0:00:01 > 0:00:03BBC Four Collections.
0:00:03 > 0:00:05Specially chosen programmes from the BBC Archive.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11With any painting, there's no doubt
0:00:11 > 0:00:14one passes far more time looking at it,
0:00:14 > 0:00:18getting into a state of mind to take whatever action is necessary,
0:00:18 > 0:00:22than one does in actually manipulating a paintbrush.
0:00:22 > 0:00:27It feels like pulling yourself together on a high board
0:00:27 > 0:00:29before you attempt a swan dive.
0:00:31 > 0:00:35NARRATOR: 'Scenes from working lives, artists on film.
0:00:35 > 0:00:39'William Hayter in his Paris studio in 1964 -
0:00:39 > 0:00:42'the first time an abstract painter was filmed at work
0:00:42 > 0:00:43'talking about the job in hand.'
0:00:47 > 0:00:49HE WHISTLES
0:00:51 > 0:00:55The brush begins to move by itself
0:00:55 > 0:00:57in a sort of rhythmic fashion,
0:00:57 > 0:01:00because rhythm is involved in all these things, quite clearly.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02It is in the whole business of living -
0:01:02 > 0:01:06heartbeat, circulation, and so on,
0:01:06 > 0:01:08and the thing sort of takes off by itself.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17It can hardly be said to be uncontrolled,
0:01:17 > 0:01:20because there's quite clearly something controlling it,
0:01:20 > 0:01:23though one isn't entirely conscious of that.
0:01:23 > 0:01:24And there are other moments,
0:01:24 > 0:01:28of which one becomes conscious in a curious sort of way,
0:01:28 > 0:01:31in which absolute certainty is necessary.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Which doesn't mean they must be done painfully and meticulously.
0:01:34 > 0:01:38Even they have to be done very spontaneously and very freely,
0:01:38 > 0:01:43but they must be right, they must be right to the thickness of a hair,
0:01:43 > 0:01:45or the whole thing will fall apart.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07The general matter of the picture is something to do with the sea,
0:02:07 > 0:02:08the movement of water -
0:02:08 > 0:02:12not the appearance of the surface of waves,
0:02:12 > 0:02:15but the sense of what we understand about water,
0:02:15 > 0:02:18which is an extremely fundamental matter.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21It's a good subject one could work on most of one's life, if necessary.
0:02:31 > 0:02:36Everything that ever has been done to that canvas is visible,
0:02:36 > 0:02:40and the total effect should be of this rhythm, of this motion,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42and it should, if successful,
0:02:42 > 0:02:47involve the person that sees it in this flow and ebb of the sea.
0:02:58 > 0:02:59NARRATOR: 'In this programme
0:02:59 > 0:03:02'three other abstract painters are shown at work.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05'The point of such work is often questioned -
0:03:05 > 0:03:07'what does it mean?
0:03:07 > 0:03:11'Over the years on television, there have been several occasions
0:03:11 > 0:03:14'when the painters themselves have talked about what they have in mind,
0:03:14 > 0:03:16'what they're trying to achieve.'
0:03:19 > 0:03:21'John Hoyland was born in 1934.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26'In 1979 he was filmed over a six-day period
0:03:26 > 0:03:29'talking candidly about painting a picture.'
0:03:30 > 0:03:32MUSIC PLAYS ON RADIO
0:03:33 > 0:03:35I very often have the radio on
0:03:35 > 0:03:40because just that sort of constant junk that you hear,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43I find that it sort of empties my mind out,
0:03:43 > 0:03:45it sort of acts as a filter
0:03:45 > 0:03:50so that I don't get too conscious of what I'm doing.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52I think that's very useful.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57Plus, it stops you feeling so lonely!
0:04:02 > 0:04:05Just making a painting, I mean, is such a...
0:04:05 > 0:04:07It seems such a ridiculous...
0:04:07 > 0:04:10ridiculous activity, in a way.
0:04:10 > 0:04:14I mean, nobody wants it, particularly.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18And you don't know if you can do it,
0:04:18 > 0:04:20you don't know if you're strong enough to do it.
0:04:24 > 0:04:28It's just you on your own in a room.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39I don't know, you have some...
0:04:39 > 0:04:42Some barmy idea that you could...
0:04:42 > 0:04:44You know how to... You've had a glimpse of how
0:04:44 > 0:04:49you might be able to go ahead and make a painting, you know.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56I always start by staining it,
0:04:56 > 0:05:02but as far as the colour and the placing of the colour and so on...
