0:00:13 > 0:00:16WIND HOWLS
0:01:22 > 0:01:25TRANSLATION: Yes, I was very confused.
0:01:25 > 0:01:27For several reasons.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31There I was, a 23-year-old student, in the office of Georges Remi,
0:01:31 > 0:01:35the great cartoonist better known as Herge.
0:01:35 > 0:01:40I literally walked in off the street and we hardly knew each other.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45And there we sat for four long days,
0:01:45 > 0:01:50speaking of things that changed my understanding of what he did.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56We talked about the incredible adventures of Tintin.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03Twenty three books created over a period of 47 years,
0:02:03 > 0:02:07translated into 58 languages and published in millions of copies.
0:02:07 > 0:02:08And why?
0:02:08 > 0:02:13Well, like many others, I've always felt that the books
0:02:13 > 0:02:16were much more than the intent to entertain children.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25And I found that I was right.
0:02:35 > 0:02:42In Tintin, Herge distilled 50 years of politics, wars and daily life,
0:02:42 > 0:02:45cars, trains and planes,
0:02:45 > 0:02:48businessmen, dictators, scientists.
0:02:49 > 0:02:54You can trace the history of the 20th century through Tintin's adventures.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02Holy shit!
0:03:04 > 0:03:06You'll find strange things too.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10Paranormal experiences, dreams,
0:03:10 > 0:03:13frightening things,
0:03:13 > 0:03:16things that have to do with the inner life.
0:03:17 > 0:03:21And what I discovered in talking with him was that this innocent series
0:03:21 > 0:03:25increasingly became a personal expression,
0:03:25 > 0:03:28a way to express his own problems
0:03:28 > 0:03:31and, often, his inner crises.
0:03:55 > 0:03:59My name is Numa Sadoul. I'm an actor, director and writer.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01But in October 1971
0:04:01 > 0:04:07I was a student and went to Brussels, the rainy Mecca of the comic book,
0:04:07 > 0:04:11to interview cartoonists for a small magazine.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18But the undisputed high point of the trip
0:04:18 > 0:04:20was meeting Herge.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39He was extremely enigmatic.
0:04:39 > 0:04:44When I saw him on television or in the papers,
0:04:44 > 0:04:48he always seemed very elegant and charming, but also reserved,...
0:04:50 > 0:04:54as though he made a point of concealing his own personality.
0:05:01 > 0:05:05I was very curious. And then I felt a sudden impulse.
0:05:10 > 0:05:15I asked him if he was willing to do a long, in-depth interview
0:05:15 > 0:05:17which could become a book.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21To my great surprise, he said, "Yes." Just like that.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24I don't know why.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28So we immediately began a week of conversations.
0:08:47 > 0:08:52I was totally taken by surprise that he confided in me that way.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55I was interviewing someone
0:08:55 > 0:08:59and suddenly we were into psychoanalysis.
0:08:59 > 0:09:06Suddenly, I was psychoanalysing the man I was supposed to interview.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09It was deeply disturbing.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12He was giving me a role I could not handle
0:09:12 > 0:09:16because I was too young.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18But I threw myself into it
0:09:18 > 0:09:21with the naivety and blindness young people have
0:09:21 > 0:09:25and took on the role of psychiatrist.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43Now the Reverend Wallez enters the picture.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46I knew absolutely nothing about Reverend Wallez.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49I had no idea who he was.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53The first time I heard about him was when Herge mentioned him.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57I had no idea of the influence this man had on his thoughts,
0:10:57 > 0:11:03his life, his marriage and his philosophy.
0:11:06 > 0:11:09Wallez was extremely politically aware.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13As the editor of the Vingtieme Siecle, an ultra-Catholic newspaper,
0:11:13 > 0:11:16he admired Hitler and Italian fascism.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19He was proud of the picture of Mussolini in his office.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23This was everywhere in the 1930s.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28There was a bizarre alliance between the Church and fascism in Belgium.
