0:00:04 > 0:00:06MUSIC: Pretty Vacant by The Sex Pistols
0:00:06 > 0:00:08I'm an interviewer,
0:00:08 > 0:00:12and I must have interviewed hundreds of people by now.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17But this one, I'm not quite sure what awaits me.
0:00:17 > 0:00:21I'm interviewing John Lydon, who, as the angry frontman
0:00:21 > 0:00:26for the Sex Pistols, personified punk and all it stood for.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30# We're so pretty, oh so pretty... #
0:00:30 > 0:00:33What about the word "punk"? It means worthless, nasty.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36Johnny Rotten, are you happy with this word?
0:00:36 > 0:00:38No, the press gave us it.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40It's their problem, not ours.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42We never called ourselves punk.
0:00:44 > 0:00:47After leaving the Sex Pistols in 1978,
0:00:47 > 0:00:52Lydon formed Public Image Ltd, a much more experimental band,
0:00:52 > 0:00:55giving him an outlet for more personal songs.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58# You never listened to a word that I said
0:00:58 > 0:01:01# You only see me for the clothes that I wear... #
0:01:01 > 0:01:0640 years on from his punk days, and having just turned 60,
0:01:06 > 0:01:08is John Lydon still angry?
0:01:14 > 0:01:19'I met John at the end of a European tour promoting PiL's latest
0:01:19 > 0:01:22'album, What The World Needs Now.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25'He's just off the tour bus and has terrible flu.'
0:01:25 > 0:01:30Because I'm so ill today, I'm having a Garden Of Love drink.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33Oh, good, and what's in it?
0:01:33 > 0:01:36Well, it's tomato juice, you know, a few herbs and spices,
0:01:36 > 0:01:38and...(vodka).
0:01:38 > 0:01:40And vodka? OK.
0:01:40 > 0:01:41I thought you'd hear that.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43- Yeah.- Well done.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46You turned 60 at the beginning of this year.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49Was that...worrying, coming up to 60?
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Did you sort of think, "I'm old"?
0:01:52 > 0:01:55No. When I was 21, that was a worry.
0:01:55 > 0:01:59I became very, very precious about myself that day.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02And, about ten minutes later, I got over it,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05and now I don't think age at all.
0:02:05 > 0:02:07No, 60's fine.
0:02:07 > 0:02:11I look at it as a really, really, seriously good achievement.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13- To have lasted this long?- Yeah.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15Because I wouldn't have given myself the chance at 21.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18And I was sad at being 21.
0:02:18 > 0:02:19Because I thought that was old.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22- Yeah.- So, the thought of 60 was, like, "Oh, shock horrors.
0:02:22 > 0:02:24"That can never happen."
0:02:24 > 0:02:27But it does, and it's fantastic,
0:02:27 > 0:02:31and I'm really pleased that I've outlived so many of my peers,
0:02:31 > 0:02:34because life has been, the longer I go on, the more rewarding.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36Yes.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38The more a sense of achievement,
0:02:38 > 0:02:40the more to do, the more to enjoy.
0:02:40 > 0:02:42Do you mean literally you sort of say,
0:02:42 > 0:02:44"Oh, that one's gone, glad he died, glad he died," or...?
0:02:44 > 0:02:46No, I would never think that.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48Actually, I miss the death of
0:02:48 > 0:02:49every human being.
0:02:49 > 0:02:54I've had mortal enemies die, and I really, really miss their place.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57I wondered, actually, did you sort of forgive Malcolm McLaren?
0:02:57 > 0:03:02You have to, instantly, the second anybody dies. You have to.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05You never carry rage on into their death, ever.
0:03:05 > 0:03:06Ever, ever.
0:03:06 > 0:03:10It's the most disrespectful thing I think you could ever show
0:03:10 > 0:03:13- the human race is contempt for a fellow human being...- Right.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16..once they've ceased to exist and can't defend themselves.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19From thereon in, the rest of my life,
0:03:19 > 0:03:22- I will defend their position.- Yeah.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24That's how I see it.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26But he is somebody you seemed to have
0:03:26 > 0:03:29a sort of long bitterness about, or...
