Episode 18

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0:00:03 > 0:00:05This week, the good ship Culture Show sets sail

0:00:05 > 0:00:08from the maritime museum here in Greenwich,

0:00:08 > 0:00:09One of my favourite places,

0:00:09 > 0:00:11and quite simply the world's greatest museum

0:00:11 > 0:00:13devoted to seafaring.

0:00:13 > 0:00:16All that, and they are about to open a new exhibition of photographs

0:00:16 > 0:00:20by the pioneering American photographer, Ansel Adams,

0:00:20 > 0:00:21all on the theme of water.

0:00:21 > 0:00:23More of that later.

0:00:24 > 0:00:26'Also on tonight's show,

0:00:26 > 0:00:30'Miranda Sawyer delves into the dark arts of trashy mags.'

0:00:32 > 0:00:35'Michael Smith stares death in the face...

0:00:36 > 0:00:38'..and I review three of the shortlisted books

0:00:38 > 0:00:41'in the running for the Samuel Johnson Prize.'

0:00:47 > 0:00:50First, it's smash hits cinema,

0:00:50 > 0:00:53and America's latest blockbuster movie is Argo.

0:00:53 > 0:00:57Ben Affleck joins the ranks of Hollywood's multi-taskers

0:00:57 > 0:01:01by both directing and performing in this action thriller.

0:01:01 > 0:01:05We sent our man Mark Kermode on a mission to find out more.

0:01:11 > 0:01:15In the West, the late '70s was a time of socially progressive values,

0:01:15 > 0:01:17of the economic independence of women,

0:01:17 > 0:01:19of environmentalism and of disco.

0:01:22 > 0:01:23But further afield,

0:01:23 > 0:01:27this era of self-determination was expressed rather differently.

0:01:30 > 0:01:32In Iran, after the Islamic Revolution,

0:01:32 > 0:01:34rising tensions with the US

0:01:34 > 0:01:37triggered the storming of the American Embassy,

0:01:37 > 0:01:40putting the CIA and the American Government on high alert

0:01:40 > 0:01:43as 52 Americans were taken hostage.

0:01:45 > 0:01:47Although those events are well rehearsed,

0:01:47 > 0:01:50Ben Affleck's new film Argo centres on a less well-known element

0:01:50 > 0:01:55of the story that sounds so absurd it just has to be true.

0:01:56 > 0:01:59- What happened?- Six of the hostages went out a back exit.

0:01:59 > 0:02:00Where are they?

0:02:00 > 0:02:01The Canadian Ambassador's house.

0:02:01 > 0:02:05I got an idea. They are a Canadian film crew for a science-fiction movie.

0:02:05 > 0:02:08I fly into Tehran. We all fly out together as a film crew.

0:02:08 > 0:02:10I need you to help me make a fake movie.

0:02:10 > 0:02:13So you want to come to Hollywood and act like a big shot

0:02:13 > 0:02:15- without actually doing anything? - Yeah.

0:02:15 > 0:02:16You'll fit right in.

0:02:16 > 0:02:19- Ben, welcome to the Culture Show. - Thanks so much for having me.

0:02:19 > 0:02:22I'm old enough to remember the hostage crisis,

0:02:22 > 0:02:24but I didn't know the story of Argo,

0:02:24 > 0:02:27and the story was classified until about 10 years ago.

0:02:27 > 0:02:28'97, yeah.

0:02:28 > 0:02:32The CIA had some sort of 50th anniversary celebration thing,

0:02:32 > 0:02:35and they declassified reams of material,

0:02:35 > 0:02:37and the stuff sat on the shelf until somebody researched it.

0:02:37 > 0:02:39Eventually the script ended up in my hand,

0:02:39 > 0:02:42so it was a serpentine kind of journey,

0:02:42 > 0:02:45but one that I'm really glad ended up the way it did.

0:02:45 > 0:02:47What about the balancing of the thread?

0:02:47 > 0:02:49On one hand, you have a comedic strand, on the other hand

0:02:49 > 0:02:51there is a political story and there's a thriller.

0:02:51 > 0:02:54Did you ever find it hard to balance how many laughs can we get

0:02:54 > 0:02:58in a scene which is being played off against a hostage situation?

0:02:58 > 0:03:00I thought, when I read the script,

0:03:00 > 0:03:02that that was going to be most challenging thing,

0:03:02 > 0:03:05to synthesise these three tones which were quite different,

0:03:05 > 0:03:09and, you know, as you point out, the laughter can really upend

0:03:09 > 0:03:13the rest of the material, because people are having fun

0:03:13 > 0:03:16and not taking it seriously all of a sudden because, hey, it's a comedy.

0:03:16 > 0:03:18Ultimately, what really rescued me was that the acting,

0:03:18 > 0:03:21particularly in the comic part with John and Alan,

0:03:21 > 0:03:24was so real that it didn't seem to be different

0:03:24 > 0:03:26from the rest of the movie, oddly.

