04/05/2016

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:00:13. > :00:15.Halo and welcome to The One Show, with Alex Jones.

:00:16. > :00:18.And halo to you too, Matt Baker!

:00:19. > :00:22.Tonight, in honour of one of our guests we are handing out the halos.

:00:23. > :00:29.We're giving one to a singer with a heavenly voice.

:00:30. > :00:32.It's Lianne La Havas, who'll be chatting and singing live

:00:33. > :00:40.She will be talking about her friend Prince.

:00:41. > :00:46.of the smallest and most intricate art you'll ever see.

:00:47. > :00:49.In fact, some of it is so small you can only view it

:00:50. > :00:52.All that to come - plus elephants, Einstein

:00:53. > :00:57.But, Matt - the guest who has inspired all

:00:58. > :01:00.this halo business - where is he?

:01:01. > :01:03.Don't worry, Al - he's on his way and is even giving a lift

:01:04. > :01:24.In the driving seat - it's the suave, sophisticated star

:01:25. > :01:28.of the classic 70s series Return of the Saint.

:01:29. > :01:32.And with him, the documentary maker who has met both saints and sinners

:01:33. > :01:36.in his quest to bring us the best stories from around the globe.

:01:37. > :01:58.Welcome, chaps. Welcome to the One Show. Have a seat. There you are.

:01:59. > :02:05.You were just driving in, you didn't realise that we have actually given

:02:06. > :02:12.notes and halos already this evening. You can see yours, it is

:02:13. > :02:18.behind you. You are wearing it beautifully. We might leave that on

:02:19. > :02:27.for the whole show. We Robert Lee won't. I think somebody's arm will

:02:28. > :02:29.get sore! You came in the original car from Return of the Saint. You

:02:30. > :02:35.have had problems with it this afternoon? My friend Michael

:02:36. > :02:38.discovered it in a barn in the Shetland Islands and has done a

:02:39. > :02:41.complete restoration. He said he drove it too fast and has done

:02:42. > :02:46.something terrible to it so it is no longer working, but it will again.

:02:47. > :02:53.Thy goodness we have a wonderful special effect steam, you would

:02:54. > :03:05.never have known! -- thank goodness we have a wonderful special effects

:03:06. > :03:11.team. There you go! Well done! You were a fan of the Saint? Eight is

:03:12. > :03:15.wonderful, my 70s childhood dream has been fulfilled. Now you will

:03:16. > :03:21.tell me that you were three! Five! We want you to nominate your own

:03:22. > :03:23.personal saints tonight. Someone who has gone

:03:24. > :03:25.above and beyond to help Send in your photos -

:03:26. > :03:31.tell us why they're a saint and we'll hand out some

:03:32. > :03:40.more halos later. We have got tonnes of them! You

:03:41. > :03:44.might well be one of those heading to the ballot box tomorrow to vote

:03:45. > :03:50.in a wealth of elections all over the UK. On the 23rd of June, no

:03:51. > :03:53.doubt you will be back to vote in the EU referendum. The subject has

:03:54. > :03:59.split opinion, in some cases, even within families.

:04:00. > :04:02.Brothers Nigel and Ian Baxter from Nottingham both followed their

:04:03. > :04:07.father into the freight industry and set up firms just across the road

:04:08. > :04:12.from each other. For the past 21 years, the siblings have been united

:04:13. > :04:19.in their approach to business. But now? For the first time, they

:04:20. > :04:26.are butting heads. It is all over the EU referendum and weather we

:04:27. > :04:35.should Leave or Remain. Who better to sorted this family

:04:36. > :04:43.feud? Me, of course! -- to sort out. We need your assistance. That is a

:04:44. > :04:51.big 10/4, what is your 20? I am on my way, put your pedal to the metal!

:04:52. > :04:56.I am doing it, man! Looks like we have a convoy!

:04:57. > :05:00.The brothers have taken over their local truckstop cafe today. They

:05:01. > :05:04.will both try to persuade passing drivers to vote their way in the

:05:05. > :05:09.referendum. I have come along to make sure things do not get messy.

:05:10. > :05:16.Why do you want to stay in? Fundamentally, the EU is a single

:05:17. > :05:20.free market of 500 million people, hugely important for trade. If we

:05:21. > :05:25.Leave, trade will be more difficult and uncertain, it will affect jobs

:05:26. > :05:30.and investment. Why do you want is to get out? We need to take back

:05:31. > :05:35.sovereignty of the UK Government, deal with the reams of legislation

:05:36. > :05:38.that have affected us. We will have the opportunity to trade properly

:05:39. > :05:43.with the rest of the world, take agreements and bring back control to

:05:44. > :05:49.the UK. The passionate pie dish out opposing views to the diners. A key

:05:50. > :05:53.topic for both its free trade in the single market. Ian's freight company

:05:54. > :05:58.manages the movement of goods across the EU. The process of exporting

:05:59. > :06:03.would be made more difficult if we leave. There would be customs

