0:00:06 > 0:00:10They say that for every four people walking the streets of this country,
0:00:10 > 0:00:14one of us suffers from mental health problems.
0:00:14 > 0:00:16That's right.
0:00:16 > 0:00:18One in four,
0:00:18 > 0:00:23to whom the world can seem a hostile and lonely place.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26But something remarkable has happened.
0:00:26 > 0:00:3020 years ago, mental illness was a taboo subject.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35Now, it's a multi-million pound industry dominating the media
0:00:35 > 0:00:40and selling out arts festivals, like this one at Southbank Centre,
0:00:40 > 0:00:42with its Tai Chi sessions,
0:00:42 > 0:00:44therapeutic colouring-in
0:00:44 > 0:00:46and countless mental health professionals
0:00:46 > 0:00:48with their wise words.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52Comedy, in particular, has always had an intimate relationship
0:00:52 > 0:00:55with mental health.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57OK, this is my new career in stand-up.
0:00:57 > 0:01:03A man goers to the doctor and says, "Doctor, doctor, can you help me?
0:01:03 > 0:01:05"I'm so miserable and depressed."
0:01:05 > 0:01:09And the doctor says, "Well, I can think of something
0:01:09 > 0:01:14"to cheer you up. Go to the park and go and see Bozo the Clown
0:01:14 > 0:01:17"and he'll cheer you up." And the man says,
0:01:17 > 0:01:20"But I AM Bozo the Clown."
0:01:20 > 0:01:21AUDIENCE LAUGHTER
0:01:21 > 0:01:23Is that it?
0:01:24 > 0:01:26She's killing herself!
0:01:29 > 0:01:34It's a well-worn cliche, "the tears of a clown".
0:01:34 > 0:01:36The sadness behind the laughter.
0:01:36 > 0:01:41So, for my Artsnight, I am talking to two brilliant comedians,
0:01:41 > 0:01:44both of them from America, the land of therapy,
0:01:44 > 0:01:47but both of them living and working here
0:01:47 > 0:01:52and both willing to talk about their battles to get, and stay, happy.
0:01:57 > 0:01:58Ruby Wax's career
0:01:58 > 0:02:02has spanned over 30 years.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04She was part of a new wave of female comedians,
0:02:04 > 0:02:10who held sway in the 1980s. She co-wrote and starred in hit shows
0:02:10 > 0:02:11Girls On Top
0:02:11 > 0:02:14- and Absolutely Fabulous. - My doctor says I should
0:02:14 > 0:02:16stop taking the pills,
0:02:16 > 0:02:18but that's what a man would say. What do they have to do?
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Let their belt out a couple of notches and join a golf club!
0:02:23 > 0:02:27Then, she invented a whole new genre of TV interviews,
0:02:27 > 0:02:30which shocked and delighted in equal measure.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33- Beautiful! - She does the funniest things!
0:02:33 > 0:02:36- Did you do it? - No, I didn't.
0:02:36 > 0:02:42Now, she is a best-selling author and has just finished a West End run
0:02:42 > 0:02:44of her new show.
0:02:44 > 0:02:48Ruby, I was really sorry when you stopped interviewing,
0:02:48 > 0:02:52cos I totally, genuinely believed that you were the best television
0:02:52 > 0:02:54interviewer ever.
0:02:54 > 0:02:56- Really?- Oh, yes.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59And you were so disarming,
0:02:59 > 0:03:03but also so astute. I mean, you weren't just
0:03:03 > 0:03:06being funny at their expense, were you? You were actually
0:03:06 > 0:03:08getting them to reveal things.
0:03:08 > 0:03:13- Do you proudly remember that period? - Well, Imelda is my favourite.
0:03:13 > 0:03:17A few weeks ago, I was interviewed and somebody says, "Mrs Marcos,
0:03:17 > 0:03:20"you are still on cloud nine, you are still dreaming
0:03:20 > 0:03:23"and fantasising. Actually, we think you are crazy.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27"Are you crazy, Mrs Marcos?" And my answer to them,
0:03:27 > 0:03:28I think I am.
0:03:28 > 0:03:32If you are interviewing somebody with, sort of, zero sense of humour,
0:03:32 > 0:03:36- like Madonna, possibly... - Donald Trump.- Oh, yeah. Interesting.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Yeah, yeah.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41- And he has no... You can't... - He has nothing.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44Well, I made him funny, cos I said he had one nose hair and then he
0:03:44 > 0:03:46winds it, winds it, winds it, winds it around his head.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49- But as a man...- Yeah. ..oh, my God!
