be a challenge to see if they can break out of their more

traditional roles and go on as an attack dog. We will have to wait and

see. Anthony, briefly, what is the mood like there inside? Well, there

is a whole bunch of very important people. You can see them filtering

on down this walkway and piling in on both sides. I think the feeling

is that these candidates have their moment to shine. They have been

waiting a long time in the shadows and this is their chance to take

centre stage. 14 vice presidents went on to become President of the

United States, you have to remember that. Thank you. Anthony Zurcher. We

can go live to be vice presidential debate now which is being moderated

by CBS News. Right now, as we welcome the vice presidents, Tim

Kaine and Mike Pence. APPLAUSE. Thank you. It's an honour.

Nice to meet you. It is nice to meet you as well.

APPLAUSE. Gentlemen, welcome. It truly is a privilege to be with both

of you tonight. I would like to start with the topic of presidential

leadership. 28 years ago tomorrow night, Lord Benson said the vice

presidential debate was not about the qualifications for the vice

presidency, but if tragedy should occur, how the vice president could

step in without any margin for error, without time for preparation,

to take over the biggest job in the world. What about your qualities and

your skills and your temperament equipped you to step into that role

at the moment poll notice? Senator Tim Kaine. It is great to be back at

the university in Farmville, Virginia. This is a special place.

65 years ago, a young courageous woman, Barbara Johns, led a walkout

of her high school. She made history by protesting school segregation.

She believed our nation was stronger together. And that walkout led to

the position that moved us down the path to equality. I am so proud to

be running with another strong history making woman, Hillary

Clinton, to be President of the United States. I am proud because

vision of being stronger together, building an economy that works for

everyone, not just those at the top, and being safe in the world, not

only with a strong military, but also strong alliances to battle

terrorism and climate change, and also to build a community of

respect, just like a bridge once tried to do 65 his again. That is

why I am so proud to be a running mate. Hillary Clinton talked of why

she chose me. She said the test of a Hillary Clinton administrative will

not be the signing all passing of a bill, it will be whether we can make

somebody's life better, a classroom a better learning environment for

her school kids and teachers, whether we can make everything safer

and results. She said to me, you have been a missionary and a civil

rights lawyer, a counsellor and a mayor, a governor, now a US Senator,

I think you will help me figure out how to govern this nation, so that

we always keep in mind that the success of the administration is the

difference we make in peoples lives. That is what I bring to the ticket.

That experience, having served at all levels of government. My primary

role is to be Hillary Clinton's right-hand supporter as she puts

together the best administration possible. I am out of her and I

relish that role. I will say this, me and my wife, we trust her with

the most important thing in our lives, our son who is deployed right

now. We trust her as the man and chief. The thought of Donald Trump

as commander-in-chief scares us to death. Mike Pence. First off, thank

you to you and the university for the wonderful hospitality and the

commission on the presidential basis of. It is humbling to be here. I am

surrounded by my wonderful family. It is an honour to be here with you

as well, Senator Tim Kaine. I also want to say, thank you to everyone

who is listening in the day, who understands what an enormously

important time this is in the life of our nation. For the last 7.5

years we have seen America's place in the world we can and the economy

stifled by more taxes and more regulation and a failing healthcare

reform currently known as Obamacare. The American people know that we can

make a change of. I want to thank all of you for being with us

tonight. Also want to thank Donald Trump for making that call and

inviting us to be part of his team. I have to tell you, I am a smalltown

boy from a place not different from Farmville. I grew up in the backyard

in my farm. We emigrated here with my grandfather's time. We were

living in southern Indiana. We built a big name and a business. We race

day family. I dream some day of representing my hometown in

Washington DC. I never imagined I would get the opportunity to be

Governor of the state that I love, let alone sitting on a table like

this in this kind of position. To answer your question, I would say

that I would hope that if the responsibility ever felt to me in

this role, that I would meet it in the way I have responsibilities

should I be elected as vice president. That will bring a

lifetime of experience to the role, a lifetime growing up in a smalltown

and serving in commerce in the United States where I led a speed

that works, the great State of Indiana. -- state. I would pray to

be able to meet that moment with that lifetime of experience. Senator

Tim Kaine, on the campaign trail, you praised Hillary Clinton's

character, including her commitment to public service, yet 6% of voters

don't think she is trustworthy. Why do so many people distrust to? --

60%. Is because of the e-mails and the Clinton Foundation? This is why

I trust her. This is what people should look like as a public

servant, having a passion in their life that showed up before they were

in public life. They have held onto it whether they were in office not.

Hillary Clinton had the passion from her childhood, living in the suburbs

of Chicago. She was focused on serving others with a special focus

on empowering families with children. As a civil rights lawyer

in the south with the defence fund of children. And Secretary of State

and Senator, no matter what, it has always been about putting others

first. Donald Trump puts himself first. He built a business career

off the backs of the little guy, as he said. As a candidate, he started

his campaign with a speech where he called Mexicans rapists and criminal

them. And he has pursued the discredited and outrageous lie that

President Obama was not born in the United States. It is so painful to

suggest that we go back to the days where an African-American could not

be a citizen of the United States. I cannot imagine how Governor Mike

Pence could defend this selfish style of Donald Trump. Let me ask

you stop EU said Donald Trump is thoughtful, compassionate, and

steady. Yet 67% of voters believe he is risky and 65% say he does not

have the temperament to be president. Why do so many Americans

believe he is so erratic? Let me say first and foremost that you and

Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult in a campaign. It is

really remarkable that at a time when literally, in the wake of

Hillary Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State, when she was the

architect of the Obama administration's foreign policy, we

see anti- portions of the world, including the Middle East, literally

spinning out of control. It is a result of the failed foreign policy

and weak foreign policy brought about. The new and bold and actions

of Russia and the Ukraine... You guys, you have both said but Putin

is a better president than President Obama... I want to get back to it.

Thank you, Senator... You praised President Putin as a good leader. We

do have that coming up here. In the meantime, the question is... It is

about your running mates... At a time of great challenge in the life

of this nation, when we have weakened America's place in the

world and stifled America's economy, the campaign of Hillary Clinton and

Tim Kaine has been an avalanche of insults. Getting to the trustworthy

question, Donald Trump has built a business through hard times and good

times. He has put on an extraordinary business acumen. He

has employed tens of thousands of people in this country... And paid

very few taxes and lost a billion dollars a year. What about the

question? People do not trust Hillary Clinton because they are

paying attention. The reality is when she was Secretary of State,

come on, she had a Lenten foundation accept in money from foreign

governments. You will... Let me talk about this. I am still on my time.

Is this a discussion? Will... Governor... Let me talk and finish

my sentence. They accept foreign contributions from foreign

governments. That was while she was Secretary of State. Well... I get to

weigh in on that. Let me say this. Senator... Please. You have an

opportunity to respond. Mike Pence does not think the world is going

well and will say it is everyone else's fault. Do you? Do you know

Osama Bin Laden was alive during her term? We had 175,000 troops employed

on the battlefield in Afghanistan and Iran was racing towards nuclear

dominance he. Under Secretary Clinton's leadership, she was part

of the public safety team that went after and wiped him off the face of

the Earth. She made a deal with the Russians to reduce the chemical

weapons stockpile and had a tough negotiation around the world to

eliminate the Iriney nuclear weapons programme without firing a shot.

Eliminated? Yes. And we now have 15,000 troops deployed overseas.

To Iraq has been overrun by ISIS. Hillary Clinton failed to negotiate

a status of forces agreement. That is incorrect. And so we removed all

of our troops from Iraq. And ISIS moved into that vacuum and overran

vast areas of Iraq. President Bush said we would leave Iraq at the end

of 2011. Iraq did not want our troops to stay and they wouldn't

give us the protection of our troops. And guess what. If a nation

where our troops are serving does not want us to stay, we are not

going to stay. It was a failure of the Secretary of State. There are a

lot of people wandering in this country about the economy. Let's

turn to the issue of the economy. According to the non-partisan

committee for a responsible Federal Budget, neither of your economic

plans will reduce the growing $19 trillion gross national debt. In

fact, your plans would add even more to it. Both of you were governors

who balanced state budgets. Are you concerned that adding more to the

debt could be disastrous for the country? I think the fact that under

this past administration of which Hillary Clinton is a part we have

almost doubled the national debt is atrocious. I am very proud of the

fact that I come from a state that works. The State of Indiana has

balanced budgets, we cut taxes, we made record investments in education

and infrastructure, I still finished my term with $2 billion in a bank.