:06:04. > :06:07.clearance, there may be tariffs, documentation. That is difficult for

:06:08. > :06:11.British companies, especially small businesses. But that he would still

:06:12. > :06:17.want to trade with us, we are a massive customer for their goods? --

:06:18. > :06:21.but the EU would? But if it is easier for a car manufacturer to

:06:22. > :06:25.locate it is business inside the single market rather than outside,

:06:26. > :06:31.in the future I think that is the choice they will make. Big Brother

:06:32. > :06:35.Nigel's truck repair and servicing business deals with manufacturers in

:06:36. > :06:40.France, but he believes that trading will not be affected if we've vote

:06:41. > :06:43.Leave. I can't imagine a situation where we can continue to have a

:06:44. > :06:52.sensible trading well Asian ship. It is in that interest to do an

:06:53. > :06:58.arrangement with us. They are selling is virtually double what we

:06:59. > :07:02.export. Why is it better to be Out? We can open up trading agreements to

:07:03. > :07:06.the rest of the world, we have been hamstrung by the EU, which has

:07:07. > :07:09.failed in many cases to make trading agreements. The brothers have

:07:10. > :07:13.failed in many cases to make trading hour to impress, to which side of

:07:14. > :07:17.the table to these people sit on? We should stay on, safety in numbers,

:07:18. > :07:23.if you pull out you are on your own. Out. I could probably work a few

:07:24. > :07:28.more hours each week instead of Europe telling me I can only drive

:07:29. > :07:30.for nine hours of the day. I am. Anyon, it

:07:31. > :07:34.for nine hours of the day. I am. anyway. I think we should come out,

:07:35. > :07:41.people will not be able to anyway. I think we should come out,

:07:42. > :07:45.It seems the drivers are as divided as the brothers. Can Ian and Nigel

:07:46. > :07:49.see eye to eye on any of the issues surrounding the EU?

:07:50. > :07:54.see eye to eye on any of the issues membership of the EU is good value

:07:55. > :07:58.for money? Certainly not, we sent ?350 million a week to Brussels and

:07:59. > :08:02.we get roughly half of that back, we could have much better distribution

:08:03. > :08:09.of that money while saving ourselves. At Norway and Switzerland

:08:10. > :08:15.paid more in per capita than the UK does for full membership when they

:08:16. > :08:20.only have partial. They don't get a say over the rules. The cost is out

:08:21. > :08:26.of control, it is escalating, if we vote to Remain we can look forward

:08:27. > :08:30.to further escalation. We will have to contribute, even if we Leave, as

:08:31. > :08:34.part of negotiations around trade, so we will enter with a similar

:08:35. > :08:38.bill. With the diner drivers as split as the brothers on which

:08:39. > :08:40.bill. With the diner drivers as the referendum should go on June 23,

:08:41. > :08:45.bill. With the diner drivers as I reckon there was only

:08:46. > :08:47.bill. With the diner drivers as settle this. A good, armed -- good,

:08:48. > :08:55.old-fashioned arm wrestle! It is too host to call.

:08:56. > :09:01.-- too close. They are still going. You have to sort this out by the

:09:02. > :09:06.23rd of June, but we will leave you to it for now! Competitive.

:09:07. > :09:13.Epicentre of the studio is our very own Mr Referendum, Chris Mason. --

:09:14. > :09:17.at the centre of the studio. A month or so ago you

:09:18. > :09:19.at the centre of the studio. A month referendum out of it, how will you

:09:20. > :09:26.display your impartiality this evening? Starting with the socks, on

:09:27. > :09:32.the left but we have a union flag, strict BBC impartiality, so on the

:09:33. > :09:37.other is an EU flag. Then there is mai tai, 12 stars, normally on the

:09:38. > :09:45.EU flag, so we've have five hole once in two halves, six. But the new

:09:46. > :09:51.addition to the wardrobe, no halo for me, but a bowler hat. Strict BBC

:09:52. > :09:59.impartiality, the paint has just about dried! ABI should wear this on

:10:00. > :10:04.the news as well! We look forward to the next edition. -- maybe I should

:10:05. > :10:08.wear this. How do you think the brothers put forward their

:10:09. > :10:11.arguments? They were quite strong? Bye-bye strongly held views, it is

:10:12. > :10:19.an insight into the conversations people are having -- really strongly

:10:20. > :10:22.held views, it is an insight into the conversations people are having

:10:23. > :10:26.when they are thinking about it. I cannot work out whether to keep this

:10:27. > :10:31.on or take it off. I believe it for now. Part of it is the business

:10:32. > :10:37.around facts. Most people come to me and say what I want is facts, juicy,

:10:38. > :10:44.hard facts to make up my mind. Then you go the website of the two

:10:45. > :10:47.campaigns, in the bin campaign it says 3 million jobs are connected

:10:48. > :10:52.with trade with the EU. That could be quite a powerful argument. Then

