0:00:02 > 0:00:03Good evening and welcome to Front Row.
0:00:03 > 0:00:06I'm Mary Beard, and tonight we're going to be exploring some
0:00:06 > 0:00:11of the modern conversations that we still have with the classical world.
0:00:12 > 0:00:14Coming up on the show,
0:00:14 > 0:00:18I'm at the Sir John Soane's Museum in London to find out how one
0:00:18 > 0:00:23artist is having fun bringing the ancient and modern worlds closer.
0:00:24 > 0:00:28We discuss why Medea, Euripides' tragedy about a woman who
0:00:28 > 0:00:34murders her children to avenge her betrayal, still resonates today.
0:00:34 > 0:00:38We ask what happens when a man takes the title role.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43Artist Nathan Coley talks to Japanese architect Kengo Kuma about
0:00:43 > 0:00:46how his design for the new Victoria
0:00:46 > 0:00:49and Albert Museum is taking shape in Dundee.
0:00:51 > 0:00:55And David Gilmour is in the studio to talk about his latest film,
0:00:55 > 0:00:58David Gilmour Live At Pompeii,
0:00:58 > 0:01:01and to perform a track from that incredible concert.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10Joining me in the studio to discuss all this
0:01:10 > 0:01:13and more are classicist Edith Hall,
0:01:13 > 0:01:18writer and poet Roz Kaveney and actor Kate Fleetwood.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20- Hello, good evening.- Good evening.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23First, we're going to see an exhibition in a very
0:01:23 > 0:01:25surprising place.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29Sir John Soane was one of Britain's
0:01:29 > 0:01:32most radical neoclassical architects.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36He's actually best known now for the tomb that he
0:01:36 > 0:01:42designed for himself, which was the inspiration for the design
0:01:42 > 0:01:45of the British red telephone box.
0:01:45 > 0:01:51But he was also an unstoppable collector, and he filled his
0:01:51 > 0:01:56house in Lincoln's Inn Field with a complete conglomeration of stuff.
0:01:57 > 0:02:02And when he died in 1837, he insisted that it should be
0:02:02 > 0:02:06left exactly as it was and opened to the public as a museum.
0:02:06 > 0:02:07I went there to take a look.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26When you walk into Soane's house,
0:02:26 > 0:02:29the first impression is one of utter chaos.
0:02:30 > 0:02:38It's an Aladdin's Cave full of real antiquities, copies of all sorts.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40They're all rubbing shoulders
0:02:40 > 0:02:42and there's hardly a museum label to be seen.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48Soane was, to put it kindly, a bit of a one-off.
0:02:50 > 0:02:51But he was also part of a long
0:02:51 > 0:02:54and rich tradition in which modern writers
0:02:54 > 0:03:00and artists have re-presented the ancient world to the modern
0:03:00 > 0:03:05in all kinds of different, creative and popular ways.
0:03:05 > 0:03:09We're most familiar with that from the tradition of film,
0:03:09 > 0:03:13from the extraordinary re-imagination of the glories
0:03:13 > 0:03:16of ancient Egypt in Cleopatra,
0:03:16 > 0:03:21to the recreation of the brutalities of the Coliseum in Gladiator.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32Giving the classical world a startlingly modern twist is
0:03:32 > 0:03:35young designer Adam Nathaniel Furman.
0:03:40 > 0:03:41His digitally created
0:03:41 > 0:03:45and 3D-printed city colourfully re-imagines the architecture
0:03:45 > 0:03:49of Rome, and is currently residing in John Soane's kitchen.
0:03:51 > 0:03:52Oh, blimey.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56This is a bit of a shock. Hello, Adam.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59Some people might come in here and say this was all pretty kitsch.
0:03:59 > 0:04:00What would you say to that?