That is a little bit different than when Senator Kaine was governor in

Virginia. He tried to raise taxes about $4 billion, he left estate $2

billion in the hole. The state of Indiana cut unemployment and a half.

He is a very fitting running back Hillary Clinton. It is in the wake

of the season where American families are struggling in this

economy, under the weight of higher taxes and Obamacare and the war on

coal and the stifling avalanche of regulation coming out of this

administration, Hillary Clinton and Timken want more of the same. It

really is remarkable -- Senator Kaine. They are advocating $1

trillion in tax increases, which I get that. You tried to raise taxes

in Virginia and were unsuccessful. But $1 trillion in tax increases.

More regulation, more of the same war on coal and more of Obamacare

which even President Bill Clinton calls are Obamacare up crazy plan,

but Hillary Clinton and Senator Kaine want to build on Obamacare.

They want to build it into a single player programme, and for all we

know Hillary Clinton thinks it is a good start. Donald Trump and I have

a plan to get this economy moving again. Just the way it worked in the

1980s, just the way it worked in the 1960s, and that is by lowering taxes

across the board for working families. Ending the war on coal

which is hurting jobs and this economy in Virginia, repealing

Obamacare, Lock stock and barrel, and repealing all the executive

orders that Obama has signed that are stifling economic growth in this

country. We can get America moving again. Put on top of that the kind

of trade deals that will put the American worker first and you have a

prescription for growth and when you get the economy growing, you can

deal with the national debt. When we get back to 3.5 or 4% growth, which

Donald Trump's plant will do, then we will have the resources to meet

our nation 's needs at home and abroad and we will have the ability

to bring down the national debt. Senator Kaine. There is a

fundamental choice for the American electorate, you're hired President

in Hillary Clinton or you're fired president in Donald Trump. Hillary

have a higher plan. The first thing we do is invest in manufacturing

infrastructure and research into clean energy jobs of tomorrow.

Second thing is we invest in our workforce. From pre- kindergarten

education the great teachers to debt free college and tuition free

college for families that make less than $125,000 a year. Third, we

promote fairness by raising the minimum wage so you can't work

full-time and be under the poverty level, and by paying women equal pay

for equal work. Fourth, we promote small business growth, just as we

have done in Virginia, to make it easier to start and grow small

businesses. Hillary and I each grew up in small business families. A

father, who worked in a welding shop, is here tonight. Fifth we have

a tax plan which targets tax relief to middle-class individuals and

small businesses and asked those from the very top who have benefited

as we have come out of a recession to pay more. The Trump plan is a

different plan, it is a you're fired plan. Donald Trump said wages are

too high and both Donald Trump and Governor Pence think we should

eliminate the minimum wage. Governor Pence, when he was in Congress,

voted against raising them minimum wage above $5.15. He has been a

1-man bull walk against minimum wage increases in Indiana. The second

component is massive tax breaks for the very top. Trillions of dollars

of tax breaks from people just like Donald Trump. The problem with this,

Elaine, is that is exactly what we did ten years ago and it put the

economy into the deepest recession, the deepest recession since the

1930s. Independent analysts say the Clinton plan would grow the economy

10.5 million jobs. The Trump plan would cost 3.5 billion jobs. And why

would he do this? His tax plan basically helps him, and if he ever

met his promise and gave his tax returns to the American public like

he said he would, we would see just much his economic plan is really a

Trump first plan. On that point, Governor Pence, the New York Times

recently revealed part of Mr Trump's tax return. Yesterday Mr Trump said

he brilliantly as the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. Does

that seem fair to you? First, let me say I appreciated the you're fired,

you're hired thing, your using a lot of pre- done lines. What you all

heard out there is more taxes. $2 trillion in more spending, more

deficits, more debt, more government. And if you think that is

all working, then you look at the other side of the table. The truth

of the matter is, the policies of this administration, which Hillary

Clinton and Senator Kaine want to continue, have run this economy into

a ditch. We are in the slowest economic recovery since the great

depression. 15 million new jobs? Berra millions more living in

poverty today than the day when Barack Obama was Hillary Clinton by

his side stepped into the Oval Office. We have the lowest... In the

economy improved dramatically in 2014 and 2015. Honestly, Senator,

you can roll out the numbers and the Sunnyside, at people in Scranton

know differently. This economy is struggling. The answer to this

economy is not more taxes, it is not more spending... It is not giving

tax relief to the folks at the top. I am interested to hear whether he

will defend his running mate's not paying taxes. Governor, with all due

respect, the question was whether it seems fair to you that you're

running mate use the tax laws to pay as little tax as possible. This is

probably the difference between Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and

Senator Kaine. And God bless you, career public servants, that's

great. Donald Trump is a businessman, not a career

politician. He actually built a business. The tax returns that came

out publicly this week showed that he faced some pretty tough times 20

years ago. But like virtually every other business including the New

York Times not too long ago, he uses what is called a net operating loss.

We have a tax code, Senator, that actually designed to encourage

entrepreneurship in his country. Why won't he released his tax returns?

We are answering a question about the business thing. His tax return

showed he went through a very difficult time, but he used the tax

code just to whet supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. How

do you know that? You haven't seen his tax returns. Because he has

created a business that's worth billions of dollars. How do you know

that? With regard to him not paying taxes and people saying he didn't

pay tax for years, Donald Trump has created tens of thousands of jobs,

and he has paid payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes... Senator, I

will give you 30 seconds to respond and I have a question on social

Security. Donald Trump started this campaign in 2014 and said if I run

for president I will absolutely release taxes. He has broken his

first promise. It he hasn't broken his promise. He stood on the stage

last week and when Hillary said you haven't been paying taxes he said

that makes me smart. So it not to favour a military, its might not

have the veterans, it is not not to pay for teachers, and I guess all of

us who do pay for those things, I guess we are stupid. Do you get the

deductions are entitled to? I do. Governor Pence had to give Donald

Trump his tax returns to show he was qualified to be vice president.

Donald Trump must give the American public is tax returns to show he is

qualified to be president and he is breaking his promise. Elaine, I have

to respond to this. You get very little time, 20 seconds. Donald

Trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosure, which is what

the law requires. He said he would release is taxes. Senator, he is

going to release his tax returns when the audit is over. Richard

Nixon released tax returns when he was under audit. If you can't beat

Nixon's standard... The people at home cannot understand either one of

you when you speak of each other! I would please ask you to wait until

it is that the other is finished. All right, we're having fun appear.

The issue of social security. In 18 years when the Social Security trust

fund is run out of money you will be 76. The committee for the

responsible Budget estimates your benefits could be cut by as much as

$7,500 per year. What would your administration do to prevent this

cut? First, we're going to protect Social Security which is one of the

greatest programmes that the American government has ever done.

It happened at a time when you would work your whole life, your whole

life, raising your kids, working, Little League coach a Sunday school

teacher, and many would retire into poverty. And Social Security has

enabled people to retire with dignity and overwhelmingly not in

poverty. We have to keep a solvent and we will keep its solvent and we

will look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax cap

upwards in order to do that. Here is what Hillary and I will not do. And

I want to make this very clear. We will never, ever, engage in a risky

scheme to privatise Social Security. Donald Trump wrote a book and he

said Social Security is a 'Ponzi' scheme, and privatisation would be

good for all of us. And when Governor Pence was in Congress, he

was the chief cheerleader for the privatisation of Social Security.

Even after President Bush stopped pushing for it, Governor Pence kept

pushing for it. We are going to stand up against efforts to

privatise Social Security, and we will look for ways to keep it

solvent going forward, focusing primarily on the payroll tax cut.

Governor Pence, I will give you an opportunity to respond. Thanks,

Elaine. There they go again. Look at... What Donald Trump and I have

said about Social Security is we are going to meet our obligations to our

seniors. We are going to be the odd legations of Medicare. That is what

this campaign is really about, Senator. This is the old scare

tactic that they roll out. You have record, governor. And I get all of

that. There was a question that you asked a little bit earlier... I have

to go back to. Well, look, you are running with Hillary Clinton, who

wants to raise taxes by $1 trillion, increase spending by $2 trillion.

And you say you are going to keep the promises of Social Security.

Donald Trump and I are going to cut taxes, we are going to... You are

not going to cut taxes. So we can meet the obligations were Social

Security and Medicare. If we stay on the path your party has a song, we

are going to be in a mountain range of debt and we are going to face

hard choices. You asked this question about debt and the debt

explosion on the Trump plan is much bigger than anything on the Clintons

side. Let me move on to the issue of law enforcement and race relations.