:10:53. > :10:58.in the Out campaign they say, if we leave, we will be able to trade, it

:10:59. > :11:02.is fine. Neither of those are facts, they are both predictions. Nobody

:11:03. > :11:09.has ever left the EU before, it is changing hugely if we stayed in, so

:11:10. > :11:15.it is guessing. So are you saying go with your heart and guts? That will

:11:16. > :11:18.be a big part. All the statistics are being flung at as in leaflets

:11:19. > :11:22.through the door and people like me droning on in the news, from the

:11:23. > :11:28.campaigns, more and more, we will see the heart. The In campaign sake

:11:29. > :11:32.we would leave Europe, as if the EU would start drifting into the

:11:33. > :11:38.Atlantic, we would still be in Europe but outside of the club. The

:11:39. > :11:43.Out site say that we are a proud, independent nation and we are

:11:44. > :11:47.shackled to this beast called the EU and we can get rid of it. Both of

:11:48. > :11:52.those appeals to our hearts, people trying to get us to think about who

:11:53. > :11:56.we are as a country rather than statistical stuff which can feel

:11:57. > :12:06.scrappy and, let's whisper it, a goal nil-nil drawl. -- a dull,

:12:07. > :12:12.nil-nil. Nobody has ever left the EU, so how would the changes come

:12:13. > :12:17.about? Nobody has ever left, it is only expanded, so you have all these

:12:18. > :12:21.facts, in inverted commas, which are just predictions. If we vote to

:12:22. > :12:27.Leave, the next morning we will wake up and we will still be In, so it

:12:28. > :12:31.takes a while. This is a prediction. Some people say it takes ten years,

:12:32. > :12:35.some people say two. Nobody is certain because it has never

:12:36. > :12:40.happened. All sorts of questions would be asked if we were to Leave.

:12:41. > :12:42.But others say it is a massive decision to stay in, because the

:12:43. > :12:49.club is changing beyond all recognition. The danger is those

:12:50. > :12:55.that do not vote, some people are passionate about In and Out, and the

:12:56. > :13:00.floaters. When was the last time you ever saw a demonstration where

:13:01. > :13:05.people were saying, what do we want? The same! When do we wanted? Now!

:13:06. > :13:11.Some would argue that it is not the same to stay in, that some people on

:13:12. > :13:15.the In campaign are slightly fearful that very few people are passionate

:13:16. > :13:24.about the EU. Even if you're going to vote to stay in, people do not go

:13:25. > :13:28.round kissing their ties, they do not get that passionate. But if you

:13:29. > :13:33.are keen to Leave you would probably really get out there. It is another

:13:34. > :13:36.factor. We will see you again soon, thank you. I will keep working on

:13:37. > :13:42.the wardrobe, thank you for having me. No facts, just links, on the

:13:43. > :13:47.website to help you make up your mind on the EU vote.

:13:48. > :13:50.Louis, we are used to seeing you uncover lots of unusual stories from

:13:51. > :13:55.around the globe, but we think that we have found one that will be new

:13:56. > :13:59.to you. Here is the story of a young lady called Sheila who has packed

:14:00. > :14:02.her trunk and said goodbye to Belfast zoo. Over to Jennie Browne.

:14:03. > :14:05.On the night of the 7th of April 1941, a squadron of Luftwaffe

:14:06. > :14:07.bombers flew across the lough behind me to bring

:14:08. > :14:19.One of the most bombed parts of the city was North Belfast,

:14:20. > :14:24.At the time it was home to a collection of wild

:14:25. > :14:26.and potentially dangerous animals and locals worried what might happen

:14:27. > :14:35.One of the zoo's curators, Alan Cairns, explains.

:14:36. > :14:37.Were people afraid that all the animals would get loose

:14:38. > :14:44.The Ministry of Public Security decided a bomb could hit the zoo

:14:45. > :14:46.and many of the dangerous animals would escape.

:14:47. > :14:50.An order was given by the ministry for 33 animals to be put to sleep,

:14:51. > :14:56.to be shot, and that included wolves and polar bears.

:14:57. > :14:58.But one of the zookeepers, Denise Austin, pleaded for the life

:14:59. > :15:04.There was such a strong bond between Sheila the baby elephant...

:15:05. > :15:11.And Denise made the case at the time that this was just a baby

:15:12. > :15:17.elephant, it wasn't going to cause any problems.

:15:18. > :15:20.Sheila was spared the cull but Denise was still concerned

:15:21. > :15:24.about leaving her alone at night at the zoo amidst the bombing.

:15:25. > :15:28.So every evening, unbeknownst to her employers, she would secretly

:15:29. > :15:31.lead Sheila out of the zoo at Cave Hill, down the city streets,

:15:32. > :15:51.This extraordinary photograph shows Sheila here in her backyard in North

:15:52. > :16:01.I am hoping that Denise's cousin, David Ramsay, can answer a question

:16:02. > :16:06.Where exactly do you keep an elephant at your house?

