Vivienne Westwood Talks To Kirsty Wark

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0:00:01 > 0:00:03BBC Four Collections -

0:00:03 > 0:00:07specially chosen programmes from the BBC archive.

0:00:07 > 0:00:09# God save the Queen

0:00:09 > 0:00:11# She ain't no human being... #

0:00:12 > 0:00:15KIRSTY WARK: 'To many, Vivienne Westwood

0:00:15 > 0:00:17'will always be the queen of punk.

0:00:17 > 0:00:20'Along with her partner, the pop Svengali Malcolm McLaren,

0:00:20 > 0:00:24'they unleashed their provocative antifashion designs

0:00:24 > 0:00:26'upon '70s Britain.

0:00:26 > 0:00:28'Their shop on the King's Road in Chelsea

0:00:28 > 0:00:32'clothed anarchy's most famous advocates, the Sex Pistols,

0:00:32 > 0:00:34'and gave a generation of teenagers

0:00:34 > 0:00:37'arguably the most shocking street style ever.

0:00:42 > 0:00:48'But she's also the queen of the catwalk, lionised in Paris and Milan,

0:00:48 > 0:00:51'the champion of traditional British fabrics,

0:00:51 > 0:00:55'influencing, innovating and outraging in equal measure.

0:00:56 > 0:00:58'Now the Victoria and Albert Museum

0:00:58 > 0:01:01'has cemented Westwood's place in the fashion firmament

0:01:01 > 0:01:04'by staging its biggest ever exhibition

0:01:04 > 0:01:06'devoted to a fashion designer -

0:01:06 > 0:01:10'a major retrospective of her remarkable 34-year career.

0:01:14 > 0:01:16'Born in Glossop in 1941,

0:01:16 > 0:01:20'Vivienne Westwood began her working life as a teacher

0:01:20 > 0:01:22'in a primary school.

0:01:22 > 0:01:25'But today she presides over her own business empire

0:01:25 > 0:01:29'with a turnover approaching £50 million a year.

0:01:29 > 0:01:34'She's come a long way from her homely Derbyshire roots.

0:01:34 > 0:01:36'Yet Westwood still owns the same shop

0:01:36 > 0:01:38'where she and Malcolm McLaren pioneered

0:01:38 > 0:01:41'the aggressive DIY aesthetic of punk

0:01:41 > 0:01:45'and created cultural mayhem in the mid-'70s.'

0:01:46 > 0:01:50When you began, the idea of fashion for you was a political statement.

0:01:50 > 0:01:52Did you think that you were a revolutionary?

0:01:52 > 0:01:56I was anti...um...

0:01:56 > 0:01:58the injustice in the world.

0:01:58 > 0:02:01And I felt very terrible about what you hear about now,

0:02:01 > 0:02:03you know, everything that's still going on -

0:02:03 > 0:02:05you know, people suffering

0:02:05 > 0:02:09because of the way the world is so dreadfully mismanaged,

0:02:09 > 0:02:11and so I was all up for it, you know.

0:02:11 > 0:02:13Malcolm hated the older generation.

0:02:13 > 0:02:16He had different motives than I did for what we did.

0:02:16 > 0:02:21And... But I also hated the older generation in that time

0:02:21 > 0:02:24because I thought, you know, all the corruption in the world is due

0:02:24 > 0:02:27to people not doing anything about it.

0:02:27 > 0:02:29Nobody is protesting, nobody is...

0:02:29 > 0:02:32You know, they're all settled down and not doing anything.

0:02:32 > 0:02:37So I think it's very sane for young people to be angry.

0:02:37 > 0:02:39And that is what we were doing.

0:02:39 > 0:02:43And I wanted this look of an urban guerrilla. And that's...

0:02:43 > 0:02:45what we were after.

0:02:45 > 0:02:48It was a moment in your life when you were working,

0:02:48 > 0:02:51making clothes for the punk movement. You'd opened the King's Road shop.

0:02:51 > 0:02:55I just want to say that I was not making clothes for the punk movement.

0:02:55 > 0:02:57I want to tell you quite clearly that

0:02:57 > 0:03:00Malcolm and I invented that in that shop.

0:03:00 > 0:03:03And when we opened the doors, then people could buy it,

0:03:03 > 0:03:05and it got called punk.

0:03:05 > 0:03:07And I was very grateful because all of a sudden

0:03:07 > 0:03:11I didn't have people all making rude remarks about my spiky hair.

0:03:11 > 0:03:14They just shouted, "Punk!" after you.

0:03:14 > 0:03:17So they all knew what that was about, and it was OK.

