:00:11. > :00:20.The energy, the faith, the devotion... Hello and welcome to
:00:20. > :00:23.this special edition of the Culture Show. Our subject is the Kennedys.
:00:23. > :00:29.That remarkable dynasty whose influence and legacy can still be
:00:29. > :00:33.felt today in America and elsewhere too. It's 50 years since John F
:00:33. > :00:36.Kennedy was sworn in as 35th President of the United States. But
:00:36. > :00:41.the family can still make the news, as the History Channel in America
:00:41. > :00:43.discovered to its cost. Its $30 million mini series dramatising the
:00:43. > :00:53.Kennedy story was axed following accusations of historical
:00:53. > :00:59.distortion, political bias, and Jackie muster a figure, if it's
:00:59. > :01:02.inevitable, she may as well make it convenient. So, please join us now
:01:02. > :01:09.for an exploration of the myths and the realities of that fascinating
:01:09. > :01:13.place that will be known forever as John F Kennedy was the shortest
:01:13. > :01:19.serving elected President of the post-war years. Just 1,036 days in
:01:19. > :01:29.all. When he was assassinated in Dallas on the 22nd November 1963,
:01:29. > :01:30.
:01:30. > :01:37.he was already campaigning for a second term. Had it not been for
:01:37. > :01:40.the lone gunman, he probably would have won. But in the so-called
:01:40. > :01:42.1,000 Days of his presidency, JFK, his wife Jackie, and the Kennedy
:01:42. > :01:48.administration set a style of politics that would prove to be
:01:48. > :01:57.unforgettable. We'll be exploring that later with a panel of experts.
:01:57. > :02:03.But before the drama of politics, the politics of a drama. An eight
:02:03. > :02:06.hour, $30 million mini series made for the History Channel in America.
:02:06. > :02:09.But not shown there following a campaign that accused the makers of
:02:09. > :02:12.character assassination. Defenders of the series, which is now being
:02:12. > :02:15.shown on BBC Two, claim that the Kennedy family itself exerted
:02:15. > :02:25.pressure on the History Channel to drop the series. So here's the
:02:25. > :02:30.
:02:30. > :02:36.story behind the making and the In the long history of the world,
:02:36. > :02:41.only a few generations have been granted the role of defending
:02:41. > :02:49.freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this
:02:49. > :02:53.responsibility. I welcome it! APPLAUSE That was John F Kennedy in
:02:53. > :03:02.1961. Here he is in at 2011, played by
:03:02. > :03:09.Greg Kinnear. The energy we bring to this end ever will like our
:03:09. > :03:14.country and all who serve it. But country relight the world. Here is
:03:14. > :03:22.Jackie, played by Katie Holmes. Jackie, you are going to be the
:03:22. > :03:29.first lady of United States. I can hardly think about it. It's all so
:03:29. > :03:37.unreal. Come on. Shearer is Bobby Kennedy, played by Barry Pepper.
:03:37. > :03:46.This is a new era, a new world order. I sincerely hope you can
:03:46. > :03:52.adapt yourself to it. And here's the Kennedy patriarch, Joe Senior,
:03:52. > :03:55.played by Tom Wilkinson. It's not what you are, it's what people
:03:55. > :04:00.think you are and with the right amount of money, you can make them
:04:00. > :04:07.think what ever you want. We are on our way, boys. This country is ours
:04:07. > :04:15.for the taking. A Yes, they are here, including that lone gunman,
:04:15. > :04:23.lurking in episode seven, to fulfil his predestined role. Lee, we are
:04:23. > :04:28.going down to have a look at Kennedy. Save me a spot. And so, my
:04:28. > :04:38.fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what
:04:38. > :04:44.
:04:44. > :04:48.But the miniseries has sparked a bitter war of words between its
:04:48. > :04:57.creators and those who regard it as an attack on the legacy of the
:04:57. > :05:07.Kennedy family. And that is part of what I believe they were attempting
:05:07. > :05:07.
:05:07. > :05:16.to do. I think there are people who just wanted a Valentine and I think
:05:16. > :05:19.the Valentines have been done. Kennedys, originated with the team
:05:19. > :05:25.behind the by whatever means necessary' TV thriller 24 executive
:05:26. > :05:27.producer Joel Surnow and writer Steven Kronish. As a family, they
:05:28. > :05:36.probably have the greatest collection of glamour, intellect,
:05:36. > :05:45.charisma, drama, flaws and gifts. It was a canvas on which you
:05:45. > :05:54.couldn't help, I think, but come up with a compelling personal story.
:05:54. > :05:58.Touchdown! What compelled us as storytellers was the idea of a
:05:58. > :06:05.father living out his ambition through his sons. I can't believe
:06:05. > :06:14.you did it. We did it! You think I was going to pay for a landslide? I
:06:14. > :06:19.love you boys. And then we had the dynamics changing from episode to
:06:19. > :06:23.episode, as we won't vote the story. I think his memory is a failing.
:06:23. > :06:30.You have got be as Attorney-General. Because that is what you are going
:06:30. > :06:35.to be. I'm going to Boston. Jack need someone he can trust and
:06:35. > :06:45.I needed to keep an eye on Jack. believe they elected me President.
:06:45. > :06:46.
:06:46. > :06:53.Not you. That is very true, some. They did. We decided early on, the
:06:53. > :07:01.foreground of the story was going to be the personal story. And the
:07:01. > :07:04.background was going to be the political story. So the events like
:07:04. > :07:07.the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis or the Election all
:07:07. > :07:10.supported the show. They almost became the plot. President
:07:10. > :07:15.Eisenhower approve this training and the ultimate purpose, the
:07:16. > :07:23.elimination of Fidel Castro. I just questioned whether or not to this
:07:23. > :07:29.would work. Yes, it will, Mr President. Without a direct
:07:29. > :07:39.involvement... The goal was to create the best drama we could make
:07:39. > :07:45.
