0:00:08 > 0:00:11They were once the enfant terrible of the art world,
0:00:11 > 0:00:13whose work had the power to cause shock and outrage
0:00:13 > 0:00:15as well as to delight.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18Now, Jeff Koons and Damien Hirst are giants of Modern Art,
0:00:18 > 0:00:20their work sells for millions.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23And they've come together at Damien Hirst's new gallery
0:00:23 > 0:00:25in Newport Street in London's Vauxhall
0:00:25 > 0:00:28for a free exhibition of Jeff Koons' art.
0:00:28 > 0:00:29# Let's go! #
0:00:32 > 0:00:36It's a rare opportunity to see Koons' work spanning more than
0:00:36 > 0:00:39four decades, from the ready-made to the surreal,
0:00:39 > 0:00:42from the childlike to the pornographic.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45It's a feast for the eyes and all the senses.
0:00:57 > 0:01:02It's the first show of Jeff Koons' work in this country since 2009
0:01:02 > 0:01:05and it comes from Damien Hirst's own collection.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12The two artists collaborated closely on the show.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Damien Hirst had 36 of Jeff Koons' works,
0:01:15 > 0:01:18Jeff Koons had a cardboard model of the gallery in New York.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21This was the model they used here in the Newport Gallery
0:01:21 > 0:01:23and together they installed the show.
0:01:25 > 0:01:29So Jeff Koons has an idea of what to expect,
0:01:29 > 0:01:33but this is the moment when he sees it for the first time.
0:01:38 > 0:01:39Wow.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45In the first gallery are some of his early ready-made works,
0:01:45 > 0:01:48or everyday objects presented as art.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53Damien, this looks amazing. It looks really amazing.
0:01:53 > 0:01:54Wow.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57Wow, let me give you a hug.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01- There we go.- Thank YOU.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05So, tell us about this, because this goes right back.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09These are inflatable flowers from 1978.
0:02:09 > 0:02:11I remember they would come in a package
0:02:11 > 0:02:14and it would say, "For modern home decor."
0:02:14 > 0:02:16And I would just go to the hardware store
0:02:16 > 0:02:21and buy pre-cut glass mirrors, they were 12-inch square,
0:02:21 > 0:02:25and I would set them down and what I enjoyed so much was, you know,
0:02:25 > 0:02:29when you move, the abstraction changes.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32And so I just love the simplicity of that
0:02:32 > 0:02:36and, you know, the sexual quality of that reflection.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40I mean, it's enhanced, it's charged-up.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44In his ready-made pieces,
0:02:44 > 0:02:47Koons took inspiration from the artist Marcel Duchamp,
0:02:47 > 0:02:51who shocked the world a century ago by making a urinal a work of art.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59The star of Koons' series called The New
0:02:59 > 0:03:02was the common-or-garden vacuum cleaner.
0:03:03 > 0:03:10Did this come directly from your interest in Duchamp and the ready-made?
0:03:10 > 0:03:12Oh, absolutely.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15I mean, to try to show the ready-made in a manner that
0:03:15 > 0:03:18hopefully was adding something.
0:03:18 > 0:03:20How important is it they're completely pristine?
0:03:20 > 0:03:24Well, the most important thing is that they're never used.
0:03:24 > 0:03:27You know, their case is clean, and what was important to me
0:03:27 > 0:03:32was that they're new Hoovers, and so the ad, like, "Rooomy!"
0:03:32 > 0:03:35You know, "Toyota, new family Camry."
0:03:35 > 0:03:37It's about newness.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40I also think that it's interesting using the vacuum cleaners,
0:03:40 > 0:03:45because in the States, in America, at least, like, in the '50s,
0:03:45 > 0:03:49the door-to-door salesman, he would sell Hoovers.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51- And they were all Hoovers! - They were Hoovers.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I used to go door-to-door selling gift-wrapping paper,
0:03:54 > 0:03:59chocolates, but this interaction with people, I mean, you know,
0:03:59 > 0:04:05developing a context with the community or larger social group.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09So then you come on and then THIS piece.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13- Which was your first Hoover that you bought?- That was the first piece, I think.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15So this is not a hoover, this is a shampooer?
