:00:00. > :00:12.to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne.
:00:13. > :00:21.We live in a moment of global crisis, great uncertainty and at
:00:22. > :00:25.such a moment you ask yourself, does contemporary art really matter? Of
:00:26. > :00:30.course it matters to me, not just because I am director of the Tait
:00:31. > :00:34.for 27 years but because in a way my life has been shaped by contact with
:00:35. > :00:39.artist, by contact with the work they have made. I understand the
:00:40. > :00:45.world as much richer place than I think I would have done if I had not
:00:46. > :00:48.been engaged in contemporary art. I can also understand why people ask
:00:49. > :00:50.the question and I can also understand what it feels like not to
:00:51. > :01:06.know. I can remember coming into this
:01:07. > :01:11.space in 1993 and in the centre were great turbine, water was dripping
:01:12. > :01:15.in, the place had been empty and unused for 15 years.
:01:16. > :01:20.In fact, there was an application in for it to be demolished.
:01:21. > :01:24.But to me, it just had incredible potential.
:01:25. > :01:28.In the last 15 year, we have seen some really memorable installations
:01:29. > :01:35.in this space. Works of art that enormously excited
:01:36. > :01:42.the public imagination. And yet we stand here, on the point
:01:43. > :01:45.of opening the new Tate modern, the extended Tate modern with many
:01:46. > :01:51.people still doubts that contemporary art really does matter.
:01:52. > :01:56.And I want to explore with some artist, I want to visit one or two
:01:57. > :01:59.places, where it seems to me contemporary art is thriving and
:02:00. > :02:09.really playing a valuable role in the community.
:02:10. > :02:14.We are passing through Huntingdon and getting close to Lincolnshire
:02:15. > :02:21.and it's rolling countryside. The trees are just budding into blossom.
:02:22. > :02:26.And it's a brilliant spring day. As we travel north.
:02:27. > :02:32.I am escaping London, heading to the town of Middlesbrough.
:02:33. > :02:36.We have had seven or eight years of constraint in central Government
:02:37. > :02:41.funding, and the cuts in Local Authority funding are really
:02:42. > :02:46.beginning to bite. What does it mean to have a contemporary art facility
:02:47. > :02:50.in the centre of a town that faces really serious social and economic
:02:51. > :02:59.challenge, what part can that museum play? What contribution can it make
:03:00. > :03:04.to life in Middlesbrough? In its heyday, Middlesbrough was a
:03:05. > :03:10.thriving steel and chemicals town with a bustling port. Today the loss
:03:11. > :03:15.of industry has led to high levels of unemployment. It has the highest
:03:16. > :03:19.levels of asylum seeking residents in the country. Art should work in
:03:20. > :03:24.every day life. I shouldn't be a special thing, it should permeate
:03:25. > :03:29.everything we do. Alistair Hudson spent ten years as a
:03:30. > :03:33.director at griez dale arts in Cumbria, pioneering efforts to make
:03:34. > :03:37.art that would be of value to the rural community. You shouldn't try
:03:38. > :03:41.and create Utopia, we shouldn't try and expect that we can remake the
:03:42. > :03:51.world anew, you should work with what you have got.
:03:52. > :03:58.How are you? Good to see you too. Mima, or the Middlesbrough institute
:03:59. > :04:02.of modern art opened in 2007. So Alistair, you have been here for
:04:03. > :04:06.about 18 month, so why come to Middlesbrough? In a way, most of the
:04:07. > :04:10.world is like Middlesbrough. Not many places are like London, New
:04:11. > :04:15.York or Paris, most of the world is like this. So in a way if we are
:04:16. > :04:18.going to find way for art to work in society, surely you should try it in
:04:19. > :04:23.ordinary places rather than extraordinary places.
:04:24. > :04:30.Mima has a collection of hundreds of works dating from 1900 to the
:04:31. > :04:34.present. Both fine art, and ceramics. The tradition of a gallery
:04:35. > :04:39.in its Victorian sense as you put the great art in the building, and
:04:40. > :04:44.you sort of encourage people to come and somehow they are better for it.