:07:45. > :07:51.Castro's intelligence services must have been tipped off. His men were
:07:51. > :07:55.waiting on the beach. I don't understand. He had a clear view as
:07:55. > :08:03.we approached. It was in the middle of the night. It was the conditions.
:08:03. > :08:06.What? A full moon. There is a record of what was said in the
:08:06. > :08:15.cabinet meetings and in the Oval Office. Jack Kennedy kept a tape
:08:15. > :08:19.system. Nixon was not the first. And so what we used were those
:08:19. > :08:23.records to construct a scene. said that the invasion force would
:08:23. > :08:26.land without resistance. You told me that Castro and the people of
:08:26. > :08:29.Cuba would rise up. You've been wrong about everything so far.
:08:29. > :08:39.support is the only way to stop this from becoming an unmitigated
:08:39. > :08:41.
:08:41. > :08:48.disaster. It already is. In scenes where there is no literal record of
:08:48. > :08:55.what was said, we only used, what I would call, historic licence.
:08:55. > :09:03.you're going to be president and things are going to be different.
:09:03. > :09:06.That's probably true. Between us. We know enough about the attitudes
:09:06. > :09:16.of the characters to be able to create something that probably
:09:16. > :09:17.
:09:17. > :09:23.comes reasonably close to probably what was said. Our marriage works
:09:23. > :09:29.because I decided several years ago to accept certain things about you.
:09:29. > :09:35.And I have dealt with it. I have had my private humiliations. But I
:09:35. > :09:40.won't have them in front of the American people. You take the facts
:09:40. > :09:44.that you know. The facts that we knew, for instance, were that Jack
:09:44. > :09:54.Kennedy had a tendency to be unfaithful. And that Jack and
:09:54. > :09:57.
:09:57. > :10:00.Jackie stayed married. Hi, Toots. Those are two facts that we know.
:10:00. > :10:02.Now, knowing those two things, what conversations would likely happen
:10:02. > :10:06.to support those facts? We know that there were periods where
:10:06. > :10:08.Jackie had to get away. We know that there were periods where she
:10:08. > :10:11.suffered deep depression. We know that there were periods where she
:10:11. > :10:20.drank. That stuff is irrefutable. And so that's what we used to
:10:20. > :10:23.construct these scenes. But the road to Dealey Plaza has not been a
:10:23. > :10:31.smooth one. Even before the miniseries had been cast, it was
:10:31. > :10:34.engulfed in controversy. February 2010, a film maker named
:10:34. > :10:41.Robert Greenwald, who is a well known liberal, reached out to
:10:41. > :10:44.several historians. People who knew the history of the Kennedys. In
:10:44. > :10:46.fact, some who were close to President Kennedy and worked in his
:10:46. > :10:49.administration, because Greenwald, who used to work in the TV film
:10:49. > :10:57.business, had been sent early copies of the Kennedys scripts and
:10:57. > :11:00.was concerned about what he read. Its essential core, it's essential
:11:00. > :11:07.heart, it's essential DNA, says over and over again, sex and power,
:11:07. > :11:10.power and sex. Boy, there must be easier ways to get laid than to
:11:10. > :11:12.become President of the United States. They were very early drafts
:11:12. > :11:19.that this filmmaker Robert Greenwald had received. He objected
:11:19. > :11:23.to it. He put together a YouTube video, and had people like Ted
:11:23. > :11:32.Sorensen, who was the speech writer for JFK, as well as a collection of
:11:32. > :11:39.other historians, basically just trashing the scripts. Every single
:11:39. > :11:46.conversation between the President and the Oval Office, in which I,
:11:46. > :11:49.according to the script, participated, never happened.
:11:50. > :11:52.reached out to five historians including one or two who have been
:11:53. > :11:55.very critical of President Kennedy on a policy basis. But every single
:11:56. > :12:02.one of them responded quickly to say that they would participate and
:12:02. > :12:06.would go on camera because this was in fact a political hack job.
:12:06. > :12:09.you are an historian and you care about the truth, this is very hard
:12:09. > :12:14.stuff to read. And if it's filmed the way it's written it will be
:12:14. > :12:17.just heart-breaking. Greenwald certainly was not just presenting
:12:18. > :12:23.the film as an act of journalism but also an act of advocacy. That
:12:23. > :12:26.he regarded the film as a smear on the Kennedy administration. And was
:12:26. > :12:32.asking people to come to the website, sign an online petition or
:12:32. > :12:34.get involved otherwise to help, as he said, to stop the smears. We had
:12:34. > :12:38.a very high engagement to the Kennedy smears very quickly, and
:12:38. > :12:43.the numerical result was I think that 50,000 people in a week signed
:12:43. > :12:49.a petition. That's a serious amount of people. And that helped to get
:12:49. > :12:56.the History Channel's attention. haven't finished writing the
:12:56. > :13:02.scripts when that happened. We had not even begun to Vetter the script
:13:02. > :13:09.historically, for fine. Accuracy. We were just getting first drafts
:13:09. > :13:10.down, so we could look at it and see if the blueprint was right.
:13:10. > :13:14.channel actually spent several months having established
:13:14. > :13:17.historians review the scripts and review the finished films. And
:13:17. > :13:24.determine whether this was as historically correct as it could be
:13:24. > :13:28.portrayed. There had been compensations of time lines and
:13:28. > :13:32.telescoping of events which still concerned historians that even
:13:32. > :13:37.though this is the kind of thing maybe you see in a film like the
:13:37. > :13:43.King's Speech, the social network, if you look at the History Channel,
:13:43. > :13:46.can you show this mini-series? January of this year, the History
:13:46. > :13:51.Channel in America announced that it would not be showing the series
:13:51. > :13:56.it had invested $30 million in. Now it is being shown on the BBC.
:13:56. > :14:00.they had said the reason they were cancelling this is that this level
:14:00. > :14:03.of historical fiction didn't live up to the brand of the network.