0:03:49 > 0:03:52The arrogance and the self-belief.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55- You are so obnoxious! - I know, I know!
0:03:55 > 0:04:01She's a reporter for BBC. She's the world's most obnoxious reporter.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03You know this woman? Big reporter in England.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05She means nothing over here.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09So, that was a bad interview and he then said, I heard,
0:04:09 > 0:04:11- "If I ever see her again, I'll kill her."- Oh, right.
0:04:11 > 0:04:12Cos I said, "Screw you!"
0:04:12 > 0:04:16I always think that is the best compliment an interviewer can have.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20- How many have you gotten?- Two or three. It's quite good, isn't it?
0:04:20 > 0:04:24# I'm as frisky as a... #
0:04:24 > 0:04:29You'd never know it, but Ruby has always suffered from anxiety
0:04:29 > 0:04:30and depression.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35When the TV work dried up,
0:04:35 > 0:04:37she turned her energies to her mental health
0:04:37 > 0:04:43and discovered mindfulness, a form of highly-focused meditation
0:04:43 > 0:04:45that has taken off in recent years.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48The only reason I went into mindfulness, the only reason is,
0:04:48 > 0:04:52seven years ago, when my career did disappear, I was knocked out.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56I'm not going to complain. It's like being a leaf and it's winter -
0:04:56 > 0:04:58you fall off. Isn't that beautiful?
0:04:58 > 0:05:00- I made that up.- Yeah.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03I couldn't do it any more and then I got...
0:05:03 > 0:05:05Depression, I had since I was a kid.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09There is sometimes a trigger. You could have just won a BAFTA...
0:05:09 > 0:05:11- And felt...- Not that I did!
0:05:11 > 0:05:13..and still have it.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17I was always interested in psychology, so I thought,
0:05:17 > 0:05:20"I'm going to research this." I started looking in science journals.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23So, what had the best evidence was cognitive and mindfulness
0:05:23 > 0:05:25- and I had never heard of them.- Yeah.
0:05:25 > 0:05:27So, I found one of the founders of it.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29He was the professor at Oxford.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32I said, "Don't give me the fluffy stuff. Just tell me what is
0:05:32 > 0:05:35"going on in the meat. I want to know, if you do this,
0:05:35 > 0:05:39"cos I haven't got time, sweetheart, what would happen in my brain?"
0:05:39 > 0:05:42He said, "You have to get into Oxford and get your Masters."
0:05:42 > 0:05:46So, I did. My dissertation became the book, (except with comedy!),
0:05:46 > 0:05:49and I said, "Me learning about neuro-sciences was like Peppa Pig
0:05:49 > 0:05:52- "learning about quantum physics." - Yeah.
0:05:52 > 0:05:56So, this show and the book is really about how we think our brains work,
0:05:56 > 0:06:00what evolution did, you know... how our brains cram up,
0:06:00 > 0:06:04how envy eats away at us. But I am always using comedy,
0:06:04 > 0:06:05otherwise, I'm whining.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Do you know, if you're not accepted on Facebook,
0:06:07 > 0:06:11it actually activates exactly the same part
0:06:11 > 0:06:13of your brain as real physical pain.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16So, if you don't get a lot of Likes...
0:06:17 > 0:06:18Same thing.
0:06:18 > 0:06:22Then, you get even more critical thoughts - "Oh, my God,
0:06:22 > 0:06:25"nobody likes me! I'm too fat to wear tights!"
0:06:25 > 0:06:26LAUGHTER
0:06:26 > 0:06:30Mindfulness asks you to focus on your breathing
0:06:30 > 0:06:32or your physical senses,
0:06:32 > 0:06:35to give your mind a break from the chaos.
0:06:35 > 0:06:38But isn't it just the latest craze
0:06:38 > 0:06:41in a long line of self-help therapies?
0:06:41 > 0:06:45I think I first interviewed you, I mean, a million years ago
0:06:45 > 0:06:48and I remember you raving on about your flotation tank.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51- Do you remember your flotation tank? - I do.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55I used to use therapy, alternative ones, for AbFab,
0:06:55 > 0:06:58so you do see the float tank in it. That's my float tank.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01- Oh, really?- And all these things are great for comedy.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05Yes, they are good. I had to have this one imported from LA.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08- No-one over here has got one. - I heard Fergie had one.
0:07:10 > 0:07:11No!
0:07:11 > 0:07:14God, I'll have to get rid of it now!
0:07:17 > 0:07:21I slightly suspect that you are always chasing the latest fashion
0:07:21 > 0:07:23and it happens to be mindfulness now
0:07:23 > 0:07:25and it happened to be flotation tanks.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28In my day, it would have been transcendental meditation,
0:07:28 > 0:07:32which is quite similar to your thing. Or yogic flying.