:16:07. > :16:11.Denise's house, there was a large coach house to one side of it

:16:12. > :16:13.and Denise just found it convenient to park Sheila in that

:16:14. > :16:21.Initially, I think when the first time the elephant was seen outside

:16:22. > :16:23.of the zoo, they were a bit startled.

:16:24. > :16:25.And then they thought, well, that is Denise.

:16:26. > :16:28.And over a period of time, when the elephant was coming out

:16:29. > :16:31.of the zoo every night, they got quite used to it.

:16:32. > :16:34.In fact, some of the small children would have come along

:16:35. > :16:36.and Denise would have set them on the elephant's shoulders.

:16:37. > :16:40.Denise's daily elephant smuggling went well for three months.

:16:41. > :16:45.But then Sheila decided to chase after a neighbourhood dog.

:16:46. > :16:46.Denise thought she had got away with it.

:16:47. > :16:49.All seemed to be well, except a few hours later,

:16:50. > :16:52.some of the householders came up to the head keeper and asked

:16:53. > :16:54.what he was going to do about repairing their fences!

:16:55. > :17:01.The zoo changed the locks to Sheila's enclosure,

:17:02. > :17:05.putting an end to her extracurricular day trips.

:17:06. > :17:07.But the ever-faithful Denise visited the elephant every night

:17:08. > :17:11.during the bombing that spring to comfort her.

:17:12. > :17:13.And did you ever get to meet Sheila?

:17:14. > :17:22.As a small boy, it was one of the treats for me to be taken up

:17:23. > :17:25.to the zoo and then Denise would have called Sheila and Sheila

:17:26. > :17:28.would have spun round very quickly, put her trunk out and then proceeded

:17:29. > :17:30.to hoover Denise all over, just to check it was her.

:17:31. > :17:33.That just shows you that elephants never forget.

:17:34. > :17:37.Sheila saw out her days at Belfast Zoo and lived

:17:38. > :17:43.Today, the zoo is home to three beautiful Asian elephants who live

:17:44. > :17:48.It is kind of a retirement home for older elephants

:17:49. > :17:53.And this caring attitude is a legacy of Denise and the Belfast Blitz.

:17:54. > :18:12.STUDIO: What a lovely story. You don't often deal with an elephant in

:18:13. > :18:16.the garden, Louis, but often there is an elephant in the room in your

:18:17. > :18:21.documentaries. Slightly clunky. How do you approach them? There is

:18:22. > :18:30.always an elephant in the room. There is always something, the

:18:31. > :18:35.reason I'm there, basically. It is either some weird form of behaviour

:18:36. > :18:40.that on the face of it needs explanation, why someone chooses to

:18:41. > :18:45.do this with job, or a source of trauma, sensitive question,

:18:46. > :18:51.do this with job, or a source of is a case of being polite, really.

:18:52. > :18:51.do this with job, or a source of About approaching it sensitively and

:18:52. > :18:56.more often than not, people About approaching it sensitively and

:18:57. > :19:01.talk about whatever it is, the big secret, the trauma in their life. It

:19:02. > :19:06.is gaining their trust and going in there in a way in which they are

:19:07. > :19:10.happy to talk. These documentaries are a great example, one of them has

:19:11. > :19:16.gone out, extreme drinking, which I found, you are in a strange

:19:17. > :19:21.situation where you are doing these strange and heartfelt interviews,

:19:22. > :19:25.interviewing people heavily under the influence of alcohol. Did you

:19:26. > :19:33.find that extraordinary, that situation? I knew what I was going

:19:34. > :19:42.into when I started but what was different, we had a young man called

:19:43. > :19:46.Joe and in a sober state he was very well spoken and very nice and

:19:47. > :19:51.intelligent, but when he had been drinking he was just a mess,

:19:52. > :19:55.basically. For various reasons he did not have the support network

:19:56. > :19:59.around him, friends and family had felt they needed to keep their

:20:00. > :20:06.distance when he was drinking and it fell on my shoulders to do some of

:20:07. > :20:12.that emotional stuff. You could see that, you became like a father

:20:13. > :20:18.figure to him. This character Joe really got under people's skins,

:20:19. > :20:25.Ian, because his mother was also a alcoholic, how do you gain their

:20:26. > :20:27.trust but also keep a distance because you could tell that you

:20:28. > :20:32.really felt for joy when you wanted to look after him a bit more than

:20:33. > :20:37.just making the documentary -- for Joe. I don't know if his mother was

:20:38. > :20:42.an alcoholic, actually, but there was drinking in there somewhere. It

:20:43. > :20:47.is about spending time with people, showing them it is more than just

:20:48. > :20:53.making the programme, that there is a juicy of care, that we spend time

:20:54. > :20:54.after the show making sure that everything goes

:20:55. > :21:02.after the show making sure that duty of care. My director was

:21:03. > :21:07.superb, they make sure they kept in touch with Joe and they showed him

:21:08. > :21:15.the show, but emotionally it is not always easy. In the next documentary

:21:16. > :21:23.you deal with brain injuries. A very different and difficult subject.