:14:03. > :14:08.That was fiction. That press release was fictional and had
:14:08. > :14:18.nothing to do with it. Historical inaccuracy had zero to do with the
:14:18. > :14:24.cancellation. This statement was The motives behind the decision of
:14:24. > :14:34.the History Channel remain unclear. It is thought the Kennedys precious
:14:34. > :14:34.
:14:34. > :14:38.-- pressured the board of the Channel. Joel Surnow out is a proud,
:14:38. > :14:42.right-wing Conservative. He advocates the positions that come
:14:42. > :14:48.with being a right-wing Conservative. Nothing wrong with
:14:48. > :14:53.that. If this had been called Joel Surnow out's view of President
:14:53. > :14:58.Kennedy with would not have seen anything. The idea that a
:14:58. > :15:03.Conservative cannot tell the story of the Kennedys is stupid. It is
:15:04. > :15:12.like Oliver Stone, a pretty known liberal, told the story about
:15:12. > :15:17.Richard Nixon. It is narrow-minded thinking. I have said this before
:15:17. > :15:22.that if Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg produced this mini-series,
:15:22. > :15:29.frame by frame, exactly as it is, it would be showing at the White
:15:29. > :15:39.House and heralded by the Kennedys. It would be trumpeted as a
:15:39. > :15:43.
:15:43. > :15:50.reverential, patriotic look at the Here to discuss some of the issues
:15:50. > :15:55.are and McAvoy, Tony Badger, Air leading historian, Sarah Bradford,
:15:55. > :16:01.historian and biographer among others Jackie Kennedy and John
:16:01. > :16:06.Sergeant. Reverential and patriotic says Joel Surnow owl, the producer
:16:06. > :16:12.of the programme but it is a character assassination says the
:16:12. > :16:16.critic. Is it fair or foul? I spent an enjoyable time watching it. I
:16:16. > :16:22.thought it could have been replaced by Dallas and Bobby Ewing could
:16:22. > :16:27.have come on and we could have had Sue Ellen instead of Jackie Ewing.
:16:27. > :16:35.The politics is pushed so much into the background that what you're
:16:35. > :16:40.getting is a family supper of power, last, betrayal. -- saga. There is a
:16:40. > :16:45.problem which is, where is the politics? What makes the Kennedys
:16:45. > :16:50.the great political dynasty as opposed to a family who have a more
:16:50. > :16:55.than usually interesting life? could have gone in much harder.
:16:55. > :17:00.There was criticism that it was besmirching the reputation of the
:17:00. > :17:04.Kennedys. It could have worked with the womanising, the hidden health
:17:04. > :17:09.problems. They could have gone darker. The signs are they were
:17:09. > :17:13.ready to go. They were determined to bring out the sex and horrible
:17:13. > :17:23.things behind the scenes. They had second thoughts and were under
:17:23. > :17:23.
:17:23. > :17:27.enormous pressure not to do that. I thought it was an inspired and an
:17:27. > :17:33.inspiring. We do see JFK grapple with the Cuban missile crisis.
:17:33. > :17:41.Politics is not completely absent quite is it? What is absent is what
:17:41. > :17:47.a difficult period Mrs. You have an enormous nuclear arsenal. -- period
:17:47. > :17:52.this is. Can't you show American power? This mild is only 90 miles
:17:52. > :17:57.off the coast. They get to that but they do not build up any sense of
:17:57. > :18:01.what the public mood is in this young President and the feeling of
:18:01. > :18:09.the time and the fact he is endlessly put upon by his father
:18:09. > :18:13.and brother. For people like me, it is so depressing. Joe Kennedy is
:18:13. > :18:18.the puppet master and his boys do his bidding. You have written a
:18:19. > :18:23.series of American lives, is that borne out by the series?
:18:23. > :18:28.Kennedy is powerful and unpleasant. If I do not do it myself, it never
:18:28. > :18:38.gets done. I do not think there is much evidence that, had it not been
:18:38. > :18:40.
:18:40. > :18:46.for him, Kennedy might not have a regime won -- ran for office. His
:18:46. > :18:50.father tries to influence him left, right and centre. Sarah Bradford,
:18:50. > :18:54.you have written an acclaimed biography of Jackie Kennedy. What
:18:54. > :19:02.do you think of the portrayal of her and the relationship between
:19:02. > :19:09.her and her husband? Did you find it convincing? No, actually. I felt
:19:09. > :19:16.very sorry for Katie Holmes. Jackie had no need for her, no background
:19:16. > :19:23.to her. She portrayed a suffering and particularly by the
:19:23. > :19:29.infidelities of her husband. What is the answer to the question about
:19:29. > :19:34.why she put up with it? There were two reasons. She really did love
:19:34. > :19:41.him. There was a great deal of money and power involved. She got a
:19:41. > :19:47.kick out of there. She looks good there. Though she look the part?
:19:47. > :19:52.Yes, she looks good. When I looked back to the original Jackie Kennedy,
:19:52. > :19:58.I remembered how absolutely irritating she was. She was a
:19:58. > :20:03.simpering, over bread woman. We know she did go off and are
:20:03. > :20:07.ostensibly look for security in marrying Onassis. She was looking
:20:07. > :20:12.for money and looking for power. She was asking her husband for an
:20:12. > :20:17.expensive piece of jewellery. I'm sure she felt this very deeply.
:20:17. > :20:25.There was no one better at acquisition and Jackie Kennedy.
:20:25. > :20:31.That did come through. We always see her being made up. I think
:20:31. > :20:40.there is an under estimation of Jackie. In a spell? She is
:20:40. > :20:46.extremely intelligent. -- in this film? She was a cultured woman. She
:20:46. > :20:52.had this extraordinary obsession about money. It is perfectly true,
:20:52. > :20:55.she did. This programme is being attacked for being so harsh and
:20:55. > :21:01.critical. In some ways the historical records might have been
:21:01. > :21:07.more damaging than the programme. That is what makes it all so
:21:07. > :21:14.strange. You think, up they ever going to have a real discussion?
