29/10/2013 North West Tonight

weekend. That's all from us. Now the news

where you are. Good evening.

Welcome to North West Tonight with Annabel Tiffin and Roger Johnson.

Our top story: Speed up HS2. The Transport Secretary tells us he

wants it built here sooner. A lot of people would like it to be speeded

up. I would as well. But we have to go through the proper process. I am

at Manchester Piccadilly where the Transport Secretary arrive get

saying that high`speed rail will benefit the North of England more

than the south. It sounds like a political fight back.

The fifth report justifying the scheme was published today. We

travel to France to see the impact of high`speed rail there. While

closer to home. The government says it is not just

about quick train times to London and back again, it is about freeing

up the nation's roads. Is our business community convinced?

Also in this evening's programme: Thieves target the most dangerous

weapons, as they steal semiautomatic guns from a shooting school.

And finding spirituality in the patron saint of lost things.

Hundreds of Catholics queue to see the remains of a 13th century

priest. It will benefit the North more than

the South and rebalance the economy. That was the Transport Secretary's

promise for HS2 today. In Manchester for the National Rail Conference. A

patch and mend job on our railways, he said, will not do ` the only

option is a new North/South link. It is a project that hopes to bring

the country together and yet rarely has something divided opinion quite

so much. Today the government published its fifth business case `

to justify a 250mph railway linking London to Manchester, Leeds,

Birmingham and Sheffield in two phases.

It will cost ?42.6 billion. But for every pound spent, the government

estimates it will now produce an economic benefit of ?2.30 ` down

from ?2.50. That will equate to a fall in revenue of almost ?9billion.

But will it do what it promises ` or instead be the waste of money many

fear? Our Political Editor Arif Ansari has been at the rail

conference. He joins us live from Manchester's Piccadilly station Was

this the latest attempt to win over the doubters, Arif? To some extent,

it is. The government would never call it a political fight back, but

essentially that is what it was They are frustrated that they are

offering billions of pounds of infrastructure to be the economy and

yet it is the anti`campaign that has had so much of the initiative. Today

we are being reminded that high`speed rail is not all about

high`speed, it is also about capacity, the economy and jobs and

the Transport Secretary, who we will hear from later, reminding us that

they believe it will benefit the North of England more than the

south. Thank you. More from Arif at Piccadilly Station later. But we

have three reports tonight. Judy Hobson has been to France to see the

impact of high`speed rail there Jayne McCubbin's been asking if

people in Wigan believe the business case. And Stuart Flinders looks to

the past to see if history has any lessons. The first of those pieces

now from the French town of Rheims. This the French city where they used

to crown their kings, Reims ` famous for champagne ` lies 80 miles east

of Paris. It used to take around two hours to reach the capital by train.

But not any more. With a top speed of 190mph, this is France's

high`speed rail network. Which means Riems is now just 45 minutes from

Paris. France first invested in high`speed rail in 1976, to link the

main cities to the capital in order to boost the economy and create

jobs. So has it worked? In Reims, I meet the man whose job it is to

bring business here. Since high`speed rail, he says, 140 new

companies have set up here ` creating 5000 jobs. But how much is

down to the TGV? Thanks to the TGV, you can play in the Premier League

but you do not have the guarantee that you will win the championship.

You have to invest in new universities, new high schools, but

also in new theatres and stadiums. That is exactly what they say

they've done here. The tourism industry is celebrating too ` it's

grown year on year since the rail link was built. It is easy for the

tourism because usually they come to Paris directly by aeroplane. But it

is 45 minute with the TGV. So they can come for the afternoon or just a

few hours. The fear was that high`speed rail will draw talent

from the regions to Paris. Today, just 1000 people commute to the

capital ` just 1% of the working population. Business owners tell me

that's been a good thing. Very good for tourists. Good for business A

lot of people live this in Reims and lives in Paris cos it is expensive

to live in Paris. `` a lot of people live in Reims but working Paris But

there's one major difference between France and England ` the cost.

France's high`speed track costs around ?9 million per mile. Compare

that to Germany, where it costs ?22 million per mile. Spain's is ?3

million. While here in the UK, we're told a mile of track for HS2 could

cost as much as ?129 million per mile. We have spent 38 billion Euros

on the line and benefited economically by 80 billion. But he

says towns without high`speed rail have missed out. They see the

difference between them and the other city which are already served

by high`speed rail, they remain in the same status as they did 20 or 30

years ago. Cities in the North West, like Liverpool, are concerned they

too will be left behind. While Cheshire fears it will pay the

environmental cost. Here in France, concerns about the environment

haven't been as high up the agenda ` because it's a bigger country and

less populated. The bottom line for the UK is whether the benefits

outweigh the costs. We're unlikely to see trains like

those here in the North West before 2032. It'll take nine years to build

our route north of Birmingham. And here's where it's coming.

