0:00:02 > 0:00:07This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10Patrick Melrose is five years old. It's a hot summer's day
0:00:10 > 0:00:12and his father goes to play an old game of theirs
0:00:12 > 0:00:15where he lifts up his son and pretends to hold him by the ears,
0:00:15 > 0:00:18only this time he changes the rules.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21"Please let go!" said Patrick. "Please!"
0:00:21 > 0:00:23He felt that he was going to cry,
0:00:23 > 0:00:26but he pushed back his sense of desperation.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29His arms were exhausted, but if he relaxed them,
0:00:29 > 0:00:32he felt that his ears were going to be torn off.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34The child is the alter ego
0:00:34 > 0:00:37of novelist Edward St Aubyn.
0:00:37 > 0:00:38When St Aubyn sat down
0:00:38 > 0:00:41to describe the terrible thing that happened to him that day,
0:00:41 > 0:00:45he was sweating with fear of what he was about to reveal.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48I wrote it without wearing a shirt,
0:00:48 > 0:00:51and just with a towel wrapped around my waist
0:00:51 > 0:00:54because I poured with sweat so much.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57The conflict and the tension of breaking this taboo
0:00:57 > 0:01:00was so painful.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08'St Aubyn doesn't normally give TV interviews.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12'Ever since he conceded the facts of his biography -
0:01:12 > 0:01:15'that he was raped by his father as a child,
0:01:15 > 0:01:17'that he became a drug addict in his teens
0:01:17 > 0:01:20'and suicidal by his 20s -
0:01:20 > 0:01:24'he's been understandably wary of interrogation.'
0:01:25 > 0:01:28'I'm paranoid and my basic assumption
0:01:28 > 0:01:31'is that people are out to get me.'
0:01:48 > 0:01:53The Melrose novels begin with an act of appalling incestuous violence
0:01:53 > 0:01:56committed by an aristocratic father on his young son.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01St Aubyn was five when his father first raped him.
0:02:01 > 0:02:06He turned this day and the traumatic formative experiences that followed
0:02:06 > 0:02:10into a series of books that critics rate amongst the finest achievements
0:02:10 > 0:02:12of contemporary British fiction.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16What he did with the grim material of his life
0:02:16 > 0:02:20was transform it into exquisitely controlled prose.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24He also made it wickedly funny.
0:02:24 > 0:02:28This aloof novelist has so closely guarded his privacy,
0:02:28 > 0:02:31that hardly anyone knows who he is.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35But with his Melrose novels being adapted for the screen
0:02:35 > 0:02:36and a new book just out,
0:02:36 > 0:02:38he won't be a secret for long.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43The novels you're best known for
0:02:43 > 0:02:45form a quintet, I guess,
0:02:45 > 0:02:49you could call it the Melrose Quintet.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52And the core material of those novels
0:02:52 > 0:02:54is your life as well, isn't it?
0:02:54 > 0:02:56Yes, Patrick is an alter ego
0:02:56 > 0:03:00and Eleanor and David are portraits of my mother and father.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02I knew that enough people
0:03:02 > 0:03:08would recognise the features of my own life and parents.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11And then I was asked whether the books were autobiographical
0:03:11 > 0:03:15and I felt that, as the whole mission
0:03:15 > 0:03:17was to tell the truth,
0:03:17 > 0:03:20that it would be rather pointless to crown it with a lie,
0:03:20 > 0:03:22and so I said it was.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26Although that's caused me a world of woe,
0:03:26 > 0:03:28nevertheless, the right decision.
0:03:28 > 0:03:30In Never Mind,
0:03:30 > 0:03:33there's the extraordinary scene
0:03:33 > 0:03:37where Patrick is raped by his father for the first time
0:03:37 > 0:03:41and he has a kind of out-of-body experience.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44Yes, he is totally unable
0:03:44 > 0:03:46to understand what's happening,
0:03:46 > 0:03:49and he starts staring at the curtain pole...
0:03:49 > 0:03:53over the window in his father's bedroom.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56"For a moment, Patrick felt he was up there,
0:03:56 > 0:03:58"watching with detachment
0:03:58 > 0:04:02"the punishment inflicted by a strange man on a small boy."
0:04:03 > 0:04:07"As hard has he could, Patrick concentrated on the curtain pole
0:04:07 > 0:04:09"and this time, it lasted longer.
0:04:09 > 0:04:11"He was sitting up there,
0:04:11 > 0:04:15"his arms folded, leaning back against the wall.
