:00:00. > :00:10.Hello and welcome to the The Arts Show. Your monthly guide to the best
:00:11. > :00:16.arts and culture in Northern Ireland. It doesn't get much bigger
:00:17. > :00:21.than this - the Turner Prize. Out of England for the very first time and
:00:22. > :00:48.here in Derry, Londonderry, UK City of Culture, 2013.
:00:49. > :00:55.Now the Turner coming to town and being housed here in a former army
:00:56. > :00:58.barracks has been one of the most anticipated parts of the programme.
:00:59. > :01:06.Now it is open, we'll have reaction to it and more. As Hull is announced
:01:07. > :01:15.as UK City of Culture 2017, Ruth and Daniel review the jewel in London,
:01:16. > :01:20.Derry's line-up - the Turner Prize. Take one... I meet twice-Oscar
:01:21. > :01:27.nominated Seamus McGravey from Armagh, at his villa in Tuscany. 25
:01:28. > :01:42.years after his death, the legacy of one of Ireland's great greatest 20th
:01:43. > :01:49.century playwrights. Giving this year's lectures for Radio 4 perry
:01:50. > :01:55.Grayson said most of it is rubbish. He did not mention any names. I met
:01:56. > :02:01.him before he gave his election chur to a full -- lecture to a full hall.
:02:02. > :02:04.The fact it is in an army barracks on a hillside is an interesting
:02:05. > :02:09.thing. They should take advantage of that. What are the implications for
:02:10. > :02:13.Derry holding the Turner Prize? What is the pay-back? I was talking to
:02:14. > :02:19.people up in Newcastle and they had a huge number of visitors that came
:02:20. > :02:22.because the Turner Prize is a rallying point for people who are
:02:23. > :02:28.interested in the arts. I should think it would have a huge impact in
:02:29. > :02:33.terms of the number of visitors. And the Turner Prize and art in general
:02:34. > :02:46.- what influence does that have to the wider public this? Public --
:02:47. > :02:52.public? As I started address a contemporary art yis it was a nearby
:02:53. > :02:59.business. You felt you were up a back water that occasionally a boat
:03:00. > :03:03.would come up. 5.5 million people go to see every year. Contemporary art
:03:04. > :03:08.is more on the radar than it was. I am not saying it is a main-steam
:03:09. > :03:14.cultural activity N a way that might be weird if it was. We like to
:03:15. > :03:23.retain some edge, even though we are kidding ourselves. It's no less
:03:24. > :03:29.relevant than if an opera company, in festival is happening. I think
:03:30. > :03:33.the art world itself has become tired of that press coverage. The
:03:34. > :03:37.art world has become a beast of, oh, yes, out there are the haters and in
:03:38. > :03:43.here we are the contemporary art world. I would like to see more
:03:44. > :03:51.spats within the art world. You want to generate a few more? It is all
:03:52. > :03:56.different kind of tribes. Can it be a game changer for Derry, how it is
:03:57. > :04:03.perceived? Contemporary art can be used as picksy dust to sprinkle on
:04:04. > :04:08.places wanting regeneration. I am coming around to the belief that
:04:09. > :04:13.when a cultural landmark lands on a place it does have an effect, even
:04:14. > :04:17.to people who are not necessarily interested in culture. I don't like
:04:18. > :04:23.football, but to a certain extent you are pleased there is a football
:04:24. > :04:28.team the place where I live. And how someone who doesn't go to opera is
:04:29. > :04:34.pleased there is an opera house in their city. It is a focal point for
:04:35. > :04:39.civic energy. As a former winner, what did it do for you personally
:04:40. > :04:45.and professionalally? The turner -- and professionally? The Turner Prize
:04:46. > :04:49.has a very nice exhibition attached. I perhaps, at the time I was more
:04:50. > :04:54.cynical and I kind of thought, oh, this is fun and it will be a nice
:04:55. > :04:58.time to play with the media. Actually, it has a very good
:04:59. > :05:03.reputation in the wider art world. It is in the premier art prize in
:05:04. > :05:08.the world. It has a very good track record of good winners. Some great
:05:09. > :05:12.artists have won it. The Turner Prize - that is quite a calling card
:05:13. > :05:19.to have, I think. Did you believe it was a game changer for you as an
:05:20. > :05:27.Initially, I thought, no. Curiously, it is ten years on now, it has been
:05:28. > :05:32.a huge, it's had a huge effect I is a calling card. It is a -- effect.