:21:14. > :21:20.Are they ever going to discuss the art of politics and presentation?
:21:21. > :21:26.We all know the power they had of manipulation and the power they had
:21:26. > :21:34.of real media skill. That is what made them such a terrific political
:21:34. > :21:40.asset. They did not want to make another West Wing. That is perfect.
:21:40. > :21:47.It reached the very small number of American viewers. That is why they
:21:47. > :21:54.went this way. They did not seem to be exceptional people, did they?
:21:55. > :22:00.do not think they came across as Dahl. The politics is blended so
:22:00. > :22:04.far back that it is distorted. You are just asked to focus on the
:22:04. > :22:14.person. If you take politics and of the drama, you do not get more
:22:14. > :22:15.
:22:15. > :22:20.drama, you get less. Perhaps the makers were worried about that.
:22:20. > :22:26.What do you think of the human/political balance? Bobby
:22:26. > :22:30.Kennedy is shown as being a very strong figure. He has this very
:22:31. > :22:35.snarling relationship with the vice-president, Lyndon Johnson. Are
:22:35. > :22:40.they getting that right? certainly hated Johnson and the
:22:40. > :22:46.feeling is mutual. Your tremendous grasp of the obvious is
:22:46. > :22:51.contributing nothing. He was certainly his brother's enforcer.
:22:51. > :22:57.That was his role in government. You should be out there looking for
:22:57. > :23:03.John is exactly what he was doing. What you do not get from him very
:23:03. > :23:08.often is the sense of passion for politics and for issues. Issues are
:23:08. > :23:16.not what he is in this programme at all. Once you have decided it is a
:23:16. > :23:23.family drama, it is a family drama. It is a presidential drama. They
:23:23. > :23:29.are not in love with the Kennedys. Nobody thinks, how wonderful!
:23:29. > :23:35.Bobby shown like that? He is so weak. You seem to have been more
:23:35. > :23:41.taken with him than the rest of us. I thought he came off really badly.
:23:41. > :23:48.Gordon Brand says, he is my hero. Ed Miliband says, he is my
:23:48. > :23:53.favourite politician in history. The idea he could run for President
:23:53. > :23:59.in the last episode, it is about that. Before that, you do not think
:23:59. > :24:04.he could cut it. The answer to the political problem is, we will opt
:24:04. > :24:08.out of this. We're not in love with the Kennedys, why should we be?
:24:08. > :24:14.That is the history we are making at the moment. They are in love
:24:15. > :24:21.with the story, the drama is so wonderful. That is where it works
:24:21. > :24:28.best. You think, there is a story. A brother is the assassinated,
:24:28. > :24:33.elections and it raised issues. The daughter it is lobotomised. --
:24:33. > :24:39.racist issues. They have been raised the central part of it all,
:24:39. > :24:45.which is, why were these characters moving mountains politically? Why
:24:45. > :24:50.were they so exciting? Give us a feel for their power. I think
:24:50. > :24:58.political motive is a big gap was dug we have talked about Jackie
:24:58. > :25:03.Kennedy in the posters. There are other strong women in the stories.
:25:03. > :25:12.There is Rose, the matriarch and the wife of Bobby, Ethel. How do
:25:12. > :25:22.you think they are depicted? Ethel is much too pretty. Also she was
:25:22. > :25:22.
:25:22. > :25:28.tough as well. She comes across as sweet and nice. Always ready to
:25:28. > :25:35.produce another baby. Also I thought Rose was OK at times but
:25:35. > :25:41.she was a much more powerful person than she is depicted in this.
:25:41. > :25:50.behaviour is an embarrassment. also thought to be was not made
:25:50. > :25:53.plain that she was a bad mother. She had no relationship with Jack.
:25:53. > :25:59.The parents are the most interesting people in it. I enjoyed
:25:59. > :26:05.those performances. I thought the weird brutality did come through.
:26:05. > :26:10.You say she had no relationship but when she comes to it, she used to
:26:10. > :26:14.smack them with a ruler. There's talk about some of the broader
:26:14. > :26:20.issues this raises a bad dramas like this and the obligation to be
:26:20. > :26:30.faithful to the historical record. There are many averse out there.
:26:30. > :26:31.
:26:31. > :26:38.The King's Speech bad or the Oscars. -- many others. There is the story
:26:38. > :26:45.about the creation of Facebook. Or so Margaret Thatcher coming up in
:26:45. > :26:52.the Iron Lady. -- also. Tony Badger, you are a professional historian, a
:26:52. > :27:00.scholar. We heard Stephen talking about hysterical licence whether
:27:00. > :27:06.Renault transcripts or records. -- where there are no transcripts.
:27:06. > :27:10.think you have to recognise that by choosing to make it a family drama,
:27:10. > :27:16.where it focuses on private relationships, there is not going
:27:16. > :27:22.to be a record. Quite a bit is barely plausible. Some they make up.
:27:22. > :27:26.On things like the womanising, the medication, the relationship with
:27:26. > :27:31.Hoover, that is all there. People have written about it for years.
:27:31. > :27:37.The problem is putting it on the History Channel. Americans are more
:27:37. > :27:42.literal than we are. If you say it is historical, the Kennedys are the
:27:42. > :27:46.equivalent to royalty in the American Psyche and imagination,
:27:46. > :27:51.you have -- you are going to have people saying, it is not how
:27:51. > :27:56.history, what are you doing? number of people who are now ready
:27:56. > :28:02.to play Osama Bin Laden and Colonel Gaddafi, there are going to be
:28:02. > :28:07.these films being made. Dr idea, it does not matter, it is the
:28:07. > :28:13.entertainment industry, it is naive. For lots of young people, they
:28:13. > :28:19.cannot take the Kennedy thing in unless it is dramatised. The
:28:19. > :28:26.obligation and the demand is extremely high. This was precisely
:28:26. > :28:30.the theatre. Caroline Kennedy was worried about this drama. She
:28:30. > :28:36.thought these people would not mean anything to the younger generation
:28:36. > :28:43.unless it was acted out. If they concentrate on failings, they were
:28:43. > :28:49.not that good after all, were they? For a Kennedy and anyone on that
:28:49. > :28:53.site of American politics is awful. It is treason. A really serious
:28:53. > :28:57.business. Part of the campaign built up against this is
:28:57. > :29:00.contemporary liberals who think they Kennedy is such an iconic
:29:00. > :29:10.figure that if you take him down, suddenly the standing of the
:29:10. > :29:11.