0:03:26 > 0:03:28How about The Horses Of Achilles?

0:03:28 > 0:03:30No good. Nobody does Westerns any more.

0:03:30 > 0:03:32It's ancient Troy.

0:03:32 > 0:03:34If it's got horses in it, it's a Western.

0:03:34 > 0:03:36Kenny, please.

0:03:36 > 0:03:38Yeah, it's John Chambers about the office space.

0:03:38 > 0:03:40It doesn't matter, it's a fake movie.

0:03:40 > 0:03:44If I'm doing a fake movie, it's going to be a fake hit.

0:03:44 > 0:03:47My assumption is that a good proportion of the audience

0:03:47 > 0:03:51won't know how it ended before they go in.

0:03:51 > 0:03:53Was that your feeling as well?

0:03:53 > 0:03:55My hope was that I would benefit from two things.

0:03:55 > 0:03:57One from the fact that it was a true story,

0:03:57 > 0:04:00so you tell the audience this is true and they invest a little more deeply

0:04:00 > 0:04:03because they think, "Well, if I see someone die,

0:04:03 > 0:04:05"I'll think that they really died."

0:04:05 > 0:04:10Two, it is not so true, and so well-known

0:04:10 > 0:04:12that you can't still surprise the audience.

0:04:12 > 0:04:13Almost!

0:04:13 > 0:04:14Every time.

0:04:14 > 0:04:19'Argo is a departure from Affleck's directorial home turf.

0:04:19 > 0:04:22'His first two films, Gone Baby Gone and The Town,

0:04:22 > 0:04:25'were both crime thrillers based in Boston.'

0:04:29 > 0:04:32'But for this film, with George Clooney producing,

0:04:32 > 0:04:35'he has broken those geographical and topical boundaries.'

0:04:35 > 0:04:37Look, they are going to try and break you, OK?

0:04:37 > 0:04:38By trying to get you agitated.

0:04:38 > 0:04:40You have to know your resume back to front.

0:04:40 > 0:04:43You really believe your story is going to make a difference

0:04:43 > 0:04:44when there's a gun to our heads?

0:04:46 > 0:04:49I think my story's the only thing between you and a gun to your head.

0:04:49 > 0:04:52George Clooney, when he was over here in the UK some years ago,

0:04:52 > 0:04:56was talking about wanting to make movies that had political threads,

0:04:56 > 0:05:00but worked as dramas, and watching this, it seemed very much to me

0:05:00 > 0:05:02that I can see that vision of his.

0:05:02 > 0:05:05How was your relationship with him as a producer?

0:05:05 > 0:05:08You know, George is the smartest guy I've ever met about Hollywood.

0:05:08 > 0:05:12Obviously understands politics. Extremely winning, charming guy.

0:05:12 > 0:05:14And handsome!

0:05:14 > 0:05:17Very handsome, not that I noticed! But he is very handsome.

0:05:17 > 0:05:20As you say, this project lines up very neatly with that description

0:05:20 > 0:05:22of wanting to make a certain kind of movie,

0:05:22 > 0:05:24and George is smart enough to understand

0:05:24 > 0:05:27that you can't do something that's didactic, that's preachy,

0:05:27 > 0:05:29that says "We want you to believe this."

0:05:29 > 0:05:32You're an air traffic controller with the audience.

0:05:32 > 0:05:36But, you know, you can have some of this provocative,

0:05:36 > 0:05:39thought-provoking content in a movie.

0:05:39 > 0:05:41You're getting a visitor.

0:05:41 > 0:05:43- Have you gotten people out this way before?- No.

0:05:43 > 0:05:46You are asking us to trust you with our lives.

0:05:46 > 0:05:49This is what I do, and I've never left anyone behind.

0:05:49 > 0:05:52In terms of the casting, you seem to have made a specific decision that,

0:05:52 > 0:05:53as far as hostages are concerned,

0:05:53 > 0:05:55it's not names that everyone would be familiar with.

0:05:55 > 0:05:58Was that a deliberate decision?

0:05:58 > 0:06:00Yeah. I felt that the movie doesn't work at all

0:06:00 > 0:06:03if you don't identify emotionally with these house guests.

0:06:03 > 0:06:05If people over the world watch the movie

0:06:05 > 0:06:06and don't feel like "That could be me."

0:06:06 > 0:06:10In order to identify that closely and empathise that much with somebody,

0:06:10 > 0:06:13I think it helps if they're not stars.

0:06:13 > 0:06:17With this movie, having anonymity really helps,

0:06:17 > 0:06:19because they just seem ordinary.

0:06:19 > 0:06:23How much, for you, is the hair and the clothes and the beard

0:06:23 > 0:06:25arrangement key to getting into the character?

0:06:25 > 0:06:29Or do you just look at those things and go, "I know where we are"?

0:06:29 > 0:06:30One thing I like about it, it is not me.