Law enforcement and race relations. After the Dallas police shooting,

police chief David Brown said, quote, we are asking cops to do too

much in this country. Every societal failure, we put it on the cops to

solve. Not enough mental health funding, not enough drug addiction

funding, schools fail, let's give it to the cops. Do we asked too much of

police officers in this country, and how would you specifically address

the chief's concerns? I think that is a very fair comment. We put a lot

on police officers. I have a lot of scar tissue and experience in this.

I was a city councillor in Richmond and we had one of the highest

homicide rates in the United States. We fought very hard and because of

my time in local office within the police Department, and we reduced

our homicide rate nearly in half and when I was Governor we worked hard

as well. And we did something we had really wanted to do. For the first

time ever we cracked the top ten safest states, because we worked

together. Here is what I learned as a man and the Governor. The way you

make communities safer and way you make police safer is through

community policing. You build the bonds between the community and the

police force. Build bonds of understanding. And then, when people

feel comfortable in their communities, that gap between police

and the communities they serve narrows, and when that gap narrows

it is safer for the communities and safer for the police. That model

still works across our country, but there are some other models that

don't work. An overly aggressive, more militarised model. Donald Trump

recently said we need to do more stop and frisk around the country.

That would be a big mistake, because it polarises the relationship

between the police and the community. So here is what we will

do. We will focus on community policing, we will focus on... And

Hillary Clinton has rolled out a really competent if mental health

reform package that we will worked on with law enforcement

professionals, and we will also fight the scourge of gun violence in

the United States. I am a gun owner, I am a strong second amendment

supporter, but I've got a lot of scar tissue because when I was

Governor in Virginia there was a horrible shooting at Virginia Tech,

and we learn through that painful situation that gaps in the

background record check system could have prevented that crime. We are

going to work to do things like close background record checks and

if we do we won't have the tragedy is that we did. One of those killed

at Virginia Tech was a 70 plus -year-old Romanian Holocaust

survivor. He had survived the Holocaust, then he survived the

soviet union takeover of his country, but then he was a visiting

professor at Virginia Tech and he couldn't survive the scourge of gun

violence. We can support the second Amendment and do things like

background record checks that make us safer, and that will make police

safer as well. My uncle was a cop in Chicago. He

was my hero. When we visit my dad's family in Chicago we would marvel at

him, me and my three brothers. We would say police officers are the

best of us. Men and women, white, African American, Asian, Hispanic,

they put their lives on the line every single day. Let me say that,

at the risk of... At the risk of agreeing with you, community

policing is great. Donald Trump and I want to make sure we have the

resources and tools to be able to restore will and order to the cities

and communities of this nation. That is probably why the 330,000 members

of the fraternity order of the police supported Donald Trump as the

next president because they see his commitment to them and law and

order. They also hear the badmouthing that comes from people

that seize upon tragedy in the wake of police action shootings as a

reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit

bias or institutional racism. And that really has got to stop. I mean,

when an African-American police officer in Charlotte, an all-star

football player who went to LIberty University, and joined the force of

Charlotte, he was involved in a police action shootings taking the

life of Keith Lamont Scott that was a tragedy. We mourn for those and

grieve and are saddened at the loss of life. But Hillary Clinton

referred to that moment as an example of implicit bias in the

police force. When she was asked in the debate a week ago whether there

was implicit bias in law enforcement, her only answer was

there was implicit bias in everyone in the United States... And I

explained that... We have to stop seizing on moments of tragedy. We

need a transparent investigation whenever there is a loss of life

because of police action. But, senator, please, enough of this

seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making

accusations that there is implicit bias whenever tragedy occurs. People

should not be afraid to bring up bias in law enforcement. I am not

afraid to bring that up. If you are afraid to have that discussion you

will never solve that. We agree this is a heartbreaking example. The die

who was killed in Saint Paul. He was a worker, a valued worker in a local

school. And he was killed for no apparent reason in an incident that

will be discussed and investigated. But when people went and explore the

situation what they found was that the... They called him Mr Rogers in

the school. The children loved him. Police stopped him 40- 50 times

before that fatal incident. African Americans in this country get

sentenced for the same crimes at different rates. We need justice

reform... That we do. But I want to say that we should be able to bring

up bias in the system. Otherwise we will never solve the system

problems. Those involved in a police action shootings on the an

African-American, white would Hillary Clinton accused that

African-American... I can't believe that you are saying there is no

bias. I have a question on that point. Senator Tim Scott, who with

African American, recently spoke on the Senate floor. Said he was

stopped seven times by law enforcement in one year. He said I

have sold the anger and frustration and sadness of the humiliation that

comes with feeling like you are being targeted for nothing more than

being just yourself. -- felt. What would you say to Senator Scott about

his experience? I have the deepest sympathy for him and he is a close

friend. What I would say is that we need criminal justice reform

nationally. I signed criminal justice report in the State of

Indiana and we are proud about that. I worked when I was in Congress

about a Second Chance Act We need a better job of recognising and

correcting the error is in the system that you reflect

institutional bias and criminal justice issues. -- do. But what

Donald Trump and I are saying is let's not have the reflects of

assuming the worst of men and women in law enforcement. We truly believe

that it is... Well... What would you say to Senator Scott? Law

enforcement in this country is a force for good. They are truly

people who put their lives on the line every single day. But I would

suggest to you we need to assert a stronger leadership at a national

level to support law enforcement. You just saw Senator Tim Kaine

reject stop and fresco. Those living in inner cities that are besieged by

crime... What would you tell Senator Scott? I have heard that eloquent

plea. Criminal justice system about respecting the law and being

respected by the law. It is a respect issue. I want to talk about

the tone. Donald Trump during this campaign has called Mexicans rapists

and criminals and he has called women slobs and dogs and they are

disgusting, which I don't like saying in front of people. The

attack a Federal judge saying they were unqualified in a photo role

lawsuit because it parents were Mexican. -- he attacked. He went

after John McCain, a POW, and said he was not a hero because he was

captured. And he perverted a lie about President Obama not being

American. You cannot have someone at the top like this. I cannot believe

that Mike Pence will defend this in sort driven campaign that he is

running. -- insult. Now, immigration. You're running mates

have both said that undocumented immigrants who have committed

violent crimes should be deported. What would you tell the millions of

undocumented immigrants who have not committed violent crimes? Donald

Trump has laid out a plan to end legal immigration once and for all

in this country. We have been targeted to death for 20 years.

Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine want to continue this campaign of

Amnesty, century cities, all of the things that are driving wages down

in this country. -- sanctuary cities. And often, it is bringing

heartbreak with criminal immigrants in this country. Donald Trump has a

plan which he laid out in Arizona that will deal systematically with

illegal immigration, beginning with border security and internal

security. It is the first time in Immigration and Customs enforcement

that they have supported Donald Trump. He has laid out a priority to

remove criminal aliens and have these are checks. Once we have

accomplished all of that which will strengthen our economy and

strengthen the rule of law in the country and make communities safer

once the criminal aliens are round the more we will deal with those

that remain. But I have to say, I was listening to the avalanche of

insults coming from Senator Tim Kaine... These were Donald Trump...

Well... Hold on a second, it is my turn. It is your turn. I forgive

you. He called it an insult-driven campaign. Did you hear that? Our

campaign is an insult-driven campaign? Have you heard anything

like it? Donald Trump may have said some insults but Hillary Clinton

said half our supporters are a basket of deplorable is. She said

they were irredeemable and not American. It is extraordinary. She

laid one after another -ism on millions of Americans who believe we

can be stronger at home and abroad and can end illegal immigration once

and for all. So, Senator Tim Kaine, this campaign, that is small

potatoes compared to Hillary Clinton's insults. The very next day

she said she should not have said that. So now we are even. Look for

Donald Trump apologising to John McCain for saying he was not a hero?

Did he apologise for calling women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting? It is

his two minutes. Did Donald Trump apologise for taking on someone in

the Twitter world and calling her overweight, saying African-Americans

are held, saying President Obama is not American? You will never see him

apologise. Immigration, Hillary Clinton and I believe in

comprehensive immigration reform. He believes in a deportation nation.

Choose your choice. Reform that will keep families together as the top

goal. Second, it will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are

violent. Third, more border control, and a path to citizenship is the

fourth for those you pay taxes and work hard and take background record

checks. That is the proposal. Donald Trump proposes to deport 60 million

people, 11 million here without documents. Both Donald Trump and

Mike Pence want to get rid of birthright citizenship. If you are

born here but don't have documents for your parents, they want to

eliminate that, 4.5 million people. They called it deportation forced.