0:03:17 > 0:03:20But did you think at that point it was a moment in your life,

0:03:20 > 0:03:23or did you know then that you would be making fashion

0:03:23 > 0:03:27and creating clothes for the rest of your life?

0:03:27 > 0:03:31No, I did not consider myself a fashion designer.

0:03:31 > 0:03:34I was simply helping Malcolm.

0:03:34 > 0:03:39There came a period when the Sex Pistols folded,

0:03:39 > 0:03:43and I'd had enough, and Malcolm had had enough.

0:03:43 > 0:03:49And I said to him, "Malcolm, you know, this has all come undone,

0:03:49 > 0:03:52"this Sex Pistols thing, it's all a disaster.

0:03:52 > 0:03:54"I can help you in the music business if you like,

0:03:54 > 0:03:57"or you can help me in the fashion business,"

0:03:57 > 0:03:59because he'd already been working so much on that.

0:03:59 > 0:04:02And he said, "Oh, fashion," immediately.

0:04:02 > 0:04:06Of course, you know, once that was decided, then he went off

0:04:06 > 0:04:11and started to work with Adam Ant and then on to his group Bow Wow Wow.

0:04:11 > 0:04:14And so I was left with this fashion baby.

0:04:14 > 0:04:16Had you found your metier?

0:04:16 > 0:04:18Had you decided that you were going to move culture on

0:04:18 > 0:04:19through your clothes,

0:04:19 > 0:04:22and therefore this was what your direction was going to be?

0:04:22 > 0:04:24No. When I look back on it,

0:04:24 > 0:04:28I don't think I could ever do a fashion that had such an impact.

0:04:28 > 0:04:31And when I say "I", you'll have to realise that

0:04:31 > 0:04:35I am referring to "we" when I speak, because I was with Malcolm.

0:04:35 > 0:04:38But nevertheless, I was the one doing it.

0:04:38 > 0:04:41And I realised that these things had been formed,

0:04:41 > 0:04:43that I'd made these fantastic clothes,

0:04:43 > 0:04:46and that people were copying them

0:04:46 > 0:04:49and that they were even on Paris catwalks,

0:04:49 > 0:04:51and I just thought,

0:04:51 > 0:04:55"I must exploit these things, otherwise I'm a stupid person.

0:04:55 > 0:04:58"I must get the benefit of this.

0:04:58 > 0:05:01"I must enter this business world, and start to really sell the clothes

0:05:01 > 0:05:05"and present them to journalists and be a fashion designer."

0:05:05 > 0:05:07I realised that I could be.

0:05:07 > 0:05:10What was it like preparing for your first catwalk show?

0:05:10 > 0:05:12Was it chaotic, was it last minute?

0:05:12 > 0:05:16I was up all night. I don't know how many days I had been up.

0:05:16 > 0:05:21And I do know that the day of the fashion show I...

0:05:22 > 0:05:24..I went to Olympia where the show was.

0:05:24 > 0:05:27I was ten minutes late, and I came,

0:05:27 > 0:05:30and there was this photographer, Michael Roberts,

0:05:30 > 0:05:31standing at the back.

0:05:31 > 0:05:34Everybody was listening to the show with all the music and stuff.

0:05:34 > 0:05:37I got hold of him and I said, "Do you know where the backstage is?"

0:05:37 > 0:05:39And he laughed, and he told me where to go.

0:05:39 > 0:05:42And then Malcolm said, "Well, if you want to, you can go and sit

0:05:42 > 0:05:46"and watch it because, you know, I'm sending the girls out."

0:05:46 > 0:05:51So I went and watched it, and I was just awestruck, I really was.

0:05:51 > 0:05:54I just...just forgot me and just entered this world.

0:05:54 > 0:05:55It was really wonderful.

0:05:55 > 0:05:58And at this time I was working from home.

0:05:58 > 0:06:00My front room. I had a sewing machine

0:06:00 > 0:06:03and a lady used to come and help me.

0:06:03 > 0:06:07And up until then, I'd had various rockers who used to call each day

0:06:07 > 0:06:11and stud all those clothes with me and stuff,

0:06:11 > 0:06:12so I really worked from home.

0:06:12 > 0:06:18I think I was working more or less alone, doing all the patterns,

0:06:18 > 0:06:23trying everything on my own body, cos I was a perfect size ten,

0:06:23 > 0:06:28and, um, eventually putting this thing together.

0:06:28 > 0:06:32And Malcolm would come and give me some suggestions for fabrics

0:06:32 > 0:06:34and prints and things,

0:06:34 > 0:06:38but there I was, working at home with outdoor workers.

0:06:38 > 0:06:42I would take things to people to sew for me.