0:04:15 > 0:04:17Yeah, well, it's still a hoover, because it's made by Hoover.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19- Hoover shampooer.- Hoover Shampooer.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22But even looking at this, that kind of has, like,
0:04:22 > 0:04:25an Egyptian, an Etruscan type of quality.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28It's laid out almost like in a funerary-type manner.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31Yeah, the reason why I liked them when I first bought one
0:04:31 > 0:04:33was because they look like immortality.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36This caused an argument with artists when you talked about your work
0:04:36 > 0:04:41and you invest in this work, the idea, you know, Etruscan, Egyptian
0:04:41 > 0:04:45and so forth, but the viewer doesn't have the benefit of your thought.
0:04:45 > 0:04:51- Does that matter? - Um... But they do. Yeah, they do.
0:04:51 > 0:04:55It's there in their subconscious manners, it's all metaphor.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57They may not have the exact words...
0:04:57 > 0:05:01Yeah, if somebody looks at it and says, "I don't know why I like it, but I do,"
0:05:01 > 0:05:04it's probably because of all the work that Jeff's put into
0:05:04 > 0:05:08making it and presenting it in that way, with everything else taken away.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14One of the pieces in the exhibition which
0:05:14 > 0:05:20I find the most affecting is the idea that you've taken a life vest
0:05:20 > 0:05:24and you've cast it so beautifully in bronze,
0:05:24 > 0:05:27but anyone that puts on this and goes into the sea...
0:05:28 > 0:05:30..doesn't survive.
0:05:30 > 0:05:34Yeah. I mean, if you would leave that on, it would take you under.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36Or even, like, the snorkel.
0:05:36 > 0:05:41The snorkel's the first idea that I had for casting an object.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44But now seeing it, because I've never seen this before,
0:05:44 > 0:05:47what is extraordinary, the perfection of it is amazing,
0:05:47 > 0:05:52down to the stitching that would have existed on the original canvas.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55When I look at this, I think of, like, a Venus of Willendorf,
0:05:55 > 0:05:57it's all kind of feminine form here.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01You know it's a voluptuous... It's a... It's feminine form.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07So these have now become one of your biggest, most iconic works.
0:06:07 > 0:06:12In 2013, Koons broke the record for the most expensive work
0:06:12 > 0:06:15by a living artist sold at auction.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18A sculpture from the same series as this one, the Balloon Monkey,
0:06:18 > 0:06:21fetched 58 million.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23'It looks like it's filled with air, but actually,
0:06:23 > 0:06:25'it's made of stainless steel.'
0:06:25 > 0:06:27It's such a great colour.
0:06:27 > 0:06:32I think it's my favourite colour of all the inflatable animals.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35It feels like you couldn't really do the show without it.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38And it's as if you built this room for it. It's like that.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40I love the way the tail goes off to the right
0:06:40 > 0:06:43and the wall is kind of sloped off to the right as well.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46And this again is utterly perfect.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49- Not a blemish on it.- Yeah, I've got no idea how you achieve that,
0:06:49 > 0:06:52because if I get people to polish things, there's always a kind of
0:06:52 > 0:06:56little ripple in the reflection, because the reflection's so pure.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59We would white-light scan these, but we would also take CAT scans
0:06:59 > 0:07:02of the model, so that we were able to know exactly
0:07:02 > 0:07:04what the folds were like.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08And so, you know, that's the basis of these objects.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11You know that the knot is exactly like that.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13That's the idea of a knot.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15That's what the knot was like.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18You know, these folds, these aren't just kind of the idea
0:07:18 > 0:07:20of what happens when you make a balloon monkey...
0:07:20 > 0:07:22- The actual... - These are the folds.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26- I feel like the flies in A Bug's Life. You know, that movie?- Yes.
0:07:26 > 0:07:27They say, "Don't look at the light."
0:07:27 > 0:07:30"I can't help it. It's so beautiful!"
0:07:30 > 0:07:32LAUGHTER
0:07:32 > 0:07:34One room is not for the faint-hearted.
0:07:34 > 0:07:36When did you get these pieces, Damien?
0:07:36 > 0:07:38About six or seven years ago.
0:07:38 > 0:07:42While a huge bowl of eggs symbolises creation and birth,
0:07:42 > 0:07:44the other works here are shockingly explicit.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50They're from a series from the early '90s called Made in Heaven,
0:07:50 > 0:07:54starring Ilona Staller, better known by her porn star name, Cicciolina.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00# Ah, love to love you, baby... #
0:08:00 > 0:08:02When I first saw it, I was like, "He's lost it."