0:03:29 > 0:03:32- No!- Yeah.- Not at all.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35- OK.- Obviously he was a bit weak, but he can't help that.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38- That's part of his personality. - Yeah, yeah.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40And an exciting part of it, too,
0:03:40 > 0:03:45because it gets you into creative situations that...
0:03:47 > 0:03:53- Because he's so, um...malleable... - Yeah.- ..it can lead to trouble,
0:03:53 > 0:03:56because he'll run away when the trouble comes.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59And then...then it became my duty to sort it out.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02# Trouble is the end of the shame
0:04:02 > 0:04:04# I wanted trouble
0:04:04 > 0:04:07# Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble... #
0:04:07 > 0:04:14'PiL's latest album, What The World Needs Now, was recorded in 2015.'
0:04:14 > 0:04:17I thought that there was quite a lot of anger in this album.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19Oh, I am amazed(!)
0:04:19 > 0:04:21OK.
0:04:21 > 0:04:26- I think a kind of brittle, volatile humour.- Yes.
0:04:26 > 0:04:30Not anger, not rage, not resentment.
0:04:30 > 0:04:32Actually, there's a hope in it.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34Because of the humour.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37It's striving for a better way around all of our problems.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40- Yes.- Rather than continuously making enemies.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43I mean, actually, the one I thought was really,
0:04:43 > 0:04:46- really good was Double Trouble.- Oh. - HE LAUGHS
0:04:46 > 0:04:50- Yes.- The worst row on it. - Well, exactly.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52But I will say... LAUGHTER
0:04:52 > 0:04:55But also because it did, I thought,
0:04:55 > 0:05:00give a really sort of...compressed but very tight picture of...
0:05:00 > 0:05:05- I hope it brought clarity to domestic situations...- Yes.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08..that sometimes can get so out of hand,
0:05:08 > 0:05:10and you have to be able to look around
0:05:10 > 0:05:15- and laugh at yourself at some point. - Yes.- And that's what that song does.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18And that's the actual reality of the row that we had.
0:05:18 > 0:05:21And that now is Nora's favourite song on the album.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23Nora, your wife. Yes.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25- It makes her just scream with laughter.- Oh, good. Yeah.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29And we turned an argument about the installation of a toilet
0:05:29 > 0:05:31into a song.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38# What? You fucking nagging again?
0:05:38 > 0:05:41# About what? What? What?
0:05:41 > 0:05:43# The toilet's fucking broken again
0:05:43 > 0:05:46# I repaired that, I told you
0:05:46 > 0:05:48# Get the plumber in again
0:05:48 > 0:05:52# And again and again and again and again and again and again... #
0:05:52 > 0:05:54You're saying that you want to have a row,
0:05:54 > 0:05:57- you quite like to have a row... - Yeah, yeah, yeah.- ..and she's basically saying,
0:05:57 > 0:06:01- "Just mend the bloody toilet."- Yeah, but really pushing for the argument,
0:06:01 > 0:06:04and sometimes in relationships it's really healthy...
0:06:04 > 0:06:07- Yeah, yeah.- ..to go for the jugular. - Yeah.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09Because, once you're there, you realise,
0:06:09 > 0:06:12"Ooh, you might be a bit wrong in this one."
0:06:12 > 0:06:13Yes, yes.
0:06:13 > 0:06:18And because there's a woman involved, you're definitely wrong.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20- Yes.- And you gotta be fair about that,
0:06:20 > 0:06:23and so you pull back, but you've learnt.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26- You've learnt that all that pent-up aggression...- Is good for you.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28..isn't about the toilet at all,
0:06:28 > 0:06:31- but it is good for you to release it and find a way out.- Yeah.
0:06:31 > 0:06:35And makes for an amazing song, and I look at that song now and
0:06:35 > 0:06:38I think, "I guess nobody's really used these kinds of situations."
0:06:38 > 0:06:40Yeah, absolutely.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43But did the song actually start with you saying...?
0:06:43 > 0:06:45Yeah, "What? Are you nagging again?"