:21:24. > :21:29.What did you find out yourself from making that documentary? I've always

:21:30. > :21:33.been fascinated by psychology and people whose brains work in

:21:34. > :21:38.different ways. What I discovered, with brain injury, not always but

:21:39. > :21:42.often, there are changes which go along with it, personality changes,

:21:43. > :21:47.and some of those are challenging for the person in question and he's

:21:48. > :21:55.or her family, they can be in polls of Ms, disinhibition. --

:21:56. > :22:01.impulsiveness. If you have got a husband or partner or kids, they are

:22:02. > :22:06.having to adapt and fit around that, as well. You have brought an

:22:07. > :22:11.exclusive clip and we can have a look at you are meeting Amanda and

:22:12. > :22:16.here she is with her husband after she has moved back into the family

:22:17. > :22:19.home. At the risk of asking an intrusive question, you have been

:22:20. > :22:29.together 22 years, were you happy together? Yes. We were a good team.

:22:30. > :22:33.Best buddies. It was good. It still is good, just different, for the

:22:34. > :22:41.time being. We will get there. LAUGHTER

:22:42. > :22:51.That is the plan. Yeah. Stop tapping. I know, drumming,

:22:52. > :22:59.constantly. Stop it. STUDIO: Gosh. Lovely couple, actually. Such raw

:23:00. > :23:03.material, but clearly there are complex, but there is also a lot of

:23:04. > :23:08.love and it is about finding the balance in the story. You must have

:23:09. > :23:13.had psychologists with you at certain times, because you did not

:23:14. > :23:16.want to go too deep. We did much of it under the umbrella of a group

:23:17. > :23:22.called the brain injury rehabilitation trust and actually it

:23:23. > :23:30.is brain injury week this week and it is a good time to talk about

:23:31. > :23:38.these subjects. We made sure that they were involved and we took their

:23:39. > :23:41.advice. Your new documentary, A Different Brain, is on BBC Two at

:23:42. > :23:48.nine o'clock on the 15th of May. Which photos, if any, do you share

:23:49. > :23:57.online? Do you take a picture of your dinner and then post it for

:23:58. > :24:02.everyone? Maybe you feel your timeline with little fluffy kittens.

:24:03. > :24:08.Maybe like Joan Collins, posting pictures of her shoes and then her

:24:09. > :24:13.puddles. Outside her house. Chances and you do not post pictures of

:24:14. > :24:16.piles of rubbish, but one man who wants to do just that is now finding

:24:17. > :24:22.himself in a battle with the social media giant. It is all over a four

:24:23. > :24:32.letter word. Tommy Sandhu explains. Telegram. For me? There is a man in

:24:33. > :24:37.Kent who has created an app called littergram, but he has been

:24:38. > :24:44.contacted by the noise of Facebook who own Instagram because they would

:24:45. > :24:54.like to change the company's name -- contacted by the lawyers. Danny

:24:55. > :25:00.Lucas, the littergram man. How does it work? It is free to download. You

:25:01. > :25:04.take a picture of litter and it knows exactly where you are, you

:25:05. > :25:09.share it and instantly goes to a receiving end for the local

:25:10. > :25:12.authority. They can message you back straightaway to say they will deal

:25:13. > :25:17.with it or they can say when they will deal with it and then notify it

:25:18. > :25:21.is done. We got a little traction towards the end of last year and we

:25:22. > :25:26.got the first UK Council on board and we wanted to protect our logo.

:25:27. > :25:38.When we did that, the lawyers from Facebook said you cannot use the

:25:39. > :25:45.word gram. Come on, Facebook, it is time you smelt up and -- woke up and

:25:46. > :25:50.smell the instant coffee. Before there were any filters and hashtags,

:25:51. > :25:56.the word gram was used for hundred A.D. In the dark ages, that is like

:25:57. > :26:09.1600 years before Instagram was even thought of. The word gram is old.

:26:10. > :26:19.Old like grandma. No more kissagram is, no more stripper grams. The same

:26:20. > :26:30.applies for you. Celebrities give back your Grammys. No more, sorry.