0:05:04 > 0:05:07..you know, I don't have a clue what I'm going to be doing
0:05:07 > 0:05:10by the time I get to that side of the picture.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Somebody once said that painting on a blank white canvas
0:05:17 > 0:05:19was a bit like shadow boxing.
0:05:19 > 0:05:24There's nothing really to have a dialogue with at this point.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31Just the colour and getting it on.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35It'll give me something to work against later.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55I mean, you have to sort of...
0:05:55 > 0:05:59I mean, it's so fragile an activity, I think, making a painting,
0:05:59 > 0:06:03trying to bring a painting sort of into the world, as it were,
0:06:03 > 0:06:07that you have to sort of give yourself all sorts of barmy...
0:06:09 > 0:06:11..kid yourself along, you know.
0:06:11 > 0:06:17Kid the painting along and try to kind of keep your confidence up.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25I mean, you're painting these things that nobody wants,
0:06:25 > 0:06:29and the whole activity is sort of a bit unreal, in a way,
0:06:29 > 0:06:31at least while you're doing it.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34Everybody keeps coming out and saying it's rubbish,
0:06:34 > 0:06:35it's unreal.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38You know, then a lot of people,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41they're going to succumb to that, aren't they?
0:06:41 > 0:06:44They're going to think, Christ, it is pretty unreal, you know.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47During the three-day week, for instance,
0:06:47 > 0:06:50the whole country's grinding to a halt,
0:06:50 > 0:06:52and then here you are in a corner of the room
0:06:52 > 0:06:54with a feather duster in your hand
0:06:54 > 0:06:58kind of flicking away like some chambermaid or something.
0:06:58 > 0:07:03I mean, that's pretty unreal. You think, what the hell am I doing?
0:07:07 > 0:07:11It's all panic, panic at this point.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15I mean, I'm trying to coax the painting along,
0:07:15 > 0:07:18but I'm not trying to... impose on it, you know.
0:07:18 > 0:07:23I'm not trying to force a...a rigid idea on it.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27So things are just happening.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29And letting the paint...
0:07:29 > 0:07:31Trying to let the paint work for me, you know,
0:07:31 > 0:07:34trying to let the paint do things for me.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37It always amuses me when they...
0:07:37 > 0:07:40People say they've been having problems,
0:07:40 > 0:07:42nervous problems or suicidal problems,
0:07:42 > 0:07:46and they get them into painting as a form of therapy.
0:07:46 > 0:07:47HE CHUCKLES
0:07:47 > 0:07:49And that always amuses me because I think
0:07:49 > 0:07:51if you want to drive somebody crazy
0:07:51 > 0:07:53the thing to do is to get them painting.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55I mean, it's such a nerve-racking business,
0:07:55 > 0:07:59I don't see how anybody could relax with it.
0:08:09 > 0:08:14I think when you look at a painting, and you look at what's there,
0:08:14 > 0:08:16I think very often in my case...
0:08:18 > 0:08:22..the charge I get back from it is I get after-images back.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28So I often tend to paint the after-images in.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30I mean, somebody pointed that out to me.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33I didn't really notice it, but...
0:08:33 > 0:08:35So that if I...
0:08:35 > 0:08:40You know, I'll tend to put something that's kind of an opposite colour,
0:08:40 > 0:08:43or a colour that is perhaps...
0:08:43 > 0:08:47discordant with the one that's on there.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59The reason I like to sometimes put colour on this way,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02although it's terribly wasteful,
0:09:02 > 0:09:08is that it's a way of backing into...form,
0:09:08 > 0:09:15but at the same time not having to be inhibited by the hand
0:09:15 > 0:09:17and the sort of skills of the wrist.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20I mean, it allows for an element of control,
0:09:20 > 0:09:23but an element of chance at the same time.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44I've been knifing paintings for quite a long time now,
0:09:44 > 0:09:46I don't know why.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49Somehow I think that it's the density of the loading you get on it
0:09:49 > 0:09:50you don't get with a brush.
0:09:59 > 0:10:02The marks record the energy of the stroke,
0:10:02 > 0:10:06but it's no use just having energy in the stroke,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09because otherwise you've just got the record of energy.
0:10:09 > 0:10:13The image itself has got to build that energy that it can sustain.
0:10:57 > 0:10:58HE CHUCKLES
0:10:58 > 0:11:01I don't know if I should do this, but I'm going to just do it anyway,
0:11:01 > 0:11:05cos I'm not satisfied with what's there.
