0:00:03 > 0:00:06Where does a unique artistic voice come from?
0:00:06 > 0:00:12Why do some books, performances and paintings move us when others don't?
0:00:12 > 0:00:16For me, it begins with a powerful connection to the unconscious.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20The unconscious can be a terrifying place,
0:00:20 > 0:00:24home to death and fear and anxiety.
0:00:24 > 0:00:29But you'll also find love, desire, creativity there.
0:00:29 > 0:00:33I believe that without a strong connection between the conscious
0:00:33 > 0:00:36and the unconscious minds, you can't make great art.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41Which brings us, rather surprisingly, to dressage.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Think of your conscious mind as the rider - rational, directed,
0:00:47 > 0:00:50concerned with the everyday.
0:00:50 > 0:00:54Your conscious mind gets you to work and pays the taxes.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57Your unconscious mind is the horse.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03Big, unruly and wild, the place of dreams and desires.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07When the two work together, the results can be breathtaking.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12In my Artsnight, I'm talking to artists from the world of
0:01:12 > 0:01:16literature, drama, dance and music,
0:01:16 > 0:01:21whose work perfectly demonstrates the power of the connected brain.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24I'll also be meeting a psychotherapist and
0:01:24 > 0:01:28a neuroscientist to discover how we can strengthen the connection
0:01:28 > 0:01:30to our own unconscious.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34So, lie back and let your living room sofa become the Freudian couch
0:01:34 > 0:01:38as we explore the mysteries of the creative brain.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40This is my Artsnight.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47The conscious mind.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50That is the sum total of all the things of which we are aware.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52It's quite a small part of the mind.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57But this is not the total amount of which we're capable.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01But much more interesting than this is what is beyond here.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05What is the unconscious?
0:02:05 > 0:02:07How do artists connect to it?
0:02:07 > 0:02:11By its definition, it's unknowable, the stuff of dreams,
0:02:11 > 0:02:14the part of our brain that governs most of our behaviour,
0:02:14 > 0:02:18but of which we're totally oblivious, unable to control.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23All around the outside area, if you like,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26of consciousness and memory
0:02:26 > 0:02:28there is a great deal more information,
0:02:28 > 0:02:34feeling, thought, past experience, drive and emotion of which
0:02:34 > 0:02:37we're not aware but which can help to influence us.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41An artist might not be aware of the connection,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44but when it's there, you see it straight away.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47It's a certain stillness or resonance,
0:02:47 > 0:02:49and my first two guests most definitely have it.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55Anne-Marie Duff is one of our most acclaimed actresses,
0:02:55 > 0:02:59with a career spanning over 20 years on stage and screen.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Denise Gough has, in the past 12 months,
0:03:04 > 0:03:07gone from unknown to West End star,
0:03:07 > 0:03:11thanks to a career-changing role as an addict in remission
0:03:11 > 0:03:13in the play People, Places And Things.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16We should say "penis" a lot, because we're in this room.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19Penis, penis, penis.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21Obviously I see a cock.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24Penises everywhere, look at them.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28It was the father of psychoanalysis, Sigmund Freud,
0:03:28 > 0:03:32who first defined and popularised the notion of the unconscious.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35So, I've invited them to join me at the psychoanalyst's chair
0:03:35 > 0:03:37for some analysis.
0:03:37 > 0:03:41So, we're here today in Freud's study to talk about
0:03:41 > 0:03:45the unconscious and how that affects performance.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48It's kind of extraordinary knowing that the couch is over there.
0:03:48 > 0:03:52Because Freud calcified a lot of things in the study of
0:03:52 > 0:03:56psychology, and so it had a massive effect on drama.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58So, for us two to be in this room, you know,
0:03:58 > 0:04:01makes perfect sense because the plays... There are, you know...
0:04:01 > 0:04:03You have a real sense of pre-Freud and post-Freud
0:04:03 > 0:04:04in terms of playwrights.
0:04:04 > 0:04:07Do you, even as an actor, you have that pre-Freud and post-Freud...?