0:04:00 > 0:04:02Absolutely, it is.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05I was in Rome for six months and I went on these epic,
0:04:05 > 0:04:10long walks, during which I saw countless,
0:04:10 > 0:04:12endless amounts of architecture from every century going
0:04:12 > 0:04:15back 2,000 years, and at the end of the day, we'd turn them
0:04:15 > 0:04:19into capriccios, which are little, intuitive drawings.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22They're not actually what I saw, but they're sort of imaginative
0:04:22 > 0:04:25combinations of everything I saw during the day.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28But then at the same time, I'd be doing quite complicated
0:04:28 > 0:04:31and detailed architectural designs based upon one building or
0:04:31 > 0:04:34one story that I'd discovered during the day.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36And these would then come together
0:04:36 > 0:04:39- and become one of these ceramic objects.- And why Rome?
0:04:39 > 0:04:41There's no place in the world where you walk down every street
0:04:41 > 0:04:45and there's pretty much every single architectural and artistic era
0:04:45 > 0:04:48and period from Western history just together.
0:04:48 > 0:04:49And it's part of the everyday?
0:04:49 > 0:04:50Yeah, no, I mean, you've got people...
0:04:50 > 0:04:53Like, you've got lovers kissing on top of fragments that
0:04:53 > 0:04:56here would be in the British Museum and you've got a gay nightclub,
0:04:56 > 0:05:00effectively, in a fantastic old Roman baths.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02You know, the life is just pulsing around it
0:05:02 > 0:05:04and it's just part of everyday life. I love it.
0:05:04 > 0:05:09And then you make them these slightly striking colours.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12I mean, what lies behind all this pink and yellow?
0:05:12 > 0:05:15I just find that when you use colour you really make people
0:05:15 > 0:05:18receive something in a totally different way.
0:05:18 > 0:05:21If this was all white they would see it as sort of more serious
0:05:21 > 0:05:24and academic, and I like to think of it as if I'm taking classical
0:05:24 > 0:05:28forms and existing architecture and I'm putting it in drag,
0:05:28 > 0:05:31I'm bringing it out for a party and people receive it that way.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35They respond to it in a much more fun and immediate manner.
0:05:35 > 0:05:39We do tend to admire Roman architecture, admire Roman art,
0:05:39 > 0:05:45and quite a lot of it was actually playful, a bit kitsch, a bit cheap.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48I think they might have loved this.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50I guess for me it's trying to say that history,
0:05:50 > 0:05:53it's not something we have to touch with white gloves.
0:05:53 > 0:05:54You don't have to be afraid of it.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57The past should be as instantly accessible as a dancing
0:05:57 > 0:06:00Chihuahua on YouTube. It should belong to all of us.
0:06:00 > 0:06:04So this is both Rome and not Rome.
0:06:04 > 0:06:08It's the kind of souvenir... souvenir we can take home,
0:06:08 > 0:06:10- the souvenir of YOUR visit. - Exactly.
0:06:10 > 0:06:12In the end,
0:06:12 > 0:06:14we can drink out of it.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17It's your own souvenir that you can actually walk away with.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22Adam Nathaniel Furman, The Roman Singularity
0:06:22 > 0:06:25is on at the Sir John Soane's Museum in London
0:06:25 > 0:06:27until the 10th of December.
0:06:27 > 0:06:32Now, nobody could ever describe Euripides' Medea as fun.
0:06:32 > 0:06:37It has an unsettling heroine, a scandalous plot and it's been
0:06:37 > 0:06:39one of the most enduring plays
0:06:39 > 0:06:42in the repertoire of classical drama.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46Recently, an even more unsettling version,
0:06:46 > 0:06:51Medea, Written in Rage, has been performed.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55It actually takes the Euripides play
0:06:55 > 0:07:01and it turns it into an 80-minute monologue performed by a man.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04Written originally in French by Jean-Rene Lemoine,
0:07:04 > 0:07:06it's been translated,
0:07:06 > 0:07:10adapted and directed in the UK by Neil Bartlett.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17At the beginning of the show I really wanted to give people
0:07:17 > 0:07:21the impression that this was the real Medea coming
0:07:21 > 0:07:24back from the myths of history
0:07:24 > 0:07:26to tell her story.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33Medea comes to us from the myths and legends of ancient Greece.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36She's a sorceress, the daughter of the sun,
0:07:36 > 0:07:40and she uses her magic powers to make Jason, of Argonauts
0:07:40 > 0:07:43and Golden Fleece fame, fall in love with her.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47She follows him where he chooses to go through the world,
0:07:47 > 0:07:50she bears him children but, crucially, they never get married.
