0:00:09 > 0:00:11'The relationship between truth and fiction
0:00:11 > 0:00:13'has always been a blurred one.
0:00:14 > 0:00:18'The Nobel laureate Doris Lessing once wrote that...
0:00:18 > 0:00:21'"There is no doubt fiction makes a better job of the truth."
0:00:24 > 0:00:28'I've been publishing crime novels now for nearly 30 years.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31'And I've walked the fine line between making things up
0:00:31 > 0:00:33'and staying real many times.'
0:00:35 > 0:00:38'For me, the very act of imagining has also been
0:00:38 > 0:00:40'a powerful way of accessing the truth.'
0:00:43 > 0:00:46The inspiration for my books often comes from the world around me.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49Writers have always been engaged with the societies
0:00:49 > 0:00:51that they live in, and I think it's exciting
0:00:51 > 0:00:53to be able to address current affairs
0:00:53 > 0:00:56and important issues in the books that I write.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03In Splinter The Silence I looked into internet trolling and bullying.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07In The Skeleton Road I revisited the Balkan Wars
0:01:07 > 0:01:10of the 1990s with the benefit of hindsight.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16But I've always been wary of plundering real cases for material,
0:01:16 > 0:01:18for fear of bringing more pain to people
0:01:18 > 0:01:20who have already suffered enough.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25'In my Artsnight, I'm going to delve deeper into this complex
0:01:25 > 0:01:29'relationship between truth and fiction across a number of areas.'
0:01:31 > 0:01:35'I'm going to meet authors who set their stories in the future
0:01:35 > 0:01:38'but still deal with current events...
0:01:38 > 0:01:42'speak to video games developers who have created fascinating games
0:01:42 > 0:01:46'on the highly topical subjects of immigration and drone warfare...
0:01:48 > 0:01:51'..and discuss the recent explosion of true crime stories
0:01:51 > 0:01:54'on our TV screens with one of our foremost documentary makers.'
0:02:04 > 0:02:07'A few years ago I was totally sucked in
0:02:07 > 0:02:10'by a remake of an old American science-fiction series.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14'Battle Star Galactica became essential viewing in my house.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17'Many critics viewed it as THE most powerful allegory
0:02:17 > 0:02:19'on Bush's War On Terror.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26'It said things via entertainment
0:02:26 > 0:02:29'that a lot of Americans didn't want to hear in the news media...
0:02:31 > 0:02:35'..and featured a group of religious fundamentalist cyborgs,
0:02:35 > 0:02:38'the Cylons, which most people read as representing Al-Qaeda.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45'One storyline showed prisoner torture,
0:02:45 > 0:02:49'which bore striking parallels to what was actually happening in Iraq
0:02:49 > 0:02:50'at Abu Ghraib prison.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54'Critics are often very sniffy about science-fiction,
0:02:54 > 0:02:57'but watching Battle Star Galactica reminded me
0:02:57 > 0:03:00'of the power it can exercise to make us examine how we behave
0:03:00 > 0:03:04'and the way we often fail to hold our leaders to account.'
0:03:04 > 0:03:06I apologise for what you've been through.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08'I've always enjoyed reading speculative fiction
0:03:08 > 0:03:10'which does just this.'
0:03:10 > 0:03:11Do it.
0:03:11 > 0:03:16As a teenager, I devoured Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, John Wyndham.
0:03:16 > 0:03:21I'm interested, both as a reader and a writer, in character,
0:03:21 > 0:03:23especially character under pressure.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27And with stuff like this, you can set situations up,
0:03:27 > 0:03:29light the blue touchpaper, stand well clear
0:03:29 > 0:03:32and watch what happens.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36Think - Brave New World, Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40These books stand apart from the world we inhabit,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43but they also powerfully critique the status quo.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48'Norwich-based sci-fi writer Richard K Morgan's books
0:03:48 > 0:03:52'are generally set in future dystopian worlds.'
0:03:52 > 0:03:56His novel Altered Carbon, where human personalities can be stored
0:03:56 > 0:03:58digitally and downloaded into new bodies,
0:03:58 > 0:04:03is currently being turned into ten-part series for Netflix.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05More and more people are turning to science-fiction
0:04:05 > 0:04:08for their reading material. Why do you think this is?