:04:45. > :04:49.You pay homage The collections become a tool in part of this bigger
:04:50. > :04:53.programme of social change. With a place like Mima, rather than
:04:54. > :04:58.try and follow what everyone is doing, really have this opportunity
:04:59. > :05:05.to experiment, and put Mima and Middlesbrough and Teesside on the
:05:06. > :05:09.map for doing something new. Unlike most sculptures these are a
:05:10. > :05:17.means to another end. They are made by a cocoa plantation
:05:18. > :05:24.workers in Africa. . The sculptures are made in the Congo on the
:05:25. > :05:28.plantation, from Congo river mud, and they are 3-D scanned and
:05:29. > :05:34.exported to Amsterdam, they are printed and then they are cast in
:05:35. > :05:37.solid chocolate, chocolate from the plantation, sponsored by one of the
:05:38. > :05:41.largest chocolate manufacturers in the world and these sculptures are
:05:42. > :05:46.sold through the art market, through museums like this, and we are trying
:05:47. > :05:50.to acquire this sculpture for our collection and the money from the
:05:51. > :05:56.sales goes back to the community. To bring in a sustainable income,
:05:57. > :05:58.for the community but also to fund sustainable agricultural projects
:05:59. > :06:02.and community projects in the village. The art really is more than
:06:03. > :06:06.an exhibition, the art is using the exhibition the museum as a vehicle,
:06:07. > :06:13.but the real project is the process, in a way this exhibition is the
:06:14. > :06:16.beginning of a relationship with Martin's, the initiating artist
:06:17. > :06:19.where we can begin to development projects here in Middlesbrough or
:06:20. > :06:24.relate some of the issues we have here, with the decline of
:06:25. > :06:28.manufacturing, with issues Roundhousing, migration, and we can
:06:29. > :06:32.start to make that part of a wider conversation through other projects.
:06:33. > :06:36.Middlesbrough does not have Congolese mud to make sculpture, but
:06:37. > :06:40.it is rich in clay, which was once the basis of a thriving local
:06:41. > :06:46.ceramics industry. We are looking to restart this
:06:47. > :06:53.industry and we are working with Emily and James. We are in
:06:54. > :07:00.Middlesbrough. You looking for Middlesbrough clay.
:07:01. > :07:06.This is a workable clay body and one that we make ceramics with.
:07:07. > :07:12.They set up a workshop teaching people how to make ceramic, to
:07:13. > :07:16.create a social enterprise that creates an economy, and also creates
:07:17. > :07:22.a sense of community through the things we make.
:07:23. > :07:25.Museums are one of the few places in society where the public now
:07:26. > :07:29.congregate, where they can meet each other, where they can have shared
:07:30. > :07:32.experiences and I wonder how you are thinking of a dancing the building
:07:33. > :07:37.and developing the potential of this building? So what I wanted to do, is
:07:38. > :07:41.not to do away with the art or the collections but to change the
:07:42. > :07:46.emphasis or rebalance the institution, so that in effect our
:07:47. > :07:51.main programme is the education, the community work, the cafe, the public
:07:52. > :08:03.programmes, and the collections and the Galleries service that agenda.