0:11:05 > 0:11:06So, see what happens.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13HARSH SCRAPING
0:11:26 > 0:11:28Of course, you feel very feeble at times, you know,
0:11:28 > 0:11:30you feel very vulnerable.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38I don't know what you want me to say
0:11:38 > 0:11:40I mean, you feel very vulnerable.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42But then you just have to keep going.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47You just have to look at the people
0:11:47 > 0:11:50that you respect, that you admire, and...
0:11:51 > 0:11:55You know, most of the critics I've ever met in my life
0:11:55 > 0:11:58are pretty damn feeble against the people I respect,
0:11:58 > 0:12:01so that's a pretty firm, you know, back-up.
0:12:07 > 0:12:12I'm not interested in the English idiosyncratic tradition
0:12:12 > 0:12:18of, say, Rowlandson, Hogarth, Hockney, etc.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20I don't know why that is.
0:12:20 > 0:12:26I'm much more attracted to the idea of paintings that mystify me,
0:12:26 > 0:12:28that overwhelm me.
0:12:33 > 0:12:38I'm more interested in, you know, jungle, desert, mountains.
0:12:38 > 0:12:43I'm not interested in painting pictures that resemble,
0:12:43 > 0:12:46you know, neat English gardens with gnomes.
0:12:48 > 0:12:50I like my paintings to overwhelm somebody.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53I mean, the sort of painting I like would overwhelm them,
0:12:53 > 0:12:55would make them think about it afterwards.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57It would, you know, blow their minds.
0:12:57 > 0:12:59That's what I'm interested in.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12NARRATOR: 'Patrick Heron, born 1920.'
0:13:17 > 0:13:19'Cornwall, 1983.
0:13:19 > 0:13:23'Heron has made his home here for the last 30 years.'
0:13:26 > 0:13:30'In that time, his work has undergone many changes,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33'both of subject matter and of style.'
0:13:57 > 0:13:58'Colour, he said,
0:13:58 > 0:14:02'is now the only direction in which painting can travel.'
0:14:20 > 0:14:22I started to draw at the age of two or three.
0:14:22 > 0:14:24I certainly can't remember
0:14:24 > 0:14:26ever having thought of ever doing anything else.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30There are two headlands, one behind the other -
0:14:30 > 0:14:31Clodgy and Man's Head -
0:14:31 > 0:14:35and I found some very careful drawings that I made
0:14:35 > 0:14:38at the age of eight of precisely the outline
0:14:38 > 0:14:40of these two headlands,
0:14:40 > 0:14:44and they are so close to so many of the profiles
0:14:44 > 0:14:47of the colour areas in my painting of the last ten years
0:14:47 > 0:14:50that it really gave me a profound shock.
0:14:56 > 0:15:01This very, very intense West Penwith light coming off the ocean -
0:15:01 > 0:15:05the nature of this light is to make what you see
0:15:05 > 0:15:09already pictorial, in a sense that, curiously enough,
0:15:09 > 0:15:12it flattens the silhouettes of headlands and rocks.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19So it's already amenable to pictorial treatment
0:15:19 > 0:15:21in a mid-20th century sense.
0:15:21 > 0:15:26The illusion of space out of flat planes of pictorial colour.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10The great thing about this studio is there are no windows,
0:16:10 > 0:16:14just this huge skylight, and the light comes in and echoes round.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21But...
0:16:21 > 0:16:25one of the things I always find myself doing every morning
0:16:25 > 0:16:30is altering the positions of everything on the walls
0:16:30 > 0:16:33so that it doesn't look as it looked the night before.
0:16:33 > 0:16:39I mean, one wants to get a new view on everything each morning, each day.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44And, of course, there's the other factor
0:16:44 > 0:16:48that the light in every square foot of the walls -
0:16:48 > 0:16:52of any room, actually - is very, very different.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58I make scores, possibly hundreds,
0:16:58 > 0:17:02of minute drawings on often small bits of paper.
0:17:04 > 0:17:05You mull it over.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07You think, right, that'll make a painting.
0:17:07 > 0:17:11Then you run this line, this network of lines in 60 seconds,
0:17:11 > 0:17:12and the whole thing is there.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15And it's there indelibly, it's there for ever.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20You know, roughly speaking,
0:17:20 > 0:17:22the sort of image you're going to project
0:17:22 > 0:17:24and your arm has to do it for you.