0:04:07 > 0:04:10Yeah, we do, because of course we all speak Freud.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12- Don't we?- Of course, yeah.
0:04:12 > 0:04:15- It's become so much part of our culture as well.- Yeah.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18Do you think that in order to be a good actor you need to be
0:04:18 > 0:04:20connected to your unconscious?
0:04:20 > 0:04:21For me, the best actors,
0:04:21 > 0:04:24and the ones I have then met afterwards,
0:04:24 > 0:04:27they do seem to have a connection to themselves,
0:04:27 > 0:04:29and when I go to see things,
0:04:29 > 0:04:34I can feel if somebody's telling me the truth or not. So...
0:04:34 > 0:04:37- Telling the truth as opposed to acting the truth?- Yeah, I...
0:04:37 > 0:04:39There's a lot of performing that goes on,
0:04:39 > 0:04:42and a lot of that is taught, and a lot of that is fear.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44I see a lot of fear onstage.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47You know, people frightened to go to a place...
0:04:50 > 0:04:52..that, personally for me, you have to go to,
0:04:52 > 0:04:53you have to lay it all bare.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56My mother's gone to my flat.
0:04:57 > 0:05:00Boxed up everything - bottles, pills, everything.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02That's good.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05That's a very clear commitment to getting well.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09There was blood on the bathroom walls.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12She'll have seen that.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15There's this great quote, isn't there, by Nureyev where he says,
0:05:15 > 0:05:17"People don't come to watch us dance, they come to watch our fear."
0:05:17 > 0:05:19And I think that's a lot to do with it as well.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21What you do with your fear.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24And that's when it's really thrilling, isn't it, when
0:05:24 > 0:05:27either people button up or just tuck themselves neatly away
0:05:27 > 0:05:30or can't cope with being onstage or are...
0:05:30 > 0:05:33really bold and brave.
0:05:33 > 0:05:34So, it's an element of risk, in a way.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37It has to be about risk, and that's when it's sexy,
0:05:37 > 0:05:42and that's when you're uncomfortable or turned on or connecting as
0:05:42 > 0:05:44an audience member, isn't it? And I think that's it.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46It's the same with poetry.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49- You know, it's the same with... - It is the same with poetry.
0:05:49 > 0:05:55Every soul-level art-form, I think, really is about that,
0:05:55 > 0:05:57because it's the unspoken stuff.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59SHE SNARLS
0:05:59 > 0:06:03As an actress, Anne-Marie has never been afraid to take risks, with
0:06:03 > 0:06:07roles as varied as the ageing Queen Elizabeth I in The Virgin Queen,
0:06:07 > 0:06:10head of the Gallagher family in Paul Abbott's Shameless,
0:06:10 > 0:06:14and one of the great classical ballet dancers of all time,
0:06:14 > 0:06:16Margot Fonteyn, in TV biopic Margot.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21Does a good part or a good play change you?
0:06:21 > 0:06:23Does the process of doing it change you?
0:06:23 > 0:06:27I think it does, because you have to visit corners of yourself
0:06:27 > 0:06:31sometimes, in order to flesh out a character.
0:06:31 > 0:06:35If you are having to immerse yourself in some darkness, that can
0:06:35 > 0:06:38be quite difficult, because, after a while, you kind of say,
0:06:38 > 0:06:41"Well, I'm full up now. I am full to the brim now."
0:06:41 > 0:06:46But I suppose you still find... which is going to sound ridiculous
0:06:46 > 0:06:48to anyone who doesn't do what we do,
0:06:48 > 0:06:51but you sort of find a weird, screwed-up joy in that and say,
0:06:51 > 0:06:55"Yeah, but...but this is what you really wanted, you see?
0:06:55 > 0:06:57"Because you're really going there."
0:06:57 > 0:07:00- Yeah.- And that seems extremely vain,
0:07:00 > 0:07:03and I suppose there is a lot of narcissism in it, but...
