:00:28. > :00:34.Hello, and welcome to Talking Movies. I am Tom Brook. In today's
:00:35. > :00:38.programme, as people here in New York gathered to watch a movie
:00:39. > :00:43.outdoors, we report on America's blockbuster season, as the finish
:00:44. > :00:51.line approaches. What were the successes? Wonder woman, Guardians
:00:52. > :00:55.of the Galaxy volume two, and Spider-Man homecoming must count
:00:56. > :00:59.among them, but with so many uninspiring sequels there was a lot
:01:00. > :01:03.of franchise fatigue. It seems like lately that is the only thing that
:01:04. > :01:07.is coming out, and I want to see more creative content. And among the
:01:08. > :01:11.summer movies inspired by real events, Detroit, a report on the
:01:12. > :01:15.debate it revived over who was really qualified to tell black
:01:16. > :01:19.stories. Directors from other races don't know how to properly showcase
:01:20. > :01:25.like men and women living full lives. Then this summer's sleeper
:01:26. > :01:34.hits at the American box office. We look at one film that really broke
:01:35. > :01:38.new ground. As well as the sleeper hits of yesteryear. All that and
:01:39. > :01:48.more in this special blockbuster season review edition of talking
:01:49. > :01:53.movies. The big story at the American box office this summer was
:01:54. > :01:57.wonder woman, the first superhero blockbuster to be directed by a
:01:58. > :02:01.woman and make more money than any other summer film. Before we delve
:02:02. > :02:06.deeper into the picture, let's cast our minds back to Wonder Woman, with
:02:07. > :02:11.this review from BBC culture film critic Karen James. She is an
:02:12. > :02:15.anti-war feminist. She deflects bullets with her bracelets. She has
:02:16. > :02:19.a sword tucked into the back of her evening down. All that, and she is
:02:20. > :02:27.the superheroine of a thoroughly entertaining action movie. She is a
:02:28. > :02:32.princess named Diana, raised on an island off Amazon Warriors. When a
:02:33. > :02:35.plane crash as she reinvents the Princess Meth, rescuing her Prince
:02:36. > :02:40.Charming, an American intelligence officer played by Chris Pyne. Gal
:02:41. > :02:45.Gadot is terrific as Diana, charismatic and fierce. She and Pine
:02:46. > :02:51.bring a lot of deadpan wit to their romance. But what really sets this
:02:52. > :02:56.Wonder Woman apart from other superheroes is the sense of idealism
:02:57. > :02:59.and wonder Gal Gadot brings to the role. Whether her action sequences
:03:00. > :03:05.are set in the trenches of World War I or a bomb factory, they are crisp
:03:06. > :03:17.and lucid, dynamic, such a relief from the dark model of so many
:03:18. > :03:21.superhero movies. Why has Wonder Woman been such a big success, and
:03:22. > :03:26.will it leave a lasting impact on the movie landscape? To find out I
:03:27. > :03:31.sought the opinion of buzz feed film news critic Alison Willmore. Well,
:03:32. > :03:35.it was the first hugely successful female superhero movie. They have
:03:36. > :03:39.been ones in the past, attempts like Catwoman and Electra. But this was
:03:40. > :03:45.the first one to be an unqualified financial success. It has been
:03:46. > :03:51.proof, if proof is required, that a female lead superhero movie can have
:03:52. > :03:54.mass appeal. Many women reported having quite an emotional response
:03:55. > :03:58.when they watched Wonder Woman. What did the film give them that perhaps
:03:59. > :04:01.other films had not given them? I think that what wonder woman has
:04:02. > :04:05.given audiences, particularly female audiences, is this representation of
:04:06. > :04:10.themselves on screen. To be able to see this character kind of step onto
:04:11. > :04:13.a battlefield in the best seen in the movie, and commit herself to
:04:14. > :04:17.this act of kind of unqualified heroism. And there is something that
:04:18. > :04:21.is very moving about seeing a female character be put in the spotlight
:04:22. > :04:25.like that, in a genre that we have gotten very familiar with. So I
:04:26. > :04:34.think that there is certainly this feeling of a boundary being crossed.