0:04:08 > 0:04:11I think largely it's because we're living in
0:04:11 > 0:04:14science-fictional times. I think if you look at the technology
0:04:14 > 0:04:15that we've all got our hands on...
0:04:15 > 0:04:17I mean, smartphones, something like that...
0:04:17 > 0:04:20These are things that even about five or ten years ago would
0:04:20 > 0:04:24have seemed science-fictional and they're now just part and parcel of day-to-day existence.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26So I think that there's an understanding
0:04:26 > 0:04:29at some level among people that to be relevant
0:04:29 > 0:04:32you really have got to, if not be writing and reading science-fiction,
0:04:32 > 0:04:36at least seeing things through a science-fictional-inflected lens.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38There's always been a thread in science-fiction where
0:04:38 > 0:04:42writers have dealt with subjects that have close parallels in real life.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45Do you think that's happening more these days within the genre?
0:04:45 > 0:04:48I think it's clearer than it used to be
0:04:48 > 0:04:51because I think, to be honest, all science-fiction really is about...
0:04:51 > 0:04:53It's not really about the future, it's about now.
0:04:53 > 0:04:55That's a bit of a truism.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58Generally speaking, taking again William Gibson
0:04:58 > 0:05:01and the cyberpunk movement, that was ostensibly about futures
0:05:01 > 0:05:03that are maybe 100, 150 years away.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07But actually he was dealing with the rise of corporations as dominant,
0:05:07 > 0:05:10the death of the nation state, the hollowing out of the middle-class.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12He was really...
0:05:12 > 0:05:16It was reportage on what he saw happening during the '80s.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19So that really... Although, technically science-fiction,
0:05:19 > 0:05:21what it was really about was that period we were going through.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23I think this is what fiction does generally though.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27It's not that it's better than truth it's that it's more focal than the truth.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30It allows you to zoom in on something in a way that the raw data
0:05:30 > 0:05:32of the actual world doesn't allow.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35What are the engines that drive your own work?
0:05:35 > 0:05:37What provokes you to imagination?
0:05:37 > 0:05:39Rage mostly!
0:05:39 > 0:05:41I know that one.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44- I start every day in a state of rage.- Exactly, yeah.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47It's just the, kind of... I think the sense that...
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Especially recently, there's a retreat from modernism.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53You know, the modern world has given us so much
0:05:53 > 0:05:56and there is a sense in which we just don't seem to want it.
0:05:56 > 0:06:01We want to crawl back into our hole and go on being violent
0:06:01 > 0:06:03and miserable and destructive.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05I find it deeply frustrating that there's this massive
0:06:05 > 0:06:10potential in the human race, in all human beings, I think,
0:06:10 > 0:06:13and it's constantly pissed away by, sort of...
0:06:13 > 0:06:16I don't know, toxic masculinity I would say is the prime mover of that.
0:06:16 > 0:06:18It's the way we all are to some extent.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21There's this deeply rooted frustration
0:06:21 > 0:06:24with our inability to grapple with what's going on
0:06:24 > 0:06:27and make a decent fist of it.
0:06:27 > 0:06:29My fellow Edinburgh-based author Ken MacLeod
0:06:29 > 0:06:33has been imagining all sorts of things for decades.
0:06:33 > 0:06:37'Many of his complex novels are explorations of future
0:06:37 > 0:06:40'outcomes of present-day events.'
0:06:40 > 0:06:43Why did you choose to address those interests through the medium
0:06:43 > 0:06:46of science-fiction, rather than another form of fiction?
0:06:46 > 0:06:47Why did I choose science-fiction?
0:06:47 > 0:06:50Unfortunately, science-fiction chose me.