0:07:50 > 0:07:55He famously dumps her and she kills their children.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59I push his head under the water 10 times, 100 times,
0:07:59 > 0:08:03he looks at me in surprise,
0:08:03 > 0:08:05his mouth gaping open.
0:08:07 > 0:08:08And disappears.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13Medea's story has been told a thousand times
0:08:13 > 0:08:17but I think this new version does two things which are very different.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21One, she's on her own on stage, it's a one-person show.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24Also we've gone back to Euripides' idea
0:08:24 > 0:08:26that Medea might be a part
0:08:26 > 0:08:29very well suited to be played by a man,
0:08:29 > 0:08:32so Francois Testory performs Medea.
0:08:32 > 0:08:38I think seeing this archetypal story of female rage played by
0:08:38 > 0:08:43one, a foreigner, and two, who someone's performance bends gender
0:08:43 > 0:08:48till it breaks gives the story a very dark and fascinating twist.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51- LOUD CRACK - Oh!
0:08:51 > 0:08:56He says, "Why do you hate me, Medea? What have I ever done to you?"
0:08:56 > 0:08:59- LOUD CRACK - Oh.
0:08:59 > 0:09:04His hand stings my cheek like a leather belt. I say nothing.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07Does anyone ever know why they hate?
0:09:07 > 0:09:10How do you solve a problem like Medea?
0:09:10 > 0:09:13Well, I don't want to solve the problem of Medea, I want to
0:09:13 > 0:09:17bring Medea on stage to confront the audience and to say,
0:09:17 > 0:09:24"Listen, this is what I did. It's up for you to work out why I did it."
0:09:24 > 0:09:30I was a bit apprehensive when I went to see this because I thought
0:09:30 > 0:09:34here in Medea you have got what seemed to me
0:09:34 > 0:09:39to be THE classic play about binary gender division,
0:09:39 > 0:09:42the woman versus the man.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45And I didn't see how that could be successful.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47But did you think it worked?
0:09:47 > 0:09:51Yes, very much so because it's always in a sense been a male
0:09:51 > 0:09:54fantasy about what women might do
0:09:54 > 0:09:58- if you annoy them.- So what happens when you make Medea a man?
0:09:58 > 0:10:03I think it raises the question of what is the natural order
0:10:03 > 0:10:05that's being subverted.
0:10:05 > 0:10:11It's saying however radical Euripides' version was,
0:10:11 > 0:10:16it always assumed male power that this is an exception to.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19I don't quite see in what way this is a subversion.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22- How does it subvert? - I don't think it's a subversion,
0:10:22 > 0:10:25I just think it's an extraordinarily powerful
0:10:25 > 0:10:30rendition of the archetypal murderer of neither gender who is
0:10:30 > 0:10:32absolutely distraught by loss.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35The sheer range of emotions that Testory takes us through
0:10:35 > 0:10:39is absolutely extraordinary. And of course the power of the male voice,
0:10:39 > 0:10:43he's got this perfect low contralto, high tenor voice
0:10:43 > 0:10:45and you never quite know which way he's going to go,
0:10:45 > 0:10:48and that gives this figure of Medea an extraordinary sort of
0:10:48 > 0:10:53phallic authority, which is what the ancient actor would have given her.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56That's one of the things that's really interesting, as Neil Bartlett
0:10:56 > 0:11:00refers to, really, that we often take it for granted and just
0:11:00 > 0:11:04say, "Oh, of course, in the ancient world they were all played by men."