0:04:15 > 0:04:17"Then he was back down on the bed again,
0:04:17 > 0:04:19"feeling a kind of blankness
0:04:19 > 0:04:22"and bearing the weight of not knowing what was happening.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26"He could hear his father wheezing
0:04:26 > 0:04:29"and the bedhead bumping against the wall.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32"From behind the curtains with the green birds,
0:04:32 > 0:04:33"he saw a gecko emerge
0:04:33 > 0:04:37"and cling motionlessly to the corner of the wall
0:04:37 > 0:04:39"beside the open window.
0:04:39 > 0:04:41"Patrick lanced himself towards it.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44"Tightening his fists and concentrating
0:04:44 > 0:04:47"until his concentration was like a telephone wire
0:04:47 > 0:04:49"stretched between them,
0:04:49 > 0:04:52"Patrick disappeared into the lizard's body."
0:04:55 > 0:04:59I mean, it's an extraordinary... process of kind of escaping...
0:04:59 > 0:05:02Escaping from... He escapes from himself,
0:05:02 > 0:05:05cos what's happening is so terrible to him.
0:05:05 > 0:05:06Absolutely.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10I think, on the one hand, he forms this sort of magical contract
0:05:10 > 0:05:14with the surroundings of the house in France.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17He's being protected by this landscape.
0:05:17 > 0:05:19It's a massive substitute
0:05:19 > 0:05:22for the care that he's not getting from his parents.
0:05:22 > 0:05:26He's being looked after by geckos
0:05:26 > 0:05:29and tree frogs and hiding places.
0:05:29 > 0:05:30And do you remember...
0:05:30 > 0:05:33You sat down to write it, what, when you were in your early 30s,
0:05:33 > 0:05:35the first volume, Never Mind?
0:05:35 > 0:05:38I mean, was that... Was that quite a tough thing to do
0:05:38 > 0:05:42if it was made out of such terrible experiences?
0:05:42 > 0:05:44Yes, I was actually 28
0:05:44 > 0:05:48when I wrote the first chapter of Never Mind.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50And I had to lie down,
0:05:50 > 0:05:53thinking I was having heart attacks on the ground the whole time.
0:05:53 > 0:05:58Every day after it had been accepted by Heinemann,
0:05:58 > 0:06:01I... I rang up...
0:06:01 > 0:06:05and when the phone was answered, I hung up.
0:06:05 > 0:06:09But I'd been planning to say that they should withdraw the book.
0:06:09 > 0:06:13I was completely...persuaded
0:06:13 > 0:06:17that... That everyone would be disgusted
0:06:17 > 0:06:20by what I'd revealed in the book.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23And, you know, the shame I felt...
0:06:23 > 0:06:25I'd projected the shame I felt onto the world
0:06:25 > 0:06:28and thought it would be served back to me.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34The events of St Aubyn's extraordinary upbringing
0:06:34 > 0:06:37are soon to be turned into a series of films.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40The Melrose novels are currently being adapted
0:06:40 > 0:06:42by the writer behind the romantic comic novel One Day,
0:06:42 > 0:06:43David Nicholls.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46- Hi, David.- Hello, hi.
0:06:46 > 0:06:48- How are you?- I'm good, thank you.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51- You found a very balmy spot! - I know. It's beautiful, isn't it?
0:06:51 > 0:06:53Perfect spot.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59Throughout the books, David Melrose looms.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01And Patrick's a wonderful character
0:07:01 > 0:07:03but I think his father, David Melrose,
0:07:03 > 0:07:05is one of the great literary monsters,
0:07:05 > 0:07:09a man full of self-loathing
0:07:09 > 0:07:11and hatred and contempt.
0:07:12 > 0:07:16And Patrick's struggle to acquire some kind of understanding
0:07:16 > 0:07:20is a strand that runs through all the books, some kind of...
0:07:20 > 0:07:22Not forgiveness, but at least comprehension
0:07:22 > 0:07:24of what might have led his father to these crimes.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27He is a dangerous presence
0:07:27 > 0:07:30but a kind of thrilling presence as well.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33I remember a conversation between the father, David,
0:07:33 > 0:07:37and his friend, his spiteful friend, Nicholas,
0:07:37 > 0:07:41about the courtship of Patrick's mother, Eleanor.