:26:31. > :26:36.Nothing is sacred. Mr parallelogram is now known as Mr rectangle. This

:26:37. > :26:42.means no more gramophones, diagrams, TV programmes, cardio grams,

:26:43. > :26:52.sonogram, mammogram, and potentially no more littergram. I have a copy of

:26:53. > :26:59.the letter. It says, "Our client appreciates the objectives behind

:27:00. > :27:02.littergram but they say using the name is not except a ball and they

:27:03. > :27:12.are giving you a few months to stop using the term gram -- is not accept

:27:13. > :27:20.double. You're not a threat to Instagram, that is celebrities

:27:21. > :27:25.taking selfies. Exactly. It is everyone's right to use social

:27:26. > :27:28.media? We are only using it as a means of getting the attention of

:27:29. > :27:30.the local authorities. We reached out to the team at Facebook and they

:27:31. > :27:49.gave us this comment. What would you like to see happen? I

:27:50. > :27:52.would like to see Facebook almost support what we are doing morally

:27:53. > :27:58.and said this is a great cause, and with their blessing, littergram can

:27:59. > :28:07.continue. You want to keep the gram? Yes. We hope it gets resolved, one

:28:08. > :28:11.way or another very soon. Ian, we can now talk about your book, your

:28:12. > :28:17.memoirs, Once A Saint. You took over from Roger Moore. As the wonderful

:28:18. > :28:22.Simon Templar. How did this come about, how did you get the part? My

:28:23. > :28:27.agent called me one day and said a man would like to have lunch with

:28:28. > :28:35.me, this was in the early 70s, and he said he bridges to the Saint with

:28:36. > :28:39.Roger Moore -- he produced. He said he thought I would make a good one,

:28:40. > :28:45.which was very nice of him. His wife had seen me in upstairs downstairs.

:28:46. > :28:51.She fancied you. The character was very weedy, asexual. I wondered how

:28:52. > :28:56.she would make a connection between that character and the Saint, and

:28:57. > :29:01.the answer is because I looked a little bit like Roger Moore, and

:29:02. > :29:05.that is why I got the part. I never did an audition, I just walked

:29:06. > :29:07.straight into it, it could not have been any easier. We can have a look

:29:08. > :29:40.at you in full Saint mode. Look out! Are you all right? Yes,

:29:41. > :29:44.thank you. Mr? Simon Templar. APPLAUSE

:29:45. > :29:54.We have enjoyed watching that this afternoon. Are you surprised at how

:29:55. > :30:00.attitudes have changed since then? It is full of girls in bikinis,

:30:01. > :30:05.draped all over you. Sorry, attitudes have changed? What is

:30:06. > :30:11.wrong with girls in bikinis? Nothing. You are quite right, it has

:30:12. > :30:17.changed completely, and for the better, probably. Maybe less fun, a

:30:18. > :30:22.bit drier, but I don't thing in those days, feelings were very

:30:23. > :30:28.bruised and hurt and it is good that we have stopped it.

:30:29. > :30:33.You had fun with the reunion with the car, but there must have been so

:30:34. > :30:40.many pros and cons to playing the Saint. One of the prose was that she

:30:41. > :30:44.became a household name instantly. You could get a good table in a

:30:45. > :30:48.crowded restaurant instantly, but there was not much else. You two are

:30:49. > :30:54.very famous and you have probably made a lot of money, but I did not

:30:55. > :30:59.make money. It was very poorly paid. There were no foreign sales or

:31:00. > :31:05.residuals. The last money I saw from the Saint was a 1979. Your agent

:31:06. > :31:08.must have been rubbish, they did not negotiate that very well!

:31:09. > :31:18.LAUGHTER Either that or maybe I was too keen

:31:19. > :31:20.to take the part and they said, there is a sucker, here! Always

:31:21. > :31:23.pretend you are not keen! That was the sad thing. It was difficult

:31:24. > :31:30.being very famous or not having much money. Was it difficult for you to

:31:31. > :31:34.move on? It was, ibid. For a while, I did not really work on English

:31:35. > :31:37.television because they said, you are the Saint. I have been

:31:38. > :31:37.television because they said, you America for the past 26 years. The

:31:38. > :31:42.difference between America for the past 26 years. The

:31:43. > :31:43.English is that if they make you famous they think you are worth

:31:44. > :31:47.money and they will famous they think you are worth

:31:48. > :31:50.something else and exploit you. At that time in England, I hate Word

:31:51. > :31:52.typecasting because it that time in England, I hate Word

:31:53. > :31:55.really mean anything, but it meant that time in England, I hate Word

:31:56. > :31:57.that they would say, we can't use you, you are the Saint, that was

:31:58. > :31:59.sad. I did not do a lot after that. That lots of other

:32:00. > :32:07.stories in the book. You did lots of after that. That lots of other

:32:08. > :32:13.other television and theatre. But we were really confused, because this

:32:14. > :32:17.is on the cover. That is me in a play. Here is the thing about the

:32:18. > :32:21.cover of an autobiography, they always look the same, a

:32:22. > :32:21.cover of an autobiography, they black-and-white photograph of the

:32:22. > :32:22.person looking glamorous. I my publisher, I want a photograph

:32:23. > :32:31.that people will go, what the my publisher, I want a photograph

:32:32. > :32:34.is that? We did! If it is on the table with lots of other

:32:35. > :32:42.autobiographies, I want mine to be the one they up. Radiant. Ian's

:32:43. > :32:48.memoir, Once a Saint, is out tomorrow. Get ready to squint, soon

:32:49. > :32:52.we will be hearing at sculptures so tiny they are not visible to the

:32:53. > :32:56.naked eye. The first, Cerys Matthews travels to

:32:57. > :33:00.Liverpool to meet twins who specialise in another type of

:33:01. > :33:04.miniature art that requires the patience of a saint.

