:00:08. > :00:13.Welcome to the Culture Show. This week we are coming from BBC
:00:13. > :00:17.Scotland's building in Glasgow. Whether you are in the mood for
:00:17. > :00:20.Murakami or monkey movies, a splendid slice of art or some
:00:20. > :00:27.British watercolours, whether you'd kill for a new series of The
:00:27. > :00:35.Killing, or crave some creepy music - stay with us. Coming up, art to
:00:36. > :00:42.cause outrage. Cult TV, as The Killing comes back to the box. Val
:00:42. > :00:48.McDermid meets its star, Sofie Grabol. Seminal fiction. A
:00:48. > :00:53.philosopher on 1984, the novel that inspired the latest work by Haruki
:00:53. > :00:58.Murakami. And spine-tingling buildings. We check out Aurora
:00:58. > :01:04.Orchestra's latest offering. Also, psychologist at Philippa Perry
:01:04. > :01:06.gives her verdict on primate Cinema. Mark Kermode takes a look at Martin
:01:06. > :01:11.Scorsese's tribute to George Harrison, with a little help from
:01:11. > :01:16.his friend, Jools Holland. I explore the very brilliant and very
:01:16. > :01:21.underrated art of the late Edward Burra. And passionate people tell
:01:21. > :01:31.us about the buildings they think believe -- deserve a heritage Angel
:01:31. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:41.He has taken inspiration from pretty much everybody, ranging from
:01:41. > :01:45.Picasso to Velazquez. His admirers call him the artist's artist. He
:01:45. > :01:50.calls himself a psychological Cubist. On the occasion of his
:01:50. > :01:55.first major retrospective at the Hayward Gallery, Alastair went to
:01:55. > :02:00.meet him. When his painting appeared on the sleeve of the
:02:00. > :02:04.rapper Kanye West's last album cover, it caused a bit of a stir. A
:02:04. > :02:09.strange, demonic looking west was shown with a bushy-tailed wind
:02:09. > :02:12.woman, a gruesome twosome with a terrible teeth. The artist behind a
:02:12. > :02:15.provocative Hopman Cup was George condo. He's one of the most
:02:15. > :02:18.distinctive painters of his generation. Over the past three
:02:18. > :02:22.decades he has produced a body of work that combines traditional
:02:22. > :02:27.techniques with distinctly contemporary sensibility. His
:02:27. > :02:32.paintings are dark and disturbing, often nightmarishly --
:02:32. > :02:40.nightmarishly Savage. But they are also surprisingly funny. It's all
:02:40. > :02:44.quite a mind-bending and unruly makes. Mental states offers a mid-
:02:44. > :02:49.career vet prospective of this intriguing artist. The exhibition
:02:49. > :02:52.contains more than 30 paintings, and some of the lesser known
:02:52. > :03:00.sculptural works. I was keen to meet him and find out what
:03:00. > :03:04.influenced him to come up with his crazy cast of characters. What I
:03:05. > :03:10.wanted to ask you is it when I look at your work I sometimes worry for
:03:10. > :03:15.your mental health. Have a look at this stuff up. They're all these
:03:15. > :03:19.demented creatures. Are they imaginary, they must be! They are.
:03:19. > :03:23.The most demented portraits are usually done when I'm feeling
:03:23. > :03:27.pretty relaxed. And that is also the time when I can reflect on what
:03:27. > :03:33.I see and think about the world around me. Why have you always
:03:33. > :03:37.decided not to work from life? These are all imaginary creations.
:03:37. > :03:43.What is wrong with painting a model, someone in front of you?
:03:43. > :03:47.obviously had to do that numerous times over. But the models are not
:03:47. > :03:51.necessarily the character you want to paint. Unless I were to find a
:03:51. > :03:56.woman that looked just like that and go out on the street and say,
:03:56. > :03:59.hey, would you mind coming into the studio and letting the pain to fora
:03:59. > :04:09.a few hours? I don't want to do that. It's quite unlikely you will
:04:09. > :04:11.
:04:11. > :04:15.encounter anyone who looks quite He emerged on to the downtown New
:04:15. > :04:20.York scene in the early 80s. He had a brief stint at Andy Warhol's
:04:20. > :04:24.factory, working as a silkscreen printer. Struggling to find his
:04:24. > :04:31.artistic voice, in 1985 he moved to Paris where he immersed himself in
:04:31. > :04:35.the paint -- painting techniques of the old masters. His early works
:04:35. > :04:40.mix the old and the new, a hybrid style he described as artificial
:04:40. > :04:49.realism. He returned to New York in the mid- 90s and developed his pin
:04:49. > :04:53.headed portrait technique. He dubbed them his part people. They
:04:53. > :04:57.start to be able to take on any roles in human life and existence.
:04:58. > :05:03.In this case, that particular moment in time, 2002, was right
:05:03. > :05:07.after 9/11. The stock market and everything just was completely
:05:07. > :05:14.crushing all over the world. I needed to paint something that
:05:14. > :05:19.reflected that pathetic... Sort of situation that everybody was in.
:05:19. > :05:24.it fair to say that part of the reason you are so drawn to
:05:24. > :05:28.deformity and anatomical distortion and extremity is for social reasons,
:05:29. > :05:34.it's a social comment? Yes. It is a lot to do with the idea of how do
:05:34. > :05:38.these people feel? Not exactly how do they look, but this is the way
:05:38. > :05:43.they feel, the inside is on the outside. Not what do they look like
:05:43. > :05:48.in the mirror, but what are they projecting as a person? This is the
:05:48. > :05:54.executive. It's another instance of where the unattainable is always
:05:54. > :05:59.dangling in front of him. I feel very sorry for this man. Those eyes
:05:59. > :06:05.are lusting after the carrot. You have the strange, distorted anatomy
:06:05. > :06:10.but that the eyes are so sorrowful. The eyes are very realistic. That
:06:10. > :06:15.was the switch in the paintings, from 96, 97, they had those big
:06:15. > :06:19.discs for eyes. Then I suddenly started to turn them more and more
:06:19. > :06:24.into humans. I at the other end of the spectrum you've got something
:06:24. > :06:28.which is clearly inspired by a comic book. Here is Batman. This is
:06:28. > :06:32.kind of the fall of the super hero. This is the manic side, the
:06:32. > :06:38.flipside of some of the paintings in the other room. She's got one
:06:38. > :06:44.blue eye, it has a sort of pop out, its cartoon-like. She is missing a
:06:44. > :06:47.tooth. The other one is a sort of brown eyed. You can almost see the
:06:47. > :06:51.good old days when she maybe could have been a Playboy bunny, if she
:06:51. > :07:00.ever were a Playboy bunny. I don't know what could she would have been
:07:00. > :07:06.On rare occasions he sometimes paints real people. His unusual
:07:06. > :07:11.portraits of the Queen, briefly displayed at the Tate in 2006,
:07:11. > :07:15.caused a media storm. People got really angry about it. It was a
:07:15. > :07:19.fuse Blower and it short circuits did people's perceptions because
:07:19. > :07:25.it's the same thing which happened with the Kanye West portraits. Once
:07:25. > :07:30.you paint someone that everyone knows in your own style, it is far
:07:30. > :07:33.more radical than to alter your style to paint them in a
:07:33. > :07:40.representation all manner that might be more recognisable to
:07:40. > :07:44.everyone. How did you feel? I hope I didn't create any disturbances in
:07:44. > :07:49.the daily life of the Queen. I don't want her to be upset about it.