They want to go house-to-house, schools and school, business to

business, and kick out 16 million people. I cannot believe... That is

nonsense. I can't believe Mike Pence would defend his running mate's

claim we should have a deportation force so they will all be gone. We

have a deportation force, Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

The union for Immigration and Customs Enforcement for the first

time in their history have endorsed the Donald Trump to be the next

President of the United States. Senator, that is nonsense. What you

just heard is they have a plan for open borders, Amnesty... Our plan is

like the plan of Ronald Reagan from light and 86. We know the routine.

It is Amnesty. You heard one of the last things he mentioned, border

security. That is how Washington always plays it. Please... Governor

pence was against it. Donald Trump has said... A nation without borders

is not a nation. Donald Trump wants to restore the borders of this

nation. How would the millions of undocumented immigrants leave? Would

be be forced out? Donald Trump laid out a series of orders that begins

with border security. After we secure the border and not only build

a wall but beneath the ground and in the air do internal enforcement, we

will focus on criminal aliens. We just had a conversation about law

enforcement and we just had a conversation about the violence in

our cities. The reality is that there is heartbreak and tragedy that

is striking American families because people that came into this

country illegally are now involved in criminal enterprise in activity

and we don't have the resources or the will to deport them

systematically. Donald Trump said he will move those people out and

people who have overstayed their visas, we are going to reinforce the

law of this country. We will strengthen Immigration and Customs

Enforcement with more personnel to be able to do that. And then Donald

Trump has made it clear that once we have done all of those things, we

are going to reform the immigration system that we have where people can

come into this country. That is the order in which you should do it.

Border security, removing criminal aliens. Upholding the law. Then,

Senator Tim Kaine, when you go back to the Senate, we will work with you

to reform the immigration system. I look forward to working together

whatever capacities we serve in. But want to make it clear, he is trying

to change what Donald Trump said. Donald Trump looked the audience of

Phoenix in the eye and said we are building a wall and are deporting

everybody and he said they will all be gone. You could just go to the

tape on it and see what Donald Trump has said.

And to add to it, we are a nation of immigrants. Governor Pence and I are

both from immigrant families. Some people said some not so nice things

about the Irish when they came but we have done well by absorbing

immigrants and it has made our nation stronger. When Donald Trump

has said Mexicans are rapists and criminals, Mexican immigrants, he

said that his judge was unqualified, unqualified to hear a case because

his parents were Mexican. I can't imagine how you could defend that. I

would like to shift now to the threat of terrorism. Do you think

the world today is a safer or more dangerous place than it was eight

years ago? Has the terrorist threat increased or decreased? The

terrorist threat has decreased in some ways, because Bin Laden is

dead, and Irani and nuclear weapons programme has stopped, the threat

the United States troops has decreased, because there are only

15,000 deployed, but other parts of the world are challenging. To be

terrorism there is only one candidate who can do it, and it is

Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton was the Senator from New York on 9/11,

she was at the World Trade Center when they were searching for victims

and survivors, that seared upon her the need to be terrorism. And she

has a plan to do it. She was part of the National security team that

wiped out Bin Laden. Here is her plan to defeat ISIS. First we need

to take out their leaders on the battlefield. She was part of the

team that got Bin Laden and she will be part of the team that gets ahead

of ISIS. We have to disrupt their financing networks, disrupt their

ability to recruit on the internet in their safe havens, at fourth, we

also have to work with allies to share and surge intelligence. That

is the Hillary Clinton plan, and she has the experience to do it. Donald

Trump can't start a Twitter war with Miss Universe, without shooting

himself in the foot. He doesn't have a plan. He said I have a secret

plan, and then he said I know more than all the generals about ISIS,

and then he said I am going to call the generals to help me figure out a

plan, and finally he said I'm going to fire all the generals. He doesn't

have a plan, but he does have dangerous ideas. Here are four. He

trashed talks the military, John McCain is no hero, the generals need

to be fired and I know more than them. He wants to tear up alliances.

Nato is obsolete and we will only work together with Israel if they

paid big league. Third, he loves dictators. He has a personal rout --

Mt Rushmore, Gaddafi, Hussein, Putin... And lastly, Donald Trump

believes the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons.

He said Saudi Arabia should get them, Japan should get them, Korea

should get them, and when he was confronted with this and told wait a

minute, terrorists could get those, proliferation could lead to nuclear

war, Donald Trump said, and I quote, go ahead, folks, enjoy yourselves. I

would like to hear Governor Pence tell me what is so enjoyable or

comical about nuclear war. Did you work on that one long-time? To Mac

that had a lot of really creative lines in it. Let's see if you can

defend any of them. I can make it very clear to the American people.

After travelling millions of miles as our Secretary of State, after

being the architect of the foreign policy of this administration,

America is less safe today than it was the day that Barack Obama became

president of the United States. It is absolutely inarguable. We have

weakened America's place in the world. It has been accommodation of

factors, but mostly it has been a lack of leadership. I will give you,

and I was in Washington, DC on 9/11, I saw the clouds of smoke rising

from the Pentagon. I was in Virginia. We all live through that

day as a nation, it was heartbreaking and I want to give

this president credit for the bringing Osama Bin Laden to justice,

but the truth is, Osama Bin Laden led Al Qaeda. The primary threat

today is ISIS and because Hillary Clinton failed to renegotiate a

status of forces agreement which would have allowed some American

combat troops to remain in Iraq and secure the hardfought gains the

American soldier had one by 2009, ISIS was able to be literally

conjured up out of the desert. It has overrun vast areas, that the

American soldier had one in operation Iraqi Freedom. My heart

breaks for the likes of the lance corporal who fell in 2005 in

Falluja. He fought hard through some of the most difficult days in

operation Iraqi Freedom, and he paid the ultimate sacrifice to defend our

freedom and secure that nation. And that nation was secured in 2009, at

Dick is Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama failed to provide a status of

forces agreement and leave sufficient forces in there, we are

back at war. The President has just ordered more troops on the ground.

We are back at war in Iraq and the young man, whose mum would always

come to events in Newcastle, Indiana, to see me, would always

give me a hug and state we are never going to forget your son and we

never will. The sacrifices the American soldiers were made were

squandered in Iraq because the American leadership created a

situation which allowed ISIS to thrive. $150 billion to the mullahs,

you didn't stop the nuclear weapons programme. Yes, we did. Even the

Israeli military says it stopped. You have guaranteed they will become

a nuclear power, because there are no limitations once the treaty comes

off. Governor Pence has proposed extreme vetting from parts of the

world which support terrorism, but that does not address many of the

recent attacks in the United States such as Orlando nightclub massacre

and the recent bombings in New York and New Jersey. Those were

home-grown, committed by US citizens and legal residents. What specific

tools would you use to prevent those kinds of attacks? I think it is a

great question, Elaine. But it really does begin with us reforming

our immigration system and putting the interests, particularly the

safety and the security of the American people, first. Donald Trump

has called for extreme vetting for people coming into this country so

that we don't ring people into the United States who are hostile to our

Bill of Rights and freedoms, who are hostile to the American way of life,

but Donald Trump and I are committed to suspending the Syrian refugee

programme, and programmes and emigration from areas of the world

that have been Komla Mize by terrorism. Hillary Clinton and

Senator Kaine want to increase the Syrian refugee programme by 500,000.

The question is about home-grown terrorism. But first let's make sure

we are putting safety and security of American people first instead of

Hillary Clinton expanding... Or instead of you violating the

Constitution by blocking people based on a national origin rather

than whether they are dangerous. That is absolutely false. That is

what the seven circuit decided. We have different views on refugee

issues and on immigration. Hillary and I want to do enforcement based

on our people dangerous? These guys say all Mexicans are bad, and with

respect to refugees, we want to keep people out of our dangerous. Donald

Trump said keep them out if they are Muslim. Governor Pence put a

programme in place to keep them out if they are from Syria and yesterday

an appellate court with three Republican judges struck down the

Governor Pence plan and said it was the Scrivener Tory. You should focus

upon danger, not upon discrimination. Low Mac those judges

said it was because there wasn't any evidence yet that ISIS had

infiltrated the United States. Germany just arrested three Syrian

refugees... They told you there was a right and wrong way to do it. If

you are going to be critical of me on that, that is fair game. After

two Syrian refugees were involved in the attack on Paris which is called

Paris's 9/11, as Governor of the state of Indiana, I have no higher

priority than the safety and security of people from my state. So

I suspended that programme, I stand by that decision and if I am vice

president and Donald Trump is president, we are going to put the

safety and security of the American people first. Can we just be clear,

Hillary and I will do immigration enforcement and that refugees based

on whether they are dangerous or not. We won't do it based on the

Scrivener netting against you from the country you come from all the

religion that you have. That is completely antithetical to the

values of equality. The director of the FBI and Homeland Security said

we can't know for certain who these people are, coming from Syria. If we

don't know, we don't let them in. If we don't know who they are, we don't

let the men. The FBI and Homeland Security said we can't know for

certain. You have to err on the side of the safety and security of the

American people. By trashing all Muslims? Senator Kaine, let me ask

you this. Secretary Clinton has talked about an intelligent search.