0:11:28 > 0:11:33Reverend Wallez saw it as a modern point of view.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35He also had modern thoughts for his paper.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40He wanted to make a youth section
0:11:40 > 0:11:43that could amuse the kids and teach them his political ideas.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46Then he discovered Herge,
0:11:46 > 0:11:49who had a junior position in the advertising department.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53He asked him to create a young hero, a Catholic reporter,
0:11:53 > 0:11:57who would fight for good all over the world.
0:11:57 > 0:12:01That's how Tintin was born in 1929.
0:12:28 > 0:12:34This Church-orientated newspaper which had modest but steady sales
0:12:34 > 0:12:37suddenly found on Thursday
0:12:37 > 0:12:42it had to print I don't know how many more copies in order to satisfy demand.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44All because of Tintin.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47It was a brilliant idea. It was terribly successful.
0:12:47 > 0:12:53Then I realised that Wallez organised his private life, quite literally.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57He even assigned his secretary as his wife.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01Her name was Germaine Kieckens and was also his faithful disciple.
0:13:20 > 0:13:25At this stage, the early Tintins are no more than
0:13:25 > 0:13:30the drawing-up of the propaganda that had been given
0:13:30 > 0:13:32by the boss to Herge
0:13:32 > 0:13:35and the same thing happens with Tintin In The Congo,
0:13:35 > 0:13:41where Belgian rule is the only way these big, silly Africans
0:13:41 > 0:13:43can possibly live their lives.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46He didn't know what he was talking about, he was just peddling a line,
0:13:46 > 0:13:49which everyone thought was the right line at the time.
0:15:24 > 0:15:28The Blue Lotus is, if not his only masterpiece,
0:15:28 > 0:15:30his first masterpiece.
0:15:30 > 0:15:36With large Shanghai street scene, where you have the Chinese banners,
0:15:36 > 0:15:41every one saying something which has real meaning in Mandarin.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44Everything would have been supervised by Tchang,
0:15:44 > 0:15:46drawn by him, the letters,
0:15:46 > 0:15:50and the slogans on the wall with their political message,
0:15:50 > 0:15:53"Down with imperialism", appropriately, there.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56It was writing about a very difficult period
0:15:56 > 0:16:01which was Japanese sabre-rattling and agitation in China
0:16:01 > 0:16:06and this is a very strong political satire of that.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09It's current affairs, it's contemporary journalism,
0:16:09 > 0:16:11it's not just a children's book.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15It's terribly significant, because every adventure after that
0:16:15 > 0:16:19was influenced by the extra trouble he'd taken over it.
0:16:19 > 0:16:23Dear Tchang,
0:16:23 > 0:16:27I remember the day so well when you visited my wife and me.
0:16:27 > 0:16:32I can still see and hear you explain that all things have a soul.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35You spoke of the life in the tree behind our house.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58BUZZER
0:17:31 > 0:17:34He's speaking about Captain Haddock.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37HADDOCK: Tramps! Terrorists! Troglodytes!
0:17:52 > 0:17:54Savages!
0:18:04 > 0:18:07Visigoths! Vandals!
0:19:14 > 0:19:17There are only two drawings he really likes.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19Only two.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21Both in the same style.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58Tintin, is that you?
0:19:58 > 0:19:59Where are you?
0:19:59 > 0:20:01Here!
0:20:02 > 0:20:04Behind the waterfall!
0:20:04 > 0:20:08Behind the waterfall? How?
0:20:08 > 0:20:11Get down here. I'll show you.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15Pass through the waterfall.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17It's only a thin veil of water.
0:20:17 > 0:20:21Oh, my good lad. Well, if it's necessary.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26Thundering typhoons!
0:20:26 > 0:20:28This is incredible!
0:20:49 > 0:20:51Tintin travelled all over the world.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54There are few continents Tintin didn't go to.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58So Tintin travelled everywhere, Herge travelled nowhere.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00He was an armchair traveller
0:21:00 > 0:21:03and he knew about these countries because of the research.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06He did all the research, he read like mad.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10He kept everything which might possibly be of interest
0:21:10 > 0:21:15from newspapers, magazines, catalogues, from railway timetables.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17The most amazing variety of materials.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21He would cut out, stick on a bit of cardboard and he would file.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24He was like a sponge,
0:21:24 > 0:21:29he was able and willing and wanting to absorb as much information as he could.