:07:49. > :07:54.I think it's fun to have a lot of controversy. I think there is
:07:54. > :07:59.nothing better than controversy when it comes to art. Otherwise it
:07:59. > :08:06.just sits there and is a big bore. At the same time, I didn't want to
:08:06. > :08:11.throw anyone off their rocker. exhibition is at the Hayward
:08:11. > :08:15.Gallery until January eighth. Next, Haruki Murakami is Japan's most
:08:15. > :08:21.famous and most famously perplexing literary export. His latest
:08:21. > :08:27.offering is one Q 84. The clue is in the title. It was inspired by
:08:27. > :08:37.George Orwell's novel, 1984. We asked for loss of it to explode
:08:37. > :08:37.
:08:37. > :08:41.just why the concept of 1984 Norwegian Wood, what I talk about
:08:41. > :08:45.when I talk about running, Kafka On The Shore - these are just a few
:08:45. > :08:50.examples of Japanese writer Haruki Murakami's extensive back catalogue.
:08:50. > :08:57.His latest, a three-volume magnum opus, his face the real thriller
:08:57. > :09:01.and love story. Set in a parallel Tokyo in 1984, it's been described
:09:01. > :09:06.as a mind-bending old to George Orwell's masterpiece. But just what
:09:06. > :09:16.is it about this book which has inspired Murakami and countless
:09:16. > :09:21.
:09:21. > :09:30.other creative minds again and What was born as a novel now has a
:09:30. > :09:34.life of its own. But most people, 1984 exists not as a book but as an
:09:34. > :09:39.idea. A vision of a dystopian society that provides a constant
:09:39. > :09:44.yardstick against which we measure the decline of our own. We look at
:09:44. > :09:51.the spread of surveillance cameras, central government databases and
:09:51. > :09:58.proposed ID cards and say - it is so like 1984! But if you had
:09:58. > :10:02.actually read 1984 you would never say anything so blitz. It's true
:10:02. > :10:06.that at any time you might receive a knock on the door from someone
:10:06. > :10:10.who, without your knowledge, had gathered information on you. But it
:10:10. > :10:15.would only be from someone trying to get you to switch energy
:10:15. > :10:18.supplier, not solid men in black uniforms with iron short boots on
:10:18. > :10:24.their feet and truncheons in their hands. There are states which are
:10:24. > :10:28.ruled by Big Brothers, but Britain is not one of them. It's the
:10:28. > :10:38.differences between what has actually happened and Orwell's to
:10:38. > :10:43.
:10:43. > :10:51.stop big nightmare that are most This, in 1984, is London. Chief
:10:51. > :10:56.City of airstrip One. A province of the state of Oceana. In 1984, the
:10:56. > :11:00.party gets the public to love it by controlling every thought. --
:11:00. > :11:10.thought. Even changing the language, so that their minds are forced,
:11:10. > :11:10.
:11:10. > :11:14.jelly-like, into the mould dictated For us, instead of politicians
:11:14. > :11:19.trying to change our thoughts, they look at the way we think and to
:11:19. > :11:24.change policy to fit us. Excuse me, I wonder if I could have some of
:11:24. > :11:29.your time? It's called politics by focus-group. The parties tried to
:11:29. > :11:36.make us love them by becoming what they think we want them to beat.
:11:36. > :11:41.Orwell got this precisely the wrong way round. Thank you. You might
:11:41. > :11:47.think that 1984 was prescient for foreseeing a National Lottery which,
:11:47. > :11:52.with its weekly payout of enormous prizes was the one public event to
:11:52. > :11:55.which the proles paid serious attention. How is this for a vision
:11:55. > :12:00.of popular culture? Rubbishy newspapers containing almost
:12:00. > :12:10.nothing except sport, crime and astrology, sensational five send
:12:10. > :12:11.
:12:11. > :12:15.A lottery ticket, Koudou check this? But in Orwell's Britain, all
:12:15. > :12:19.of this was produced by the Ministry of truth. The lottery
:12:20. > :12:25.payouts never really happened. They were fabricated by the Ministry of
:12:25. > :12:28.plenty. In our Britain people freely choose to go mad for the
:12:29. > :12:36.lottery. And the free-market takes perfectly good care of trash
:12:36. > :12:40.culture. We all know that 1984 is a hymn to freedom. However, not
:12:40. > :12:46.everyone seems to notice that what we usually call freedom isn't what
:12:47. > :12:51.it all well championed. -- George Orwell championed. Nowadays,
:12:51. > :12:56.freedom is too often taken to be the licence to be believed and
:12:56. > :13:02.whatever is true for you. Even at two plus two=five. But this isn't
:13:03. > :13:07.the message at all. The hero of the book, Winston Smith, couldn't make
:13:07. > :13:13.it any clearer when he says that freedom is the freedom to say that
:13:13. > :13:18.two plus two= four. To be truly free is to be able to find the
:13:18. > :13:26.truth for ourselves and be allowed to uphold it. But unless there is a
:13:26. > :13:32.truth to discover and defend, then freedom has no value. 1980 code
:13:32. > :13:35.does still speak to us today, which is why Haruki Murakami is just the
:13:35. > :13:41.latest in a long list of writers and artists to have found
:13:41. > :13:46.inspiration in it. But to really learn from it we have to read it
:13:46. > :13:56.unthinkingly and reflectively. It is not enough to worry that Big
:13:56. > :13:58.