0:08:02 > 0:08:06I just thought, "That's not art. He's completely, completely lost it."
0:08:06 > 0:08:07It was like... I didn't like them.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10I just thought, "Why would you want to go that far?" kind of thing.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13And then afterwards, it was a couple of years later,
0:08:13 > 0:08:15I was like, "Oh, my God! No, I love them."
0:08:15 > 0:08:17They were my favourite pieces of Jeff's.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24I kind of imagined that when you did them, maybe you were...
0:08:24 > 0:08:27Maybe you had to psych yourself up to get to that point,
0:08:27 > 0:08:29which I always admired.
0:08:29 > 0:08:32But if it was an expression of love and the love was already there,
0:08:32 > 0:08:35- then was it easier to do? - Er, the love happened.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38I mean, so originally it was an idea, because the Whitney Museum
0:08:38 > 0:08:41asked me if I wanted to make a work about media.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46So I thought, "I'll add a star on my shoulder,"
0:08:46 > 0:08:49and the easiest way to get in film would be porn.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53And so I thought, "I'll hire that Italian woman that
0:08:53 > 0:08:57"I used references of in my Banality show."
0:08:57 > 0:09:00I ended up using one of her dresses in a piece called Fait d'Hiver.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04"And I'll make it like we're making a movie and I'll call it
0:09:04 > 0:09:07"Made In Heaven starring Jeff Koons and Cicciolina."
0:09:07 > 0:09:11So that's how it came about and we started flirting,
0:09:11 > 0:09:16and ended up becoming something more than just the idea of this film.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19But do you think they became more explicit than even you had
0:09:19 > 0:09:23imagined because there was a relationship?
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Er...yes. I mean, I thought I was just going to make this billboard.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29- No billboard there!- But as...
0:09:29 > 0:09:32But when we started flirting,
0:09:32 > 0:09:36then I decided that actually I could take this further.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39# Ah, love to love you, baby... #
0:09:39 > 0:09:41Do you think now...
0:09:41 > 0:09:44because things have moved on and it was a difficult period
0:09:44 > 0:09:48in your life, but do you reflect on these differently now?
0:09:48 > 0:09:52No. You know, I accepted my ex-wife's past.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54I accepted her background.
0:09:54 > 0:09:59I fell in love with her for who she was, exactly the person,
0:09:59 > 0:10:04but it ended up it did not work out, so it was really about acceptance.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11This is only the second exhibition at Hirst's wonderful new gallery.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13He's one of Britain's most successful artists,
0:10:13 > 0:10:18but he's also been a passionate curator since his student days.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21- You know, Damien, what a range of works you have.- I know!
0:10:21 > 0:10:26To come from downstairs and The New and the Monkey
0:10:26 > 0:10:30and the Made In Heaven, to be here with the Kiepenkerl.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34This was a really transformative piece
0:10:34 > 0:10:37and when I made the Kiepenkerl it was 1987.
0:10:37 > 0:10:42I was asked to be in an exhibition in Munster and I saw in the town
0:10:42 > 0:10:46square they had this sculpture of the Kiepenkerl in bronze.
0:10:46 > 0:10:51And I thought, "I'll recast that. I'll put it in stainless steel."
0:10:51 > 0:10:56And as he reflected that he met the needs of an agrarian culture...
0:10:56 > 0:10:59I mean, this is a man coming to market with a kip filled with
0:10:59 > 0:11:01eggs, potatoes, pigeons.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03He has tobacco, pear...
0:11:04 > 0:11:06This idea of self-reliance.
0:11:06 > 0:11:11Today, we have our kind of economic needs as a type of security
0:11:11 > 0:11:15met different ways and that by having it in this reflective
0:11:15 > 0:11:18stainless steel mirrored surface, it reflected more
0:11:18 > 0:11:22the transcendent state of feeling like our needs were met.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25So, it's great to see that you have Kiepenkerl.
0:11:25 > 0:11:27And then you've got the Jim Beam series.
0:11:27 > 0:11:29It's a kind of luxury item though, isn't it?