0:07:41 > 0:07:43Yes, it's another example.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45He cooks her a wonderful meal,
0:07:45 > 0:07:47and as a test of her love,
0:07:47 > 0:07:51puts it on the floor and makes her eat off the floor.
0:07:51 > 0:07:53And she does it.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57It's shocking and evil, really.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01And you can't quite look away.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03So do you think we understand,
0:08:03 > 0:08:06from the first of the novels in particular,
0:08:06 > 0:08:09why David, the father, does what he does?
0:08:09 > 0:08:13In the first book, it seems to be pretty much about power.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17Erm... A sort of twisted sense
0:08:17 > 0:08:20of what a father should be.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26He tells... The wisdom... He imparts wisdom to his son,
0:08:26 > 0:08:27but it's all twisted and wrong -
0:08:27 > 0:08:29never trust anyone, hate women, you know,
0:08:29 > 0:08:31it's these terrible words of wisdom.
0:08:31 > 0:08:34- Observe everything. - Observe everything.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36So he's doing what a father should do
0:08:36 > 0:08:39but with this...terrible morality.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42But there's a wonderful moment in the third book
0:08:42 > 0:08:47where Patrick, who's on his way to becoming a father himself,
0:08:47 > 0:08:53um, has an insight as to his own father's childhood,
0:08:53 > 0:08:56er, the cruelty and abuse that he must have experienced.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59So it's that old theme of,
0:08:59 > 0:09:03you know, the sins of the father being visited on the son,
0:09:03 > 0:09:04of it being a legacy,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07something that's passed down through the generations.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11And Patrick's job is to stop that,
0:09:11 > 0:09:13is to stop that legacy
0:09:13 > 0:09:16and to be a different kind of father to his own son.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18As an adaptor,
0:09:18 > 0:09:20looking at these novels,
0:09:20 > 0:09:22clearly, the big challenge is
0:09:22 > 0:09:25so much of it happens in peoples' heads
0:09:25 > 0:09:27and, particularly, in Patrick's head.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29How can you cope with that?
0:09:29 > 0:09:33Yes, and when you turn a book into a script,
0:09:33 > 0:09:35the emphasis is inevitably on what people say and do,
0:09:35 > 0:09:37not what they think.
0:09:37 > 0:09:41You know, Patrick is often very charming, often extremely polite,
0:09:41 > 0:09:45and the voice in his head is vicious...
0:09:45 > 0:09:50and spiteful or full of self-loathing
0:09:50 > 0:09:52or contempt.
0:09:52 > 0:09:56And, um... I don't know if we've quite cracked that yet.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00"'Patrick, my dear,'
0:10:00 > 0:10:02"he said in a strained and drawling voice,
0:10:02 > 0:10:04"slightly delayed by its Atlantic crossing,
0:10:04 > 0:10:07"'I'm afraid I have the most awful news for you.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10"'Your father died the night before last in his hotel room.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14"'I've been quite unable to get hold of either of you or your mother.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17"'I believe she's in Chad with Save The Children Fund,
0:10:17 > 0:10:19"'but I hardly need to tell you how I feel.
0:10:19 > 0:10:21"'I adored your father, as you know.
0:10:21 > 0:10:25"'I'm sorry to be the bringer of such bad news,' said George.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28"'You're going to need all your courage during this difficult time.'
0:10:28 > 0:10:30"'Thanks for calling,' said Patrick.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32"'I'll see you tomorrow.' 'Goodbye, my dear.'
0:10:32 > 0:10:36"Patrick put down the syringe he had been flushing out
0:10:36 > 0:10:38"and sat beside the phone without moving.
0:10:38 > 0:10:39"Was it bad news?
0:10:39 > 0:10:42"Perhaps he would need all his courage not to dance in the street,
0:10:42 > 0:10:44"not to smile too broadly.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47"Sunlight poured in through the blurred and caked windowpanes
0:10:47 > 0:10:48"of his flat.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50"Outside, in Ennismore Gardens,
0:10:50 > 0:10:52"the leaves of the plane trees were painfully bright.
0:10:52 > 0:10:54"He suddenly leaped out of his chair.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57"'You're not going to get away with this!' he muttered vindictively.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00"The sleeve of his shirt rolled forward
0:11:00 > 0:11:03"and absorbed the trickle of blood on his arm."