0:21:58 > 0:22:03One of his favourite places was the Cinquantenaire museum in Brussels.
0:22:03 > 0:22:08The obvious book in this respect is the one after the Blue Lotus
0:22:08 > 0:22:11which is the Broken Ear, which takes its cue from a museum piece.
0:22:11 > 0:22:16When he goes abroad, all the locations you see are real locations
0:22:16 > 0:22:18taken from the cuttings.
0:22:18 > 0:22:24It's almost like his escapism is taken to the absolute extreme
0:22:24 > 0:22:27and yet he himself can never go anywhere.
0:22:27 > 0:22:31For decades, he never leaves his desk.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34It's almost like there's a deal between him and the abbe,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37him and the paper, whereby within
0:22:37 > 0:22:40this safe, suburban, Catholic, right-wing world,
0:22:40 > 0:22:46there's this tiny bubble in which his alter-ego, Tintin,
0:22:46 > 0:22:50can do anything, go anywhere, right any wrong.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54There we have him talking of the limits of his childhood
0:22:54 > 0:22:58and how limited he felt, in that he couldn't break out of it,
0:22:58 > 0:23:02but this was a form of expression, of him expressing himself,
0:23:02 > 0:23:04the values he had,
0:23:04 > 0:23:08that you should always do good, you should support the underdog,
0:23:08 > 0:23:10you should resist any unfairness,
0:23:10 > 0:23:12and this is exactly what Tintin is doing.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14Tintin is fighting for justice.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17If you look at King Ottokar's Sceptre,
0:23:17 > 0:23:20it is a fairly detailed bit of work
0:23:20 > 0:23:23attacking a country called Borduria,
0:23:23 > 0:23:26which is such a thinly disguised nazi Germany
0:23:26 > 0:23:30that they even have German planes in it, and things like that.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34So, you know, he's in quite a dangerous situation,
0:23:34 > 0:23:38attacking Germany at the end of the Thirties.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46He had this great freedom in the Thirties
0:24:46 > 0:24:49and great success, the two went together.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53But this very cosy setup - hard work, yes, but very secure -
0:24:53 > 0:24:59of course, was shattered the moment the Germans occupied Brussels.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05What of Herge? What of Tintin?
0:25:06 > 0:25:10Was it the end of Tintin? What was going to happen to Herge?
0:25:10 > 0:25:13The Vingtieme Siecle, the paper which had seen his success,
0:25:13 > 0:25:16was immediately closed down by the nazis
0:25:16 > 0:25:18because it was a Church paper
0:25:18 > 0:25:21and was therefore considered to be threatening.
0:25:21 > 0:25:27He then had a job offer fairly quickly from Le Soir,
0:25:27 > 0:25:30which was Belgium's leading newspaper,
0:25:30 > 0:25:34and he was asked, "Why don't you continue Tintin in Le Soir?"
0:25:34 > 0:25:39"We'll create a supplement for children, call it Le Soir Jeunesse,
0:25:39 > 0:25:41"and Tintin can continue where he left off."
0:25:41 > 0:25:45Herge thought, "Marvellous!" It seemed too good to refuse.
0:25:45 > 0:25:50The next thing, the nazis realise the importance of Le Soir
0:25:50 > 0:25:51and take over control of it.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54So Le Soir continues but under the control of the nazis.
0:25:54 > 0:26:00So we have the most unfortunate fact that Tintin is appearing
0:26:00 > 0:26:05underneath reports of the Wehrmacht victories on the Eastern Front.
0:26:07 > 0:26:10NEWSREEL COMMENTARY:
0:26:27 > 0:26:29HERGE:
0:26:47 > 0:26:50I understood that the subject was taboo.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53That was the big question about Herge,
0:26:53 > 0:26:55his views during the war.
0:26:58 > 0:27:03During the war, Herge stayed in contact with Reverend Wallez
0:27:03 > 0:27:07and he encouraged him to work for Le Soir.
0:27:07 > 0:27:12You had to support the Germans in their fight against Soviet communism.
0:27:12 > 0:27:14But Herge was warned by several people.
0:27:18 > 0:27:22Brussels, October 16th 1940.
