:00:00. > :00:13.And we should say there is some strong language in this programme.
:00:14. > :00:16.In the 1990s, Juergen Teller's shots for the music and fashion industries
:00:17. > :00:18.turned him into 1 of the leading lights of commercial photography.
:00:19. > :00:20.His documentary style images were unlike anything the fashion
:00:21. > :00:32.Deliberately showing models unadorned with physical flaws.
:00:33. > :00:42.And they questioned our modern-day demands of perfection.
:00:43. > :00:48.Despite Juergen Teller's often brutal style, famous people
:00:49. > :00:50.still line up to be photographed by him.
:00:51. > :00:52.In my role as museum director, photography has
:00:53. > :01:00.And I'm especially interested in difficult photographs.
:01:01. > :01:02.In this way, I do believe Juergen Teller truly turned
:01:03. > :01:06.celebrity photography into something else.
:01:07. > :01:13.In this programme, I will meet the man behind some of the most
:01:14. > :01:24.I'm privileged to have been granted access to Juergen Teller's studio
:01:25. > :01:40.For a conversation about fame and celebrity. In the course of one year
:01:41. > :01:45.he photographed hundreds of models on his doorstep. I guess I'm
:01:46. > :02:11.today's. Let's go down. There are a of pictures here famous
:02:12. > :02:18.people. Also in people. I see family, yourself. Here is Lily Cole.
:02:19. > :02:24.And Patti Smith. And Vivienne Westwood. What is your interest in
:02:25. > :02:33.famous people, why so many famous people? That's a good question.
:02:34. > :02:36.Well, you know, there's a thing about these famous people.
:02:37. > :02:38.I'm not really interested in famous people, I'm interested
:02:39. > :02:43.And all these people you mentioned, they do something which means
:02:44. > :02:48.So you are not really after a celebration of fame?
:02:49. > :02:58.The fame doesn't interest me whatsoever.
:02:59. > :03:01.What I'm trying to say is, like, Kurt Cobain, I was so mesmerised
:03:02. > :03:14.The way you photograph these famous people is very,
:03:15. > :03:21.It's a celebration, both of what they stand for,
:03:22. > :03:27.but also a celebration of your own view of your own life,
:03:28. > :03:31.in a way, do these things come together.
:03:32. > :03:33.in a way, do these things come together?
:03:34. > :03:35.Yeah, that's why they are all, in a way, mixed up.
:03:36. > :03:42.They all kind of, for me, sit happily next to each other.
:03:43. > :03:45.People ask me, do you photograph so many nudes, do you photograph
:03:46. > :03:52.I photographed food, I photograph my mum,
:03:53. > :04:00.If I'm interested in it I do it and I find the same pleasure
:04:01. > :04:02.of photographing landscapes and of photographing a naked woman
:04:03. > :04:10.But when we go to the next wall here, there's an interesting...
:04:11. > :04:18.Not contradiction, but sometimes you, like the picture
:04:19. > :04:21.of Victoria Beckham disappearing in this oversized bag,
:04:22. > :04:26.Victoria Beckham moved to America because of David Beckham,
:04:27. > :04:29.to LA, then she started to go to fashion shows.
:04:30. > :04:34.And that was Marc Jacobs fashion show.
:04:35. > :04:37.And the fashion world was outraged about, what the hell is she suddenly
:04:38. > :04:41.Marc called me up and said, what do you think about using her
:04:42. > :04:46.I was like immediately, that's a brilliant idea,
:04:47. > :04:52.but we've got to do something, we can't laugh at, we've got to make
:04:53. > :04:55.but we've got to do something, we can't laugh at her,
:04:56. > :05:06.And we both came up with the idea to build a huge shopping bag.
:05:07. > :05:10.And put her in this big bag with her legs dangling down,
:05:11. > :05:17.Some woman's doctor scenario, then these fashionable shoes
:05:18. > :05:19.sticking out. She was not afraid that she would,
:05:20. > :05:21.you know, that people would laugh at her?