:29:11. > :29:16.It's an over the top of motives for saying he took some painkillers and
:29:16. > :29:22.was unfaithful. I think it's an over-reaction. It certainly exists
:29:22. > :29:27.in America. I can see why the Kennedy's were upset by early draft.
:29:27. > :29:34.It's not about the womanising, the drug taking. It's just given such
:29:34. > :29:38.enormous weight, and, if you read about the biography of Kennedy,
:29:38. > :29:44.most of the material is about womanising and drugs and it takes
:29:44. > :29:48.up about 10 pages of a 900 page biography. The Kennedy is
:29:48. > :29:52.understood that this is how history will be conveyed these days. The
:29:52. > :29:55.History Channel, I don't think, has ever done anything like this before.
:29:55. > :30:05.They were going into new territory and they don't think they
:30:05. > :30:15.
:30:15. > :30:20.understood quite what they were letting themselves in for.
:30:20. > :30:30.Now it's time to put the drama of the Kennedy's to one side and to
:30:30. > :30:41.
:30:41. > :30:49.consider the realities of the Kennedy years. I was a
:30:49. > :30:56.Correspondent for the New York Herald Tribune. I was young, in my
:30:56. > :31:01.middle twenties, an idealist. And here was Kennedy, saying. Ask not
:31:01. > :31:11.what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your
:31:11. > :31:23.
:31:23. > :31:29.country. I can remember the Correspondent a 4th Le Monde,
:31:29. > :31:39.cynical Frenchman. He was scornful. He saw this as a frank Capper movie.
:31:39. > :32:00.
:32:00. > :32:07.A tree the media loved Kennedy. They would follow him around in
:32:07. > :32:17.this entourage. He had this aura. Music, football, sexual rumour,
:32:17. > :32:38.
:32:38. > :32:44.You give us your rationale as to this shift in our defence? We
:32:44. > :32:54.become part of the play. And you lose some of the distance. You lose
:32:54. > :32:55.
:32:55. > :33:00.the old idea of the press speaking I believe that this nation should
:33:00. > :33:10.commit itself to achieving the goal before this decade is out of
:33:10. > :33:27.
:33:27. > :33:35.landing a man on the moon and The Kennedy was very Catholic in
:33:35. > :33:40.Hollywood, as well as of the arts. So he could have Robert Frost read
:33:40. > :33:46.at the inauguration. He could have Pablo Casals play the cello at the
:33:46. > :33:56.White House. But he also brought in Frank Sinatra. And Marilyn Monroe
:33:56. > :34:01.
:34:01. > :34:09.and Angie Dickinson. And then also the criminal element with Judith
:34:09. > :34:13.Exner and God knows who else. The administration had something of the
:34:13. > :34:16.feel of a royal or criminal family, where they were dependent upon each
:34:16. > :34:19.other. And it was the family that mattered. Then around that circle
:34:19. > :34:22.would be the hangers-on and the close friends and the old college
:34:22. > :34:29.pals and the whomever. And then the outer circle would be the beau
:34:29. > :34:33.monde. The celebrity. I only saw Kennedy close once, which was at a
:34:33. > :34:37.party that was being given. A birthday party for his younger
:34:37. > :34:42.brother Teddy. I had the impression of a man who was vulnerable and
:34:42. > :34:47.subject to all kinds of influences. Flatterers, camp followers, picking
:34:47. > :34:57.at him. Toward the end of the evening, I had the impression of a
:34:57. > :35:13.
:35:13. > :35:23.Mrs Kennedy, I want to thank you for letting his visit your official
:35:23. > :35:27.
:35:27. > :35:30.home. Thanks, Mr President, for all the things you've done. The battles
:35:30. > :35:33.that you've won. The way you deal with US Steel. And problems by the
:35:33. > :35:36.ton. Thank you so much. 14 February 1962. Jackie Kennedy invites CBS
:35:36. > :35:39.Television into the White House to show off the restoration work that
:35:39. > :35:42.she has overseen. The hour-long programme is watched by 56 million
:35:42. > :35:45.viewers. Mrs Kennedy, I want to thank you for letting us visit your
:35:45. > :35:49.official home. This is obviously the room from which much of your
:35:49. > :35:52.work on it is directed? Yes, it's attic and cellar all in one. Jackie
:35:52. > :35:55.is the perfect princess and she played the part beautifully. I mean,
:35:55. > :35:58.she had a little baby girl voice and she moved well. And she knew
:35:58. > :36:01.the names of French impressionist painters as well as names of
:36:01. > :36:04.American great presidents. I rather love this hall. It has all the
:36:04. > :36:07.colours one thinks of when one thinks of the White House. Red and
:36:07. > :36:10.white and blue and gold. She could tell the difference between good
:36:10. > :36:13.silver and cheap silver. It is gold. I wanted a very simple design so
:36:13. > :36:23.that the china and silver and glass would show up. It's a lesson in
:36:23. > :36:30.manners that she's teaching the 22nd October 1962. Presidential
:36:30. > :36:33.broadcast on the Cuban Missile Within the past week, unmistakable
:36:33. > :36:39.evidence has established the fact that a series of offensive missile
:36:39. > :36:42.sites is now in preparation on that imprisoned island. The purpose of
:36:42. > :36:52.these bases can be none other than to provide a nuclear strike
:36:52. > :36:53.
