Kenneth Branagh, Sarah Phelps and Father John Misty

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0:00:02 > 0:00:03Hello, I'm Giles Coren. Tonight on Front Row,

0:00:03 > 0:00:06we wind the clock back to the golden age of crime fiction

0:00:06 > 0:00:08to pay homage to the genre's grande dame, Agatha Christie.

0:00:10 > 0:00:12Coming up on the show, there's A-list murder

0:00:12 > 0:00:15with actor-director Kenneth Branagh and an all-star cast

0:00:15 > 0:00:17in a new film version of Murder On The Orient Express.

0:00:19 > 0:00:21We'll be asking whether Agatha Christie's personal life

0:00:21 > 0:00:23was all it seemed on the surface.

0:00:23 > 0:00:26Nikki Bedi steps into the jury box

0:00:26 > 0:00:29as Witness For The Prosecution - Christie's classic courtroom drama

0:00:29 > 0:00:32is given a unique staging in a famous London landmark.

0:00:32 > 0:00:35And indie rock provocateur Father John Misty

0:00:35 > 0:00:37will be performing live in the studio.

0:00:41 > 0:00:43Hello, I'm Giles Coren,

0:00:43 > 0:00:46and with me in the studio to discuss magnificent moustaches,

0:00:46 > 0:00:48dastardly deeds, and the passion of Agatha Christie

0:00:48 > 0:00:51are screenwriter Sarah Phelps, and Sophie Hannah,

0:00:51 > 0:00:54the author of her own series of Hercule Poirot novels.

0:00:54 > 0:00:56Film first.

0:00:56 > 0:00:58Agatha Christie is the bestselling novelist of all time,

0:00:58 > 0:01:01her books outsold only by Shakespeare and the Bible.

0:01:01 > 0:01:04But Christie wasn't one to stay locked up in a quiet room

0:01:04 > 0:01:06with her typewriter. Many of her novels saw their beginnings

0:01:06 > 0:01:08in her frequent travels around the world.

0:01:08 > 0:01:10And perhaps her most famous was inspired

0:01:10 > 0:01:12by a particularly eventful rail journey.

0:01:12 > 0:01:14I went to find out about the latest big-screen

0:01:14 > 0:01:16manifestation of Christie's work.

0:01:17 > 0:01:20These days, many of us are all too aware

0:01:20 > 0:01:22of the frustrations of a train delay.

0:01:22 > 0:01:24But when Agatha Christie was stranded

0:01:24 > 0:01:28on the famous Orient Express by a violent storm in 1931,

0:01:28 > 0:01:31her thoughts turned, quite literally, to murder.

0:01:35 > 0:01:38Her resulting novel, Murder On The Orient Express,

0:01:38 > 0:01:41has been adapted for the cinema for the first time in over 40 years

0:01:41 > 0:01:44by actor and director Kenneth Branagh.

0:01:44 > 0:01:46A passenger has died.

0:01:46 > 0:01:47He was murdered.

0:01:48 > 0:01:50The murderer is on the train

0:01:50 > 0:01:51with us now.

0:01:51 > 0:01:54And every one of you is a suspect.

0:01:54 > 0:01:57When you were growing up, were you a Christie reader?

0:01:57 > 0:02:00Or did you just come to it for the sake of making the film?

0:02:00 > 0:02:04My mother decided, in her early 50s, she started working

0:02:04 > 0:02:07in a charity shop, she'd sort of retired from full-time work,

0:02:07 > 0:02:08and she kept bringing home the books,

0:02:08 > 0:02:11the second-hand books that would be sort of recycled.

0:02:11 > 0:02:13One of them was Murder On The Orient Express.

0:02:13 > 0:02:17Agatha Christie, she seemed to unleash these primal passions

0:02:17 > 0:02:20that were very, very engaging, if you're interested in drama.

0:02:20 > 0:02:22You're the world-famous detective.

0:02:22 > 0:02:24Hercule Poirot.

0:02:25 > 0:02:28Avenger of the innocent. Is that what they call you in the papers?

0:02:28 > 0:02:29And you are innocent?

0:02:29 > 0:02:30HE CHUCKLES

0:02:30 > 0:02:32You're fun.

0:02:32 > 0:02:35We wanted to embrace Agatha Christie's universe.

0:02:35 > 0:02:37She's a much-travelled woman.

0:02:37 > 0:02:40She sets out spectacular landscapes.

0:02:40 > 0:02:41We wanted to announce our entry

0:02:41 > 0:02:44into an Agatha Christie cinematic world

0:02:44 > 0:02:47before we go on this...this journey that we invite you to...

0:02:47 > 0:02:51..to feel, to feel the linen, sort of hear the champagne popping,

0:02:51 > 0:02:55and once that's established, the performances can be a little

0:02:55 > 0:02:59more contained, and a little more unsettled.

0:02:59 > 0:03:02- POIROT:- You know, there is something about that tangle of strangers,

0:03:02 > 0:03:05pressed together for days with nothing in common but the need to

0:03:05 > 0:03:08go from one place to another and never see each other again.

0:03:09 > 0:03:12She's done something in Murder On The Orient Express

0:03:12 > 0:03:15where she keeps alive 12, or you might argue 15 characters,

0:03:15 > 0:03:18keeps and audience guessing about who they might be.