0:06:50 > 0:06:52I find it difficult to write anything else.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54In my first book, which is set
0:06:54 > 0:06:57in a fairly fractured future Britain,
0:06:57 > 0:07:02there's me working through these problems that were raised by
0:07:02 > 0:07:07the Soviet collapse, the break-up of Yugoslavia, that kind of thing,
0:07:07 > 0:07:10and projecting these into a not too distant future.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13In fact, it's a future that seems to be coming closer.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16I think that's where the power of much science-fiction lies,
0:07:16 > 0:07:18that it starts off in the ordinary.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22It starts off in the context of either a world we recognise,
0:07:22 > 0:07:25or a set of human relationships that we recognise,
0:07:25 > 0:07:27and that's what makes it, I think, so powerful
0:07:27 > 0:07:31because we start from a place of recognition and then we move into
0:07:31 > 0:07:32a place beyond that.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37The trick which can be done with greater or less success is
0:07:37 > 0:07:42- bringing a ring of truth to alien situations...- M-hm.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46..and in some way finding ways in which they reflect back on,
0:07:46 > 0:07:49as you say, human relationship and human truths.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52And I think that's one of the great strengths of the genre,
0:07:52 > 0:07:56that you can pose those difficult ethical moral questions and
0:07:56 > 0:08:00you can create a landscape where they become very acute,
0:08:00 > 0:08:02rather than just part of the background noise.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04Absolutely, yes.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07The Execution Channel was one where I had this idea
0:08:07 > 0:08:13of an unofficial, an illegal, a secret television channel
0:08:13 > 0:08:17that showed nothing but executions,
0:08:17 > 0:08:22whether it was state executions or terrorist so-called executions.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26The question then becomes what effect does seeing these horrors
0:08:26 > 0:08:30have in driving and perpetuating the situations that give rise to them?
0:08:30 > 0:08:34So, for example, one chapter ends,
0:08:34 > 0:08:40"Susie Abudu, Nigeria, stoning, witchcraft.
0:08:40 > 0:08:46"Matthew Holst, Syria, decapitation, invasion."
0:08:47 > 0:08:52"Tariq Nazir, Scotland, burning, charge unknown."
0:08:54 > 0:08:57That's just horrifying and the awful thing about that
0:08:57 > 0:09:00is that you can imagine it... imagine it's reality.
0:09:00 > 0:09:05I think, you know, we are moving very much into a world
0:09:05 > 0:09:08where that kind of thing exists in a different form,
0:09:08 > 0:09:09but it's there.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12We're moving into a world that's beyond imagination...
0:09:12 > 0:09:13- Yes.- ..in some respects.- Yes.
0:09:16 > 0:09:20- VIDEO GAME:- Aye aye, captain! - HE CHUCKLES
0:09:25 > 0:09:26When I'm not glued to my laptop
0:09:26 > 0:09:29writing the next chapter of my latest book,
0:09:29 > 0:09:34I can often be found in front of another screen - my old PC or iPad.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36I've been an avid gamer for years now.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41I never really took to the big blockbuster games.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44They're too violent, kind of misogynist...
0:09:45 > 0:09:48..but mostly it's cos I'm rubbish at shooting.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55I like puzzles and narrative games,
0:09:55 > 0:09:57but I've always had a soft spot for Lara Croft.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00Games like these can worm their way inside your head.
0:10:08 > 0:10:10I just shot you twice!
0:10:12 > 0:10:14Lately, I've noticed a change in the kind of topics
0:10:14 > 0:10:18that keep weaving their way into games I'm playing.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20It's as if the gaming world is interacting
0:10:20 > 0:10:24with the contentious moral and political issues of the real world.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28Now, I'm not one of the younger generation of gamers,
0:10:28 > 0:10:29it's fair to say.
0:10:29 > 0:10:32Probably most younger gamers do not spend their mornings
0:10:32 > 0:10:34shouting at the Today programme
0:10:34 > 0:10:36and I'm guessing that the kind of issues
0:10:36 > 0:10:38that are coming up in the games might be issues
0:10:38 > 0:10:39that otherwise pass them by.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44Rhianna Pratchett, the daughter of the late Terry,
0:10:44 > 0:10:46is a story designer of video games.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51So, as a gamer, I've always enjoyed the kind of complex narrative games
0:10:51 > 0:10:53that give scope for your imagination
0:10:53 > 0:10:56and it seems to me that increasingly
0:10:56 > 0:10:59these are dealing with more sensitive, real-world issues,
0:10:59 > 0:11:03but still the big blockbuster AAA games made by the big companies
0:11:03 > 0:11:05don't quite go there.
0:11:05 > 0:11:06Do you think that's changing?
