:00:00. > :00:00.And on BBC Newsline tonight: A Health Trust admits liability for
:00:00. > :00:09.the deaths of two children in its care.
:00:10. > :00:12.And the Director of Public Prosecutions says anyone who helps
:00:13. > :01:00.a woman go to Britain for an abortion is not committing a crime.
:01:01. > :01:06.This programme contains some strong language. On tonight's Arts Show In
:01:07. > :01:08.Conversation, I talk to one of Ireland's foremost contemporary
:01:09. > :01:11.composers in theatre, film and television, whose work has been
:01:12. > :01:14.performed all over the globe from Mostar to Ground Zero and which has
:01:15. > :01:17.even been heard on International Space Station. Neil Martin is a
:01:18. > :01:19.Belfast composer, broadcaster and multi-instrumentalist on cello,
:01:20. > :01:22.Uilleann pipes, low whistle and piano. He's performed with everyone
:01:23. > :01:26.from The Dubliners, The Chieftains to Mary Black and Christy Moore. He
:01:27. > :01:29.also writes and performs with the acclaimed West Ocean String Quartet.
:01:30. > :01:32.A musical pioneer, his signature style is to mix the Irish and
:01:33. > :01:41.classical genres together. Neil Martin, welcome to The Arts Show.
:01:42. > :01:45.Why do you do it? I love it. I love it. I loved it. My earliest memory
:01:46. > :01:49.of life as a child of three, on a Sunday morning and my father would
:01:50. > :01:52.play B minor mass on the old record player. I can still hear the song
:01:53. > :01:57.and the smell I remember of my mother making a fry. That was the
:01:58. > :02:00.start of my life and I still love Bach and fried food. Both together?
:02:01. > :02:05.Not so much these days. I've loved music from the very start. I was
:02:06. > :02:08.very lucky in life because my parents had a very, very broad
:02:09. > :02:11.eclectic taste in their record collection. There was Bach, Mozart,
:02:12. > :02:14.Beethoven, the Beatles, film scores, hand written labels, part of them
:02:15. > :02:19.written in pen. Louis Armstrong 1927. We grew up with all these
:02:20. > :02:26.different styles of music frequently being played. That must have had a
:02:27. > :02:30.big bearing on us as kids. As a youngster, Neil took up the cello
:02:31. > :02:33.and Uilleann pipes and in a sign of things to come will play both
:02:34. > :02:38.traditional Irish and classical on each instrument. If you went to your
:02:39. > :02:41.music teacher and said, I am also playing the Uilleann pipes and
:02:42. > :02:45.liking this low whistle as well, what did they say? Were they purists
:02:46. > :02:50.and snobs? Did they say that the two couldn't mix? There were certain
:02:51. > :02:54.people from the traditional side who said you play Uilleann pipes and you
:02:55. > :02:57.play the cello, you can't be a proper piper. Thankfully I didn't
:02:58. > :03:06.take them too seriously because I knew within myself that these two
:03:07. > :03:09.parallel tracks were comfortable. Hearing traditional Irish on the
:03:10. > :03:15.cello doesn't sound as strange as saying it. No, it seemed an
:03:16. > :03:18.absolutely natural progression for me and I have always found that it
:03:19. > :03:31.has worked, especially in slower music. It works extremely well. It
:03:32. > :03:35.has that melancholy human range that the cello does. That seems to suit
:03:36. > :03:56.the timbre of traditional music very well.
:03:57. > :04:02.As a teenager in the mid-1970s learning the Uilleann pipes, you had
:04:03. > :04:05.the great fortune to encounter one of your musical idols, Liam O'Flynn,
:04:06. > :04:06.who was then enjoying huge success as part of Irish folk supergroup,
:04:07. > :04:17.Planxton. He also taught you as well. Liam
:04:18. > :04:27.did, when I was a young fellow. My God was Liam O'Flynn. I was learning
:04:28. > :04:33.the pipes. I went to a week of classes. This particular year, Liam
:04:34. > :04:37.O'Flynn was the Olympic tutor. It completely transformed my way of
:04:38. > :04:39.thinking about pipes. He gave me lots of exercise and technique and
:04:40. > :05:34.showed me lots of things. In Northern Ireland, if you have an
:05:35. > :05:38.interest in Irish music and culture you are considered as coming from
:05:39. > :05:42.one side. Have you ever had to encounter that as a musician? Yes, a
:05:43. > :05:45.bit, certainly in the 1970s as a young fella going through town, for
:05:46. > :05:49.example, with a set of Uilleann pipes. You would be searched and so
:05:50. > :05:52.on and sometimes not savoury things were said because of the association
:05:53. > :06:01.of Irish music with a particular type of religion or set of beliefs.