:05:33. > :05:38.It is a calling card. It is a step I cannot go back down. Therefore, it
:05:39. > :05:42.is respected, it is on my CV. I have taken advantage of it. There are
:05:43. > :05:45.Turner Prize winners who have not taken advantage of it. I embraced
:05:46. > :05:49.the press, I embraced the media. I was interested in the media. I've
:05:50. > :05:58.had a media career since then. Perhaps, for me, it was a gift.
:05:59. > :06:15.And you can hear the Reflectors on the BBC iPlayer. The Turner Prize
:06:16. > :06:18.and controversy go hand-in-hand we commission commissioned our take.
:06:19. > :06:27.The Turner Prize is an insult to the memory of a great painter.
:06:28. > :06:34.It is traditionally awarded to whatever artistic shot jock has
:06:35. > :06:37.caught the fancy of an intellectually corrupt art
:06:38. > :06:42.establishment. Artists have always run out of ways to shock, so they
:06:43. > :06:49.are now majoring on audience participation.
:06:50. > :06:54.Really this reminds me of, and I like these amusing cartoons, but it
:06:55. > :07:00.is like an indulgent parent filling up his enormous fridge with
:07:01. > :07:03.children's drawings. The turner always includes a wide
:07:04. > :07:10.range of styles, from painting, to video, to performance. It is usually
:07:11. > :07:14.a snapshot of art at a particular moment.
:07:15. > :07:18.The show always attracts some sensationalist coverage which does
:07:19. > :07:22.not help people understand or appreciate the art. That is just
:07:23. > :07:27.what helps sell newspapers. The work in the Turn ser not usually shocking
:07:28. > :07:31.or even -- turner is not usually shocking or even controversial. It
:07:32. > :07:36.is by artists who consider their work carefully. Ignore the media
:07:37. > :07:40.coverage, that is just a distraction. Look instead at the
:07:41. > :07:43.art. There are plenty of good
:07:44. > :07:48.contemporary artists. We hear little of them. The art establishment
:07:49. > :07:52.decided the talent and skill were old fashioned virtues and they
:07:53. > :07:59.elevated conacceptual art which requires neither. Hence the rise to
:08:00. > :08:06.fame and fortune of self-pub cysts and producers of rubbish.
:08:07. > :08:12.The idea that you declare yourself an artist and say what you say is
:08:13. > :08:16.art is art, is nonsense. It has routined generations of students who
:08:17. > :08:21.went to art college to learn to draw or paint or skull p and were left
:08:22. > :08:29.untaught and told only ideas mattered and that skill paralysed
:08:30. > :08:33.creativity. So many thoughtful, clever artists
:08:34. > :08:38.show us how to think of the world in a different way. My outlook has been
:08:39. > :08:44.changed on more occasions than I remember.
:08:45. > :08:51.Of course some art yitss are lazy, and -- artists are lazy and art can
:08:52. > :08:58.be a fade. The whims of the art market or a handful of influential
:08:59. > :09:02.writeders. Would we stop -- writers. Would we stopwatching films because
:09:03. > :09:09.there are some film makers we don't like? The Turner experience is
:09:10. > :09:14.always a con, wherever it is. I hope Derry can break free of this
:09:15. > :09:20.destruction of dealers and galleries and directors and curators,
:09:21. > :09:26.dominated by Sir Nicholas, the emperor in charge of what he calls
:09:27. > :09:30.Brand Tate. A gallery should be run by independent-minded people, who
:09:31. > :09:38.challenge fashion and embrace and develop young talent.