0:06:45 > 0:06:48- I mean, was that the first line you wrote.- Yeah!- Oh.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51Because I'd set the premise of the song, like, installing
0:06:51 > 0:06:56a toilet single-handedly four years ago in America, and so that was it.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00- Yes.- If you did it then, you can do it now.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03# Give me a row, right now
0:07:03 > 0:07:06# We'll stir it up and clear the air
0:07:06 > 0:07:09# On what is what, it's only fair
0:07:12 > 0:07:14# I want the trouble, trouble, trouble
0:07:14 > 0:07:15# On the double, double, double
0:07:15 > 0:07:18# Give me trouble... #
0:07:18 > 0:07:22- And did you then write it all sort of soon, all together?- Yeah, yeah.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Because it seems to have different movements in it.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29If a song roughly comes together, usually very, very, quickly,
0:07:29 > 0:07:33if the idea's good, it will naturally flow.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36And that's one of the few songs that really, really did.
0:07:36 > 0:07:38# I want the trouble, trouble, trouble
0:07:38 > 0:07:40# On the double, double, double
0:07:40 > 0:07:42# Give me trouble
0:07:42 > 0:07:45# Oh, yeah!
0:07:49 > 0:07:51# I want the trouble! #
0:07:52 > 0:07:55What? What do you want now?
0:07:55 > 0:07:58You still have quite an angry public image,
0:07:58 > 0:08:03but you're obviously very mellow, really, aren't you?
0:08:03 > 0:08:06Um, if I had a philosophical hero,
0:08:06 > 0:08:09and I sort of do, it's Gandhi.
0:08:09 > 0:08:10- Oh, right.- Passive resistance.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13- Yes.- Yeah.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15Major modern achievement.
0:08:15 > 0:08:19- And you like listening to Mozart, and you get up at dawn.- Yeah.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21And you're healthy...
0:08:21 > 0:08:26But I also like listening to, you know, mad crash death metal.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28Right. Right.
0:08:28 > 0:08:33How druggie were you in your youth? It was amphetamines you took, yes?
0:08:33 > 0:08:36"Druggie?" No. I've never considered speed to be a drug.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39It's something that helps you stay awake while you get
0:08:39 > 0:08:41to drink a hell of a lot more.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44Oh, I see. So, the drink is the primary thing.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49So, it wasn't, like, that you had been very druggie and then
0:08:49 > 0:08:51you went in rehab and then you were clean?
0:08:51 > 0:08:56No, and I never understood this in the Pistols scenario either.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59When I keep hearing about them all talking about the heroin in it,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02I never seen it, really.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05I knew Sid was messing about, because his mother messed about,
0:09:05 > 0:09:07and so he stood no chance there.
0:09:07 > 0:09:09Yeah.
0:09:09 > 0:09:10When Sid Vicious died,
0:09:10 > 0:09:14did you feel guilty about having introduced him into the band?
0:09:14 > 0:09:15Yeah.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18I thought he'd handle it better, and I suppose I was being a bit selfish.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21I felt I needed an ally in the band.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24And so I wasn't quite looking out for him fully.
0:09:24 > 0:09:25Am I my brother's keeper?
0:09:25 > 0:09:27I mean, we're all about the same age,
0:09:27 > 0:09:30we've all had the same life experiences.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33Some of us learn better than others.
0:09:33 > 0:09:37# Well, c'mon everybody and let's get together tonight
0:09:38 > 0:09:42# I got some money in my jeans and I'm really gonna spend it right... #
0:09:42 > 0:09:47It broke me up to watch him just fall apart like that.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50And it just wisped out of your hands.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53# Ooh, c'mon everybody... #
0:09:53 > 0:09:57Do you think if you hadn't brought him into the Sex Pistols...?
0:09:57 > 0:09:59- He'd have had no life at all. - Really? Yeah.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01You might as well, you know, burn up...
0:10:01 > 0:10:04He wouldn't be a happily married father-of-six?
0:10:04 > 0:10:06- Never, ever, ever was that possible for him.- No. OK.
0:10:06 > 0:10:08Ever.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11So, some track of doom he was on, whatever.
0:10:11 > 0:10:15Just some people are born for the short circuit. You know.
0:10:15 > 0:10:20And it's what he wanted, he wanted a life of instant gratification.
0:10:20 > 0:10:21Yeah.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23Unfortunately, that kind of lifestyle,
0:10:23 > 0:10:25you have to actually work for it.
0:10:25 > 0:10:26Yeah, yeah.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28And that let him down.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32And, I tell you, I mean, many people would be jealous of this,
0:10:32 > 0:10:35he had no aptitude for music whatsoever.