0:11:06 > 0:11:09Yes. If you look at something like BioShock, for example,
0:11:09 > 0:11:12which is a big sort of first-person shooter game,
0:11:12 > 0:11:15it was all about a fallen utopia under the sea
0:11:15 > 0:11:19that had been built by this entrepreneur called Andrew Ryan.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22He'd decided to create a place where the brightest and the best
0:11:22 > 0:11:26from art and science could come and practise their skills
0:11:26 > 0:11:28unhindered by the laws of the land.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
0:11:32 > 0:11:34And of course, it all goes terribly wrong
0:11:34 > 0:11:38and it becomes, you know, a civil war, basically.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40And you get literally plopped into the middle of it.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42Are there any games you've seen recently
0:11:42 > 0:11:46that have particularly struck you as being appropriately real world
0:11:46 > 0:11:48in terms of the concerns their dealing with?
0:11:48 > 0:11:51Oh, yes. Absolutely. So, you've got things like That Dragon, Cancer,
0:11:51 > 0:11:53which was created by a couple
0:11:53 > 0:11:56who had to deal with the loss of their child through cancer
0:11:56 > 0:11:58or something like Papo And Yo
0:11:58 > 0:12:02which was about a little boy dealing with an abusive, alcoholic father,
0:12:02 > 0:12:04that was actually the designer of the game himself
0:12:04 > 0:12:07had to deal with an abusive, alcoholic father.
0:12:07 > 0:12:12And there's been games like Ninja Pizza Girl that deals with bullying
0:12:12 > 0:12:17and it was put together by a family whose daughter was experiencing bullying
0:12:17 > 0:12:20and they decided to deal with it by making a game out of it,
0:12:20 > 0:12:22which I think is wonderful.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30Gameplay with its roots in very recent real-world events
0:12:30 > 0:12:34is becoming almost commonplace - at least in my gaming world.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39Recently, I've been playing a game Papers, Please,
0:12:39 > 0:12:43which has all sorts of resonances and bitter ironies for us
0:12:43 > 0:12:45in the wake of the recent EU referendum.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49In it, you play an immigration official
0:12:49 > 0:12:52in a fictitious Communist country in 1982
0:12:52 > 0:12:54and it's your job to check the papers
0:12:54 > 0:12:56of anyone who wants to come into your country.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58If you get it right, you get rewarded
0:12:58 > 0:13:01but if you get it wrong, if you let in the murderers, the pimps,
0:13:01 > 0:13:05the evil, scheming conmen, then you suffer and your family suffers.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08You can lose your home, you can lose your income, everything.
0:13:08 > 0:13:10It can be a complete disaster.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13And the more you play the game, the more difficult it becomes.
0:13:16 > 0:13:19Papers, Please was devised by Lucas Pope.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22So, Lucas, can you tell me where the idea for Papers, Please came from?
0:13:22 > 0:13:24I'm American but I live in Japan,
0:13:24 > 0:13:26so I travel a fair bit between Japan and the US
0:13:26 > 0:13:30and I also travel throughout Asia and kind of all over the world.
0:13:30 > 0:13:31And then I started paying attention
0:13:31 > 0:13:34to what the immigration inspectors do at the airport,
0:13:34 > 0:13:36checking the paperwork and checking your documents
0:13:36 > 0:13:39and checking the computer and then stamping and sending through.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42That whole rigmarole was interesting to me.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45So, it came really, from your own sort of sense of OCD-ness,
0:13:45 > 0:13:49as you say, rather than an overt political motive to make the point
0:13:49 > 0:13:52of how difficult it is to get in and out of countries.
0:13:52 > 0:13:53Yeah, definitely.
0:13:53 > 0:13:55The whole structure of the game came from the bottom up,
0:13:55 > 0:13:59where I started with the mechanics of just checking paperwork
0:13:59 > 0:14:00and looking for discrepancies.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03That part, I thought, could make a fun and interesting game.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05And of course, it's hit a nerve
0:14:05 > 0:14:08at this particular point in our history,
0:14:08 > 0:14:09where there is this huge migration crisis,
0:14:09 > 0:14:13a huge refugee crisis, particularly for us in the European Union.