0:03:18 > 0:03:20Just orchestrating that number of characters is very

0:03:20 > 0:03:25impressive as a novelist, and then she seems to ignite something

0:03:25 > 0:03:28that goes, I think, at least beyond mere entertainment

0:03:28 > 0:03:31in the sense of simply a drawing room mystery.

0:03:31 > 0:03:34The berth was occupied by Signor Foscarelli.

0:03:34 > 0:03:36Oh, yes, sir. The Italian person.

0:03:36 > 0:03:41Christie's butler was played in 1974 by John Gielgud,

0:03:41 > 0:03:44and has now been revived by the similarly-revered thespian

0:03:44 > 0:03:45Derek Jacobi.

0:03:45 > 0:03:47Got everything?

0:03:47 > 0:03:50Kind of you to enquire, Mr McQueen, but I do not make mistakes.

0:03:52 > 0:03:54It's not the same kind of performance,

0:03:54 > 0:03:58cos Ken didn't want Masterman to be posh.

0:03:58 > 0:04:02And, now, John is, has always been very, very posh.

0:04:02 > 0:04:05So, in that sense, I didn't follow in John's footsteps.

0:04:06 > 0:04:09Jacobi is joined on screen by an astounding cast

0:04:09 > 0:04:11of international A-listers,

0:04:11 > 0:04:13every one of them a suspect,

0:04:13 > 0:04:15including our own Olivia Colman.

0:04:15 > 0:04:18There was one scene where Michelle Pfeiffer...

0:04:18 > 0:04:20I don't know if you've heard of her, Michelle Pfeiffer,

0:04:20 > 0:04:22but she was wearing a dressing gown,

0:04:22 > 0:04:25with a turban, pinched-in waist, she just looked beautiful.

0:04:25 > 0:04:27And I had flannelette up to the neck with a little bow.

0:04:27 > 0:04:29And she went, "You look beautiful."

0:04:29 > 0:04:31- And I went, "Oh,- BLEEP."

0:04:35 > 0:04:38But the portrayal of Christie's most uniquely styled character,

0:04:38 > 0:04:42Hercule Poirot, was left up to Branagh himself.

0:04:42 > 0:04:45Once the moustache was arrived at, and the clothes and everything,

0:04:45 > 0:04:47I found myself walking, leaning forward,

0:04:47 > 0:04:49that he was a sort of bloodhound.

0:04:49 > 0:04:51It was as if he was on the front of a car or a boat or something.

0:04:51 > 0:04:54But at the same time, in repose, it really felt

0:04:54 > 0:04:57as though he could watch very, very carefully what was going on

0:04:57 > 0:04:59and we could allow for a contemplative part of him

0:04:59 > 0:05:01that maybe didn't exist before.

0:05:01 > 0:05:02But what about when you were directing?

0:05:02 > 0:05:04You didn't take the moustache off, did you?

0:05:04 > 0:05:05I... I did not, no.

0:05:05 > 0:05:08403, take one.

0:05:08 > 0:05:11What I used to do was, if we were doing a scene like this,

0:05:11 > 0:05:14we might talk about, "Giles, this is brilliant,

0:05:14 > 0:05:16"maybe you want to do this or that or da, da, da..."

0:05:16 > 0:05:18Then I'd look in a mirror to just remind myself...

0:05:18 > 0:05:20- BELGIAN ACCENT: - "Oh, he is there as well."

0:05:20 > 0:05:22And now, I'd come back and be ready to do that.

0:05:23 > 0:05:24My name is Hercule Poirot,

0:05:24 > 0:05:27and I am probably the greatest detective in the world.

0:05:27 > 0:05:28And what about David Suchet?

0:05:28 > 0:05:30What about his shadow?

0:05:30 > 0:05:34Did you have to do something to sort of exorcise that?

0:05:34 > 0:05:38No, just simply tip your hat to a magnificent actor,

0:05:38 > 0:05:40a wonderful, wonderful Poirot. He's just...

0:05:40 > 0:05:43As is Finney, as is Ustinov,

0:05:43 > 0:05:46I understand Orson Welles played it, Charles Laughton played it,

0:05:46 > 0:05:48the very first actor to play Poirot

0:05:48 > 0:05:51was an actor called Austin Trevor from Belfast, Northern Ireland.

0:05:51 > 0:05:53So I felt there was a little circular work was going on, there.

0:05:53 > 0:05:57But, no, with rich material, there is, I think, room for all.

0:05:58 > 0:06:00The murderer is with us.

0:06:00 > 0:06:01On the train.

0:06:01 > 0:06:02Now.

0:06:03 > 0:06:06We all had a really, genuinely, as you said,

0:06:06 > 0:06:09it felt like a big, old-fashioned theatre company.

0:06:09 > 0:06:10Yes, it really did.

0:06:10 > 0:06:12- And a lot of that came from Ken. - Really... Yes.

0:06:12 > 0:06:16You know, he's remarkable in that.

0:06:16 > 0:06:19Because he keeps a wonderful atmosphere on the set.

0:06:19 > 0:06:23An atmosphere of relaxed tension.

0:06:25 > 0:06:28There's a suggestion towards the end of the film that

0:06:28 > 0:06:31Kenneth Branagh's Death On The Nile may not be a million miles away.

0:06:31 > 0:06:33You're going to have... One of the problems is

0:06:33 > 0:06:35the only contiguous character is you, isn't it?