:08:04. > :08:10.Another regular users of the building is Street Wise Opera they
:08:11. > :08:13.use people that, this is their space, they come every Friday, they,
:08:14. > :08:18.where they rehearse, this is a charity that is really working with
:08:19. > :08:19.people who have experienced homelessness or dealing with issues
:08:20. > :08:39.round it. Joanne that lives in Middlesbrough
:08:40. > :08:45.and performs with Street Wise Opera. The public can't get access to the
:08:46. > :08:50.likes of this, so it's a privilege to get into somewhere like this. Her
:08:51. > :08:56.encounter with Mima led to a job at the museum and privileged access to
:08:57. > :09:02.its diverse permanent collection. Though its collection is less
:09:03. > :09:04.central to Mima's new service, it still contains works which can
:09:05. > :09:10.inspire. When I first came in here, I had a
:09:11. > :09:15.look round, I wasn't too interested in most of the pictures, but there
:09:16. > :09:21.was one actually that I actually did like and it is this one, the Lowry
:09:22. > :09:24.painting. What drew you to it? It makes me feel like everything's
:09:25. > :09:29.happened there, is happening again now. I mean the woman here, she
:09:30. > :09:35.looks like she is looking for somewhere to live. These are really
:09:36. > :09:40.strange dogs here They look like they need something to eat. That
:09:41. > :09:43.looks to me like a homeless man, doesn't know where he is. Likely. A
:09:44. > :09:48.lot of the paintings in here, I think that is what they do. They
:09:49. > :09:54.capture the artist's emotions and rather than them hold them in, they
:09:55. > :10:01.let them out on canvas. And I think that is why that one
:10:02. > :10:05.more so than any drew me in. I think I is amazing you see things this
:10:06. > :10:11.this painting I would not have seen, Jo. Partly because of your
:10:12. > :10:14.experience but I think you see it as very contemporary image as well as
:10:15. > :10:18.being from 70 years ago. That is one of the great things about art, isn't
:10:19. > :10:23.it. We all experience it in different ways, according to our own
:10:24. > :10:27.history and our own... That's it. Experience of life. You probably see
:10:28. > :10:31.something more, or different to what I see in the picture. Probably, I
:10:32. > :10:42.will think of this painting as being part of your private collection and
:10:43. > :10:48.you have kindly lent it to Mima. An enterprising community group
:10:49. > :10:53.called IPC, investing In People and Culture has has tapped into the
:10:54. > :10:58.agricultural skills of migrants and asylum-seekers, they have prepared a
:10:59. > :11:04.special lunch for me, it was formed by a man who works in partnership
:11:05. > :11:10.with Mima. They supply the museum with locally grown food for special
:11:11. > :11:15.events. The food today that we can supply to Mima, and some of the
:11:16. > :11:22.ingredients in particular, the garlic is harvested that we made
:11:23. > :11:29.last year. I came from Eritrea, back in early 2001. As a refugee, as an
:11:30. > :11:37.asylum seeker, I was a political prisoner for just over three months,
:11:38. > :11:42.before fleeing the country, as a political prisoner, for simply
:11:43. > :11:48.expressing my point of view in politics, and it put me in great
:11:49. > :11:52.danger. We have in Middlesbrough a thousand asylum-seeker, good
:11:53. > :11:56.proportion of those are because they have expressed their political view.
:11:57. > :12:00.Why do you want to be associated with something which is perhaps by
:12:01. > :12:06.other people seen as a testimoniable of the arts We thought... Joining us
:12:07. > :12:11.is the former mayor and ex policeman Ray Mallon.
:12:12. > :12:17.He pushed for ten years to get Mima built. To be fair to the Government
:12:18. > :12:20.they have so many conflicting priorities can I forgive them for
:12:21. > :12:26.for getting about the art, if you went to the Government what is your
:12:27. > :12:28.biggest priorities they would be saying public borrowing, the
:12:29. > :12:34.themselves building one million houses, terrorism and so on and so
:12:35. > :12:40.forth. And art might be number 20, 25. Mima was a key ingredient in his
:12:41. > :12:48.plan for the economic regeneration of the town. Out of the many