0:14:13 > 0:14:18I tried to make the game sort of neutral in those messages.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21I didn't say immigration is great or immigration is terrible.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24I tried to make it more balanced and to show that, actually,
0:14:24 > 0:14:26there's issues and problems on all sides of it.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28And it's not a simple issue. It's not black and white.
0:14:28 > 0:14:30It's a spectrum of grey.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33And I wanted the player to sort of feel the different points along that spectrum
0:14:33 > 0:14:37of where, OK, immigration control is really important
0:14:37 > 0:14:39and immigration control hurts real people,
0:14:39 > 0:14:43so, I wanted people to sort of better understand
0:14:43 > 0:14:48the vast number of issues around that particular problem.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50Thanks very much for talking to us about this.
0:14:50 > 0:14:52I've really appreciated your time
0:14:52 > 0:14:54and I look forward to playing a lot more Papers, Please.
0:14:54 > 0:14:56Great, thanks very much. My pleasure.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03The City of Dundee was once known as the home of the three Js -
0:15:03 > 0:15:05jam, jute and journalism.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09Nowadays, Scotland's fourth largest city
0:15:09 > 0:15:11has a rather different claim to fame
0:15:11 > 0:15:14as a key creative hub for the booming British games industry.
0:15:16 > 0:15:18Grand Theft Auto was initially produced
0:15:18 > 0:15:20on the banks of the River Tay.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25Prominent indie game developers are still based in the city.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29One of them is Biome Collective,
0:15:29 > 0:15:32a collaborative group of designers.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35Their most recent creation is the game Killbox.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40It deals with the controversial subject of drone warfare,
0:15:40 > 0:15:43which has become a weapon of choice in the Western War On Terror.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48Malath Abbas, one of the game's co-creators,
0:15:48 > 0:15:50spent months researching the project.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54I was kind of researching about
0:15:54 > 0:15:57what's been happening in areas such as North Pakistan,
0:15:57 > 0:15:59which isn't actually a warzone
0:15:59 > 0:16:02but there's been a lot of drone warfare taking place
0:16:02 > 0:16:04because of the border with Afghanistan.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07So, we just researched online, read a few books,
0:16:07 > 0:16:08we watched a few documentaries,
0:16:08 > 0:16:12really kind of delved in as much as possible to the subject matter.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14It's quite a dark subject matter.
0:16:14 > 0:16:19How did you translate that research into a gaming environment,
0:16:19 > 0:16:22into something that worked for players?
0:16:23 > 0:16:26I think, really, we realised early on
0:16:26 > 0:16:29that one story that hadn't been told
0:16:29 > 0:16:34is the two different perspectives of a drone strike
0:16:34 > 0:16:37being from a pilot's point of view and someone on the ground.
0:16:37 > 0:16:41So, that was a focus from the very early stages
0:16:41 > 0:16:43of our research and development.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45And so we kind of started making a really basic prototype
0:16:45 > 0:16:48and even at a very early stage with basically graphics,
0:16:48 > 0:16:50and just using boxes and things,
0:16:50 > 0:16:53we had something that was quite engaging
0:16:53 > 0:16:56and that's the power of the interactive nature of our medium.
0:16:57 > 0:17:02To play the game, we entered this vast, empty space next-door.
0:17:02 > 0:17:03I wasn't sure what to expect.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08I was player one, the child,
0:17:08 > 0:17:11while Malath was player two, the drone operator.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16ARMY RADIO CHATTER
0:17:16 > 0:17:17It's just like playing ball.
0:17:19 > 0:17:20Follow the balls.
0:17:22 > 0:17:23Lots of balls to chase.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30At the beginning, it just felt like a normal game to me.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32You play the game from your own perspective
0:17:32 > 0:17:34and never see what the other player is doing.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36As the child on the ground,
0:17:36 > 0:17:39you become more aware of the sound of your opponent above you
0:17:39 > 0:17:41as they line up their drone strike on the village.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43Something's getting louder.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48Something's getting louder but I'm chasing lots of balls and it's fun and it's...
0:17:51 > 0:17:52WHOOSHING Ah!