0:06:42 > 0:06:45Presumably, some of the people that you took your stuff to sew

0:06:45 > 0:06:46were much older than you,

0:06:46 > 0:06:49and they would think, "What? Is this something that's come from Mars?"

0:06:49 > 0:06:51I mean, it's a completely...

0:06:51 > 0:06:53They were people, yeah, people, you know,

0:06:53 > 0:06:55who advertised in the local paper.

0:06:55 > 0:06:57I advertised in the local paper,

0:06:57 > 0:06:59and people who had a sewing machine replied,

0:06:59 > 0:07:00and, yes, I used to go and visit them.

0:07:08 > 0:07:11WARK: 'By 1983, Westwood and McLaren

0:07:11 > 0:07:13'were staging their collection in Paris.

0:07:13 > 0:07:17'Though their work was inspired by designs from European history,

0:07:17 > 0:07:20'the developing world and American hip-hop,

0:07:20 > 0:07:23'their approach seemed radical and new.

0:07:23 > 0:07:27'But Witches, the autumn/winter collection of that year,

0:07:27 > 0:07:30'was to be their last collaboration.

0:07:30 > 0:07:32'Westwood abandoned the street for the catwalk,

0:07:32 > 0:07:35'said goodbye to her former partner,

0:07:35 > 0:07:38'and embarked on her solo career in earnest.

0:07:46 > 0:07:49'But she retained her passion for the British materials

0:07:49 > 0:07:52'that had first emerged during the heyday of punk.'

0:07:55 > 0:07:57WESTWOOD: We had used some Harris Tweed.

0:07:57 > 0:08:01I had a bondage jacket in Harris Tweed in punk rock times.

0:08:01 > 0:08:03We did like Harris Tweed.

0:08:03 > 0:08:07It was when I was in Italy, and I was looking at fabrics,

0:08:07 > 0:08:12and I really missed the most essential basic fabrics,

0:08:12 > 0:08:14and couldn't find things.

0:08:14 > 0:08:17They were all fantasy fabrics or something a little bit different.

0:08:17 > 0:08:20When you're in Italy, that's the phrase you hear more than anything.

0:08:20 > 0:08:23"Oh, something different, a bit different."

0:08:23 > 0:08:25And it might be different, but it's not what I want.

0:08:25 > 0:08:29And I really missed the idea of these basic fabrics,

0:08:29 > 0:08:30and so,

0:08:30 > 0:08:33I did this very sort of kitsch English collection,

0:08:33 > 0:08:35and I wanted to use Harris Tweed.

0:08:35 > 0:08:39And I approached Harris Tweed and they sent me their swatches.

0:08:39 > 0:08:41And I think I chose 23...

0:08:41 > 0:08:44- Keep them going for a year! - ..different colourways.

0:08:44 > 0:08:47And that's when I came up with this idea of doing

0:08:47 > 0:08:49all this armour and stuff,

0:08:49 > 0:08:51putting all different Harris Tweeds together,

0:08:51 > 0:08:54because some of it reminds you of mist,

0:08:54 > 0:08:58and some of it reminds you of, I don't know, a dog's fur,

0:08:58 > 0:09:02or... It's just absolutely incredible stuff.

0:09:03 > 0:09:05I had a tailor as well, and he should know,

0:09:05 > 0:09:08cos he was a terrible tailor, and he said,

0:09:08 > 0:09:11"You can't make a bad jacket from Harris Tweed."

0:09:11 > 0:09:13It's a wonderful fabric to work with.

0:09:18 > 0:09:20And what about your connection with John Smedley?

0:09:20 > 0:09:23Was that because it reminded you of your childhood

0:09:23 > 0:09:26and growing up in that area, where Smedley's had their factory?

0:09:26 > 0:09:28No, I just wanted these basic things.

0:09:28 > 0:09:31I wanted to introduce fine knitwear.

0:09:31 > 0:09:33I think it's extremely fashionable,

0:09:33 > 0:09:37but I don't know whether it ever was considered fashion,

0:09:37 > 0:09:41because it's so English, but the idea of the twinset and pearls...

0:09:41 > 0:09:44And I've already mentioned, I was in Italy,

0:09:44 > 0:09:46and my manager, Carlo,

0:09:46 > 0:09:50introduced me to this lady who had the best knitwear company,

0:09:50 > 0:09:53and it was going to be wonderful - we were going to work together.

0:09:53 > 0:09:54And I said, "I have to have this fine knitwear,"

0:09:54 > 0:09:57and she said, "I don't have the machinery."

0:09:57 > 0:10:00She said, "Why do you want a fine sweater when you have a thick one?"

0:10:00 > 0:10:01believe it or not!

0:10:01 > 0:10:03I mean, you're looking like this, but, you see,

0:10:03 > 0:10:04you've all got used to it again.