0:07:03 > 0:07:06There is a lot of narcissism in saying,
0:07:06 > 0:07:08"This is my truth and you should hear it."
0:07:09 > 0:07:12You found it! God bless you!
0:07:13 > 0:07:14You bitch!
0:07:14 > 0:07:16It was Anne-Marie's powerful portrayal of
0:07:16 > 0:07:21a so-called fallen teenage girl in Peter Mullan's The Magdalene Sisters
0:07:21 > 0:07:24that first introduced her to a wider audience.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28You're a wicked bitch, you know that?!
0:07:28 > 0:07:29You're a wicked thieving bitch!
0:07:29 > 0:07:33She had Crispina's St Christopher under her bed!
0:07:33 > 0:07:38The only thing that girl owns in the whole world, and you took it!
0:07:38 > 0:07:40It was similarly dark material,
0:07:40 > 0:07:43portraying an addict in full breakdown, that announced
0:07:43 > 0:07:45Denise Gough as a major new talent,
0:07:45 > 0:07:48and won her this year's Olivier Award for Best Actress.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51I am!
0:07:51 > 0:07:54I am, I'm trying to get myself well.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57Telling a story about addiction and that kind of thing,
0:07:57 > 0:08:00if you're going to take on that, then you better be damn sure
0:08:00 > 0:08:03you research and you tell the truth about that.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06So, I spoke to everyone I could speak to.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09I had access to people at the Priory and psychiatrists,
0:08:09 > 0:08:14and then people who were in early recovery and who are still
0:08:14 > 0:08:16using and drinking, and I...
0:08:18 > 0:08:20I kind of checked in my performance with them.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24I know that the next time I drink or use, I know that'll be it.
0:08:27 > 0:08:28I'll be dead.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33I don't think I knew that until right now.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37Until I literally just said it, but it's true.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42It's going to kill me.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46Yeah, I need help. Please, help me.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49'The year before I did that play, I was out of work.'
0:08:49 > 0:08:52No work, no money. Cleaning jobs, like, looking after kids...
0:08:52 > 0:08:57I had...I was really, I thought, "Oh, my God. Maybe that's it."
0:08:57 > 0:09:01What it has done in the past few months for me is insane.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04Suddenly I'm invited to everything and it's all shiny, and...
0:09:04 > 0:09:06But, because of that year out of work,
0:09:06 > 0:09:09I'm just nicely careful of remembering...
0:09:10 > 0:09:12..what my world is really about.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15Listen to me. Listen to me for a second, OK?
0:09:15 > 0:09:18All right, please, this is important to me.
0:09:18 > 0:09:20I'm trying to do something, for once in my life,
0:09:20 > 0:09:23I'm trying to do something for myself.
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Is it possible to be truthful as an actor if you're not connected
0:09:27 > 0:09:29to your psyche, to your unconscious?
0:09:29 > 0:09:32The thing about it as well, in terms of truth...
0:09:32 > 0:09:35I think creative fields are very forgiving.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38And people are allowed to live their truths.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40They're very egalitarian.
0:09:40 > 0:09:45You're allowed to be gay, straight, black, white, common as you like...
0:09:45 > 0:09:48- Yeah.- And honourable.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51But we all exist within that work.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53And that world, you know.
0:09:53 > 0:09:59So, I think you can share your truth and it be a safe place to do that.
0:09:59 > 0:10:02Which is a great base camp for then storytelling.
0:10:02 > 0:10:03That's really interesting.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06So, in a way, what you're saying is that it's safe to write
0:10:06 > 0:10:09a book about being, you know, a gay transvestite,
0:10:09 > 0:10:14mad person in a way that you couldn't really do in real life,
0:10:14 > 0:10:19but you can plumb the depths of your unconscious
0:10:19 > 0:10:21and really put it out there.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23- That's the joy of storytelling.- Yes.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28Channelling the unconscious into storytelling
0:10:28 > 0:10:30is what I do for a living.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32But it took me a long time to get there.