0:17:29 > 0:17:33What always takes time, of course, is finally having
0:17:33 > 0:17:37that sort of strange, sudden feeling that now is the moment to do it.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40I mean, I never know, looking back, why it was at that moment -
0:17:40 > 0:17:433.15 in the afternoon on a Friday or something -
0:17:43 > 0:17:47I suddenly, after having had this canvas around for quite a long time,
0:17:47 > 0:17:50committed myself. And then comes, of course,
0:17:50 > 0:17:52the question of the application of the colours.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01The actual putting on of the paint is pretty fast...
0:18:04 > 0:18:08..since it's oil paint and since I only want one layer of it,
0:18:08 > 0:18:12because it means the white of the priming is shining through.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15The moment you put two on, you've got an opacity and a deadness.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20And, of course, once you've started to apply colour
0:18:20 > 0:18:23in one of these white areas, you can't change your mind,
0:18:23 > 0:18:25because it stains the thing.
0:18:25 > 0:18:29That's why one walks up and down for weeks and months at a time
0:18:29 > 0:18:33just trying to become fully convinced that,
0:18:33 > 0:18:36right, this is going to be ultramarine,
0:18:36 > 0:18:39right, this is going to be cadmium red, and so on.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52Each kind of pigment has a totally different physical feel.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54Obviously, the ultramarines, the blues, the violets,
0:18:54 > 0:18:57are transparent and thin, they're almost like watercolour,
0:18:57 > 0:18:59and you're aware of this.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06But there is another thing governing, as it were,
0:19:06 > 0:19:10the different weaving of the brush inside different colour area shapes,
0:19:10 > 0:19:13and that is to do with the amount to be filled in.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21On a big area, obviously, there is a need
0:19:21 > 0:19:25almost to sort of swing this on in a much broader away.
0:19:43 > 0:19:47When one got actually to the frontier of a colour area,
0:19:47 > 0:19:49one wanted to be absolutely exact.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53No two colour areas can overlap even by hair's breadth
0:19:53 > 0:19:55because they'll produce a third colour,
0:19:55 > 0:19:57and you have to have a pretty fine point
0:19:57 > 0:19:59in order not to make these overlaps.
0:20:10 > 0:20:11Paintings are all about space,
0:20:11 > 0:20:15and that space is the product of colours operating upon each other.
0:20:18 > 0:20:23That really has been the subject of painting of all time.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33NARRATOR: 'Victor Pasmore was born in 1908.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36'He, too, has concentrated on space and spatial relationships,
0:20:36 > 0:20:37'often in monochrome.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43'Abstract work, he says, invites a special kind of attention.'
0:20:44 > 0:20:48I would hope that people come back to my pictures time and again
0:20:48 > 0:20:51and get something more out of it each time they come.
0:20:51 > 0:20:55Certainly, I would say, looking at a picture is a process of time,
0:20:55 > 0:20:57whether it's a modern picture or an old master.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03'Pasmore was 70 when this film was made
0:21:03 > 0:21:05'and he'd recently settled in Malta.
0:21:05 > 0:21:10'Here he spent a great deal of time shaping his own surroundings
0:21:10 > 0:21:12'with an eye to the abstract and geometrical forms
0:21:12 > 0:21:15'that had become an unmistakable feature of his paintings
0:21:15 > 0:21:18'and three-dimensional constructions.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24'Like many abstract artists, Pasmore had begun as a figurative painter.
0:21:24 > 0:21:28'It wasn't until he was 40 that he had his first show of abstract work.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31'That's a term he doesn't much care for, however,
0:21:31 > 0:21:34'since every image, in his view, relates to something else -
0:21:34 > 0:21:37'perhaps, eventually, to everything else.'
0:21:48 > 0:21:52Everything man makes will either look like something in nature
0:21:52 > 0:21:56or work like it, because man himself is a part of the natural process.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59The circle was there long before the wheel
0:21:59 > 0:22:02and the bird long before the aeroplane.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04This is an important point.
0:22:04 > 0:22:08The artist is both master and slave of his work.
0:22:08 > 0:22:10The process is reciprocal.
0:22:11 > 0:22:14If the ingredients are right, the picture will,
0:22:14 > 0:22:16to some extent, paint itself.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20For this reason, I like to paint only when I feel relaxed,
0:22:20 > 0:22:23so as to allow the picture to speak for itself.
0:22:23 > 0:22:26And it may take a long time, even years,
0:22:26 > 0:22:28in arriving at the simplest image.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32The artist must have some idea of what he's going to do
0:22:32 > 0:22:34in a purely physical sense.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36There are so many possibilities.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40He can make a dot, draw a line, dab with a brush,
0:22:40 > 0:22:44pour on the paint, or outline a formalised shape.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Each of these factors will form a particular image
0:22:47 > 0:22:49relative to its material and process.