:09:39. > :09:42.Tino Sehgal's return to talk about market economics in return for a
:09:43. > :09:50.pound feels gimmicky. We are not allowed to film it in Gallery 4.
:09:51. > :09:53.David Shrigley's life drawing studio gets viewers to engage with art
:09:54. > :09:59.making, immediately they walk into the show. A lot of the work here is
:10:00. > :10:03.about art, or image-making. That seems appropriate. Hopefully the
:10:04. > :10:11.Turner can raise the profile of visionary arts in Derry long after
:10:12. > :10:20.this show is finished. Now, with Oscar and BAFTA
:10:21. > :10:27.nominations, Seamus McGravey is regarded as one of the film world's
:10:28. > :10:33.most gifted cinematographers. He is about to start to film on 50 Shades
:10:34. > :10:40.of Grey, with another Irish man. I caught up with Seamus during a rare
:10:41. > :10:43.break from work at his home in Tuscany.
:10:44. > :10:50.I love the light here. It's a total polar opposite to what I grew up
:10:51. > :11:02.with. It is a long way from Armagh. It is
:11:03. > :11:07.what What is the difference between a cinematographer and a cameraman?
:11:08. > :11:15.We see those titles in the end credits all the time? I would say
:11:16. > :11:22.about $10,000 a week. One is a very fancy title. I call
:11:23. > :11:29.myself a cameraman. Anybody who asks me, I say I am a cameraman. Nobody
:11:30. > :11:34.knows what a cinematographer. If I am in the States, I have an
:11:35. > :11:38.operator. So, I am not allowed to actually operate the camera, which
:11:39. > :11:42.is a terrible thing. You are physically not allowed to touch it?
:11:43. > :11:47.You are allowed to touch it, but the operator makes the moves. If you are
:11:48. > :11:52.working with an operator you can trust, like for instance, I work a
:11:53. > :11:56.great one, Peter Robinson, who did the famous steady hand-shot in
:11:57. > :12:01.Atonement. Once the shot was planned, all I did was run after him
:12:02. > :12:06.like a little puppy and he did the shot I was all the available light,
:12:07. > :12:11.planned. I did some zooming and a bit of exposure changes during the
:12:12. > :12:19.shot, but he did that shot. And that actually, that shot basically I
:12:20. > :12:26.think got me an Oscar nomination. It was all his doing. I thanked him in
:12:27. > :12:31.the speech. But he was not getting the award. You should be grateful
:12:32. > :12:37.you are not wounded. They leave the wounded behind.
:12:38. > :12:45.Never trust a sailor on dry land. You are best off out of it.
:12:46. > :12:51.When you are on set with great Hollywood star stars, as you were in
:12:52. > :12:56.the Hours, do they look at you first? They know you have looked at
:12:57. > :13:02.them through the camera, or do they look to the director? What is the
:13:03. > :13:06.relationship there? Because you are right there by the camera it is you.
:13:07. > :13:12.The director is further back, by the monitor. It is that initial gaze to
:13:13. > :13:16.the camera. It seems a very intimate, privileged position? It is
:13:17. > :13:20.a privileged position. It 's difficult in many ways because
:13:21. > :13:25.certain actresses want to look great. Sometimes a role doesn't
:13:26. > :13:32.demand it. And that's a very difficult position
:13:33. > :13:37.to be in, as a DP, because you want to be in service of the story, but
:13:38. > :13:45.you don't want to be fired. You know, merry streep's is playing a --
:13:46. > :13:51.Merly Streep is playing a middle-aged woman in New York. I am
:13:52. > :13:57.not glamorising that. It is ad hoc photography.