0:11:10 > 0:11:12By the time he was 16,
0:11:12 > 0:11:14St Aubyn's need to numb the effects
0:11:14 > 0:11:18of the mental and physical violence inflicted on him as a child
0:11:18 > 0:11:19had lead him to heroin
0:11:19 > 0:11:22and then a lost decade as a junkie,
0:11:22 > 0:11:24hanging out mostly in New York.
0:11:26 > 0:11:28In the second novel, Bad News,
0:11:28 > 0:11:30it's 16 or 17 years later
0:11:30 > 0:11:35and Patrick has gone to collect his father's ashes from New York,
0:11:35 > 0:11:39and all he can think about is drugs, really.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43He's addicted to drugs, he wants to get drugs,
0:11:43 > 0:11:45but it's weirdly a comic novel.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47Yes, I think that...
0:11:47 > 0:11:50I mean, as a child, it was the landscape and the animals
0:11:50 > 0:11:53which were his consolatory system,
0:11:53 > 0:11:56but now he's moved on and he's discovered heroin and cocaine.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59It isn't obvious
0:11:59 > 0:12:02why that should be funny,
0:12:02 > 0:12:04but somehow it is.
0:12:04 > 0:12:08I suppose a lot of humour depends on distance.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11And Patrick's looking at his own life
0:12:11 > 0:12:13as a kind of strange farce
0:12:13 > 0:12:15from which he's detached by the drugs,
0:12:15 > 0:12:16and that's why he takes them.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21I mean, the headline about that part of my life
0:12:21 > 0:12:23was that heroin did save my life,
0:12:23 > 0:12:26you know, because it was a kind of limbo
0:12:26 > 0:12:29in which I was not choosing to live
0:12:29 > 0:12:31or choosing to kill myself.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34It was a holding pattern,
0:12:34 > 0:12:38and it was very useful to me at the time.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41I think, without it, I would have killed myself.
0:12:41 > 0:12:42- Really?- Mm.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44KNOCK AT DOOR
0:12:49 > 0:12:53'In the books, his alter ego has a psychoanalyst friend,
0:12:53 > 0:12:56'Johnny, in whom he confides,
0:12:56 > 0:12:58'much like Teddy's own oldest friend,
0:12:58 > 0:13:01'clinical psychologist Oliver James.'
0:13:02 > 0:13:07You accompanied me on one of the scenes in Bad News,
0:13:07 > 0:13:10where Patrick goes,
0:13:10 > 0:13:12in the second novel,
0:13:12 > 0:13:15to score in Alphabet City.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19- And, um...- Does he score from... I've forgotten now,
0:13:19 > 0:13:21is the character who he scores from called Chilly Willy?
0:13:21 > 0:13:24- Chilly Willy was the real name? - Chilly Willy was the real name, yes.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26But what I didn't put in the novel
0:13:26 > 0:13:30was YOU coming down with me to Alphabet City.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33It really was quite cool what you did, cos we were walking along...
0:13:33 > 0:13:36If you remember, we were walking along that dark road
0:13:36 > 0:13:40- in Avenue B way, wasn't it?- Yeah.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42In the days when that part of Manhattan
0:13:42 > 0:13:44was actually really quite dodgy.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48And as we approached some steps,
0:13:48 > 0:13:52where there were five or six of the local inhabitants,
0:13:52 > 0:13:54and they started to stand up,
0:13:54 > 0:13:57as we approached them,
0:13:57 > 0:14:02you moved your hand very, very gradually
0:14:02 > 0:14:05inside your jacket,
0:14:05 > 0:14:06and they were all just...
0:14:06 > 0:14:09There was a sort of glinting of knives.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11Seriously, I remember that. I really do.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14And as you moved your hand in, they ALL sat down.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16And I thought, "Holy shit!"
0:14:16 > 0:14:18Cos I was trying to think about
0:14:18 > 0:14:20what do you do in this situation, you know?
0:14:20 > 0:14:24You're about to be sort of attacked by a mob of drug-crazed lunatics.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26I just did it intuitively.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29I mean, I had a huge advantage over you.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31- Can you remember doing that? - I do remember, yes.
0:14:31 > 0:14:32I pretended I was carrying a gun.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35I just put my palm to my sweaty armpit.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39But because they lived by violence,
0:14:39 > 0:14:41they assumed I WAS armed,
0:14:41 > 0:14:43and they said, "He's packed"
0:14:43 > 0:14:47and they all showed that they weren't going to attack us,
0:14:47 > 0:14:49and we just glided through.
0:14:49 > 0:14:50But I wasn't really cool.
