0:00:02 > 0:00:03This is the show that aims
0:00:03 > 0:00:05to give you the inside track
0:00:05 > 0:00:08on buying and selling antiques and collectables.
0:00:08 > 0:00:10We've got over ten years of 'Flog It!' behind us
0:00:10 > 0:00:12That's hundreds of programmes and thousands
0:00:12 > 0:00:14of your antiques valued and sold.
0:00:14 > 0:00:16I have an automatic gold detector
0:00:16 > 0:00:18in my fingertips.
0:00:18 > 0:00:20So stand by for some top tips,
0:00:20 > 0:00:22this is Trade Secrets.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52On today's show we'll be exploring a theme -
0:00:52 > 0:00:55where it's the weight of history or the personal stories
0:00:55 > 0:01:00behind an item which determine its value.
0:01:00 > 0:01:04'And, like it or not, there is a lot of interest
0:01:04 > 0:01:06'in collectables associated with conflict,
0:01:06 > 0:01:11'so today we have the market for war memorabilia firmly in our sights.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13'Coming up...
0:01:13 > 0:01:16'our experts tell you how to value weapons of war.'
0:01:16 > 0:01:20Whether or not you know the culture where an object's come from,
0:01:20 > 0:01:24the one thing that is consistent is patination.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27And we'll learn about the wartime surgical instruments
0:01:27 > 0:01:29that have become collectables.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31- And this is actually- the amputation saw?- Yes.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34That's the type of saw that would have been used.
0:01:38 > 0:01:42At almost every valuation day, people turn up with weapons
0:01:42 > 0:01:44of some kind - bullets, guns,
0:01:44 > 0:01:46shields, spears, war clubs,
0:01:46 > 0:01:49this is where our experts really do need to know
0:01:49 > 0:01:50their stuff.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54When is an object a beautiful antique and collectable weapon,
0:01:54 > 0:01:58or when is it just an illegal and dangerous weapon?
0:01:58 > 0:02:00In Cirencester,
0:02:00 > 0:02:03we were fortunate enough to have one of these things that sometimes
0:02:03 > 0:02:07does turn up on 'Flog It!' - a wonderful Polynesian war club.
0:02:07 > 0:02:12My father initially bought it at a house sale, way before the war.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14So I've always known it.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16Your father was very forward-thinking
0:02:16 > 0:02:19because, before the war, this sort of tribal art wasn't at all popular.
0:02:19 > 0:02:23'Tribal arts are much sought-after now because the indigenous nations'
0:02:23 > 0:02:27that it was originally taken from have achieved a level of wealth
0:02:27 > 0:02:31and maturity that they want to reclaim these items.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35But also major institutional European and American collections
0:02:35 > 0:02:38want to buy these for their own collections.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41Now, I will always be corrected by an expert in their field,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44but I've always regarded these as Oceanic.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47So, basically, Fijian war clubs.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50Especially when they're this paddle form.
0:02:50 > 0:02:54'Whether or not you know the culture where an object's come from,
0:02:54 > 0:02:58'the one thing that is consistent is patination'
0:02:58 > 0:03:02and that's what we look for, the build-up of grease and dirt
0:03:02 > 0:03:06and polish and wear and handling that shows that an item is either
0:03:06 > 0:03:0918th or 19th or 20th-century.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11The club certainly wasn't a tourist-made piece,
0:03:11 > 0:03:15it was an authentic, early, tribal club.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18I've had a look at it, I like the surface patination at the end
0:03:18 > 0:03:20and on the handle.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24So I'm quite happy to say that this is...
0:03:24 > 0:03:26early to mid 19th-century.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30The class of wares that people want are those that are original
0:03:30 > 0:03:33to the culture, not made when Europeans went over
0:03:33 > 0:03:35for the tourist trade.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39And the club was 18th-century that we saw at Cirencester,
0:03:39 > 0:03:42so that's, you know, it was carved for decorative pieces
0:03:42 > 0:03:45but also for bashing somebody's brains out.
0:03:45 > 0:03:51We'd be safe putting this in at, I think, £400-600.