:33:05. > :33:08.For over 30 years, the Singh twins have been creating intricate art

:33:09. > :33:12.works using the tradition of Indian miniature painting. An ancient tech

:33:13. > :33:19.recombining very fine brush work with vibrant colour to create images

:33:20. > :33:23.of exquisite detail. And although work is created here in a shed

:33:24. > :33:30.studio in their family home, off this leafy street in Liverpool.

:33:31. > :33:35.Hello. Nice to meet you. Lovely to meet you. I have been calling you

:33:36. > :33:39.the Singh twins, it is not being rude, that is how you like to be

:33:40. > :33:43.referred to? Yes, it very much reflect the fact that we have always

:33:44. > :33:48.worked together and we never have individual ownership of any work.

:33:49. > :33:52.Icon from a bedtime when we have not been scribbling, painting or drawing

:33:53. > :33:58.on walls or books when we were very small. -- I can't remember a time.

:33:59. > :34:01.Ernst is covering a shared love of miniature art as teenagers, they

:34:02. > :34:07.have painted together every day, often working for hours on the same

:34:08. > :34:13.tiny piece. It can take 50 hours to 1000 hours. You often have to hold

:34:14. > :34:18.your breath to make sure the lines are straight. You are siblings, do

:34:19. > :34:25.you never disagree? I don't think we would be normal if you did not

:34:26. > :34:27.argue, that we are very much in chewed with each other. Indian

:34:28. > :34:34.miniature paintings have appeared in manuscript since the 14th century,

:34:35. > :34:38.where they were used to decorate religious texts and mythological

:34:39. > :34:44.epics. By the 18th-century they were India's dominant art form. The

:34:45. > :34:48.twins' worker updates the tradition to reflect modern tradition. Their

:34:49. > :34:53.Indian miniature is included Princess Diana, the beckons and even

:34:54. > :34:58.Liverpool footballers. -- Liverpool football supporters. Their work is

:34:59. > :35:03.owned by galleries worldwide and they were recently awarded an MBE by

:35:04. > :35:08.the Queen. They are bravely allowing me to put the finishing touches to a

:35:09. > :35:12.brand-new painting we are creating for a future Liverpool gallery

:35:13. > :35:17.exhibition. You can do a small bit of the top of this figure. You see

:35:18. > :35:23.the flowers on her top, we have left a few of them incomplete. That is

:35:24. > :35:30.it. You are there. This is so exquisite. It is fine. No, I am

:35:31. > :35:37.doing rubbish. That was absolutely terrifying. Luckily for me, this is

:35:38. > :35:41.just one part of this many layered artwork, inspired by the twins'

:35:42. > :35:46.personal fascination with the history of the Indigo dyed trade

:35:47. > :35:49.between India and Britain. Hidden in the painting are a multitude of

:35:50. > :35:58.objects and art from local Devoto museums. Her husband is the one who

:35:59. > :36:04.put a monopoly on indigo in India at that time. She is associated with

:36:05. > :36:11.the city where the Taj Mahal is. It was built as a mausoleum. Where does

:36:12. > :36:15.Queen Elizabeth come in? She ran a commission for the English merchants

:36:16. > :36:19.to trade with India, she is woven into the carpet design at the bottom

:36:20. > :36:23.of the painting. Quite often you incorporate your home city of

:36:24. > :36:30.Liverpool into your work, and we have a pair of Liverpool genes.

:36:31. > :36:37.Flemings was the first company to manufacture denim in the Liverpool

:36:38. > :36:41.area. Denim originates in India. Fascinating, we can't look at denim

:36:42. > :36:45.in the same way. All of these objects can together in the final

:36:46. > :36:51.artwork, for which the twins are mixing tradition with technology is

:36:52. > :36:56.gunning in each individual miniature painting to create a digital

:36:57. > :37:00.masterpiece. -- by scanning in. We have scanned it in and we are

:37:01. > :37:04.dragging it across to the final image, where we put in the final

:37:05. > :37:10.piece of the jigsaw. Absolutely stunning. I love how your eye is

:37:11. > :37:14.just drawn to this indigo blue world. It is all the more beautiful

:37:15. > :37:18.knowing the amount of work at the weeks of preparation that have gone

:37:19. > :37:24.into it. The Singh twins' paintings might be miniature, but their

:37:25. > :37:29.artistic ambition, combining Indian history and modern day Britain, is

:37:30. > :37:32.truly giant. The Singh twins, making beautiful

:37:33. > :37:40.art. We have another miniature artist with us, John Good. Welcome.