Yes. What exactly would an intelligent surge look like and how

would that identify terrorists with no established connection to an

international organisation? Intelligence urges two things. It is

first dramatically expanding our intelligence capacities by hiring

great professionals, and we have some of the best employers in the

world working for many of our private sector company so it

involves increasing our workforce but striking great partnerships with

some of our cyber and Intel expert in the private sector so we can,

consistent with constitutional principles, gather more intelligent

but the second piece of this is really important. It also means

creating stronger alliances. Because you gather intelligence and then you

share your intelligence back and forth with allies, and that is how

you find out who may be trying to recruit, who may be trying to come

from one country to the next, alliances are critical. That is why

Donald Trump's claimed that Nato is obsolete, and that we need to get

rid of Nato, is so dangerous. He said Nato is obsolete. If you put

aside your alliances, who can you share your intelligence with?

Hillary Clinton is a Secretary of State who knows how to build

alliances. She built the sanctions regime around the world that stop

you running a nuclear weapons programme and that is what the

intelligence service needs. Better skill and capacity, but also better

alliances. I would like to turn to the tragedy in Syria. Can I speak

about the cyber security surge? You can have 30 seconds, Governor.

Firstly, Donald Trump just spoke about this issue this week. We have

got to bring together the best resources in the country to

understand that cyber warfare is warfare with the asymmetrical

enemies we face as a country, and I look forward to working with you in

the Senate to make sure we resource that effort. We will work together

in whatever roles we inhabit. I will also tell you that it is important

in this moment to remember that Hillary Clinton had a private server

in her home that had classified information on it about drone

strikes, e-mails from the president of the United States of America were

on there, her private server was subject to being hacked by

foreigners. Governor, I would like to ask Syria. 250,000... The

investigation concluded that not one reasonable prosecutor would take any

additional step. You don't get to decide the rights and wrongs of

this. We have a justice system that does that, and a Republican FBI

director did an investigation and concluded. 250,000 people, 100,000

of which are children... That is absolutely false, and you know that,

Governor. The FBI did an investigation and they concluded

that no reasonable prosecutor would take it further. Senator Kaine,

Governor Pence, please. I want to turn out to Syria. 250,000 people,

100,000 of them children, are under siege in Aleppo, Syria. Bunker

Buster Bonds and incendiary weapons are being dropped on them by Russian

and Syrian military is. Does the US have a responsibility to protect

civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale? The United

States of America needs to begin to exercise strong leadership, to

protect the vulnerable citizens and over 100,000 children in Aleppo.

Hillary Clinton's top priority when she became Secretary of State was

the Russian reset. The Russian reset. After the Russian reset, the

Russians invaded Ukraine and took over Crimea. And the small and

bullying leader of Russia is now dictating terms to the United

States, to the point where all the United States of America, the

greatest nation on Earth, just withdraws from talks about a

ceasefire, while Vladimir Putin puts a missile defence system in Syria,

marshalling his forces. We have got to begin to lean into this with

strong, broad shouldered American leadership. It begins by rebuilding

our military. The Russians and the Chinese have been making enormous

investments in the military. We have the smallest navy since 1916. We

have the lowest number of troops in the end of the Second World War. We

have got to work with the Congress, and Donald Trump, to be able to

rebuild our military and project American strength in the world. But

about Aleppo and about Syria. I truly do believe that what America

ought to do right now is immediately establish safe zones so that

families and vulnerable families with children can move out of those

areas. Work with our Arab partners, real-time, right now, to make that

happen. And secondly, I just have to tell you that the provocations by

Russia need to be met with American strength. And if Russia chooses to

be involved and continue, I should say, to be involved in this barbaric

attack on civilians in Aleppo, the United States of America should be

prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the Assad

regime. To prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking

place in Aleppo. There is a broad range of other things that we ought

to do as well, we ought to deploy a missile defence shield to the Czech

Republic and Poland, which Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama on out of

not wanting to offend the Russians back in 2009. We have just got have

American strength on the world stage, and when Donald Trump becomes

president of the United States, the Russians and other countries in the

world will know they dealing with a strong American president.

Hillary Clinton and I agree on the Aleppo bases. That it would be a

good idea. Hillary Clinton also has the ability to stand up to Russia in

a way that this ticket does not. Donald Trump again and again has

praised Vladimir Putin and it is clear he has business dealings with

Russian oligarchs connected to Vladimir Putin. His team had to be

fired a month ago because of those shadowy connections with forces pro

Vladimir Putin. He said that Vladimir Putin is a better leader

than Barack Obama. Vladimir Putin has run his economy into the world.

If you don't know the difference between dictatorship and leadership

you have to go back to a fifth-grade civics class. What offends me,

what... He just offended me. He said that Donald Trump will rebuild the

military. Know he won't. He is avoiding paying taxes. The story,

the New York Times story, suggested that he probably did not pay taxes

for about 18 years starting in 1985. That included the use of 9/11. Get

this. 9/11, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump's hometown was attacked

with the worst terrorist attack in the history of the United States.

Young men and women, young men and women, signed up to 70 military to

fight terrorism. Hillary Clinton went to Washington to rebuild her

city and help first responders. Donald Trump was fighting a

different fight. A fight to avoid paying taxes that he would not fight

terrorism. This is important. He would not support... He would not

support the troops. He would not support veterans. He would not

support teachers. That is very important. The notion is we have to

create a humanitarian zone in law the Syria. That is important. Mike

Pence, you mentioned a no-fly zone. Where would you set up a safe zone?

How would you keep it safe? Donald Trump supporters are troops and

veterans... He won't pay taxes. He has paid all the taxes he... Do you

not tick the boxes? How does it work? It is about our troops. I

understand why you want to change the subject. Let me be clear on the

Russian thing... Do you think Donald Trump... We have to stick to the

question. What we are dealing with is that there is an old proverb that

the Russian bear does not die, it just hibernates. The truth of the

matter is we can talk about this policy of the Hillary Clinton and

Barack Obama, it has awakened and aggression in Russia that appeared a

few years ago with the move in Georgia, now Crimea, now into the

wider Middle East. And all the while, all we do is bowled out arms

and say we are not having talks any more. -- fold. To answer this

aggression we need American strength and to marshal allies in the region.

We need to act and act now to get people out of harm's way. How would

the safe zones work was blue they would have to be, as the Senator

said, there is already a framework for this recognised by the

international community. The United States of America needs to be

prepared to work with allies in the region to create a safe passage and

protect people in those areas, including with eight no-fly zone.

This is tough stuff. I served on the Foreign Affairs Committee. I

travelled in and out of that region for ten years. Eyes is all operation

Iraqi freedom. -- I saw. To see her feckless leadership... Let me come

back... It is troubling... He does not want to acknowledge that we

stopped the Irani are clear weapons programme. That we were part of the

team that got some of Bin Laden. He does not want to acknowledge that it

is a good thing, not a bad thing, that we are down from 175,000 troops

deployed overseas to 15,000. Let me tell you what will make this

dangerous. Donald Trump's idea we should give nuclear weapons to

everyone. Reagan said something about nuclear proliferation back in

the 1980s. Some full or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. --

fool. That is what Mike Pence is. He is exactly what Ronald Reagan is

talking about. That is below even what you have done before with

Hillary Clinton. That is pretty low. Do you think giving Iran niggle

weapons will make us safer? Ronald Reagan said the United States of

America needs to make investments in modernising the Defence Force. Let

me go back... Let me go back to Iran. He keeps saying that the

Hillary Clinton, who started the deal with the Iranians, prevented

Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. That is... That is what the Joint

Chief of Staff is are saying. That is not what Israel thinks. I know

you boycotted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech. The

point is, what this so-called Iran deal did was essentially

guaranteed... When was in Congress, I fought hard on a bipartisan basis

with Republican and Democrat workers to move forward the toughest

sanctions literally in the history of the United States. We were

bringing them to heel. But the goal was always that we would only lift

the sanctions if Iran permanently renounced their nuclear... Let me...