0:06:30 > 0:06:33I feel I can just sink into this other guy.

0:06:33 > 0:06:34It is all your hair.

0:06:34 > 0:06:38It is all my hair, although Philip Baker Hall,

0:06:38 > 0:06:39who played Admiral Turner, you know,

0:06:39 > 0:06:42the two guys who we have to pitch the idea to...

0:06:42 > 0:06:45You're telling me that there is a movie company in Hollywood right now

0:06:45 > 0:06:48that is funded by the CIA?

0:06:48 > 0:06:49Yes, sir.

0:06:49 > 0:06:51He didn't say anything to me when we were doing the movie,

0:06:51 > 0:06:53and we played the scene,

0:06:53 > 0:06:55and he was there for his couple of days and he left,

0:06:55 > 0:06:59and he ran into another actor three months later and was like,

0:06:59 > 0:07:00"I saw Ben. He still has the wig!"

0:07:02 > 0:07:05Ben, I really enjoyed the movie. Thanks very much.

0:07:05 > 0:07:07It's a pleasure. Nice interview, thank you.

0:07:07 > 0:07:10Next, Miranda Sawyer ventures into the murky depths

0:07:10 > 0:07:12of contemporary magazine culture.

0:07:12 > 0:07:16A provocative new play by Lucy Kirkwood, who has been described

0:07:16 > 0:07:18as Britain's brightest stage writer

0:07:18 > 0:07:21takes a wry look at the ethically-challenged world

0:07:21 > 0:07:24of men's and women's magazines.

0:07:27 > 0:07:31'In 1994, a magazine barged its way on to our newsstands

0:07:31 > 0:07:34'transforming not only the culture of men's magazines,

0:07:34 > 0:07:35'but popular culture itself.'

0:07:37 > 0:07:39'Loaded was the original lads' mag.'

0:07:39 > 0:07:42'Its motto, "For men who should know better."'

0:07:42 > 0:07:43Loaded, to give it its due,

0:07:43 > 0:07:46was a pretty good magazine in the early days,

0:07:46 > 0:07:49but it spawned a new generation of men's mags,

0:07:49 > 0:07:54whose attitude - more birds, less words - made their agenda explicit.

0:07:58 > 0:08:02'Glossy shots of semi-clad celebs were replaced by snaps

0:08:02 > 0:08:06'of ordinary girls posing semi-naked in their bedrooms.'

0:08:06 > 0:08:09'Pictures that wouldn't look out of place in a porn mag.'

0:08:09 > 0:08:13As bikini and bra tops were lowered, so too were the industry's ethics,

0:08:13 > 0:08:16and it's this thorny issue that lies at the heart of

0:08:16 > 0:08:20a new black comedy by Lucy Kirkwood called NSFW, here at the Royal Court.

0:08:24 > 0:08:27'The play takes its title from a social media term, Not Safe For Work,

0:08:27 > 0:08:31'meaning images that you wouldn't want your boss catching you browsing online.'

0:08:31 > 0:08:33'It's a play of two halves,

0:08:33 > 0:08:38'with the second act set in a glossy women's magazine, Electra,

0:08:38 > 0:08:40'and the first in the offices of lads' mag, Doghouse,

0:08:40 > 0:08:44'where they're chasing the ratings in a desperate bid not to go under.'

0:08:44 > 0:08:46Two of the publications in our demographic

0:08:46 > 0:08:48have gone under in the last three months,

0:08:48 > 0:08:49and this is an opportunity.

0:08:49 > 0:08:52I don't think that's what we've fully grasped here yet.

0:08:52 > 0:08:53You don't look excited.

0:08:53 > 0:08:54This is exciting.

0:08:54 > 0:08:56ALL: Yay!

0:08:56 > 0:09:00I'm giving you licence to be bold, guys, be brave, yeah?

0:09:00 > 0:09:03There's always room for jokes and boobs. That's a given.

0:09:03 > 0:09:05What else is there room for?

0:09:05 > 0:09:06Rupert?

0:09:06 > 0:09:07Bums.

0:09:07 > 0:09:09Bums don't sell. What I am saying is,

0:09:09 > 0:09:13let's really live in the spaces between the boobs, yeah?

0:09:15 > 0:09:16'I asked two seasoned journalists,

0:09:16 > 0:09:18'Deborah Orr, who writes for the Guardian,

0:09:18 > 0:09:20'and James Brown, the creator of Loaded,

0:09:20 > 0:09:24'to tell me how well they thought the play had nailed the industry.'

0:09:24 > 0:09:26Doghouse is obviously based on a lads' mag.

0:09:26 > 0:09:28Did you recognise it from your years at Loaded?

0:09:28 > 0:09:31Some of it. I thought the name of the magazine was good,

0:09:31 > 0:09:33and the office decor looked right,

0:09:33 > 0:09:36but the bloke struggling with his sales

0:09:36 > 0:09:38and young girls sending pictures of breasts in,

0:09:38 > 0:09:41that's not what my world was like, editing those magazines.