:13:58. > :14:02.And suddenly I'm in a room with her saying, I cannot look like this! It
:14:03. > :14:08.is very scary sometimes when you are working with Hollywood actors and
:14:09. > :14:12.producers, and the actress is not happy and you don't want to be
:14:13. > :14:15.fired. At the same time you want to do your best work. I think I am only
:14:16. > :14:30.staying alive to satisfy you. Well, so, that is what we do! That
:14:31. > :14:36.is what people do. They stay alive for each other. I ended up
:14:37. > :14:39.compromising by putting a defusion filter and lighting her softer,
:14:40. > :14:48.which I actually think is wrong for the film and for all her close-ups
:14:49. > :14:55.look too glamorous for my tastes. Built a special light for her. It
:14:56. > :14:58.was called the street light. Every time we came out it was like
:14:59. > :15:05.# Street light # You have to do that sometimes!
:15:06. > :15:09.Just back home here in Italy after filming Godzilla on location in
:15:10. > :15:12.Hawaii, do you have to pinch yourself at the way things have
:15:13. > :15:18.turned out? Yes. I have been really lucky. I have been so lucky with the
:15:19. > :15:23.way things have turned out in my career. A couple of really lucky
:15:24. > :15:31.breaks from the earliest low-budget films that just kind of became
:15:32. > :15:39.culty, like Butterfly Kiss or being in a bar in Edinburgh and meeting
:15:40. > :15:51.Stephen Friars and him saying, my cameraman pulled out of High
:15:52. > :15:56.Fidelity... Do you ever get nervous? It is when I drive in the morning
:15:57. > :16:02.before shooting has begun. Where we shot the Aven gers, you are in the
:16:03. > :16:07.middle of the desert. You drive over this dusty hill in the middle of
:16:08. > :16:14.nowhere. Suddenly there is truck after truck, after truck. Through
:16:15. > :16:20.the circles of hell I was like Dante's inferno. You go through
:16:21. > :16:24.lawyers of trucks. You think -- layers of trucks. You think the
:16:25. > :16:30.money which has been spent and the responsibility you have and mess it
:16:31. > :16:38.up today, this costs so much money. Then you get to the inner sank up
:16:39. > :16:43.the. It is like the -- sanctum. Nothing changes - it is you, the
:16:44. > :16:51.actor, a couple of lights and the silence. As soon as this happens...
:16:52. > :16:57.And action! It is total silence and you are there. That is my home. That
:16:58. > :17:01.is when you can actually start looking and thinking and making
:17:02. > :17:07.pictures. Let's talk about two Oscar
:17:08. > :17:13.dominations for Atonement and working with Joe Wright, a chemistry
:17:14. > :17:18.there. Were you gutted not to get the golden trophy? No. Not at all!
:17:19. > :17:24.I was not. I was so shocked that I actually got
:17:25. > :17:28.nominated for both of those films. It was a great experience. I went
:17:29. > :17:33.along and had a laugh. It was, I wasn't nervous. I sort of didn't
:17:34. > :17:37.expect to walk up there. Will you ever come back and make a
:17:38. > :17:41.film in Northern Ireland? I would love to. Nobody ever asks me.
:17:42. > :17:43.Hopefully if they watch this they will realise. Seamus McGravey, thank
:17:44. > :18:02.you so much. Cheers! Thank you! Seamus McGravey. Now it is 25 years
:18:03. > :18:07.since the death of Belfast born skaf Stuart Parker, a playwright and
:18:08. > :18:12.music critic, he wrote extensively for radio, stage and screen. Cut
:18:13. > :18:17.down by cancer at 47, Parker left an extraordinary body of work which
:18:18. > :18:20.established him as the most innovative playwright to emerge from
:18:21. > :18:25.Belfast and arguably one of Ireland's greatest 20th century
:18:26. > :18:30.playwrights. Stuart pointed us towards the light. Standing in the
:18:31. > :18:41.heart of tragedy, versed in the tradition of great theatre, utterly
:18:42. > :18:47.certain of the probity of his vision and...
