0:00:03 > 0:00:05The Guildhall, Central London.
0:00:05 > 0:00:08For one night every year, this chamber is packed with
0:00:08 > 0:00:12the great and the good of the literary world.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15And they come here for the announcement of an award.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18And the winner of the Man Booker Prize For Fiction...
0:00:18 > 0:00:19Is Marlon James.
0:00:20 > 0:00:22Julian Barnes.
0:00:23 > 0:00:24Hilary Mantel.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35In just a few days' time, we will know who has won
0:00:35 > 0:00:39the 2016 Man Booker Prize when it is announced here on this very stage.
0:00:39 > 0:00:41The big names haven't really made the cut this year.
0:00:41 > 0:00:45Instead, it's a kind of a genre-bending, intriguing mix of
0:00:45 > 0:00:48thrillers, short stories, historical novels,
0:00:48 > 0:00:51true crime and even a bit of comedy.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53In this episode of Artsnight,
0:00:53 > 0:00:56six novels and six authors will be brought to you by six
0:00:56 > 0:01:00reviewers introducing their pick of the shortlist.
0:01:01 > 0:01:06Sara Pascoe will be unwrapping a sick and twisted Christmas thriller.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10George the Poet interrogates race in modern America.
0:01:11 > 0:01:15I'll be pondering nine stories of modern masculinity.
0:01:15 > 0:01:19Mariella Frostrup analyses a toxic mother-daughter relationship.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Pianist Steven Osborne examines Chinese history filtered
0:01:24 > 0:01:27through the music of Bach.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29And Val McDermid will be investigating a triple
0:01:29 > 0:01:31murder in the Scottish Highlands.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36It may be the most wide-open race for years and frankly,
0:01:36 > 0:01:39I wouldn't like to place a bet but hopefully, by the end of this
0:01:39 > 0:01:41half hour, you'll have made your own mind up.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45Welcome to the 2016 Man Booker Prize shortlist.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57Our first novel is the only debut to make the cut.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02A deliciously warped festive thriller,
0:02:02 > 0:02:03Eileen by Ottessa Moshfegh.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08We searched long and hard to find someone sick enough to root
0:02:08 > 0:02:09for this novel.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12Step forward comedian Sara Pascoe.
0:02:14 > 0:02:18It was the week of Christmas 1964.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20The Christmas tree was twinkling.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24The presents were wrapped and ready.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27Happiness and joy were all around.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31That is, of course, unless you're Eileen Dunlop.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35She's the central character in Ottessa Moshfegh's debut novel.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37And, Eileen, herself, will tell you that she's not the most
0:02:37 > 0:02:39pleasant person.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43She shoplifts, she's morbid, she's sexually obsessed,
0:02:43 > 0:02:45she takes loads of laxatives and she touches herself a lot
0:02:45 > 0:02:48and smells her hands afterwards.
0:02:48 > 0:02:49I like her.
0:02:49 > 0:02:50She lives in a place in New England,
0:02:50 > 0:02:54a suburban town she refers to as X-Ville, and she doesn't like
0:02:54 > 0:02:58a lot about her life but everything is about to change.
0:02:59 > 0:03:04The snow is falling. The sense of doom is decidedly unfestive.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08As Eileen herself tells us, "I liked books about awful things.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12"Murder, illness, death."
0:03:12 > 0:03:15Eileen is creepy, perverse and unsettling.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19It's a psychological page-turner ramping up to the sickest
0:03:19 > 0:03:22Christmas Eve party in literary history.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24Merry Christmas.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28I think it's about time we meet
0:03:28 > 0:03:32the warped mind responsible, Ottessa Moshfegh.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36Hello. We have created an Eileen Christmas here.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41Yeah, I was wondering why you had the Christmas tree behind you
0:03:41 > 0:03:43in October.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46So there is a huge market at the moment for
0:03:46 > 0:03:49psychological thrillers, unreliable narrators
0:03:49 > 0:03:52and especially, kind of, antihero female characters.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55But your novel seems to also turn that genre on its head
0:03:55 > 0:03:56and take it to a new place.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58Was that intentional?