0:06:35 > 0:06:37All of these wonderful actors you've just had,

0:06:37 > 0:06:39they'll have to go in the next one.

0:06:39 > 0:06:41Well, Judi Dench said, no, she said, "If you ever do another one,

0:06:41 > 0:06:43"we just recast us." She said,

0:06:43 > 0:06:45"Have it like a theatrical repertory company, and we come back,"

0:06:45 > 0:06:47she said, "I'll play a bloke in the next one, if you like.

0:06:49 > 0:06:52What will you do when you run out of the ones in exotic locations,

0:06:52 > 0:06:54of which there aren't many, and get to these ones which take place

0:06:54 > 0:06:57in little country houses in the south-west?

0:06:57 > 0:06:59There's a brilliant one amongst many,

0:06:59 > 0:07:02The Murder Of Roger Ackroyd, which does take place

0:07:02 > 0:07:05in the English countryside,

0:07:05 > 0:07:09but has this sort of titanic kind of passion underneath it

0:07:09 > 0:07:11that I think makes a point that she makes -

0:07:11 > 0:07:15listen, you can be in the Nile, you can be in Mesopotamia, you can

0:07:15 > 0:07:20be on the Orient Express, or you can be, as it were, in Cheam...

0:07:20 > 0:07:24But there's no boat to take you away from yourself, and if yourself

0:07:24 > 0:07:29is some dark and tortured character who may resort to violence, then...

0:07:29 > 0:07:31the truth will out.

0:07:33 > 0:07:35So, you've both seen the film.

0:07:35 > 0:07:37How was it for you, Sarah?

0:07:37 > 0:07:41This was the first Agatha Christie adaptation, apart from my own,

0:07:41 > 0:07:43that I've ever seen the whole way through.

0:07:43 > 0:07:45It's huge, it's a massive, immersive experience,

0:07:45 > 0:07:47and mine are small screen but...

0:07:47 > 0:07:50So it was like readjusting to a totally different thing.

0:07:50 > 0:07:52How about you? Were you immersed in it?

0:07:52 > 0:07:54Oh, yeah.

0:07:54 > 0:07:57I mean, it was incredibly beautiful and luxuriant,

0:07:57 > 0:07:59like Poirot's moustaches.

0:07:59 > 0:08:01And it was a bit controversial in some circles,

0:08:01 > 0:08:04some people thought it wasn't the right kind of moustache,

0:08:04 > 0:08:07but Agatha Christie always made a point of saying

0:08:07 > 0:08:09that Poirot's moustache was meant to be

0:08:09 > 0:08:11over the top and really impressive

0:08:11 > 0:08:14and not an ordinary moustache. So, I loved that.

0:08:14 > 0:08:16And, having seen all the Poirots,

0:08:16 > 0:08:20you know, Albert Finney and David Suchet, and Peter Ustinov,

0:08:20 > 0:08:22and loving them all in different ways,

0:08:22 > 0:08:24I thought Kenneth Branagh was a superb Poirot.

0:08:24 > 0:08:28- So did I, so did I. - Absolutely wonderful.

0:08:28 > 0:08:31He really felt like a real, proper Poirot.

0:08:31 > 0:08:34Murder On The Orient Express is on in cinemas nationwide,

0:08:34 > 0:08:37and a new paperback version of the novel to tie in with the film

0:08:37 > 0:08:39has just been reissued by HarperCollins.

0:08:40 > 0:08:43Now, Agatha Christie's novels still sell incredibly well.

0:08:43 > 0:08:46But where does her literary reputation stand?

0:08:46 > 0:08:48Some readers complain about what they see as her xenophobia,

0:08:48 > 0:08:51her snobbery, her general fuddy-duddy-ness.

0:08:51 > 0:08:53For a long time, Christie produced a book every year,

0:08:53 > 0:08:56advertised with the slogan, "A Christie for Christmas!"

0:08:56 > 0:08:59which doesn't exactly scream, "challenging literary masterpiece".

0:08:59 > 0:09:03So, do her books still hold up as great mystery fiction?

0:09:03 > 0:09:05So, Christie herself said

0:09:05 > 0:09:08that she was just writing "entertainments".

0:09:08 > 0:09:10Are they more than that or are they just puzzles?

0:09:10 > 0:09:14Well, I don't think words like "only" and "just"

0:09:14 > 0:09:16should be applied to great entertainment.

0:09:16 > 0:09:18There's no "only" or "just" about it.

0:09:18 > 0:09:24That is what novelists should be doing and that's what readers love.

0:09:24 > 0:09:27The books that readers love are the ones that are really entertaining,

0:09:27 > 0:09:31where the story is really compelling and gripping.

0:09:31 > 0:09:34Having said that, I don't think she "only" provided

0:09:34 > 0:09:37great entertainment, I think there are so many layers to her books

0:09:37 > 0:09:40and the proof of this is that if you read them

0:09:40 > 0:09:42over and over again, as I do,

0:09:42 > 0:09:46knowing every detail of the plot, on a line-by-line level,

0:09:46 > 0:09:49they are still witty and sparkling and clear

0:09:49 > 0:09:51and the prose is just brilliant.

0:09:51 > 0:09:54Is it really, though? I mean... Sarah, the prose, is it...?

0:09:54 > 0:09:56Here's the thing.