:13:58. > :14:03.Brother is watching you. You have Volumes 1 and 2 of Murakami's book
:14:03. > :14:06.are out now one volume three is published next week. Next, they
:14:06. > :14:10.painted - a painter Edward Burra was a modern master he didn't quite
:14:10. > :14:14.fit into the standard narrative of 20th century art. So his work has
:14:14. > :14:18.been largely and criminally glossed over by the history books. As well
:14:18. > :14:26.as being a wonderful artist, he was a unique character, a true English
:14:26. > :14:30.eccentric. I thought it was time to find out a bit more about him. From
:14:30. > :14:36.chorus girls to Harlem street life. Edward Burra was drawn to those on
:14:36. > :14:40.the margins of society. His name may not be familiar but Burra is
:14:40. > :14:45.one of the overlooked geniuses of British art, and one of the most
:14:45. > :14:55.acute, colours of the 20th century. Although his is definitely not the
:14:55. > :15:21.
:15:21. > :15:26.official version of history. He Edward Burra died in 1976. I never
:15:26. > :15:30.met him. I am not sure how well even his very best friends really
:15:30. > :15:35.knew him, certainly I am not sure how much they ever knew about his
:15:35. > :15:42.art because Burra was quite possibly the single most elusive
:15:42. > :15:46.British artist of the 20th century. He very, very rarely talked about
:15:46. > :15:52.his enigmatic images. In fact, he was so reticent he didn't like to
:15:52. > :15:56.give them titles. And he only ever gave one interview to the media and
:15:56. > :16:02.that was a filmed interview that he conducted towards the end of his
:16:02. > :16:07.life. It's rare footage. Not very often seen. And they keep it here
:16:07. > :16:11.in the archive of the British Fill p Institute -- Film Institute.
:16:11. > :16:15.Recorded four years before his death, the interview shows an
:16:15. > :16:21.artist deeply uncomfortable about revealing anything of himself or
:16:21. > :16:27.his art. A man who hated being interviewed. Who would much rather
:16:27. > :16:34.be doing what he does best. I am just bored, I don't know what to do.
:16:34. > :16:39.What would you be doing if we weren't here? Painting.
:16:39. > :16:44.Born in 1905 he was a delicate and sickly child, plagued by illness.
:16:44. > :16:48.From a young age he suffered from chronic debilitating arthritis. His
:16:48. > :16:55.joints began visibly to deform from the age of five or six. And the
:16:55. > :17:01.pain never left him for the rest of his life. His one buffer against
:17:01. > :17:10.the hand fate had dealt him was prosperity. He was the son of a
:17:10. > :17:14.rich lawyer. He would never need to earn a living. He was born in this
:17:14. > :17:19.house, Springfield near Rye and would spend much of his life living
:17:19. > :17:26.here with his mother and his father, a semi-permanent invalid, always
:17:26. > :17:30.forced to return to this, his refuge, and main painting space.
:17:30. > :17:36.The window is one of his earliest pictures, painted when I was still
:17:36. > :17:40.a teenager. Like many of his works, its whereabouts is uncertain and
:17:40. > :17:45.it's known only in black and white reproduction. It's an image that
:17:46. > :17:49.reveals his sense of his own predicament with piercing clarity,
:17:49. > :17:54.an ambiguous figure sits on this this side of the window, not
:17:54. > :17:58.wheelchair bound but certainly chair-bound while outside life goes
:17:58. > :18:08.on. Two girls can be seen through the window, perhaps his sisters.
:18:08. > :18:12.
:18:12. > :18:20.Little Betsy and Anne. But the central figure, Burra's ultra
:18:20. > :18:25.etkpwo remains in place -- alter ego.
:18:25. > :18:29.Throughout his childhood Burra escaped the limits of his own body
:18:29. > :18:35.through painting and drawing. Art had become the most important thing
:18:35. > :18:40.in his life. And at the young age of 15 in 19121 he decided to escape
:18:40. > :18:45.Rye for the Chelsea College of Art in London. He loved London's spirit
:18:45. > :18:54.of limitless possibility, but it was the hidden darker side of the
:18:54. > :18:57.city that he caricatured in early drawings. Burra received a
:18:57. > :19:00.straightforward art education by the standards of the early 1920s
:19:00. > :19:05.with a strong emphasis on draftsmanship which perhaps helps
:19:05. > :19:13.to explain his very confident and strong sense of line, but equally
:19:13. > :19:17.important to him were the friends he made at art school, lifelong
:19:17. > :19:26.friends, a future photographer and ballet dancer. What they had in
:19:26. > :19:30.common was a great sense of fun and as Burra later said, frivolity.
:19:30. > :19:39.Those things too filtered straight through to his art.
:19:39. > :19:43.As well as going to the movies, the young Burra went to galleries of
:19:43. > :19:49.modern art. A mix of independent tphraoupbses soon to be -- of
:19:49. > :19:53.influences soon to be reflected in his own work. This is one of his
:19:53. > :19:59.rare oil paintings. It's a classic image and gives us a wonderful
:19:59. > :20:04.snapshot of where he is at as an artist in his early maturity. He's
:20:04. > :20:09.clearly fascinated by Picasso, painting the modern world as a
:20:09. > :20:15.collage of startling detail. The wood grain of a door, tiling of a
:20:15. > :20:20.floor, the texture of a bar counter. I think what makes it Burra-esque
:20:20. > :20:28.is the Spence that -- sense that underneath the apparently innocent
:20:28. > :20:31.surface of the scene all kinds of rather disturbing currents seem to
:20:31. > :20:41.be running. It was this ability to find the darkness in the everyday
:20:41. > :20:41.
:20:41. > :20:46.that gave his work an increasing sense of menace and Mel and
:20:46. > :20:52.melancholy throughout his life. You can find out more about Edward
:20:52. > :20:56.Burra in my new documentary about him on Monday 24th October on BBC 4
:20:56. > :21:00.at 10.00pm. The very first serious
:21:00. > :21:04.retrospective of his paintings for more than 30 years has opened at
:21:04. > :21:07.the Pallant House gallery in Chichester and continues until 19th
:21:07. > :21:12.February. Next, it's time to look at the latest batch of buildings
:21:12. > :21:16.competing for the heritage angel award. English Heritage's Simon
:21:16. > :21:19.Thurley continues his architectural odyssey around Britain locking at
:21:19. > :21:22.buildings brought back from the brink by people who care
:21:22. > :21:29.passionately about them. Today, sigh machine's looking at the four
:21:29. > :21:32.contenders in the places of worship category.