0:17:55 > 0:17:56Jeez.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06That's really interesting.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09You know, the first bit's just like lots of games
0:18:09 > 0:18:11where you target something and you drop a bomb
0:18:11 > 0:18:15and, like, that's good, you killed three people,
0:18:15 > 0:18:17it's the game universe, that's fine.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20And then the second bit and then you start chasing the balls
0:18:20 > 0:18:24and you kind of forget the first bit of the game and then you're just chasing the balls
0:18:24 > 0:18:27- and collecting the balls and thinking, "How many of these am I going to get?"- Yeah.
0:18:27 > 0:18:28And then...
0:18:28 > 0:18:31- BOTH:- Boom. - Yeah.- That's really powerful.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34It does take you through a whole cycle of emotions.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38The game ends with sobering information
0:18:38 > 0:18:40about the impact of real drone strikes.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50Before I became a crime novelist, I was a tabloid journalist.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53I ended up as Northern Bureau Chief of a national Sunday paper.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59Sometimes, I covered major crime stories.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02The case that always came back to haunt us was the Moors murders.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07Every six months or so, a story would surface
0:19:07 > 0:19:11that turned our attention back to those terrible events.
0:19:11 > 0:19:12Over the years,
0:19:12 > 0:19:15I interviewed a lot of people connected to the case -
0:19:15 > 0:19:17the families of the victims,
0:19:17 > 0:19:19police officers who investigated the murders,
0:19:19 > 0:19:21journalists who were haunted for years afterwards
0:19:21 > 0:19:24by what they heard in the courtroom.
0:19:24 > 0:19:2520 years after the event,
0:19:25 > 0:19:29I was the first journalist to interview Ian Brady's mother.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31I interviewed one of Myra Hindley's girlfriends
0:19:31 > 0:19:33and the fellow prisoner who beat her up so badly
0:19:33 > 0:19:35she ended up needing plastic surgery.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40Decades after Hindley and Brady's gruesome murders,
0:19:40 > 0:19:41the pain still rippled down
0:19:41 > 0:19:44through generations of each of the victim's families.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49Their hurt is something I've never forgotten.
0:19:53 > 0:19:55When I began to make a living from writing crime novels,
0:19:55 > 0:19:58my experience of covering the Moors murders
0:19:58 > 0:20:01informed my decision not to base novels on individual cases.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06I'm always mindful to keep sight of the pain of the victims
0:20:06 > 0:20:07and their families in my stories.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20True crime stories have always fascinated us.
0:20:20 > 0:20:24Over the past year, there's been an explosion of them on our TV screens.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30A lot of the recent hits are American.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33HBO's The Jinx covered the surreal story
0:20:33 > 0:20:36of oddball property heir Robert Durst
0:20:36 > 0:20:38and a trail of murder victims he left in his wake
0:20:38 > 0:20:43over a 20-year period but was never actually charged for.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46Until this jaw-dropping ending to the series,
0:20:46 > 0:20:48which will likely condemn him to a life behind bars.
0:20:51 > 0:20:52Thank you very much.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54Well, thank you very much.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56Do we have Bob's bag nearby?
0:20:56 > 0:20:58Well, maybe this is the bathroom.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01- Yeah, that's the bathroom.- You were right. This is the bathroom.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13Netflix's Making A Murderer series caused a sensation
0:21:13 > 0:21:16when it was broadcast in late December last year.
0:21:18 > 0:21:20Short over the course of a decade,
0:21:20 > 0:21:24this ten-part series followed the case of Wisconsin man Steven Avery
0:21:24 > 0:21:27who was wrongly imprisoned in 1985 for murder.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31- NEWSREADER:- Steven Avery spent 18 years in prison
0:21:31 > 0:21:33for something he didn't do.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36The film-makers followed his attempted reintegration
0:21:36 > 0:21:38into normal life.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40The disappearance of Teresa Halbach remains a mystery.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44Mr Avery's blood is found inside of Teresa Halbach's vehicle.
0:21:44 > 0:21:46Within two years of finally being released,
0:21:46 > 0:21:49he was rearrested and jailed for another rape and murder,
0:21:49 > 0:21:53which he hotly disputed any involvement in.
0:21:53 > 0:21:54I didn't do it.
0:21:54 > 0:21:55Who did it?