0:11:04 > 0:11:07But we don't often think, "So what does that mean?"
0:11:07 > 0:11:14In this I think it really emphasised the power of Medea.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18You are taking notice of her, not because she's a wronged woman
0:11:18 > 0:11:21but because she's got something to say.
0:11:21 > 0:11:25Absolutely. Testory has clearly studied some of the ancient
0:11:25 > 0:11:29artefacts that show us male tragic actors in performance.
0:11:29 > 0:11:31You can actually see that from the way that he holds his head
0:11:31 > 0:11:35and his arms. I think Testory is bringing us back as close as we
0:11:35 > 0:11:38could ever get to what it was like
0:11:38 > 0:11:41to be standing in the Theatre of Dionysus in 431BC.
0:11:41 > 0:11:46But it also...for me who knows little about the practice
0:11:46 > 0:11:50of acting, seemed an extraordinary technical accomplishment.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53I mean, 80 minutes' monologue.
0:11:53 > 0:11:58Parts of... The Euripides play has got quite a lot of big speeches
0:11:58 > 0:12:01- but how does somebody manage that? - I think...
0:12:01 > 0:12:04I mean, I remember when I was learning it, I mean,
0:12:04 > 0:12:05I just had to do it in big chunks
0:12:05 > 0:12:10and you would look at the paper and just turn the page again and again
0:12:10 > 0:12:14and go, "Oh, my God, there's more. There's more. There's more."
0:12:14 > 0:12:17But you use visualisation as an actor.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20If there's a tight, formal structure to it it's actually much
0:12:20 > 0:12:24easier to learn because the images drag your visualisation into them
0:12:24 > 0:12:30and metaphor and all of those tools you learn to remember things.
0:12:30 > 0:12:32You might give us a bit of it, actually,
0:12:32 > 0:12:37cos I think it might illustrate some of the similarities and differences.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39Certainly, I'll read you some.
0:12:39 > 0:12:40"My friends,
0:12:40 > 0:12:42"I have now decided what to do.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47"With all haste I shall kill my children
0:12:47 > 0:12:48"and leave this country.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53"I shall not delay and so surrender them to other,
0:12:53 > 0:12:55"crueller hands to kill.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58"There's no escape from it.
0:12:58 > 0:13:00"None at all.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03"They must die.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05"And since they must,
0:13:05 > 0:13:08"I, who bore them, shall kill them.
0:13:09 > 0:13:11"But come,
0:13:11 > 0:13:13"my heart,
0:13:13 > 0:13:15"arm yourself.
0:13:15 > 0:13:20"Why do I delay to do the terrible but necessary crime?
0:13:20 > 0:13:23"Come, my cruel hand.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26"Take the sword. Take it.
0:13:28 > 0:13:30"Go forward to where life's pain begins.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33"Do not prove a coward.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38"Do not think how very much you love your children,
0:13:38 > 0:13:40"how you gave birth to them.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44"Forget your feelings for them.
0:13:44 > 0:13:47"For this one brief day.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49"And then lament.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52"For even if you will kill them,
0:13:52 > 0:13:54"still they were born your dear children.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58"And I am an ill-fated woman."
0:14:00 > 0:14:03There is a question about the relevance of this.
0:14:03 > 0:14:08I think it's really interesting that recently Mike Bartlett,
0:14:08 > 0:14:10the creator of Doctor Foster,
0:14:10 > 0:14:14said that Medea actually lay behind Doctor Foster.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17You know, somehow made me think that this was turning
0:14:17 > 0:14:22Medea into the kind of, you know, the classic divorce movie.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25Do you think Medea is relevant in that Doctor Foster way?