0:10:04 > 0:10:08But I think one of the most sexy things imaginable

0:10:08 > 0:10:10is a little button-up cardigan.

0:10:10 > 0:10:13Just undo the top two buttons. It's brilliant.

0:10:13 > 0:10:15And it's really great on a man as well.

0:10:15 > 0:10:17I think they're the most sexy little things.

0:10:17 > 0:10:19They're like underwear, in a way.

0:10:19 > 0:10:22And yours had the orb as the little...

0:10:22 > 0:10:24- Mm. - ..badge, or brooch.

0:10:24 > 0:10:26- Mm. - Where did the idea

0:10:26 > 0:10:27for your logo come from?

0:10:27 > 0:10:30WESTWOOD: Well, this is again, it's another influence of a man,

0:10:30 > 0:10:32which is my manager, Carlo.

0:10:32 > 0:10:36And what I was doing... In this same period in Italy I was designing,

0:10:36 > 0:10:41and I did this sweater for Prince Charles. Very kitsch.

0:10:41 > 0:10:43I thought, "It's going to be so English.

0:10:43 > 0:10:44"It's the kind of thing he could wear

0:10:44 > 0:10:49"when he goes to his shooting... whatever season."

0:10:49 > 0:10:53And so it had thistles and roses and leeks and shamrocks,

0:10:53 > 0:10:56and all these sorts of motifs on it, and it had some lions on it.

0:10:56 > 0:10:59And it had...this word "deep sky",

0:10:59 > 0:11:02because I wanted to make it sort of futuristic,

0:11:02 > 0:11:06and so "deep sky" was all sort of done in computer-type lettering

0:11:06 > 0:11:09in knitwear, all Fair Isle, traditional Fair Isle sweater.

0:11:09 > 0:11:15And amongst this - these crowns and lions and dragons and things -

0:11:15 > 0:11:19there was a motif with an orb with a satellite ring round it.

0:11:19 > 0:11:21That's one of the things on it.

0:11:21 > 0:11:23And my manager said to me, "That is your symbol."

0:11:23 > 0:11:28He said, "You've got it. That's the logo. It sums you up completely."

0:11:28 > 0:11:31He said, "It's traditional and futuristic at the same time."

0:11:31 > 0:11:35And he said, "Do that, that's your logo." So I did it by accident,

0:11:35 > 0:11:36thanks to Prince Charles.

0:11:36 > 0:11:39Have you ever seen Prince Charles wearing the sweater?

0:11:39 > 0:11:41No, no, I never gave him one. I don't know...

0:11:41 > 0:11:43We've probably got one in our archive.

0:11:47 > 0:11:51WARK: 'Westwood's interest in history is evident in much of her work.

0:11:51 > 0:11:56'Since the early '80s, she's been rummaging through the V&A archives

0:11:56 > 0:11:59'and she doesn't confine herself to the costume department.'

0:12:00 > 0:12:04WESTWOOD: 'I have had several appointments here over the years

0:12:04 > 0:12:06'to look into the archives at the V&A,

0:12:06 > 0:12:10'as well as appreciating their permanent exhibition.

0:12:10 > 0:12:15I think it's not only a question of looking at applied arts

0:12:15 > 0:12:20'which are specific to my craft - printing and dressmaking -

0:12:20 > 0:12:25'I think also that you absorb the qualities of things.'

0:12:25 > 0:12:29Ah, this is brilliant. Clodion, by the looks of it. But, anyway...

0:12:32 > 0:12:34Clodion. Yeah, I'm right.

0:12:34 > 0:12:38I've never seen this before, but it's absolutely brilliant.

0:12:38 > 0:12:42'What I'm really touched by, really more than anything,

0:12:42 > 0:12:44'is human genius -

0:12:44 > 0:12:48'what people have been able to do in the past.'

0:12:51 > 0:12:56WARK: 'The V&A archive inspired one of Westwood's greatest successes.

0:12:56 > 0:12:59'For years, the whalebone corset had been despised

0:12:59 > 0:13:01'as the sartorial symbol of women's oppression,

0:13:01 > 0:13:04'but, brilliantly, Westwood reinvented it.'

0:13:06 > 0:13:10And here, this is the thing. This is the thing for the V&A.

0:13:10 > 0:13:16This is 1780s. The stitching is so perfect.

0:13:16 > 0:13:19WESTWOOD: Those things were made by tailors,

0:13:19 > 0:13:23and this is a corset from the 17th, 18th century.

0:13:23 > 0:13:26And what it does, it has no room for the bust at all,

0:13:26 > 0:13:28so the bust comes right out,

0:13:28 > 0:13:31and you've all seen those 17th-century Dutch paintings

0:13:31 > 0:13:34with people with their bust right under their chin.