0:21:55 > 0:21:57I don't know.
0:21:57 > 0:22:01Many viewers binge-watched both series in one or two sittings,
0:22:01 > 0:22:04transfixed by the twists and turns of complex murder cases,
0:22:04 > 0:22:09which the respective police forces had spent years investigating.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12And Making A Murderer provoked a flurry of amateur sleuthing
0:22:12 > 0:22:14among its dedicated audience.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16Many viewers spent hours on the internet,
0:22:16 > 0:22:18poring over the court transcripts,
0:22:18 > 0:22:21debating the various facets of Avery's case.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23As a crime writer myself,
0:22:23 > 0:22:25I'm well aware of the fascination people have
0:22:25 > 0:22:27with these true crime stories.
0:22:27 > 0:22:29And frankly, it's not surprising.
0:22:29 > 0:22:30We all love a mystery,
0:22:30 > 0:22:32especially the ones where we get an answer,
0:22:32 > 0:22:36where we feel somehow we understand better what has happened
0:22:36 > 0:22:38and why it's happened.
0:22:38 > 0:22:41And, let's face it, there's a kind of secret, shameful gratification
0:22:41 > 0:22:45in watching lightening striking somebody else's house.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47But what worries me most about these kind of programmes
0:22:47 > 0:22:50is not the way the audience are invited to rush to judgment.
0:22:50 > 0:22:55It's not even the editorial hand that shapes what the audience sees and hears.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58It's the way that the victims are ignored in all of this
0:22:58 > 0:23:01because, when we disregard the victims, we diminish the crime.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05Criminologist Roger Graef has a long track record
0:23:05 > 0:23:10of producing crime documentaries for British television.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12Trident is an elite unit,
0:23:12 > 0:23:14focused on black-on-black gun crime in London.
0:23:14 > 0:23:19To reassure the local community, a murder team takes the case.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23He has made over 50 programmes, covering all kinds of crimes
0:23:23 > 0:23:25and live police investigations.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28What are the ethical considerations that come into play
0:23:28 > 0:23:30when you're making these kind of programmes?
0:23:30 > 0:23:34Well, the first one, which applies to absolutely all the films,
0:23:34 > 0:23:37even whether they're not about policing and crime,
0:23:37 > 0:23:39is you don't want to interfere in the work,
0:23:39 > 0:23:40whatever it is you're looking at.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43And in something as sensitive as an arrest or an interrogation
0:23:43 > 0:23:45or things of that nature,
0:23:45 > 0:23:48which can certainly affect people's lives,
0:23:48 > 0:23:51you have to make absolutely certain that you haven't influenced the outcome,
0:23:51 > 0:23:54and that takes a lot of work and a lot of restraint.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57There's been recently a run of television programmes
0:23:57 > 0:23:59which are almost making us citizen detectives -
0:23:59 > 0:24:03or citizen programme-makers at the very least -
0:24:03 > 0:24:06I'm thinking of things like the Making Of A Murderer.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09What's your feeling about programmes like this?
0:24:09 > 0:24:12Well, first of all, anything that lasts more than half an hour,
0:24:12 > 0:24:14I think, is a step in the right direction
0:24:14 > 0:24:17because the real complexity of the justice system
0:24:17 > 0:24:21is never reflected - or very, very seldom reflected -
0:24:21 > 0:24:24in the television versions of them or even the fictional ones.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26The real crimes like Making Of A Murderer
0:24:26 > 0:24:30that was, as far as I remember, ten episodes, something like that
0:24:30 > 0:24:32was really good because it twisted and turned
0:24:32 > 0:24:36and they thought they had him and then they didn't and then they found new evidence and so on.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39And that journey is much more characteristic
0:24:39 > 0:24:43than the short, compressed versions, even if they're real.
0:24:43 > 0:24:47You're dealing with the police, you're dealing with the perpetrators, but how do you engage
0:24:47 > 0:24:49with the victim's point of view?
0:24:49 > 0:24:52In the most recent series, Channel 4 asked us
0:24:52 > 0:24:57and the film-makers set out very much to include the victim's parents
0:24:57 > 0:25:01as very active participants in that series,
0:25:01 > 0:25:05and they agreed and got a great deal out of it and so did the audience.