0:09:56 > 0:09:59Until I read And Then There Were None, which was, literally,

0:09:59 > 0:10:01about three, nearly four years ago,

0:10:01 > 0:10:04to adapt it for the TV, I'd never read a Christie.

0:10:04 > 0:10:06I'd never watched one, I never read one.

0:10:06 > 0:10:08I just thought, "This is not what I like."

0:10:08 > 0:10:10It's not going to be, you know,

0:10:10 > 0:10:13Colonel Mustard with a thing over here and that's over there,

0:10:13 > 0:10:16and there's a body on the floor, but no-one really cares,

0:10:16 > 0:10:18it's just a catalyst for some really clever plotting.

0:10:18 > 0:10:19It's a parlour game.

0:10:19 > 0:10:22And then I read And Then There Were None - it blew me away.

0:10:22 > 0:10:25Its savagery. Its savagery, how remorseless it is.

0:10:25 > 0:10:29And you can read it on one level, it is a really clever plot.

0:10:29 > 0:10:32It's a beautiful locked-room mystery. It's a parlour game.

0:10:32 > 0:10:36But, you can also read it as a portrait of a psychopath,

0:10:36 > 0:10:38as a disquisition into the nature of guilt,

0:10:38 > 0:10:40and it's actually quite subversive.

0:10:40 > 0:10:43And I found it really rocked me how intense it was,

0:10:43 > 0:10:47how nasty it was, how brutal it was. And I loved it.

0:10:47 > 0:10:51Sophie, is the plotting at the expense of character?

0:10:51 > 0:10:54I went back and read Murder On The Orient Express

0:10:54 > 0:10:56for the purposes of watching this film, and I just saw ciphers.

0:10:56 > 0:10:59I didn't see depth in each character.

0:10:59 > 0:11:02No, I would strongly disagree with that.

0:11:02 > 0:11:05So, yes, the plotting is amazing,

0:11:05 > 0:11:07and in terms of space on the page,

0:11:07 > 0:11:09the plotting takes up a lot of space.

0:11:09 > 0:11:10It is very much to the fore,

0:11:10 > 0:11:14the bone structure of the story is very prominent,

0:11:14 > 0:11:18but the characterisation and the depth and the layers,

0:11:18 > 0:11:22and the knowledge and wisdom about human nature, it's all there.

0:11:22 > 0:11:25Now, the reason you might perceive the characters as ciphers,

0:11:25 > 0:11:29at least, initially, is that the three-dimensionalness

0:11:29 > 0:11:31cannot be apparent straightaway,

0:11:31 > 0:11:35because the detective, whether it's Poirot or Miss Marple,

0:11:35 > 0:11:38is encountering these people who are presenting themselves,

0:11:38 > 0:11:40and in the case of the murderer,

0:11:40 > 0:11:43the murderer is presenting him or herself dishonestly,

0:11:43 > 0:11:44so as not to get caught.

0:11:44 > 0:11:49So, it's absolutely essential and inherent to the requirements

0:11:49 > 0:11:53of the genre that they should SEEM to be surface.

0:11:53 > 0:11:54But...

0:11:54 > 0:11:56And then at the end, the third dimension,

0:11:56 > 0:11:59that's when we really know who people are.

0:11:59 > 0:12:02I've only really read the ones where there isn't a sleuth.

0:12:02 > 0:12:04I'm kind of interested in the ones where no-one comes along

0:12:04 > 0:12:07and sort of parcels it up and tells you what happened.

0:12:07 > 0:12:09I like it that there's no-one there to sort it out.

0:12:09 > 0:12:12And I think that what she is is actually tricksy.

0:12:12 > 0:12:14I think that she drops in tiny little clues

0:12:14 > 0:12:17for how you can read character, what you can take from this.

0:12:17 > 0:12:20So, if you want to, you can read it as, this is a plot,

0:12:20 > 0:12:22it's over there, it's over there.

0:12:22 > 0:12:24Oh, my God, that's a twist! Oh, my God, that's clever!

0:12:24 > 0:12:28Or, if you want to, if you... You can really drop a taproot down

0:12:28 > 0:12:32into some tiny little clue and see where that takes you.

0:12:32 > 0:12:34I think that they're... Or maybe that's just the way I read them.

0:12:34 > 0:12:37Maybe that's just the way my appalling mind works,

0:12:37 > 0:12:41- but that's how I read them.- Well, you both modernise Agatha Christie

0:12:41 > 0:12:43in your own ways. You've written new Poirot novels.

0:12:43 > 0:12:48You've made staggeringly new reappraisals of them for the screen.

0:12:48 > 0:12:50But what's the enduring appeal of her books?

0:12:50 > 0:12:53Because they clearly have it, they still sell enormously.

0:12:53 > 0:12:55Is it just a nostalgia thing?

0:12:55 > 0:12:57The reason Agatha Christie has sold billions

0:12:57 > 0:13:00and is still the most popular bestselling, and I believe,

0:13:00 > 0:13:04the best, crime writer there's ever been is because, you know,

0:13:04 > 0:13:06contrary to some of what you're saying,

0:13:06 > 0:13:10I honestly think she was brilliant on so many levels.

0:13:10 > 0:13:15But the sort of powerful awareness of evil

0:13:15 > 0:13:17and how likely we all are to,

0:13:17 > 0:13:19in some way, be harmed by evil,

0:13:19 > 0:13:21and all those big themes,

0:13:21 > 0:13:24and just sort of insight into the human condition,

0:13:24 > 0:13:27- you cannot beat Agatha Christie. - I think that.