0:03:51 > 0:03:56- Yes.- I'll be interested to see myself what it makes.- You'll be at auction?
0:03:56 > 0:03:58Oh, I will. Within a club's distance!
0:03:58 > 0:04:01So I will be sweating furiously.
0:04:01 > 0:04:05Did anyone at the auction also recognise that the club
0:04:05 > 0:04:06was a unique antique piece?
0:04:06 > 0:04:09We know these things are really hot right now
0:04:09 > 0:04:12because they're going back to their countries of origin.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16Museums are buying them up and they're paying top money, which is good news for you.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18Watch this, watch this, see what happens.
0:04:19 > 0:04:24Fijian carved wood tribal club. Super looking piece there.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27- Got to be one of my favourite pieces in the sale.- Oh, that's nice!
0:04:27 > 0:04:30Who will start me? 500 to get on.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33520. 540.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35560. 580.
0:04:35 > 0:04:36600.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38620.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40640. 660.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42680. 700.
0:04:42 > 0:04:43720.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45750.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47780. 800.
0:04:47 > 0:04:48820.
0:04:48 > 0:04:50850.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52880. 900.
0:04:53 > 0:04:55950. 1,000.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57- At 1,000.- The magic number.
0:04:57 > 0:04:591,000.
0:04:59 > 0:05:01And 50 if you like, on the phone. 1,050.
0:05:01 > 0:05:041,100. At 1,100.
0:05:04 > 0:05:071,150, if you like now. 1,150 on the phone now.
0:05:07 > 0:05:08At 1,150.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12It's on the phone now. At 1,150...
0:05:14 > 0:05:17- I'm happy with that.- £1,150.
0:05:17 > 0:05:19Of course you're happy with that!
0:05:20 > 0:05:22Collectors should look out for me
0:05:22 > 0:05:26and not take my advice when they're selling tribal clubs.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28Well, thank you, Michael.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31But I can tell you, if you have an old weapon, look at its patina
0:05:31 > 0:05:36and the materials to date it. But be aware, these can be copied
0:05:36 > 0:05:38so you should get some expert advice.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43Our expert Charlie Ross knew exactly what he was looking at.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47Nick, you look absolutely terrifying.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51Fancy coming into the Sheldonian in Oxford with these!
0:05:51 > 0:05:54When I saw the Zulu spear and shield,
0:05:54 > 0:05:58I immediately thought back to Rorke's Drift.
0:05:58 > 0:06:03- My grandfather went to the Sudan in the 1880s, 1890s.- Yeah.
0:06:03 > 0:06:06- He wasn't in the Services, so... - Was he not?- No.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10So he didn't win it as a trophy at Rorke's Drift.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13Not as far as I know! He never mentioned it.
0:06:13 > 0:06:15It's from South Africa.
0:06:15 > 0:06:19It's a Zulu shield and I think that dates from 1880, 1890,
0:06:19 > 0:06:23which of course is the time pre-World War, the Zulu wars.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26It's an extraordinary part of history, really.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28And in remarkable condition.
0:06:28 > 0:06:32I thought, in a rather whimsical way, that perhaps this had come back
0:06:32 > 0:06:37from Rorke's Drift, one of the great battles in British history.
0:06:37 > 0:06:42More VCs won at the Battle of Rorke's Drift than in any other battle in history.
0:06:42 > 0:06:47About 150 British and colonial soldiers withstood an attack
0:06:47 > 0:06:53by over 3,000 Zulu warriors at the Battle of Rorke's Drift in 1879.
0:06:54 > 0:06:57I'm intrigued by the latticework of weaving more skin into it,
0:06:57 > 0:07:00which also has a functional purpose.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02It provides the handle, doesn't it?
0:07:02 > 0:07:03Which is really interesting.
0:07:03 > 0:07:07Just leaving out a couple of notches forms a handle.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10- It's incredibly hard, isn't it?- It is.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13You think, all right, it wouldn't have stopped a bullet going through
0:07:13 > 0:07:15there, but I think if you chucked a spear at it,
0:07:15 > 0:07:18it would have to be thrown pretty hard to get through that.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21'It was a zebra-skin shield. I hadn't picked that up.'