0:10:32 > 0:10:37It wasn't until I was 47 that my first novel was published.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39You might be watching this, thinking,
0:10:39 > 0:10:42connecting to the unconscious is what artists do,
0:10:42 > 0:10:44near impossible for everyone else,
0:10:44 > 0:10:48but I passionately believe we can all do it.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50When I teach creative writing,
0:10:50 > 0:10:53I tell my students that anybody can do it,
0:10:53 > 0:10:57that really it's just a question of being willing to go into your psyche
0:10:57 > 0:10:59and pay attention to what's in there.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01And I get that pretty much from him.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07What I do to make it simpler is to do a drawing,
0:11:07 > 0:11:11and in this drawing I show a big oval
0:11:11 > 0:11:14that represents the unconscious.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18And a little circle next to it, which is the conscious mind.
0:11:18 > 0:11:24Now, here you find stuff like fear, death, anxiety...
0:11:25 > 0:11:27But there's also the good stuff.
0:11:27 > 0:11:32There's creativity and there's imagination and there's dreams.
0:11:32 > 0:11:34There's a bridge between the two of them,
0:11:34 > 0:11:36and it's a narrow little bridge,
0:11:36 > 0:11:40but the more you walk between the conscious mind,
0:11:40 > 0:11:43where you think about taxes and what to have for dinner,
0:11:43 > 0:11:46and the unconscious, which is the big thoughts,
0:11:46 > 0:11:49the more resonance you get in your everyday life.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52It's not easy, but it can be done,
0:11:52 > 0:11:54and really all it requires is practice.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02I want to put my theory to an expert in the field,
0:12:02 > 0:12:06so I've come to talk to Susie Orbach, one of the most respected
0:12:06 > 0:12:08'psychotherapists in Britain.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11'It's slightly daunting entering a shrink's office and asking
0:12:11 > 0:12:15'her to do the talking, but here goes.'
0:12:15 > 0:12:19I'm here to talk to you about the workings of the unconscious brain,
0:12:19 > 0:12:24and whether you think that there are ways that you can
0:12:24 > 0:12:29talk about the unconscious that help people unlock creativity.
0:12:29 > 0:12:33I think I'd probably come at it slightly differently, which is...
0:12:33 > 0:12:35I'm really interested in the things
0:12:35 > 0:12:38that make it hard for people to know what they're feeling.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40Mmm.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42People might be feeling...
0:12:43 > 0:12:47..very frightened, but actually what they feel is vulnerable,
0:12:47 > 0:12:51or they might be angry and what they're fearful of is...
0:12:53 > 0:12:54..intimacy.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57I think it touches what you're probably calling
0:12:57 > 0:12:59unconscious processes.
0:12:59 > 0:13:04We know from our dreams that we're all incredible dramatists
0:13:04 > 0:13:08and have the capacity to create things that we don't
0:13:08 > 0:13:10understand where they come from.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13So, I think it's creating a situation in which
0:13:13 > 0:13:18it's possible to let us be curious about our own imagination.
0:13:18 > 0:13:21- I talk about "writer's magic". - Mm-hmm.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23People think writers are magic people because we can do
0:13:23 > 0:13:24things like say,
0:13:24 > 0:13:28- "Well, my character wanted to do this."- Mm-hmm.
0:13:28 > 0:13:31I go to great lengths to explain to people that it's not magic,
0:13:31 > 0:13:35that what it is is it's allowing something to come to the surface.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39Well...the thing about being a creative,
0:13:39 > 0:13:43whether it's a writer, a painter, a composer, a physicist, is...
0:13:43 > 0:13:47There's a massive amount of learning and discipline, isn't there?
0:13:47 > 0:13:50And skill that gets developed,
0:13:50 > 0:13:53that allows you to surrender to another part of yourself.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58So, you have to be able to hear what's emerging.
0:13:58 > 0:14:04And what I tell students all the time is that all you have
0:14:04 > 0:14:07that differentiates you from the writer sitting next to you...