0:13:27 > 0:13:30And I think it's about what, you know, there's always a sense of,

0:13:30 > 0:13:32you could be sitting next to somebody who is,

0:13:32 > 0:13:34in fact, a murderer. Or, in fact, the beast is you.

0:13:34 > 0:13:36That's what I like about it.

0:13:36 > 0:13:38We don't know what our own capacity is.

0:13:38 > 0:13:40And sometimes when you're reading her, you know,

0:13:40 > 0:13:42again this might be just me and my appalling mind,

0:13:42 > 0:13:44but I think that she seems to be suggesting

0:13:44 > 0:13:47that murder's actually quite a good idea sometimes?

0:13:47 > 0:13:50- Well... - Which really intrigues me, and...

0:13:50 > 0:13:52The whole thing about nostalgia,

0:13:52 > 0:13:55we like to think about, oh, this safe little past,

0:13:55 > 0:13:58and how nice it all is. It's full of blood and tumult!

0:13:58 > 0:14:01But I also think one of the things that people love about it

0:14:01 > 0:14:03is not the murder, or even the mystery,

0:14:03 > 0:14:05they like watching people lie.

0:14:05 > 0:14:08And if you want more Christie, then Sarah's latest adaptation,

0:14:08 > 0:14:11this time of the thriller Ordeal By Innocence,

0:14:11 > 0:14:13starring Bill Nighy and Anna Chancellor,

0:14:13 > 0:14:16will be shown on BBC One later this year.

0:14:16 > 0:14:18Next, theatre.

0:14:18 > 0:14:21Now, if I asked you to name an Agatha Christie play,

0:14:21 > 0:14:24- you would almost certainly say... CREW:- The Mousetrap!

0:14:24 > 0:14:28Exactly. Which has been running in London's West End for over 700 years

0:14:28 > 0:14:31and sets new box-office records every day.

0:14:31 > 0:14:32But it was actually her courtroom drama,

0:14:32 > 0:14:35Witness For The Prosecution that first made her

0:14:35 > 0:14:38a star of the theatre when it opened to rave reviews in 1953

0:14:38 > 0:14:41and it remained Christie's proudest achievement as a dramatist.

0:14:41 > 0:14:4564 years later, a new production of Witness For The Prosecution

0:14:45 > 0:14:47has opened on London's Southbank.

0:14:47 > 0:14:49But will this play, set in the 1950s,

0:14:49 > 0:14:51have the same appeal to a modern audience?

0:14:51 > 0:14:54We sent Nikki Bedi to get the verdict.

0:14:58 > 0:15:01I put it to you, as they say in courtroom dramas,

0:15:01 > 0:15:04that a lot of the appeal for Agatha Christie today

0:15:04 > 0:15:06lies in nostalgia,

0:15:06 > 0:15:09in our fondness for a time long gone by and if that's the case,

0:15:09 > 0:15:12then this new production of Witness For The Prosecution

0:15:12 > 0:15:15is off to a flying start because it's taking place here

0:15:15 > 0:15:18in this magnificent building, County Hall in London,

0:15:18 > 0:15:20which doubles for the Old Bailey

0:15:20 > 0:15:22where much of the play's action takes place.

0:15:29 > 0:15:30Wow!

0:15:30 > 0:15:32It's hard not to be impressed

0:15:32 > 0:15:36when you come through these doors as we, the audience,

0:15:36 > 0:15:38take our seats in the actual courtroom,

0:15:38 > 0:15:41or, even better, a place in the jury

0:15:41 > 0:15:45and you can do that if you pay a bit more for the privilege.

0:15:46 > 0:15:47- GAVEL BANGS - All rise.

0:15:47 > 0:15:49Without giving too much away,

0:15:49 > 0:15:52this is the story of the trial of Leonard Vole,

0:15:52 > 0:15:56a young man accused of murdering a wealthy older woman

0:15:56 > 0:15:59who faces the death penalty if found guilty.

0:16:00 > 0:16:03So will you both, first of all, tell me who you are

0:16:03 > 0:16:04and which characters you play?

0:16:04 > 0:16:08I'm playing Romaine Vole who is Leonard Vole's wife.

0:16:08 > 0:16:12She's the only person who can supply an alibi as to where

0:16:12 > 0:16:14he was the night of the murder.

0:16:15 > 0:16:18I play Leonard Vole who has allegedly murdered an older lady.

0:16:18 > 0:16:21- Ooh!- We will see.

0:16:22 > 0:16:24Perhaps your memory as to other parts of your story

0:16:24 > 0:16:25is equally untrustworthy.

0:16:25 > 0:16:28You originally told the police that the blood on the jacket

0:16:28 > 0:16:31came from a cut caused by a slip when carving ham.

0:16:31 > 0:16:35- I said so, yes, but it was not true. - More lies. Why did you lie?

0:16:35 > 0:16:37I said what Leonard told me to say.

0:16:37 > 0:16:38The truth... The truth is that

0:16:38 > 0:16:42Leonard cut himself with the knife to make it seem the blood was his.

0:16:42 > 0:16:44- I did not. I didn't.- Be quiet.

0:16:44 > 0:16:46And does it feel any different for you

0:16:46 > 0:16:49as the character of Leonard when you're in the courtroom?