0:11:29 > 0:11:33- And yet stainless steel is not. - It's referencing luxury items.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37This is the first time I ever worked in stainless steel.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41So I was walking down Fifth Avenue in New York and I looked
0:11:41 > 0:11:47in a liquor store window and they had the Jim Beam JB Turner train.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51They had, you know, this engine and the train cars lined up
0:11:51 > 0:11:55and I thought, "Wow! What a great object to work with."
0:11:55 > 0:11:56And it transformed.
0:11:56 > 0:12:01I put it in stainless steel, bring it to a high-mirror polish
0:12:01 > 0:12:02so it will be intoxicating,
0:12:02 > 0:12:09but what's important is how to transform it and maintain its soul.
0:12:09 > 0:12:13And its soul is that it's a fifth of Jim Beam bourbon, or
0:12:13 > 0:12:18if you slide back the door, right there is the neck of the bottle.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20You know, with this piece here, the Italian lady,
0:12:20 > 0:12:21I remember seeing this.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24This was the one in the Saatchi Gallery, the actual one,
0:12:24 > 0:12:27and I remember seeing the book on it when I first saw the show,
0:12:27 > 0:12:32under there, and I remember being totally confused by that.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35- This is a book that says, "Manzoni here."- Yeah.
0:12:35 > 0:12:41This is Lucia and Lucia is one of the main figures in
0:12:41 > 0:12:44Manzoni's writing and this is called Italian Woman,
0:12:44 > 0:12:46but it's very bourgeois-looking.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53Some of Koon's most celebrated pieces -
0:12:53 > 0:12:56basketballs floating in perfect equilibrium in a glass tank -
0:12:56 > 0:12:59are echoed by Hirst's most famous works,
0:12:59 > 0:13:02his dead creatures in formaldehyde.
0:13:08 > 0:13:10Had you made any vitrine pieces before you saw this?
0:13:10 > 0:13:12What date was this? I don't think so.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14This would be '85.
0:13:14 > 0:13:16What I'd been... Before I came to London,
0:13:16 > 0:13:19I'd been in the Anatomy Museum in Leeds where they had all
0:13:19 > 0:13:24the objects in formaldehyde in like a museum section.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27What I'd been doing is drawing from those, like medical students
0:13:27 > 0:13:31trying to sort of understand anatomy for life drawing.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34But then, when I started to see Jeff's work, it reminded me
0:13:34 > 0:13:36of those things and I thought, "Oh, my God!
0:13:36 > 0:13:38"I shouldn't be doing that. I should be taking it directly,"
0:13:38 > 0:13:40because that's what Jeff was doing.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42It's kind of interesting that one artist contributes
0:13:42 > 0:13:46so directly to another artist's work.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48That's what all art does.
0:13:48 > 0:13:52At Goldsmith's they taught us, "Don't borrow ideas, steal them."
0:13:52 > 0:13:53LAUGHTER
0:13:57 > 0:14:00Gallery Five has some of Koons' more recent works.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03It's playful yet disturbing at the same time.
0:14:06 > 0:14:08The lobster has more than a passing resemblance to
0:14:08 > 0:14:10a master of Surrealism.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17When I was younger, 18 or 19, my mother informed me
0:14:17 > 0:14:20that Dali had lived half the year in New York.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23So I found out he stayed at the St Regis hotel.
0:14:23 > 0:14:28So I called up the hotel and I told him that I was a fan
0:14:28 > 0:14:30and I would love to meet him.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33And he said, "Come to New York next weekend.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36"I'll meet you in the lobby of the hotel at 12 o'clock."
0:14:36 > 0:14:38And I went there and there he was.
0:14:38 > 0:14:43He had his buffalo fur coat on and his diamond tie tag,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46the silver cane and he posed for some photographs.
0:14:46 > 0:14:48He put his moustache up.
0:14:48 > 0:14:53I remember I was young and I was kind of jiggling my camera around.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57I was nervous and he said, "Come on, kid. I can't hold this all day."
0:14:57 > 0:14:59So, it's nice to kind of remember that.
0:14:59 > 0:15:04So, it has aspects of Dali, but it's also LHOOQ
0:15:04 > 0:15:08with Marcel Duchamp drawing on the Mona Lisa.
0:15:08 > 0:15:11And, again, look like they're blown up with air, but they're not.