0:14:07 > 0:14:09maybe, might be talent,
0:14:09 > 0:14:13but really it's the nature of what's in your head.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16- Well, it's the "you" of you. - The "you" of you.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20And if there is no "you" of you in whatever you're working on, your
0:14:20 > 0:14:23painting, your book, your music, then there's...then it's dead.
0:14:23 > 0:14:27I think what can happen is that the "you" of you comes out in the work,
0:14:27 > 0:14:30and then you've got to catch up with the "you" of you in your life,
0:14:30 > 0:14:34and putting those two things together
0:14:34 > 0:14:37- is really quite interesting. - It is interesting.
0:14:37 > 0:14:41There are moments when you're writing where, suddenly, you
0:14:41 > 0:14:45don't even know where the writing's coming from, but it's there.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47And that's what feels like magic.
0:14:47 > 0:14:49Well, I'm not opposed to calling that magic.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52- I don't think it is magic. - No, it isn't, but I'm not...
0:14:52 > 0:14:56- What you're describing is that harmony.- Yeah.
0:14:56 > 0:15:00Again, I would use the word "surrender" because you're
0:15:00 > 0:15:05both actively producing, and yet not knowing that you're doing it.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10It's a very deep engagement.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16For me, this deep engagement with the unconscious is never
0:15:16 > 0:15:19clearer than when I see a really great dancer in full flow.
0:15:26 > 0:15:30When your brain and your body are very familiar with a sequence of
0:15:30 > 0:15:35choreography, you don't think ahead at all, and you're just right there,
0:15:35 > 0:15:39you do things that you didn't realise you were capable of.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41You enter into this sort of zone.
0:15:41 > 0:15:46Your mind really focuses, and suddenly you're, like,
0:15:46 > 0:15:48pouring with sweat.
0:15:48 > 0:15:52Edward Watson is principal dancer with the Royal Ballet,
0:15:52 > 0:15:55and has a reputation for capturing emotional intensity.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58He's currently working on a new collaboration with
0:15:58 > 0:16:01renowned choreographer Wayne McGregor.
0:16:01 > 0:16:03Yeah, that's it.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06That's nice, and then when you get to here, it's just...
0:16:06 > 0:16:08It's a funny thing that happens when you're just
0:16:08 > 0:16:13so concentrated on trying to pick up what somebody's asking you to do.
0:16:13 > 0:16:15You're trying to interpret their vision.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17There's a point where it feels like
0:16:17 > 0:16:21it's just the two of your brains kind of working together.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24There we are.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26It's not really a relaxed state,
0:16:26 > 0:16:30but it's a much more physically aware state.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33That intensity can be quite fragile.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37You feel like you're stretched to your limits quite often.
0:16:37 > 0:16:41It's sort of like a therapy to do it.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50I think you've sort of nailed it in ways, when you're conscious,
0:16:50 > 0:16:54the things that you're aware of, and the unconscious things which,
0:16:54 > 0:16:58when they come together and there's sort of this unknown joining
0:16:58 > 0:16:59of those two things.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05It is a little bit spiritual.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08That feeling of...
0:17:08 > 0:17:11It's a little bit beyond your control,
0:17:11 > 0:17:14even though you are controlling it and doing it.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22At some point in our lives,
0:17:22 > 0:17:25we all will have experienced something like this feeling,
0:17:25 > 0:17:28where we're engaged with something creative and time seems
0:17:28 > 0:17:30altered somehow.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34Those moments of sudden insight, of being in the zone.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38But what's actually going on in the brain when this happens?
0:17:39 > 0:17:42I've invited neuroscientist Lewis Hou to join me
0:17:42 > 0:17:47at the point in my day when all my best ideas flow out of my brain.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50My morning walks with these guys.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53So, we've been talking to lots of different people about being
0:17:53 > 0:17:57in the creative zone, and what it means to be in the flow.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59What's the scientific take on that?
0:17:59 > 0:18:01Ooh. Um...