:04:35. > :04:38.How instrumental was Patty Jenkins, the director of Wonder Woman, to its
:04:39. > :04:41.success? One of the things that is really refreshing about this movie
:04:42. > :04:45.is not just that it is so grounded in a female character and female
:04:46. > :04:48.experience, but that it looks at her without having to kind of, like,
:04:49. > :04:52.filter her through a Mail perspective, or filter her through
:04:53. > :04:55.the experiences of her love interest, played by Chris Pyne. So I
:04:56. > :04:59.think that that is something that you really sense with having a
:05:00. > :05:04.female director behind the camera. How can a woman fight in this? Many
:05:05. > :05:08.Hollywood executives used to say that men would not go to a superhero
:05:09. > :05:12.movie if there was a female protagonists. But they have been
:05:13. > :05:17.proved wrong with Wonder Woman, haven't they? You always see that
:05:18. > :05:21.female lead movies and movies with actors of colour, there is this
:05:22. > :05:24.burden on them, that they have to prove every time that these
:05:25. > :05:30.properties are viable, that they are not niche. There is a lot of
:05:31. > :05:34.pressure put on movies like this, that you are proof of a basic
:05:35. > :05:38.concept, not just the film succeeding in its own right. So I
:05:39. > :05:41.was really excited to see the success of Wonder Woman, and I am
:05:42. > :05:44.really interested to see where that leads, but I always think about
:05:45. > :05:48.something like Writes mates, which was a film which was supposed to
:05:49. > :05:51.usher in a new era of female lead superhero films, and it didn't
:05:52. > :05:58.really. Hollywood has been taught many lessons before about this, and
:05:59. > :06:01.it never seems to stick. What will be the lasting impact of Wonder
:06:02. > :06:05.Woman? There is going to be a sequel, but will it increase
:06:06. > :06:09.opportunities for women in the film business across the board, do you
:06:10. > :06:13.think I think that Wonder Woman is a big lesson. I just hope it is one
:06:14. > :06:17.that studios take, both in terms of its director and in terms of its
:06:18. > :06:20.main character. I think that just continued pressure from fans to say
:06:21. > :06:24.that this is important to them, as important as seeing as female
:06:25. > :06:34.superhero in front of the camera, I think that is what would make sure
:06:35. > :06:37.that that continues to happen. This summer at the box office there were
:06:38. > :06:44.several films inspired by real events, and director Christopher
:06:45. > :06:49.Nolan's Dunkirk and Al Gore's documentary on climate change. Then
:06:50. > :06:53.there was Detroit, a film based on the 1967 Detroit riots, directed by
:06:54. > :06:59.Catherine Bigelow. It sparked a fair bit of debate which is still
:07:00. > :07:04.ongoing. In Detroit, a city at war, violence continues. What is a black
:07:05. > :07:06.film? Is it possible for white filmmakers in Hollywood to
:07:07. > :07:14.adequately tell stories from a black respective? The film Detroit, set in
:07:15. > :07:21.Detroit, Michigan, and directed by a Kathryn Bigelow, has reignited this
:07:22. > :07:24.debate. The film depicts the Algiers motel incident where the cops during
:07:25. > :07:28.the riot thought there was a sniper in the motel, and they went and
:07:29. > :07:32.lined a bunch of people up against the wall, and kept them there for
:07:33. > :07:40.hours, and terrorise them. And by the time the incident was over,
:07:41. > :07:43.three African-Americans were dead. I got all night, people. The
:07:44. > :07:47.centrepiece of the movie is the 45 minute long motel sequence. Some
:07:48. > :07:51.have said that this is the most powerful part of the film, as it
:07:52. > :07:55.gives a window into the nature of police brutality, which is still
:07:56. > :07:58.present to this day. Others have said it is a nearly pornographic
:07:59. > :08:05.lynching sequence, and has little value. Let's not be stupid in this
:08:06. > :08:11.situation. The film was put together by a white director, Kathryn
:08:12. > :08:19.Bigelow, and a white writer, Mark Boal. So it didn't feature any black
:08:20. > :08:23.creators on the production team. I think the issue of who made this
:08:24. > :08:27.film and whether it should have been black filmmakers is on the one hand
:08:28. > :08:30.an important one to discuss, and to the extent that we need more
:08:31. > :08:35.talented people who are African-Americans behind the camera.
