:00:00. > :00:12.Now for arts and night, presented by Andrew Graham Dixon.
:00:13. > :00:18.I've been a professional art critic for more than three decades and in
:00:19. > :00:21.that time I've come to believe that the essential power of art comes in
:00:22. > :00:28.the ability of art to provoke people to think about their lives in new
:00:29. > :00:33.and unexpected ways. For my edition of this programme, I want to explore
:00:34. > :00:36.that process in action, to eavesdrop on the actual conversations people
:00:37. > :00:41.have in art galleries, and I think the results will surprise you.
:00:42. > :00:47.And, in fact, if statistics are to be believed, we are now
:00:48. > :00:56.Don't think you're allowed to, but I agree, you want to stroke it.
:00:57. > :01:00.Last year alone, nearly 5 million of us flocked to Tate Modern
:01:01. > :01:18.I'm really weirded out that that is a self-portrait...
:01:19. > :01:23.Sometimes we're left perplexed, or simply nonplussed.
:01:24. > :01:26.All I think is, what if it's upside down?
:01:27. > :01:32.But what is really going on inside people's heads
:01:33. > :01:34.as they gaze at a Henry Moore sculpture or a Francis
:01:35. > :01:43.No, long gone - too much medication, too much shock treatment.
:01:44. > :01:48.In a unique experiment with the Tate, we invited
:01:49. > :01:51.a cross-section of British society to reveal just what they think
:01:52. > :01:57.of some of our most famous public artworks.
:01:58. > :02:01.OK, hear me out - there's an element of a three-way going on there.
:02:02. > :02:05.Using concealed cameras, we eavesdropped on their often frank
:02:06. > :02:08.conversations as they came face to face with a range of works that
:02:09. > :02:12.deal with love, family and friendship.
:02:13. > :02:23.Their reactions were varied and surprising ?
:02:24. > :02:33.Proof - if proof be needed ? that, while experts can help us
:02:34. > :02:35.better understand art, we don't always need them
:02:36. > :02:41.I think that hand up is very striking.
:02:42. > :03:05.Yes, you could lie in there like a cat.
:03:06. > :03:08.The first work to come under the spotlight was this bronze
:03:09. > :03:12.sculpture made in 1949 by Henry Moore ? regarded
:03:13. > :03:17.as ground-breaking in his time, but apparently less so today.
:03:18. > :03:19.It's a bit old-fashioned in some ways, isn't it,
:03:20. > :03:32.So they still have a little way to go.
:03:33. > :03:38.Very interesting how both aren't even looking at the child.
:03:39. > :03:43.Yes, looks like he is handing the baby over cos he's had enough.
:03:44. > :03:58.We're not used to having the conventional nuclear family
:03:59. > :03:59.It's not really been our experience in life.
:04:00. > :04:05.There's something about this that brings a smile to my face.
:04:06. > :04:09.Is that them with their little newborn baby?
:04:10. > :04:12.But, as with all great artists, their work can mean very different
:04:13. > :04:18.And the fact that Moore made this work to celebrate the birth
:04:19. > :04:21.of his only and long-awaited child clearly struck a chord with this
:04:22. > :04:26.couple, Oliver and Melissa, with baby Maxwell.
:04:27. > :04:41.To be fair, he's got a six pack, which I am working towards.
:04:42. > :04:51.He'd just turned 29, cos our birthdays are only
:04:52. > :04:55.I'm a year older and he's younger so I'm a cougar,
:04:56. > :05:01.And I think a year into the relationship we had
:05:02. > :05:04.a conversation about when we wanted children, and I said I sensed that
:05:05. > :05:08.possibility there could be something wrong.
:05:09. > :05:11.I had a very bad infection when I was a teenager that
:05:12. > :05:16.scarred my tubes so there was a very small chance I could get pregnant
:05:17. > :05:20.and, if I were to get pregnant, there's a 5% chance it would be
:05:21. > :05:26.So they said the best thing to do was have the tubes
:05:27. > :05:34.If you'd have told me just then what we would have gone through now,
:05:35. > :05:36.you still would not comprehend cos it was just...