0:18:01 > 0:18:02I think...I mean,
0:18:02 > 0:18:06this idea of being in flow is a really interesting question
0:18:06 > 0:18:10from a science point of view, because it starts tapping into things like consciousness,
0:18:10 > 0:18:13you know, this kind of "in the zone," what is that?
0:18:13 > 0:18:16- Time seems to slow down but also sometimes be faster.- Yeah.
0:18:16 > 0:18:20And there have been a few really interesting studies looking at jazz
0:18:20 > 0:18:24musicians, putting them in an FMRI, so a functional MRI scanner,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27playing something they've practised before, so they've pre-learned,
0:18:27 > 0:18:31and then comparing that with something when they are improvising.
0:18:31 > 0:18:36And we see some really interesting changes in this kind of network,
0:18:36 > 0:18:40- creativity network or...- So, it actually looks different?- It does.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43When you're playing something you know and when you're improvising?
0:18:43 > 0:18:47Exactly, and what seems to be happening is that there's
0:18:47 > 0:18:50a part of the brain called the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex,
0:18:50 > 0:18:54so it's kind of...maybe up here, next to your temple.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57And, in fact, this is the part of the brain which seems to be
0:18:57 > 0:19:01really involved in social inhibition and, you know,
0:19:01 > 0:19:02it's the kind of part that really...
0:19:02 > 0:19:05- Doing the right thing.- Doing the right thing. The regulator.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07It develops over adolescence.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10But there seems to be a temporary disabling of that part of the brain,
0:19:10 > 0:19:14and then actually there's other parts of the brain then actually become more active.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17What interests me about what you just said is that, if that's
0:19:17 > 0:19:20the part of the brain that develops during adolescence,
0:19:20 > 0:19:24that maybe, when people talk about creativity as being
0:19:24 > 0:19:28a child-like state, that you are kind of going back to the...to
0:19:28 > 0:19:32a state where you're less of an adult, you're less inhibited
0:19:32 > 0:19:35in your thought processes.
0:19:35 > 0:19:37I think that's definitely the truth.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42So, perhaps accessing the unconscious is less about
0:19:42 > 0:19:44pinning down the creative connection,
0:19:44 > 0:19:47and more to do with letting go of inhibitions,
0:19:47 > 0:19:50a release or trust in whatever comes flowing out.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56I'm travelling to Norwich to meet
0:19:56 > 0:19:59a writer who mastered this elusive connection aged just 27,
0:19:59 > 0:20:01but it took almost a decade
0:20:01 > 0:20:05to find a publisher brave enough to trust its power.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10You'll soon. You'll give her a name.
0:20:10 > 0:20:13In the stitches of her skin, she'll wear your say.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15Mammy me? Yes, you.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17Bounce the bed I'd say.
0:20:17 > 0:20:19I'd say that's what you did.
0:20:19 > 0:20:20Then lay you down.
0:20:20 > 0:20:22They cut you round.
0:20:22 > 0:20:24Wait and hour and day.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29Eimear McBride burst into the public's consciousness
0:20:29 > 0:20:33in 2013 with A Girl Is A Half-Formed Thing.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36It went on to win the Baileys Prize for Novel Of The Year,
0:20:36 > 0:20:38and became that rarest of things,
0:20:38 > 0:20:40a literary bestseller.
0:20:41 > 0:20:45The prose was stream of consciousness, almost pre-conscious,
0:20:45 > 0:20:49a coming-of-age story about a young woman coping with sexual
0:20:49 > 0:20:52abuse and her brother's terminal illness.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56The connection between your conscious and your unconscious mind seems particularly strong.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58Where does it come form?
0:20:58 > 0:21:02I had an idea about trying to write
0:21:02 > 0:21:05from a different kind of perspective,
0:21:05 > 0:21:11trying to capture that part of the consciousness which is unrecognised.
0:21:11 > 0:21:15So, it's almost like the step between consciousness
0:21:15 > 0:21:17and subconsciousness.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19It's the part of life that you experience,
0:21:19 > 0:21:24but the minute you try to verbalise, becomes degraded.