:05:22. > :05:22.That she would truly become an object?
:05:23. > :05:39.Or there is no limit at all? Well, the thing is, it's pretty obvious
:05:40. > :05:42.in this photograph that she is part of it, right, I'm not
:05:43. > :05:52.She is obviously going into this bag.
:05:53. > :05:53.Sometimes you also portray these famous people
:05:54. > :06:10.I'd probably have to admit I have maybe quite a brutal,
:06:11. > :06:30.Because the clown, the tradition of the clown is somebody
:06:31. > :06:33.who we like to warmly embrace because he or she,
:06:34. > :06:37.the clown, tells us something, that our life is maybe not
:06:38. > :06:43.Well, I think I see this in a way, the absurdity of life.
:06:44. > :06:55.Life throws us so many obstacles and sadness and difficult...
:06:56. > :06:57.You know, my father killed himself early on, that really scarred me
:06:58. > :07:02.but I don't want to talk about it much now.
:07:03. > :07:09.But I want to see, also, have a bit of fun with life.
:07:10. > :07:17.See the absurdity of, like, how beautiful but also how absurd the
:07:18. > :07:20.fashion industry is, you know. That means you have a love
:07:21. > :07:22.and hate relationship But how can you work within that
:07:23. > :07:27.system if you have a love Or is that why people keep asking
:07:28. > :07:36.you to work within the system? Because you are inside
:07:37. > :07:41.and outside at the same time? Fashion is a wonderful vehicle
:07:42. > :07:50.to create a certain fantasy world. But that's the funny thing,
:07:51. > :07:53.within this fantasy, what I'm doing, it
:07:54. > :07:59.looks incredibly real. My way of photographing,
:08:00. > :08:02.it's very harsh and very real. Juergen Teller arrived in London
:08:03. > :08:21.from his native Germany in 1986. In the 1990s became part
:08:22. > :08:23.of a new aesthetic in the fashion industry, which was
:08:24. > :08:30.dubbed anti-fashion. Its poster girl was
:08:31. > :08:32.the young Kate Moss. What I like about Kate is that
:08:33. > :08:40.she's really lively, I really like her, she's very quirky
:08:41. > :08:44.and very full of energy. I've always liked what he does,
:08:45. > :08:47.what he makes the pictures look like and, you know,
:08:48. > :08:49.what he makes you feel What was your attraction
:08:50. > :09:07.with Kate Moss? She didn't fit the role
:09:08. > :09:14.of supermodel, she was shorter, quirky, she had super energy,
:09:15. > :09:17.she was super exciting. She wasn't sort of untouchable,
:09:18. > :09:26.like Linda Evangelista was. Somebody has called your work
:09:27. > :09:29.an example of dirty realism. Do you recognise your own work
:09:30. > :09:32.in these kinds of descriptions? There's also an incredible
:09:33. > :09:42.romanticism in my work, you know, and a beauty
:09:43. > :09:55.in it, you know? Teller became one of the most sought
:09:56. > :09:57.after fashion photographers in the world with a string of
:09:58. > :10:01.high-profile advertising campaigns. In 1998 he began photographing
:10:02. > :10:12.aspiring models on his doorstep. It was both an innovative
:10:13. > :10:15.photographing project and a subtle critique of the fashion
:10:16. > :10:18.industry itself. I had clients flying me Concord
:10:19. > :10:36.to photograph these supermodels. These pictures came out
:10:37. > :10:39.and other pictures I did, so it became sort
:10:40. > :10:41.of known in industry. Agencies started
:10:42. > :10:45.sending me these girls. And because of Kate Moss,