0:14:25 > 0:14:30The play originally is actually a Haitian African descent,
0:14:30 > 0:14:34and it's an awful lot about colonial anger with France.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36Now, that doesn't translate specifically into the English
0:14:36 > 0:14:40context so it's about any other who you have diminished
0:14:40 > 0:14:42getting their own back in the end.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45It's not going to be just about a divorce story,
0:14:45 > 0:14:48an angry screeching row between a man and a wife,
0:14:48 > 0:14:51it's about someone who's had their power taken from them,
0:14:51 > 0:14:54someone who's displaced and is inactive
0:14:54 > 0:14:57and has had their power wrenched from them.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59And they not only become bankrupt in the way
0:14:59 > 0:15:03they are treated from their family but from society as well.
0:15:03 > 0:15:04Medea, Written In Rage
0:15:04 > 0:15:07is on in Liverpool next week and then touring,
0:15:07 > 0:15:11though I think I should warn you it isn't exactly family viewing.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14And for those who can't get enough of her,
0:15:14 > 0:15:17Cherubini's opera Medea is currently playing
0:15:17 > 0:15:22at the Wexford Festival Opera in Ireland, directed by Fiona Shaw.
0:15:23 > 0:15:29Now, back in antiquity, museums were temples of the Muses,
0:15:29 > 0:15:33the goddesses of arts, creativity and culture,
0:15:33 > 0:15:37and John Soane was only one of many architects
0:15:37 > 0:15:40who have had a go at adapting that idea of the temple
0:15:40 > 0:15:43to the modern museum.
0:15:43 > 0:15:48Right now, in Dundee, there's a very, very new one going up
0:15:48 > 0:15:52because the V&A, the Victoria and Albert Museum in London,
0:15:52 > 0:15:54is about to have a partner,
0:15:54 > 0:16:00which is going to showcase Scottish design past and present,
0:16:00 > 0:16:03and the winner of the competition to design this museum
0:16:03 > 0:16:06was the Japanese architect Kengo Kuma,
0:16:06 > 0:16:09and we sent the artist Nathan Coley
0:16:09 > 0:16:12to talk to him about the progress so far.
0:16:15 > 0:16:18I'm interested in ideas of public space and architecture
0:16:18 > 0:16:22and how they reflect and influence people's lives.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29Today I'm going back to Dundee, the city where I lived ten years ago.
0:16:31 > 0:16:33It was on the up then,
0:16:33 > 0:16:35but now an ambitious £1 billion programme
0:16:35 > 0:16:39of waterfront regeneration, with V&A Dundee at its heart,
0:16:39 > 0:16:42looks set to transform the city.
0:16:43 > 0:16:47V&A Dundee is the first UK building designed by
0:16:47 > 0:16:52the fantastically dynamic Japanese architect Kengo Kuma,
0:16:52 > 0:16:54who is also designing
0:16:54 > 0:16:55the Olympic Stadium
0:16:55 > 0:16:57for the Tokyo 2020 Games.
0:16:57 > 0:16:59He has designed everything,
0:16:59 > 0:17:04from Buddhist shrines to mountaintop observatories,
0:17:04 > 0:17:08and is interested in how nature and humans and architecture
0:17:08 > 0:17:10can have a conversation between them.
0:17:14 > 0:17:19Kengo, would you say that you are importing Japanese aesthetic
0:17:19 > 0:17:21here to Dundee?
0:17:21 > 0:17:26I don't think I export Japan to Dundee.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30But as a... I feel there's a...
0:17:30 > 0:17:34Scotland and Japan have some similarity.
0:17:34 > 0:17:41Both people respect nature and their nature has some strongness.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44Kuma's design for the facade was inspired by
0:17:44 > 0:17:48a particular part of the local Scottish landscape.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51The cliff is between water and land.
0:17:51 > 0:17:55We thought the cliff can translate to the building.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58The location is between water and land
0:17:58 > 0:18:04and, for that kind of special place, the building was not needed.
0:18:04 > 0:18:08A kind of new cliff was needed for this kind of location.
0:18:08 > 0:18:10That's a lovely idea.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12A new cliff was needed.
0:18:12 > 0:18:13- LAUGHING:- Yes.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15I agree.