0:07:32 > 0:07:34- Did you ever do yogic flying? - No, I didn't.
0:07:34 > 0:07:39- Did you, Lynn?- No! - I see you doing it!- No!
0:07:39 > 0:07:43- I see you floating above this. - Well, all the things you say about
0:07:43 > 0:07:47mindfulness - take five minutes here and think - it's smoking to me.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50You know, I have a cigarette and all these things are achieved.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54Well, you might be quite, you know, present with your cigarette.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56- Yeah, I am, yeah. - Well, there you go.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59It's done wonders for you, the smoking! Wonders!
0:07:59 > 0:08:03Well, but I mean, I am just saying, that a lot of things that you
0:08:03 > 0:08:06claim that you have to do, this mindfulness thing for...
0:08:06 > 0:08:10- I don't...- ..are just to do with sitting down for five minutes
0:08:10 > 0:08:12and collecting your thoughts, really.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15Well, I don't think that's what it is. If it looks like that,
0:08:15 > 0:08:19I can't... You know, you go and see a shrink, you could say that is
0:08:19 > 0:08:22- just two people sitting on a chair. - Yeah, I see what you mean.- Yeah.
0:08:22 > 0:08:27I think I have a real practical idea of what's crap and what might be
0:08:27 > 0:08:31the real thing. I have a really good...marker.
0:08:31 > 0:08:35So, I switched my career three years ago, cos I thought,
0:08:35 > 0:08:37- "Well, at least I can smell science."- Yeah.
0:08:37 > 0:08:42There is the empirical research. Because if I don't taste it,
0:08:42 > 0:08:43I don't believe in it.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46Now, cortisol is good in small doses,
0:08:46 > 0:08:50but if you leave it on too long, it won't just stress you out,
0:08:50 > 0:08:51it will kill you.
0:08:51 > 0:08:57It contributes to certain cancers, diabetes 2, heart disease,
0:08:57 > 0:08:59infertility, obesity and premature ageing.
0:08:59 > 0:09:01All this, you can give yourself.
0:09:01 > 0:09:02LAUGHTER
0:09:02 > 0:09:08It's slightly sounds from your book as though, what you suffered from
0:09:08 > 0:09:11for years was this over-active, racing mind.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14It meant you couldn't sleep, you were always worried.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18When you are really ill, you can't move, but, yeah, before that,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21you have a racing mind. Before it. Eventually, you have no mind at all.
0:09:21 > 0:09:25But on the way down, I started showing up at events,
0:09:25 > 0:09:31expecting to show the world, I'm perfectly fine and look how popular!
0:09:31 > 0:09:34So, I ended up at a charity for Save the Puffin
0:09:34 > 0:09:38and there was a Scottish woman in a, kind of, cathair sweater, saying,
0:09:38 > 0:09:41"It was so difficult for the puffins to find a rock to land on,
0:09:41 > 0:09:45"because of the high winds." That's when I knew I was crazy.
0:09:45 > 0:09:46LYNN LAUGHS
0:09:46 > 0:09:48I wanted to say, "Just shoot the puffins.
0:09:48 > 0:09:50"This is madness."
0:09:50 > 0:09:53But it is the joke version. I really did those things,
0:09:53 > 0:09:56- but when you have depression, there is nobody home, you know?- Yeah.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58There is no pen. You can't write anything.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02But I can't write a book saying, "I was a blank space" for 500 pages.
0:10:02 > 0:10:06- No.- So, I did the comedy, knowing that, underneath,
0:10:06 > 0:10:08there is a sickness.
0:10:08 > 0:10:13Then we have vasopressin. This makes men less aggressive
0:10:13 > 0:10:16and turns them into loving, faithful creatures,
0:10:16 > 0:10:21who write Valentine's Day cards. We should sprinkle vasopressin
0:10:21 > 0:10:22in their food.
0:10:22 > 0:10:23LAUGHTER
0:10:23 > 0:10:25But one of my favourites is adrenaline.
0:10:25 > 0:10:27Oh, yeah, I love that one.
0:10:27 > 0:10:31You say in your book that you like being late cos you like that
0:10:31 > 0:10:33adrenaline rush of, sort of,
0:10:33 > 0:10:36getting in a panic and when you already knew that
0:10:36 > 0:10:39you were supposed to be there at five o'clock
0:10:39 > 0:10:42- and it was five o'clock... - You're killing my comedy, Lynn.
0:10:42 > 0:10:43You're killing my comedy.