:10:46. > :10:47.model agencies thought, it's going to be really easy to find
:10:48. > :10:50.a new Kate Moss and make The stream of strange looking girls
:10:51. > :10:57.who came flooding was enormous. It was all over a period of one
:10:58. > :11:06.year and when there was, In summer less, but when there
:11:07. > :11:18.was London Fashion Week for example You opened the door,
:11:19. > :11:24.they knocked, they rang the bell, Then I asked them to come
:11:25. > :11:31.in and have a cup of tea or coffee Then I'd look at their
:11:32. > :11:35.portfolio and talk to them. And then I asked, can
:11:36. > :11:38.I take a picture of you? Here's a release form,
:11:39. > :11:42.I'm trying to do this and this. And then within the
:11:43. > :11:57.parameter of my door. So it's like, maybe, two meters into
:11:58. > :12:07.my house. Even one metre into my house only. Around the door. And
:12:08. > :12:10.then just hear opposite. It established his reputation as a high
:12:11. > :12:16.concept experimental photographer who challenged the fashion
:12:17. > :12:21.industry's very notion of itself. In 2004 he embarked upon an even more
:12:22. > :12:25.radical advertising campaign with an actress who over a number of years
:12:26. > :12:31.had become his muse. In an extraordinary shoot for the fashion
:12:32. > :12:37.house Marc Jacobs at a Paris hotel, Juergen Teller cast himself in the
:12:38. > :12:42.role of her young lover, wearing a pair of satin shorts or nothing at
:12:43. > :12:48.all. There's one exception in your body of work, a truly amazing story,
:12:49. > :12:55.there is one person who you feel so close to. And you treat completely
:12:56. > :13:04.differently from everybody else. Which is Charlotte Rampling. Why
:13:05. > :13:11.Charlotte Rampling? You know, I was so in all of her. Image wise. For
:13:12. > :13:24.some reason or another. I remember I photographed her for Liberacion
:13:25. > :13:28.newspaper. My first book came out in 1996 by Taschen. She comes in,
:13:29. > :13:32.really harsh with the way she looks, she is not forthcoming whatsoever
:13:33. > :13:38.when you meet her at the beginning, she can be really frightening. She
:13:39. > :13:44.says, you've got, five or ten minutes, she said, to photograph me.
:13:45. > :13:49.I was like... That's not very long, right? I was like, oh my good, I
:13:50. > :13:53.thought fuck it, I'm going to take a chance. I said before I photograph
:13:54. > :13:59.you, can I take five minutes, you looking at this book. I knew I have
:14:00. > :14:04.five minutes left to photograph you, doesn't matter, I'll take it, look
:14:05. > :14:12.at this book. She looks at this book, then looks at pictures of your
:14:13. > :14:16.smiling with her son, and of Kate Moss, Nirvana and everything. She
:14:17. > :14:19.closes the book and says, take out whether long you want. There's
:14:20. > :14:25.another aspect in these photographs when I look at Kate Moss, when I
:14:26. > :14:32.look at especially when we look at Charlotte Rampling, there is a form
:14:33. > :14:39.of intimacy you establish with these so-called famous people. Maybe is
:14:40. > :14:44.that they were matters as you are talking about? We feel like we know
:14:45. > :14:48.them suddenly much better. You are capable to give us an intimacy that
:14:49. > :14:59.is not the foyer, you are not the foyer. They completely trust me,
:15:00. > :15:02.these people. -- voyeur. When I'm in the room doing it I'm fully there,
:15:03. > :15:11.fully occupying this room, talking to them, doing things with them.