0:07:21 > 0:07:24When I first saw it, I thought, "It's a shield.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26"It's a Zulu shield."
0:07:26 > 0:07:31But it was a zebra-skin shield, which I was told afterwards.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34It meant that it was ceremonial, so it was a rare shield.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37All the other shields were made out of cowhide,
0:07:37 > 0:07:39so this was a particularly...
0:07:39 > 0:07:43It was the Rolls-Royce of shields, if you could use that expression.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46And it was quite obviously over 100 years old
0:07:46 > 0:07:50and I think we can accept what happened 100 years ago.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53Had that shield represented the killing, for example,
0:07:53 > 0:07:57of a zebra last week or the week before, we certainly,
0:07:57 > 0:07:59in no way, would countenance that.
0:07:59 > 0:08:04The spear is also Zulu. Beautifully made, actually.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07And look at the age on it, it's amazing, isn't it?
0:08:07 > 0:08:12And it's become rock, rock solid hard. Value - any ideas?
0:08:12 > 0:08:15- You hoped it was worth something when you brought it in.- Of course.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18- Yes.- I think you've got a value here of between £100-200.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23- Really?- Yeah.- That has surprised me. - Has it?- Yes.- That's good.- Yes.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Because sometimes we get people on the programme who almost hit me
0:08:26 > 0:08:29when I tell them what things are worth!
0:08:29 > 0:08:32Watch out, Charlie, few of those people were armed.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35Will he be any safer at the auction?
0:08:35 > 0:08:37- I've checked with the auctioneer. - Yeah.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40- He said it could do a little bit better.- Oh, really?
0:08:40 > 0:08:43- Just a little bit.- That would be pleasant.- That would be.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48The zebra-skin shield. Zulu one.
0:08:48 > 0:08:49And what can we say for that -
0:08:49 > 0:08:51a couple of hundred pounds start me for it.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54500 I am bid. 550 anywhere?
0:08:54 > 0:08:57£500. 550. 6.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01650. 7. 750. 8.
0:09:01 > 0:09:03850. 850. At £800, then.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06Coming to you now, Pat, at 850.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08£850.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11- I can't believe it!- 850.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13850.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16900. 950.
0:09:18 > 0:09:201,000.
0:09:22 > 0:09:251,100 I'm bid. 1,150.
0:09:25 > 0:09:26Oh, no.
0:09:28 > 0:09:30£1,100 then, with Alan.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34All done. then? It's with Alan at £1,100,
0:09:34 > 0:09:36are you all done at £1,100?
0:09:36 > 0:09:38All finished?
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Yes! £1,100!
0:09:41 > 0:09:45I told you something fabulous was going to happen today, didn't I?
0:09:46 > 0:09:49Not 100-200, but 1,100.
0:09:49 > 0:09:51How do you guys manage it?
0:09:51 > 0:09:55'I was absolutely astonished by the sale price.'
0:09:55 > 0:09:57I think if somebody had pointed out to me that it was
0:09:57 > 0:10:01a particularly rare ceremonial shield, then I might have put
0:10:01 > 0:10:04400-600 on it, but £1,100 seemed to me a huge amount of money.
0:10:04 > 0:10:08Authentic tribal items dating from before they were produced
0:10:08 > 0:10:11for tourists are highly sought-after.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14But be careful. There are subtleties in this specialist field
0:10:14 > 0:10:17that can stump even our most enthusiastic experts,
0:10:17 > 0:10:19so get some advice.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24But sometimes the expertise we are looking for can come
0:10:24 > 0:10:26from those of you who appear on Flog It!
0:10:27 > 0:10:29I have to be frank with you.
0:10:29 > 0:10:33Whenever I see weapons on the show, I'm terrified.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37As I have very little knowledge of them.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41Fortunately, when this Smith and Wesson revolver came in
0:10:41 > 0:10:46to Herne Bay, the owner knew all about it.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48It's a Smith and Wesson.
0:10:48 > 0:10:52It's a .310-calibre rim-fire.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55It's what is also called a lock-up.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59So rather than me educating him, he actually educated me.