:21:32. > :21:37.In 1964 an exciting new building appeared on the outskirts of
:21:37. > :21:42.Nottingham. As though from outer space, it
:21:42. > :21:48.looked alien, daring, a vision of the future. The Church of the Good
:21:48. > :21:52.Shepherd was the work of Gerard Goalen and represented the optimism
:21:52. > :21:57.of a bright new age of technology. The Church's unusual interior
:21:57. > :22:04.design with the altar to one side of a centralised plan was ground-
:22:04. > :22:09.breaking. So, too, was its use of concrete to creates its modernist
:22:09. > :22:19.angular forms. But perhaps the most remarkable thing about this Church
:22:19. > :22:22.is the tremendous wall of dalle deverre stained glass that floods
:22:22. > :22:28.the altar with multicoloured light. This is not just a temple to God,
:22:28. > :22:32.this is a temple to contemporary design.
:22:32. > :22:37.But it was precisely the use of its innovative materials that led to
:22:37. > :22:44.its near ruination. Within 20 years concrete cancer had set in and the
:22:44. > :22:51.job of restoration began. There was a problem where the steel rods in
:22:51. > :22:59.some of the lower parts of the stained glass window were rusting
:22:59. > :23:03.and the candle wax, grease, had disfigured some of the honeycomb
:23:03. > :23:09.effect so we had to get that cleaned and get back to what my
:23:09. > :23:14.little grand-niece described it as fruit salad window. It will become
:23:15. > :23:18.for us our spiritual dream... you a lover of this type of
:23:18. > :23:22.architecture from the beginning or did you have to be gradually
:23:22. > :23:27.converted? I took to it straightaway. It has a charm of its
:23:27. > :23:32.own that makes people love it and want to keep it. I feel privileged
:23:32. > :23:36.to have been allowed to come in and help. It gave me a purpose in life.
:23:36. > :23:45.To mark the efforts of all the volunteers who have helped restore
:23:45. > :23:51.the Church, a new Angelus bell was recently installed which is
:23:51. > :23:55.remotely controlled to sound each day. The second entry in the
:23:55. > :24:00.worship category, the Church of St Peter's in Leicestershire has
:24:00. > :24:06.hardly changed since it was built in the late 15th century. The
:24:06. > :24:11.ancient name for the dooms day village was a settlement of robbers
:24:11. > :24:14.but little of its criminal ancestry remains today, an army of Saints,
:24:14. > :24:19.rather than sinners, have been hard at work restoring their beloved
:24:19. > :24:23.Church. When you drive down that road
:24:23. > :24:26.coming into the village the first thing you see is the Church tower.
:24:26. > :24:31.Life wouldn't be the same in the village without it. That was one of
:24:31. > :24:37.the things that sort of rallied the troopsing to. Ten years ago it was
:24:37. > :24:40.like lots of Oldchurches. It smelt, there was a lot of damp and reKay.
:24:40. > :24:47.But everybody -- decay. But everybody has been prepared to join
:24:47. > :24:51.in, to work and offer whatever services they possibly can. Money
:24:51. > :24:57.from the Heritage Lottery Fund has allowed the trust to replace a
:24:57. > :25:01.collapsed floor, restore its Victorian pews and salvage the
:25:01. > :25:08.original 1898 pipe organ. Before the restoration you couldn't get a
:25:08. > :25:14.note out of it. It was under a thick layer of dust, it was a
:25:14. > :25:23.broken shell and now it's been brought to life. The original
:25:23. > :25:26.condition, and it's a great thing. Shackerstone may have the honour of
:25:26. > :25:33.being mentioned in the Doomsday Book, but the third building up for
:25:33. > :25:37.the award also has an impressive historic pedigree. The 12th century
:25:38. > :25:46.St James Priory is thought to be Bristol's oldest surviving building.
:25:46. > :25:50.Once the heart of a great monastic settlement it now is surrounded by
:25:50. > :25:55.busy life. Most pass it unawares. But its doors are always open,
:25:55. > :26:02.ready to welcome in anyone in need of quiet contemplation, or more.
:26:02. > :26:07.Like the more famous celebrity clinic priory in London it forms
:26:07. > :26:13.part of a drug and drink rehabilitation centre. The majority,
:26:13. > :26:21.the vast majority of our residents come with a carrier bag or nothing.
:26:21. > :26:26.They literally come from prison or from the park. They're chaotic lost,
:26:26. > :26:30.lonely souls who are broken, find their way to us. When I calm came
:26:30. > :26:35.to this Church I would always get an overwhelming feeling of calmness,
:26:35. > :26:38.my head would be racing with the paranoia where I would be
:26:38. > :26:41.withdrawing from the drugs I was taking before. Even though the head
:26:41. > :26:47.was racing this building would give me an overwhelming feeling of
:26:47. > :26:51.calmness and make me feel protected and comforted. We have always felt
:26:51. > :26:57.that the Church is the beating heart of our project, that the
:26:57. > :27:01.Church is where we get the strength to carry out the work that we do.
:27:01. > :27:07.It's felt like a long journey but you just look at it now and think
:27:07. > :27:12.the Oasis of peace that we wanted to build in the heart of the city,
:27:12. > :27:17.it's here. The final building competing in the
:27:17. > :27:23.worship category is the former Church of St Margaret of Antioch in
:27:23. > :27:28.the inner city area of Leeds skaf six. Not much to look at from the
:27:28. > :27:35.outside. In fact, most people hurry past its forbidding exterior. But
:27:35. > :27:40.step inside and you will be greeted by a wonderful sight. The soaring
:27:40. > :27:43.neo-gothic interior is designed to lift your spirits. The moment that
:27:43. > :27:48.people walk through the door is one of the best parts of my job really,
:27:48. > :27:55.to see the jaw drop and the eyes open and people say wow and then
:27:55. > :27:59.there is a pause and then they swear and then they say, what
:27:59. > :28:03.they'd like to do in the space. The area where the building is is
:28:03. > :28:07.incredibly diverse. We have a fantastic fashion show in the last
:28:07. > :28:12.few weeks. Tkpwots of gig -- lots of gigs, we have had parties, it
:28:12. > :28:19.goes on and on really. The heritage angels who have given the Church
:28:19. > :28:29.its new wings are left bank Leeds, a collective of young young
:28:29. > :28:33.