0:16:49 > 0:16:52Do you think, as an actor, it lends something more?

0:16:52 > 0:16:56It definitely helps us out because it's such a imposing space

0:16:56 > 0:17:00that it's difficult not to feel intimidated

0:17:00 > 0:17:02when the lights are on you, you've got the judge looking down at you.

0:17:02 > 0:17:06You're very close to the audience - is that ever off-putting?

0:17:06 > 0:17:09We're lucky in the sense that the audience here are so close,

0:17:09 > 0:17:11so much closer than they would be in a West End theatre

0:17:11 > 0:17:14and they can see a lot of things that are going on with the actors.

0:17:14 > 0:17:18The question the jury must ask themselves is were you lying then...

0:17:18 > 0:17:20SHOUTING: ..or are you lying now?!

0:17:21 > 0:17:24I was afraid of Leonard.

0:17:25 > 0:17:30Witness For The Prosecution has been adapted many times over the years,

0:17:30 > 0:17:35but probably the most famous version is Billy Wilder's 1957 film

0:17:35 > 0:17:38starring Charles Laughton and Marlene Dietrich.

0:17:39 > 0:17:42And when the police questioned you about this wretched man

0:17:42 > 0:17:45who believes himself married and loved, you told them?

0:17:45 > 0:17:47I told them what Leonard wanted me to say.

0:17:47 > 0:17:51You told them that he was at home with you at 25 minutes past nine

0:17:51 > 0:17:53and now you say that that was a lie.

0:17:53 > 0:17:55Yes, a lie.

0:17:55 > 0:18:00- So what's this latest production based on?- We're doing the play.

0:18:00 > 0:18:03There's no adaptation. So we're trying to remain absolutely faithful

0:18:03 > 0:18:05to the play that Agatha wrote in the '50s,

0:18:05 > 0:18:07which is to be celebrated in some ways

0:18:07 > 0:18:10because, I think, so much of her work has been adapted.

0:18:10 > 0:18:13Did you have to think about updating it in any way or is it

0:18:13 > 0:18:15exactly as it was meant to be?

0:18:15 > 0:18:17No, we really placed it in the '50s.

0:18:17 > 0:18:20I mean, she originally wrote it in the '30s, late '20s, early '30s.

0:18:20 > 0:18:23- Late '20s, yeah. - So she has herself updated it

0:18:23 > 0:18:26and has clearly felt that the subject matter was still resonant,

0:18:26 > 0:18:28just as we have found by doing it today -

0:18:28 > 0:18:33it is still resonant, we're still fascinated by these issues of guilt,

0:18:33 > 0:18:35innocence, and our own subjectivity.

0:18:35 > 0:18:38And there's a twist, isn't there?

0:18:38 > 0:18:42Yes, there's not just one. There's one, two, three, four.

0:18:42 > 0:18:43I think there's four twists.

0:18:43 > 0:18:46And now everyone's going to be trying to second-guess the play

0:18:46 > 0:18:49by thinking, "Oh, this..." By trying to look for the next twist,

0:18:49 > 0:18:51but I promise you, you won't get there.

0:18:51 > 0:18:55So I have been given the privilege and the opportunity to be

0:18:55 > 0:18:58part of the jury and, apparently, they actually swear you in.

0:19:00 > 0:19:04I swear by Almighty God that I will faithfully try the defendant

0:19:04 > 0:19:07and give a true verdict according to the evidence.

0:19:07 > 0:19:09- Thank you.- Thank you.

0:19:10 > 0:19:14My Lord, members of the jury, I cannot say that this young man,

0:19:14 > 0:19:17the prisoner Leonard Vole, has no case to answer. There is a case.

0:19:17 > 0:19:22You feel absolutely like you are part of the jury.

0:19:22 > 0:19:26The judge turns round and locks eyes with you.

0:19:26 > 0:19:32I felt that I was truly responsible for that man's life.

0:19:32 > 0:19:34Will the foreman of the jury please stand?

0:19:35 > 0:19:40- Members of the jury, are you all agreed upon a verdict?- We are.

0:19:40 > 0:19:45And do you find the prisoner, Leonard Vole, guilty or not guilty?

0:19:50 > 0:19:51I don't know what to say.

0:19:51 > 0:19:53Agatha Christie's biographer Janet Morgan has joined us

0:19:53 > 0:19:56in the meantime and we'll be speaking to her in a second,

0:19:56 > 0:19:59but first, Sophie, how was that production for you?

0:19:59 > 0:20:05- Being in County Hall, how did it feel?- Oh, it was amazing,

0:20:05 > 0:20:07and the play is brilliant.

0:20:07 > 0:20:11Agatha Christie adapted it slightly from her original short story

0:20:11 > 0:20:15and I personally prefer the play version to the short story version.

0:20:15 > 0:20:18I think she does something, without giving any spoilers,

0:20:18 > 0:20:21she does something to the story that makes it even better

0:20:21 > 0:20:25and it is an amazing play. It's just brilliant.

0:20:25 > 0:20:28And why does she adapt so well for theatre?

0:20:28 > 0:20:30I mean, there she's adapting herself, but why is it?

0:20:30 > 0:20:32I don't know, because I adapted the short story

0:20:32 > 0:20:35for when I did Witness For The Prosecution.

0:20:35 > 0:20:36I preferred the short story, so later on

0:20:36 > 0:20:38me and Sophie are going to have a fight about that.