0:10:59 > 0:11:03- Explain that. Can you show us what that is?- Certainly.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06What you do is you cock the gun, take out the barrel...
0:11:06 > 0:11:11You then push out the old cartridges with that piece, reload.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Put it back in again, lock it up.
0:11:14 > 0:11:16And it's got what they call the hidden trigger as well,
0:11:16 > 0:11:19- so it's safe in somebody's pockets. - So you don't blow your leg off.
0:11:19 > 0:11:24- Exactly.- Smith and Wesson are a very iconic American gun manufacturers.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28Started in the mid-19th century, they were very inventive
0:11:28 > 0:11:30throughout that time in the manufacturing
0:11:30 > 0:11:34and design of weaponry, which really puts them up there
0:11:34 > 0:11:37with Colt for well-known gun collectables.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39Where did you get it from?
0:11:39 > 0:11:42I had a very good friend, he was ex-Navy, same as I was.
0:11:42 > 0:11:46And when he left the Navy after the war, he became a bookmaker,
0:11:46 > 0:11:47a London bookmaker,
0:11:47 > 0:11:50and he got friendly with another bookmaker
0:11:50 > 0:11:52who was quite older than him.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56He asked him if he would like this when this bookmaker was retiring,
0:11:56 > 0:12:01and he said that he was issued with it by the Pinkerton Detective Agency.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04- Really?- Yes. For his own protection. He carried money.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06And that was in the 1890s.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09- HE GASPS - Straight out of Agatha Christie.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13I think a sensible estimate is £300-500.
0:12:13 > 0:12:16- Is that something you'd be happy with?- Oh, yes.
0:12:16 > 0:12:18- It's better than being in the safe. - Of course.
0:12:23 > 0:12:27The Smith and Wesson lock-up patent five-shot calibre revolver.
0:12:27 > 0:12:31Good thing, this. Several bids. Starting at £360.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34I'm looking for 380. 380. 400.
0:12:34 > 0:12:35And 20.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40- 440. 460.- This is good.
0:12:40 > 0:12:41480. 500.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47No? It's at £480 on my right now. Any further offer?
0:12:47 > 0:12:48Any further bid in the room?
0:12:48 > 0:12:52If not, I'll sell at £480, the bid is on my right. At 480.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55If we're all done, at 480...
0:12:55 > 0:12:57- Top end of the estimate.- We're happy with that.- We're very happy.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01- Thank you very much.- Are you, Ted? - Yeah, not half!- Good.
0:13:04 > 0:13:05The thing that helped us
0:13:05 > 0:13:08make such a good price at auction was the fact that it had
0:13:08 > 0:13:12never been fired, therefore it was in pristine condition.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15What do we always say whenever you are buying?
0:13:15 > 0:13:17Condition, condition, condition.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22An iconic name like Smith and Wesson will always secure a good price.
0:13:22 > 0:13:26And, as Mark says, condition is everything,
0:13:26 > 0:13:29so let's have a look at some of those trade secrets in detail.
0:13:29 > 0:13:33Weaponry really is a very specialist field,
0:13:33 > 0:13:37with complicated laws around its use. So listen carefully.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40Authentic tribal pieces have much greater value,
0:13:40 > 0:13:42so try to date it from the materials.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44By all means do some research.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48But get expert help to be sure and look out for classic names
0:13:48 > 0:13:51and great condition for a sure-fire piece.
0:13:51 > 0:13:55As far as guns go, you don't need a licence to buy an antique,
0:13:55 > 0:14:00but as antique isn't defined by law, how can you tell what you've got?
0:14:00 > 0:14:04One rule of thumb is that if you can get modern ammunition for it,
0:14:04 > 0:14:06it's not an antique.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09And make sure you only keep it as a curio
0:14:09 > 0:14:11and never use it as a firearm.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14It's always a good idea to buy from a reputable dealer
0:14:14 > 0:14:18and make sure you have the paperwork describing the weapon,
0:14:18 > 0:14:21but it's always best to check the law with a firearms specialist
0:14:21 > 0:14:24or the police before parting with your money.