0:10:35 > 0:10:37- None.- Right.
0:10:37 > 0:10:40And yet got through that.
0:10:40 > 0:10:41- That's...- Yes.
0:10:41 > 0:10:43- Very quickly.- Yes.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46But...that's fantastic, and, so...
0:10:46 > 0:10:48I suppose, in that way, I can say,
0:10:48 > 0:10:52you know, "Cor, we gave you something good there, Sid."
0:10:52 > 0:10:56Yeah. Are you quite a sort of health nut?
0:10:56 > 0:10:57It seems an odd thing to ask you, but...
0:10:57 > 0:11:00- No, very, very far removed from that.- OK.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03I've got no concept of exercise.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07I wondered there if you were into, I don't know,
0:11:07 > 0:11:09green diets or something healthy.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12No, no, no. All of those things, you end up with diarrhoea.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15- It's very unpleasant. - SHE LAUGHS
0:11:15 > 0:11:18I read recently, though, that you're worried about your eyesight.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22- Is that...?- Oh, yeah. You notice I'm constantly trying to focus?
0:11:22 > 0:11:25- Well, are you? Yeah.- Yeah.- I wondered slightly. So, what is it?
0:11:25 > 0:11:28It's going very, very...bleary.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30- All over?- Yeah.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32- Yeah.- And that's what?
0:11:32 > 0:11:35Well, I don't think you can get your eyes lasered for just
0:11:35 > 0:11:38- worn-out muscles.- Oh, right.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41And I just... They just won't function any more.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45So, it's stronger and stronger glasses. And that's really
0:11:45 > 0:11:47painful for me, because I love to paint, I love to write.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49Oh, right.
0:11:49 > 0:11:51That's... I'm missing so much that...
0:11:51 > 0:11:56But you've always had this sort of strange characteristic stare
0:11:56 > 0:11:59- with sort of poppy eyes. - It's called focus.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03- Well, that's you trying to focus, is it?- Yeah.- Yes, that.
0:12:03 > 0:12:07That. But I mean I wondered if doing that was bad for you.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10Well, it's the only way I can actually get to realise what
0:12:10 > 0:12:11- it is I'm looking at.- Oh.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13And, in a live performance,
0:12:13 > 0:12:17it's really important to me sometimes that I actually
0:12:17 > 0:12:21acknowledge accurately what it is these looks that are coming at
0:12:21 > 0:12:24me are all about, what they're really all about.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28And so I would take that time to, like, you know, work it out.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31- Oh, right.- And sometimes people think that's frightening.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35But the smarter ones realise that I'm trying to share with them
0:12:35 > 0:12:38- eyeball-to-eyeball contact.- Yeah.
0:12:38 > 0:12:43Which can be an amazingly emotional thing on a live...a live gig.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50# Ah-woooo
0:12:51 > 0:12:55# Ah-woooo
0:12:55 > 0:12:57# Maybe you there
0:12:57 > 0:13:00# Oh, maybe you can stroke me
0:13:00 > 0:13:02# Somebody there
0:13:02 > 0:13:05# Oh, maybe they awoke me
0:13:05 > 0:13:08# And in the embers there
0:13:08 > 0:13:11# Get up in the fire
0:13:11 > 0:13:14# When the boat comes in
0:13:14 > 0:13:17# Gonna be the one... #
0:13:17 > 0:13:20There's a song on this album, The One, tell me about that.
0:13:20 > 0:13:22What's that all about?
0:13:22 > 0:13:25It's several things all put in together.
0:13:25 > 0:13:31It started out as a really nice homage to... I suppose you'd
0:13:31 > 0:13:32call it glitter rock.
0:13:32 > 0:13:36- Right.- That period. T. Rex, Mungo Jerry...
0:13:36 > 0:13:38Gary Glitter.
0:13:38 > 0:13:44Uh, they were making really, really nice, like, crunchy dance music in a
0:13:44 > 0:13:50pop music way, and it was thrilling, the noises from them productions.
0:13:50 > 0:13:53That was the backdrop really, to me, like,
0:13:53 > 0:13:55trying to chat up girls at that time.
0:13:55 > 0:14:00- OK.- You know? 14, 15, and very, very useless at it.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04And I'd be learning how to dance at home, too,
0:14:04 > 0:14:06those kind of rhythms,
0:14:06 > 0:14:11and making a complete fool of myself at the local, you know, social.