Let the finish the sentence. They have not renounced their nuclear

ambitions. When the deal's period runs out there is no limitation on

them obtaining weapons. Senator... $1.7 billion in ransom payment. We

needed talk about Russia. Six times tonight I have said to Governor

pence I cannot imagine how you can defend your position on one issue

after the next. And in all six cases he has refused to defend. Let me...

And yet, he is asking everyone to vote for somebody that he cannot

defend. And I think that underlines... Gentlemen, let us talk

about Russia. I will give you an opportunity to do what you are

doing. They think more nations should get nuclear weapons. You

never said that... Gentlemen, Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine and

Crimea and provided support to Bashar al-Assad's race in. What

steps if any would you take to counter these actions? -- regime.

You need to get tough on Russia. We will start by not raising Vladimir

Putin as a great leader. Donald Trump and Mike Pence have said so.

No we haven't. Donald Trump has business dealings with Russia that

he refuses to disclose. Hillary Clinton went to deter with Russia as

Secretary of State to reduce their nuclear stockpile. -- toe-to-toe.

She went toe-to-toe in large protest with Crimea. We have would punishing

economic sanctions on Russia that we need to continue. Donald Trump on

the other hand did not know Russia had invaded Crimea. He was on a TV

show the other day and said, I guarantee this, Russia is not going

into the Ukraine. He had to be reminded they went on to the Crimea

two years before. Hillary Clinton has gone toe-to-toe with Russia to

work out a deal on NewStart and talked to them in a meaningful way

to cap Iran's weapon's programme. You have to have the ability to do

that. Hillary Clinton does. On the other hand, in Donald Trump, you

have someone who always braces Vladimir Putin. -- praises. People

should be worried about Donald Trump who has a campaign manager who has

ties to Russia and needed to be fired. When Donald Trump is sitting

down with Vladimir Putin, is it going to be America's bottomline or

Donald Trump's bottom line he will be worried about with business

deals? This could be solved if he would release his tax returns as he

told the American public he would do. I know he is laughing at this.

What does this have to do with Russia? Every president since

Richard Nixon has done it and Donald Trump is set on doing business with

Russia. The only way we will see if he has a conflict... Senator, your

crime -- time is up. Thank you. I am just trying to keep up with the

insult-driven campaign. I am just saying facts about your running

mate. Don't put words in my mouth. I am happy to defend him. Most of what

you said is completely false and the American people know that...

Senator, please. This is the alternative universe in Washington

DC versus reality. Hillary Clinton said her number one priority was a

reset with Russia. That reset involved the invasion of the

Ukraine. These little green men, Russian soldiers dressing up like

Ukrainian dissidents, then they moved all the way in the Crimea and

took over the Crimean peninsula. Donald Trump said it was going to

happen again. He knew it happened. That is what happened. You have the

rise of aggressive Russia. That is trying to increase its influence in

Iran. Because of this deal, it is on a pathway into the future to obtain

nuclear weapons. The response to terror in the world in Iran now has

a closer working relationship with Russia because of Hillary Clinton

and Barack Obama's foreign policy. $150 billion in sanctions all being

lifted. And then, of course, Syria. It is extraordinary. Syria is

imploding. You just asked every thought for question about the

disaster in Aleppo. Islamic State is headquartered in Raqqa. Senator Tim

Kaine still sits here with a loyal soldier attitude, I get all that,

but saying the foreign policy of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama

somehow made the world more secure, it really is astonishing. On the day

that Iran released four American hostages, it delivered $400 million

in cash as a ransom payment four Americans held by the radicals in

Tehran. Donald Trump said that Russia has no respect for Hillary

Clinton. Why will they respect Donald Trump? Strength. Business

dealings. That is nonsense. Donald Trump's sciences... This whole

Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin thing. America is stronger than

Russia, 16 times larger than the Russian economy. America's political

system is superior to the cronyism and corruption system they have in

every way. When Donald Trump and I observed that as I said in Syria and

Iran and Ukraine that the small and bullying leader of Russia has been

stronger on the world stage then this administration, that is stating

painful facts. That is not an endorsement of Vladimir Putin. That

is an indictment of the week and feckless leadership of the Clinton

and Barack Obama. You can go to the tape. Donald Trump said that but

Mayor Putin is a better leader. That is inaccurate. He has been stronger

on the world stage. He said leader. I will see this. If you mistake

leadership for dictatorship and you cannot tell the difference, a

country that is running its economy into the ground... Is this the great

school thing again? You should not be Commander-in-Chief. When Donald

Trump's son says they have dealings with Russia, those can be disclosed

in tax returns that they refuse to disclose. Donald Trump will be

looking out for himself, not America. What went wrong with the

Russian reset? Vladimir Putin. He is a dictator.

Vladimir Putin is a dictator, he is not a leader. Anyone who thinks

otherwise doesn't know Russian history and doesn't know Putin. John

McCain said I look in his eyes and Acy KGB, and Hillary Kynoch has the

same feeling. So how do you deal with him? We do have to deal with

Russia in a lot of different ways. There are areas where we can

co-operate. So it was Hillary Clinton who worked with Russia on

the New Start treaty, it was Hillary Clinton who worked with Russia to

get them engage in a community of nations to stop the run in weapon's

programme to without firing a shot. She is not praising him as a great

guy but knows how to set down at a table and negotiate tough deals.

This is a very challenging part of the world, and we ought to have a

commander-in-chief who has prepared and done it, rather than somebody

who goes around praising Vladimir Putin. I would like to talk about

North Korea, Iran, and the threat of nuclear weapons. North Korea

recently conducted its fifth and most powerful nuclear tests. What

specific tests -- steps would you take to prevent North Korea building

a nuclear missile capable of reaching the United States? First we

need to make a commitment to rebuild a military including modernising our

nuclear forces. And we also need an effective American diplomacy that

will marshal the resources of nations in the Asian Pacific rim to

put pressure on North Korea, on Kim Jong-un, to abandon his nuclear

ambitions. It has to remain the policy of the United States, the

denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and when Donald Trump is

president of the United States we are not going to have the kind of

posturing around the world that has Russia invading Crimea and Ukraine,

has the Chinese building new Islands in the South China Sea, it has the

world flouting American power. We are going to go back to the days of

peace through strength. But I have to tell you, all this talk about tax

returns, and I get it, you want to keep ringing it up, it must have

done well in a focus group. But Hillary Clinton and her husband set

up a private foundation called the Clinton Foundation. While she was

Secretary of State, the Clinton foundation accepted tens of millions

of dollars from foreign governments and foreign donors. Now, you will

need to know out there, this is basic stuff. Foreign donors, and

certainly foreign governments, cannot participate in the American

political process. They cannot make financial contributions. But the

Clintons figured out a way to create a foundation where foreign

governments and foreign donors can donate millions of dollars. And then

we found, thanks to the good work of the Associated Press, that more than

half of her private meetings when she was Secretary of State, were

given to major donors of the Clinton foundation. You talk about all these

baseless rumours about Russia and the rest, Hillary Clinton, you asked

the trustworthy question at the very beginning, the reason people don't

trust Hillary Clinton is because they are looking at the pay to play

politics that she operated with the Clinton foundation, through a

private server. And they are saying enough is enough. I am going to talk

about the foundation, then I will talk about North Korea. So on the

foundation, I am glad to talk about the foundation. The Clinton

Foundation is one of the highest rated charities in the world. It

provides AIDS drugs to about 11.5 million people. It helps Americans

deal with opioid overdoses. It gets higher rankings for its charity than

the American Red Cross does. The Clinton foundation does an awful lot

of good work. Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State took no action to

benefit the foundation, the State Department did an investigation and

they concluded that everything Hillary Clinton did as Secretary of

State was completely in the interests of the United States. So

the foundation does good work, and Hillary Clinton as Secretary of

State acted in the interest of the United States. But let's compare

this now with the Trump Organisation and the Trump Foundation. The Trump

Organisation is an octopus like organisation with tentacles all over

the world whose conflict of interests could only be known if

Donald Trump would release his tax returns. He has refused to do it.