:08:36. > :08:39.On the other hand, it is a very dicey issue, and I think a very
:08:40. > :08:43.slippery slope, when you have some people saying that a film of this
:08:44. > :08:47.subject should not be made by white filmmakers. It seems like freedom of
:08:48. > :08:53.expression means, to me, that people should be able to make works of art
:08:54. > :08:57.about people of different races. It is a war zone out there. While there
:08:58. > :09:01.has been a backlash about the race of the creative team behind Detroit,
:09:02. > :09:10.white American film makers producing what may be considered black films
:09:11. > :09:16.is not uncommon. One of the most notable examples is Steven
:09:17. > :09:22.Spielberg's 1985 film the Colour Purple, adapted from Alice Walker's
:09:23. > :09:27.novel, and is accepted as a black film. However, there are those who
:09:28. > :09:32.upset that white filmmakers seem fixated on the oppression and
:09:33. > :09:37.struggle of black people. I think sometimes directors from other races
:09:38. > :09:43.don't know how to properly showcase black men and women living full
:09:44. > :09:50.lives, outside of the racism and trauma that we endure. Can a white
:09:51. > :09:55.director properly do that correctly? I don't doubt it. But it seems as if
:09:56. > :09:59.Hollywood only knows us for a few things, and trauma and endurance is
:10:00. > :10:03.one of them. Kathryn Bigelow and Anthony Mackie, who appears in the
:10:04. > :10:08.film, both agree that the goal of the project was to start a
:10:09. > :10:12.conversation. This film is a lot of black tragedy, and I don't know if
:10:13. > :10:18.African-Americans, people of colour, need to see any more tragedy in
:10:19. > :10:25.order for us to have a conversation about the very undeniable, systemic
:10:26. > :10:29.racism that has built this country. Although Detroit has not performed
:10:30. > :10:33.as well as expect that the box office this summer, it did cause
:10:34. > :10:37.controversy about representation in film. There is no guarantee that the
:10:38. > :10:40.movie would have been more successful if they were black
:10:41. > :10:43.filmmakers behind the camera, but one could speculate that much more
:10:44. > :10:47.of a conversation about the film would be focused on the quality of
:10:48. > :10:58.the filmmaking, and the message it attempts to convey. Now, let's move
:10:59. > :11:03.on to some of the other summer films. One sad reality is just how
:11:04. > :11:07.bad they were. The fact reflect that in seasonal box office revenues,
:11:08. > :11:12.which were several percentage points down on last year. The big problem,
:11:13. > :11:16.Fran fatigue. More and more sequels underperforming. For we investigate
:11:17. > :11:22.franchise fatigue further, let's look at one franchise sequel which
:11:23. > :11:33.it is generally agreed worked well. Spider-Man Homecoming. The people
:11:34. > :11:37.behind Spider-Man Homecoming have remembered something that makers of
:11:38. > :11:41.almost every other recent superhero film have forgotten, that if you are
:11:42. > :11:46.going to tell a story about someone in a colourful costume who can throw
:11:47. > :11:49.bad guys around like they are frisbees, then it should probably be
:11:50. > :11:53.fun for all the family. So never mind all the mass destruction and
:11:54. > :11:58.cosmic Doomsday Device is that we usually get. This is a warm, fast
:11:59. > :12:02.paced, coming-of-age comedy about a group of teenagers, one of whom
:12:03. > :12:06.happens to have been bitten by radioactive arachnid. Spider-Man has
:12:07. > :12:12.to struggle with the Vulture, played by Michael Keaton, who clears up all
:12:13. > :12:16.the debris after the avengers' city wrecking battles. He built himself a
:12:17. > :12:22.gigantic and surprisingly sinister set of robotic wings and goes into
:12:23. > :12:25.the super villain business. The fact he is a savage killer but also an
:12:26. > :12:29.ordinary, downtrodden working man, makes him one of the best baddies in
:12:30. > :12:37.the Marvel rogues gallery. The only problem is that there is too much in
:12:38. > :12:41.a two and a quarter hour film. It has too many characters and too many
:12:42. > :12:47.action set pieces, none of which is as spectacular in the equivalent Sam
:12:48. > :12:50.Remy films. Like its eager young protagonists, Spider-Man: Homecoming
:12:51. > :12:58.tries a bit too hard and it sometimes stumbles. Well, what did
:12:59. > :13:02.Spider-Man get right that enabled it to satisfy audiences, while other
:13:03. > :13:03.franchise films fell short as Mac to investigate franchise fatigue, we
:13:04. > :13:18.put together our own panel. Spiderman: Homecoming plays well
:13:19. > :13:25.because it almost plays like a John Hughes comedy. Tom is almost of high
:13:26. > :13:32.school age, so we really can capture teenage Peter Piper. Others were
:13:33. > :13:37.pushing in their 30s and couldn't quite capture the same thing. It is
:13:38. > :13:44.a wonderfully diverse cast and there are even some political points to
:13:45. > :13:48.it. The actor who plays MJ has this wonderful moment when they are on a