0:14:11 > 0:14:12Yeah.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15But, still, I kept at it.
0:14:15 > 0:14:19Eventually, girls did learn to dance with me.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22Yeah, well...I mean, you probably were good at chatting them up,
0:14:22 > 0:14:26- weren't you?- No, absolutely horribly shy and useless.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28And I wanted that to be in the song.
0:14:28 > 0:14:30- Yeah.- You know?
0:14:30 > 0:14:34To encapsulate the truth and honesty of just feeling like
0:14:34 > 0:14:38a horribly spotty, inadequate teenager.
0:14:38 > 0:14:43- Yes.- A good precursor to the Sex Pistols is really what it was.- Yeah.
0:14:43 > 0:14:47But there's other verses in there, too, that, me being me,
0:14:47 > 0:14:51I feel I have to bring in, and one of them is my respect for
0:14:51 > 0:14:55the British military, particularly paratroopers.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57I have friends who do that.
0:14:57 > 0:15:02And...what it is they face when they go abroad.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07# Foreign land
0:15:07 > 0:15:09# Ah-wooooo
0:15:09 > 0:15:11# With a had full of sand
0:15:11 > 0:15:14# Ah-wooooo
0:15:14 > 0:15:19# It's in the palm of my hand
0:15:19 > 0:15:23# I'll be there when I can
0:15:25 > 0:15:31# Got that one... #
0:15:31 > 0:15:36This is meaning quite a lot to me, because it...
0:15:36 > 0:15:39They're enduring something I'm not enduring,
0:15:39 > 0:15:41- and they're doing this on my behalf. - Yeah.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44And, hopefully, for some kind of sense of world peace,
0:15:44 > 0:15:49and I just want to give my respect to my fellow human beings who
0:15:49 > 0:15:53unfortunately find themselves as soldiers, policing the world...
0:15:53 > 0:15:56in situations they did not create.
0:15:57 > 0:16:02# You're the one
0:16:03 > 0:16:09# And you got that one
0:16:11 > 0:16:14# One! #
0:16:15 > 0:16:19'The latest incarnation of PiL was funded by John taking
0:16:19 > 0:16:23'a break from the band and becoming a television personality.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28Oh, what a stink! Bloody hell, I need a gas mask.
0:16:31 > 0:16:33All right.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36There they are. There's some real whoppers around.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38Hello.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41There was a period when you were sort of wandering away from
0:16:41 > 0:16:44the path of being a musician. JOHN LAUGHS
0:16:44 > 0:16:47God, people don't give me no breaks, do they?
0:16:47 > 0:16:48Well...
0:16:48 > 0:16:51I was having great fun raising money for...
0:16:51 > 0:16:53Well, yeah, that's what you then explained in the book,
0:16:53 > 0:16:55that I hadn't realised at the time,
0:16:55 > 0:16:58that you were doing it to get the money to carry on with the music.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01- Yeah.- Yeah, that makes sense. - Yeah.- Yeah.
0:17:01 > 0:17:05It was just the bravery of knowing that I would have to
0:17:05 > 0:17:09face-to-face off with a lot of people accusing me
0:17:09 > 0:17:11of a lot of things here.
0:17:11 > 0:17:12The word "sellout",
0:17:12 > 0:17:15you know, all of these things were going to be thrown at me.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18Yes, well, people are always keen on calling anyone a sellout.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21- People that are cable of jealousy no matter what it is you do.- Yeah.
0:17:21 > 0:17:25- So, they're going to be jealous anyway. At least do something.- Yeah.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28You know? There's no point in sitting back and being shy and coy
0:17:28 > 0:17:31and doing nothing, cos they're still going to hate you.
0:17:31 > 0:17:35- Yes, yes. - Give them a bloody good reason.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37A bit of that... # Mysterious girl...#
0:17:37 > 0:17:38Why do you know how to do it?
0:17:38 > 0:17:41Did you used to get your derby out, used to get your derby out, did you?
0:17:41 > 0:17:46- I'm not here to support a page three- BLEEP- blow-up balloon.
0:17:46 > 0:17:47Right?
0:17:47 > 0:17:49I fucking ain't!