0:18:16 > 0:18:19I'm interested in the form of the building,
0:18:19 > 0:18:23where it touches the land, being at its smallest point.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26And the form becomes larger.
0:18:26 > 0:18:31It's almost a kind of inversion of what would perhaps be traditional.
0:18:31 > 0:18:36Some buildings with a straight wall reject people,
0:18:36 > 0:18:43but this shape can draw all the people to the building
0:18:43 > 0:18:48and the space beneath the section is a kind of in-between space.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50It is not exterior, not interior,
0:18:50 > 0:18:54it is the most comfortable environment for humans.
0:18:54 > 0:18:59I think the moment where the building comes out of the water
0:18:59 > 0:19:02and then lands on the waterside, for me,
0:19:02 > 0:19:05there seems to be a real tension there.
0:19:05 > 0:19:10Here, the water is part of the building design
0:19:10 > 0:19:13and the water is always moving
0:19:13 > 0:19:19and we try to create the same kind of vibration on the facade.
0:19:19 > 0:19:24You are well known to have a strong opinion about what you feel
0:19:24 > 0:19:31the role of the architect is in the 21st century.
0:19:31 > 0:19:36In 20th century, the main role of architects
0:19:36 > 0:19:41is to create artificial environments,
0:19:41 > 0:19:45and the skyscraper is a symbol of the 20th century.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48But in the 21st century,
0:19:48 > 0:19:54the role of architects is to reconnect nature and city.
0:19:54 > 0:19:59So the architect is no longer the master planner of the universe?
0:19:59 > 0:20:03The architect cannot design the universe.
0:20:03 > 0:20:10The nature is much stronger than a building
0:20:10 > 0:20:12and much beautifuller than the city.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16Philip Long is director of the new museum.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20When the museum's opened next year, what will the visiting public
0:20:20 > 0:20:23be able to see in terms of the collection?
0:20:23 > 0:20:26What we've concentrated on for V&A Dundee,
0:20:26 > 0:20:29especially for its opening years, is to build a display which
0:20:29 > 0:20:32looks at this extraordinary history of Scotland's design.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35In our work on that and our research on that, we identified
0:20:35 > 0:20:37that V&A, in its collections,
0:20:37 > 0:20:40had over 12,000 objects that relate to Scotland's design history.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44And something I'm especially proud of, we are restoring an original
0:20:44 > 0:20:49Mackintosh room that hasn't been seen since it was in use, in 1970.
0:20:49 > 0:20:53And that will be a thrilling experience to see, after
0:20:53 > 0:20:55that has been in storage for nearly 50 years.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57Design in Scotland has an illustrious past
0:20:57 > 0:21:00and V&A Dundee will celebrate that past as well
0:21:00 > 0:21:03as show our fantastic contemporary achievement.
0:21:04 > 0:21:10The Victoria and Albert Museum of Design, Dundee, is due to open in 2018.
0:21:11 > 0:21:17Also in Scotland this week, the Sonica festival in Glasgow
0:21:17 > 0:21:22features, believe it or not, the UK's first underwater concert.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29The Danish team Between Music invited Front Row to go
0:21:29 > 0:21:34and find out a bit more about their presentation, AquaSonic.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37DISTORTED PERCUSSION ECHOES
0:21:37 > 0:21:41It was 46 years ago that Pink Floyd were filmed
0:21:41 > 0:21:45playing in the amphitheatre at Pompeii.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48It was completely empty, just the band, no audience.
0:21:50 > 0:21:54In 2016, David Gilmour went back.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58This time, there was an audience.
0:21:58 > 0:22:01And I was lucky enough to be there.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03I have to say,
0:22:03 > 0:22:07I also think I've made a small cameo appearance in the box set
0:22:07 > 0:22:11version of this concert, explaining about the lavatory
0:22:11 > 0:22:13provision in the ancient amphitheatre.
0:22:13 > 0:22:19But for me, it was overall just completely memorable. Almost moving.