0:03:58 > 0:04:02I don't think I could have written a straight genre novel.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04- I wouldn't have had that in me. - Yeah.
0:04:04 > 0:04:05- It would never be convincing.- Yeah.
0:04:05 > 0:04:11My intention was to tell this weird story, unveiling
0:04:11 > 0:04:16a couple of things that don't usually get unveiled in commercial
0:04:16 > 0:04:22fiction and I used the psychological thriller noir style
0:04:22 > 0:04:24because I thought that that would attract the readers,
0:04:24 > 0:04:26and I like that world, I like operating in that world.
0:04:28 > 0:04:30I hated almost everything.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33I was very unhappy and angry all the time.
0:04:34 > 0:04:38I tried to control myself and that only made me more awkward,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41unhappier and angrier.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43There's no better way to say it.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46I was not myself back then.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50I was someone else. I was Eileen.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53Some people have described the character of Eileen as kind of
0:04:53 > 0:04:57very crude or repulsive which I didn't personally find.
0:04:57 > 0:05:00To me, she just seemed like a woman. But what do you think about that?
0:05:00 > 0:05:05Eileen, as a character, is certainly not unusual in everyday life.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07Maybe she's unusual in literature.
0:05:07 > 0:05:13We don't get to see a self-loathing female character as intimately
0:05:13 > 0:05:17as we do Eileen in many places.
0:05:18 > 0:05:23With the laxatives, my movements were torrential. Oceanic.
0:05:23 > 0:05:28As though all of my insides had melted and were now gushing out,
0:05:28 > 0:05:31a sludge that stank distinctly of chemicals.
0:05:31 > 0:05:37In those cases, I stood up to flush, dizzy and sweaty and cold.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41Then laid down as the world seemed to revolve around me.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43Those were good times.
0:05:44 > 0:05:45Was it always set at Christmas?
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Was there something about Christmas that really attracted you?
0:05:48 > 0:05:53Well, Christmas is sort of the epitome of family trauma
0:05:53 > 0:05:58- dressed up as idyllic, cosy fun time.- OK.
0:05:58 > 0:06:05And Eileen is so much a story of how...what things look like on
0:06:05 > 0:06:09- the outside can betray what they are on the inside.- Yeah.
0:06:09 > 0:06:13That was the kind of mysterious landscape I wanted for the book.
0:06:13 > 0:06:14Thank you. Fantastic.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17Congratulations on being on the shortlist. Happy Christmas.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29The next novel on the shortlist is a meditation
0:06:29 > 0:06:31on music's universal power.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41Madeleine Thien's Do Not Say We Have Nothing.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46An epic story of 20th century China and how music allowed
0:06:46 > 0:06:50generations of two families to find their voice.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55And it resonated deeply with acclaimed pianist Steven Osborne.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01Why do we make music?
0:07:01 > 0:07:05What can music communicate that words cannot?
0:07:05 > 0:07:09Madeleine Thien's compelling novel takes these questions
0:07:09 > 0:07:12and threads through the brutal history of modern China.
0:07:15 > 0:07:18This is a big novel with big themes and ideas.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21It's a gripping saga which tells the story of two parallel
0:07:21 > 0:07:23families across three generations.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28The novel follows these families through the huge
0:07:28 > 0:07:30historical events of the Great Leap Forward,
0:07:30 > 0:07:34Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Tiananmen Square protests.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40And running through their intertwined stories,
0:07:40 > 0:07:43we hear the repeated refrain of Bach's Goldberg Variations.
0:07:45 > 0:07:49Why did you choose music as a way into this topic?
0:07:49 > 0:07:54One of the things I wanted to dwell on were the limitations
0:07:54 > 0:07:57of language, where things suddenly became inexpressible in language
0:07:57 > 0:08:03and music seemed the perfect art form to express those ideas.
0:08:03 > 0:08:08In the Bach Goldberg Variations, why this piece particularly?
0:08:08 > 0:08:09It spoke to me.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12The narrator in the novel, Marie, talks about a word in
0:08:12 > 0:08:17Chinese that brings together joy and sorrow simultaneously and I
0:08:17 > 0:08:20felt that often with the Goldberg Variations.