:36:53. > :36:55.capability against the Western Hemisphere. To halt this offensive
:36:55. > :36:58.build-up, a strict quarantine on all offensive military equipment
:36:58. > :37:02.under shipment to Cuba is being initiated. All ships of any kind
:37:02. > :37:05.bound for Cuba from whatever nation or port will, if found to contain
:37:05. > :37:07.cargoes of offensive weapons, be turned back. It shall be the policy
:37:07. > :37:10.of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba
:37:10. > :37:13.against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the
:37:13. > :37:19.Soviet Union on the United States. Requiring a full retaliatory
:37:19. > :37:23.16th December 1962. Two months after the Cuban Missile Crisis,
:37:23. > :37:26.President Kennedy records a TV interview in the Oval Office.
:37:26. > :37:29.Announcer: After two years, a conversation with the President of
:37:29. > :37:33.the United States. As you look back, has your
:37:33. > :37:38.experience matched your expectations? I would say that the
:37:38. > :37:41.problems are more difficult than I imagined them to be. The
:37:41. > :37:45.responsibilities of the United States are greater than I imagined
:37:45. > :37:49.them to be. And there are greater limitations on our abilities to
:37:49. > :37:54.bring about a favourable result than I imagined there to be.
:37:54. > :37:58.He is saying things are much harder than he had supposed. Much more
:37:58. > :38:08.intractable than he supposed. But on the other hand, the decision
:38:08. > :38:13.
:38:13. > :38:16.gets left to him. The easy decisions get made at a lower level.
:38:16. > :38:19.My favourite line was that, "It's one thing to make a speech and
:38:19. > :38:22.another thing to make a judgement." It's much easier to make the
:38:22. > :38:24.speeches than it is to finally make the judgments. Because
:38:24. > :38:27.unfortunately your advisers are frequently divided. If you take the
:38:27. > :38:30.wrong course, and on occasion I have, the President bears the
:38:30. > :38:40.burden of responsibility quite rightly. The advisers may move on
:38:40. > :38:42.
:38:42. > :38:52.As Governor of the state of Alabama, I for bird this unwarranted action
:38:52. > :38:58.by the central government. -- I for bid. He comes to the office in 1961
:38:58. > :39:08.without much to say about black civil rights in United States. He
:39:08. > :39:11.is then presented over the next the necessity to send troops to get a
:39:11. > :39:18.student in to university in Mississippi. More federal troops to
:39:18. > :39:22.back down the insurrection of the Governor of Alabama. The heart of
:39:22. > :39:31.the question is, whether all Americans are to be afforded equal
:39:31. > :39:37.rights and equal opportunities. he reacts to events. He moves
:39:37. > :39:42.towards civil rights legislation. If an American, because his skin is
:39:42. > :39:47.dark, cannot eat lunch in a restaurant open to the public, if
:39:47. > :39:52.he cannot send his children to the best public school available, if he
:39:52. > :39:55.cannot vote for the public officials to represent him, then
:39:55. > :40:04.who amongst us would be content to have the colour of his skin
:40:04. > :40:14.changed? It doesn't get past but Kennedy does respond. He
:40:14. > :40:23.
:40:23. > :40:28.understands that the racial In the 1990, your sons, daughters,
:40:28. > :40:34.grandson's and grandchildren will be applying to the colleges in this
:40:34. > :40:38.state in a number three times what we do today. Our airports will
:40:38. > :40:44.serve it five times as many passengers. There is a sense he is
:40:44. > :40:50.looking forward to his second term. He was growing in office. He was
:40:50. > :40:58.gaining confidence. That sense he hadn't been defeated. He wasn't
:40:59. > :41:04.checking out. He entered office as a boy, and, had he been allowed to
:41:04. > :41:08.serve his two terms, he might have finished as a man. Euro old man
:41:08. > :41:16.should dream dreams. You're young men it should see visions, the
:41:16. > :41:19.Bible tells us, and where there is no vision, the people perish.
:41:19. > :41:29.President Kennedy in Histon last night, alive and vibrant, looking
:41:29. > :41:44.
:41:44. > :41:48.At night before we would go to sleep, Jack like to play some
:41:48. > :41:53.records and the song he loved the most came at the very end of the
:41:53. > :42:00.record. The lines he loved to hear where, don't let it be forgotten
:42:00. > :42:06.that once there was a spot, for one brief shining moment that was known
:42:06. > :42:13.as Camelot. There will be great presidents again but there will
:42:13. > :42:22.never be another Camelot. transformed the notion of the
:42:22. > :42:27.presidency. Presidency suddenly became the man on the White Horse
:42:27. > :42:30.or the Redeemer. You see the same sort of thing with both Ronald
:42:30. > :42:38.Reagan and Bill Clinton and now Barack Obama. It is the image they
:42:38. > :42:48.have to present, the blank state on which the voters are free to
:42:48. > :42:56.
:42:56. > :43:01.Those are the recollections. We have 1,000 days by which to judge
:43:01. > :43:07.President Kennedy and his presidency. It's not enough, but
:43:07. > :43:12.that's all we have got. How do we draw up a lead of what he achieved?
:43:12. > :43:14.First of all, you have to acknowledge is the cold war
:43:14. > :43:19.President and he confronted one of the most dangerous crisis in the
:43:19. > :43:25.cold war, the one which brought us closest to nuclear annihilation.
:43:25. > :43:29.And yet he also start the process with the Test mandate treaty.
:43:29. > :43:35.Cuban missile crisis, and the handling of it, it's almost over
:43:35. > :43:38.everything else, saving the world. Is that good enough, to say,
:43:38. > :43:48.whatever else is true, it was a successful presidency simply
:43:48. > :43:51.