:13:49. > :13:51.school trip to Washington, DC and about to visit Washington monument
:13:52. > :13:55.and she says, I don't want to go there because it was built by
:13:56. > :13:59.slaves. It's like, this is a movie by Disney. They didn't have to put
:14:00. > :14:02.that line in there. I think it's important to point out that while
:14:03. > :14:06.Spiderman: Homecoming has done well, it's also as of now considered the
:14:07. > :14:13.lowest grossing Spiderman movie out of all of them. So even though that
:14:14. > :14:16.movie was a hit, there's still franchise fatigue. But the thing
:14:17. > :14:26.that's drawing people into movies that are doing well, like Wonder
:14:27. > :14:32.Woman, Spider Man, I think the Washington monument thing was a bit
:14:33. > :14:35.too easy. At the same time, seeing these movies that tend to appeal
:14:36. > :14:38.even more to people who are typically underrepresented, all of
:14:39. > :14:48.that is contributing. I think you are right. With The Mummy, this
:14:49. > :14:51.isn't a franchise yet but all of the press has been that they are
:14:52. > :15:01.starting a franchise and you can fill the audience being like, gosh,
:15:02. > :15:04.another one? It's going to be just drawing from Unviersal's classic
:15:05. > :15:09.horror movie characters - Frankenstein, Dracula, doctor Jack
:15:10. > :15:15.all. I don't think anyone is asking for that. It was one of the original
:15:16. > :15:20.franchises. That was the thing back in the 20s, 30s and 40s. But, yeah,
:15:21. > :15:27.we already saw the Brendan Fraser versions. I wonder if The Rock was
:15:28. > :15:32.in this one it might have been better. I think we all agree
:15:33. > :15:38.franchise fatigue is a problem. I went to the local cinema and asked
:15:39. > :15:42.some people what they thought. What do you think about the fact that
:15:43. > :15:46.there are so many franchises and C calls at the moment? I think it's a
:15:47. > :15:50.little bit lazy. It seems like lately that's the only thing coming
:15:51. > :15:57.out and I want to see more creative content. Things like Girls Trip. If
:15:58. > :16:02.you are in charge of Hollywood what change would you make to make block
:16:03. > :16:05.asked is better? Make it so that women feel more interactive and
:16:06. > :16:09.maybe racial diversity within a block afters. That might widen the
:16:10. > :16:15.SPAM. You think people have franchise fatigue? I think
:16:16. > :16:19.mainstream America does not, but those who actually appreciate cinema
:16:20. > :16:23.and what the movies are all used to be, definitively yes. Has there been
:16:24. > :16:27.any blockbuster this is that has delivered for you? No. There just
:16:28. > :16:32.isn't really a lot of enthusiasm there. That's the thing. Even with
:16:33. > :16:36.us talking about Spider-Man: Homecoming, we all said we liked it
:16:37. > :16:43.but none of us would say we loved it. Going into this year, I was
:16:44. > :16:47.really getting tired of the Marvel cinematic universe. I think maybe
:16:48. > :16:57.some of these block asked is art to male centric. If you look at the top
:16:58. > :17:01.grossing films of the year, Beauty and the Beast, Wonder Woman, but not
:17:02. > :17:08.many in this season. Hollywood is also very slow on the up take. They
:17:09. > :17:20.did an ounce Wonder Woman sequel, so we will see about that. I think A
:17:21. > :17:29.Wrinkle in Time will be a big deal. We have big actors. Oprah, and
:17:30. > :17:34.others that black women will support. Do you think Hollywood will
:17:35. > :17:38.change course or are we going to see Transformers movies until the end of
:17:39. > :17:44.time? I don't think anything in Hollywood is ever truly dead. We are
:17:45. > :17:53.in a circle now where it might take five years or a decade. I think with
:17:54. > :18:00.Spider Man it only took three years. So long as they are familiar
:18:01. > :18:04.properties and familiar to a modern audience, we are still going to get
:18:05. > :18:09.these. I love that basically you are saying that the plot of The Mummy is
:18:10. > :18:15.a metaphor for Hollywood. No matter how did it may seem, anything can
:18:16. > :18:26.come back to life at some point. Hollywood loves familiarity, no
:18:27. > :18:30.question about it. America in summertime almost always have a hit
:18:31. > :18:35.and this year the one that can claim that title is The Big Sick. It is
:18:36. > :18:41.the first romantic comedy to have a Muslim man as a leading man. It
:18:42. > :18:47.breaks new ground. I think dating this girl. She is white. It is based
:18:48. > :18:52.on a true Romance of the Pakistani actor and writer and comedian and
:18:53. > :18:56.follows his courtship with his future wife, his parents' efforts to
:18:57. > :19:01.force him into an arranged marriage with other women and his wife to
:19:02. > :19:06.be's grave illness. It is cowritten by him and his real-life wife. It is
:19:07. > :19:13.a blend of cross-cultural interaction. I've always wanted to
:19:14. > :19:21.have a conversation with... You've never spoken to people about 9-11?