0:09:41 > 0:09:44There is a couple of issues that they do raise that are quite interesting.

0:09:44 > 0:09:49One is the idea that, to a certain extent,

0:09:49 > 0:09:51young women want to exploit themselves,

0:09:51 > 0:09:56so they want to send pictures in of themselves with their tits out.

0:09:56 > 0:09:58This idea that the you're only going to become famous

0:09:58 > 0:10:01by getting your tits out is really short-sighted.

0:10:01 > 0:10:04I take those points, but that's not quite what they were saying.

0:10:04 > 0:10:07It isn't all about chicken and egg.

0:10:07 > 0:10:12Are women portrayed in the media, in the way they are

0:10:12 > 0:10:15because that's how women want to be portrayed, or are women lining up

0:10:15 > 0:10:19to be portrayed because that's the way the media want to portray women?

0:10:20 > 0:10:23I haven't actually told anybody this,

0:10:23 > 0:10:29but I am actually part of a group, a women's group,

0:10:29 > 0:10:32and I sort of lie to them about what I do,

0:10:32 > 0:10:35but the way things are right now,

0:10:35 > 0:10:39all my mates are on benefits and I don't want that, so if it means

0:10:39 > 0:10:45I'm working for money then, I can deal with a few tits here and there.

0:10:45 > 0:10:51- What about the idea that women somehow collude?- Yes, they do.

0:10:51 > 0:10:55They say it is empowering if I do pole dancing to keep fit?

0:10:55 > 0:11:00Yeah. Load of crap. It's just women's own self-delusion.

0:11:00 > 0:11:02Women collude in topless pictures

0:11:02 > 0:11:07in the same way as dairy farmers collude in milk.

0:11:07 > 0:11:12That's a pretty awful metaphor, given the breasty-ness...

0:11:13 > 0:11:14Milk.

0:11:14 > 0:11:18So, you know, it is a supply and demand thing.

0:11:18 > 0:11:19If you offer people money

0:11:19 > 0:11:22for something that it is easy for them to do,

0:11:22 > 0:11:25especially if it's a lot of it, people will come along and say,

0:11:25 > 0:11:26"Yeah, I can do that."

0:11:27 > 0:11:30This one. Show me on this one.

0:11:30 > 0:11:32Show you what?

0:11:32 > 0:11:35Show me how you put a circle round the flaws on this woman's body and caption them.

0:11:35 > 0:11:38There's a moral centre to the play,

0:11:38 > 0:11:41which is a naive little fellow who comes along and works for Doghouse

0:11:41 > 0:11:45and then he tries to get a job at Electra.

0:11:45 > 0:11:49When Sam is asked to circle the imperfections in women,

0:11:49 > 0:11:52did you buy the editor Miranda's argument that if you are doing that,

0:11:52 > 0:11:55you're actually improving a lot of women?

0:11:55 > 0:12:01Oh, definitely. I recognise that philosophy that she's espousing.

0:12:01 > 0:12:06"That woman's too fat, that woman's too thin, that woman's too hairy."

0:12:06 > 0:12:08It's really destructive and nasty and awful,

0:12:08 > 0:12:12and any woman who stands around doing that job and saying

0:12:12 > 0:12:17she's empowering women by it is a total bitch and enemy of humanity.

0:12:17 > 0:12:22So have a little look at the screen and tell me where her flaws are.

0:12:22 > 0:12:24But she's perfect.

0:12:25 > 0:12:28No, I don't mean for normal women.

0:12:28 > 0:12:32For normal women, she's an unhealthy role model.

0:12:32 > 0:12:36Projecting, well, damaging standards of unnatural physical,

0:12:36 > 0:12:38you know, perfection.

0:12:38 > 0:12:41Sorry, luvvie, does this look like The Guardian?

0:12:41 > 0:12:42Sorry?

0:12:42 > 0:12:43She's not perfect.

0:12:43 > 0:12:44No, but, I mean, she's an actress.

0:12:44 > 0:12:47She's a film star. It's her job to be perfect.

0:12:47 > 0:12:49No, she's not perfect.

0:12:49 > 0:12:52Nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect. Our readers aren't perfect.

0:12:52 > 0:12:57I need you to point out the ways in which this woman is not perfect.

0:12:57 > 0:13:01Would you say the play, although it's not very accurate about the industry,

0:13:01 > 0:13:04does throw up issues that need to be talked about?

0:13:04 > 0:13:07The thing about the play is that the people who never buy

0:13:07 > 0:13:09Zoo or Nuts or Heat...

0:13:09 > 0:13:10Which there are none of in the audience.

0:13:10 > 0:13:14..will go along to see this and have their prejudices confirmed

0:13:14 > 0:13:17in a witty way that they will enjoy,

0:13:17 > 0:13:19and it's a great night out in that respect,

0:13:19 > 0:13:20but it's entertainment.