0:14:28 > 0:14:33As we saw with the Zulu shield made from zebra skin, there are items
0:14:33 > 0:14:36that come to us on 'Flog It!' that can seem distasteful today.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38Some of these are made from ivory.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42In a moment, we'll be giving you some tips about how to spot
0:14:42 > 0:14:46the real thing, when it is and isn't OK to buy it.
0:14:46 > 0:14:50But first, here's a little bit about its murky history.
0:14:50 > 0:14:52It became popular in Europe
0:14:52 > 0:14:57when 19th-century colonialists made their way deep into Africa.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59There, they became enamoured with the smooth,
0:14:59 > 0:15:04creamy coloured tusks of elephants, which they called white gold
0:15:04 > 0:15:07and which came to be known as ivory.
0:15:07 > 0:15:11Soon, demand exploded, as rich westerners enjoyed the trend
0:15:11 > 0:15:15of all sorts of carved ivory trinkets.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17The repercussions were disastrous -
0:15:17 > 0:15:21a brutal trade in which human life was cheap,
0:15:21 > 0:15:25as local people were hounded to capture and kill elephants.
0:15:26 > 0:15:30Finally, in the late 1980s, there was a worldwide ban
0:15:30 > 0:15:32on the ivory trade,
0:15:32 > 0:15:35with a few exceptions made for stockpiled ivory.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39Here in Europe, the law says it's illegal to buy or sell ivory
0:15:39 > 0:15:41if it was carved after 1947,
0:15:41 > 0:15:44but whatever you think of it there's still a market for ivory
0:15:44 > 0:15:47carved before this date, like this beautifully carved box
0:15:47 > 0:15:52which appeared on 'Flog It!', having been turfed out of an attic.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55- So, do you like it?- Yeah. It's different. I like it.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59It's very intricate, isn't it? It's amazing carving, actually.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01- It's carved from ivory.- Yeah.
0:16:01 > 0:16:05And it dates from the end of the 19th century, so over 100 years old,
0:16:05 > 0:16:09and it's Cantonese, made for export, export ware.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12- Any idea what that's worth? - No.- 20 quid?
0:16:12 > 0:16:14- Higher.- £50?
0:16:14 > 0:16:17- Higher.- £100?
0:16:19 > 0:16:21I'm not sure.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25I think that's where I'd put the reserve, about 100, 80-100.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27And I think it'll make 100-150.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32So, how did it do at auction?
0:16:34 > 0:16:35460, 480.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40- 500.- Well...- 500.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43- 520. 550. - THEY LAUGH
0:16:43 > 0:16:45- £550! Megan, they love this. - Oh, my God.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47- 600.- My goodness me.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49- 680.- Didn't you find it in a house?
0:16:49 > 0:16:53- Yeah.- What is Auntie going to say? - She'll go absolutely mental.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56780, on Jocelyn's phone. 780.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59Would anyone else like in at £780?
0:16:59 > 0:17:05She has just put the hammer down at £780.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07£780 is an incredible price.
0:17:07 > 0:17:13If ivory is old, at least pre-1947, collectors won't be put off,
0:17:13 > 0:17:16sometimes paying big money to enjoy a piece of exquisite
0:17:16 > 0:17:19craftsmanship and artistry.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21So, if you come across a piece of ivory,
0:17:21 > 0:17:23what should you be looking out for?
0:17:23 > 0:17:25One of the things ivory can be mistaken for
0:17:25 > 0:17:28is the less valuable bone,
0:17:28 > 0:17:31but there are ways to tell which you have,
0:17:31 > 0:17:34as our expert, Michael Baggott, explains.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37- As you might know, most of these are ivory.- Yes.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40They're actually all from Japan.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43- Right.- And the earliest one is this one here,
0:17:43 > 0:17:46and funnily enough, he isn't ivory.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49He's bone.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52And you can tell that because you've got that very coarse
0:17:52 > 0:17:54open-work grain.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58Plastic is used as a cheap modern copy. Try sticking a hot pin in it.