:12:49. > :12:52.organisations that art supposedly to be public service, Mima opens its
:12:53. > :12:57.doors and welcomes people to use it, for everyone to hold their meetings,
:12:58. > :13:03.to see films, just to be able to get in, makes you as a newcomer, that
:13:04. > :13:08.you are part of the town. This is in the Civic Centre of Middlesbrough,
:13:09. > :13:14.of Teesside. In a way this is a shared resource for everybody to
:13:15. > :13:15.use. And I think that is particularly unique about buildings
:13:16. > :13:20.like this. Middlesbrough raises a host
:13:21. > :13:23.of questions about the role of government and the relationship
:13:24. > :13:25.between public money Who better to ask than the man
:13:26. > :13:30.who holds the UK purse strings? You said in the Autumn Statement
:13:31. > :13:35.that we are brilliant at culture in this country and that investment
:13:36. > :13:38.in the arts is one of the best And I think I from an early age
:13:39. > :13:51.was lucky enough to appreciate all that Britain has to offer
:13:52. > :13:55.the world in terms of its theatre, its painting and sculpture,
:13:56. > :13:57.its film production. There is something
:13:58. > :14:00.about the British. We are a bit irreverent
:14:01. > :14:10.of authority. And that has led to some brilliant
:14:11. > :14:15.art over many, many centuries. I've been in Middlesbrough recently
:14:16. > :14:19.and obviously you go to a place like Middlesbrough, which is facing
:14:20. > :14:22.really serious economic pressures and you meet people who are having
:14:23. > :14:27.to make choices between spending money on social services or spending
:14:28. > :14:29.any money on the arts. Every area has to make its own
:14:30. > :14:38.choices, but what I have tried to do is provide government support
:14:39. > :14:41.to local areas that have got When you are meeting local
:14:42. > :14:45.politicians who are having to make these choices, what can
:14:46. > :14:52.you do to encourage them? You are not suddenly going to find
:14:53. > :14:54.additional central Some areas have been very smart
:14:55. > :14:59.about using a big contemporary art space or a new museum as the sort
:15:00. > :15:02.of centrepoint of the redevelopment If you let local areas keep
:15:03. > :15:07.the taxes they generate locally as we are increasingly
:15:08. > :15:14.doing in this country, they can see that direct benefit
:15:15. > :15:19.for their communities. But Mima, some of the
:15:20. > :15:21.projects they are doing are seen as in some way filling
:15:22. > :15:25.the gaps, gaps that have been left Do you think the arts should have
:15:26. > :15:29.to justify itself in those terms? Well, I think it is a mistake
:15:30. > :15:32.to assume the state What often art can do is fill
:15:33. > :15:37.in the spaces, the gaps, It's the mixture of the artist,
:15:38. > :15:45.the art institute, as well as the school and social
:15:46. > :15:48.services or whatever that creates You think that contemporary art can
:15:49. > :15:55.do more than simply bring As Chancellor of the Exchequer I
:15:56. > :16:02.quite often get people like you coming into my office
:16:03. > :16:05.and saying, this is a good economic And yes, of course,
:16:06. > :16:08.there is a strong economic But there is also art
:16:09. > :16:12.for art's sake and I, as someone who has grown up in this
:16:13. > :16:15.country and appreciated the arts in this country,
:16:16. > :16:17.thinks that's the most I'm no good at drawing or playing
:16:18. > :16:21.a musical instrument. But the experience of at least
:16:22. > :16:24.having tried to do those things In a New York City lobby,
:16:25. > :16:36.near Rockefeller Center, is a two-panel installation created
:16:37. > :16:38.by Mark Bradford, His epic scale paintings,
:16:39. > :16:46.which hover at the edge of abstraction, are often built up
:16:47. > :16:48.from dense layers of paper fragments taken from street
:16:49. > :16:57.ads and billboards. The LA neighbourhood where Bradford
:16:58. > :17:02.grew up and currently has his studio was partially burned
:17:03. > :17:08.down by protest in 1992, when white police officers
:17:09. > :17:10.were acquitted of beating a black Some of the goals that Mima
:17:11. > :17:20.is attempting to accomplish as an institution, Mark Bradford
:17:21. > :17:22.is pursuing as an individual. In LA in 1992, so many buildings