:06:02. > :06:04.We grew up in a very good house with very open-minded parents and there
:06:05. > :06:11.was never any hatred or bigotry, not a syllable of it in-house. I
:06:12. > :06:17.wouldn't have let the narrow minded person get to me growing up. Do you
:06:18. > :06:24.feel that it is safer to articulate that now? Post the Good Friday
:06:25. > :06:27.agreement? Is it a safer place to be that musician now?
:06:28. > :06:30.It probably is and also the advancement here has given other
:06:31. > :06:36.people who hitherto might not have declared openly the love of Irish
:06:37. > :06:40.language of Irish music. I think it has given a greater confluence to
:06:41. > :06:46.those people to say, this is our language, this is our music. It
:06:47. > :06:50.belongs to all of us who have pins on this island. Language and music
:06:51. > :06:58.are beyond religion and politics. Even in the late 18th century, Irish
:06:59. > :07:02.culture was a point of contention and an unlikely figure, a Belfast
:07:03. > :07:08.organist, paved the way for future students of Irish traditional music.
:07:09. > :07:11.Edward Bunting was engaged by some terrifically far-sighted
:07:12. > :07:16.Presbyterians in the end of the 18th century Belfast. At the last
:07:17. > :07:22.gathering, these harpers hobbled into Belfast and with the end of the
:07:23. > :07:31.road. Bunting provided this essential link with the old world.
:07:32. > :07:34.Because it was written down. We are strong on broken lane from those
:07:35. > :07:37.Belfast men through to the Chieftains and Riverdance and
:07:38. > :07:45.Michael Flatley and all of those other things that are connected. He
:07:46. > :07:52.brought out three books and I have some originals. One of them is
:07:53. > :07:57.signed by Bunting himself. If the house was on fire, what would you
:07:58. > :08:03.grab first? 1809. And my cello in the other hand and the kids could
:08:04. > :08:07.get out at some point. I very often go back to the source of Bunting and
:08:08. > :08:09.look at it. The older I get, the more I appreciate the importance of
:08:10. > :08:18.all of that. After studying the music and Celtic
:08:19. > :08:22.studies at Queen's University, his daughter to carve out a career as a
:08:23. > :08:32.musician touring with the likes of Phil Coulter. -- he started. Writing
:08:33. > :08:37.tunes since the age of ten he began to find his voice as a composer. In
:08:38. > :08:40.1988, a last-minute invitation from Field Day Theatre Company to perform
:08:41. > :08:43.with them led to his first theatre commission. Actor, Stephen Rea,
:08:44. > :08:49.recognised his potential and the following year commissioned him to
:08:50. > :08:53.score for a play about Oscar Wilde. You have done a lot of work with the
:08:54. > :08:58.Field Day Theatre Company in the early 90s when they approached you
:08:59. > :09:02.to do something. Is there a different approach that you have as
:09:03. > :09:11.a composer or is it always the story that drives the music on? There are
:09:12. > :09:16.a lot of things. You have to be aware of the different media for
:09:17. > :09:23.which you are writing. The film music needs to say a certain thing
:09:24. > :09:26.in a certain way. Ditto theatre. Each area I find myself writing in
:09:27. > :09:30.has its own particular set of demands and you need to be faithful
:09:31. > :09:36.to those and understand what those demands are. You also need a very
:09:37. > :09:39.good director and you need to listen very carefully to what the director
:09:40. > :09:43.tells you and interpret their feelings and try and get behind
:09:44. > :09:50.sometimes the words that they are saying. Try and understand the
:09:51. > :09:56.emotion that they are trying to impart in their production. There
:09:57. > :10:02.are a whole lot of things. Different hats, yes, there are different hats.
:10:03. > :10:07.More theatre work followed. Marie Jones commissioned him for her
:10:08. > :10:16.programme on HRT. He also had to write for Northern Star. One day in
:10:17. > :10:22.1987, he unexpectedly heard from his former piping mentor, Liam O'Flynn.
:10:23. > :10:25.I got a phone call from Liam O'Flynn whom I haven't seen in the
:10:26. > :10:30.intervening years saying that he was thinking of starting a group and
:10:31. > :10:36.would like to join him. That was another huge reward. Liam had seen
:10:37. > :10:39.and heard some things that I had done with the cello and Irish music
:10:40. > :10:46.and he was naturally drawn towards the combination of pipes and cello.