:43:51. > :43:59.He was very lucky in the missile crisis. But McNamara remembers, we
:43:59. > :44:03.were one of the best generation in American politics, we handled it as
:44:03. > :44:10.best as we could in yet reap almost blew the World Cup. They were so
:44:10. > :44:15.many things they did not know. -- World Cup. They did not know the
:44:15. > :44:21.Russians had tactical nuclear weapons. They did not know there
:44:21. > :44:30.were submarines going and a keeper who might have fired even after the
:44:30. > :44:37.settlement of the crisis. -- going under Cuba. They raise eight
:44:37. > :44:43.domestic agenda and issues which come up one after another. -- there
:44:43. > :44:49.is a domestic agenda. His two books tell us there was a Democratic
:44:50. > :44:57.Congress. -- history books. It was not all that its move because of
:44:57. > :45:03.the kind of democrats there were running Congress. He had a narrow
:45:03. > :45:10.victory. There were no coat tails effect for ordinary congressman. It
:45:10. > :45:20.was particularly true of southern Democrats. They had control of
:45:20. > :45:26.Congress in being a blocking force since 1978. Let's not forget they
:45:26. > :45:32.really were racist. These other Dixie cats. His Democrat party had
:45:32. > :45:36.all his power in the south but they did not agree with him. That is
:45:36. > :45:42.where LBJ came in as the running mate. There's always a problem,
:45:42. > :45:49.what should I do with nutters in the south? There was apartheid in
:45:49. > :45:55.the south. Was it really as bad as that? It was so. How should we view
:45:55. > :46:02.Kennedy? Was a leader to challenge the racist Setup or a follow-up?
:46:02. > :46:08.he became a leader but he was a follower most of the time. He was
:46:08. > :46:15.worried about being outflanked by the Republicans - liberal
:46:15. > :46:19.Republicans from the north-east. They existed in those days. At the
:46:19. > :46:27.end of the day, these white southerners are not going to be
:46:27. > :46:31.reasonable. They are not going to be moderate. There is a decent
:46:31. > :46:36.record. My guess is that people who were watching this President were
:46:36. > :46:42.not making calculations based on these sorts of the achievements on
:46:42. > :46:49.the ledger. There was something big about Kennedy. One reason I left
:46:49. > :46:57.England at that time was adult it was incredibly boring and static. -
:46:57. > :47:02.- was that it was incredibly boring. With Kennedy it was different.
:47:02. > :47:12.it the glamour thing? British politics did not look anything like
:47:12. > :47:13.
:47:13. > :47:21.that, did it? Absolutely not. I went to Paris and Jackie was a
:47:21. > :47:26.stunning success. She suddenly became the star, the celebrity. I
:47:26. > :47:33.think people over here began to think, why can't ours be more like
:47:33. > :47:38.that? You were there in that period, a young student at the time. Yes, a
:47:39. > :47:44.gap year students. It has all the excitement that was generated by
:47:44. > :47:49.the Kennedys. It was palpable. I remember going to an Independence
:47:49. > :47:54.Day party at the Washington memorials. Word was coming round
:47:54. > :47:59.that the President was coming along. You cannot imagine the excitement.
:47:59. > :48:05.David Cameron going to Hyde Park is not the same. Everyone was gripped
:48:05. > :48:11.by the thought he might be amongst us, turned out he was not. That is
:48:11. > :48:18.what made him so bizarre. Was this to do with the glamour or the big
:48:18. > :48:23.foreign policy achievements? Cuban missile crisis had frightened
:48:23. > :48:29.us. That was quite important. Remember his tremendous skill with
:48:29. > :48:35.the media. When you have a young family in the White House for the
:48:35. > :48:40.first time and you play it, you see these interviews with him, it looks
:48:40. > :48:45.good, doesn't it? The key thing is and where he has got the television
:48:45. > :48:50.trick completely right is that he is not talking down. He is asked
:48:50. > :48:56.the question and he replies to the question as if, we would all see it
:48:56. > :49:01.this way, wouldn't we? We were born after the death of Kennedy. Does
:49:01. > :49:07.this still resonate for you? When you hear the speech, ask not what
:49:07. > :49:13.your country can do? I hear the voice of almost every one of the
:49:13. > :49:18.leader coming out of it. He is the playbook for how to communicate.
:49:18. > :49:24.That eye-level communication, you cannot listen to a Tony Blair
:49:24. > :49:29.speech. The Age of achievement and what he wanted to do. Getting hold
:49:29. > :49:34.of the future, that theme was there from Kennedy. They have to look
:49:34. > :49:41.after you but you must not look down on them. You see it in Barack
:49:41. > :49:45.Obama as well. You see Gordon Brown desperately trying to do it.
:49:45. > :49:51.ought to be simple but it is not. I have often asked a politician to
:49:51. > :49:54.walk in front of a camera and you will be amazed how few of our MPs
:49:54. > :50:01.can walk in a convincing way. What is striking that all these things
:50:01. > :50:07.we take for granted, the way a President, to be powerful, must
:50:07. > :50:14.have television power. He is not on his own in the media. Jackie is a
:50:14. > :50:21.dead at television. The sort of talk of the White House. -- the
:50:21. > :50:25.debt. How active was Jackie in the Kennedy household relationship?
:50:26. > :50:30.think she certainly had this vision of the presidency from the social
:50:30. > :50:40.celebrity point of view. The house of the sun came Cup making the
:50:40. > :50:41.
:50:41. > :50:47.White House aide dingy old place but was run by Eisenhower into one
:50:47. > :50:55.of the most glamourous places. it her idea to bring in poets and
:50:55. > :51:01.musicians? Absolutely. It was no good doing this behind closed doors,
:51:01. > :51:07.you have to project it, inviting the cameras in. Also particularly
:51:08. > :51:13.Life magazine. She had a canny use of that. What is strange about it
:51:13. > :51:19.is she could be a very private person. She did look down on
:51:19. > :51:27.journalists, unlike Jack. It was a major part of her role. Camelot is
:51:27. > :51:32.a really odd idea. It was not a really happy place. What it does
:51:32. > :51:37.have his mystique and poetic mystique. It is more enshrined
:51:37. > :51:42.after his death because it has gone. It has gone and can never be
:51:42. > :51:48.regained and you wanted more. talk about the assassination. It is
:51:48. > :51:54.central to the Kennedy mythology it. Let's imagine ourselves in 1963, he
:51:54. > :51:59.is still alive. He seemed to be looking ahead to his second term.