0:27:22 > 0:27:26As a father of a large family, let me express my sorrow
0:27:26 > 0:27:29at seeing Tintin and Snowy printed in the new Le Soir.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32From the margins of your amusing drawings,
0:27:32 > 0:27:35children are being influenced by the new German heathenism.
0:27:35 > 0:27:40I ask you to reconsider. If it is possible, back out.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43I apologise for not signing this, but times are uncertain.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09Go back to Satan!
0:28:09 > 0:28:11To your master!
0:28:20 > 0:28:24Suddenly, all the Tintin stories change radically,
0:28:24 > 0:28:28they're all about buried treasure, they're all about meteorites.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31Politics vanishes.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33It's completely neutral,
0:28:33 > 0:28:37there is no statement for or against the regime he's under.
0:28:37 > 0:28:41I think Tintin gets even better in the war
0:28:41 > 0:28:44because he goes for this escapist stuff.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48He has to go for richer storylines
0:28:48 > 0:28:51and he has to come up with regular characters
0:28:51 > 0:28:55and this is where you get Captain Haddock, Professor Calculus,
0:28:55 > 0:28:59the Thompson Twins, old characters who here come into their own.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02This whole cast of characters comes in
0:29:02 > 0:29:03and Herge himself,
0:29:03 > 0:29:08who had previously written himself into the stories as Tintin,
0:29:08 > 0:29:11who was Herge's fantasy, the young man travelling the world,
0:29:11 > 0:29:16righting wrongs - now, Captain Haddock is Herge.
0:29:16 > 0:29:23Haddock is the recalcitrant, frankly pissed-off middle-aged man
0:29:23 > 0:29:26who just wishes the world would go away and leave him be.
0:29:26 > 0:29:27From that point on,
0:29:27 > 0:29:30there's a very different texture to the Tintin books.
0:29:30 > 0:29:35Tintin and Herge are escaping from the realities of daily life
0:29:35 > 0:29:36in an occupied country.
0:29:38 > 0:29:41It is the fantastic, it's the world of dreams
0:29:41 > 0:29:46and it's quite unlike anything we've come across in Herge before.
0:29:54 > 0:29:56SMASH
0:29:59 > 0:30:01They're the one I remember.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07Here's one where he is looking through a telescope
0:30:07 > 0:30:10and he sees a really huge spider and gets really afraid.
0:30:11 > 0:30:15His dog finds out it's just a little spider who was on the lens.
0:30:15 > 0:30:18But at the end, when they look again,
0:30:18 > 0:30:22the spider is not there any more and they think it is the end of the world
0:30:22 > 0:30:26and then a lot of strange things happen, which I don't quite remember.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29Everybody is breaking into an unnatural sweat,
0:30:29 > 0:30:31the rats are coming out of the sewers,
0:30:31 > 0:30:34everybody has come out into the street to see what's going on,
0:30:34 > 0:30:38there's a prophet of doom calling on everyone to repent,
0:30:38 > 0:30:40the day of judgment is at hand,
0:30:40 > 0:30:44which is clearly war inspired - where are things going?
0:30:44 > 0:30:47It's a real sense that the world's gone mad.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49Everything is going to be smashed up,
0:30:49 > 0:30:53there's going to be no future.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33Look here. What do you see?
0:31:35 > 0:31:38It looks like a huge ball of fire.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42Yes, a huge ball of fire.
0:31:42 > 0:31:44An enormous ball of fire.
0:31:44 > 0:31:47It's headed straight towards us as an incredible speed.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49Is it coming towards us?
0:31:49 > 0:31:52It's not going to hit us, is it?
0:31:54 > 0:31:56The ball will collide with the earth.
0:31:56 > 0:32:00Good heavens! That means...
0:32:00 > 0:32:03Yes, the end of the world.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21When the British tanks rolled into Brussels in September 1944,
0:32:21 > 0:32:24and the Germans were kicked out,
0:32:24 > 0:32:28that very night, everybody who had worked for a paper
0:32:28 > 0:32:30which had published under the Germans,
0:32:30 > 0:32:33in other words, was considered to have been a collaborator,
0:32:33 > 0:32:36they were all rounded up, including Herge.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41He must have been totally disoriented.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44Everything crumbled.