0:13:20 > 0:13:23The idea that it has something deeper to say

0:13:23 > 0:13:26about the real problems that society is grappling with

0:13:26 > 0:13:28is, for me, not at all true.

0:13:28 > 0:13:32Before I went in to watch it, I was reading the actual play.

0:13:32 > 0:13:35I was almost embarrassed by how much I was laughing.

0:13:35 > 0:13:39The first couple of pages, the way the editor was behaving.

0:13:39 > 0:13:41That was spot on.

0:13:41 > 0:13:45If it had carried on like that, just sending the whole thing up,

0:13:45 > 0:13:46it would have worked for me,

0:13:46 > 0:13:51and if they just kept layering it on, it would have made them look more and more stupid,

0:13:51 > 0:13:53they would have made a much stronger case

0:13:53 > 0:13:55and got the points across a little more subtlely.

0:13:57 > 0:14:02And NSFW is on at the Royal Court Theatre until 24th November.

0:14:02 > 0:14:06Next, the Wellcome Collection which is known for exploring the links

0:14:06 > 0:14:11between art, medicine and life, often with rather macabre results.

0:14:11 > 0:14:13This winter, they've gone downright morbid

0:14:13 > 0:14:16with an exhibition about death.

0:14:16 > 0:14:20Quaking in his boots, our very own Michael Smith went along

0:14:20 > 0:14:22to find out just what happens

0:14:22 > 0:14:25when you make that final appointment with the Grim Reaper.

0:14:31 > 0:14:34'How do we begin to talk about death?'

0:14:35 > 0:14:37'Death doesn't answer back.'

0:14:38 > 0:14:41'The Grim Reaper's not big on conversation.'

0:14:45 > 0:14:49Death, after all, is a guess, the great unknown.

0:14:49 > 0:14:52The one blank canvas that awaits us all.

0:14:52 > 0:14:54How do we imagine the unimaginable?

0:14:56 > 0:14:58'I've never seen a dead body before,

0:14:58 > 0:15:01'and maybe that's one reason I feel quite removed

0:15:01 > 0:15:03'from death's blunt realities.'

0:15:07 > 0:15:11'But John Harris's family has been putting London's East End

0:15:11 > 0:15:14'six feet under for five generations.'

0:15:16 > 0:15:18'It turns out that commemorating death

0:15:18 > 0:15:20'can be more expensive than living.'

0:15:22 > 0:15:24I can see that around the office,

0:15:24 > 0:15:26you've got quite a collection on the subject.

0:15:27 > 0:15:29Well, it comes back, really,

0:15:29 > 0:15:34to this study of various cultures and religions.

0:15:34 > 0:15:38I find it fascinating, and if you went back in time,

0:15:38 > 0:15:41especially if you were a wealthy person,

0:15:41 > 0:15:43a lot would be expected of you.

0:15:43 > 0:15:47For example, you know, there was some beautiful mourning jewellery.

0:15:47 > 0:15:49Now, you imagine rings like these.

0:15:50 > 0:15:56If you were a person of some status and you had your funeral,

0:15:56 > 0:16:00not only would you entertain people with food and drink,

0:16:00 > 0:16:03but important people, you would give them a present.

0:16:03 > 0:16:07So a family might strike about 30 of these rings, say, for example.

0:16:07 > 0:16:10So on top of your normal funeral costs, by today's standards

0:16:10 > 0:16:13you would have another £25,000 in jewellery you're giving out.

0:16:13 > 0:16:17- So, it'd be more expensive than a wedding?- Oh, yes.

0:16:17 > 0:16:21So, probably the biggest expense in anyone's life was their actual death.

0:16:26 > 0:16:28Death's a subject I've always tried to avoid, really.

0:16:28 > 0:16:30French philosopher Blaise Pascal

0:16:30 > 0:16:33said it was easier to die without thinking about it,

0:16:33 > 0:16:36and to contemplate death as some far-off event.

0:16:36 > 0:16:39Or as Woody Allen put it, "I am not afraid of death."

0:16:39 > 0:16:43"I just don't want to be there when it happens."

0:16:45 > 0:16:47'But a new exhibition at the Wellcome Collection

0:16:47 > 0:16:51'tries to look death square in the face.'

0:16:51 > 0:16:53'It's a uniquely morbid cabinet of curiosities,

0:16:53 > 0:16:57'charting humanity's eternal attempt to make peace with death.'

0:17:01 > 0:17:04'And I'm getting a sneak preview of some of the objects.'

0:17:05 > 0:17:07So this is just one of the treasures

0:17:07 > 0:17:09that you will find in our exhibition.

0:17:11 > 0:17:15It's a portrait of a rather robust looking, well-fed gentleman.

0:17:15 > 0:17:19But if you flip him around, you'll see that there is a radical device

0:17:19 > 0:17:22- on the other side. - Before and after?- Exactly.