Entering south Cheshire and passing under Crewe in a tunnel. It moves

north ` alongside the existing West Coast Main Line at times ` bisecting

Winsford and Middlewich. The line moves up to the west of

Knutsford before it splits. The eastern branch heads off towards a

stop at Manchester Airport before entering a tunnel under Wythenshawe,

all the way to Piccadilly Station. To the west, it moves on up through

the countryside, passing Lymm and villages like Culcheth and Lowton

before linking up with the West Coast Main Line just south of Wigan.

And that's where we find our Economics Correspondent Jayne

McCubbin. Do the businesses there believe the business case for HS2?

Vital boost for the economy or a white elephant charging through the

country, eating up tens of billions of pounds? I'm heading to Wigan to

see the economic case there. This isn't just about quick train travel

between London and the North. It is about freeing up the clogged

motorways and roads, shifting some of this off the motorways and

sticking it on to existing rail lines that are grinding to a halt.

That is the government case. So our first stop ` a freight park in

Haydock, where they're unconvinced. All it will do is move congestion

from one region down south. You do not buy this business argument at

all? Not for ?50 billion. No. My main issue is, if for example the

journey time to London a shorter, we will lose our local labour. Terms of

the amount of money they are spending, it is genuinely for

connectivity. Perhaps faster broadband is more useful. If

businesses haven't caught the wave of enthusiasm, have council leaders?

And bear in mind this council leader is a Labour leader. Why are you so

firmly behind this when there is a belief that your party is backing

away? I was in France. They are building more. They are building a

line and we are still talking about it. What is wrong with us as a

country? It is too expensive. It is expensive, but the long`term

benefits, which every other country in Europe can see, we will be left

behind. A recent study said HS2 could boost the UK's economy by ?15

billion. For Wigan, a potential boost of ?81 million. But it also

estimated losers. Towns not on the route. Lancaster ` ?45million.

Chester Ellesmere Port ` ?29 million. HS2 might be capable of

shifting people and freight. It could also shift investment. 90 of

the properties Debra sells are along the planned route. She says it's

already costing sales. The exact words were, if HS2 does not go

ahead, we will buy it but at the moment we cannot commit. This is

something that is a guide only. It is people's perceptions. With so

many conflicting arguments for and against, the unknown is the only

thing we have. Let's go back now to our political

editor Arif Ansari, who has spent the day at the National Rail

Conference in Manchester ` he's at Piccadilly Station this evening

We should not make the mistake that there is not any opposition to this

in the north`west. Absolutely. That is right. The reality is, if your

back garden is about to be torn up, it does not matter whether you are

in Cheshire or Oxfordshire, you re not going to be happy about the

idea. Today outside the comp as there was a small group of

campaigners mainly from Cheshire but further afield as well who were

certainly against the idea. One of them spoke to me and told me

high`speed rail is better suited to European countries where cities are

further apart. We are not a country like that. We have communities all

over the country and many of those are going to lose out in a variety

of ways thanks to HS2. Including parts of Greater Manchester because

Stockport and Winslow are going to get big reductions in their rail

services to London. The reality is, the government has been somewhat on

the back foot over high`speed rail. Certainly when the arguments began

some of the figures were picked over and pulled apart. Some of the

arguments were severely challenged. Today Patrick McLoughlin has been

trying to regain the initiative on that and when he arrived here

earlier, I spoke to him and began by asking him why high`speed rail with

benefit the North of England more than the south. Because it as

drastically to the capacity. It is not just me that believes it, if you

talk to the leader of Manchester City Council, you talk to the leader

of Leeds City Council or Birmingham, they all agree. The idea that

somehow high`speed would suck more jobs into the south is not something

that the leader of Manchester City Council says and it is not something

I believe. Why did you not go with the idea that came out of one of the

research organisations, suggesting building the line from Manchester to

Birmingham burst and then connecting to London? I inherited the plan that

the last Labour government gave us which was starting in London. We are

consulting on the line from Birmingham to Manchester. It would

delay the project even more. I understand the desire for a faster

building of the line and it is one of the things that I will be talking

about with the chairman of HS2. You are keen to speed up the northern

part of the building? A lot of people would like it to be speeded

up. I would. We have to go through the proper process. At the moment we

are consulting, the consultation is a live consultation and I cannot

prejudge that at the moment. We have been in France where they have lots

of high`speed rail. It has boosted the economy. But one thing is,

cities that have not been connected to high`speed rail, or equivalent

being Liverpool, they say that to some extent they are being stuck in

the past. Is that a danger? I don't think so. I want to watch and make

sure that does not happen. You is a point to remember, once you get

high`speed trains to Birmingham they carry on, they carry on to

Manchester and Liverpool. So that is very important. Indeed, the Mayor of

Liverpool is one of the supporters for high`speed trains. That was

Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary speaking to me earlier. So

where does this lately even high`speed rail? Certainly there is

a lot of scepticism and a lot of opponents and people who do not

believe it will be dealt, but the message coming from today's

conference was that it will be built and it will be built on budget.