:18:48. > :18:53.He was my uncle. My chief memory of him of course was he was the most
:18:54. > :19:02.stimulating, interesting, funny person I had ever met. He was born
:19:03. > :19:07.on Larkfield Road, lived his early childhood in a solidly,
:19:08. > :19:13.working-class part of East Belfast. I was a fairly sickly child and read
:19:14. > :19:22.a lot and lived in a world of dreams. What else could I do but
:19:23. > :19:31.write? From his first hit, to northern star, to his final play -
:19:32. > :19:36.set during the UWC strike of 1974, Stuart Parker wrote about live in a
:19:37. > :19:43.divided society, by putting our shared human dramas centre-stage.
:19:44. > :19:48.Catch Penny Twist told the story of three young people in the music
:19:49. > :19:52.business. It was the first full-length TV drama made here. It
:19:53. > :19:56.was rather exciting to have a big play for today production being made
:19:57. > :20:04.right here, you know, with mostly local people. The carriages are all
:20:05. > :20:10.running away from something. Roy and Martin are variously running away
:20:11. > :20:15.from their past. Mona is trying to run away from herself. It is medium
:20:16. > :20:21.rare! It is still bleeding! It is the
:20:22. > :20:27.control of that that he's good at. You know you can get food poisoning?
:20:28. > :20:31.Shut your face! He believed you could be very funny
:20:32. > :20:37.and be very serious at the same time. I'm not eating that!
:20:38. > :20:50.Take the chicken - you can only set it to music!
:20:51. > :20:56.That's a good example of the humour being right next to something much
:20:57. > :21:06.darker. Get the bird!
:21:07. > :21:12.Oven-ready chicken. Parker's plays also use music to tell a story. I
:21:13. > :21:17.think music the ultimate art form. I spend a lot of time listening to it.
:21:18. > :21:24.It has always been central to my writing. The reviews treated rock
:21:25. > :21:29.music as a serious art form. The 70s were the days of Eurovision. He
:21:30. > :21:35.served on a British panel to pick the entry from Britain. As he said
:21:36. > :21:46.the song with the most intense degree with cheerful...
:21:47. > :21:52.# Save all your kisses for me # Goodbye...
:21:53. > :21:59.There was a parody of a Eurovision-type song contest.
:22:00. > :22:05.Say goodbye to zigzag song. Come along, let it ring.
:22:06. > :22:11.The play was about the pernicious effect of commercialism on art.
:22:12. > :22:16.Don't be a cry baby # If you want to be my baby
:22:17. > :22:21.His writing is complicated. It is not easy. It is the collar ritty of
:22:22. > :22:27.the vision. -- clarity of the vision. That income pusses the value
:22:28. > :22:32.garty of show business as well as the poetry, which is high art.
:22:33. > :22:50.# It is something money can't buy Now, the Turner Prize coming to
:22:51. > :22:54.Derry, Londonderry was built as the highlight of this year's City of
:22:55. > :22:59.Culture. With me is a panel of experts from the art world. Peter,
:23:00. > :23:04.what has been your reaction to the Turner Prize this year? This is the
:23:05. > :23:10.first year that the Turner Prize can be accused of being meaningful, of
:23:11. > :23:14.having depth, of having something for ordinary people who wouldn't see
:23:15. > :23:19.themselves dead inside an art gallery normally. Some of the work
:23:20. > :23:26.was complex. Some was ambiguous. At all times you felt involved in it.