0:15:11 > 0:15:15- No, they're aluminium. - Is also more acrobatic, it seems.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18That's right, but there's something interesting that's very, very,
0:15:18 > 0:15:20masculine, but at the same time,
0:15:20 > 0:15:23there's something very feminine and the tail...
0:15:23 > 0:15:28It almost looks like a type of feather fan that maybe
0:15:28 > 0:15:30a stripper would use.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33And if you look, these could also be fallopian tubes,
0:15:33 > 0:15:38this could be womblike. This could be kind of vaginal lips.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41It kind of goes back and forth from masculine and feminine.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46The collection here is one of the biggest of Jeff Koons' work
0:15:46 > 0:15:50in the world and represents most of his career.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52- I liked this view. - This is great.- Yes.
0:15:54 > 0:15:55For Damien Hirst,
0:15:55 > 0:15:59the show is the climax of a passion that goes back 30 years.
0:16:03 > 0:16:04Damien, what age where you...?
0:16:04 > 0:16:09Can you remember exactly when and where you saw Jeff's work at first?
0:16:09 > 0:16:13Erm, I think in magazines to start with, when I was a student.
0:16:13 > 0:16:18So early '80s, '85, and then when I saw it for real, it was in the
0:16:18 > 0:16:21Saatchi Gallery in the New York Art Now show,
0:16:21 > 0:16:23which was, I think, '86, '87.
0:16:23 > 0:16:26And then, you know, my tutors didn't like it and I absolutely loved it.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28Your tutors didn't like it?
0:16:28 > 0:16:31Well, they were sort of behind everything and then with the New
0:16:31 > 0:16:35York Art Now show, they just went, "That's not art," and I was, like...
0:16:35 > 0:16:37I loved it even more because it was, like, totally punk.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39It was against what my tutors believed and everything,
0:16:39 > 0:16:41so it was, like... And so simple and easy.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44And here you are and did you ever think that, actually, you would
0:16:44 > 0:16:48end up as being one of Jeff Koon's major collectors in the world?
0:16:48 > 0:16:49Never. You know, it's like...
0:16:49 > 0:16:53I remember looking at the works at the time and not...
0:16:53 > 0:16:55I mean, you could never possess anything like that,
0:16:55 > 0:16:59but also to be in a position where you can...
0:16:59 > 0:17:02I mean, I've got Jeff's work in my house at home and it's like, you know...
0:17:02 > 0:17:05To think I've got a piece by the TV and I often find myself
0:17:05 > 0:17:08not looking at the TV and then looking at the piece.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11It kind of does more than the TV most of the time.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14So, when were you first aware of Damien's work?
0:17:15 > 0:17:19We were in exhibition together in Germany.
0:17:20 > 0:17:24- This would have been around 1991, '92.- It was fairly early, wasn't it?
0:17:24 > 0:17:26- When you did the puppy. - Yeah, yeah.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30- A giant puppy made out of flowers. - So we spent time together.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34Our families hung out. So Damien met my father.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36I think your mother was there as well, wasn't she?
0:17:36 > 0:17:38Yeah, my mum was there and I know Damien's mother.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42So it was wonderful that we spent time together in this small
0:17:42 > 0:17:47German little city and that's where we befriended each other.
0:17:47 > 0:17:51And when you started collecting Jeff's work, it occurs to me
0:17:51 > 0:17:53that you were developing as an artist as Jeff was still
0:17:53 > 0:17:54developing as an artist.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57Was that one of the reasons that it was someone you wanted to collect?
0:17:57 > 0:17:59I just... I'd been selling work
0:17:59 > 0:18:01and I had quite a lot of money coming in suddenly,
0:18:01 > 0:18:04and I thought I could justify making this kind of money
0:18:04 > 0:18:06if I was buying these things that I'd always loved.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08I remember the first piece I bought from Jeff was that single
0:18:08 > 0:18:11Hoover downstairs and I said to Larry Gagosian,
0:18:11 > 0:18:13who has a gallery in New York, "How much is that?"
0:18:13 > 0:18:15And he said, "It's 60,000," or something.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18I remember I said to him, "Will it go up in value?"
0:18:18 > 0:18:21And he went, "If you buy it for that reason, don't buy it!"
0:18:21 > 0:18:25And I thought, "Wow! What do you mean?" Then I did buy it in the end.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27So, Damien, tell me, you have this space,
0:18:27 > 0:18:30you decide that you would show Jeff's work.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33So, why was it important to put this exhibition together?