:17:23. > :17:26.were burnt out and they put up There was so much paper, I think
:17:27. > :17:31.that is why I started using it. You could just go and pull down
:17:32. > :17:38.blocks and blocks and It was like a free department
:17:39. > :17:43.store of materials. He has recently been chosen
:17:44. > :17:46.to represent America at the 2017 The social fabric in South Central
:17:47. > :17:58.in the early '90s was obviously enormously influenced
:17:59. > :18:00.by what happened in '92 So how did those dramatic eruptions
:18:01. > :18:11.manifest themselves in your work? And the memory of that,
:18:12. > :18:21.how they manifest in my So that the crisis would not
:18:22. > :18:38.overtake me as an artist. I would look for a detail that was
:18:39. > :18:45.loaded enough that I could point, but not so loaded I could not also
:18:46. > :18:49.talk about abstract painting. The painting scorched earth from 2006
:18:50. > :19:08.reflects a city torn apart by racial violence. When we say South Central
:19:09. > :19:16.now it has a -- an area that was constructive around hip-hop. This
:19:17. > :19:22.film depicts the dominant stereotype of life in South Central LA in the
:19:23. > :19:27.1980s and 90s. I realised there was so much language and rhetoric and
:19:28. > :19:32.narrative and stereotypes around the idea of south-central that how was I
:19:33. > :19:36.going to navigate this space? I was not interested in a work that was a
:19:37. > :19:45.spokesman for any so I thought I would keep it as abstract artist who
:19:46. > :19:50.looks out. Many of the paintings made in the 2000s have a sense of
:19:51. > :19:55.almost an aerial view of the city, a sense of you being there, but also
:19:56. > :20:00.being slightly detached. Is that how you see your relationship with
:20:01. > :20:04.south-central? It is not how I see my relationship with south-central,
:20:05. > :20:09.but how I see my relationship with almost everything. Artists tend to
:20:10. > :20:13.be detached, standing on the fringe and observe things. Move close and
:20:14. > :20:18.moved back stock I have always been that way. I do not mind going into
:20:19. > :20:23.the middle of the burning house and standing in the street and looking
:20:24. > :20:28.at the burning house. No fire extinguisher? No. You always want
:20:29. > :20:33.the house to burn! Bradford spent much of his time as a child in a
:20:34. > :20:37.beauty salon owned by his mother in South LA and also worked there as a
:20:38. > :20:43.hairdresser before and after attending art school in Los Angeles.
:20:44. > :20:54.I was trying to look for a conceptual framework that I could
:20:55. > :21:00.join the kind of social, the urban, with abstract painting. I thought,
:21:01. > :21:06.what if I use map is that have to do with civilisation? It is loaded. A
:21:07. > :21:14.map can be a loaded document. And start to break it apart, so that it
:21:15. > :21:19.becomes an abstract painting, yet the social fabric still clings to
:21:20. > :21:26.the edges. That was me starting from material that was social and pushing
:21:27. > :21:34.it into abstraction. When you make these paintings that start in this
:21:35. > :21:39.disadvantaged area of LA, they are almost heroic scale, and they are
:21:40. > :21:43.bought by people for increasingly large sums of money, how do you feel
:21:44. > :21:50.about those paintings coming out of that part of LA and hanging in a
:21:51. > :21:53.great Manhattan apartment? That part you have less control over and it is
:21:54. > :22:00.no use obsessing over it. You can have conversations about
:22:01. > :22:04.theoretically, aesthetically and politically what is important to you
:22:05. > :22:09.but I control what I can control, which is in the studio. I am
:22:10. > :22:13.happiest in the studio because that I can control. What has come out of
:22:14. > :22:21.the studio has made me actually successful monetarily. Works by Mark
:22:22. > :22:25.Bradford are in great demand in the art market. Recently one of his
:22:26. > :22:31.paintings sold at auction for close to $4 million. On the back of his
:22:32. > :22:39.art world success, Bradford has established a foundation called art
:22:40. > :22:43.and practice. Its 20,000 square feet of space in south-central is used in
:22:44. > :22:49.part as an exhibition space for contemporary Art in the community.