0:17:58 > 0:18:02If it's ivory, the pin won't penetrate.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06And some people might try to fake the age, so in this minefield
0:18:06 > 0:18:12find an expert to help you make sure your ivory dates from before 1947.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20We've all got something at home, that one special item
0:18:20 > 0:18:22that we're particularly attached to
0:18:22 > 0:18:26but I want to know what's the one thing our experts would
0:18:26 > 0:18:28rescue from a burning building?
0:18:29 > 0:18:30If there was a fire,
0:18:30 > 0:18:33apart from my children and my husband,
0:18:33 > 0:18:37it would be my great-grandfather's war medals, definitely.
0:18:37 > 0:18:42He was in the Somme from 1914 to 1916.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44It must have just been the most unimaginable hell
0:18:44 > 0:18:46and my granny, God bless her, is 102,
0:18:46 > 0:18:50his daughter, and still around today.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54She only has the very, very briefest of memories of him
0:18:54 > 0:19:00but that he sacrificed so much for us to be here today, really,
0:19:00 > 0:19:05is just a daily reminder that we shouldn't take everything for granted that we do.
0:19:06 > 0:19:10I think it's important for us to remember the past
0:19:10 > 0:19:15and what people have given and sacrificed so we can be here today.
0:19:25 > 0:19:29Our team of experts can tackle most things you put in front of them
0:19:29 > 0:19:30at a valuation day
0:19:30 > 0:19:34but they also have their own individual specialisms and passions.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38Now, Catherine Southon has a keen passion for the tools of war
0:19:38 > 0:19:40and navigation instruments.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but it is hers.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47So she jumped at the chance of killing two birds with one stone.
0:19:49 > 0:19:54HMS Victory, one of our most famous ships in British naval history,
0:19:54 > 0:19:58commanded by the great war hero, Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson.
0:19:58 > 0:20:03In 1805, he successfully drove Napoleon's French forces away
0:20:03 > 0:20:07in the Battle of Trafalgar and lost his life on board his great ship.
0:20:07 > 0:20:13What a perfect setting for Catherine to indulge her passions.
0:20:13 > 0:20:17I think my interest with the sea probably stems from my father
0:20:17 > 0:20:19being in the Navy.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21I've always had an interest in ships,
0:20:21 > 0:20:25not so much because of the construction but I think,
0:20:25 > 0:20:29really, because of what really went on on ships, the adventure.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35I started working at Sotheby's as a junior
0:20:35 > 0:20:38and I was just helping out doing the filing
0:20:38 > 0:20:42and writing all the letters, but I was actually drawn towards
0:20:42 > 0:20:45the maritime items and the scientific instruments.
0:20:45 > 0:20:49I was absolutely fascinated by this area and I went on to
0:20:49 > 0:20:53become head of maritime works of art and scientific instruments.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56Today is such a treat for me
0:20:56 > 0:21:01because I'm coming to visit HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship.
0:21:01 > 0:21:06Well, last time I came here, I was armed with a clipboard and a pencil.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10I was about 11 and I was on a school trip.
0:21:10 > 0:21:12But, just coming and looking around now,
0:21:12 > 0:21:15what really would have gone on here during the Battle of Trafalgar?
0:21:15 > 0:21:17Can you just paint the picture for me?
0:21:17 > 0:21:19This would've been a hive of activity.
0:21:19 > 0:21:23You could imagine during a battle, all the men manning the guns.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26You would have men up in the rigging, OK, sailing the ship
0:21:26 > 0:21:30cos the ship still has to manoeuvre, even during the battle.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32It would have been organised chaos.
0:21:34 > 0:21:39There would have been smoke, musket fire, splinters flying everywhere.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41As you can imagine, not a very...
0:21:41 > 0:21:44The noise, the blood everywhere and just these figures,
0:21:44 > 0:21:47just dancing around.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50- We're now standing on the poop deck?- Yes.
0:21:50 > 0:21:52And officers would have been up here?
0:21:52 > 0:21:53You would have had officers up here.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55This is like the bridge on a modern-day ship.