0:10:43 > 0:10:45- I'm sorry!- I was talking about adrenaline and I said,
0:10:45 > 0:10:48"Sometimes, I call a taxi to take me to the airport...
0:10:48 > 0:10:52and when it gets to my house, then I start packing.
0:10:52 > 0:10:56LAUGHTER
0:10:56 > 0:10:58That's it!
0:10:58 > 0:11:01'It doesn't mean I do it all the time. I'm filling a book'
0:11:01 > 0:11:05- with comedy lines.- Oh, really? What, you're denying everything?
0:11:05 > 0:11:07- It's all lies.- No, I do do it, but when you do comedy,
0:11:07 > 0:11:08- you got to bump it up. - Yeah, OK.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10Otherwise, what are you looking at?
0:11:10 > 0:11:15I get into my car and I am driving the wrong way down a one-way street
0:11:15 > 0:11:17and the devil voices in my head are now coming out of my mouth
0:11:17 > 0:11:20and I am going, "Fuck you!"
0:11:21 > 0:11:24"Fuck you, you fuckhead!
0:11:24 > 0:11:27"Fuck you! Your mother looks like a watermelon!"
0:11:28 > 0:11:31"I hope they tear her eyebrows off and then they throw 'em out
0:11:31 > 0:11:34"of a helicopter!" I don't know what I'm talking about.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38- I'm sorry.- I can totally see that
0:11:38 > 0:11:44mindfulness is helpful for this, sort of, racing, anxious brain,
0:11:44 > 0:11:48but it wouldn't necessarily help, sort of, deep, flat...
0:11:48 > 0:11:51- The, sort of, flat of depression, would it?- No.- No.
0:11:51 > 0:11:53So, it's not full, then?
0:11:53 > 0:11:58If you are in the, you know, down there, at the equivalent of a log,
0:11:58 > 0:12:01with very little personality, you know, people say,
0:12:01 > 0:12:04"Get up and jog!" or you should eat nutritiously,
0:12:04 > 0:12:08- tell them to go to hell, because there is no brain.- Yes.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12So, mindfulness is when you know, again, if the drugs worked,
0:12:12 > 0:12:15forget everything else, but when those drugs start to lift
0:12:15 > 0:12:19- you up, then you had better do some mindfulness exercise.- Yeah.
0:12:19 > 0:12:21Otherwise, it is going to slam you down again.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25The fans who flock to her shows
0:12:25 > 0:12:28are also treated to an intimate
0:12:28 > 0:12:30question-and-answer session, after the interval.
0:12:32 > 0:12:37When I came to the show, it seems to me an odd...an odd mix,
0:12:37 > 0:12:40because, basically, it is very funny in the first half,
0:12:40 > 0:12:43then you take questions from the audience, which I imagine
0:12:43 > 0:12:45could be quite a nervous moment.
0:12:45 > 0:12:50But also, I had a feeling of almost like a revivalist meeting,
0:12:50 > 0:12:56the sort of waves of love and gratitude and everything and people
0:12:56 > 0:13:00saying that you had been their inspiration and they don't know
0:13:00 > 0:13:03where they would be without you and they might have committed suicide
0:13:03 > 0:13:07without you. I mean, that is quite a heavy responsibility,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10- do you not feel?- Well, I didn't... I wasn't expecting that.
0:13:10 > 0:13:14Seven years ago, people would not stand up. This was taboo.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18I don't ask them to reveal anything, cos it could just be
0:13:18 > 0:13:21- a discussion about the weather. - Yeah.- I hope not.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23But now, I have to shut people up.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27It's, sort of, an awkward, I think, sort of,
0:13:27 > 0:13:31compromise between a comedy show, where we are invited...
0:13:31 > 0:13:34Were you uncomfortable? I bet you were.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37- I was in the questions, yeah. - I bet you were.
0:13:37 > 0:13:42- That's my English reticence... - I bet that sphincter was tight!
0:13:43 > 0:13:47One thing that really struck me in your book, actually was that
0:13:47 > 0:13:52you said, very sweetly, that your children have grown up OK.
0:13:52 > 0:13:57And I thought, "Well, she can't be as bad as she makes her out...
0:13:57 > 0:14:02"as she makes herself out", because, if your children are OK,
0:14:02 > 0:14:05basically, that means you did OK, didn't it?
0:14:05 > 0:14:10- Well, I selected my husband...- Yes. - ..cos I knew he had the right genes,
0:14:10 > 0:14:14so on my way to the registry desk, I told him three things.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17I told him, one, how old I really was.
0:14:17 > 0:14:20Two, that I had been married a couple of times before.