:28:33. > :28:36.Christians whose patron is IRA pat -- - Corinne Bailey Rae -- -.
:28:36. > :28:40.think it's really important to recognise that this building came
:28:40. > :28:43.about because of the local community. It was paid for by
:28:43. > :28:48.subscription, so for me the building and anyone who uses it has
:28:48. > :28:53.a depth to the community and as a musician I want to continue to be
:28:54. > :28:59.linked to the community that I am from.
:28:59. > :29:09.I do hope that you have enjoyed bringing this -- being in this
:29:09. > :29:10.
:29:10. > :29:16.building, it's really amazing. Still to come tonight: Weird and
:29:16. > :29:21.wonderful primate cinema and music from Aurora orchestra. Next, rot in
:29:21. > :29:25.the state of Denmark hasn't gripped the great British public this much
:29:25. > :29:32.since hamlet. Dan irk detective drama the killing became a cult
:29:32. > :29:38.crime hit last year and it's to return to BBC4. Understated heroine
:29:38. > :29:48.Sarah Lund is at the heart of the action more. We set Val McDermid to
:29:48. > :29:50.
:29:50. > :29:55.I am so sorry, it is Mary's afternoon off it. Once upon a time,
:29:55. > :29:58.the female television detective was a little old lady with fluffy,
:29:58. > :30:02.white hair who always deferred to the cops. Not exactly a figure
:30:02. > :30:07.which resonated with most modern women. Like they say there has bus
:30:07. > :30:10.commercials, why don't you just sit back and leave the driving to us?
:30:10. > :30:15.Television drama has come a long way since Jessica Fletcher and Jane
:30:15. > :30:20.Marple, but I think it's safe to say we've never encountered a
:30:20. > :30:24.detective as singular and surly as the brilliance -- brilliant Sarah
:30:24. > :30:34.Lund. The first series of The Killing saw its female detective
:30:34. > :30:38.investigate the brutal murmur - VAT Much more than a simple whodunit,
:30:39. > :30:42.Sarah Lund's search for the killer led her through the corridors of
:30:42. > :30:51.power and shone a light on the dark heart of Danish society and
:30:51. > :30:55.politics. As the plot played out over 20 slow-burning episodes,
:30:55. > :31:05.Lund's obsession with the truth threaten to enter police career for
:31:05. > :31:18.
:31:18. > :31:23.Over the years, I have made my own contribution to the evolution of
:31:23. > :31:26.the female sleuth, both in books and television. But now me and my
:31:26. > :31:30.fellow trailblazers have been overtaken by a Danish Grayshon
:31:30. > :31:38.mohair knitwear, and we are all backing to find out what happens
:31:38. > :31:41.next to Sarah Lund. Sarah Lund is an aspirational character. In many
:31:41. > :31:45.respects she does the kind of things we don't like to do but
:31:45. > :31:51.don't usually have the nerve to do it. Where did the roots of that
:31:51. > :31:55.character like? I'd worked with the brighter, Soren Sveistrup, before
:31:55. > :32:02.on another television series. And also the same producer. They phoned
:32:02. > :32:06.me a year before, saying... Soren Sveistrup had a loose idea. He knew
:32:07. > :32:12.he wanted to make a crime story. He knew he wanted only one murder. He
:32:12. > :32:17.knew he wanted a female investigator. Out of those meetings
:32:17. > :32:23.came a direction for this character. As an actor, you are always looking
:32:23. > :32:27.for a challenge. You are looking to always go somewhere. Though some
:32:27. > :32:32.way you haven't been before. Up until that point, I had always
:32:32. > :32:38.played very emotional characters. Traditional feminine characters. I
:32:38. > :32:42.had been crying a lot and shouting a lot and feeling a lot and
:32:42. > :32:48.communicating a lot. I remember saying at that very first meeting,
:32:48. > :32:52.I'd like to play a person who is not able to communicate. When I was
:32:52. > :33:02.standing on the set, especially in the beginning, I actually found it
:33:02. > :33:23.
:33:23. > :33:29.It is the writer's story, but this writer, Soren Sveistrup, he insists
:33:29. > :33:35.on writing as we go along. That means that we are shooting one
:33:35. > :33:41.episode at a time. He is writing on the next episode as we shoot the
:33:41. > :33:45.first one. But it allows him to take a lot from actors. If you add
:33:45. > :33:49.something as an actor, then he will start writing in that direction if
:33:50. > :33:56.he gets inspired. The one relationship that is at the heart
:33:56. > :34:01.of that first series of The Killing is the relationship with the jumper.
:34:01. > :34:05.When you see series that have female protagonists, they always
:34:05. > :34:10.have a nice wardrobes. You've got this woman wearing the same jumper
:34:10. > :34:14.week after week after week for 20 weeks. The jumper becomes almost
:34:14. > :34:20.iconic. I don't know what it is with that jumper, but they have
:34:20. > :34:26.been times when I've felt that it was wearing me! A lot more than I
:34:26. > :34:32.was wearing it. We knew we were looking for somebody not a cliche
:34:32. > :34:39.type of detective. Not a woman in a suit. So we had tons of clothes and
:34:39. > :34:43.I just spotted that jumper. I just felt right away that that was it.
:34:43. > :34:47.Sarah Lund and her boss are the only characters to the service in
:34:47. > :34:51.the second series of The Killing. Demoted from detectives the status
:34:51. > :35:01.at the end of series 1, Lund was called back in to help solve a very
:35:01. > :35:12.
:35:12. > :35:18.It's a much more complicated plot. It is a shorter. There are less
:35:18. > :35:25.episodes. Where the first season was this a very small story of one
:35:25. > :35:33.girl being killed and one family... In the second season the story is
:35:33. > :35:43.lifted up on a higher level. So it deals with politics on a greater
:35:43. > :35:57.
:35:57. > :36:00.scale, and it deals with Walk, In series two, it is again set
:36:00. > :36:06.principally in Denmark, but I believe there are parts of it that
:36:06. > :36:13.are set in Afghanistan. Did you go to Afghanistan to film? No. But
:36:13. > :36:16.then again, a pity to reveal that. No, we went to Spain, where they
:36:16. > :36:24.did all the spaghetti westerns. They have a desert there. It was
:36:24. > :36:29.very hot in the jumper. You wore your jumper? Oh, yes! That's
:36:29. > :36:34.fabulous! The second series of The Killing, starring Sofie Grabol in
:36:34. > :36:38.that jumper, starts next month on BBC Four. Aurora Orchestra is one
:36:38. > :36:41.of the most dynamic and innovative forces in British classical music.