:10:47. > :10:50.It works very well as a medium. The two have collaborated in various
:10:51. > :10:54.ways ever since. In 2004, Neil won his first and large-scale orchestral
:10:55. > :10:59.commission. The opening concert of the Belfast Festival at Queens. For
:11:00. > :11:06.it he composed the pipe concerto, No Tongue Can Tell, for Liam. Do you
:11:07. > :11:10.have a favourite medium? In this last decade because I have had the
:11:11. > :11:11.opportunity to do it more, orchestral writing. I love writing
:11:12. > :11:22.large-scale stuff. You are such a convivial person. I
:11:23. > :11:27.can't imagine you sitting in this room trying to compose. I do have a
:11:28. > :11:33.discipline. I still ask very hard questions of myself when I'm writing
:11:34. > :11:36.music. I do not let myself away with anything that I am not happy with. I
:11:37. > :11:41.never have said, that'll do because it won't. You have to be able to
:11:42. > :11:48.stand over every little thing that you write because every little thing
:11:49. > :11:50.isimportant. He has since won many orchestral commissions including
:11:51. > :11:59.Further Shore and the ambitious choral symphony, Ossa.
:12:00. > :12:05.It took me a year to write this piece of music and that is a very
:12:06. > :12:11.solitary kind of station that you are on for that year but in music.
:12:12. > :12:15.It is not until humans react with those little black circles on a page
:12:16. > :12:19.that the music, you hear it for the first time. It is a massive honour
:12:20. > :12:22.when you hear a full symphony orchestra and 120 singers singing
:12:23. > :12:28.and playing music that you spent with rally in your head for a year.
:12:29. > :12:34.That is such a liberation. The deadline is terrific news for
:12:35. > :12:38.anybody who is a professional creator of anything. There are
:12:39. > :12:42.moments of absolute terror in my life when I have found myself lying
:12:43. > :12:49.on the floor wondering why I started this piece of music. Should I send
:12:50. > :12:54.the money back? I have never given up and I have always won that
:12:55. > :13:01.battle. Sometimes you are staring into a wall and you need to get a
:13:02. > :13:04.result. He has also written for film and television including the movie,
:13:05. > :13:12.Hells Pavement and the award-winning TV drama, Food For Ravens. Come to
:13:13. > :13:15.me, my lovely and no delays. The road ahead awaits us. And better
:13:16. > :13:28.days. She never came. Sometimes I write
:13:29. > :13:34.for film, theatre and concert, stage and orchestra. I think maybe all of
:13:35. > :13:36.those early influences of my parents re-emerged later in life in all of
:13:37. > :13:43.that music. Alongside his composing, Neil's
:13:44. > :13:47.first performance has been satisfied with his West Ocean String Quartet
:13:48. > :13:53.which he co-founded and for which he writes and arranges all the
:13:54. > :13:57.material. All four of their albums have been played upon the
:13:58. > :14:04.International Space Station. It is a democracy where I write and arrange
:14:05. > :14:12.all the music for the quartet. It is absolutely where I am between worlds
:14:13. > :14:15.and traditional music. Where as I do write it, we rehearse together and I
:14:16. > :14:21.am open to any suggestions that my colleagues make. We don't need to
:14:22. > :14:27.spoon-feed each other and they all make wonderful music or
:14:28. > :14:33.contributions to the end product. Do you write mostly for the cello and
:14:34. > :14:40.do you write solos for yourself? I am not that vain. I don't. I am very
:14:41. > :14:45.conscious of the strengths of the four of us so I write to the
:14:46. > :14:52.strengths of the individuals. It is tailored for that. I shy away from
:14:53. > :15:04.too many cello solos. Let them do the hard work.
:15:05. > :15:09.And that's become very much your signature style, hasn't it, to marry
:15:10. > :15:17.the two together and have that fusion? It's the space in between
:15:18. > :15:22.music. I get great comfort and happiness and succour in there. And
:15:23. > :15:26.once you get in there and you are in between the worlds looking round
:15:27. > :15:30.you, it is without limit. It is an intriguing, beguiling place. Do you
:15:31. > :15:33.feel like you have been a pioneer? Maybe that is for other people to
:15:34. > :15:36.judge, but certainly there was no one a playing uilleann pipes and
:15:37. > :15:43.cello together when I was growing up. Is there still? I would not be
:15:44. > :15:47.surprised if there were people doing it now. Certainly, there was nobody
:15:48. > :15:51.really using the cello in traditional music before myself.
:15:52. > :16:43.That was no great master plan, it's just how my life happened.