0:22:19 > 0:22:23I think, to be sitting there on the same seats that the ancient
0:22:23 > 0:22:26audience would have watched the blood and guts
0:22:26 > 0:22:28of the gladiatorial shows,
0:22:28 > 0:22:31to be enjoying sound and spectacle of a wholly different sort.
0:22:53 > 0:22:57What I remember at the time was, listening to that
0:22:57 > 0:23:00and thinking, "Here's a track from The Wall."
0:23:00 > 0:23:03Suddenly, when you hear it in the amphitheatre at Pompeii,
0:23:03 > 0:23:05it started to be about something else entirely.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08When it said, "Run, run, run," you thought, "Oh, my God,
0:23:08 > 0:23:10"the volcano's about to erupt!"
0:23:10 > 0:23:14Did you feel that performing in that place made some of these
0:23:14 > 0:23:16songs different?
0:23:16 > 0:23:18Absolutely, it definitely made them different.
0:23:18 > 0:23:22The audience in AD79 would've had nowhere to run,
0:23:22 > 0:23:25if they wanted to run. We felt safe enough on the stage.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28SHE LAUGHS It didn't look very safe.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32The atmosphere of being there in that arena and, you know,
0:23:32 > 0:23:34the whole concert started just at dusk,
0:23:34 > 0:23:40where you could still see Vesuvius there behind us, was really exciting.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43And I wondered also when I was there at the time how different it
0:23:43 > 0:23:47felt for you being there in 2016,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50from in the early '70s, which...
0:23:50 > 0:23:55In the '70s, early '70s, we had no audience and we were making a film.
0:23:55 > 0:24:00We were standing in the arena, it was roasting hot and I was 25.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02A little bit older now.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04And, erm...
0:24:04 > 0:24:10So, it was just take and retake, the way that one does. Here it's a
0:24:10 > 0:24:15performance that has to work on its own, and with an audience, it's dark.
0:24:15 > 0:24:20Not all of it was dark, we did most of it shooting in the daytime. Erm, very different.
0:24:20 > 0:24:24David Gilmour Live At Pompeii is available on DVD
0:24:24 > 0:24:29and Blu-ray and will be shown on BBC Two later this year.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32That's it for this week's Front Row.
0:24:32 > 0:24:37Thank you to my guests, Edith Hall, Roz Kaveney and Kate Fleetwood.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40If you want information and details about anything we've been
0:24:40 > 0:24:44talking about, do head to our website and of course, it's
0:24:44 > 0:24:47arts, news and reviews every weeknight
0:24:47 > 0:24:52on Radio 4's Front Row at 7.15.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55Next week is the last programme in the current series
0:24:55 > 0:25:00and Giles Coren will be back with an Agatha Christie special.
0:25:00 > 0:25:05I leave you with David Gilmour performing A Boat Lies Waiting.
0:25:05 > 0:25:07Good night.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25# Something I never knew
0:25:27 > 0:25:32# In silence I'd hear you
0:25:32 > 0:25:39# And a boat lies waiting
0:25:39 > 0:25:46# Still your clouds all flaming
0:25:47 > 0:25:52# That old-time easy feeling
0:25:59 > 0:26:05# What I lost was an ocean
0:26:05 > 0:26:12# Now I'm drifting through without you
0:26:12 > 0:26:16# In this sad barcarolle
0:26:25 > 0:26:32# What I lost was an ocean
0:26:32 > 0:26:38# And I'm rolling right behind you
0:26:39 > 0:26:43# In this sad barcarolle
0:26:56 > 0:27:03# It rocks you like a cradle It rocks you to the core
0:27:03 > 0:27:11# You'll sleep like a baby As it knocks at death's door
0:27:33 > 0:27:38# Ooh, ooh
0:28:00 > 0:28:04# Ooh, ooh
0:28:26 > 0:28:31# Ooh, ooh
0:28:52 > 0:28:57# Ooh, ooh
0:29:18 > 0:29:21# Ooh, ooh. #