0:08:22 > 0:08:27It's... At once feels so extraordinarily simple some of it
0:08:27 > 0:08:30but it never loses this complexity of feeling.
0:08:32 > 0:08:37Bach's Goldberg Variation number 21 gave way to a joyous,
0:08:37 > 0:08:41bold and imperious number 22.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45Kai played as if he were juggling a dozen silver knives and all
0:08:45 > 0:08:47the edges flickered and shone.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50"Kai," she thought, "you are as lost as I am.
0:08:50 > 0:08:55"You have no idea where this beauty comes from and you know better
0:08:55 > 0:08:59"than to think that such clarity could come from your own heart."
0:09:02 > 0:09:06You're taking in a very broad sweep of China's history.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09Why did you want to write such a, you could say, such an epic?
0:09:09 > 0:09:12When I first started writing, I thought I was writing about
0:09:12 > 0:09:15something I remembered very vividly as a teenager
0:09:15 > 0:09:20which are the six weeks of protest in 1989 in Tiananmen Square.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24I just remember watching and just kind of being amazed at the courage.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30All these Beijing citizens of every age, from high school students
0:09:30 > 0:09:34to the elderly, came into the streets to stop the tanks and I
0:09:34 > 0:09:39began thinking about the people who were 40, 50, 60 years old.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42And so the centre of gravity has shifted to 1966
0:09:42 > 0:09:44and the Cultural Revolution, and how, on the surface,
0:09:44 > 0:09:46there's some interesting echoes.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51Both generations quoted the revolutionary ideology.
0:09:51 > 0:09:55Everyone involved really wanted to make a better, stronger China.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00It's just that the means of doing it led to another China.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05I no longer wish to live with restraints, Teacher.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08I wish to cast off the ordinary.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12The professor has come to fear the Revolution. I do not.
0:10:12 > 0:10:17I wish the awakening of our times to awaken me as well.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20We shouldn't be afraid of our own voices.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23The time has come to speak what's really in our minds.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28How much would you say that it's a hopeful book?
0:10:28 > 0:10:33On the one hand, it mourns the cyclical nature of history.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36They keep returning to the same catastrophe of wanting
0:10:36 > 0:10:38the better world
0:10:38 > 0:10:41and undermining ourselves.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44On the other hand, the ideas never die.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47And I think that's where the hope is and I think that's where
0:10:47 > 0:10:49Sparrow's music finds its hope...
0:10:49 > 0:10:53Is it never lets go of the desire to create.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08Now we come to the third book nominated from rising literary
0:11:08 > 0:11:09star David Szalay.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15And it's about something I feel vaguely qualified to talk about.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17Being a man.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20Although it doesn't paint the prettiest picture of my gender.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25"We're born alone,
0:11:25 > 0:11:26"we live alone,
0:11:26 > 0:11:28"we die alone,"
0:11:28 > 0:11:30so goes the Orson Welles quote
0:11:30 > 0:11:35and it pretty much sums up David Szalay's All That Man Is.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38The book is a meditation on modern masculinity told through
0:11:38 > 0:11:42nine men who hop around Europe with such frequency that one wonders if
0:11:42 > 0:11:45it could be written in the future after we have crashed into our
0:11:45 > 0:11:47oncoming hard Brexit.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50I say "book" rather than "novel" because there's a controversial
0:11:50 > 0:11:54question hanging around this nominee which is, can these nine different
0:11:54 > 0:11:59stories of seemingly unrelated men actually be called a novel?
0:12:01 > 0:12:04It begins with a young backpacker in Berlin and with each chapter,
0:12:04 > 0:12:07we're introduced to progressively older men,
0:12:07 > 0:12:11ending with the retired civil servant in Italy.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14The connections are in the men who span the ages of man
0:12:14 > 0:12:16but not the emotions.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19They are all faithless, disappointed, yearning,
0:12:19 > 0:12:21lost, travelling and alone.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23That's not to say that these characters aren't drawn
0:12:23 > 0:12:26with affection and humour.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28But it's a pretty bleak prognosis for masculinity,
0:12:28 > 0:12:31and I'm intrigued to meet the author responsible.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34- Can we begin by talking about the form of this book?- Yeah.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36Because I think it's a very interesting
0:12:36 > 0:12:38and possibly out-on-its-own form.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42Somewhere in between a short story connection and a novel.