:15:12. > :15:12.They know, they can see from myself portraits how far I go. I'm
:15:13. > :15:18.constantly in it. They They know what they might get
:15:19. > :15:21.into themselves when I'm taking Some people don't even
:15:22. > :15:24.want to go there. But when they get involved with me,
:15:25. > :15:28.they have a sense of where When we look at photographs,
:15:29. > :15:38.your own photographs but also photographs you make of other
:15:39. > :15:43.people, famous and unfamous, The way you work with nudity
:15:44. > :15:47.is quite something else from the nudity we know
:15:48. > :15:50.through the history of art, It's not so much I would say
:15:51. > :15:59.the elegance of nudity, it's not like nudity as a fetish,
:16:00. > :16:03.it's not voyeuristic. I grew up in the countryside next
:16:04. > :16:12.to the forest and we had a sauna and one of those cheap swimming
:16:13. > :16:15.pools and it was always normal So that became, completely,
:16:16. > :16:22.since I'm a child, Before anybody else,
:16:23. > :16:32.I started photographing me naked, I wanted to do that as natural
:16:33. > :16:37.and normal and pure as possible and I didn't want to deal
:16:38. > :16:40.with a dress code. I didn't want to deal with fashion,
:16:41. > :16:43.which is where my -- The first self portrait
:16:44. > :16:53.I did was in the forest, at my swimming pool,
:16:54. > :16:55.coming out of the sauna. And then I got really
:16:56. > :17:03.attracted to the skin. Not only my skin, but also
:17:04. > :17:06.the muscle, the fat, It's like how you look
:17:07. > :17:12.at a tree or something Lily cold skin, so white
:17:13. > :17:22.and unbrown. And this person has black skin
:17:23. > :17:28.and they have white here. When you look really carefully,
:17:29. > :17:32.it's all really interesting. When we look at your work,
:17:33. > :17:35.it's almost like a continuation of an art canon which is called
:17:36. > :17:40.the grotesque, starting in the 16th century, 17th century -
:17:41. > :17:45.think about Goya - 18th century. The grotesque is like we know,
:17:46. > :17:50.we recognise that our life is not all that ideal and we have
:17:51. > :17:56.to give that recognition, that we cannot achieve this ideal
:17:57. > :18:02.life, this ideal form. We have to give that a form,
:18:03. > :18:07.and that's called the grotesque. Do you see your work
:18:08. > :18:13.in the tradition of the grotesque? I guess you are right,
:18:14. > :18:18.yeah, possibly. Are there any famous people
:18:19. > :18:27.you refuse to photograph? Are there any famous people
:18:28. > :18:30.who call up and say, Juergen, I want to have
:18:31. > :18:32.a photograph of myself. That is a good example,
:18:33. > :18:53.because that is a big question mark. I really thought, "Should I actually
:18:54. > :18:56.go there and photograph him? He asked you if you
:18:57. > :19:03.think he was guilty. I was photographing in a hotel room
:19:04. > :19:10.with my two cameras - And then he suddenly
:19:11. > :19:16.leans over and says, "Juergen, who do you
:19:17. > :19:19.think who's done it?" And I knew I wanted to be
:19:20. > :19:28.with him on my own. I thought somehow, I felt,
:19:29. > :19:34."I've got to face "this guy And I was so shocked
:19:35. > :19:38.about this question. Certainly, he has a sense of needing
:19:39. > :19:53.to say something. And then I used my cameras
:19:54. > :20:00.to hide myself, and then I was still using film and suddenly
:20:01. > :20:05.the film ran out and went... I was like, "It looks
:20:06. > :20:08.good, stay like that." And then both cameras
:20:09. > :20:12.were empty and I felt like, "I can't pretend to
:20:13. > :20:15.photograph any more." And I just thought, "I need to get
:20:16. > :20:29.the fuck out of here Earlier this year, Teller hit
:20:30. > :20:37.the headlines with a new, audacious project involving
:20:38. > :20:40.the world's most famous celebrity This was also a supplement made
:20:41. > :20:59.for a sister magazine. He wanted to be photographed
:21:00. > :21:12.for the cover of New York Times, which turned out a really good
:21:13. > :21:16.experience and it was And then we met up again