0:18:33 > 0:18:36I always had an idea that I'd like to do a show of Jeff's work,
0:18:36 > 0:18:38because I think...
0:18:38 > 0:18:41In my work, I have lots of different things that I do
0:18:41 > 0:18:44and Jeff is similar like that, so he's a difficult artist to collect.
0:18:44 > 0:18:48You think you want one of everything and it becomes quite a commitment.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50But I always thought I'd love to have enough
0:18:50 > 0:18:52to do a really great show. I think I've managed.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55There are a few pieces that I haven't got, which I never...
0:18:55 > 0:18:58What I always wanted was one of the wooden pieces and
0:18:58 > 0:18:59one of the ceramic pieces from one of...
0:18:59 > 0:19:02A ceramic from Banality?
0:19:02 > 0:19:03Yeah, I never managed to get one of those,
0:19:03 > 0:19:07but I don't think it feels like anything is missing.
0:19:07 > 0:19:08I didn't feel that anything was missing.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12It feels absolutely complete from entering with the first
0:19:12 > 0:19:17inflatable flowers to, you know, ending here with an elephant.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19You see your life flashing before you.
0:19:19 > 0:19:23I see a creative life and, you know, working with objects,
0:19:23 > 0:19:27working with metaphor and what I really find important in this
0:19:27 > 0:19:30exhibition is the friendship with Damien.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32I mean, that is what is really meaningful to me,
0:19:32 > 0:19:37that Damien would collect my work and just this interaction.
0:19:37 > 0:19:41That's really what I walk away with.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45But, in life, when we're making objects, you know, it's metaphor
0:19:45 > 0:19:48for how we can make our lives better, how we can accept ourselves
0:19:48 > 0:19:54more clearly and how we can go out in the world
0:19:54 > 0:19:59and we can accept other people and we can really enrich our lives.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02I mean, I think with Jeff's work, when he chose that great title
0:20:02 > 0:20:05for his series of works, Celebration, which is a great title,
0:20:05 > 0:20:09I was a bit jealous when you got that title because it's like...
0:20:09 > 0:20:11I'm a bit more prone to darkness here and there,
0:20:11 > 0:20:15but I think art in itself, even if you're making something negative,
0:20:15 > 0:20:16it's a positive force.
0:20:16 > 0:20:18It is very difficult for anyone to come in here
0:20:18 > 0:20:20and not absolutely love it.
0:20:22 > 0:20:23You know, it's like...
0:20:23 > 0:20:27Whenever you see kids in a Koons exhibition, they just... Wow!
0:20:27 > 0:20:29They're just running around loving it.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34Right now, though, we're sitting in front of Play-Doh,
0:20:34 > 0:20:38one of your biggest and, indeed, heaviest works that Damien has.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40I want to spend a little time talking about that.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44- Why did you buy this piece of work? - When I saw it, it was like...
0:20:44 > 0:20:46It seems to be the basis of all art.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48I've got kids myself and we've played with Play-Doh.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50It just sort of seemed to say everything.
0:20:50 > 0:20:55You know, I have a young son and he made a mound of Play-Doh
0:20:55 > 0:20:58and I was looking in a different direction and he said, "Dad,"
0:20:58 > 0:21:01and I turned and I looked at him,
0:21:01 > 0:21:04and he had the mound right here and he went, "Voila!"
0:21:04 > 0:21:05LAUGHTER
0:21:05 > 0:21:08That was the beginning of it, that "Voila!"
0:21:08 > 0:21:11It reminds me of that piece in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13when he makes that thing in his living room
0:21:13 > 0:21:17and it's, like, just a shape and he's obsessed with it. You know...
0:21:17 > 0:21:20To make a small one, it doesn't really do anything, but then to
0:21:20 > 0:21:23make it that size, it's like right in your face and you can't deny it.
0:21:23 > 0:21:27It seems to me that you're a very optimistic person
0:21:27 > 0:21:28in an often pessimistic world.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30I think the works have a dark side, too.
0:21:30 > 0:21:34I mean, if I look at the elephant over there, it's bright,
0:21:34 > 0:21:38it's cheerful, but it also has some darkness to it.