0:12:42 > 0:12:43Is that something that you thought about,
0:12:43 > 0:12:46or is it something that just evolved as you were writing it?
0:12:46 > 0:12:49It was from the beginning conceived as a collection of stories,
0:12:49 > 0:12:52but a collection of stories that would form a single unit.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55I mean, I feel very strongly that the book isn't just
0:12:55 > 0:12:57a collection of stories, that it is a singular work.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01You are correct, it doesn't but it's... It is, I think,
0:13:01 > 0:13:04unusual to some extent, and this is a compliment.
0:13:04 > 0:13:07It seems to be the same story told again and again
0:13:07 > 0:13:10about the same man in different stages of his life.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12Would you agree with that?
0:13:12 > 0:13:14I would. In fact, I'm very happy to hear you say that
0:13:14 > 0:13:17because I really wanted there to be a sense that these,
0:13:17 > 0:13:19as you say, varied characters
0:13:19 > 0:13:22would create a sort of single composite protagonist.
0:13:22 > 0:13:26I mean, I hope it gives that some kind of universality.
0:13:28 > 0:13:29The kid smokes pot.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31That's not even a secret any more.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33His smokes it in his room at home.
0:13:33 > 0:13:35He still lives with his parents.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37He shows no sign of wanting to leave.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40His meals are made for him. His washing is done.
0:13:40 > 0:13:41And how old is he now?
0:13:41 > 0:13:43- 21?- 22?
0:13:43 > 0:13:45Unmanly is the word.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47He once tried to have a talk with him.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51He sat him down in a bar with a beer and said,
0:13:51 > 0:13:52"You got to grow up."
0:13:52 > 0:13:55And the boy just stared at him and said,
0:13:55 > 0:13:56"What do you mean?"
0:13:56 > 0:13:58And in so many words Clovis said,
0:13:58 > 0:14:00"You're a loser, mate."
0:14:02 > 0:14:06Their internal kernel of manliness is very similar.
0:14:06 > 0:14:07- They're all travelling.- Yeah.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10They're all hoping for something better in their travels and
0:14:10 > 0:14:11they're all, I would say, disappointed.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14I mean, sometimes they do achieve what they want to achieve.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16But then it turns out to be not quite what they actually want.
0:14:16 > 0:14:18That never leaves them entirely satisfied.
0:14:18 > 0:14:20There's always something else.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23I don't know you but there's a sense of which you get the sense of you
0:14:23 > 0:14:25throughout this book as this particular type of
0:14:25 > 0:14:27slightly depressive man.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30I hope you don't mind me saying.
0:14:30 > 0:14:31Well... I mean... Yeah.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34I'm not actually a depressive person,
0:14:34 > 0:14:38- and it's my books always come out a bit more depressive...- Right.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41..than I feel that I really am.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43I mean, obviously, writing a book about
0:14:43 > 0:14:48the unattainability of satisfaction is going to have it's bleak aspects.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51He started lately, in the last year or two,
0:14:51 > 0:14:53to have the depressing feeling
0:14:53 > 0:14:57that he's able to see all the way to the end of his life.
0:14:57 > 0:15:01That he already knows everything that is going to happen.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04That it is all now entirely predictable.
0:15:04 > 0:15:06How many more opportunities after this one
0:15:06 > 0:15:08will there be to escape that?
0:15:08 > 0:15:10Not many.
0:15:10 > 0:15:11Maybe none.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17We live at a time where Europe has suddenly become this burning issue.
0:15:17 > 0:15:19Is that something that you wanted to write about,
0:15:19 > 0:15:21because of that, or is it just part of the book?