0:14:20 > 0:14:21And, three, I was mentally ill!
0:14:21 > 0:14:25So, I knew he would probably breed some pretty successful children.
0:14:25 > 0:14:29Whereas, my family, all the way back... But on the other hand,
0:14:29 > 0:14:33it's not a guarantee because if my mum had five kids,
0:14:33 > 0:14:36- we wouldn't all have it.- Yeah. - So, it's nature and nurture.
0:14:36 > 0:14:40- You don't know.- Yeah, yeah. I probably shouldn't...
0:14:40 > 0:14:44I'll make a million enemies by saying this, it does strike me
0:14:44 > 0:14:48that a component of depression is self-obsession, do you think?
0:14:48 > 0:14:52- Well, it's exactly like a physical disease.- Yeah.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55- And nothing goes with it. It is just something broke.- Yeah.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59Something broke. They lost... They lost chemicals, they got chemicals.
0:14:59 > 0:15:00Nobody knows the answer.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03It's like I always say, it's saying to somebody with Alzheimer's,
0:15:03 > 0:15:06"Come on, snap out of it! You know where you parked your car."
0:15:06 > 0:15:11- Yeah, yeah. Not very helpful. - It's the same thing, yeah.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14Well, then, I think the answer is, I'm not very helpful.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18- On the other hand...- I'm not going to you when I have depression.
0:15:18 > 0:15:19I'm not coming for the dinner party.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22No, I'm not the right person, definitely.
0:15:22 > 0:15:27"Lynn, hi. I'm really getting depressed. Can I come over?"
0:15:27 > 0:15:28Enough, already!
0:15:28 > 0:15:30LAUGHTER
0:15:30 > 0:15:33The other thing is, I've had some friends
0:15:33 > 0:15:37who have spent almost 50 years phoning me up in tears,
0:15:37 > 0:15:39saying they're so depressed
0:15:39 > 0:15:41and then quite recently,
0:15:41 > 0:15:44they've had terrible things like serious cancer,
0:15:44 > 0:15:47or serious bowel problems.
0:15:47 > 0:15:53They are far more stoical with, as it were, physical illness than I am.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55The depression is worse.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59The cancer, I want to live, and the depression, I want to die.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02So, I can see where it's almost...
0:16:02 > 0:16:04At least they know it's cancer.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08With depression, you're gone. So, I get it.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11I get that cancer would be easier to bear.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15Do you seriously think that this mindfulness regime
0:16:15 > 0:16:20will keep you on the rails for the rest of your life?
0:16:20 > 0:16:22You know, nothing is 100%,
0:16:22 > 0:16:26unless you're some fantasist that thinks there is the elixir.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28I have this disease.
0:16:28 > 0:16:30If you have it more than three times,
0:16:30 > 0:16:32chances are pretty good you're going to get it.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34- Oh, OK.- Yeah, I'm waiting.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36The clock is ticking.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39Probably when this interview is over, I ask you for help...
0:16:39 > 0:16:40LAUGHTER
0:16:40 > 0:16:44- I'm the wrong person! - I know you are.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47- If I need therapy... - You won't, you won't.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51And if you need it, don't come to me.
0:16:51 > 0:16:53You interview me again and I could interview you,
0:16:53 > 0:16:55if I ever get a fucking show again.
0:16:55 > 0:16:57LAUGHTER
0:16:59 > 0:17:03'Stand-up comedian Rob Delaney is best known here
0:17:03 > 0:17:08'for co-writing and starring in Channel 4's Catastrophe.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11'Set in contemporary London,
0:17:11 > 0:17:15'it's a brilliantly funny and filthy comedy of manners.'
0:17:15 > 0:17:16You let me put my penis in your mouth,
0:17:16 > 0:17:19but you won't let me put my T-shirts in your drawer?
0:17:19 > 0:17:22- SHE LAUGHS - Please don't rush me, Rob!
0:17:22 > 0:17:27'And this month, he was a speaker at Southbank's Changing Minds Festival.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31'Rob was a jobbing actor with an alcohol problem.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34'Then, a near-fatal car crash when drunk at the wheel
0:17:34 > 0:17:38turned out to be a catalyst, in more ways than one.'
0:17:38 > 0:17:41The next year after you came off alcohol,
0:17:41 > 0:17:44- you had a really, really bad depressive breakdown.- I did, yeah.
0:17:44 > 0:17:48And you also said, very interestingly, that that gave you
0:17:48 > 0:17:52a sort of fearlessness that enabled you to do comedy, is that right?
0:17:52 > 0:17:56- That is true.- That nothing so bad could happen?- That is true.