0:21:38 > 0:21:42To have a dialogue about optimism, you have to have the other side.
0:21:42 > 0:21:44I've had arguments with people about Jeff's work
0:21:44 > 0:21:47and I often get onto the fact that it's about death,
0:21:47 > 0:21:51but I don't know if that's my reading of it or whatever.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54I think another really important thing is it's about America.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56The most amazing portrait of America. The whole of Jeff's work.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59That's interesting because, of course, you were very much
0:21:59 > 0:22:01schooled in the European tradition
0:22:01 > 0:22:04and also in antiquity, but yet your work is determinedly American.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07The things that I responded to in my life, you know,
0:22:07 > 0:22:10I've been able to hold dear.
0:22:10 > 0:22:14I enjoyed driving down the road - I'm from rural Pennsylvania,
0:22:14 > 0:22:16I still have a home there.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18I'll drive down the road and I'll see a gazing ball in a yard.
0:22:18 > 0:22:22That's still one of the most exciting experiences.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25My whole family will drive by and all my kids are yelling,
0:22:25 > 0:22:30"Gazing ball! Gazing ball!" And we'll point these things out.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34But, you know, there are wonderful things around us all the time.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36Of course, we don't have gazing balls here
0:22:36 > 0:22:41and it strikes me that we don't have that reflective nature.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43I think we were all raised not to look at ourselves in many ways
0:22:43 > 0:22:46and maybe that's a different aspect of American culture.
0:22:46 > 0:22:50It is actually OK to celebrate yourself more than it was here.
0:22:50 > 0:22:54I mean, for me, the gazing ball, it's a GPS system
0:22:54 > 0:22:57and, you know, the mind is always rewarding you.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02It always wants to know where you are within the universe.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05And it's a heightening of the senses.
0:23:07 > 0:23:09You look and you have the light reflecting.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11I can feel my fingertips tingle.
0:23:11 > 0:23:15To me, it's affirmation, it's excitement of the senses.
0:23:15 > 0:23:16It's biology.
0:23:16 > 0:23:20And, at the same time, it can take you into very ephemeral,
0:23:20 > 0:23:24ethereal thought and into ideas.
0:23:24 > 0:23:26So that's another form of the eternal.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30You spoke earlier, though, about the fact that your work perhaps
0:23:30 > 0:23:32seems more optimistic than Damien's.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35You said your work seems darker and I wonder,
0:23:35 > 0:23:38the diamond skull to me seems the ultimate dark object.
0:23:38 > 0:23:39I don't know.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41It's semantics, isn't it?
0:23:41 > 0:23:44Art is always optimistic even if it is art about death or life.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47I had Elephant on my desk and when it arrived,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50I remember looking at it and thinking, "Oh, my God!"
0:23:50 > 0:23:52It's got that same quality that the diamond skull has
0:23:52 > 0:23:55and it looks totally hopeful and optimistic, shiny and bright.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57Yet it also looks like you could pop it with a pin.
0:23:57 > 0:23:59And I remember thinking, "My God!
0:23:59 > 0:24:02"I wish I could make a diamond skull that you could pop with a pin."
0:24:02 > 0:24:03That's it...
0:24:03 > 0:24:06And also it's made of a material that, you know,
0:24:06 > 0:24:08is lasting 6,000 years and counting.
0:24:08 > 0:24:13The casting is like a 6,000-year-old process. So it covers everything.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15But what do you see in each other?
0:24:16 > 0:24:20I suppose all the artists that I love have something that I don't.
0:24:20 > 0:24:23What I love about your work, or Jeff as well,
0:24:23 > 0:24:25is that he's, like, contemporary.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28He is alive today and it's like you kind of admire people from afar,
0:24:28 > 0:24:29but it's like...
0:24:29 > 0:24:32It's totally inspirational to see that somebody living today
0:24:32 > 0:24:36can make art that's on a par with all those dead guys who,
0:24:36 > 0:24:39when you were young, you look at and you think...
0:24:39 > 0:24:41I mean, whenever I think about my work as well,
0:24:41 > 0:24:46I know all my own problems and weaknesses and doubts.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48You know, you go through them all to end up with good work.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51Whereas, when I look at your work, I can't see any of it and I think...
0:24:51 > 0:24:55I have to remind myself that you're getting this finished,
0:24:55 > 0:24:57this beautiful, finished product.