0:21:24 > 0:21:28That's how I felt when I was reading Girl Is A Half-Formed Thing,
0:21:28 > 0:21:34that it was things coming from a very dense and deep place.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36It was trying to capture all of that part of life,
0:21:36 > 0:21:40which is hugely significant to us all, it informs so much of
0:21:40 > 0:21:44how we live, of the decisions we make, of how we react to people,
0:21:44 > 0:21:46yet not in control of.
0:21:46 > 0:21:47When I started writing,
0:21:47 > 0:21:51I really didn't know what I was going to be writing about.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54I certainly didn't feel that I was in control of that process.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58Now, you say outside of yourself, I would say here,
0:21:58 > 0:22:00outside of your conscious mind.
0:22:00 > 0:22:01Yeah. Certainly.
0:22:01 > 0:22:06I dream of creeping under. I dream of underground
0:22:06 > 0:22:07where the warm earth is
0:22:07 > 0:22:09where the fire goes,
0:22:09 > 0:22:11where we're sleep creep
0:22:11 > 0:22:12you and me in holes.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Who's there? There's no-one.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17You and only me.
0:22:17 > 0:22:18We sing.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20We lilt our chamber.
0:22:20 > 0:22:21No-one coming.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24And we lie a thousand years of sleep.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28Both of your parents were psychiatric nurses.
0:22:28 > 0:22:34Presumably, an interest in the unconscious was in your...
0:22:34 > 0:22:35family?
0:22:35 > 0:22:38Growing up,
0:22:38 > 0:22:44there was never any taboo in talking about mental illness or
0:22:44 > 0:22:47mental ill health or learning difficulties.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50Those, you know, were sort of normal parts of our life.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53What about things like sex and death
0:22:53 > 0:22:55and the big things families don't talk about?
0:22:55 > 0:22:58I think, you know, in common with most Irish families,
0:22:58 > 0:23:02sex was not much on the menu as a topic of conversation,
0:23:02 > 0:23:06and death was frequently on the menu as a topic of conversation.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08- One of the favourites.- Yes.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10And I think this is a good thing about Irish culture,
0:23:10 > 0:23:15is that death is close to us, all the time.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17It sits on the surface of our lives,
0:23:17 > 0:23:20it's not something that's hidden or concealed,
0:23:20 > 0:23:24and I suppose part of the reason why I was so interested to write about
0:23:24 > 0:23:30female sexuality was because that is not something that I grew up hearing
0:23:30 > 0:23:35people speak about or knowing even how to speak about myself.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38There is no Jesus here these days,
0:23:38 > 0:23:41just Come all you fucking lads.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43I'll have you every one any day.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46Breakfast dinner lunch and tea.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49The human frame the human frame
0:23:49 > 0:23:51the human frame requires.
0:23:51 > 0:23:53Give them something.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55A good hawk spit for what it's worth.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58They'll say my name forever shame
0:23:58 > 0:24:01but do exactly what I say.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05Isn't there a parallel between coming of age sexually and
0:24:05 > 0:24:08- coming of age as a writer? - Yes, I think so.
0:24:08 > 0:24:12- Realising that I was allowed to be angry...- Yes.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14..as a writer, as a woman,
0:24:14 > 0:24:17and I could write about that in a brutal way,
0:24:17 > 0:24:21that I didn't have to make nice, that there were terrible things
0:24:21 > 0:24:24in the world and the best thing to do was to write about them terribly.
0:24:24 > 0:24:29Isn't it extraordinary how women feel they have to make nice?
0:24:29 > 0:24:33Because, for me, I was 46 years old and my agent said to me,
0:24:33 > 0:24:35"Don't worry about the rules of writing.
0:24:35 > 0:24:36"Write as fiercely as you can."
0:24:36 > 0:24:40And I thought at that moment, "This is the first time in my life
0:24:40 > 0:24:43"anybody has said do anything as fiercely as you can."