0:13:34 > 0:13:36It really knocks it right up.

0:13:36 > 0:13:40And what I had realised is that you could do this

0:13:40 > 0:13:42as a ready-to-wear garment.

0:13:42 > 0:13:44What you could do is, you could have a bit less boning,

0:13:44 > 0:13:47put elastic side panels and a zip,

0:13:47 > 0:13:50so you wouldn't need a maid to lace you in.

0:13:50 > 0:13:53And we put back the possibility of this corset

0:13:53 > 0:13:56that could push your bust right out.

0:13:56 > 0:13:58And people loved it, and it's one of the things that

0:13:58 > 0:14:01I knew people would really, really like.

0:14:01 > 0:14:04And when I first showed it on the catwalk,

0:14:04 > 0:14:06the photographers,

0:14:06 > 0:14:09they just nearly died. They just nearly died.

0:14:09 > 0:14:11This little girl, it was Sadie Frost, actually,

0:14:11 > 0:14:15and she opened her coat, and they just made this noise.

0:14:15 > 0:14:17And then she went off the catwalk and they all said,

0:14:17 > 0:14:20"Come back, darling," they said to her.

0:14:20 > 0:14:21It was brilliant.

0:14:34 > 0:14:36This tartan outfit,

0:14:36 > 0:14:40just this position of it in the vitrine is something.

0:14:40 > 0:14:42It's just an absolute sensation.

0:14:42 > 0:14:47Because... This was worn by Linda Evangelista in a fashion show.

0:14:47 > 0:14:51And she's got a very, very high ghillie platform shoes

0:14:51 > 0:14:54and these legwarmers all to match.

0:14:54 > 0:14:56And so that's how high she would be.

0:14:56 > 0:14:59She would be really that kind of proportion,

0:14:59 > 0:15:03and so the whole thing is in this sort of area,

0:15:03 > 0:15:06and I just think if you look at a 19th-century engraving,

0:15:06 > 0:15:10you never would see anything more flamboyant, more extreme,

0:15:10 > 0:15:14more stylish, more chic than this thing.

0:15:14 > 0:15:18It's just got all this Scottish feeling in it.

0:15:18 > 0:15:21It's just incredibly lovely.

0:15:21 > 0:15:23I know I'm talking about my own clothes,

0:15:23 > 0:15:25but I'm just in love with them!

0:15:25 > 0:15:27Can't help it.

0:15:27 > 0:15:29This is another one of Linda,

0:15:29 > 0:15:34again wearing this divine hat by Prudence, who works with us.

0:15:34 > 0:15:38And there we are again. I mean, she did get absolutely great outfits,

0:15:38 > 0:15:40deservedly so.

0:15:40 > 0:15:44She's a wonderful favourite of me. I just think she's terrific, that girl.

0:15:45 > 0:15:48And here, this is a little bit more

0:15:48 > 0:15:52something that you can definitely wear in the daytime.

0:15:52 > 0:15:54Of course, these are showpieces.

0:15:54 > 0:15:58Here we have the little kilt made in the lace instead,

0:15:58 > 0:16:01and, I mean, it's just really, really sexy with a little sweater there

0:16:01 > 0:16:03and a hat.

0:16:03 > 0:16:05It's just stylish.

0:16:06 > 0:16:08In real life, that looks great.

0:16:16 > 0:16:19WARK: 'By the late '80s, Westwood had established herself

0:16:19 > 0:16:23'as one of the most influential designers in the world.

0:16:23 > 0:16:25'But her unorthodox designs

0:16:25 > 0:16:28'haven't always been as warmly appreciated by people at home.'

0:16:28 > 0:16:31AUDIENCE LAUGHTER

0:16:31 > 0:16:34- SUE LAWLEY: I mean, what sort... - If they don't stop laughing,

0:16:34 > 0:16:36I shall tell the next person not to come on.

0:16:36 > 0:16:38LAWLEY: Oh, dear. You're not to laugh.

0:16:38 > 0:16:42WESTWOOD: You can laugh, but look as well.

0:16:42 > 0:16:43It's really great.

0:16:43 > 0:16:45- Is this a winter collection? - Yeah.

0:16:45 > 0:16:47LAUGHTER

0:16:47 > 0:16:49These things are just really sophisticated.

0:16:49 > 0:16:50If you don't understand that...

0:16:50 > 0:16:54That is, but she looks like a chip shop, that one.

0:16:58 > 0:17:04WARK: 'Westwood's more outlandish designs are often headline grabbers.

0:17:04 > 0:17:07'And she's always managed her relationships with the media

0:17:07 > 0:17:09'very shrewdly.