0:15:21 > 0:15:24I wanted to write about travel in Europe and the fluidity of
0:15:24 > 0:15:26Europe and people moving around Europe because that is
0:15:26 > 0:15:29happening on an unprecedented scale.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32Now, I finished the book a year before the Brexit referendum
0:15:32 > 0:15:34so since I've finished the book,
0:15:34 > 0:15:37there have been these major developments
0:15:37 > 0:15:40which suggest significant political pushback
0:15:40 > 0:15:43against freedom of movement within Europe.
0:15:43 > 0:15:49So the book may turn out to reflect a kind of high watermark of that.
0:15:50 > 0:15:51I hope it doesn't.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56Our next book is also set in mainland Europe
0:15:56 > 0:15:58but tells a very different story.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02Deborah Levy's second Man Booker nominated novel, Hot Milk,
0:16:02 > 0:16:05revolves around a mother and daughter
0:16:05 > 0:16:08visiting the jellyfish-infested waters of southern Spain.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12Mariella Frostrup took the plunge into Levy's world.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19Like the recurring image of the medusa jellyfish at the heart
0:16:19 > 0:16:22of Hot Milk, Levy's writing is a thing of beauty,
0:16:22 > 0:16:26but an undercurrent of menace also runs deep in the narrative
0:16:26 > 0:16:28and delivers an undoubted sting.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33Hot Milk centres around 25-year-old Sophia
0:16:33 > 0:16:36and her wheelchair-bound mother Rose.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39The two have decamped to Almeria in southern Spain
0:16:39 > 0:16:41to attend a clinic in the hope of finding a cure
0:16:41 > 0:16:46for Rose's mysterious and potentially psychosomatic illness.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50The surreal sensory atmosphere and air of imminent threat are haunting.
0:16:50 > 0:16:55Yet, in this sun scorched and economically disadvantaged seascape,
0:16:55 > 0:16:58Sophia seemed to start finding her feet.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02In this follow-up to Levy's previously
0:17:02 > 0:17:04Man Booker-nominated novel Swimming Home
0:17:04 > 0:17:08she returns to familiar themes of water and exile
0:17:08 > 0:17:10as well as psychology, feminism
0:17:10 > 0:17:14and a particularly complex mother-daughter relationship.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17Deborah, it's no surprise that we're here on the waterfront.
0:17:17 > 0:17:19What is it about that particular element
0:17:19 > 0:17:21that makes you feel so at home?
0:17:21 > 0:17:25- Well, I'd rather be in this water... - I don't think so.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27..than sitting at the side.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30I feel happiest in water.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34I think it's the nearest I have to kind of meditating.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Well, I can see it as a therapeutic element for you,
0:17:37 > 0:17:39but what about for your heroines and anti-heroines?
0:17:39 > 0:17:43Because here we have Sophia in Hot Milk
0:17:43 > 0:17:45who spends her time in the ocean
0:17:45 > 0:17:49despite the epidemic of medusa jellyfish.
0:17:49 > 0:17:53I wanted to have a female character who is 25,
0:17:53 > 0:17:55who feels lost in her life.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58She feels small, she doesn't know where she's heading.
0:17:58 > 0:18:04When she goes into the sea and she gets stung by the jellyfish,
0:18:04 > 0:18:10it's as if those stings are helping her become less passive.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14So they're a good thing.
0:18:16 > 0:18:21The water became clearer and cleaner the further I swum out.
0:18:21 > 0:18:25I am far away from shore but not lost enough.
0:18:26 > 0:18:30I must return home, but I have nowhere to go that is my own.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34No work, no money, no lover to welcome me back.
0:18:35 > 0:18:39When I flipped over, I saw them in the water.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41The medusas.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45Slow and calm, delicate and dangerous.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51The toxic relationship between Sophia and her mother Rose
0:18:51 > 0:18:53is really at the heart of this book.
0:18:53 > 0:18:57Why did you want to tackle the very thorny relationship
0:18:57 > 0:18:59between mothers and daughters?