:05:37. > :05:43.I don't think there's a reading on this.
:05:44. > :05:50.It would be nice to see if they struggled like we did.
:05:51. > :05:53.There is something about it that jumps out, that they went
:05:54. > :05:58.Because we were given such positive information,
:05:59. > :06:10.It was just the tube thing and it should happen first time.
:06:11. > :06:12.When it didn't happen first time, we were not prepared
:06:13. > :06:24.at all and we just couldn't get out of this dark place of doom.
:06:25. > :06:29.That was the only time I thought our relationship was truly
:06:30. > :06:32.on the rocks and we might not be able to come back together cos
:06:33. > :06:35.we were each depressed, each in our low and we couldn't get
:06:36. > :06:39.The places that we were within ourselves and in our relationship...
:06:40. > :06:42.Yeah, I didn't know where he was and he didn't know
:06:43. > :07:03.We didn't even think we'd get a positive test.
:07:04. > :07:09.I think she's proud that she conquered and she did this.
:07:10. > :07:19.The thing that captivates, where we were, it's not like a smile
:07:20. > :07:21.It's just tranquil confidence that we've actually achieved it.
:07:22. > :07:30.You have just described it - that is what is in their eyes.
:07:31. > :07:32.We still look at Maxwell and we can't believe
:07:33. > :07:35.he's ours and I always thank him for coming and being our son.
:07:36. > :07:54.People didn't live that long in them ages.
:07:55. > :07:56.If she was 40, what, back in the 1500s,
:07:57. > :08:20.Real quick and she probably had a second kid already!
:08:21. > :08:25.They say to keep politics out of religion and to keep religion out of
:08:26. > :08:29.politics but when were they ever separate? Lord but look my child.
:08:30. > :08:31.Gender politics lies at the heart of this large-scale drawing
:08:32. > :08:34.by Sonia Boyce, in which she depicts herself as two very different
:08:35. > :08:48.It's like an alter ego, so it's like the Christian who's
:08:49. > :08:51.praying who's got the eyes closed and the Rastafarian has
:08:52. > :08:53.got her hand up saying, "Talk to that, my eyes are open,
:08:54. > :09:25.I haven't read it yet, but looking at it, he's doing
:09:26. > :09:34.the praying MP and she's laying down ready for MS and she's thinking,
:09:35. > :09:40.Oh, that's true, it's actually a woman...
:09:41. > :09:43.In tackling religion, politics and feminism head on,
:09:44. > :09:49.Boyce's work seems calculated to divide opinion.
:09:50. > :10:02.I think that hand up is very striking.
:10:03. > :10:05.So are you saying the lady in the dress is saying,
:10:06. > :10:07."I've had enough, you're not going to control me any more?"
:10:08. > :10:11."I'm going off, I'm going my way", all flamboyant -
:10:12. > :10:14.I think I went through that journey when I got here...
:10:15. > :10:24.Coming here from Nigeria, I felt like an immigrant
:10:25. > :10:26.because I hadn't grown up here so I really felt detached
:10:27. > :10:28.from our community, detached from everything I knew.
:10:29. > :10:31.And it was the Church that kind of made it easier to settle
:10:32. > :10:35.here so it was a big part of us when we came here in the '90s.
:10:36. > :10:38.But, in last five years or so, I started questioning,
:10:39. > :10:40.so I've kind of stepped back a bit from the Church,
:10:41. > :10:42.finding out about different faiths, about different world views,
:10:43. > :10:47.different ideology, and I'm trying to make up my own mind.
:10:48. > :10:51.I'm questioning a lot of this cos suddenly I see it just controlling
:10:52. > :10:54.women and that's how I would link...
:10:55. > :10:59.Yeah, I really started seeing religion as controlling women,
:11:00. > :11:04.trying to get women to obey, all this, you know, submit
:11:05. > :11:13.to your husband in every area of life.