0:17:52 > 0:17:54- No- BLEEP- more.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56Bollocks to you.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00Doing I'm A Celebrity wasn't such a happy experience?
0:18:00 > 0:18:04- They did some really, really bad things to us.- Yeah.
0:18:04 > 0:18:08The deal was that they would tell me when my wife arrived in
0:18:08 > 0:18:11Australia, cos they flew out in advance for the show.
0:18:11 > 0:18:13And...they refused.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17And that's very, very spiteful, because Nora and I,
0:18:17 > 0:18:19we missed the Lockerbie flight...
0:18:19 > 0:18:22- Oh, yes.- ..just by hours.- Yeah.
0:18:22 > 0:18:24Just because it had been slow packing bags.
0:18:24 > 0:18:30And...well, from that day on, I have to know her every movement.
0:18:30 > 0:18:34- Yeah.- Particularly through airports.- Oh, right.
0:18:34 > 0:18:38And that's not something you should hold the information back on.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41- Yeah.- Everybody else seemed to have family connections,
0:18:41 > 0:18:44cos they'd all tell us later, and I thought,
0:18:44 > 0:18:47"Oh, dear, here it goes, yeah, they're trying to wind me up here."
0:18:47 > 0:18:49- Yes.- "And create a scene."
0:18:49 > 0:18:53Me, I'm fine with it. You know?
0:18:53 > 0:18:56You can't hurt me. You cannot hurt me.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58You cannot stop me, you cannot beat me.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03And, so, I know that and you know that.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07Bye-bye.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09There seems to be quite a lot about sex in this album.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12Bettie Page, first and foremost.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15It was, uh...one of the earliest strippers who got away with it,
0:19:15 > 0:19:17really, in America.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22# Stripping down to the stars and stripes
0:19:25 > 0:19:28# To Bettie Page, yeah
0:19:29 > 0:19:33# Well, you can take my stage... #
0:19:36 > 0:19:38Was that a real person?
0:19:38 > 0:19:41A real person, a very, very seriously interesting...
0:19:41 > 0:19:48Because this was at the time of the Prohibition, and the Mafia
0:19:48 > 0:19:52running the nightclubs, and the evangelical Right,
0:19:52 > 0:19:55and she managed to survive through all of these elements
0:19:55 > 0:19:58as a very, very independent-thinking woman.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01And that's an incredible achievement for then.
0:20:01 > 0:20:02But what got you...?
0:20:02 > 0:20:06That was the worst thing to be was a woman with a free mind and spirit.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08- And sexy.- No, she wasn't, though.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11HE LAUGHS Oh, she wasn't? Oh!
0:20:11 > 0:20:15- I thought that...- Well, maybe at the time that was considered,
0:20:15 > 0:20:19but I look back at it now and it's kind of... It's quaint, but people
0:20:19 > 0:20:23have got to know that that quaint is what got them their freedoms today.
0:20:31 > 0:20:36Do you ever sit down alone and listen to Sex Pistols?
0:20:36 > 0:20:39- Alone?- Yeah. HE LAUGHS
0:20:39 > 0:20:41- No, no.- Yes.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43Like I do all my records. Everything I've been on.
0:20:43 > 0:20:48I'll do this every couple of years, just to remind myself and be
0:20:48 > 0:20:54really surprised by what I wrote, and what I did, and how I did it.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58# The public image... #
0:21:05 > 0:21:08# This is not a love song
0:21:08 > 0:21:12# This is not a love song, this is not a love song
0:21:12 > 0:21:15# This is not a love song, This is not a love song... #
0:21:15 > 0:21:19# I could be right
0:21:24 > 0:21:26# I could be wrong... #
0:21:26 > 0:21:29What are you proudest of, which single...?
0:21:29 > 0:21:31- Just the sheer body of it. - Oh, right.
0:21:31 > 0:21:33And its variety.
0:21:33 > 0:21:37And it seems utterly limitless, it's...
0:21:37 > 0:21:41- I seem to be able to go in any direction with any force.- Yeah.
0:21:41 > 0:21:44And avoid cliches.
0:21:44 > 0:21:45Yes.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48But it's not enough yet.
0:21:48 > 0:21:49What, you want to go on writing...?