Thank you very much. It is a subject that does divide opinion. What do

you think? E`mail us ` or get in touch via Facebook or Twitter. Is

HS2 value for money? Do you think it will help bridge the North/South

divide? How will it affect you and where you live?

We don't need to ask for comments. We already have many of them. We'll

return to the subject of HS2 later in the programme ` with some of your

comments ` and Stuart Flinders will be looking at the lessons from

history. A full review of security at a

Lancashire shooting club is underway after 17 semiautomatic shotguns were

stolen. Detectives say the gang knew exactly

what they were looking for. They're now liaising with colleagues in

neighbouring forces to try and trace the missing firearms. Our Chief

Reporter, Dave Guest, has the story. They've been shooting at Kelbrook

Lodge just outside Colne for more than 100 years. Originally a retreat

for the wealthy to enjoy shooting weekends, it's now a specialist

training centre where clay pigeons are now the target. But this place

was targeted by thieves last Thursday night. They broke into the

secure storage area and stole 1 guns. They were all semiautomatic

and in the wrong hands, we are concerned that they could cause some

injury and serious harm. It's a remote spot, surrounded by

countryside. I have been in the gun business since 1972 and this is the

first issue we have ever had with any guns being stolen. Have you

reviewed your security arrangements? Yes. We have police approval up to

the burglary, we have now looked at our system and upgraded. In their

haste, the thieves dropped one of the guns. It was found by a member

of the public about a quarter of a mile from here but that still leaves

69 accounted for. Lancashire Police say they are liaising with

neighbouring forces because they want to trace these guns as quickly

as possible. Police investigating the death of a five`year`old boy who

was knocked down and killed by a car in Manchester ten years ago have

made three arrests. It follows a public appeal earlier this year to

mark the anniversary of Sam Walker's death. They include two men ` aged

31 and 33 ` and a 56`year old woman. The original investigation team

described a wall of silence that they faced. I can safely say that

that wall of silence is falling apart brick by brick. The people of

this town can hardly want this to be brought to an end and have started

coming forward with information I want that to continue.

The family of a 14`year`old boy from Cheshire ` feared dead after being

swept away in the storms ` say he was "just a typical teenager." Dylan

Alkins ` originally from Neston ` was caught by a wave on the beach in

East Sussex on Sunday. Rescuers are continuing their search for him

And in the next half an hour, John Lennon's childhood home will be sold

at auction. It's going under the hammer at The Cavern Club in

Liverpool. The terrace on Newcastle Road in Wavertree is where the

Beatles star lived with his parents until he was five. The three`bedroom

house is expected to fetch up to ?250,000.

Hundreds of people packed a Catholic Church in Trafford today to see the

remains of a 13th century Franciscan monk.

St Anthony of Padua is, famously, the saint Catholics over the

centuries have prayed to if they've lost something or someone. The

relics are being taken on a tour of churches in the region. Our reporter

Ian Haslam went to take a look. He might be the patron saint people

look to for help in finding things ` but as All Saints Friary in Urmston

started to fill this morning, concern was growing as to St

Anthony's whereabouts. He is having a joke. He is testing your faith.

How right she was ` the relics may have been slightly delayed in

arriving, but for the hundreds of people inside, the chance to see

them was well worth the wait. Venerating relics is a longstanding

Catholic tradition that many believe will help bring them closer to God.