:16:44. > :16:47.As social personality, Neil is popular amongst his peers and
:16:48. > :16:54.renowned for his mischievous sense of humour. You have become so many
:16:55. > :17:00.people's friend as well. Everybody knows Neil Martin. They know that
:17:01. > :17:06.twinkle in the eye and the penchant for limericks as well. We will gloss
:17:07. > :17:11.over that. How do you combine the two? How do you have that really
:17:12. > :17:14.humorous side to you but then you come out and you play this angelic
:17:15. > :17:19.music. I have always wondered how the two go together. I don't know. I
:17:20. > :17:23.am not going to analyse that one. The friendship thing is great I
:17:24. > :17:27.think, in life. Music is a wonderful passport. My own children are
:17:28. > :17:31.discovering this as they travel to various parts of the world playing
:17:32. > :17:33.music. It is a terrific passport and it immediately bridges you with
:17:34. > :17:37.other people who have similar interests, regardless of race or
:17:38. > :17:43.religion or creed or anything. It just breaks all of that down. They
:17:44. > :17:47.are not barriers. I think the friendship thing I have developed
:17:48. > :17:54.through music is kind of part and parcel of the thing. As regards my
:17:55. > :18:00.own body humour, that is how it is. It is fine. A lot of musicians know
:18:01. > :18:07.bad jokes. That is how you let off steam? Yes. Neil shared a long
:18:08. > :18:13.friendship with the late Nobel Prize-winning poet Seamus Heaney. He
:18:14. > :18:19.was honoured to play alongside his old friend Liam O'Flynn at Seamus'
:18:20. > :18:27.funeral. That must have been such a huge responsibility? Yes, it was. I
:18:28. > :18:32.can think of no better way, it was a massive responsibility. Both of us
:18:33. > :18:36.were very close. As you know, Liam played often with Seamus Heaney. A
:18:37. > :18:41.couple of weeks before Seamus died, they had played together, memorably
:18:42. > :18:46.up in Derry. It was an emotional thing for both of us to play at that
:18:47. > :18:51.funeral. Seamus's wife asked if I would play the Brahms and I said
:18:52. > :18:54.yes. I did not realise until the day before the funeral that Seamus had
:18:55. > :18:57.actually requested this piece be played. Never before did such a
:18:58. > :19:07.straightforward simple little tune take on another dimension. It was a
:19:08. > :19:10.great responsibility but... You know, the friendship with Seamus
:19:11. > :19:16.over 25 or more years really helped through that. That you were able to
:19:17. > :20:14.just think of Seamus as he played it. That got you through.
:20:15. > :20:19.Neil's latest major theatre project is The Conquest Of Happiness, a
:20:20. > :20:25.harrowing anti-war play directed by Bosnian theatre and film director
:20:26. > :20:27.Haris Pasovic. It recently premiered in Derry-Londonderry as part of the
:20:28. > :20:37.UK City of Culture. The show The Conquest Of Happiness,
:20:38. > :20:41.it is based on the writings of Bertrand Russell. The show looks at
:20:42. > :20:50.the dreadful atrocities that have happened in the 20th century, the
:20:51. > :20:53.outrageous greed and cruelty of man. Russell had a kind of prime concept
:20:54. > :21:01.that the world was horrible, horrible, horrible. That is the kind
:21:02. > :21:03.of starting premise. We look at some of that and then we try to find a
:21:04. > :21:23.way out, a way of salvation as well. See that army truck down there, it
:21:24. > :21:28.has a parachute over the top of it. That's home. Rod and myself sit in
:21:29. > :21:33.there and we have obviously a monitor and we can hear what is
:21:34. > :21:37.going on. We accompany the cast and we have to play great attention to
:21:38. > :21:43.the script and all of it. But that is home, a U.S. Army Second World
:21:44. > :21:46.War truck. The play has toured around the Balkans, including a
:21:47. > :21:49.performance underneath the rebuilt bridge at Mostar in Bosnia and
:21:50. > :21:50.Herzegovina, before it returns to Northern Ireland for the 51st
:21:51. > :22:20.Belfast Festival at Queens. No sentient human who comes to this
:22:21. > :22:26.show will be unmoved by what they experience. It is on a huge scale
:22:27. > :22:32.and it is hugely emotional. A very emotional show. Some of the scenes
:22:33. > :22:40.are quite disturbing but I think it is important for all of us that we
:22:41. > :22:42.don't forget. We shouldn't. He has also scored the latest play
:22:43. > :22:53.from Kabosh, Belfast by Moonlight. Is theatre taking over your world at
:22:54. > :22:56.the moment? I know you will be working with Field Day Theatre
:22:57. > :23:03.Company, a new production of a Sam Shepard play. That is hugely
:23:04. > :23:07.significant to be working with somebody of that calibre. It is. We
:23:08. > :23:10.had some workdays with Sam Shepard earlier this year and last year, and
:23:11. > :23:14.they were wonderful. Very insightful. I think the nature of a
:23:15. > :23:20.freelance person, sometimes you are busy in one genre for a period of
:23:21. > :23:24.time. At times I could have done nothing but write orchestral stuff
:23:25. > :23:28.for months on end. This particular period in my life is theatre. Very,
:23:29. > :23:31.very busy with theatre at the moment.