:36:41. > :36:48.For their latest project they teamed up with the celebrated
:36:48. > :36:52.American horror writer, --, Peter Stroud, to make a thriller
:36:52. > :36:59.automatic writing. It weaves text around a series of spine-tingling
:36:59. > :37:09.musical themes. But both writer and musicians claim other voices may be
:37:09. > :37:11.
:37:11. > :37:16.Any theatrical spectacle involve the suspension of disbelief. And
:37:16. > :37:20.Aurora Orchestra's new show is no accept -- exception. So leave your
:37:20. > :37:25.rational mind at the door and open yourself to a world where the
:37:25. > :37:35.supernatural is palpably present. Where elements from another realm
:37:35. > :37:58.
:37:58. > :38:02.intrude upon ours. And all is not We are going to work on a programme
:38:03. > :38:07.that involves using music in connection with paragraphs from a
:38:07. > :38:11.novel of mine called Shadow land. We envisaged floating, enigmatic
:38:11. > :38:17.passages of text which would match the mood or contrast with the mood
:38:17. > :38:21.of what ever orchestral pieces were to be played. My voice is reading a
:38:21. > :38:27.script that indicates the confusion between the realms of the real and
:38:27. > :38:30.the imagined. There's not really a narrative to this event. We hope
:38:30. > :38:34.there is an intriguing trail of thought which you lose yourself
:38:34. > :38:40.along. It is a theatrical love affair with music-making, with
:38:40. > :38:44.classical music making. It is based on the idea that when you pick up
:38:44. > :38:48.an instrument you are channelling a kind of lost energy, the energy of
:38:48. > :38:58.a composer who may not be there, all the thoughts and inspirations
:38:58. > :39:05.
:39:05. > :39:10.of a composer of which may have Behind that is another voice,
:39:10. > :39:14.another art form, in the form of literature. In this particular
:39:14. > :39:20.instance, in the form of Peter's kind of literature. It is trying to
:39:20. > :39:24.get through to us. The core experience for the audience is a
:39:24. > :39:29.concert, but the audience get an increasing impression that
:39:29. > :39:37.something else was going on and trying to break through into this
:39:37. > :39:41.medium with a different voice. us about those duets, because there
:39:41. > :39:46.is something very elegiac in that music. Absent friends that he is
:39:46. > :39:50.referring to. He wrote 34 of them. They are all for composers or
:39:50. > :39:53.musicians that he knew. They are beautiful. You can imagine them as
:39:53. > :39:58.if they were four friends who aren't there any more. They are
:39:58. > :40:08.very short, like little postcards. All of has concentrated ideas are
:40:08. > :40:41.
:40:41. > :40:44.in them. They create an amazing This is certainly not your average
:40:44. > :40:49.classical music concerts. Is there an element of improvisation going
:40:49. > :40:53.on? There is. We have an eclectic repertoire in there. Something we
:40:53. > :40:57.enjoy doing is focusing on the skills of our players. There will
:40:58. > :41:02.be a couple of moments where they will be playing together, just
:41:02. > :41:12.creating a soundscape, maybe with some structures in place. That is a
:41:12. > :41:40.
:41:40. > :41:43.really liberating experience for I find it is often some of the most
:41:43. > :41:48.pure music making, because you don't have anything there. Thoughts
:41:48. > :41:56.are quite simple. You are thinking about colour and sound. If you know
:41:56. > :42:00.the people very well, you are interested in who is doing what.
:42:00. > :42:10.is a musical conversation. You are just listening and responding as
:42:10. > :42:11.
:42:11. > :42:15.I tend to think about music in shapes. I am aware of it spatially.
:42:15. > :42:18.Especially when I'm improvising, my eyes are open and seeing the
:42:19. > :42:28.different shapes. If I see gaps then I will play in those gaps. If
:42:29. > :42:33.
:42:33. > :42:37.Is it whisky? Yes. By nature it is risky. Every night there will be
:42:37. > :42:40.something different, it will sound different. You never know, because
:42:40. > :42:45.you have to take what people give you. The very nature of it means it
:42:45. > :42:50.is always unexpected. This is not a scary peace. It is unsettling,
:42:50. > :42:58.which is a very good aesthetic goal. To create something which makes the
:42:58. > :43:02.ground between people's feet feel a little less steady. Why do you
:43:02. > :43:06.think audiences enjoy the suspension of disbelief so much?
:43:06. > :43:11.You go to a performance, you are entering into an invitation, you
:43:11. > :43:17.are entering into a deal. Please suspend my disbelief in a way. It
:43:17. > :43:21.gives us a taste of something which is not our world. It allows us a
:43:21. > :43:26.moment of oblivion sometimes as well. How does music playing to
:43:26. > :43:30.that, how does music enhance those feelings and emotions? Music can
:43:30. > :43:35.paint a picture that words can't. In the context of this concert, it
:43:35. > :43:38.can create violent explosions, it can have the beautiful, tender
:43:38. > :43:48.atmosphere is which can make you look at things in a slightly
:43:48. > :44:08.
:44:08. > :44:13.The show is on tour from the end of the month, finishing up at St
:44:13. > :44:17.Luke's in London on fourth November. Next, Primate Cinema. No, not
:44:18. > :44:22.movies about monkeys created for human beings, but dramas about
:44:22. > :44:26.chimps, played by humans, created for the appreciation of chimps and
:44:27. > :44:36.then show to human beings as works of art. All will become clear. We
:44:37. > :44:44.
:44:44. > :44:50.sent Philippa Perry to delve into Humans, or the naked ape as Desmond
:44:50. > :44:53.Morris called us. Is it any wonder we are so fascinated by other
:44:53. > :44:58.primates? In our desire to learn more about human behaviour, it's
:44:58. > :45:02.unsurprising we should turn to our closest relations.