0:14:50 > 0:14:54I was, you know, detached because I was stoned - A -
0:14:54 > 0:14:57and, secondly, I had a huge advantage over you,
0:14:57 > 0:15:00which is that I quite wanted to die,
0:15:00 > 0:15:02whereas you didn't.
0:15:02 > 0:15:04- No, I certainly didn't! - And, er... That gave me the edge
0:15:04 > 0:15:05in a situation like that.
0:15:08 > 0:15:10How long have you actually known each other?
0:15:10 > 0:15:13The first time that I recall Teddy on my radar
0:15:13 > 0:15:14was when I went to stay
0:15:14 > 0:15:16at his parents' house in the south of France,
0:15:16 > 0:15:19where the Melrose books are set.
0:15:19 > 0:15:23He was nine, I think, um...
0:15:23 > 0:15:25and I was 15,
0:15:25 > 0:15:29and I shared a room with him,
0:15:29 > 0:15:32and I really could not believe my eyes
0:15:32 > 0:15:34when we went to bed
0:15:34 > 0:15:37and Teddy was reading the Encyclopaedia Britannica.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41And I said, you know, "What is the matter with you?
0:15:41 > 0:15:43"What on earth are you doing?"
0:15:43 > 0:15:45And he said, "Well, I have to do this.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49"I have to read - whatever it was - six or seven items every night
0:15:49 > 0:15:51"and my father will test me in the morning."
0:15:51 > 0:15:53And I said, "Well, you must be joking!"
0:15:53 > 0:15:56I mean, Roger... I knew Roger, of course.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58So Roger, who's David, his dad, in the books?
0:15:58 > 0:16:00Yes. Yeah, Roger is pretty much...
0:16:00 > 0:16:03I think Teddy would say pretty much indistinguishable.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06I certainly do remember him being cruel to women.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09My mother loathed him.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11And I expect he did try to humiliate her,
0:16:11 > 0:16:13and it wouldn't have been easy to do
0:16:13 > 0:16:15cos she was a pretty tough character.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17And what about the most terrible thing?
0:16:17 > 0:16:20I mean, what about the fact that he raped his own son?
0:16:20 > 0:16:24I mean, did you know about that
0:16:24 > 0:16:26before you read the novelized version of it?
0:16:28 > 0:16:29Er... Yes!
0:16:29 > 0:16:30In fact, that's one illustration
0:16:30 > 0:16:33of perhaps the way in which I am Johnny,
0:16:33 > 0:16:35in that Patrick discloses it to Johnny.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38And I can't remember exactly how it happened
0:16:38 > 0:16:41but he then disclosed that he had been sexually abused.
0:16:41 > 0:16:42He didn't give me any details,
0:16:42 > 0:16:45but he just told me that his father had sexually abused him.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49Um... Which was a bit of a sort of, "Oh, right."
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Complete sort of gob-smacker.
0:16:51 > 0:16:53And I worked in a mental hospital, you know,
0:16:53 > 0:16:55but I was still completely gobsmacked.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58There are bits of Bad News
0:16:58 > 0:17:01where the novel is suddenly full of voices,
0:17:01 > 0:17:04full of all these weird voices which are going on in his head,
0:17:04 > 0:17:07- although they're quite funny. - Oh, I mean, I think that,
0:17:07 > 0:17:10as so many people who've had a lot of maltreatment
0:17:10 > 0:17:12create little bits of themselves,
0:17:12 > 0:17:15and I think he did have kind of sub-personalities,
0:17:15 > 0:17:20and that's, you know, one step away from becoming schizophrenic
0:17:20 > 0:17:23where you completely fragment
0:17:23 > 0:17:27and you just become possessed by these...personae.
0:17:27 > 0:17:29From a technical point of view,
0:17:29 > 0:17:31the interesting question about Teddy
0:17:31 > 0:17:33is why he didn't become schizophrenic
0:17:33 > 0:17:36and also why he didn't actually kill himself.
0:17:36 > 0:17:39He got jolly close to it, but he never actually did.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42You say... How do you know he got jolly close to it?
0:17:42 > 0:17:46Well, I mean there was one occasion where,
0:17:46 > 0:17:48after a party I'd had,
0:17:48 > 0:17:50he very deliberately tried to take an overdose.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52He came out of the kitchen,
0:17:52 > 0:17:55fell down and, you know,
0:17:55 > 0:17:57he was obviously... He'd had an overdose.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00And I rang the ambulance and went with him in the ambulance.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04Basically, he was quite lucky, I think. It was a close-run thing.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09'Patrick had greeted the day with the basic question -
0:18:09 > 0:18:13'"Can anyone think of a good reason not to kill himself?"'