0:17:22 > 0:17:24So do you think the fact that there is a skull in it,

0:17:24 > 0:17:27does that it give it a moral dimension,

0:17:27 > 0:17:29this picture, do you think?

0:17:29 > 0:17:31I certainly think that it would have encouraged the person

0:17:31 > 0:17:35who'd commissioned this portrait to reflect upon whether or not

0:17:35 > 0:17:38they were living a good life.

0:17:38 > 0:17:42So this is a really interesting sculpture.

0:17:42 > 0:17:44It's Death, carrying a bow and arrow in triumph,

0:17:44 > 0:17:50and you get a lot of images of the triumphant skeleton in the genre

0:17:50 > 0:17:54known as the dance of death which is an illustration that emerges

0:17:54 > 0:17:58in the Middle Ages around the time of the Black Death.

0:17:58 > 0:18:00There's something incredibly gory and full-on

0:18:00 > 0:18:02about this little sculpture,

0:18:02 > 0:18:06but I guess, you know, at that time, when everyone around you

0:18:06 > 0:18:08would be dropping like flies, you know,

0:18:08 > 0:18:10you'd be a lot more familiar with death.

0:18:10 > 0:18:14I guess that culture had a different relationship with death than we do.

0:18:14 > 0:18:16'What has persisted, though,

0:18:16 > 0:18:21'is our need to ritualise death, to window-dress it.'

0:18:21 > 0:18:23'To give it some kind of shape.'

0:18:23 > 0:18:26Sometimes it seems like the easiest way to deal with a subject

0:18:26 > 0:18:31as uncomfortable and difficult as death is to make fun of it,

0:18:31 > 0:18:34and in this picture, it's almost like Death's the punchline

0:18:34 > 0:18:35of some cruel joke.

0:18:35 > 0:18:38It's a piece by George Grosz,

0:18:38 > 0:18:41and he made it in the last year of his life, which was the late '50s,

0:18:41 > 0:18:46and the rise of advertising and mass consumerism.

0:18:46 > 0:18:51Now, in that world, we're insulated from the stark reality of death,

0:18:51 > 0:18:53but here, death pokes through that veneer.

0:18:55 > 0:18:59You see these skulls coming through in adverts for shoes

0:18:59 > 0:19:02or adverts for products, and it's just a reminder

0:19:02 > 0:19:06that we're going to die in the most cynical and sarcastic way.

0:19:09 > 0:19:11'In many of these images,

0:19:11 > 0:19:14'the opposite of death isn't life, but sex.'

0:19:15 > 0:19:18'The urge to procreate is the only counterweight

0:19:18 > 0:19:21'to Death's inevitable blackhole gravity.'

0:19:21 > 0:19:24We've got a series of postcards here from the early 1900s

0:19:24 > 0:19:28that explore the theme of sex and death.

0:19:28 > 0:19:32It's as if sex and death are locked in a strange kind of tango,

0:19:32 > 0:19:34two sides of the same coin.

0:19:34 > 0:19:38This one, particularly, is a kind of lover's embrace

0:19:38 > 0:19:41that you can also read as a skull.

0:19:41 > 0:19:44I just find the postcards really bizarre and I can't imagine

0:19:44 > 0:19:48sending loved one a reminder of their own death in the post.

0:19:53 > 0:19:55'However you try and understand death,

0:19:55 > 0:19:58'there is no way to prevent the inevitable.'

0:19:58 > 0:20:01'As the Roman poet Horace said,

0:20:01 > 0:20:05"You flourish in wealth and the honour which men pay you,

0:20:05 > 0:20:09"consider yourself that you are mortal, that you are earth,

0:20:09 > 0:20:11"and into the earth you shall go."'

0:20:13 > 0:20:15'Death's the great leveller.'

0:20:15 > 0:20:19'Whether you are buried in silk sheets or a cardboard box,

0:20:19 > 0:20:23'it is the one great democratic experience that comes to us all.'

0:20:25 > 0:20:29For my part, I don't really want a fancy headstone or a memorial,

0:20:29 > 0:20:32I'd like to have my ashes scattered into the Thames.

0:20:32 > 0:20:35It's this vast, eternal thing that runs through the city I love

0:20:35 > 0:20:39and belong to, and when I die, I'd like to become part of that.

0:20:45 > 0:20:49And you can see that collection for yourself from 15th November.

0:20:49 > 0:20:52Now we turn to the prestigious Samuel Johnson Prize

0:20:52 > 0:20:53for non-fiction.

0:20:53 > 0:20:55Last week, Miranda Sawyer took her pick of three books

0:20:55 > 0:20:57from the shortlist.

0:20:57 > 0:20:59This week, I've got to grips with the rest.

0:21:00 > 0:21:03'Last week's books touched on the horrors of war,

0:21:03 > 0:21:07'but also on human redemption. My books are quite different.'