0:17:56 > 0:18:02I started to do comedy not too long after I got sober.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05After I had my last surgeries from the car accident and stuff,
0:18:05 > 0:18:09then I started to do comedy, then I got walloped by depression,
0:18:09 > 0:18:14so, yeah, it's fair to say that comedy very heartily pursued
0:18:14 > 0:18:17and depression started around the same time.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21So, let that be a warning.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24So, does doing comedy sort of cheer you out of your depression?
0:18:24 > 0:18:26Yes, it does.
0:18:26 > 0:18:30And I've had two very severe depressive episodes
0:18:30 > 0:18:32and even when I was in the throes of that,
0:18:32 > 0:18:34getting on stage still felt good
0:18:34 > 0:18:39and definitely gave me powerful serotonin blasts, as it were.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43- Does it really?- Yeah. - Some of your stand-up is filthy...
0:18:43 > 0:18:45Some of it is, yeah.
0:18:45 > 0:18:49There's a really funny ongoing bit about anal sex
0:18:49 > 0:18:54and how nervous you are of how reluctant you are to approach it.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57So, I now know that there are people in this world
0:18:57 > 0:18:59who don't want a hard penis
0:18:59 > 0:19:01thrusting in and out of their asshole
0:19:01 > 0:19:02and I'm among them.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04I am one of those people.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06So that's why, even if it's my birthday,
0:19:06 > 0:19:09- I'm not going to be like, "Hey, baby..." - HE RASPBERRIES
0:19:09 > 0:19:11That's just...no.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13Unless that's your thing -
0:19:13 > 0:19:16if you like being fucked in the butt, I'll fuck your butt.
0:19:16 > 0:19:17I'm not a monster.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21But you decide that -
0:19:21 > 0:19:24you're the boss of what goes in and out of your butthole.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29I think that filthy humour is wonderful
0:19:29 > 0:19:33and I no longer feel embarrassed about it or apologise,
0:19:33 > 0:19:37because I think that stand-up about the body and its functions
0:19:37 > 0:19:42and how it betrays us and how we try to harness it and control it
0:19:42 > 0:19:47is such a great shorthand for our other, more complex emotions.
0:19:47 > 0:19:49If you talk about things in a way
0:19:49 > 0:19:54that both men and women can appreciate and just relax together,
0:19:54 > 0:19:58I think it's a nice thing to do.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00Well, yeah, because I noticed that
0:20:00 > 0:20:03lots of women are laughing as much as the men
0:20:03 > 0:20:05and often, male stand-ups talking about sex
0:20:05 > 0:20:08is rather cringe-making, if you're a woman.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11- It can be, yeah.- It's often quite aggressive, isn't it?
0:20:11 > 0:20:12To that, I will say,
0:20:12 > 0:20:15I want to be the best comedian that I can possibly be
0:20:15 > 0:20:20so shame on me if I'm not doing comedy for women and for men.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23If I make a group of men laugh, but not women,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26that wasn't funny enough. And that's not...
0:20:26 > 0:20:29Although yes, I'm a feminist, that's not a feminist approach.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31It doesn't come from a feminist place,
0:20:31 > 0:20:33it comes from a utilitarian place.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37I want the loudest laughs because I'm a laugh junkie
0:20:37 > 0:20:38and goddammit,
0:20:38 > 0:20:43I'd better be extruding them from the women as well or go home.
0:20:43 > 0:20:48Because in Catastrophe as well, you manage a very rare thing,
0:20:48 > 0:20:54which is being both sexy and a feminist new man.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57The belief is that men who change nappies
0:20:57 > 0:21:00aren't actually any good in bed.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03Women raise kids on their own all the time,
0:21:03 > 0:21:07but what about when you want to take a shit or get a haircut?
0:21:07 > 0:21:11And independent of that, can you, for a second, accept the fact
0:21:11 > 0:21:15that I like you and want to be with you, you fucking idiot?
0:21:15 > 0:21:19When you had your terrible car crash, you were given the choice,
0:21:19 > 0:21:24I believe, of either a custodial sentence or going to rehab.
0:21:24 > 0:21:29So, obviously, the American law recognises
0:21:29 > 0:21:35that alcoholism is a psychiatric illness that needs treatment.
0:21:35 > 0:21:39- And that was your salvation, really, wasn't it?- Oh, absolutely.
0:21:39 > 0:21:43Yes, they gave me an option - I could go to more jail,
0:21:43 > 0:21:46or, for a longer period of time,
0:21:46 > 0:21:49I could go stay in a psychiatric hospital.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51And I knew that I needed that.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54I wanted real downtime,
0:21:54 > 0:21:57where I could begin to address the stuff
0:21:57 > 0:22:01that had made me want to drink that much for that long.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05You're quite keen on talking about mental health issues, aren't you?