0:21:55 > 0:21:59But the senior officers would have been down on the quarterdeck,
0:21:59 > 0:22:02like Lord Nelson and Captain Hardy,
0:22:02 > 0:22:04because there was a lot more protection down there.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07In fact, down on the quarterdeck is actually where he was shot
0:22:07 > 0:22:09and you can see it's marked by the brass plaque on the deck.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13So he actually fell here?
0:22:13 > 0:22:15- Yes. Yes.- And then afterwards, down...
0:22:15 > 0:22:18He was carried down below to the orlop deck, where he died
0:22:18 > 0:22:20about three hours later.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23- And the orlop deck is where I'm heading next.- OK.- See you later.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25Thanks, Alan. Thank you.
0:22:28 > 0:22:31Today I'm meeting Mick Crumplin, who is a retired surgeon
0:22:31 > 0:22:35and curator of the Royal College of Surgeons' collection.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40- Mick, hi.- Hello, Catherine. - Good to meet you.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44So, when the casualties were brought down from the upper deck,
0:22:44 > 0:22:48this is what they were faced with. All these gruesome instruments.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51Well, of course, they had gruesome wounds, that's the problem.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55Here on the cockpit on the orlop deck was where they all congregated
0:22:55 > 0:22:58and, as you can see, we're very cramped in our operating style.
0:22:58 > 0:23:03I've got this vision of these casualties literally being...
0:23:03 > 0:23:08coming down the steps with their arms all bleeding. What was it like?
0:23:08 > 0:23:09Absolutely horrendous.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13You've got to remember, there were three surgeons, two juniors
0:23:13 > 0:23:15and the main surgeon of the ship, William Beatty,
0:23:15 > 0:23:18to do all these procedures on the patients who had been injured.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21Some of them would bleed out and die and were discharged dead
0:23:21 > 0:23:25before they could be treated, because they just overwhelmed the surgeon.
0:23:25 > 0:23:29So what are the most common injuries that the sailors had?
0:23:29 > 0:23:33Well, the commonest type of wound was an injured limb
0:23:33 > 0:23:37or a body cavity penetration by round shot or a shard of wood.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40So the men, when they were brought down bleeding and in pain,
0:23:40 > 0:23:44would need the bleeding controlled, the wounds trimming and dressed
0:23:44 > 0:23:48and perhaps closing up the wounds with needle and thread
0:23:48 > 0:23:52or adhesive or sticky plasters - we still use those today.
0:23:52 > 0:23:56We would then think about limbs that were so badly smashed
0:23:56 > 0:23:57that they had to be removed.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00But one of the things you did learn was how to control bleeding.
0:24:00 > 0:24:0310% of Nelson's crews were trained in the use
0:24:03 > 0:24:06of the field tourniquet, which was just a strap you put on the limb.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09So what you do is, you put the tourniquet on,
0:24:09 > 0:24:12having sat your patient on the end of a table.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14And you have people to restrain the poor fellow,
0:24:14 > 0:24:19and then you make an incision with a capital knife,
0:24:19 > 0:24:22which means a large knife, to...
0:24:23 > 0:24:28..go right round the limb to divide the muscle, the fat and the skin.
0:24:28 > 0:24:33Right down to bone, and then you use a tenon saw to divide the bone
0:24:33 > 0:24:36and that leg has to be steady during the procedure.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39- And this is actually the amputation saw?- Yes.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42That's the type of saw that would've been used.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44- Really?- It's just really like a carpenter's saw.
0:24:44 > 0:24:48That's the thing. Looking at it, that's exactly what you think.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51- It's the sort of thing you'd have in your tool box today.- Absolutely.
0:24:51 > 0:24:53Then you've got to stop the bleeding
0:24:53 > 0:24:58and then close the wound over the skin with adhesive tapes or stitches
0:24:58 > 0:25:01and bind it up in a linen bandage
0:25:01 > 0:25:05and put the patient down to rest and perhaps give him a cordial afterwards,
0:25:05 > 0:25:07some wine and water dilute.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09I think he'd probably need more than some cordial!
0:25:09 > 0:25:13- I'm sure he would think that, yes! - Something very stiff.