:23:32. > :23:36.He lives with his family just a few streets from where he grew up in the
:23:37. > :23:41.North Belfast. This is the Last Supper.
:23:42. > :23:47.THEY PRETEND TO CRY. My disrespectful family all around me.
:23:48. > :23:51.I go off to tour for Europe for a month in the morning with The
:23:52. > :24:00.Conquest Of Happiness show. It will be a much quieter house, apparently.
:24:01. > :24:08.Slainte, everybody. Safe travels and all of that. Some people say how is
:24:09. > :24:14.that fellow from North Belfast speaking in such a different accent?
:24:15. > :24:19.Where did you get it? I don't know. Part of me thinks that I used to
:24:20. > :24:24.travel and tour a lot and I have one of those wobbly heads that picks up
:24:25. > :24:29.colours as you go. Also, although my mother is from Derry City, she
:24:30. > :24:33.doesn't have a strong Derry accent. My wife is from the Antrim Derry
:24:34. > :24:38.border but she doesn't have a strong accent. I think I want to be from
:24:39. > :24:42.Donegal and I spend a lot of time over there on the West Coast, Critch
:24:43. > :24:45.Island, that wonderful part of the world. I think part of my spirit
:24:46. > :24:50.wants to be from Donegal. Your spirit is a Donegal man? I think so.
:24:51. > :24:52.What about the ones in North Belfast, they won't be too happy
:24:53. > :25:39.about that. Ah, lock them! What have you been most proud of
:25:40. > :25:42.that you've done? God, I don't know. I would find that very difficult to
:25:43. > :25:49.answer because each new project throws up a new challenge and a new
:25:50. > :25:51.result, and I feel great. I mean, the big orchestral stuff, also
:25:52. > :25:57.writing it and the uilleann pipe concerto for Liam Flynn. That was a
:25:58. > :26:02.big moment. Writing for Barry Douglas and his orchestra was a big
:26:03. > :26:05.moment. Writing for the Linen Hall Library. But equally, writing for
:26:06. > :26:08.the West Ocean String Quartet and equally, equally writing tunes for
:26:09. > :26:12.each of my children. I'm really proud that I've been able to do
:26:13. > :26:17.that. Simple kind of tunes for the kids. But that, I'm very proud of.
:26:18. > :26:21.And they've taken the music on as well? They haven't ditched you for
:26:22. > :26:25.One Direction or anything like that? No, they are all into music to
:26:26. > :26:30.varying degrees. That is a terrific reward for Siobhan and I. They are
:26:31. > :26:35.all into music. They all appreciate music. Have you a famous instrument?
:26:36. > :26:40.You have cello and uilleann pipes, low whistle. I think at this stage
:26:41. > :26:43.it is probably the cello. I feel very comfortable with the cello. And
:26:44. > :26:48.the particular instrument I was very lucky to get 25 or more years ago.
:26:49. > :26:52.It really suits me. It is the first of only two instruments made by this
:26:53. > :26:57.guy still in existence. It is a very unique thing. I think even if I
:26:58. > :27:01.could afford Stradivarius I would hold onto this cello. Really, you
:27:02. > :27:09.would say, no, I don't want the Strad. No, you can keep your Strad.
:27:10. > :27:14.And what is left to do? I am only starting, honestly. There are so
:27:15. > :27:18.many things I want. I want to write an opera. I want to write a ballet.
:27:19. > :27:23.I really want to write a ballet. I want to write a lot more chamber
:27:24. > :27:27.music. You know, I want to write maybe a guitar concerto. I want to
:27:28. > :27:32.write a piano sonata. And those are the things, the fore of the head.
:27:33. > :27:36.But no, I truly believe I have only started to scratch the surface of
:27:37. > :27:39.what maybe I can do and what I would like to do. But I think it takes a
:27:40. > :27:43.certain few decades knocking about this globe, before you can voice
:27:44. > :27:49.that to yourself and realise that for yourself. At least that is how
:27:50. > :27:52.it is for me. Neil Martin, thank you very much. Thank you, Marie-Louise,
:27:53. > :27:58.I have enjoyed it very much.