:51:59. > :52:05.How likely was that he would be re- elected? Where their high hopes
:52:05. > :52:15.alert his election in 1960? He was certain he was going to get elected
:52:15. > :52:21.
:52:21. > :52:26.in 60 full. He thought he was going to fight gold water. -- in 1964.
:52:26. > :52:30.did become the Republican standard- bearer. It was going to be a
:52:30. > :52:37.genuine battle of ideas. Kennedy was confident he would win and I
:52:37. > :52:41.think he would have done. The unanswered question, did the
:52:41. > :52:46.Kennedy administration lead to Vietnam or was there a way out that
:52:46. > :52:50.Kennedy would have taken? The counterfactual, because of the
:52:50. > :52:56.lessons he had learned from the Bay of Pigs, and his distrust of some
:52:56. > :53:00.military advisers, might have taken, in the long run, once elected,
:53:01. > :53:08.might have been prepared to take the United States at the Vietnam?
:53:08. > :53:11.But it is his men who have advised Johnson to go into Vietnam. Bobby
:53:12. > :53:17.Kennedy and Ted Kennedy are late in the day in deciding that the war
:53:17. > :53:23.was something they would be against. Popular culture blames Lyndon
:53:23. > :53:31.Johnson for Vietnam. Actually it begins in earnest under Kennedy. If
:53:31. > :53:35.he wanted to stop that much into war, he could have stopped it.
:53:35. > :53:41.you are sensing his unfinished business. An unfulfilled promise.
:53:42. > :53:47.In terms of the great Kennedy myth, very powerful stuff. To have him
:53:47. > :53:52.cut off as a young man, so he never grows old and never has the
:53:52. > :53:57.discipline and of a second term, that gives it a great, powerful
:53:57. > :54:04.drama. There are no images of him as an old man. It is not, here he
:54:04. > :54:09.goes again. Nothing is done for a second time. Tell us about the
:54:09. > :54:13.conduct of Jackie stayed after the assassination. It is famous that
:54:13. > :54:20.she wears the blood stained dress so that people will know what they
:54:20. > :54:24.have done. I think she meant right- wing Southerners at that time.
:54:24. > :54:29.is tempting to be slightly cynical about her conduct, thinking she was
:54:29. > :54:33.even doing her media management then in the days after the
:54:33. > :54:39.assassination. Particularly the funeral. She choreographs the
:54:39. > :54:44.extraordinary funeral. She said, it is all in the guidebook. She meant
:54:44. > :54:48.the White House guidebook, which described the funeral of Abraham
:54:48. > :54:54.Lincoln. There they had the Template and off they went. She
:54:54. > :54:59.seemed to follow up every detail, even down to making Littlejohn
:54:59. > :55:02.salutes his father. Which is the most poignant image of the funeral
:55:02. > :55:10.- the three-year-old saluting his father. The death had just happened
:55:10. > :55:15.and she is able to think about the image-making. She talks to jealous
:55:15. > :55:20.of Life magazine. Straight after the funeral, they were cut the
:55:20. > :55:26.language together, it is Camelot. She made sure that is the image
:55:26. > :55:34.that the Kurds in that article. What has been the effect of the
:55:34. > :55:39.Camelot? In one word, mythology. It claims the past as well as the
:55:39. > :55:45.present he lived in. That is what gives him universality as a
:55:45. > :55:53.political figure. What can you say that his beget in the imagination
:55:53. > :55:59.than Camelot? -- bigger. That is the dream, that is the legacy. It
:55:59. > :56:06.is stronger than anything he could have delivered had he lived. What
:56:06. > :56:11.is the narrative? What is the story? How can we understand it?
:56:11. > :56:17.For the Kennedys it is important to get an agreement with the end and
:56:17. > :56:23.then preserve it. We know he was a womaniser and he was corrupt and he
:56:23. > :56:28.was really in the pocket of the Mafia. You want to preserve this
:56:28. > :56:35.idea that this is one of the great presidencies. It is the case that
:56:35. > :56:41.if another cousin, a quite obscure nephew all great nephew, if they
:56:41. > :56:48.were related to Kennedy, there would be huge interest. Journalists
:56:48. > :56:54.are lazy. If they can repeat a story, they love it. Everybody
:56:54. > :56:59.knows how to write a Kennedy story. Will it have a tragic end? Might
:56:59. > :57:07.they be assassinated? It is so much part of what people know about
:57:07. > :57:12.politics - American politics. if it does not live on, it is in
:57:12. > :57:16.the minds of all politicians in the back of their minds. They all have
:57:16. > :57:25.an inner Kennedy they think they can find. Some of them do it and
:57:25. > :57:32.some of them do not. There is only one JFK. They cannot stop talking
:57:32. > :57:38.about him. It is part of mythology that it is unobtainable. In the
:57:38. > :57:43.2008 campaign, the comparison that was made was with JFK and not with
:57:43. > :57:51.Roosevelt or Lyndon Johnson, who had these big legislative records,
:57:51. > :57:56.what is that? It is about a new generation. Clinton lived in the
:57:56. > :58:03.shadow of FDR. That is the person you needed to emulate. It has been
:58:03. > :58:08.terribly difficult. One of the reasons why Kennedy is such a sort
:58:08. > :58:11.of yearning for Kennedy among Democrats is they have not actually
:58:11. > :58:16.controlled the White House and controlled Congress and had a
:58:16. > :58:21.substantial record since Lyndon Johnson. Johnson is tarnished
:58:21. > :58:27.because of the war. The last one you can look back to his real
:58:27. > :58:35.confidence like, this is the way democrats ought to do it, was John
:58:35. > :58:42.Kennedy. Thank you all. That is all we have time for. Thank you and
:58:42. > :58:49.goodbye. The world is very different now. Nothing has happened