0:32:44 > 0:32:49Even Reverend Wallez, who had said Herge was on the right side,
0:32:49 > 0:32:54was arrested as a nazi sympathiser and spent several years in jail.
0:33:26 > 0:33:28He suffered tremendously.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32There was an edict that no journalist could work at all
0:33:32 > 0:33:35so you weren't allowed to work, in fact, for a two-year period.
0:33:35 > 0:33:38I mean, he was in the wilderness.
0:34:30 > 0:34:31Which sounded great.
0:34:31 > 0:34:34He'd been saved, he'd have his own magazine
0:34:34 > 0:34:37and he took the opportunity, he took the chance,
0:34:37 > 0:34:40but in practice, he was no longer his own boss,
0:34:40 > 0:34:43no longer the boss of his own destiny.
0:34:43 > 0:34:46They owner of Tintin magazine, Raymond Leblanc,
0:34:46 > 0:34:49wanted Herge to produce two pages a week
0:34:49 > 0:34:55of very, very dense, carefully researched colour material.
0:34:55 > 0:34:59Every single drawing of a place had to be from a photograph.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02That is a really tall order.
0:35:02 > 0:35:05He was expected to churn material out.
0:35:06 > 0:35:09He really was under the thumb.
0:35:20 > 0:35:25It led to several breakdowns where he found he just couldn't continue
0:35:25 > 0:35:28and escaped - he disappeared, nobody knew where he was.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32He went off to Switzerland
0:35:32 > 0:35:35and several weeks later sent a postcard from Switzerland
0:35:35 > 0:35:37saying that's where he was.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41Even his wife didn't quite know what was going on.
0:35:42 > 0:35:46Dear Georges, you clearly have talent.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48You educate the children whilst amusing them.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50You teach them right and wrong -
0:35:50 > 0:35:54that's not so bad, you should be happy.
0:35:54 > 0:35:59Dear Germaine, I'm tired of always writing the same story.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02I'm tired of churning stories out.
0:36:02 > 0:36:04I have suffered much since the war.
0:36:04 > 0:36:08My boy scout spirit has suffered blows.
0:36:08 > 0:36:10I see the world differently.
0:36:11 > 0:36:16Dear Georges, if you won't come home for my sake,
0:36:16 > 0:36:18then come home for Tintin's.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31The solution in the end was that he started his own studio
0:36:31 > 0:36:35and to have his own studio gave him a measure of artistic independence.
0:36:37 > 0:36:42In setting up the studios in the Avenue Louise I think he felt
0:36:42 > 0:36:45he was getting away from commercial pressures
0:36:45 > 0:36:47and could continue his work in peace,
0:36:47 > 0:36:52where you get talented assistants, people you know and trust,
0:36:52 > 0:36:58to do some of the legwork, some of the basic work and so on,
0:36:58 > 0:37:00the time-consuming things.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03A period of great detail,
0:37:03 > 0:37:06where could indulge in his passion for realism.
0:37:06 > 0:37:11His fundamental love and belief in realism
0:37:11 > 0:37:13being the secret to a good adventure,
0:37:13 > 0:37:16it has to be a realistic adventure.
0:37:22 > 0:37:27In The Calculus Affair, we have the scenes in Geneva absolutely exact.
0:37:27 > 0:37:33The road to Nyon is absolutely as one would find it now.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35Every detail is there.
0:37:35 > 0:37:38It is hyper-realism.
0:37:41 > 0:37:47There's a kind of obsession with getting every last thing right.
0:37:47 > 0:37:51That kind of attention to detail is laudable artistically,
0:37:51 > 0:37:54it makes the books brilliant, but you also have to wonder,
0:37:54 > 0:37:58there's almost a sort of mania to perfection.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42I could sense the conflict in him,
0:39:43 > 0:39:48between the pressure he was under and the desire to be free.
0:39:51 > 0:39:55TRANSLATION: All sorts of pressure, which went right back to the start.
0:39:59 > 0:40:02The pressure was so clear at that moment
0:40:02 > 0:40:05that I wanted to ask something very specific.