His sons have said that the organisation has a lot of business

dealings in Russia. And remember, the Trump organisation is not a

nonprofit. It is putting money into Donald Trump's pockets and into the

pockets of his children whereas the Clinton Foundation is a non-profit

and no Clinton family member draws any salary. The Trump foundation is

nonprofit. In addition, Donald Trump has a Foundation. It was recently

fined for making an illegal contribution to Florida attorney

general, they tried to hide it late disguising it as someone else and

the person they donated to was somebody whose office was charged

with investigating the university. This is the difference between a

foundation that does good work and a Secretary of State who acted in

accordance with American interest is, and somebody who was conflicted

and doing work around the world and won't share with the American public

what he is doing and what those conflicts. Governor, I will give you

30 seconds to respond, because I know you want to, but again I will

remind you both, this was about North Korea. The Trump foundation is

a private family foundation. They give virtually every cent in the

Trump foundation to charitable causes. Less than 10 cents on the

dollar in the Clinton foundation has gone to charitable causes. $20,000

Porgera of Donald Trump? It has been a platform for the Clintons to

travel the world, to have staff. But honestly, Senator, we would know a

lot more about it if Hillary Clinton would turn over the 33,000 e-mails

that she refused to turn over. If you have intelligence, Senator

Kaine, if you had intelligence that North Korea was about to launch a

missile, a nuclear armed missile, capable of reaching the United

states, would you take pre-emptive action? Look, a president should

take action to defend the United States against a known threats, you

have to. The President has to do that. Now, exactly what action, he

would have to determine what your intelligence was, how certain you

were of that intelligence, but you would have to take action. You asked

the question of how do we deal with North Korea. Among the foreign

relations committee we just took out an extensive sanctions package

against North Korea and interestingly enough the UN followed

and the virtually the same package. Often China will use their veto on

the Security Council to veto a package like that. They are starting

to get worried about North Korea as well. So they actually supported the

sanctions package, even though many of the sanctions against Chinese

firms, Chinese financial institutions. So we are working

together with China, and we need to. China is another one of those

relationships where it is competitive, it is also challenging,

and at times like North Korea we have to be able to co-operate.

Hillary understands that very well. She went once famously to China and

stood up a human rights meeting and look them in the eye and said

women's rights are human rights. They didn't want her to say that,

but she did. She has also worked on a lot of diplomatic deals with

China, and that is what it is going to take. The thing I would worry a

little bit about is that Donald Trump owes about $650 million to

banks, including the bank of China. I'm not sure he could stand up so

tough to the people who have learned him money. I would like to turn to

our next segment now, and in this I would like to focus on social

issues. You have both been open about the role that faith has played

in your lives. Can you discuss in detail a time when you struggle to

balance your personal faith and a public policy position? That is an

easy one for me, Elaine. I am really fortunate, I grew up in a wonderful

household with great Irish Catholic parents, my mum and dad are sitting

right here. I was educated in Kansas City, my 43rd reunion is in ten

days. I worked with Jesuit missionaries in Honduras, nearly 35

years ago, and they were the heroes of my life. I try to practise my

religion in a very devout way, and follow the teachings of my church in

my own personal life. But I don't believe in this nation, the first

Amendment nation, where we don't raise any religion over the other,

and we allow people to worship as they please, that the doctrines of

any one religion should be mandated for everyone. For me the hardest

struggle in my face life was a Catholic Church is against the death

penalty, and so am I, but I was governor of the state. The State Law

said that there was a death penalty for crimes, if the jury determined

them to be heinous. And so I had to grapple with that. When I was

running for governor I was attacked pretty strongly because of my

position is death penalty. But I look the voters of Virginia in the

eye and said this is my religion, and I am not going to change my

religious practice to get one vote, but I know how to take an oath and

uphold the law, and if you elect me I will uphold the law. And I was

elected, and I did. It was very difficult to allow executions to go

forth but in situations where I didn't feel like there was a case

for clemency, I told Virginia voters that I would uphold the law, and I

did. That was a real struggle, but I think it is really important that

those of us who have deep faith lies don't feel they can substitute their

views forever in our society, regardless of their views. Governor

Pence. It is a wonderful question, and my Christian faith is at the

very heart of who I am. I was also raised in a wonderful family of

faith. It was church on Sunday morning and grace before dinner. My

Christian faith came real for me when I made a personal for Christ

when I was a freshman in college. I have tried to leave that out,

however imperfectly, every day of my life since. With my wife and my

site, we follow calling in the public service and have tried to

keep faith with the values that we cherish. And with regard to when I

struggle, I appreciate... And I have a great deal of respect for Senator

Kaine's sincere faith, I truly do. But for me, I would tell you that

for me the sanctity of life proceeds out of the belief of that ancient

principle, that where God says before you were formed, I knew you.

So for my first time in public life, I sought to stand with great

compassion for the sanctity of life. The state of Indiana has also sought

to make sure that we expand alternatives and healthcare

counselling or women, non- abortion alternatives. I am also very pleased

with the fact that we are well on our way in Indiana to become the

most pro- adoption state in America. I think if you are going to be pro-

life you should be pro- adoption. But what I can't understand is with

Hillary Clinton and now Senator Kaine at her side, to support a

practice like partial birth abortion, and to hold to the view...

I know, Senator Kaine, you hold pro-life views personally, but the

very idea that a child that is almost born into the world could

still have their life taken from them is just anathema to me. And I

can't in conscience support a party that supports that. I know you have

historically opposed taxpayer funding of abortion, but Hillary

Clinton wants to repeal the long-standing provision in the law

where we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion.

So for me my faith informs my life. I try and spend a little time on my

knees every day, but for me it begins with cherishing the dignity,

the worse, the value, of every human life. Elaine, this is a fundamental

question, a fundamental question. Hillary and I are both people of

religious backgrounds, her Methodist church experience was really

formative for her as a public servant. But we really feel like you

should live fully and with enthusiasm the commands of your

faith. But it is not the role of the public servant to mandate that for

everybody else. So let's talk about abortion and choice. Let's talk

about that. We support Roe versus Wade. We support the constitutional

right of American women to consult their own conscience, their own...

Supportive partner, their own minister, but then make their own

decision about pregnancy. That is something we trust American women,

to do that. And we don't think that women should be punished as Donald

Trump said they should, for making the decision to have an abortion.

Governor Pence wants to repeal Roe versus Wade. He said he wants to put

it on the ash heap of history. We have some young people in the

audience who were not even born when it was decided. This is pretty

important. Before Roe versus Wade, states could pass criminal laws to

do just that, to punish women if they made the choice to terminate

pregnancy. I think you should leave your moral values, but the last

thing, the very last thing, that governments should do is have laws

that would punish women who make reproductive choices. And that is

the fundamental difference between Clinton ticket and a trump ticket

that wants to punish women. It is really not, Donald Trump and I would

never support legislation that would punish women who make the

heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy. So why did he say that?

Look, he is not a polished politician like Hillary Clinton. A

great line from the gospel of Matthew... The fullness of the

heart, the mouth speaks. When Donald Trump says women should be punished

or Mexicans are rapists and criminals, or John McCain is not a

hero, he is showing you who he is. Senator, you have worked out that

Mexican thick again. Can you defend that? There are criminal aliens in

this country who have come into this country illegally, who are

perpetrating violence you want to use a tar brush against Mexicans, on

that? He also said and many of them are good people. You keep leaving

that out of your quote, and if you want to go there I will go there.

There is a choice here, and it is a choice in life. I couldn't be more

proud to be standing with Donald Trump, who is standing for the right

to life. It is a principle that Senator Kaine, and I'm very gentle

about this, because I really do respect you, it is a principle that

you embrace, and I have appreciated the fact that you have supported the

amendment which bans the use of taxpayer funding for abortion in the

past, but that is not Hillary Clinton's view. People need to

understand we can come together as a nation, we can create a culture of

life. More and more young people today are embracing life, because we

know we are better for it. Like Mother Teresa said, let's welcome

the children into our world. There are so many families around the

country who can't have children. If we could improve adoption so that

families who can have children can adopt more readily.

Why don't you trust women to make history for themselves? We can

encourage people to support life. Why don't you trust women? Why

doesn't Donald Trump trust women to make this choice for themselves?

That is what we should be doing in public life, living the lives of

faith or motivation with enthusiasm and excitement, convincing each

other, having dialogue about important moral issues. On

fundamental issues of morality we should let women make their own

decisions. Because society can be judged by how it deals with the most

invulnerable, including the unborn and I cannot be more proud than

being with Donald Trump on this. It has been a divisive campaign. If

your ticket wins, Senator SenaKaine, what will you do to unify the

country and reassure the people who voted against it? -- Senator Kaine.

It might be the city $4000 question. It has been a divisive campaign.

Hillary is running a campaign about stronger together. Donald Trump,

this is not directed at this man, except to the extent that he cannot

defend Donald Trump, he has run a campaign about one in sold after the

next. We have to bring the country together. Here is what we will do.

Hillary Clinton was First Lady and then senator and Secretary of State.