:11:14. > :11:19.There is inequality between men and women, it's as simple as that.
:11:20. > :11:22.And Dapo, he is a feminist to a point because there are men,
:11:23. > :11:25.especially African men, who would not do 1% of what Dap does
:11:26. > :11:28.in the home, and I am really grateful that he is like that but,
:11:29. > :11:31.on the other hand, I get angry that people are baffled
:11:32. > :11:37.It shouldn't be anything special, you know?
:11:38. > :11:40.So are you saying you don't see any kind of religion
:11:41. > :11:46.Maybe you've got a point but maybe I don't see it the way you see it.
:11:47. > :11:49.The only thing I do see is that women follow easily
:11:50. > :11:53.without questioning whereas men are a lot more "prove it to me",
:11:54. > :12:02.The benefits of the feminist views...
:12:03. > :12:06.Ideally, I would like to plead the fifth, because none readily jump
:12:07. > :12:10.out at me, unless you can help me out?
:12:11. > :12:24.I know I don't do anything to perpetuate, to hold women down.
:12:25. > :12:29.I'm trying to choose my words carefully, so I don't get shot
:12:30. > :12:33.We don't shoot down, we make changes.
:12:34. > :12:42.The colours are fabulous, the only thing I don't like actually
:12:43. > :12:55.Well, it's more skin-like, isn't it, and the purple's unexpected.
:12:56. > :12:58.These two are a lot more flowing, he must have had an off day
:12:59. > :13:07.She's not sat on a chair though, is she?
:13:08. > :13:15.It doesn't look muscular, it looks...
:13:16. > :13:28.I would say, personally, they are all men.
:13:29. > :13:32.Do you know what, this is my holiday home.
:13:33. > :13:44.This is me, sitting there with my Pepsi Max
:13:45. > :13:47.I think it shows calm and serenity on one side
:13:48. > :13:49.and then it shows chaos on the other side and,
:13:50. > :13:52.and it is probably symbolic of something
:13:53. > :13:54.that was going on his life at the time.
:13:55. > :13:56.David Hockney produced A Bigger Splash in 1967,
:13:57. > :13:59.the same year that homosexuality was decriminalised in Britain,
:14:00. > :14:02.making him a poster boy for a new generation.
:14:03. > :14:04.But the freedoms the law promised, Hockney realised, could at that time
:14:05. > :14:19.He might be on his own there, but he's making a bigger
:14:20. > :14:37.He's jumping in and there's a bit of freedom to it.
:14:38. > :14:40.Yeah, but I was just sort of thinking if I look back on myself
:14:41. > :15:00.I was only married for about three years
:15:01. > :15:04.and it was a terrible, terrible mistake, and if I had been
:15:05. > :15:13.now of course I wouldn't have got married but in those days
:15:14. > :15:17.the feelings, the feelings, the attitudes, the assumptions
:15:18. > :15:27.And people say to people now, "Why did you get married"?
:15:28. > :15:30.And that's a question that doesn't relate to the context
:15:31. > :15:36.And I just assumed that all the feelings I had
:15:37. > :15:39.in the '50s and '60s would simply go away, that being married
:15:40. > :15:45.was what you did and that that would be in the past.
:15:46. > :15:50.And then I had to realise that that wasn't how it was.
:15:51. > :15:52.You could argue I'm a bit envious of the fact that someone
:15:53. > :16:00.in 1967 could leave his home country and be a gay man and go
:16:01. > :16:03.to the relative freedom of California, cos not everybody
:16:04. > :16:13.and its only in recent times that we are able to feel it.
:16:14. > :16:18.I mean, for us being able to do our civil registration,
:16:19. > :16:24.what, two years ago, was something you wouldn't have
:16:25. > :16:32.conceived of as being possible in 1967.
:16:33. > :16:42.And here we are now in sort of married bliss.