A renowned 13th century priest, St Anthony of Padua was made a saint

shortly after his death for his preaching. The relics include a

small piece of bone and a layer of his cheek. When people come here,

they feel that they have a kind of connection with Saint Anthony. They

know very well that these are parts of the person who died over 800

years ago. Once you place your hands on it, it is a sense of calm and

spirituality comes on you. `` comes up on you. Today is Saint Anthony 's

day and we are lucky to have him here, bringing people closer

together. You can see it from the atmosphere that it is prayerful

This is not the last chance people in the North West will have to see

the relics. The relics move on to Liverpool tomorrow to the Church of

St Anthony of Padua. Sport now, it's the Capital One Cup

tonight and Manchester United could hand a start to Wilfried Zaha, as

they face Norwich at Old Trafford looking for a place in the last

eight. And hopes are high in East

Lancashire that Burnley could also make the quarter finals. They face

West Ham at Turf Moor. There is an echo around Turf Moor,

an echo of 2009, the year that brought a famous cup run. The Turf

Moor stands and applause what has been a monumental effort. 2009 also

brought promotion. So this season, could they do it again? I think we

are better now than we were then. Totally unexpected after Charlie

went in the close season. We are doing all right. The veteran of the

2019, Graham Alexander, has since signed up to manage lead to

Fleetwood and is now chasing his own promotion. We have got a decent

points tally. We had a couple of defeats. We should have at least got

a draw or some wins. He still has one eye on Burnley. You are seeing

shades of 2009. We did not start off that great. We had two points after

four games that we did not have the blazing start that Birmingham have

had this time but they are on a very small budget, they will not be

worried about it if the end result is good. That would mean another

vintage season for the team. Warrington Wolves have announced a

four year sponsorship deal with Emirates Airlines, in what's being

seen as one of the most significant deals in recent Rugby League

history. Emirates already sponsor some of the biggest names in world

football ` Real Madrid, Paris St Germain and Arsenal. They also

sponsor Lancashire Cricket Club Back to football, sir Alex Ferguson

has been nominated for coach of the year by UEFA. Robin van Persie, Yaya

Toure and Lewis Suarez are also short listed for the trophy.

Back to our main story tonight: HS2. Before that, of course, there was

HS1 ` the high`speed link between London and the Channel Tunnel. And

before that? The world's first high`speed train

travelled between Manchester and Liverpool nearly two centuries ago.

And many of the arguments now used against HS2 were used against that

line all those years ago. Stuart Flinders reports.

Romantic, picturesque, the age of steam. But that is not have it

seemed when the world's first purpose`built passenger railway

opened between Manchester and Liverpool in 1830. Those trains were

travelling at 25 mph which is hardly HS2. But for the 1830s, that was

high`speed. Let's call the Liverpool to Manchester Lane HS zero. Most

people would have only travelled as fast as a horse could take them so

you have gone from ten mph to 2 mph by this steaming monster. So it

would be very frightening. The Manchester terror menace on HS

zero is now part of the Museum of science and industry. They have made

a replica of one of the early engines. The parallels with HS2 are

remarkable. There was strong opposition from the landowners to

the original route of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. The rate was

changed. The rich that we now see today and travel on is in fact more

southerly. `` the route. Dare I say it is more expensive. And, as with

HS2, the question, do we need it? Most of the opposition apart from

the landowners came from the existing transport operators. The

three canal systems that ran between Liverpool and Manchester had a

virtual monopoly of the traffic and the object it very strongly indeed

to the railway being opened and said there was no need for the railway to

be built. HS0, a lesson from history for HS2.

Shirt got the best job, travelling in style! `` Stewart got the best

job. First, we have got the weather.

It is a bit quieter today. Hello. After all the excitement of

yesterday, the weather is back to normal. Having said that, it is

still fairly unsettled for the week ahead. We are going to see showers

from time to time and it is not going to be a particularly warm for

the week ahead. Today was really quite cold outdoors. The

temperatures struggled to hit double figures. Ten or 11 Celsius today,

for the rest of the week the temperatures continue to struggle.

For tonight, we are going to see a few more showers through this

evening but you can see the showers are beginning to fade away

overnight. The cloud also fading away. We are going to see lots of

clear skies tonight, underneath it will be a chilly night. Temperatures

in parts of Cumbria, rural parts of Cumbria, and in parts of Cheshire,

will drop fairly close to freezing so we could see a touch of grass

frost tomorrow morning. Tomorrow it starts off decent. Then it will turn

wet and windy later, so a chilly start because of the frost but you

can see clear skies as well. Rates spells through the morning. A fair

amount of sunshine and showers. In the afternoon, that band of rain a

year then. `` that band of rain eases in. You could see rain in

Greater Manchester in the late afternoon and the winds will pick up

as well. In terms of temperature, it is not particularly warm, 12 or 13

Celsius. The rain eases away tomorrow night as we head into

Thursday. It is more of the same, maybe not quite as wet, it will be

unsettled. You will see a lot of showers and between the sunshine.

Ten or 11 Celsius so it is still not particularly warm. As we head into

the weekend, you can see for Friday it is not looking too bad but the

weekend yet again will be unsettled. Back to you two.

Thank you. We are looking at the e`mails we have received. I

apologise, we cannot get through them all. One man said that he

doubts any government would back a project that benefited the North

more than the south. One man said it is a toy for the

rich paid for by the poor, causing massive environmental damage.

One`man support to HS2, although he said it needs to support Liverpool,

Newcastle and Sheffield. For years we grumbled we were behind

our continental neighbours. Now we are doing something to catch up and

people are still complaining. The line from London to Birmingham

will be built. Ivan says it is fantastic news for

the region, let's hope the complainers grow up and get over it.

Stephen said this is considered an expensive project. How much would

the end 25 have cost if it was starting construction now? `` the

M25. That is it from us. Good night.