:45:02. > :45:08.But what is it in our psyche that drives the need to attribute human
:45:09. > :45:13.qualities and abilities to animals? Humans instinctively want to reach
:45:13. > :45:19.out and make contact. And we frequently fail to do this with
:45:19. > :45:24.each other, which might be one of the reasons we look to primates. If
:45:24. > :45:28.chimps and apes are our closest cousins they're also our most
:45:28. > :45:34.exploited, certainly in cinematic terms. The original big daddy of
:45:34. > :45:42.apes on film was, of course, King Kong. The most recent spin-off of
:45:42. > :45:47.Planet of the Apes, portrayed the apes rising up in a bid to escape
:45:47. > :45:51.human tyranny. Over the years humans have cast primates in
:45:51. > :45:56.countless films. But what would happen if we were to cast ourselves
:45:56. > :46:01.in a film primarily for their entertainment?
:46:01. > :46:07.Well, Rachel Mayeri has attempted to find out by making a primate
:46:07. > :46:12.drama with a difference. Tell me what you wanted to achieve with
:46:12. > :46:17.Primate Cinema? I wanted to communicate with chimpanzees
:46:17. > :46:21.through an artwork, we tested for a year to see what chimps would be
:46:21. > :46:26.interested in watching and from that information I came up with an
:46:26. > :46:31.original script and the idea was to appeal to chimpanzees and also
:46:31. > :46:34.human beings to be able to understand something of khfrp --
:46:34. > :46:39.chimpanzee minds by seeing what it was in the film that I made that
:46:39. > :46:44.appealed to them. The main drama centres on a chimp befriending a
:46:44. > :46:53.group of outsiders, all played by humans in costume. This film was
:46:53. > :46:57.then shown to real chimpanzees located in Edinburgh Zoo. The final
:46:57. > :47:04.piece juxtaposes the drama, with footage of the real chimps reacting
:47:04. > :47:09.to it. I am curious if this is for chimps, why you are not using
:47:09. > :47:15.chimpanzee frames of reference more? For instance, we have
:47:15. > :47:20.narrative, we have got cropped images. How can a chimp even begin
:47:20. > :47:24.to follow that? For one thing, I was interested in giving the chimps
:47:24. > :47:31.some novelty, I wanted to show them a situation they had never seen
:47:31. > :47:37.before, like the inside of a fridge or a house. I included dramas
:47:37. > :47:41.around sex, food, territory, social rank and that's for chimps and on
:47:42. > :47:46.another level I was making a film for human beings to reflect on our
:47:46. > :47:51.representations of chimpanzees in films, our romantic ideas about
:47:51. > :47:56.nature. From what I could see, the chimps never watched it for very
:47:56. > :48:01.long. I think that while they may not be following the larger
:48:01. > :48:05.narrative that's intended for human beings, they are possibly
:48:05. > :48:10.recognising characters and they're responding to moments of high
:48:10. > :48:16.energy in the narrative. I guess I like to think that the history of
:48:16. > :48:24.films about apes so far have been films that take apes to be a kind
:48:24. > :48:27.of monster or a clown and I hope that my film is slightly more about
:48:27. > :48:32.engaging what chimpanzees are actually like. But there is, of
:48:32. > :48:38.course, a danger in trying to second guess how our primate
:48:38. > :48:42.cousins look at the world. As shown by recent documentary Project Nim
:48:42. > :48:46.by James Marsh, we might be the same species, but huge gaps in the
:48:46. > :48:50.understanding between us remain. The film is the story of a
:48:50. > :48:54.chimpanzee taken from its mother, pretty much when it's born and
:48:54. > :48:58.given to a human mother as if it were a human child. It's an
:48:58. > :49:02.experiment that was done by a university in the 70s and the
:49:02. > :49:07.objective is to see whether if you humanise a chimpanzee, can that
:49:07. > :49:11.then learn a language the way a human child would learn? And be
:49:12. > :49:16.able to communicate with us what he is thinking which is incredibly
:49:16. > :49:21.radical and mind-boggling idea that we could find out how a chimp sees
:49:21. > :49:26.the world. Young had this idea that we project out our shadow side on
:49:26. > :49:31.to other people or to other species or other animals. Do you think we
:49:31. > :49:37.like primates in films so much because we are projecting our
:49:37. > :49:40.aggression on to... That's a very good idea, because the chimpanzee
:49:40. > :49:43.physically resembles us, their faces have emotions we think we
:49:43. > :49:46.understand. They seem to be able to engage with us in a certain way.
:49:46. > :49:52.They're easy to project on to, but all animals that are out there,
:49:52. > :49:57.they're the easiest vessel for our fears and sometimes our
:49:57. > :50:00.misunderstandings. There's also a danger in that, too. As you see in
:50:00. > :50:06.Project Nim it doesn't end well for the chimpanzee, this sort of
:50:06. > :50:13.meddling with his nature. When the experiment to humanise Nim fails he
:50:13. > :50:18.is abandoned in a cage for medical research. So, in that respect it's
:50:18. > :50:21.quite a sober conclusion one can draw from project Nim and perhaps a
:50:21. > :50:25.disappointing one, there is a limit so how much we can overlap and
:50:25. > :50:31.connect with our closest animal relative. Perhaps, as with most
:50:31. > :50:35.films concerning primates, Rachel's film also tells us more about
:50:35. > :50:39.humans and our beliefs than it does about the animals. Can you tell me
:50:39. > :50:47.a little bit about what you wanted to achieve as an artist with this
:50:47. > :50:52.piece? I think that every artist wants to defamiliarise the world a
:50:52. > :50:58.bit and in a way thinking about ourselves as primates within the
:50:58. > :51:03.ape family is a way of making what it means to be human a little bit
:51:03. > :51:07.strange. It's an interesting idea. But I am not sure that either the
:51:07. > :51:11.science or the art of primate cinema quite work and I am not sure
:51:11. > :51:18.what the chimps get out of it either. But it shows that using
:51:18. > :51:22.primates as a mirror will always continue to fascinate us.
:51:22. > :51:25.Primate Cinema is at the arts catalyst in London until 13th
:51:25. > :51:30.November. Now for cinema of a different kind.
:51:30. > :51:34.Living in the material world is Martin Scorsese's epic documentary
:51:34. > :51:37.tribute to the late beatle George Harrison. Jools Holland has
:51:37. > :51:42.described making music with Harrison as one of the greatest
:51:42. > :51:50.privileges of his life. So, Mark Kermode went to find out what Jools
:51:50. > :51:54.made of the new film. And, of Harrison himself.
:51:54. > :51:58.We are here at Television Centre, Jools Holland is rehearsing for the
:51:58. > :52:08.next edition of Later and he doesn't like to break from
:52:08. > :52:22.