0:43:01 > 0:43:05I am alone in my house.
0:43:05 > 0:43:09I suddenly see some children in the garden playing in the snow.
0:43:09 > 0:43:13I go out to throw some snowballs at the children
0:43:13 > 0:43:16but they're gone.
0:43:17 > 0:43:19Then I see a black cliff in the snow.
0:43:20 > 0:43:25I go closer and see the entrance to a tunnel, which I enter.
0:43:25 > 0:43:30At first it's easy but, the further I go, the steeper it gets.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34Finally, I see a light above me,
0:43:34 > 0:43:35from the dazzling, white sky
0:43:35 > 0:43:38and a snow-covered landscape.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48I try to crawl up to get out
0:43:48 > 0:43:52but some iron bars keep me imprisoned.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54Tchang!
0:43:58 > 0:44:01Tchang!
0:44:08 > 0:44:14This page shows the very end of Coke En Stock, Red Sea Sharks.
0:44:14 > 0:44:18We see his ideas for the next...where Tintin's going next,
0:44:18 > 0:44:22where HE'S going next, where Herge himself is.
0:44:22 > 0:44:29We see here, among the various ideas, is one suggesting Tibet.
0:44:31 > 0:44:34This was where Herge's mind was going.
0:44:35 > 0:44:38The great snow-capped Himalayas,
0:44:38 > 0:44:40all the snow.
0:44:42 > 0:44:47This was where he was going to send Tintin.
0:44:48 > 0:44:50Why do they end up in Tibet?
0:44:50 > 0:44:52Why have they travelled that way?
0:44:53 > 0:44:57There has to be a reason.
0:44:58 > 0:45:02A letter from his old friend Tchang, who writes that he's coming.
0:45:04 > 0:45:07But he doesn't arrive, he has disappeared.
0:45:12 > 0:45:15The wreckage of the aeroplane covered in snow,
0:45:15 > 0:45:20snow storms, it's all there, it's all...
0:45:20 > 0:45:26the turbulent thoughts which are going in Herge's mind are expressed.
0:45:27 > 0:45:32And there's a point where Tintin is hanging on a rope
0:45:32 > 0:45:34with Captain Haddock at the other end
0:45:34 > 0:45:37and he's about to commit suicide.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40His marriage was breaking up at that point,
0:45:40 > 0:45:44so there's another strong case for an analogy there,
0:45:44 > 0:45:48that it's better for one of us to fall down a cliff and the other one to live
0:45:48 > 0:45:51than both of us to go to our doom together.
0:47:22 > 0:47:23BUZZER
0:47:54 > 0:47:59TV COMMENTARY: Two stars meet. Herge, Tintin's creator,
0:47:59 > 0:48:02and the American painter, Andy Warhol,
0:48:02 > 0:48:06also called the Pope of Pop Art.
0:48:06 > 0:48:11- Really, I admire your work.- You like comic strips?- Oh, yeah, I do.
0:48:11 > 0:48:13That's pop art also, isn't it?
0:48:16 > 0:48:19'Herge was very keen to be a modern artist,
0:48:19 > 0:48:22'he always wanted to be an artist.
0:48:22 > 0:48:24'He called himself Herge and not Georges Remi
0:48:24 > 0:48:29'because he was saving the name Georges Remi for the days when he would have the time.'
0:48:29 > 0:48:34And finally, after all those decades of doing Tintin,
0:48:34 > 0:48:37he sits down, he does modern abstract paintings.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52He took them down to the curator of the Art Museum in Brussels
0:48:52 > 0:48:54for a verdict
0:48:54 > 0:48:57and the man was already a fan of Tintin.
0:48:58 > 0:49:01The result was not good.
0:49:01 > 0:49:04The man said, "Don't give up the day job.
0:49:04 > 0:49:07"I'm afraid these do not match up to Tintin."
0:49:40 > 0:49:44It's not like Lucky Luke, where a new comic book comes out each year,
0:49:44 > 0:49:50With Tintin, it took three, four, five, then six years.
0:49:50 > 0:49:53It took longer and longer.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58It was obvious that he would rather be doing something else.