0:21:49 > 0:21:52Oh, there's much, much more. Much, much more to do.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55And you now have a group that you all get on with,
0:21:55 > 0:21:58where, in the past, you were often at war with your own...
0:21:58 > 0:22:03- Well, always at the beginnings, it's always great fun, isn't it?- Oh, OK.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06- And then you're at war. - Then you're at war.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09No, the jealousies have stopped.
0:22:09 > 0:22:11I've found a perfect blend,
0:22:11 > 0:22:14and Lou and Bruce, I mean...
0:22:14 > 0:22:18- I've known those fellas since I first started.- Yeah.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20You know, I was in the Pistols, Lou was in The Damned.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23Bruce is in The Pop Group.
0:22:23 > 0:22:26That's three very relevant bands from them early days,
0:22:26 > 0:22:30- and yet here we are still as friends.- Yeah.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34You said in your book, "I'm a quiet, contemplative kind of soul,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37"the deep thinker, and, oddly enough, very rational."
0:22:37 > 0:22:42I mean, do you seriously think that? You think that you're...?
0:22:42 > 0:22:45- It's possible.- Very rational?
0:22:45 > 0:22:48Yes, that's an important part of song-writing.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52- Yes.- You get the drama out the way quickly and then you can correct it.
0:22:52 > 0:22:54Yes.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56And I believe fully that you don't get nowhere in this life
0:22:56 > 0:23:00unless you involve hard, serious work with it.
0:23:00 > 0:23:01Yeah.
0:23:01 > 0:23:07And this is what the King of Punk has always, always detailed.
0:23:07 > 0:23:08Hard work.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10I do not want to remain a cliche,
0:23:10 > 0:23:14I do not want to sing and do the same things year in, year out.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17I want to advance this.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20I've been given an opportunity, and I see that as a gift,
0:23:20 > 0:23:22and I will not throw away lightly.
0:23:22 > 0:23:23Yeah.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27And the more extreme and further and different I can take it, the better.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30Did you just call yourself the King of Punk?
0:23:30 > 0:23:31Yeah. It's the truth.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33I thought you didn't like the label, punk.
0:23:33 > 0:23:36I don't, I don't, but I'm not going to give it to any old wanker.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38Oh, I see, OK. LAUGHTER
0:23:38 > 0:23:41- And the thing... - I kind of had to earn it.- Yes.
0:23:41 > 0:23:45I had to fight for it, and...and there it is.
0:23:45 > 0:23:49You'd be foolish to throw that away to some
0:23:49 > 0:23:51wannabe Johnny Rotten character.
0:23:51 > 0:23:53Yeah.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55If they're to truly understand what punk is, then,
0:23:55 > 0:23:59to understand it, it's advancing yourself continuously,
0:23:59 > 0:24:01opening more and more doors,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04making more and more messages possible.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08And, so, King of Punk ain't no narrow-mind.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11# What the world needs now
0:24:14 > 0:24:18# Is another "Fuck off!" #
0:24:18 > 0:24:20What does "shoom" mean, actually?
0:24:20 > 0:24:24It's the sound that the drum machine made when it broke.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26Oh, OK.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29- And...- A dying force. - Yeah. Shoooooom.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32- OK.- And it was hilarious.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35And I kind of rallied around that and...
0:24:35 > 0:24:39we turned it into a very, very interesting song,
0:24:39 > 0:24:42which is...it's a requiem,
0:24:42 > 0:24:44done my inimitably different way,
0:24:44 > 0:24:47I must admit, a bit odd.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49It's from my dad's point of view and
0:24:49 > 0:24:52the dry humour he had and...
0:24:52 > 0:24:53He was great company...
0:24:53 > 0:24:55- From your dad's point of view?- Yeah.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58Cos you say, "What the world needs now is another...?"
0:24:58 > 0:25:01Oh, yeah, this is how my dad would be, he'd sit in the pub,
0:25:01 > 0:25:05near the jukebox, always complaining about every single noise
0:25:05 > 0:25:06that came out of it.
0:25:06 > 0:25:08Oh, but he wouldn't...?
0:25:08 > 0:25:10- With great irony, with laughter.- Yeah.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13Humour. Very, very dry.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15And that's like...
0:25:15 > 0:25:17I never realised it when I was younger,
0:25:17 > 0:25:20that was...that was all part of my personality, too.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23But when he died, you sort of remembered...