0:20:38 > 0:20:41I found it richer and more suggestive

0:20:41 > 0:20:44and more provocative than I found the play when I read it,

0:20:44 > 0:20:46but I've only read the play rather than seen it.

0:20:46 > 0:20:48We'll take it outside later. There may be blood on the floor.

0:20:48 > 0:20:50There's going to be blood. We're going to fight.

0:20:50 > 0:20:52Witness For The Prosecution is on

0:20:52 > 0:20:54at London's County Hall until March 2018.

0:20:54 > 0:20:59Now, Agatha Christie has often been criticised for writing rather

0:20:59 > 0:21:01cliched female characters, dim-witted maids

0:21:01 > 0:21:05and secretaries, mysterious countesses and ditzy flappers,

0:21:05 > 0:21:07but she also created witty, perceptive female detectives

0:21:07 > 0:21:11who not only kept up with the boys but often outran them.

0:21:11 > 0:21:14This mirrored Christie's own unconventional life and personality.

0:21:14 > 0:21:17Despite holding traditional views on marriage and family,

0:21:17 > 0:21:18she was fiercely independent.

0:21:18 > 0:21:22We're joined by her biographer Janet Morgan. Hello, Janet.

0:21:22 > 0:21:27- Now, we have this impression... - It's wrong.- It's wrong, is it?

0:21:27 > 0:21:29What's wrong with it?

0:21:29 > 0:21:31She's not just a quaint little old lady bashing away

0:21:31 > 0:21:33at her typewriter in Torquay?

0:21:33 > 0:21:35It's putting her into a sort of collective

0:21:35 > 0:21:38group of women like that, of that era.

0:21:38 > 0:21:42There's a terrific photograph of her roller-skating on the pier

0:21:42 > 0:21:45in Torquay wearing a hat with feathers and long skirts

0:21:45 > 0:21:49and with a whole lot of other girls wearing the same sort of clothes.

0:21:49 > 0:21:52When she... But underneath that carapace

0:21:52 > 0:21:55was somebody who was spirited -

0:21:55 > 0:21:59the granddaughter of two really fierce, forceful grandmothers

0:21:59 > 0:22:03and their witty, amusing, determined friends,

0:22:03 > 0:22:06a mother who took Agatha up in the first aeroplane flight that

0:22:06 > 0:22:08was available in Torquay.

0:22:08 > 0:22:12Although money was a bit scarce, Agatha had a childhood

0:22:12 > 0:22:15when, as she said, you did what you like. She read what she wanted.

0:22:15 > 0:22:20She developed a profession at which she stuck

0:22:20 > 0:22:23and when there were opportunities, like the surfing,

0:22:23 > 0:22:25she always adored sea bathing, when she...

0:22:25 > 0:22:29- Surfing? Tell me... When you say surfing...- She was standing up.

0:22:29 > 0:22:31- No?!- It says somewhere she was the first woman to surf standing up.

0:22:31 > 0:22:34How on earth does one know that? Surely, there must have been...

0:22:34 > 0:22:36She was the first woman to say, "Surfers do it standing up."

0:22:36 > 0:22:39- She was in a position to... - She's the first woman we know

0:22:39 > 0:22:41who surfed standing up called Agatha Christie.

0:22:41 > 0:22:44But she still thought that a woman's place was in the home, didn't she?

0:22:44 > 0:22:45I don't think she did.

0:22:45 > 0:22:49She said when she married her second husband, the archaeologist,

0:22:49 > 0:22:5515 years younger than herself, that she'd be like a faithful dog,

0:22:55 > 0:22:58because she loved dogs, but she would not be a dog on a lead.

0:22:58 > 0:23:02And then there's this exhibition of letters that's on at her former home

0:23:02 > 0:23:06- in South Devon.- In Greenway. - What do we learn from these letters?

0:23:06 > 0:23:09Well, many of the letters, I have some here...

0:23:09 > 0:23:12Many of the letters are the sort of letters that perhaps not you,

0:23:12 > 0:23:16but authors like me often feel like writing to their publisher.

0:23:16 > 0:23:18In fact, I rather overdid that in this book.

0:23:18 > 0:23:21"Authors don't just seem to matter and get pushed around.

0:23:21 > 0:23:24"My new book here at the stationer's window.

0:23:24 > 0:23:27"I have no book sent to me, never been told the date of publication."

0:23:27 > 0:23:29Arguments about the cover...

0:23:29 > 0:23:32"..Writing a very angry letter to my agent.

0:23:32 > 0:23:35"I do think you're treating your authors disgracefully."

0:23:35 > 0:23:39Now, of course, she was extremely valuable to her publisher

0:23:39 > 0:23:44and remains so, but this was a personal effusion.

0:23:44 > 0:23:46She minded enormously.

0:23:46 > 0:23:49But this is also fascinating at a time when, still,

0:23:49 > 0:23:52she was encouraged by her family to publish anonymously to begin with,

0:23:52 > 0:23:55when women novelists where a relative rarity, that she

0:23:55 > 0:23:58was that vociferous with her publishers and that demanding.

0:23:58 > 0:24:02Do you think that sort of attitude feeds into her female characters?