0:17:09 > 0:17:12'And she isn't averse to exploiting her own notoriety

0:17:12 > 0:17:14'or resorting to self-parody -

0:17:14 > 0:17:16'a trait best instanced

0:17:16 > 0:17:18'when she posed as an ex-punk Thatcher

0:17:18 > 0:17:20'for a magazine shoot in 1989.'

0:17:22 > 0:17:26Tell me about your Tatler cover as Mrs Thatcher.

0:17:26 > 0:17:29There was a kind of uncanny resemblance. Were you an admirer?

0:17:31 > 0:17:34Not at all. I think Margaret Thatcher was a monster.

0:17:34 > 0:17:35I think Tony Blair's a monster.

0:17:35 > 0:17:39I couldn't say which is the worst of them both.

0:17:39 > 0:17:41But they are horrible, dangerous people.

0:17:41 > 0:17:44And, no, not at all.

0:17:44 > 0:17:48Um, I thought that she was the biggest hypocrite.

0:17:48 > 0:17:52And, um, that's why I was able... It was my acting skill.

0:17:52 > 0:17:55That is why I was able to capture her,

0:17:55 > 0:17:57because I just thought to myself,

0:17:57 > 0:18:01"I'm going to show all these people in the world how much I care."

0:18:01 > 0:18:02And...

0:18:02 > 0:18:05So I imagined a poor little child in a hospital bed,

0:18:05 > 0:18:09and this man, Michael Roberts, who took the picture, he was going mad.

0:18:09 > 0:18:12And he said, "No, you need one more thing.

0:18:12 > 0:18:15"Put into your mind, 'Do they believe me or not?'"

0:18:15 > 0:18:17And then he went... Cos I had it then,

0:18:17 > 0:18:20this little doubt - whether they believe you or not -

0:18:20 > 0:18:23and I completely got the woman. Yeah.

0:18:23 > 0:18:26It's funny, actually, because people used to talk about Margaret Thatcher

0:18:26 > 0:18:28as being a kind of very sexual being,

0:18:28 > 0:18:30that she kind of controlled her Cabinet round about her.

0:18:30 > 0:18:32Did you get that sense from her?

0:18:32 > 0:18:35I can understand men liking Margaret Thatcher,

0:18:35 > 0:18:37because she is a very powerful woman.

0:18:37 > 0:18:42And I think that she dressed fantastically.

0:18:42 > 0:18:45I think she really had got a sense of...

0:18:45 > 0:18:48making herself look very important

0:18:48 > 0:18:51and yet good looking at the same time.

0:18:51 > 0:18:55She did really choose her clothes so well. She looked great.

0:18:58 > 0:19:01WARK: 'Although Westwood remains one of design's great radicals,

0:19:01 > 0:19:04'she's very much fashion royalty.

0:19:04 > 0:19:06'In the early '90s, the British Fashion Council

0:19:06 > 0:19:10'named her its Designer of the Year for two years in succession.'

0:19:10 > 0:19:12The Designer of the Year is...

0:19:12 > 0:19:15WARK: 'But she'll always be too eccentric for some.'

0:19:15 > 0:19:17Oh, dear. Vivienne Westwood.

0:19:17 > 0:19:20CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

0:19:22 > 0:19:27The best thing about winning this award is a personal thing,

0:19:27 > 0:19:30the fact that one is appreciated.

0:19:31 > 0:19:35And, um, as long as you continue to appreciate me,

0:19:35 > 0:19:40I shall continue to design and to show in England.

0:19:43 > 0:19:47WARK: 'But in an age when it can cost tens of thousands of pounds

0:19:47 > 0:19:50'to lure a supermodel from her bed to the catwalk,

0:19:50 > 0:19:53'Westwood has seldom been able to show in London.

0:19:54 > 0:19:58'Since 1990, she's been forced to take her collections to the city

0:19:58 > 0:20:01'that remains the centre of fashion gravity, Paris.

0:20:10 > 0:20:16'In Paris, she quickly established herself as part of the fashion elite,

0:20:16 > 0:20:19'earning respect at the highest table of haute couture.

0:20:19 > 0:20:22'She attributes her success, in part,

0:20:22 > 0:20:25'to the contribution of her latest collaborator.'

0:20:28 > 0:20:31WESTWOOD: I think I have to mention my husband, Andreas,

0:20:31 > 0:20:35because it's absolutely great to work with a man.

0:20:35 > 0:20:40He designs... He probably designs as much as I do at this point in time.

0:20:40 > 0:20:46And he certainly organises more than I do. He's really, really...

0:20:46 > 0:20:49It's like having two of myself, except he's different.