0:21:07 > 0:21:10The three books I'll be looking at all deal with journeying,

0:21:10 > 0:21:13travelling the world beyond our shores.

0:21:13 > 0:21:16Pushing boundaries, whether real or imagined.

0:21:16 > 0:21:19'The great American playwright Arthur Miller described

0:21:19 > 0:21:22'August Strindberg as the mad father of modern theatre.'

0:21:22 > 0:21:25'In this first major English biography for 30 years,

0:21:25 > 0:21:28'writer Sue Prideaux shines a dazzling light

0:21:28 > 0:21:32'on the mercurial writer straddling the old world and the new.'

0:21:32 > 0:21:37The second half of the 19th century was a crucible of innovation,

0:21:37 > 0:21:39a period of tumult and revolution.

0:21:39 > 0:21:42The new pushing out the old at every turn.

0:21:42 > 0:21:45Think of Marx, Nietzsche, Darwin, Cezanne.

0:21:45 > 0:21:49Well, August Strindberg was as incendiary as any of them.

0:21:49 > 0:21:52'His most famous play is Miss Julie,

0:21:52 > 0:21:54'still hugely popular in theatres today.'

0:21:54 > 0:21:56'In its time, though,

0:21:56 > 0:21:59'its powerful sexual and class politics shocked audiences.'

0:21:59 > 0:22:02'It was banned for 18 years in his own country.'

0:22:02 > 0:22:04'But Strindberg wasn't the only Scandinavian

0:22:04 > 0:22:06'ruffling a few feathers.'

0:22:06 > 0:22:11I was fascinated to read about Munch the painter's relationship

0:22:11 > 0:22:13with Strindberg.

0:22:13 > 0:22:16Am I right in thinking that that's actually wear your book began?

0:22:16 > 0:22:18Absolutely.

0:22:18 > 0:22:21Strindberg had just written Miss Julie and he arrived in Berlin.

0:22:21 > 0:22:25Munch was having a show, and there they were.

0:22:25 > 0:22:27It was 30 years after Darwin,

0:22:27 > 0:22:30Nietzsche had just said God was dead,

0:22:30 > 0:22:33and everyone was interested in what is it to be human?

0:22:33 > 0:22:35What's going on in the human mind?

0:22:35 > 0:22:38In a sense, aren't they rebelling against Darwin?

0:22:38 > 0:22:41- Yes.- The idea that this man can explain everything about humanity,

0:22:41 > 0:22:44that The Origin Of The Species has told us where we fit.

0:22:44 > 0:22:47They're looking to put that mystery back.

0:22:47 > 0:22:49Yeah, because the mystery, obviously, is there,

0:22:49 > 0:22:51and so they're looking to find it.

0:22:51 > 0:22:56That year, that summer, Munch painted The Scream.

0:22:56 > 0:22:59He was interested in portraying extreme psychological states

0:22:59 > 0:23:01like despair and anxiety,

0:23:01 > 0:23:06and Strindberg was interested in doing the same, and so he was

0:23:06 > 0:23:14turning inside himself to express this metaphysical, if you like.

0:23:14 > 0:23:16Generally speaking, I think biographers fall into two camps.

0:23:16 > 0:23:19There are those who, once they've finished their book,

0:23:19 > 0:23:22never, ever, ever want to think about the subject ever again,

0:23:22 > 0:23:25and there are those who fall in love with the subject.

0:23:25 > 0:23:27Where would you put yourself?

0:23:27 > 0:23:31Neither category, actually, but I could think about Strindberg,

0:23:31 > 0:23:34I will think about Strindberg until the day I die.

0:23:39 > 0:23:42'From the wintry world of 19th-century Sweden to modern-day Mumbai.'

0:23:42 > 0:23:46'My next book's journey couldn't be more different.'

0:23:49 > 0:23:53'In 2009, Slumdog Millionaire burst onto the screen,

0:23:53 > 0:23:57'perhaps misleadingly called "The feel-good film of the year."'

0:23:57 > 0:23:59'After the glitzy Mumbai premiere,

0:23:59 > 0:24:02'the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Katherine Boo

0:24:02 > 0:24:06'wrote a piece in the New Yorker reflecting the real city she knew.'

0:24:06 > 0:24:10'The slums of Mumbai, that she'd been researching for four years.'

0:24:10 > 0:24:14Katherine Boo's Behind The Beautiful Forevers is a remarkable debut.

0:24:14 > 0:24:16With an absorbing cast of characters,

0:24:16 > 0:24:18it's written in the manner of a novel,

0:24:18 > 0:24:23though everything in it is based on real interviews with real people.

0:24:23 > 0:24:27There's no neat beginning, no middle, and certainly no Bollywood ending.

0:24:27 > 0:24:28At the heart of it all

0:24:28 > 0:24:31lies the author's passion to make us, the readers, truly feel

0:24:31 > 0:24:33what it is really like to be one of the poorest people on earth.