I am amazed, as I talk with Republican senators, how

well-regarded she is. She was on other committees. She worked across

the aisle as First Lady to get the Chip programme passed so 8 million

kids have health insurance. That is including 150,000 in Indiana. She

worked across the aisle after 9/11 to get health benefits for those

responders who went into the Pentagon and into the Twin Towers.

She got benefits for the National guard members, including those in

Virginia in the National guard. She has a track record of working across

the aisle to make things happen. I have the same track record. I was

governor of Virginia with two Republican houses and in the Senate

I have good working relationships across the aisle. It is fine to be a

Democrat or Republican or independent but after election day

they will always work together. Hillary Clinton has a track record

of accomplishment across the aisle that will enable her to do just

that. How will you unify the country if you win? Thank you, Elaine, and

thanks for a great discussion. Thank you. This is a very challenging time

in the life of our nation. It has weakened America's place in the

world. The world has been followed by an economy that is truly

struggling, stifled by an avalanche of more taxes, more regulation,

Obamacare, the war on coal and the trade deals that have put American

workers in the back seat. I think the best way that we can bring

people together is through change in Washington, DC. I served in

Washington, DC fought fault years in the Congress of the United States.

-- for 12 years. It is going to take leadership to do this. The American

people want to see the nation standing tall on the world stage.

They want to see us supporting the military, rebuilding the military,

commending the respect of the world. They want to see the American

economy off to the races. They want to see an American comeback. Donald

Trump's career has been about building. Going through hardship

like a business person does, and finding a way through smarts and

ingenuity to fight. When he becomes president of the United States, we

will have a stronger America. When you hear that he says he wants to

make America great again, when we do that I truly do believe the American

people will be standing tall. They are going to see that real change

can happen after decades of talking about it. When that happens, the

American people will stand tall, stand together and we will have the

unity that has been missing for far too long. Thank you so much. This

concludes the vice presidential debate. My thanks to the candidates,

the commission and to you for watching. Please tune in on Sunday

for the second presidential debate at Washington University in St Louis

and the final debate on October 19 at the University of Nevada, Las

Vegas. From Farmville, Virginia, good night.

And that is the end of the one and only vice presidential debate. A

very feisty affair in which Tim Kaine and Mike Pence clashed over

the North Korean threat, the state of the US economy, terrorism, Syria,

Russia, Hillary Clinton's record as Secretary of State and the record of

the Clinton Foundation. They went at it hammer and tong, both men really

had prepared and it showed. Watching all of it for us at the debate in

Virginia was the BBC's Anthony Zirker. It was a really substantive

debate, wasn't it? Who do you think came out on top? It was a very

spirited debate. Stylistically, Mike Pence's experience as a radio show

host in the 1990s came across. He was calm, measured. Tim Kaine seemed

over aggressive, over caffeinated, maybe. His interrupting won't play

well with the audience. Mike Pence seemed to be making the case for

republicanism, telling Republicans this was still the party. Whenever

Tim Kaine went after Donald Trump, trying to get in a jab, Mike Pence

deflected them and talk about something else. He only talked about

Donald Trump when he was pressed and oftentimes he said, Donald Trump

didn't say that, or on the abortion subject he said Donald Trump didn't

mean that, he is not a polished politician. Mike Pence was making

the case that the Republican Party is still there. Tim Kaine was doing

the traditional vice presidential role of being the attack dog. It

might not have come across to the national audience but he said that

might hence wasn't defending Donald Trump. He said six times Mike Pence

hasn't defended Donald Trump. It is a wash as far as I think who won and

lost. They each have things they wanted to do. Like we said before,

these debates don't really have much influence on the bigger picture. I

think Mike Pence probably helped Mike Pence of the most tonight. What

impact do you think this is going to have going into that crucial second

presidential debate on Sunday? To some extent, Mike Pence accomplished

his goal, which he didn't have any visible gas, he didn't throw fuel

onto the fire, helps create a breaking point from this bad week

that Donald Trump has hard. So are going forward, we will talk about

this debate for a couple of days but I don't think it will have a lasting

effect after that. It might give the trump campaign a chance to reset the

narrative and have a clean table going into the St Louis debate on

Sunday night. If that is the case it is up to Donald Trump to put

together a better performance than he had in the first debate. Thank

you. Genevieve Wood joins me now, former spokesperson for the

Republican national Mitty, and a democratic strategist, Christopher

finis. If only Donald Trump put in such a good performance, is there a

lesson for the second debate, Mike Pence was disciplined, he was on

message, he didn't rant, he was persuasive. I was proud of Mike

Pence. I was not surprised. I have spoken with him a number of times

and he delivered like he always does. He knows his policy, he is a

good presenter of policy. And going to Anthony's point, I don't know how

many people were watching after 30 or 40 minutes because you should

have been moderating this! She lost control at some points. Some of that

was Tim Kaine who jumped in a little bit too much. They were talking over

each other. They did begin to talk over each other but as it went on it

got better and I hope people stuck with it. It is interesting, looking

on Twitter at the people who were doing focus groups of undecided

voters, who said that Tim Kaine was interrupting too much and they felt

he was robotic in his talking point. Mike Pence was more natural. Maybe

the radio show host coming through. We usually do the focus groups for

these debates. We chose not to for the VP one because it is not as

exciting and it lived up to expectation. Part of the challenge,

when you are doing a debate, there is a tone and a substance part of

the reaction that voters will have. And I think when you are

interrupting, in terms of... Both of them were doing it. It rubs people

wrong and a little bit. That I think was the major mistakes that he made

in the first debate, Trump, stylistically Mike Pence was calm

and measured, you know. They both got in their core talking points.

They both got what they want and from this. For Mike Pence it was,

the insane ticket is kind of scene. OK? I am not sure that is going to

fly. That was his goal. For Tim Kaine it was arguing the reasons why

you cannot vote for a Trump- Pence to get. And on the democratic side

is the question of Donald Trump and his taxes which was a question

expected. The story that he wrote of $1 billion in tax and did not pay

taxes, perhaps, for almost 20 years of this question of when he releases

his tax return is coming up and this is what Mike Pence had to say. He

defended Ronald Trump's use of the tax system. He faced some pretty

tough times 20 years ago. Like every other business, including the New

York Times not long ago, he was using net operating loss. We have a

tax code that is designed to encourage entrepreneurship. Why when

he released his tax return? We are answering the question about the

business thing. I want to comeback to this. His tax return showed he

went through a very difficult time but he used the tax code just the

way it is supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. How can you know

that? You haven't seen his tax return. He has created a business

worth billions of dollars. How do you know that? Tim Kaine didn't kiss

his opportunity and questioned why Donald Trump wasn't releasing his

tax returns. -- myths. He said if I run for president I will release my

taxes. He has broken his first promise. And he will! He stood on

the stage... He hasn't broken his promise! When Hillary said he hasn't

been paying taxes he said, that makes me smile. It is smart not to

pay for the military? Not to pay for veterans? Not to pay for teachers?

All of us are pay for those things I guess are stupid. The last thing I

will say... Do you write down all the things you are entitled to? I

do. The governor, macros to, had to show his details to show he was

qualified -- Pence. Donald Trump has to do that and he is breaking his

promise. So, it was a feisty exchange over taxes. The question

was coming, Donald Trump and his tax returns, Mike Pence was eloquent but

did he convince voters who want Donald Trump to release his tax

returns? Probably not. On the record, I wish he released it a long

time ago. It should have been out of the way a long time ago. I think

this issue is hurting Donald Trump less than it would have hurt but

Romney and other folks and I will tell you why. People know the tax

system needs reform. They know that people up and down the ladder and

people at the top have lawyers and accountants who take account of

loopholes. $1 billion worth of loopholes? And they know that he has

been upfront about that. He has been a politician who has said, the tax

system works for folks like me. I have used it. I know that better

than anybody. He has been more honest about those things, just like

you said in the past. Yes, I have given to politicians on both sides

because I know how it works and I think people appreciate that. I

don't think it is hurting him as it would others but I wish he had

released them. Do you feel that Tim Kaine was a little bit too keen to

act our contactors? You might think it is a bogus defence but Mike Pence

was eloquent and calm in the way he presented.

I see it a couple of different ways. It is beyond the pale that someone

running for president, when every other republican has done... Even if

they are questions that could be easily answered, but you have to

release them to keep legitimacy. The part about the billion-dollar loss,

to me... From my focus, the fixation on releasing the tax is only get you

so far. People have heard this for six months, a year. Whoever will be

influenced by this has moved. To me, the most significantly damaging

factor that came out of that story in the New York Times was the fact