0:23:41 > 0:23:44The style is dependent on what you start with.
0:23:44 > 0:23:49If you start with a blob, that will dictate a certain style.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53If I start with a line, it will dictate another line.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00I start with the physical painting, and the process will determine
0:24:00 > 0:24:02the style and the form of it, to some extent -
0:24:02 > 0:24:05not to the whole extent, but to some extent -
0:24:05 > 0:24:08and so it depends what I choose to start with.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09Pouring paint,
0:25:09 > 0:25:12I'm now 70 years old
0:25:12 > 0:25:15and I've got a long experience of painting.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20Behind that splodge of paint
0:25:20 > 0:25:24there's a lot of knowledge about painting.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28I repeat Whistler's famous remark in which,
0:25:28 > 0:25:33when asked why he charged 200 guineas for 20 minutes' work,
0:25:33 > 0:25:36replied, "I charge it for the knowledge of a lifetime."
0:25:39 > 0:25:42The kind of painting which I do,
0:25:42 > 0:25:45you can look at the picture from different angles.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49You can walk past it or look underneath it
0:25:49 > 0:25:52and get a different aspect without destroying it.
0:25:52 > 0:25:55I mean, if you look at a Rembrandt sideways on,
0:25:55 > 0:25:58you can't see the picture, you've got to look it dead on.
0:25:58 > 0:26:02In which case it therefore belongs to the old static position.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05But you don't have to look at modern painting
0:26:05 > 0:26:08only by standing bang in front of it.
0:26:08 > 0:26:10You can move, you get a completely new
0:26:10 > 0:26:14and sometimes more dynamic experience if you move on either side.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23I don't agree at all that the general public
0:26:23 > 0:26:26doesn't latch onto modern abstract painting.
0:26:26 > 0:26:30I've had some remarkable reactions from people
0:26:30 > 0:26:34who know nothing about painting, about abstract painting,
0:26:34 > 0:26:36far more interesting reactions
0:26:36 > 0:26:39than I get from so-called scholars of painting.
0:26:39 > 0:26:44In fact, the worst people, on the whole, are the...
0:26:44 > 0:26:47to understand it, are not the general public
0:26:47 > 0:26:49but the scholastics of painting.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53It's they who educate the public into preconceived ideas.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56I get no trouble from children looking at my pictures.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04Once you start working on the thing,
0:27:04 > 0:27:06the thing, the picture, tends to paint itself
0:27:06 > 0:27:09and go on automatically, on its own laws.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56The values of art are ones of feeling,
0:27:56 > 0:27:59and I believe there is a right and wrong in art,
0:27:59 > 0:28:01but it's something you must know inside you.
0:28:03 > 0:28:06NARRATOR: 'Artists and images.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09'With a last few words, the most influential sculptor
0:28:09 > 0:28:14'of his generation - Anthony Caro, born 1924.'
0:28:14 > 0:28:18It's very difficult, analysing what goes on in your mind
0:28:18 > 0:28:22when you're in the studio, because...
0:28:22 > 0:28:24I don't think it's very good
0:28:24 > 0:28:28to be too self-conscious about the actual process.
0:28:30 > 0:28:34'Scenes From Working Lives, filmed over the last 40 years.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37'In this series we've had a chance to see
0:28:37 > 0:28:41'more than 20 painters and sculptors going about their business,
0:28:41 > 0:28:45'making things and talking about what they do.
0:28:45 > 0:28:47'Whether they work with watercolour or oil paint,
0:28:47 > 0:28:52'iron or steel, bronze or marble, whatever the material,
0:28:52 > 0:28:54'whether their work is figurative or abstract,
0:28:54 > 0:28:58'they're all, in Caro's eyes, in the same business.'
0:29:01 > 0:29:03All art, I think,
0:29:03 > 0:29:06all art that's any good, that's worth its salt,
0:29:06 > 0:29:10seems to me to be...to do with what it's like to be a human being,
0:29:10 > 0:29:12to do with what it's like to be alive.
0:29:17 > 0:29:18'Artists On Film.'
0:29:25 > 0:29:27METALLIC HAMMERING
0:29:29 > 0:29:31SOFT BRUSHING
0:29:33 > 0:29:36GENTLE SCRAPING
0:29:43 > 0:29:45HARSH SCRAPING
0:29:48 > 0:29:50GENTLE TAPPING