:22:50. > :22:54.The local community actually has access to contemporary art and ideas
:22:55. > :22:59.in their community on the way to the store, the cleaners, on their way to
:23:00. > :23:05.church, they can stop in and see contemporary art. It becomes the
:23:06. > :23:09.everyday? Not something unusual? Not something unusual and something they
:23:10. > :23:15.have to go out of the community and they have to whisper when they are
:23:16. > :23:21.in the museum. Bradford is also allowing an entire building to be
:23:22. > :23:26.used rent-free by the Right way foundation, a nonprofit group that
:23:27. > :23:31.provides councillor and support for youths in the south-central area.
:23:32. > :23:42.These are disenfranchised people with no families. So I want them to
:23:43. > :23:50.feel they are as special as possible because the crisis is so strong.
:23:51. > :23:55.Their lives are so delicate. That they can fall between the cracks and
:23:56. > :24:01.turn around and they are gone. Why did anyone think art could play a
:24:02. > :24:06.part in that process of healing, regeneration? Because I believe the
:24:07. > :24:11.contemporary ideas is what contemporary art, at the foundation
:24:12. > :24:16.of what we do. If you look at it through that lens, artists always
:24:17. > :24:21.talk about the times they live in and always question, provoke,
:24:22. > :24:34.pushing forward. It is a living animal, organism, to me,
:24:35. > :24:40.contemporary art. I think there are so many different kinds of
:24:41. > :24:46.contemporary art. What I think is so incredible about creativity is that
:24:47. > :24:56.it feeds into all our beings in ways that people perhaps overlook. In her
:24:57. > :25:05.Kent studio, Rose has been painting in relative obscurity for decades. I
:25:06. > :25:13.love this room. I really like it. I think the light is good. Now in her
:25:14. > :25:21.80s, her work is gaining international recognition. You just
:25:22. > :25:25.keep at it. And let it mount up. This in fact can be quite
:25:26. > :25:32.satisfactory because no one is criticising it, there are no
:25:33. > :25:41.demands. You get on exactly in the way you want to. I think that is
:25:42. > :25:45.probably a good way to do it rather than getting a lot of attention
:25:46. > :25:52.early on. After studying painting in the 50s, Rose took time out to raise
:25:53. > :26:01.a family but returned to painting in 1979. Her works may appear
:26:02. > :26:09.whimsical, bold, cartoonish, capturing the unaffected innocence
:26:10. > :26:16.of a child and speak to us directly. I like to present to the world the
:26:17. > :26:22.kind of painting that is considered not totally acceptable painting. Her
:26:23. > :26:34.sources of inspiration are varied. From art history to animals. From
:26:35. > :26:38.sport, to popular culture. A serious film buff, Rose Wylie has been
:26:39. > :26:44.inspired by the films of Quentin Tarantino. This is a wide shot. And
:26:45. > :26:54.a close-up from a film by George Clooney. They have an agenda, a
:26:55. > :26:58.contemporary agenda that could be political in order to have
:26:59. > :27:08.significance, because that is what is going on. I am not sure whether
:27:09. > :27:12.it is necessary to have that. People can have a straight emotional
:27:13. > :27:16.response to the work, that is what I would like, because I think that is
:27:17. > :27:20.what the painting is about. I do like to work with film stars and
:27:21. > :27:26.footballers, because I think there is a shared interest. It is
:27:27. > :27:36.democratising the whole thing. It is work we can engage with. One of the
:27:37. > :27:43.things that art does is to unify everybody. Rather than being sort of
:27:44. > :27:49.parochial pockets of interest, or cultural pockets of interest. It
:27:50. > :27:53.crosses the boundaries of nation. Certainly it is good for the
:27:54. > :27:56.development of the person. It can give you a reason, a purposeful
:27:57. > :28:22.life. -- purpose for life. Contemporary art has so much to say
:28:23. > :28:25.to us in many different forms. And with these large audiences and
:28:26. > :28:29.contested views and new ways of thinking about the world,
:28:30. > :28:40.contemporary art has never mattered more. I always have this dream when
:28:41. > :28:45.I leave the Tate I will work in a small institution, miles from
:28:46. > :28:51.London, caring for a fine collection, working very closely
:28:52. > :28:53.with artists, realising exhibitions, and, of course, dealing with a