0:24:02 > 0:24:03To be perfectly honest,

0:24:03 > 0:24:06before I actually read one of these books, I would've said,

0:24:06 > 0:24:10"Oh, it's ditsy and dumb and dim-witted," but you read it

0:24:10 > 0:24:13and in And Then There Were None, Vera Claythorne is an absolutely

0:24:13 > 0:24:15cold-as-ice child murderer.

0:24:15 > 0:24:18You get totally drawn into her perspective and totally drawn

0:24:18 > 0:24:21into her world and totally drawn into the fact that she doesn't

0:24:21 > 0:24:25actually really mind about the fact that she's killed a kid.

0:24:25 > 0:24:27What she minds is that she's been caught,

0:24:27 > 0:24:29that she's going to have to face the music.

0:24:29 > 0:24:34Sophie, what about the female detectives? How do they strike you?

0:24:34 > 0:24:37Well, I mean, I think it's a bit weird that we're talking

0:24:37 > 0:24:38about her female characters.

0:24:38 > 0:24:42You know, I think she wrote women characters

0:24:42 > 0:24:47just as if they were people, as they are, so anything I would say about

0:24:47 > 0:24:50her female characters, I'd say about her male characters as well.

0:24:50 > 0:24:54I think she wrote brilliant, multi-dimensional characters

0:24:54 > 0:24:56who were capable of great evil,

0:24:56 > 0:24:59great self-deception, also great acts of kindness.

0:24:59 > 0:25:04- She just wrote human characters. - And what about Miss Marple?

0:25:04 > 0:25:07Miss Marple is a genius creation.

0:25:07 > 0:25:10She appears to be this little sweet old lady,

0:25:10 > 0:25:13but she's actually quite misanthropic.

0:25:13 > 0:25:16She has no illusions about people and what they're capable of

0:25:16 > 0:25:19and she has many conversations with her old lady friends where they

0:25:19 > 0:25:23say things like, "Oh, Jane, you do tend to think the worst of people."

0:25:23 > 0:25:26And she goes, "Yes, well, the worst is usually true, dear."

0:25:26 > 0:25:28So she's absolutely clear...

0:25:28 > 0:25:30Is she the closest thing to an Agatha Christie consciousness

0:25:30 > 0:25:32inside the novels?

0:25:32 > 0:25:34Yes, but I don't think she saw herself

0:25:34 > 0:25:37as manifesting herself in that way through the characters.

0:25:37 > 0:25:41Her plots are puzzles and here are these people who, yes,

0:25:41 > 0:25:46absolutely...she believed in evil, did Agatha Christie,

0:25:46 > 0:25:47as does Miss Marple.

0:25:47 > 0:25:50There is evil, and good can then come in

0:25:50 > 0:25:53and fortunately put everything straight again.

0:25:53 > 0:25:54- Let's hope.- Thank heavens for that.

0:25:54 > 0:25:57Agatha Christie's personal letters to her longstanding publisher

0:25:57 > 0:26:00Billy Collins are now on permanent display at Christie's former home

0:26:00 > 0:26:03Greenway in Devon and Janet Morgan's biography of Agatha Christie

0:26:03 > 0:26:06has recently been reissued by HarperCollins.

0:26:06 > 0:26:08That's it for our current series of Front Row,

0:26:08 > 0:26:10but we're back with a Turner Prize special on 2nd December.

0:26:10 > 0:26:12Thank you to my guests

0:26:12 > 0:26:14Sophie Hannah, Sarah Phelps, and Janet Morgan.

0:26:14 > 0:26:16If you want information and details about anything

0:26:16 > 0:26:18we've been talking about, do head to our website

0:26:18 > 0:26:20and of course there's arts, news, and reviews

0:26:20 > 0:26:23every weeknight on Radio 4's Front Row at 7.15.

0:26:23 > 0:26:26I leave you with Father John Misty performing

0:26:26 > 0:26:28When The God Of Love Returns There'll Be Hell to Pay

0:26:28 > 0:26:31from his latest album Pure Comedy.

0:26:31 > 0:26:32Good night.

0:26:44 > 0:26:48# When the god of love returns

0:26:50 > 0:26:54# There'll be hell to pay

0:26:56 > 0:27:01# And though the world may be out of excuses

0:27:01 > 0:27:04# I know just what I would say

0:27:07 > 0:27:12# Let the seven trumpets sound

0:27:13 > 0:27:17# As a locust sky grows dark

0:27:20 > 0:27:24# But first let's take you on a quick tour

0:27:24 > 0:27:28# Of your creation's handiwork

0:27:34 > 0:27:38# Barely got through the prisons and stores

0:27:40 > 0:27:44# And the pale horse looks a little sick

0:27:47 > 0:27:50# Says, Jesus, you didn't leave a whole lot for me

0:27:50 > 0:27:55# If this isn't hell already then tell me what the hell is?

0:28:01 > 0:28:08# Oh, and we say it's just human

0:28:08 > 0:28:13# Human nature

0:28:13 > 0:28:17# This is place is savage and unjust

0:28:21 > 0:28:26# We crawled out of the darkness

0:28:26 > 0:28:30# And endured your impatience

0:28:30 > 0:28:34# We're more than willing to adjust

0:28:36 > 0:28:43# And now you've got the gall to judge us

0:28:57 > 0:29:02# We just want light in the dark

0:29:04 > 0:29:07# And some warmth in the cold

0:29:10 > 0:29:16# And to make something out of nothing

0:29:17 > 0:29:21# Sounds like someone else I know. #