0:25:17 > 0:25:21When Nelson was brought down here, and presumably brought down
0:25:21 > 0:25:24to William Beatty because he was the senior surgeon,
0:25:24 > 0:25:27what would he have been faced with?
0:25:27 > 0:25:30I mean, there wasn't an awful lot they could do for him, obviously.
0:25:30 > 0:25:34No, I think he... Lord Nelson and William Beatty knew
0:25:34 > 0:25:38that his spine had been shot through and he had a severe chest wound
0:25:38 > 0:25:41and Beatty didn't spend all that long, he would have looked at him,
0:25:41 > 0:25:43looked for an exit wound, had him undressed.
0:25:43 > 0:25:47And as far as I know, he wasn't even given painkiller at that time,
0:25:47 > 0:25:48which is amazing.
0:25:48 > 0:25:51And he took him three and a quarter hours to die
0:25:51 > 0:25:55with his spinal cord divided and he had paraplegia, of course.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58So, Beatty and he agreed that his wound was mortal
0:25:58 > 0:26:00and nothing more could be done.
0:26:10 > 0:26:13Have you built up all this collection over a number of years?
0:26:13 > 0:26:16Yes, probably over about 40 years.
0:26:16 > 0:26:20But the thing is, the collection is not for hoarding and value.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22The value of a collection is using it
0:26:22 > 0:26:25so that you can teach people what it was really like.
0:26:25 > 0:26:30Right. But we have to say how beautifully some of them are made.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34I'm particularly focusing on this little shagreen set here
0:26:34 > 0:26:38- of the little lancets.- The thumb lancets.- I mean, that's just...
0:26:38 > 0:26:43For quite a gory little set of instruments, it's just... Oh!
0:26:43 > 0:26:46Oh! Beautifully made. It's lovely.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49Why do you think they're so important, though?
0:26:49 > 0:26:50It's not everyone's cup of tea.
0:26:50 > 0:26:55I like them because what we can do is teach people how surgery
0:26:55 > 0:26:58has developed, and it wasn't as crude as people thought,
0:26:58 > 0:27:01- given the time that we're working in...- Not at this time, no.
0:27:01 > 0:27:05The results at the end of this war that poor old Victory was involved in
0:27:05 > 0:27:07were absolutely amazing,
0:27:07 > 0:27:10with mortality rates around 11% in one hospital
0:27:10 > 0:27:12after a big battle, which is phenomenal.
0:27:12 > 0:27:1689% of patients walking out of hospital,
0:27:16 > 0:27:19so they must have known something and it was using instruments
0:27:19 > 0:27:21like these that contributed to that success.
0:27:21 > 0:27:22Well, it's been...
0:27:24 > 0:27:26..just fantastic. Absolutely brilliant.
0:27:26 > 0:27:30I could talk all day long about every single instrument,
0:27:30 > 0:27:33- but sadly we haven't got time. Thank you very much, Mick.- Not at all.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35- Lovely to meet you.- And you.
0:27:36 > 0:27:39What a fascinating, if gruesome, collection
0:27:39 > 0:27:42and a vital part of our maritime history.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45If you find one of these instruments and you're too faint-hearted
0:27:45 > 0:27:49or squeamish to keep it, as the professor says,
0:27:49 > 0:27:52there will be someone out there to take it off your hands.
0:27:58 > 0:28:00Well, Catherine's voyage of discovery
0:28:00 > 0:28:02proves that war memorabilia
0:28:02 > 0:28:05is about so much more than guns and medals.
0:28:05 > 0:28:08There are all kinds of items out there
0:28:08 > 0:28:10with a connection to conflict,
0:28:10 > 0:28:13and each one has a fascinating story to tell.
0:28:13 > 0:28:17So if you think you have something which might interest the collectors,
0:28:17 > 0:28:20dig it out and take it to your local auction house
0:28:20 > 0:28:21or, better still,
0:28:21 > 0:28:25bring it along to one of our valuation days.
0:28:25 > 0:28:26I hope you enjoyed the show.
0:28:26 > 0:28:30Join me again soon for many more trade secrets.