:16:43. > :16:56.Yeah, we thought if we were going to live together then let's
:16:57. > :17:00.Probably we just think it's a normal thing
:17:01. > :17:04.I mean we do still have to explain to people,
:17:05. > :17:14.Yeah, well, recently I was accused of being your brother, wasn't I?
:17:15. > :17:15.They went, "Oh, are you two brothers",
:17:16. > :17:23.It's even worse when they say am I your father!
:17:24. > :17:39.in California is that you could argue he's solitary
:17:40. > :17:46.but at the same time he's able to have a ball with,
:17:47. > :17:49.in a sense, whoever he wants to, but particularly
:17:50. > :17:59.And so the splash is a celebration I expect, isn't it?
:18:00. > :18:03.More than a celebration, it's an activity.
:18:04. > :18:20.Oh, I don't know what Aunt Ethel would say!
:18:21. > :18:29.I'm scared of the dead person in the middle.
:18:30. > :18:42.It's too weird, and what are all the little flowers for?
:18:43. > :18:44.Well, it's a celebration of something.
:18:45. > :18:49.It doesn't look like a celebration to me!
:18:50. > :18:51.Everyone is climbing out of their graves.
:18:52. > :19:04.Donald Rodney, In The House Of My Father.
:19:05. > :19:16.Donald Rodney took this arresting photograph of his hand,
:19:17. > :19:23.when he was being treated in hospital for sickle cell anaemia,
:19:24. > :19:29.a debilitating, hereditary disease that eventually killed him.
:19:30. > :19:32.You know with sickle cell it can be hereditary so maybe
:19:33. > :19:35.Or maybe he got it from his father,
:19:36. > :19:53.Yeah, and there's a nail through his skin
:19:54. > :20:01.Maybe the pins are a symbol of needles.
:20:02. > :20:03.When you have crisis it's like a pins and needles feeling
:20:04. > :20:16.When I was diagnosed, I was diagnosed
:20:17. > :20:20.at the age of four, so at that age I weren't too sure what sickle cell
:20:21. > :20:23.was but I knew it was something serious and I knew whenever
:20:24. > :20:26.I was tired and fatigued and my joints began to swell,
:20:27. > :20:29.there was something going on and I knew I had to go
:20:30. > :20:36.Recently, over the last two years I've experienced a lot
:20:37. > :20:43.of admittances to hospital, and when that happens
:20:44. > :20:45.there are three people I think about.
:20:46. > :20:55.they know what I'll be feeling, and feeling mentally
:20:56. > :21:03.She's a very strong person and likes to put up
:21:04. > :21:20.a front, like she's well and, "I'm fine, I'm fine".
:21:21. > :21:23.So I am genuinely always concerned for her and always make
:21:24. > :21:36.I feel funny talking about this, you know.
:21:37. > :21:42.Cos he did die, you know, he did die of sickle cell.
:21:43. > :21:56.You try to hold yourself together all the time.
:21:57. > :22:12.I don't know what that is all about, do you?
:22:13. > :22:29.Yes, that could be it, that's more like it,
:22:30. > :22:40.Yes, you and I are too old for this sort of out.
:22:41. > :22:42.First thing that comes to my mind is...
:22:43. > :22:54.I would have gone the other way, more female parts than that.
:22:55. > :23:02.The wrap for me is just like a studded manly type of thing
:23:03. > :23:17.This challenging sculpture by Cathy de Monchaux was always
:23:18. > :23:22.bound to provoke a spirited debate, especially between couples.
:23:23. > :23:27.But for some it resonated even deeper.
:23:28. > :23:37.It's a bit zippy and there's something kind of very
:23:38. > :23:40.Yes, that crushed red velvet. Yeah.
:23:41. > :23:51.There is a touch of that, "Let me get in...
:23:52. > :24:03.In some ways I feel I have the urban legend mum.
:24:04. > :24:06.And sometimes I forget that my mum is my mum.
:24:07. > :24:09.I feel like I've got my best friend because
:24:10. > :24:12.you know, she has always encouraged me to be myself
:24:13. > :24:17.and that's been the only expectation, and to be honest.