:23:27. > :23:30.And, I have not felt that before at a Turner Prize exhibition. And, did
:23:31. > :23:36.you feel the same? I did. I think that is really true, that you move
:23:37. > :23:40.from one artist's work to the next. You are challenged all the time to
:23:41. > :23:46.move in and out of different ideas and spaces. For you? I have enjoyed
:23:47. > :23:52.it. I enjoyed the exhibition. It is challenging. I think that's very
:23:53. > :23:59.much within the spirit of other Turner Prizes. You think back to
:24:00. > :24:05.Martin Creed's work, with the lights going off and on. It is in a similar
:24:06. > :24:10.vein. You have a straightforward exhibition of paintings as well. The
:24:11. > :24:15.work that is on show is not what the four art yitss are being judged on
:24:16. > :24:20.-- artists are being judged on. There are two things here. There is
:24:21. > :24:24.the hinterland of all the exhibitions they have previously
:24:25. > :24:28.done and the work you are actually seeing here. So, for the audiences,
:24:29. > :24:32.in a way, you can't help judging what you see. You know, the
:24:33. > :24:39.excitement of each of the individual artists here. For me, Laure
:24:40. > :24:44.Prouvost's work is astonishingly powerful and works on so many
:24:45. > :24:54.levels, so quick in all the resonances and the flashes of ideas
:24:55. > :24:59.that come. It is so... You are almost breathless at the end. Let's
:25:00. > :25:06.talk about David Shrigley. He was the bookie's favourite. For me, it
:25:07. > :25:14.was joy! And joyous. Is that not what... I agree. It is very funny.
:25:15. > :25:20.It is humorous and I don't find it offensive at all. It is perhaps a
:25:21. > :25:27.reflection on who we are as a people that we find some of the objective
:25:28. > :25:33.in that. He's better known for the humorous small sculptures, the works
:25:34. > :25:38.that are kind of easier to kind of accommodate and also kind of
:25:39. > :25:43.one-liners. He's chosen not to do that, but for a bigger statement. It
:25:44. > :25:51.is a brave move. Do you ever get tired though of the mock eerie that
:25:52. > :25:57.comes of the -- mockery that comes of the Turner Prize? Perhaps the
:25:58. > :26:08.Tate endull ening a bit in this themselves -- endull indulge a bit
:26:09. > :26:12.in this themselves. To be this contem chous of it is a luxury that
:26:13. > :26:18.we cannot really afford. What people are, I think, put off by is panels
:26:19. > :26:22.like this, people like us sitting talking about it. Once you actually
:26:23. > :26:29.get into the exhibition it is pretty good. It is interesting, you can
:26:30. > :26:39.engage with it. There's a whiff about the Turner Prize and in fact,
:26:40. > :26:44.as people coming in through the doors of Ebrington, it is not going
:26:45. > :26:49.to bite you. As a curator, you walk into these buildings which are of
:26:50. > :26:57.Tate standard now, to think they are going to go back into, I mean they
:26:58. > :27:01.are not just offices, it is a creative, digital media sector, but
:27:02. > :27:05.effectively they are returning to offices.
:27:06. > :27:11.I think it is worse than that. It is complete tragedy because the gallery
:27:12. > :27:14.spaces that you have now are of a quality that you could show
:27:15. > :27:19.anything. There's no limit to what can be brought to the city, or what
:27:20. > :27:26.can be kept in the city as a collection. To have this here, for
:27:27. > :27:31.the future is essential. All the work has been done for that.
:27:32. > :27:36.It is really... The really financial hit has happened. Now it is there.
:27:37. > :27:46.It is a good, solid building, great fasy tis. It is a maintenance
:27:47. > :27:54.operation. That is - it means this belongs to this place and it will
:27:55. > :27:58.continue working as an art space. If it does not happen, the signal is we
:27:59. > :28:02.don't deserve it, we are not good enough for it and that Derry can't
:28:03. > :28:08.maintain a relationship with the international art world. There's a
:28:09. > :28:14.really dynamic visual arts culture in this city at the moment. Perhaps
:28:15. > :28:18.some of the larger, more established art exhibition spaces open to the
:28:19. > :28:21.public in Northern Ireland could redirect some of their fundings
:28:22. > :28:26.towards the north-west. Thank you very much for your thoughts tonight.
:28:27. > :28:35.Thank you all. APPLAUSE
:28:36. > :28:44.And that's it from The Arts Show, from the UK's City of Culture. You
:28:45. > :28:53.can join me on Twitter with your thoughts on Turner straight after
:28:54. > :28:59.the show. Keep up-to-date on BBC Radio Ulster, week night nights.
:29:00. > :29:03.We are back on the 12th December, with our last show of 2013. Until
:29:04. > :29:09.then, good night.