:21:17. > :21:22.in Paris and I thought, And I had this chateau like an hour
:21:23. > :21:35.outside and I just thought, Wow, they are Americans
:21:36. > :21:40.and there is this good looking That's where they got married,
:21:41. > :21:50.in some nice place in Tuscany. I rather was attracted
:21:51. > :21:55.to the sandpit, you know. And I thought that was more
:21:56. > :21:59.obscure and weird. How did you explain to them
:22:00. > :22:06.what you wanted to do? How did you explain,
:22:07. > :22:09."I'm not going to make fun of you, I always have this kind of way
:22:10. > :22:15.of convincing people. And I have this complete urge
:22:16. > :22:28.of doing it and I feel it I don't sit there and
:22:29. > :22:33.intellectualise things That's why I probably can
:22:34. > :22:43.convince people to do things I think, "What do you think
:22:44. > :22:57.about that sandpit? They looked at me and thought,
:22:58. > :23:04."Oh, yeah." I thought, "Oh, God,
:23:05. > :23:11.there is something missing And I remember when Kanye said
:23:12. > :23:23.to Kim, "This is how it is to work with three A-listers",
:23:24. > :23:28.which meant her, him and me. That's when I thought, "Actually,
:23:29. > :23:30.what's missing is I'm missing Because some pictures got taken out,
:23:31. > :23:38.I just thought, I'm going to go back there and get involved and walk
:23:39. > :23:52.the countryside and go further. In this book, Kanye,
:23:53. > :23:56.Kim And Juergen, you are playing, and the way you are dressed also,
:23:57. > :24:06.you are playing a kind of Mr Normal. Do you want these famous
:24:07. > :24:09.people to say, "Listen, "when you work with me,
:24:10. > :24:14.there is a chance you can be In his most recent series
:24:15. > :24:32.of photographs, The Clinic, Teller turns his uncompromising
:24:33. > :24:35.gaze on his own life, looking back at his
:24:36. > :24:39.troubled family history. There is a recent book about death
:24:40. > :24:43.but also about resurrection, On my 50th birthday,
:24:44. > :25:06.I made a big party at my mum's place and I invited just the widest family
:25:07. > :25:12.members, from cousins and everything who I haven't seen for many
:25:13. > :25:16.years and everything. Anyway, they all turned up
:25:17. > :25:19.and they all came and my cousin, who I got into photography
:25:20. > :25:24.in the first place, made me He looked at all these slides my dad
:25:25. > :25:31.took when I was little. He made these incredible,
:25:32. > :25:36.touching books, which you can do now He digitised all these recorder
:25:37. > :25:44.chromes. And these are photographs
:25:45. > :25:58.made by your father. And then I thought, this was totally
:25:59. > :26:03.shocking, I nearly cried. This is me, but it
:26:04. > :26:10.looks like my son. And it looks like many of the faces
:26:11. > :26:14.in these photographs. And the way it's photographed
:26:15. > :26:18.is so much like how I photograph, The new project combines
:26:19. > :26:23.the old family photos with pictures Teller took on his recent stint
:26:24. > :26:26.at a health clinic. The result is a powerful series
:26:27. > :26:33.about family and memory. One of the most arresting images
:26:34. > :26:36.sees him standing naked on his father's grave,
:26:37. > :26:43.clutching an empty beer bottle. I didn't know exactly what to do
:26:44. > :26:46.with it until I went It's called the Mayo Clinic
:26:47. > :27:00.and that was last February. Where I kind of got tired
:27:01. > :27:08.of smoking and drinking. I smoked like 30 cigarettes
:27:09. > :27:11.and I thought I became Every time I needed to do some work
:27:12. > :27:17.or made a phone call, I would have been constantly smoking
:27:18. > :27:23.cigarettes in this interview. I just drank too much and I kind
:27:24. > :27:28.of wanted to change, And a friend of mine said,
:27:29. > :27:34."I'm going to "stop drinking for a year", and I liked that idea,
:27:35. > :27:38.to do something, to be... And that's what I'm
:27:39. > :27:45.doing at the moment. OK, because you have to tell me
:27:46. > :28:09.what to do. That's all from my
:28:10. > :28:18.addition of Artsnight.