0:24:35 > 0:24:39'In the early years, Abdul had sat in a classroom

0:24:39 > 0:24:43'where nothing much happened. Then there had been only work.'

0:24:43 > 0:24:47'Work that churned so much filth into the air it turned his snot black.'

0:24:47 > 0:24:50'Work more boring than dirty.'

0:24:50 > 0:24:53'Work he expected to be doing for the rest of his life.'

0:24:53 > 0:24:57'Most days, that prospect weighed on Abdul like a sentence.'

0:24:57 > 0:24:59'Tonight, hiding from the police, it felt like a hope.'

0:24:59 > 0:25:01The book is based in Annawadi,

0:25:01 > 0:25:05described as "a sumpy plug of slum bordering a sewage lake."

0:25:06 > 0:25:11"3,000 people packed into, or on top of, 335 huts."

0:25:13 > 0:25:16The book's strength lies in its relentless focus

0:25:16 > 0:25:18on the grim human realities of poverty,

0:25:18 > 0:25:23the almost insurmountable obstacles faced by the people of Annawadi

0:25:23 > 0:25:26as they struggle day-to-day through life.

0:25:26 > 0:25:30All this isn't laid on thick, it's simply laid bare.

0:25:37 > 0:25:40'The hectic, restless world of the slum seems like a million miles away

0:25:40 > 0:25:41'from the next book.'

0:25:43 > 0:25:45Robert MacFarlane's book is the third volume

0:25:45 > 0:25:48in a kind of psycho-geographical trilogy.

0:25:48 > 0:25:51A heartfelt exploration not just of how we shape the landscape,

0:25:51 > 0:25:55but of how it shapes us.

0:25:55 > 0:25:59The old ways or walks that he travels are human constructions,

0:25:59 > 0:26:01charting both our history and our humanity.

0:26:01 > 0:26:04It is anything but pedestrian.

0:26:04 > 0:26:07'Robert MacFarlane was made a Cambridge don

0:26:07 > 0:26:09'at the grand old age of 25.

0:26:09 > 0:26:11'His first book won three prestigious awards

0:26:11 > 0:26:14'and set the tone that would make him

0:26:14 > 0:26:16'the golden boy of travel writing.'

0:26:16 > 0:26:21- Why do you walk?- It's a very good question. I always have walked.

0:26:21 > 0:26:26I walk to commemorate, to remember, but also to discover, as well,

0:26:26 > 0:26:30and walking is a very powerful way of giving shape to our thoughts,

0:26:30 > 0:26:31but also to our memories.

0:26:31 > 0:26:35'MacFarlane said he wanted to be a poet then a novelist

0:26:35 > 0:26:39'before he settled on his own unique style of writing, and it shows.'

0:26:39 > 0:26:43'There's an undeniable mystical, spiritual side to his work.'

0:26:44 > 0:26:47It's bright line curved away from us.

0:26:47 > 0:26:49An OG whose origin we could not explain,

0:26:49 > 0:26:52and whose invitation to follow we could not disobey.

0:26:52 > 0:26:56So we walked it northwards, along that glowing track

0:26:56 > 0:26:59made neither of water nor of land

0:26:59 > 0:27:02which led us further and still further out to sea.

0:27:03 > 0:27:07'In fact, one of the most memorable paths he takes is not on land,

0:27:07 > 0:27:10'but out at sea.'

0:27:10 > 0:27:13I remember, it was such a luminous night.

0:27:13 > 0:27:15There was Jupiter, there was a wonderful moon.

0:27:15 > 0:27:18We left a phosphorescent wake behind us,

0:27:18 > 0:27:22and I suddenly realised we were leaving our own trail briefly visible

0:27:22 > 0:27:25as this kind of sea road in the green and gold phosphorescence

0:27:25 > 0:27:27beneath our boat.

0:27:27 > 0:27:28It was unforgettable.

0:27:28 > 0:27:30Well, it's been a great pleasure.

0:27:30 > 0:27:34- We should take a walk! - Yes, absolutely. Let's leave.

0:27:38 > 0:27:40And the winner of the Samuel Johnson Prize

0:27:40 > 0:27:42will be announced on 12th November.

0:27:42 > 0:27:44That's pretty much it for tonight's show,

0:27:44 > 0:27:46but we leave you with a visual treat.

0:27:46 > 0:27:51The legendary photographer Ansel Adams documented the raw beauty

0:27:51 > 0:27:53of the wild American landscape,

0:27:53 > 0:27:57and now a new exhibition here at the National Maritime Museum

0:27:57 > 0:27:59contains some of his most stunning images,

0:27:59 > 0:28:03including three monumental photographic murals

0:28:03 > 0:28:04never previously exhibited.

0:28:04 > 0:28:08The show opens on the 9th November. Good night.

0:29:07 > 0:29:10Subtitles by Red Bee Media