0:24:43 > 0:24:46There is tremendous, you know,
0:24:46 > 0:24:51ferocity and violence in women
0:24:51 > 0:24:54that is so untapped, that is
0:24:54 > 0:24:59so unspoken, that is so forbidden to us, even within ourselves.
0:24:59 > 0:25:05And it's hard. Hard to get to, but when we see it, it affects us.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08Now Eimear is poised to return with her second novel,
0:25:08 > 0:25:10The Lesser Bohemians,
0:25:10 > 0:25:15again tackling female sexuality but from a very different perspective.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18Could I grow up in a night? Grow up in this day?
0:25:18 > 0:25:21Curled here with him on his small bed,
0:25:21 > 0:25:26in the cradle of our arms and wrap of our legs watching him deep
0:25:26 > 0:25:28in his deep dream,
0:25:28 > 0:25:33far from the threat of what he's been while I lie here, in love.
0:25:33 > 0:25:37So much and sooner than I thought I'd be.
0:25:37 > 0:25:40Years off, I'd thought and not like this.
0:25:41 > 0:25:45But I have come into my kingdom where only pens and pencils were.
0:25:45 > 0:25:50It's about a relationship between an 18-year-old drama student
0:25:50 > 0:25:53and a 38-year-old actor.
0:25:53 > 0:25:57And it's about exploring the nature of love itself, I suppose.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00What I discovered is you can write a whole book about despair,
0:26:00 > 0:26:02and Lesser Bohemians is...
0:26:02 > 0:26:04I wanted to write a book about joy.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06You can't write a whole book about joy,
0:26:06 > 0:26:09but you can write quite a lot about joy.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11Love, sex, death...
0:26:11 > 0:26:13- Joy.- Yeah.
0:26:13 > 0:26:14That about covers...
0:26:14 > 0:26:18LAUGHTER ..the contents of the unconscious.
0:26:22 > 0:26:28HE PLAYS A SLOW MOURNFUL MELODY
0:26:42 > 0:26:44The final artist I want you to meet
0:26:44 > 0:26:48is one of the world's finest cellists.
0:26:48 > 0:26:52For Steven Isserlis, finding truth means not only connecting to his
0:26:52 > 0:26:56own psyche, but to the unconscious desires of the long dead.
0:27:01 > 0:27:05You have to look deeply into what the composer's written.
0:27:09 > 0:27:11You are trying to be sort of
0:27:11 > 0:27:14the vessel through which the music comes.
0:27:15 > 0:27:20And these are messages the composers are sending you across the ages.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22Through their music,
0:27:22 > 0:27:25they're telling you their deepest feelings and thoughts,
0:27:25 > 0:27:27and it's coming straight to you.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31You know, it's almost better than meeting them in the flesh.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35Speak to me.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41I think these instruments have souls.
0:27:41 > 0:27:42I mean, they're works of art to start with.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45Stradivarius made these incredible instruments, and then they
0:27:45 > 0:27:49live through these hundreds of years to get played by different players.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51Somehow, I feel it affects their soul.
0:27:56 > 0:27:59In our journey through the creative brain,
0:27:59 > 0:28:03we've heard artists define their connection to the unconscious as
0:28:03 > 0:28:04finding their truth,
0:28:04 > 0:28:06entering the zone,
0:28:06 > 0:28:07or surrendering.
0:28:08 > 0:28:11But they all boil down to the same thing -
0:28:11 > 0:28:13releasing your inhibitions,
0:28:13 > 0:28:15listening to your dreams,
0:28:15 > 0:28:20connecting to the part of ourselves we've learned to tuck neatly away.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23I passionately believe that anybody can do it.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25It was only 12 years ago that I wrote my first novel
0:28:25 > 0:28:28and started paying attention to what was on the inside of my head.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31Yeah, it's scary and sometimes it's really difficult,
0:28:31 > 0:28:35but the rewards are amazing, so why not give it a try?
0:28:35 > 0:28:37You never know where it might take you.