0:18:14 > 0:18:18"Since he lived at the time in a theatrical solitude
0:18:18 > 0:18:20"crowded with mad and mocking voices,
0:18:20 > 0:18:23"he was not likely to get an affirmative answer.
0:18:23 > 0:18:27"Elaborate postponement was the best he could hope for
0:18:27 > 0:18:29"and, in the end, the obligation to talk
0:18:29 > 0:18:32"proved stronger than the desire to die.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34"During the next 20 years,
0:18:34 > 0:18:36"the suicidal chatter died down
0:18:36 > 0:18:40"to an occasional whisper on a coastal path or in a quiet chemist.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42"When it returned in full force,
0:18:42 > 0:18:44"it took the form of a grim monologue
0:18:44 > 0:18:46"rather than a surreal chorus.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49"The comparative simplicity of the most recent assault
0:18:49 > 0:18:54"made him realise that he'd only ever been superficially in love
0:18:54 > 0:18:56"with easeful death,
0:18:56 > 0:19:00"and was much more deeply enthralled by his own personality.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04"Suicide wore the mask of self-rejection,
0:19:04 > 0:19:05"but in reality,
0:19:05 > 0:19:09"nobody took their personality more seriously
0:19:09 > 0:19:15"than the person who was planning to kill himself on its instructions."
0:19:15 > 0:19:17It's really clever.
0:19:20 > 0:19:21What a clever boy!
0:19:28 > 0:19:34In 2005, St Aubyn, seemingly done with writing about his father,
0:19:34 > 0:19:36turned his elegant rage on to his mother
0:19:36 > 0:19:39and wrote Mother's Milk.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45In Mother's Milk,
0:19:45 > 0:19:50Patrick realises that his mother has been complicit,
0:19:50 > 0:19:52in some ways,
0:19:52 > 0:19:54in what his father did to him.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56I mean, does that parallel
0:19:56 > 0:19:59a confrontation between you and your mother?
0:20:00 > 0:20:04Um... Yes, to some extent,
0:20:04 > 0:20:07but like everything else in fiction,
0:20:07 > 0:20:09it was a little more complicated than that.
0:20:09 > 0:20:14I mean, she did go into a decline into dementia
0:20:14 > 0:20:18and she did give her money away.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21But he comes to the realisation
0:20:21 > 0:20:25that his mother was a kind of collaborator,
0:20:25 > 0:20:31that she was in this kind of sadomasochistic marriage with David
0:20:31 > 0:20:34and that he was a toy within it,
0:20:34 > 0:20:37and that she wasn't, you know,
0:20:37 > 0:20:40planning to hand over her child to a paedophile
0:20:40 > 0:20:44but, in fact, she tolerated it.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47And her ability to split off
0:20:47 > 0:20:50one part of her self from another
0:20:50 > 0:20:53meant that she knew,
0:20:53 > 0:20:56but was able to deny that she knew.
0:20:56 > 0:21:02And she did ask me to help her commit suicide,
0:21:02 > 0:21:04which is...
0:21:04 > 0:21:06you know, an annoying request.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13In the fifth and final book in St Aubyn's Melrose series,
0:21:13 > 0:21:15Patrick buries his mother,
0:21:15 > 0:21:19welcoming her death as "the best thing to happen to me since...
0:21:19 > 0:21:22"Well, since my father's death."
0:21:23 > 0:21:26So is that it for St Aubyn's alter ego?
0:21:26 > 0:21:28He's just written a new book.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31Patrick Melrose isn't in it.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34So you've written a new novel, Lost For Words,
0:21:34 > 0:21:35which seems a very different book
0:21:35 > 0:21:37from all the other ones you've written.
0:21:37 > 0:21:43Yes, well, it's a satire about a literary prize.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45What amazes me is no-one's written a satire
0:21:45 > 0:21:47about a literary prize before.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50It's just begging to be satirized!
0:21:50 > 0:21:51Time now to find out
0:21:51 > 0:21:55who's won the literary world's most prestigious prize for fiction.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57The authors on the Man Booker shortlist
0:21:57 > 0:21:59have been wined and dined...
0:21:59 > 0:22:02St Aubyn knows about the world of literary awards.