0:20:49 > 0:20:52I once said, "I don't know whether these models backstage" -

0:20:52 > 0:20:56Naomi - looking at her, like she came from another planet...

0:20:56 > 0:20:59And I said, "I don't know whether they look goddesses or monsters

0:20:59 > 0:21:01"cos they look so extreme."

0:21:01 > 0:21:05It's Andreas' influence here to make these women larger than life,

0:21:05 > 0:21:10and this is how we got into this incredible idea of distort...

0:21:10 > 0:21:13not distorting, but enhancing the figure,

0:21:13 > 0:21:15and changing the proportion.

0:21:15 > 0:21:18And I think it was because he really wanted always

0:21:18 > 0:21:20to put women on a pedestal that we did it that way.

0:21:20 > 0:21:25But before I met him, I was ten years on my own, it's true,

0:21:25 > 0:21:29and I put women on a pedestal before that

0:21:29 > 0:21:31when I invented my platform shoes,

0:21:31 > 0:21:33because I wanted them to look important,

0:21:33 > 0:21:37and I wanted them to look as grand and wonderful

0:21:37 > 0:21:41and rich as those ladies that you see in portraits.

0:21:41 > 0:21:42And I wanted them to look like

0:21:42 > 0:21:44they'd stepped out of one of those portraits,

0:21:44 > 0:21:46Gainsborough or something.

0:21:49 > 0:21:51WARK: 'One special pair of platforms

0:21:51 > 0:21:56'is now among the most popular of the V&A's permanent exhibits.

0:21:56 > 0:22:01'It's the pair won by supermodel Naomi Campbell in 1993

0:22:01 > 0:22:05'when she tumbled on the catwalk in front of the world's press.

0:22:07 > 0:22:10Tell me what you felt like when Naomi Campbell fell off

0:22:10 > 0:22:12one of your shoes.

0:22:12 > 0:22:14Well, Naomi...

0:22:14 > 0:22:20Now then, she is a very, um, proud woman.

0:22:20 > 0:22:22And...

0:22:22 > 0:22:24I was worried when she fell off,

0:22:24 > 0:22:27because the last thing she is going to do is look upset.

0:22:27 > 0:22:31Even if she's broken her leg, she's going to laugh or whatever.

0:22:31 > 0:22:37So she carried it off wonderfully. She looked gorgeous when she fell.

0:22:37 > 0:22:41She looked like a gazelle that you see in slow motion on the...

0:22:41 > 0:22:43you know, when a lion has got it.

0:22:43 > 0:22:46She just... It was fantastic how she fell.

0:22:46 > 0:22:48I think it's one of the best things she ever did.

0:22:48 > 0:22:53But, anyway, I ran to where her rail of clothes were,

0:22:53 > 0:22:56cos she had to change for the next outfit when she came off.

0:22:56 > 0:22:59She was lying on her back on the floor.

0:22:59 > 0:23:02I said, "You must go back on the catwalk."

0:23:02 > 0:23:03I don't think she fancied it.

0:23:03 > 0:23:06And she said to me, "Vivienne, if I fall on that catwalk again,

0:23:06 > 0:23:09"you are going to come and pick me up."

0:23:09 > 0:23:14How much was it your desire to make women be the best they could be?

0:23:14 > 0:23:16Obviously, women don't look like Naomi Campbell.

0:23:16 > 0:23:18Mm. Mm-hm.

0:23:18 > 0:23:20Ordinary women should be able to wear your clothes.

0:23:20 > 0:23:24Mm. Well, if people ask, you know, "Who is Vivienne Westwood?"

0:23:24 > 0:23:28the first adjective that comes to mind is "sexy".

0:23:28 > 0:23:31They all think my clothes are sexy.

0:23:31 > 0:23:34And it's true that as a woman designer,

0:23:34 > 0:23:38I do have a feeling for what women find sexy.

0:23:38 > 0:23:42My clothes bring out the personality of people.

0:23:42 > 0:23:46It makes them look very, very special and individual.

0:23:46 > 0:23:49The feeling that runs through my clothes from

0:23:49 > 0:23:51when I first started to now

0:23:51 > 0:23:53is that they are very heroic.

0:23:53 > 0:23:56I think they do make you larger than life.

0:23:56 > 0:23:59I do think that they make you look very important.

0:23:59 > 0:24:03And, for me, that's sexy. She's got clout.

0:24:08 > 0:24:10WESTWOOD: My recent collections,

0:24:10 > 0:24:15they are an example of things that have happened to me before,

0:24:15 > 0:24:19and it's a sort of almost a cardinal turning part in my life.

0:24:19 > 0:24:22And what happened is I got bored with myself.