0:22:05 > 0:22:09- Did you ever actually feel suicidal? - Yes, yeah.
0:22:09 > 0:22:10And what stopped you?
0:22:10 > 0:22:12What stopped me?
0:22:12 > 0:22:14You know, this might sound silly,
0:22:14 > 0:22:19but I sort of took myself out of the driver's seat.
0:22:19 > 0:22:20I said, you know what?
0:22:20 > 0:22:25I've got a big ego, I've got a big frontal lobe,
0:22:25 > 0:22:32I've got all that crap that people identify as being smart,
0:22:32 > 0:22:34so I knew I had to give that a rest,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37because I could intellectualise reasons
0:22:37 > 0:22:39why I should blow my brains out.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43But I knew that that wasn't the best part of me,
0:22:43 > 0:22:46so I knew it just had to be paused,
0:22:46 > 0:22:48so I wasn't going to listen to it for a while.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52Who I would listen to are family members who loved me,
0:22:52 > 0:22:54and I would listen to friends,
0:22:54 > 0:22:58and I'd listen to people who'd been through alcoholism and depression
0:22:58 > 0:23:01and I would imagine myself asking them,
0:23:01 > 0:23:03"Do you think I should kill myself?"
0:23:03 > 0:23:06And them being like, "No, no, I don't think so."
0:23:06 > 0:23:09Or I thought, if they were feeling what I'm feeling,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11and they said, "Should I kill myself?" What would I say?
0:23:11 > 0:23:13I wouldn't be like, "Yeah, probably."
0:23:13 > 0:23:15I would say "No, you moron."
0:23:15 > 0:23:19You said that libido is the litmus test of mental health.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23If you don't want to wank, then you know you're depressed.
0:23:23 > 0:23:25Yeah, I'd say that's one of them.
0:23:25 > 0:23:31For me, my first depression happened when I was 25, 26 and I knew...
0:23:31 > 0:23:35When you're a 25 or 26-year-old guy, you should be masturbating...
0:23:35 > 0:23:37almost the whole time.
0:23:37 > 0:23:42And if you're not, then that's sort of the canary in the coal mine.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44I would say, probably the first scary thing
0:23:44 > 0:23:47is sleep going out the window,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50cos that's always distressing
0:23:50 > 0:23:52and then realising, "Wow, I don't want to wank?"
0:23:52 > 0:23:56That's a big red flag.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59And then I think once food, the desire to eat goes,
0:23:59 > 0:24:02then there is the trifactor - food, sleep, wanking -
0:24:02 > 0:24:04it's already too late.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06It's not already too late to get help,
0:24:06 > 0:24:10but then you're firmly entrenched in some sort of episode.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14You don't really have any comedy routines about depression, do you?
0:24:14 > 0:24:17- No, not yet.- It might happen?
0:24:17 > 0:24:19It could happen.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22But it hasn't yet, and I wouldn't force it.
0:24:22 > 0:24:26For the moment, I'm comfortable keeping them separate, you know?
0:24:26 > 0:24:33I hope that my stand-up has some alchemical properties,
0:24:33 > 0:24:38which is to say, I hope that it can take pain and stress and difficulty
0:24:38 > 0:24:41and turn it into laughter and happiness and all that.
0:24:41 > 0:24:44But nothing explicitly, like,
0:24:44 > 0:24:46let's take a look at this depressed guy
0:24:46 > 0:24:49and live through some weird narrative structure.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52"Now he's happy - and here's how we did it!"
0:24:52 > 0:24:54That, to me, would be a little forced.
0:24:55 > 0:24:56Hey, let me get yours.
0:24:56 > 0:25:00It'll make me feel better about being in line for just a Coke.
0:25:00 > 0:25:01You don't drink?
0:25:01 > 0:25:03No, I quit a few years ago,
0:25:03 > 0:25:06after I shit my pants at my sister's wedding.
0:25:06 > 0:25:07SHE LAUGHS
0:25:07 > 0:25:09In Catastrophe,
0:25:09 > 0:25:14you are a man called Rob who is a recovering alcoholic, which is you.
0:25:14 > 0:25:17So, did you decide right from the outset
0:25:17 > 0:25:20that it was going to be you, more or less?
0:25:20 > 0:25:25No, in fact. The fact that my character is sober...