0:25:05 > 0:25:10It won a Bafta because was a 360-degree view of this murder
0:25:10 > 0:25:13and I've filmed victims in the past
0:25:13 > 0:25:15and I'm particularly interested in restorative justice,
0:25:15 > 0:25:18which gives victims a voice.
0:25:18 > 0:25:20One word - why?
0:25:21 > 0:25:24Why would somebody want to hurt Nicholas?
0:25:28 > 0:25:30They shouldn't kill my son.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37In the early 1980s, Roger spent over a year
0:25:37 > 0:25:41filming the Thames Valley Police for a BBC series.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44In one episode,
0:25:44 > 0:25:48they followed a rape case which posed several editorial dilemmas.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52So, you recognised them from the pub, not having seen them before?
0:25:52 > 0:25:55- Yeah. I hadn't seen them before, ever before.- Yeah.
0:25:55 > 0:25:57No, I hadn't seen them before today.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01The girl was slightly damaged and had been in mental hospitals
0:26:01 > 0:26:06and so on and we had tried five other cases before we did this one.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09But because she didn't want to be on camera
0:26:09 > 0:26:11it's all filmed from behind her head
0:26:11 > 0:26:15and that means that the camera is looking right at you, the audience, right?
0:26:15 > 0:26:18And so instead of you sitting round judging her,
0:26:18 > 0:26:20you feel the way the interrogation goes
0:26:20 > 0:26:22and that's what gave it the power it had.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24And in a curious way,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27it neutralised the experience from it being a personal one,
0:26:27 > 0:26:29although obviously it was awful for her.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32She might have concocted the rape story or something like that.
0:26:32 > 0:26:35- Or she knows these three lads and she's...- A cover-up job?
0:26:35 > 0:26:38Yeah, she's never, ever seen these three lads before, she claims,
0:26:38 > 0:26:40and yet, she recognised them when she came out the pub.
0:26:40 > 0:26:42The programme had an immediate impact.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45It led to a change in police procedure
0:26:45 > 0:26:48over how rape victims were interviewed.
0:26:48 > 0:26:51And it showed the value of sensitively-made crime documentaries.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Every film I've made - I mean every film I've made -
0:26:55 > 0:26:58has been an attempt to either understand a social problem
0:26:58 > 0:27:01or if I've understood it, to do something about it.
0:27:01 > 0:27:06Do you think there are difficulties inherent in the documentary process
0:27:06 > 0:27:07and its relationship to truth?
0:27:07 > 0:27:10Of course. First of all, you can't show the whole thing.
0:27:10 > 0:27:12Secondly, you can't film the whole thing, you can't be...
0:27:12 > 0:27:16We were at the Thames Valley at Reading Police Station
0:27:16 > 0:27:18nine months out of 12
0:27:18 > 0:27:21and we still called our own work, "you should've been there Thursday"
0:27:21 > 0:27:23because no matter when we turned up,
0:27:23 > 0:27:25- that's what the cops would say to us.- Yes.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28Right? And we missed all the high-profile cases.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31The really interesting thing about that series is there's almost no crime in it,
0:27:31 > 0:27:34there's certainly no big-time cases.
0:27:34 > 0:27:36The rape film turned absolutely no...
0:27:36 > 0:27:38It went nowhere, they let her go and she walks away,
0:27:38 > 0:27:41and it was in real-time. It was an hour and a half of filming,
0:27:41 > 0:27:43we showed 45 minutes of it.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46It was the most important film ever shown
0:27:46 > 0:27:48- about police practice up to that point.- Mm-hmm.
0:27:56 > 0:27:59There are all sorts of obstacles to communicating truth.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02Making stuff up is a way of putting fictional situations
0:28:02 > 0:28:06in front of people so they can get a handle on real events
0:28:06 > 0:28:07without feeling preached at.
0:28:11 > 0:28:13But whether we re-examine the world
0:28:13 > 0:28:16by taking aspects of it to fantastical extremes
0:28:16 > 0:28:20or highlighting injustice by showing the consequences of our actions,
0:28:20 > 0:28:23the power to create comes with responsibility
0:28:23 > 0:28:26to reflect the real issues of our time in a truthful way.