0:24:22 > 0:24:28I did not want to always be flattering the feminine form,

0:24:28 > 0:24:31making the waist look smaller by illusion,

0:24:31 > 0:24:33making the bust look more curvy,

0:24:33 > 0:24:36making somebody look more dynamic

0:24:36 > 0:24:38that she is sort of tottering on something.

0:24:38 > 0:24:41I just got fed up with it and I just changed the proportion.

0:24:41 > 0:24:43I thought, "I'm not going to do that."

0:24:43 > 0:24:46I got a bit of inspiration from Africa,

0:24:46 > 0:24:49because that's to do with putting fabric on yourself in different ways

0:24:49 > 0:24:52so that the waist is not necessarily where the waist is.

0:24:52 > 0:24:54It might be round the hips.

0:24:54 > 0:24:57And they've got all kinds of strange proportions to them.

0:24:59 > 0:25:02It's very, very much to do about fabric.

0:25:02 > 0:25:04They almost look like sort of paper bags

0:25:04 > 0:25:07or something that you've been just sort of wrapped up in.

0:25:18 > 0:25:21I was walking through the exhibition with my mother,

0:25:21 > 0:25:23letting her have a look at it.

0:25:23 > 0:25:25She said to me, "Well, Vivienne,

0:25:25 > 0:25:28"I don't know where you dreamed up all this," she said.

0:25:28 > 0:25:31She'd no idea that I'd done so much,

0:25:31 > 0:25:36and yet it's just a tiny summit of the iceberg.

0:25:36 > 0:25:39There's just so much that I've done.

0:25:39 > 0:25:42But nevertheless, it is an epitome of my work.

0:25:42 > 0:25:45And it's 360 degrees somehow.

0:25:45 > 0:25:47There seems to be everything in there.

0:26:13 > 0:26:16Do you feel that this exhibition at the V&A

0:26:16 > 0:26:19is an affirmation of you as a craftswoman?

0:26:19 > 0:26:25Hm. It is the thing that I am proud of, that I have,

0:26:25 > 0:26:29over all these years, managed to develop and sustain a technique,

0:26:29 > 0:26:34and that without that, I don't believe self-expression is possible.

0:26:34 > 0:26:36I would have dried up years ago

0:26:36 > 0:26:39if I'd simply been sitting with a drawing and a pencil.

0:26:39 > 0:26:45The last collection I did, three weeks before the Paris show,

0:26:45 > 0:26:50I didn't have a piece. I didn't like anything. Nothing was coming through.

0:26:50 > 0:26:52I was completely stuck.

0:26:52 > 0:26:53And I think sometimes...

0:26:53 > 0:26:56Cos sometimes it's easy.

0:26:56 > 0:26:59But I think sometimes the public wouldn't have any idea

0:26:59 > 0:27:03of how close you come to, you know, just not managing it.

0:27:03 > 0:27:06Even on the day of the show, I couldn't like it.

0:27:06 > 0:27:09I still couldn't like it. I'd suffered so much.

0:27:09 > 0:27:12And I'll tell you what happened.

0:27:12 > 0:27:17Two days later, I just looked at the paper of something that I had kept,

0:27:17 > 0:27:20a photograph of the wedding dress from the paper.

0:27:20 > 0:27:23And I just looked at it and I just thought,

0:27:23 > 0:27:26"That is just the best thing on the Earth." You know.

0:27:26 > 0:27:30I mean, and, yeah, I did that. So don't worry next time,

0:27:30 > 0:27:35just do it, you know. So I think I'll be all right next time.

0:27:35 > 0:27:37You once said that you can have a better life

0:27:37 > 0:27:40if you wear impressive clothes. Do you still believe that?

0:27:40 > 0:27:41Yes, certainly.

0:27:41 > 0:27:46Another way of saying that is, my maxim - "If in doubt, dress up."

0:27:46 > 0:27:49Don't ever dress down. You'll be so disappointed.

0:27:49 > 0:27:55I don't have to shine in any sort of event or social gathering.

0:27:55 > 0:27:57I'm thrilled to bits

0:27:57 > 0:28:01if I see somebody looking wonderful, wonderful. I can adore it, you know.

0:28:01 > 0:28:04I don't... I don't have to be the one.

0:28:04 > 0:28:06But I always want to look my best,

0:28:06 > 0:28:09and I do believe that that's what women want.

0:28:09 > 0:28:10That's what fashion's about.

0:28:10 > 0:28:13I mean, we're not there to show up bad points, are we?

0:28:13 > 0:28:16We're there to hide them and show up our good points.

0:28:16 > 0:28:17Vivienne Westwood, thank you very much.

0:28:17 > 0:28:19Thank you.