:52:22. > :52:25.rehearsals for anything, except to You have seen George Harrison
:52:25. > :52:29.Living in the Material World, how fair a representation of George do
:52:29. > :52:33.you think it is? Well, I was really impressed with this film. I think
:52:33. > :52:36.it's an amazing work because at the end of it I felt as though I had
:52:36. > :52:41.been in George's company. I felt that you really got his personality,
:52:41. > :52:51.which was a complex personality and all of our personalities are, I
:52:51. > :52:55.
:52:56. > :53:03.thought it captured all the # I saw her standing there...
:53:03. > :53:08.He was cocky, a cocky little guy. He had a good sense of himself. He
:53:08. > :53:13.wasn't cowed by anything. He had a great haircut. I learned new things
:53:13. > :53:16.looking at it it about George's early life, about his personality,
:53:16. > :53:22.about how he always felt because he was the youngest he was always
:53:22. > :53:26.treated as the youngest even when he was grownup, thanks very much.
:53:26. > :53:31.Don't bother me, this is remake calling it take ten... Don't bother
:53:31. > :53:35.me, that's the first song, it was written as an exercise to see if I
:53:36. > :53:41.could write a song, if John and Paul can write, everybody must be
:53:41. > :53:48.able to write. It's like he is a person, as a songwriter, he is like
:53:48. > :53:58.a Burt Bacharach. But then fate has cast him into a group with John
:53:58. > :54:02.
:54:02. > :54:05.Take 12! His songs do stand as distinctly their own. Which stand
:54:06. > :54:11.out for you and what is it about him musically you think is
:54:11. > :54:14.important? I think that - all things must pass is a fantastic
:54:14. > :54:20.song. That's like a really just beautiful song. In every element
:54:20. > :54:27.about it. I think the other thing that's great about his songs, like
:54:27. > :54:36.a Hank Williams song, they can be done in any different style.
:54:36. > :54:40.# Still my guitar gently weeps... I always felt really close to the
:54:40. > :54:47.public and where I grew up and that's where I suppose I wrote some
:54:47. > :54:53.songs that were like, hey, you can all experience this, you know. It
:54:53. > :54:58.is, it's available for everyone. People talk about Harrison seeing
:54:58. > :55:01.the Pythons as taking on the mantle of the Beatles, there was edgy
:55:02. > :55:05.humour there. One of the things people forget about the Beatles as
:55:05. > :55:08.a group, to put George in the context of the film and comedy,
:55:08. > :55:15.when you see the Beatles being interviewed they're sharp and funny.
:55:15. > :55:22.We have been together now for... have all been mates for a long time.
:55:22. > :55:29.So we don't get on each other's nerves as much as we could. George
:55:29. > :55:33.enjoyed his humour and I think that he saw in the Pythons that same
:55:33. > :55:39.sort of abstract humour going on which he rather liked. It made him
:55:39. > :55:45.laugh. He liked to laugh. We had written Life of Brian, we had EMI
:55:45. > :55:48.putting up the money for the movie and we get a call and Bernie to his
:55:48. > :55:51.friends, had finally got around to reading the script, apparently, he
:55:51. > :55:56.hadn't read it before. He was shocked and horrified and he said
:55:56. > :56:00.there's no way EMI is going to be involved in this filth and pulled
:56:00. > :56:05.the plug on the Thursday. We were dead. Eventually when we finally
:56:05. > :56:09.got to California George says I figured it out, we are going to
:56:09. > :56:14.create a company, and we are going to give you the money. It's $4
:56:14. > :56:19.million and he mortgaged his house to put up the money for this movie.
:56:19. > :56:27.Because he wanted to see it. One of the things that is tpas Nat --
:56:27. > :56:31.fascinating, he seemed to facilitate great work in others.
:56:31. > :56:35.It's classic British cult movies, that if it hadn't been for his
:56:35. > :56:39.support those wouldn't have happened. What everyone says his
:56:39. > :56:42.por was -- support was yes I will make it happen but then stand back
:56:42. > :56:47.and not get involved, which sounds like the ideal producer. I think he
:56:47. > :56:50.wanted to have fun, as well. Also, from being in the Beatles, he had
:56:50. > :56:53.enough of being in the limelight, he didn't want to be the star,
:56:53. > :56:56.didn't want to be photographed going up the red carpet and that
:56:56. > :57:00.sort of thing. He had no idea in that. He was really interested in
:57:00. > :57:03.the enjoyment of creating something and the fun of doing it and the fun
:57:03. > :57:05.of hanging around with people he liked. What is it that you found
:57:05. > :57:15.most most interesting in that documentary which you are in,
:57:15. > :57:17.
:57:17. > :57:20.incidentally? Well, me, of course! That was by far the best bit.
:57:20. > :57:23.Olivia Harrison said to me score sor score saw that film -- Martin
:57:23. > :57:27.Scorsese saw that film and that song and every every element of
:57:27. > :57:32.that is perfect and it was, because George produced it, by being there
:57:32. > :57:38.and just gently saying I think that works. Never bell lowing
:57:38. > :57:43.instructions, almost looking and you go with what his feeling was.
:57:43. > :57:47.It would be hard to fit anybody we know, whether it's a relative or
:57:47. > :57:51.your next door neighbour, to fit their lives into a documentary,
:57:51. > :57:55.it's pretty hard. Most importantly, you capture the spiritual George
:57:55. > :57:59.and the man that was in good humoured and kind and spiritual,
:57:59. > :58:02.which actually that's all you could ask from anybody as a human being
:58:02. > :58:05.really. And Living in the Material World
:58:05. > :58:09.will be screened by the BBC later this year.
:58:09. > :58:13.That's about it for tonight. We will be back next week with new
:58:13. > :58:19.music from David Lynch and I will be exploring a new show about the
:58:19. > :58:27.expeditions of Scott and Shackleton. We will leave you with another
:58:27. > :58:30.highlight from this year's London film festival. The Black Power Mix
:58:31. > :58:35.Tape features remarkable unseen footage of the American civil
:58:35. > :58:39.rights struggle hidden away until now in Swedish television archives.
:58:39. > :58:44.It's also on general release this week. Good night.
:58:44. > :58:50.When you see images, you only see the speeches. This is the first
:58:50. > :58:53.time I have seen something where he is hanging out with people, his
:58:53. > :58:58.mother and he seemed like a regular dude. That's what you don't realise
:58:58. > :59:01.about his theme, none of these people are evil or bad or even