0:18:59 > 0:19:04I wanted to initially look at hypochondria.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08How Rose uses her illness, her apparent illness
0:19:08 > 0:19:13to control and manipulate and to gather love and attention to her.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17Then Sophia has an interest in her mother's symptoms
0:19:17 > 0:19:18and, in a way, that's her downfall.
0:19:18 > 0:19:23"What's wrong with mum? What is her body trying to say?"
0:19:26 > 0:19:29My own investigation has been in progress
0:19:29 > 0:19:31for about 20 of my 25 years.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33Perhaps longer.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37When I was four, I asked her what a headache meant.
0:19:37 > 0:19:43She told me it was like a door slamming in her head.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45I have become a good mind-reader
0:19:45 > 0:19:49which means her head is my head.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53There are plenty of doors slamming all the time.
0:19:53 > 0:19:55And I and the main witness.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00It's a strange relationship, isn't it?
0:20:00 > 0:20:04- Because it is also extremely loving. - Loving, yes, absolutely.
0:20:04 > 0:20:06So it's never one thing or the other.
0:20:06 > 0:20:10My point, in Hot Milk, in this relationship,
0:20:10 > 0:20:12is love is difficult and that's what makes it interesting
0:20:12 > 0:20:17and that's why...that's always the best position to write from.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30The next shortlisted novel comes from
0:20:30 > 0:20:32African-American writer Paul Beatty.
0:20:32 > 0:20:37This tale of modern slavery is a shockingly funny slice of satire.
0:20:37 > 0:20:39Or so the cover tells us.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43But long-time fan of the author, George the Poet,
0:20:43 > 0:20:46wonders whether readers should laugh...or cry.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52When I was 12, I read a book called The White Boy Shuffle.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55I had no context other than the blurb.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58The story followed a protagonist move into the ghetto
0:20:58 > 0:21:00as a black kid coming from the 'burbs.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03He reminded me of so many people I knew.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06So much so I couldn't even tell them apart.
0:21:06 > 0:21:07And I was intrigued.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11How could I find so much of my life in American art?
0:21:13 > 0:21:15The answer is the author's unflinching gaze,
0:21:15 > 0:21:19I'm convinced the lynching days were just a phase.
0:21:19 > 0:21:21Refusing to accept the illusion of progress,
0:21:21 > 0:21:25searching for the truth no matter how confusing the process.
0:21:27 > 0:21:33See, Britain, like America, often struggles with its difficult past.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35Leaving millions of kids like me to deal
0:21:35 > 0:21:38with each racist political charge.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42Humour is Paul Beatty's weapon of choice.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45It's his way of cutting through the deafening noise of race wars
0:21:45 > 0:21:49and class wars and race wars disguised as class wars
0:21:49 > 0:21:51establishing a definite voice.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55The Sellout is a powerful novel.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57It's story about a modern-day slave
0:21:57 > 0:21:59has seen it hailed as a great work of satire.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03But, to me, this account of contemporary black America
0:22:03 > 0:22:04felt more literal
0:22:04 > 0:22:08and I'm intrigued to find out what Beatty's intentions were.
0:22:08 > 0:22:10I took this quite literally
0:22:10 > 0:22:13but I found that a lot of commentary around your new book
0:22:13 > 0:22:15is describing it as a satire.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18- Yeah.- Is this an accurate term?
0:22:18 > 0:22:21One of the first readings I did for the book...
0:22:21 > 0:22:22A friend of a friend came up and said,
0:22:22 > 0:22:25"This isn't satire. This is reportage."
0:22:25 > 0:22:26I don't think of it as satire.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29I just think of it... It's just what I wrote, you know.
0:22:29 > 0:22:31And somebody the other day asked me about...
0:22:31 > 0:22:33if I thought the book was funny
0:22:33 > 0:22:36and I was, like, "Yes, some days I do, some days I don't."
0:22:36 > 0:22:39But I don't think that makes the book any less evocative, hopefully.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45That's the bitch of it, to be on trial for my life
0:22:45 > 0:22:48and for the first time ever not feel guilty.