0:22:02 > 0:22:07In 2006, he was tipped to win the Booker Prize for Mother's Milk.
0:22:07 > 0:22:11It was the first time in nearly 20 years of writing
0:22:11 > 0:22:15that he came close to major public recognition for his work.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17But he didn't win.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20I felt sick. I felt like someone had punched me.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22I could not believe it.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24I think to have written a book THAT good
0:22:24 > 0:22:28and to be on a shortlist for a prize and not to win it,
0:22:28 > 0:22:30I mean, Jesus Christ, so unfair.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33To me, it was so unfair.
0:22:33 > 0:22:36And you can probably tell, even as we're talking about it,
0:22:36 > 0:22:40the injustice of it still rankles with me, you know.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43I feel enraged about it, even now.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45- Why do you think he didn't win?- Well, I...
0:22:45 > 0:22:49You know, I can't tell you that. It's unfathomable.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51You know, I have pressed his books on people,
0:22:51 > 0:22:54and I have been told by people who are voracious readers,
0:22:54 > 0:22:57"Oh, no, "I'm not reading that. It's not my kind of thing at all."
0:22:59 > 0:23:02And that may be because they perceive it to be posh.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05But, you know, more fool them!
0:23:05 > 0:23:07It's as daft as saying,
0:23:07 > 0:23:09"I'm not going to read a book
0:23:09 > 0:23:11"because there are working-class people in it!"
0:23:11 > 0:23:13I mean, to me, it's just stupid.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16I mean, his new novel, Lost For Words,
0:23:16 > 0:23:19you know, is that sort of revenge, do you think,
0:23:19 > 0:23:20for what happened to him?
0:23:22 > 0:23:26There will be reviewers who will say this is sour grapes.
0:23:26 > 0:23:28Um, but, you know,
0:23:28 > 0:23:31they can all sod off, really!
0:23:31 > 0:23:35At bottom, this is quite an important subject.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37Prizes - what do they mean?
0:23:37 > 0:23:39How have they skewed our literary culture?
0:23:39 > 0:23:41Um...
0:23:41 > 0:23:44And what this book, Lost For Words, is saying, I think,
0:23:44 > 0:23:49is that on the one hand, prizes have never mattered more.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52You know, if you don't win a prize
0:23:52 > 0:23:54your publisher is, you know,
0:23:54 > 0:23:58likely to pay you very little or to drop you from their list.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00But in another way,
0:24:00 > 0:24:02prizes matter not a jot.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05And anyone who has won a prize
0:24:05 > 0:24:07knows that in their heart.
0:24:07 > 0:24:09Only posterity matters.
0:24:09 > 0:24:10That's all that counts.
0:24:10 > 0:24:14And, um...I think that that's, you know,
0:24:14 > 0:24:18the quite serious point that this rather silly book makes.
0:24:20 > 0:24:23"One thing about choosing the best novel of the year
0:24:23 > 0:24:25"had become absolutely clear to Malcolm -
0:24:25 > 0:24:29"Jo must be stopped at any cost.
0:24:29 > 0:24:33"Her stranglehold over the shortlist was truly scandalous.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36"He reinvigorated his alliance with Penny on the phone
0:24:36 > 0:24:38"later that evening.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41"She felt the same way about Jo's growing power
0:24:41 > 0:24:43"and they agreed that, after reading her choices,
0:24:43 > 0:24:45"they would compare notes over dinner
0:24:45 > 0:24:49"and see which of her novels most deserved to be attacked."
0:24:49 > 0:24:50THEY LAUGH
0:24:50 > 0:24:53So what you do is you line them up and then you shoot them down.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56And, you know, there are two of you doing the shooting,
0:24:56 > 0:24:57so much the better.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59That's how to get your way.
0:24:59 > 0:25:01- I'm sure you've done that in your time!- No...
0:25:01 > 0:25:03THEY LAUGH
0:25:03 > 0:25:05I mean, he's done, in the Melrose novels,
0:25:05 > 0:25:07his dark materials.
0:25:07 > 0:25:11And without that... I mean, is it as good?
0:25:11 > 0:25:14Um...it's different.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20My strong feeling is that there will be some critics
0:25:20 > 0:25:22who dislike the novel.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24- They will miss Patrick.- Yes.