0:25:23 > 0:25:26- I remembered that side, yeah.- Yeah.
0:25:26 > 0:25:28It was a sad time.
0:25:28 > 0:25:32He died a couple of years just before we made the last album,
0:25:32 > 0:25:34and I wanted something for him.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37It doesn't explicitly mention your father, though, does it?
0:25:37 > 0:25:40It shouldn't. Doesn't need to. It's the thought process that's there.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43But isn't that the one that's sort of "sex is all bollocks,
0:25:43 > 0:25:46- "music is all bollocks..."? - Yeah. That'd be my dad.
0:25:46 > 0:25:48OK. OK.
0:25:48 > 0:25:50Many disappointments in love.
0:25:51 > 0:25:53# Play me
0:25:53 > 0:25:55# Play bollocks
0:25:55 > 0:25:57# Pay me
0:25:57 > 0:25:59# Pay bollocks
0:25:59 > 0:26:01# Contacts
0:26:01 > 0:26:03# Are bollocks
0:26:03 > 0:26:05# Contracts
0:26:05 > 0:26:07# They're bollocks
0:26:07 > 0:26:09# Success
0:26:09 > 0:26:11# It's bollocks
0:26:11 > 0:26:13# Botox
0:26:13 > 0:26:15# Your bollocks
0:26:15 > 0:26:19# Sex box, all bollocks
0:26:19 > 0:26:21# Fuck you, fuck off!... #
0:26:21 > 0:26:24Your dad was a boozer, wasn't he?
0:26:24 > 0:26:27My dad never drunk much. He didn't really like it.
0:26:27 > 0:26:31When he was young, it was whisky, and he quickly stopped that
0:26:31 > 0:26:35because he had to realise it was turning him.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38And us kids didn't like to see that.
0:26:38 > 0:26:40Turning him?
0:26:40 > 0:26:42Well, you know, the hitting of the mum kind of scenario.
0:26:42 > 0:26:43Oh, really?
0:26:43 > 0:26:47Yeah, and, so, he stopped, and he stopped really, really good,
0:26:47 > 0:26:49and he never drank the shorts ever again.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52- And he didn't like beer.- Right.
0:26:52 > 0:26:57So, he'd be in the pub with us, not liking beer but one in front of him.
0:26:57 > 0:27:00- Yeah. Oh, right.- Doing his shoom.
0:27:00 > 0:27:02# I'm working class
0:27:02 > 0:27:04# Me, right at the start
0:27:04 > 0:27:05# I'm horse and cart
0:27:05 > 0:27:07# Me, right in the heart
0:27:07 > 0:27:09# Fall to the floor
0:27:09 > 0:27:12# Beat, droop in the heat
0:27:12 > 0:27:14# I'm always complete
0:27:14 > 0:27:16# I come from the street #
0:27:18 > 0:27:21And that's about it, really.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24You've said that you regard yourself as lucky to have
0:27:24 > 0:27:27got as far as 60, is that because...?
0:27:27 > 0:27:30- Well, I'm past 60 now, so...- Yeah.
0:27:30 > 0:27:32- Well, you are 60, aren't you? - Improvements.- Yeah.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35Every day is an improvement, and here I am, like,
0:27:35 > 0:27:37suffering this horrible flu,
0:27:37 > 0:27:39and even that's a blessing, really.
0:27:39 > 0:27:40Why?
0:27:40 > 0:27:44I'd much prefer this than not be alive.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47It's the one greatest thing that's free.
0:27:49 > 0:27:50Make it last.
0:27:51 > 0:27:56Well, well done. And well done for keeping it up for 40 years.
0:27:56 > 0:27:57- 40 years, yeah.- Yeah.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00My God, you think I'd have learned something by now.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08# All people feel
0:28:11 > 0:28:14# All people have vision
0:28:17 > 0:28:19# No matter your colour
0:28:22 > 0:28:24# You are family to me
0:28:26 > 0:28:28# Now, put this all together
0:28:30 > 0:28:33# This is community
0:28:35 > 0:28:37# Even the other side of the planet
0:28:40 > 0:28:42# The other side of me
0:28:44 > 0:28:46# I'm here for you!
0:28:49 > 0:28:51# I am here for me... #