0:24:57 > 0:25:01- Tell him that you're doubtful sometimes!- Yeah, yeah.
0:25:01 > 0:25:02You know, with Damien's work,
0:25:02 > 0:25:05what I always enjoy about Damien's work is its power.
0:25:05 > 0:25:10I mean, it's really visually... There is a strength there.
0:25:10 > 0:25:14It's always very confrontational in its power.
0:25:14 > 0:25:22The type of images, objects, things that are brought together
0:25:22 > 0:25:25are extremely well thought out, constructed.
0:25:25 > 0:25:29There is a natural quality about it that, even though there are kind of
0:25:29 > 0:25:35desperate and different things, they really unify themselves so well.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38It's just an amazing intellect and thought.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42I mean, this idea of a discussion about power and control
0:25:42 > 0:25:45and giving up control.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48I think that it's extremely strong in Damien's work.
0:25:48 > 0:25:54Look at the butterflies that are painted into the surface.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56I mean, it's a profound discourse.
0:25:56 > 0:26:00You both have attracted a lot of attention
0:26:00 > 0:26:06because of the vast amount of money that your art achieves.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09Do you think in a way that sometimes obscures your art?
0:26:09 > 0:26:12I kind of think that money can obscure things,
0:26:12 > 0:26:13especially in England.
0:26:13 > 0:26:17I think a lot of people think artists need to be poor,
0:26:17 > 0:26:19or that you can't have a focus of money.
0:26:19 > 0:26:21When I did my auction and made all that money,
0:26:21 > 0:26:22it changed everything for me.
0:26:22 > 0:26:26It was made in such a short period of time.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29I suddenly noticed that businessmen started taking me seriously.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32And there are audiences everywhere and audiences change.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34Money is a huge part of our life.
0:26:34 > 0:26:37I've always thought it's as important as love or death.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40Something to come to terms with, something to understand.
0:26:40 > 0:26:42It's a key and it's something you need to respect.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45But I definitely don't think it should be considered a dirty word.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48And once you have made the art and someone has bought it,
0:26:48 > 0:26:50does it matter to you that people might buy your art
0:26:50 > 0:26:54as a commodity rather than as something they love?
0:26:54 > 0:26:58I was always brought up to be self-reliant
0:26:58 > 0:27:03and so, I would sell drinks on golf courses,
0:27:03 > 0:27:06maybe the ninth hole, as a way to make money.
0:27:06 > 0:27:12I went door to door selling gift-wrapping paper and chocolates.
0:27:12 > 0:27:14And I enjoy the interaction with people,
0:27:14 > 0:27:18to be part of a dialogue with people like Warhol and Dali,
0:27:18 > 0:27:23Picabia, Picasso, you know, Manet, Leonardo.
0:27:23 > 0:27:28Just to be in a dialogue, a group. Here, to be a group with Damien.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30We're involved in a dialogue.
0:27:30 > 0:27:35It's an international discourse and there are hundreds of thousands
0:27:35 > 0:27:38of other people that we're connected to and we're having
0:27:38 > 0:27:43a dialogue about life and talking about art and how it's changed.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45It's changed my life.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48It's made my life vaster than it ever would have been
0:27:48 > 0:27:51if I didn't get involved in this dialogue.
0:27:51 > 0:27:55And that people are supportive to that ongoing dialogue
0:27:55 > 0:28:01hopefully is just a symbol that... contributing in some manner.
0:28:05 > 0:28:08The Jeff Koons: Now show at the Newport Street Gallery
0:28:08 > 0:28:12in London runs through until the 16th October and entry is free.
0:28:16 > 0:28:20# He has come to bring you things that make you happy
0:28:20 > 0:28:25# A gigantic puppy made of living flowers
0:28:25 > 0:28:30# A balloon dog like a helium Brancusi
0:28:30 > 0:28:34# And rocking Rococonary guitars
0:28:34 > 0:28:38# Basketballs suspended in Bavaria
0:28:38 > 0:28:43# Usher in the fat, contented pig
0:28:43 > 0:28:47# Whose every hair is hand-carved by Italian master craftsman
0:28:47 > 0:28:49# A porcelain Michael Jackson
0:28:49 > 0:28:53# And a vacuum cleaner stands amongst the stars. #