0:25:24 > 0:25:25But I think he just thinks,
0:25:25 > 0:25:28"Well, I'll do something completely different
0:25:28 > 0:25:30"and make myself feel a bit better
0:25:30 > 0:25:33"about the fact I didn't win the Booker Prize in the process."
0:25:33 > 0:25:35And I say good for him.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42Is your experience behind the satire?
0:25:42 > 0:25:46I... Listen, I wrote a book using material,
0:25:46 > 0:25:47as I've generally done,
0:25:47 > 0:25:50which was just lying around and close to hand.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52But I think...
0:25:52 > 0:25:55I don't know that it's, uh...
0:25:55 > 0:25:57That it's just about the Booker Prize.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01It's also about the mentality of comparison,
0:26:01 > 0:26:03of constant comparison,
0:26:03 > 0:26:06which steals people's lives away,
0:26:06 > 0:26:10endlessly wondering whether they are better or worse than someone else,
0:26:10 > 0:26:12or richer or poorer
0:26:12 > 0:26:13or stupider or cleverer.
0:26:13 > 0:26:18And the prize, the prize is the climax of that mentality.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21It's all about comparing and excluding.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24And making lots of people unhappy
0:26:24 > 0:26:28and then making one person provisionally happy,
0:26:28 > 0:26:31until they have to spend the next two years being interviewed.
0:26:31 > 0:26:33JOHN LAUGHS
0:26:33 > 0:26:36I mean, at a deeper level, I think I was questioning
0:26:36 > 0:26:39a kind of psychological contract
0:26:39 > 0:26:42under which I had written all my previous books.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44When I started Never Mind,
0:26:44 > 0:26:46I made a deal with myself
0:26:46 > 0:26:50that I would either finish a novel and get it published or kill myself.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53I did finish Never Mind
0:26:53 > 0:26:54and it did get published,
0:26:54 > 0:26:57so I thought, "Well, that worked!"
0:26:57 > 0:26:58THEY LAUGH
0:26:58 > 0:27:02I better continue to work under the...
0:27:02 > 0:27:04You know, the same employment terms.
0:27:04 > 0:27:09And I did, and it always made it very grim and desperate -
0:27:09 > 0:27:10"If I don't write, I'll go mad,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13"if I go mad, I'll have to kill myself", and so forth.
0:27:13 > 0:27:17And that produced a lot of books, but they were very unpleasant,
0:27:17 > 0:27:19they were very difficult to write,
0:27:19 > 0:27:22they were a grim obligation rather than a pleasure.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24So with Lost For Words, I thought...
0:27:24 > 0:27:26The question I was asking is
0:27:26 > 0:27:29is it possible to enjoy writing a book
0:27:29 > 0:27:30which other people enjoy reading?
0:27:30 > 0:27:34And that was a very transgressive, daring thought.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37I was throwing the old contract on the fire
0:27:37 > 0:27:38and seeing if I could still write.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42Of course, one of the ironies of writing this satirical novel
0:27:42 > 0:27:45is that prize committees
0:27:45 > 0:27:48will sit around reading it amongst other novels
0:27:48 > 0:27:53and working out if they kind of dare...
0:27:53 > 0:27:57choose it as one of the up-and-coming shortlists.
0:27:57 > 0:27:59I think it's pretty bulletproof, really.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02THEY LAUGH
0:28:02 > 0:28:05I don't think it's going to be chosen by anyone, no.
0:28:08 > 0:28:11So we've got through it, Teddy -
0:28:11 > 0:28:13without too much suffering?
0:28:15 > 0:28:17I can't feel anything any more, John,
0:28:17 > 0:28:18so I can't really comment.
0:28:20 > 0:28:22# Unsentimental
0:28:23 > 0:28:24# Driving around
0:28:25 > 0:28:27# Sure of myself
0:28:28 > 0:28:30# Sure of it now
0:28:31 > 0:28:33# You stand this close to me
0:28:33 > 0:28:36# Like the future was supposed to be
0:28:36 > 0:28:39# In the aisles of the grocery
0:28:39 > 0:28:41# In the blocks uptown
0:28:43 > 0:28:45# I remember
0:28:45 > 0:28:48# Remember it well
0:28:48 > 0:28:51# And if I'd forgotten
0:28:51 > 0:28:54# Could you tell?
0:28:54 > 0:28:57# In the shadow of your first attack
0:28:57 > 0:28:59# I was questioning and looking back
0:28:59 > 0:29:02# You were standing on another track
0:29:02 > 0:29:05# Like a real aristocrat. #