0:22:48 > 0:22:52That omnipresent guilt that's as black as fast food apple pie
0:22:52 > 0:22:54and prison basketball has finally gone.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57I'm no longer party to that collective guilt that keeps
0:22:57 > 0:23:00the administrative secretary, the stock clerk,
0:23:00 > 0:23:03the "not really all that attractive but she's black" beauty pageant
0:23:03 > 0:23:05winner from showing up for work Monday morning
0:23:05 > 0:23:08- and shooting every white- BLEEP - in the place.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12What do you find real in the book? I'm just really curious.
0:23:12 > 0:23:17You talk about not being allowed to experience blackness
0:23:17 > 0:23:20outside of the prescribed norm.
0:23:20 > 0:23:22That's something that really resonated with me.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25It's interesting to hear you talk about what feels real to you
0:23:25 > 0:23:26about the book.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30You know, cos I think the perceptions in there are very real.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33I mean, the book is a discussion about have things changed
0:23:33 > 0:23:34or how haven't they changed.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36I don't have an answer to that, you know.
0:23:36 > 0:23:40And, I think, for him, he's, like,
0:23:40 > 0:23:43"Yeah, shit's changed but shit's exactly the same..."
0:23:43 > 0:23:45You know, "..for so many people."
0:23:45 > 0:23:47- Hands up.- CROWD:- Don't shoot.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49I don't feel responsible any more.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52I understand now that the only time black people don't feel guilty
0:23:52 > 0:23:55is when we've actually done something wrong.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57Because that relieves us of the cognitive dissonance
0:23:57 > 0:23:59of being black and innocent.
0:23:59 > 0:24:02And, in a way, the prospect of going to jail becomes a relief.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05In the way that voting Republican is a relief,
0:24:05 > 0:24:08marrying white is a relief, albeit a temporary one.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12Are you conscience of the kind of conversations
0:24:12 > 0:24:13that might start over here?
0:24:13 > 0:24:16- I have no idea. To be honest, you know.- Interesting.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19I hope it starts something. I don't know what necessarily.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21Something positive, hopefully.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24Well, I look forward to the conversations that's going to start.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26- George, thank you, man. - Pleasure was all mine, Paul.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28Thank you very much for your time.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35Our final book this evening is His Bloody Project
0:24:35 > 0:24:37by Graeme Macrae Burnet.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40A historical crime novel investigating
0:24:40 > 0:24:42gruesome murders in the Highlands.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46And it caught the attention of Queen of Scottish crime writing,
0:24:46 > 0:24:47Val McDermid.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54My name is Roderick John Macrae.
0:24:54 > 0:24:58I was born in 1852 and have lived all my days
0:24:58 > 0:25:00in the village of Culduie in Ross-shire.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06It's 1869 and a triple murder has been committed.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10A man, a 15-year-old girl
0:25:10 > 0:25:14and a three-year-old child have been brutally slaughtered in their home.
0:25:14 > 0:25:18The close-knit rural crofting community are in shock.
0:25:18 > 0:25:21But the biggest mystery is why a previously mild-mannered
0:25:21 > 0:25:25Roderick Macrae would commit such a bloodthirsty atrocity.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28There was a wee bit of a buzz in Scottish crime writing circles
0:25:28 > 0:25:30about His Bloody Project when it first came out,
0:25:30 > 0:25:32and so I'd read it before it got onto the Booker longlist
0:25:32 > 0:25:35and I was delighted as well as surprised
0:25:35 > 0:25:36to find it on the shortlist.
0:25:36 > 0:25:40It has been described as a crime novel and I think that's a lazy
0:25:40 > 0:25:43categorisation but I understand why people have gone down that road.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46Yes, this book has a murder in it but it's also a literary novel.
0:25:46 > 0:25:50It intentionally and playfully blurs the line between fact and fiction,
0:25:50 > 0:25:52between meticulous research and fantasy
0:25:52 > 0:25:56and it's up to you, as the reader, to decide where you stand.
0:25:59 > 0:26:01This is only Graeme Macrae Burnet's second novel and it's been
0:26:01 > 0:26:05published by small Scottish independent publisher Sarabande.