0:49:58 > 0:50:01Maybe that's why he was pleased I'd come,
0:50:01 > 0:50:02so he didn't have to work.
0:52:03 > 0:52:05And then it was over.
0:52:05 > 0:52:09We'd been together for four days
0:52:09 > 0:52:11and now he had to work.
0:52:11 > 0:52:15The studio was full of work demanding his attention.
0:52:15 > 0:52:19He said that he had to throw me out.
0:52:19 > 0:52:22We couldn't spend an hour more.
0:52:22 > 0:52:26It was strange how he clung onto the transcript of our conversation.
0:52:28 > 0:52:33It took two or three years before the script was ready.
0:52:33 > 0:52:36Herge continued to alter it.
0:52:36 > 0:52:39He looked at every single sentence,
0:52:39 > 0:52:43he made alterations and additions, erasions and deletions.
0:52:43 > 0:52:45He sent me the changes.
0:52:45 > 0:52:49I inserted them and sent them back to him. He wasn't satisfied.
0:52:49 > 0:52:55In the space of three years, he rewrote the text four times.
0:52:55 > 0:52:58When he read the text, he saw that he had said too much.
0:53:00 > 0:53:05So there's a major difference between the published text
0:53:05 > 0:53:08and the conversations which were recorded on tape.
0:53:14 > 0:53:17He was far from content.
0:53:18 > 0:53:20He had not found peace. Far from it.
0:53:24 > 0:53:29Herge spent his entire life...
0:53:29 > 0:53:32looking for wisdom.
0:53:38 > 0:53:41Brussels, June 10th 1973.
0:53:41 > 0:53:45I am writing because I am looking for a Chinese artist
0:53:45 > 0:53:49who is called Tchang Tchong-Jen.
0:53:49 > 0:53:54I've been trying to find Mr Tchang Tchong-Jen for years.
0:54:25 > 0:54:28Time had taken its toll on them.
0:54:28 > 0:54:33In addition, Herge was very ill and rather weak at that point.
0:54:33 > 0:54:36Given his weakened condition,
0:54:36 > 0:54:39you have to say that their meeting was heart-breaking.
0:54:39 > 0:54:42Just heart-breaking.
0:54:53 > 0:54:56It was a major media event
0:54:56 > 0:54:59which was covered on TV, in the papers and in the press.
0:54:59 > 0:55:02He was happy to see Tchang again.
0:55:02 > 0:55:04But it was also a marketing event.
0:55:24 > 0:55:29Maybe Herge needed an idealised friend...
0:55:31 > 0:55:35who could supply an unambiguously positive meaning...
0:55:37 > 0:55:41to a life that had been shattered by questions and doubts.
0:56:12 > 0:56:16It was very odd to sit and look at this very modest man.
0:56:17 > 0:56:21He was shy because he was celebrated.
0:56:21 > 0:56:24He was very ill. It was terrible.
0:56:26 > 0:56:28It was a kind of osteomyelofibrosis
0:56:28 > 0:56:33where the production of red blood cells stopped.
0:56:34 > 0:56:39The three years of illness almost became three years of meditation.
0:56:41 > 0:56:44He had a certain radiance,
0:56:44 > 0:56:46something very bright at that time.
0:56:49 > 0:56:52I remember that some friends visited him here
0:56:52 > 0:56:55and when a friend opened the door, she said,
0:56:55 > 0:56:58"Georges, you look like an angel!"
0:56:58 > 0:57:04And there really was something about him that had changed.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08He radiated a light.
0:57:31 > 0:57:33Everyone spoke of the clarity he had recovered.
0:57:33 > 0:57:38His secretary, his wife, his most recent employees.
0:57:39 > 0:57:42Everyone that was around him during his last days.
0:57:44 > 0:57:47Was he serene? I'm not so sure.
0:57:49 > 0:57:51But he created Tintin.
0:57:53 > 0:57:57All of his doubt, his insecurity and his anxiety,
0:57:57 > 0:57:59he used all of those elements.
0:57:59 > 0:58:04He projected them into his books and made them rich.
0:58:52 > 0:58:57Subtitles by Red Bee Media - 2006
0:58:57 > 0:58:59E-mail us at subtitling@bbc.co.uk