:24:18. > :24:27.I suppose I've always insisted on being myself
:24:28. > :24:34.and Leng has had to do that as well.
:24:35. > :24:43.I like the nuts and bolts, they look quite brutal, bit kinky.
:24:44. > :24:51.I mean, obviously there is lots of labia.
:24:52. > :24:54.It is quite ambiguous cos although, yes, it's labia but also
:24:55. > :25:10.I love the fact that underneath the first layer it's not,
:25:11. > :25:20.Well, it really should really be my chat up line,
:25:21. > :25:28.I'd always known since I was small that I definitely
:25:29. > :25:31.was male, but I wasn't born that way, so wearing female clothing just
:25:32. > :25:43.Yes, you came in from school wearing a little
:25:44. > :25:45.yellow mini skirt and T-shirt and long hair and it looked fabulous
:25:46. > :25:48.and he came in from school pulling at this skirt saying,
:25:49. > :25:50."I don't ever want to wear a skirt again",
:25:51. > :25:53.and I said, "Well, you don't have to wear a skirt again,
:25:54. > :25:55.darling", cos there was obviously something behind this.
:25:56. > :25:58.The thing is when you feel trapped and you feel your life
:25:59. > :26:01.isn't your own, you feel isolated, and it's a very scary feeling.
:26:02. > :26:03.And statistically a lot of trans people have had these feelings.
:26:04. > :26:06.Looking at it actually it does really hit a few personal
:26:07. > :26:11.I mean, usually when I tell people I am trans it's
:26:12. > :26:16.like usually great, but then it's like a reflex they can't
:26:17. > :26:18.help so it's like, "So have you had that
:26:19. > :26:24.straight at my groin area and, you know, when I first meet
:26:25. > :26:30.I don't go, "Oh, by the way, how big's yours?"
:26:31. > :26:33.The nice thing is now when I look in the mirror
:26:34. > :26:36.at myself I feel comfortable with what I look at cos it's taken
:26:37. > :26:40.a long time to look the way I do now, and that's from a lot of work
:26:41. > :26:43.but it's also from feeling proud and happy with who I am.
:26:44. > :26:45.I think since you've had your chest surgery you have
:26:46. > :26:50.I mean that is just one of the most amazing things,
:26:51. > :26:54.But sometimes I feel like a secret agent or a double
:26:55. > :26:57.agent almost, as I navigate the world because sometimes I'm read
:26:58. > :27:01.as too male for some spaces, or not read
:27:02. > :27:03.as male enough, and even now that can be challenging.
:27:04. > :27:08.because in their view you are different, that they feel
:27:09. > :27:13.they can just ask you anything quite boldly?
:27:14. > :27:15.Yeah, cos I realise then that people stop looking at me
:27:16. > :27:19.I feel like an exhibit, almost like that, cos first thing
:27:20. > :27:23.we said when we looked at it, we were like, "What is it"?
:27:24. > :27:26.And that actually happens to me in reverse.
:27:27. > :27:29.Suddenly I go from being Leng, being read as a male,
:27:30. > :27:40.It's interesting that you thought Venus fly trap.
:27:41. > :27:41.That was before we even understood it,
:27:42. > :27:46.I just thought that was a hardcore man machine.
:27:47. > :27:48.Well, the reason it's not hardcore man machine
:27:49. > :28:01.Don't worry, Son, we will talk about this in 12 years' time!
:28:02. > :28:28.I would not like to go for a burial at all. Cremation every time for me.
:28:29. > :28:38.I wouldn't have it in my house. I probably would. I like that. Weird,
:28:39. > :28:39.though. It is quite dizzying. I know what you mean. Go and look at
:28:40. > :28:55.something else. The weather is looking a little hit
:28:56. > :28:59.and miss across the UK. There will be a big temperature contrast, mild
:29:00. > :29:00.weather in the south and cold weather in the