0:26:05 > 0:26:07I'm meeting him in Glasgow's Mitchell library
0:26:07 > 0:26:11where Graeme spent 2015 researching and writing the novel
0:26:11 > 0:26:13that could turn him from a virtually unknown author
0:26:13 > 0:26:17to winner of the world's biggest literary awards.
0:26:17 > 0:26:20One of the things that's been making the headlines about this book
0:26:20 > 0:26:22making the shortlist is that it's been sort of immediately
0:26:22 > 0:26:25- slotted by the lazy critics as, "It's a crime novel."- Yes.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28Did you think of it as a crime novel when you were writing it?
0:26:28 > 0:26:31I think these categorisations aren't important when you're writing.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34You're just set out to write the book you're writing and
0:26:34 > 0:26:37people say, "Oh, it's a crime novel" or "Oh, it's not a crime novel."
0:26:37 > 0:26:40I call it a novel about a crime and my objective is I want
0:26:40 > 0:26:42the reader to be engaged with the characters.
0:26:42 > 0:26:46I want them, no matter what dark things Roddy Macrae does...
0:26:46 > 0:26:48I want them to root for Roddy.
0:26:48 > 0:26:52You know, and I want them to feel the pain of what he goes through.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55I shall begin by saying that I carried out these acts
0:26:55 > 0:26:58with the sole purpose of delivering my father from
0:26:58 > 0:27:01the tribulations he has lately suffered.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04Because of these tribulations was our neighbour Lachlan McKenzie
0:27:04 > 0:27:07and it was for the betterment of my family's lot
0:27:07 > 0:27:09that I've removed him from this world.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14I did various parts of the research here in the Mitchell.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16We've got these lovely maps here in the library
0:27:16 > 0:27:19and these go back through various 19th-century manifestations
0:27:19 > 0:27:22so you can actually pinpoint the cottages and stuff
0:27:22 > 0:27:23in each individual village.
0:27:23 > 0:27:27- You can literary follow Roddy's footsteps.- Yeah, absolutely.
0:27:27 > 0:27:31- And that really grounds it in that sense of reality.- Absolutely.
0:27:31 > 0:27:34And we've also got these amazing photographs from the period.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37You see these old houses with no windows.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40There's nothing romantic about this croft house. It's slum housing.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43And it debunks that kind of sentimental history
0:27:43 > 0:27:46we have absorbed, I think, here in Scotland.
0:27:46 > 0:27:48It was a Victorian invention.
0:27:48 > 0:27:53The idyll of the Highlands as a sort of peaceful wilderness
0:27:53 > 0:27:55but we know that the history of the Highlands
0:27:55 > 0:27:59is very dark and quite bloody at times.
0:27:59 > 0:28:00My objective was not merely
0:28:00 > 0:28:03to remove Lachlan Broad from this world.
0:28:03 > 0:28:07Rather at the moment of his death it was necessary that
0:28:07 > 0:28:11he was cognisant of the fact that it was I, Roderick Macrae,
0:28:11 > 0:28:13that was ending his life.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18One of the interesting things about your book is that you have
0:28:18 > 0:28:21not been published by a big mainstream publisher.
0:28:21 > 0:28:23How has that been for you now that
0:28:23 > 0:28:25you've hit the headlines with the shortlist?
0:28:25 > 0:28:29Before I was somewhere around 300,000 in Amazon.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33By the end of the day, when we were longlisted, we had hit number nine
0:28:33 > 0:28:36in the Amazon general chart so, I mean, it's a complete transformation
0:28:36 > 0:28:39for my fortunes and the fortunes of the book.
0:28:42 > 0:28:47And that brings us to the end of our round-up of this year's nominees.
0:28:47 > 0:28:50Six novels all vying to take their place in Man Booker history,
0:28:50 > 0:28:53and I genuinely cannot call it this year.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56But I would advise you to dip into at least two or three of these books
0:28:56 > 0:28:59because they are all authors who are experimenting with the form,
0:28:59 > 0:29:02who are pushing the boundaries of what a novel can be
0:29:02 > 0:29:05which is what this prize should always be rewarding.