0:25:25 > 0:25:29Sharon Horgan, my writing partner and partner in the show -
0:25:29 > 0:25:32she thought it would be a good idea to have him
0:25:32 > 0:25:35retain that actual fact from my life.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37In the second series of Catastrophe,
0:25:37 > 0:25:41there's some very funny scenes with your character's friend Dave,
0:25:41 > 0:25:44who is sort of snorting cocaine
0:25:44 > 0:25:47and generally misbehaving like mad.
0:25:47 > 0:25:51Was it fun, writing that? I mean, did you feel nostalgic?
0:25:51 > 0:25:54Yes, it was very fun, writing that.
0:25:55 > 0:25:56But then, we had to shoot it
0:25:56 > 0:25:59and I found some of it quite distressing.
0:25:59 > 0:26:01Jesus, Dave...
0:26:03 > 0:26:05Dave?
0:26:05 > 0:26:07Wake up, man.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11Wake the fuck up!
0:26:13 > 0:26:16'There's one scene where I discover him in rough shape
0:26:16 > 0:26:18'after an evening of excess.'
0:26:18 > 0:26:21- Passed out on the...? - Yes, he's passed out on his bed.
0:26:21 > 0:26:23And I hated seeing that.
0:26:23 > 0:26:25Are you breathing?
0:26:25 > 0:26:30Are you breathing, you fucking 45-year-old heroin partier?
0:26:30 > 0:26:33Seeing him in trouble - that was just too much for me.
0:26:39 > 0:26:42And it was the one time in the two series' shooting
0:26:42 > 0:26:44that I actually cried.
0:26:45 > 0:26:46ROB CRIES
0:26:46 > 0:26:50I have an OD. My friend OD'd.
0:26:51 > 0:26:53Do you need to make people laugh?
0:26:53 > 0:26:55I mean, if you're going to a dinner party,
0:26:55 > 0:26:58do you feel it's your job to amuse people?
0:26:58 > 0:27:00No.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03I think one fantastic thing about me
0:27:03 > 0:27:08is that I don't need to, when I'm not on stage,
0:27:08 > 0:27:10be the clown.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14I find comedians who are that way to be tiresome.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16You know? Relax.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18Cos other civilians are funny, you know?
0:27:18 > 0:27:21And that's one thing I love about living in the UK,
0:27:21 > 0:27:24is that your average civilian is funnier
0:27:24 > 0:27:26than your average American civilian.
0:27:26 > 0:27:30I would rather just hang out at a dinner party and be amused,
0:27:30 > 0:27:33or at least let other people talk.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35Yes.
0:27:35 > 0:27:40You said that nothing comes close to the thrill of doing stand-up
0:27:40 > 0:27:44and that you'd fear for your own survival without it.
0:27:44 > 0:27:48- Would you actually fear for your sanity without it?- Um...
0:27:48 > 0:27:52I must make people laugh.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56That's not a good thing, that's just a compulsion.
0:27:56 > 0:28:00So, stand-up is the easiest, fastest
0:28:00 > 0:28:03and most immediately gratifying way to do it.
0:28:03 > 0:28:07Also, making television is wonderfully gratifying,
0:28:07 > 0:28:10so as long as I'm engaging in one, I'm OK.
0:28:10 > 0:28:12Well, thank you very much.
0:28:12 > 0:28:16- Will you sign my book? - With pleasure.- Lynn. L-Y-N-N.
0:28:16 > 0:28:18MUSIC: Don't Stop Me Now by Queen
0:28:18 > 0:28:22So, that's about it for my edition of Artsnight.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27Last year, a Dutch neuroscientist worked out a mathematical formula
0:28:27 > 0:28:31to decide the most feel-good pop song of all time.
0:28:31 > 0:28:35So, here it is, accompanied by a bit of therapeutic Tai Chi
0:28:35 > 0:28:38from the Changing Minds Festival.
0:28:38 > 0:28:40Enjoy.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44# Oh, burning through the sky, yeah
0:28:44 > 0:28:49# 200 degrees, that's why they call me Mr Fahrenheit
0:28:49 > 0:28:51# I'm travelling at the speed of light
0:28:51 > 0:28:55# I wanna make a supersonic man out of you
0:28:55 > 0:28:57# Don't stop me now
0:28:57 > 0:29:01# I'm having such a good time I'm having a ball
0:29:01 > 0:29:03# Don't stop me now
0:29:03 > 0:29:08# If you wanna have a good time Just give me a call
0:29:08 > 0:29:10- # Don't stop me now - Cos I'm having a good time
0:29:10 > 0:29:14- # Don't stop me now - Yes, I'm having a good time
0:29:14 > 0:29:18# I don't wanna stop at all. #