:19:22. > :19:25.He is like the lead in any other romantic comedy, that it aims to
:19:26. > :19:30.destigmatise Muslim Americans in the eyes of the public. That would be
:19:31. > :19:36.ideal and great records Muslims need to be immortalised. I feel like
:19:37. > :19:44.we've taken a bunch of steps back. So that would be a great, happy
:19:45. > :19:47.side-effect of our movie. After years of negative media portrayals
:19:48. > :19:51.of Muslims in cinema, there seems to be an evolution in the presentation.
:19:52. > :19:56.The on-screen image of Muslims in entertainment is changing. This film
:19:57. > :20:01.is playing a role. What has been lacking is nuance. Only one time of
:20:02. > :20:07.Muslim is represented in the media. For a long time it was only one
:20:08. > :20:11.type. The terrorist, the bad guy. The Big Sick represents the nuance
:20:12. > :20:15.that already existing the country and by seeing that on the big screen
:20:16. > :20:21.it's going to have a tremendous effect on the way we view ourselves
:20:22. > :20:29.as a nation. I screwed up with your daughter. Yeah, you did. The Big
:20:30. > :20:34.Sick is one of this summer's sleeper hits, but what about years past?
:20:35. > :20:36.We've been looking back at some of the sleeper surprises that have
:20:37. > :20:43.emerged over the decades. The summer block us to roll out
:20:44. > :20:48.every year is pretty standard. Audiences are bombarded with
:20:49. > :20:52.promotional trailers, teachers and merchandise to promote the budget
:20:53. > :20:55.larger-than-life movies, specifically reserved for a
:20:56. > :21:01.summertime release. But not for this type of movie. Sleeper hit is a
:21:02. > :21:06.movie that opens quietly. It doesn't come in with a lot of publicity,
:21:07. > :21:14.with a lot of buzz. It often doesn't have huge stars in it. And it gained
:21:15. > :21:20.its popularity slowly, but steadily, and it just grows and grows and
:21:21. > :21:27.stays in theatres for a long time. Sometimes it's a very little movie,
:21:28. > :21:31.like My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which a lot of people remember. Everyone
:21:32. > :21:35.loved it and it stayed for a long time. But there are movies that
:21:36. > :21:40.people just loved and went to see and continued to go and see and over
:21:41. > :21:45.a period of time built up this myth about them. Are there any
:21:46. > :21:49.similarities between movies that become sleeper hits? One thing that
:21:50. > :21:53.always helps sleeper hits is if it serves an audience that's really not
:21:54. > :21:58.being served by most of the movies out there. Mamma Mia had money
:21:59. > :22:05.behind it. That was a Broadway musical. But they opened its
:22:06. > :22:10.opposite The Dark Knight and people thought, this movie is going to get
:22:11. > :22:14.killed. But it was just that all of the people who didn't want to see
:22:15. > :22:17.The Dark Knight and wanted to see a movie about all the women who wanted
:22:18. > :22:28.to see a musical, something comical, it really appealed to them. And over
:22:29. > :22:33.the years, some of the sleeper hits have really appeal to audiences and
:22:34. > :22:40.stayed in our hearts. Some critics think that the most successful
:22:41. > :22:44.sleeper hits just have heart. It feels like it's one person's story,
:22:45. > :22:52.one person's vision, whether that's the director or writer. You can feel
:22:53. > :23:02.their personality in The Sixth Sense, the author's personality on
:23:03. > :23:06.the screen in The Big Sick. Fast Times had a real persona, a human
:23:07. > :23:12.touch. Even when these movies tend to be more slick and professional,
:23:13. > :23:14.you feel something come through on the screen, sought from behind the
:23:15. > :23:28.screen. Through the screen to you. Well, that's it. If you enjoy those
:23:29. > :23:32.short reviews from BBC Culture earlier in the programme, you can
:23:33. > :23:41.find more on the BBC website. There are reviews of The Dark Tower and
:23:42. > :23:45.Detroit. From me and the rest of the Talking Movies production team,
:23:46. > :23:48.goodbye. We leave you with a music sequence from Baby Driver, and other
:23:49. > :24:37.superhit that emerged during blockbuster season. -- another.
:24:38. > :24:41.We're looking ahead to the weekend weather prospects.
:24:42. > :24:48.Let's delve into the weather menu and see what's on offer.