:37:41. > :37:47.You have a steady hand! I hope so. This is mesmerising. When and why

:37:48. > :37:52.did you decide to start drawing so intricately? This is all pencil,

:37:53. > :37:57.coloured and lead pencil? I have always painted, but they were mostly

:37:58. > :38:02.on a large scale. My style of painting has always been to have

:38:03. > :38:06.detail. A number of years ago, when I saw the Royal miniature Society

:38:07. > :38:10.asking artists to submit work for the exhibition, I thought that it

:38:11. > :38:15.sounds like me when I looked at the work that was on offer in the

:38:16. > :38:21.exhibition. Trying to get detail into a small area, that appeal to

:38:22. > :38:26.me. There is an amazing amount of detail. How long would it take to

:38:27. > :38:31.complete one of these and how wrong is it to go wrong? For me, they

:38:32. > :38:35.generally take longer than a big painting because of the effort

:38:36. > :38:41.involved in it. It can take, for one of these, 30 or 40 hours, maybe.

:38:42. > :38:45.Yes, things can go wrong. With painting, it is not too bad, but

:38:46. > :38:53.with pencil work you really do not have a second chance, if you make a

:38:54. > :38:57.mistake it is too hard to rub out. When we rehearsed this section you

:38:58. > :39:02.were telling me that you sharpen your pencil with sandpaper? That's

:39:03. > :39:08.right, literally a couple of lines at a time, re-sounding. The irony is

:39:09. > :39:13.that the smaller it is, the more you look at it. From miniature art to

:39:14. > :39:21.microscopic arts, made by MBE Willard Wigan. Willard, thank you.

:39:22. > :39:26.Remarkable. You are doing art in the eye of a needle? Correct. This blew

:39:27. > :39:34.our minds this afternoon. I can't get my head around this. You are

:39:35. > :39:41.looking at a standard sewing needle. Show it to the camera, if you would?

:39:42. > :39:48.There is a standard sewing needle. In the eye of the needle, you will

:39:49. > :39:55.see William Shakespeare. Now! Yes. Look at that.

:39:56. > :40:04.With the words to see or not to see? How do you go about creating

:40:05. > :40:09.something like this? What is he made of and what tools do you use? This

:40:10. > :40:16.type of work requires excessive skill. You have to have this

:40:17. > :40:20.obsessive type of skill. It is almost like trying to put a pin

:40:21. > :40:25.through a bubble, I had to train my heart rate to do it. I work at

:40:26. > :40:31.night. It is something I have done since I was five, it started when I

:40:32. > :40:38.used to build houses as a kid. -- houses for an is as a kid. A dog

:40:39. > :40:41.destroyed the ads' nests, so I felt sorry for the ants and I started

:40:42. > :40:46.making houses and furniture for them. My mother told me that if I

:40:47. > :40:51.went smaller, my name would get bigger. That is what I have done. I

:40:52. > :40:58.have done the smallest man made sculptures in the world, handmade.

:40:59. > :41:02.What tools do you use? As you can see, the tools are made

:41:03. > :41:09.individually. There is a little hook, a blade, they are individually

:41:10. > :41:14.made. It is not the type of thing you can make easily, the tools

:41:15. > :41:17.themselves can be a work of art. It is a punishing process. As you work

:41:18. > :41:21.on it you are not enjoying it, but you enjoy it when you finish. It is

:41:22. > :41:27.the slowing up the heart beat and making sure you do not make a

:41:28. > :41:34.mistake, if you do, it is all over. You have inhaled your art before?

:41:35. > :41:37.Yes, I have. He would be devastated! I was working on the Alice in

:41:38. > :41:44.Wonderland story and I inhaled Alice. I managed to make another

:41:45. > :41:51.Alice which was better than the one I inhaled. That was the right wrong

:41:52. > :41:56.thing, it was a lot better. It is utterly mesmerising to look at. This

:41:57. > :42:05.one here is my brother, I brought him down to size a little bit. Such

:42:06. > :42:10.lovely detail, thank you so much. One more for luck. This is a

:42:11. > :42:14.pinhead, incredible. I have made our house. And a forest.

:42:15. > :42:20.Look that bad. APPLAUSE

:42:21. > :42:30.. Thank you, we'll art. -- look at that. You can see John 's work, and

:42:31. > :42:39.will's work is being exhibited at the Central Library of Manchester.

:42:40. > :42:45.Here is Esther with another dilemma. Dear Esther, my ex-husband sent me a

:42:46. > :42:48.photo of this together on a beach from a holiday we went on in happier

:42:49. > :42:55.times. But we have been divorced four years. Is this a good thing of

:42:56. > :43:01.a bad thing? Should I just ignore it? We will get advice from the

:43:02. > :43:05.people of Portsmouth. She should just ignore rich. Or tell

:43:06. > :43:09.him to stop sending her those kind of pictures. I would probably reply

:43:10. > :43:13.him to stop sending her those kind with a nice message and hope that

:43:14. > :43:17.they are OK. I think I would just walk away. Throw it in the bin. The

:43:18. > :43:21.God I would evaluate it, see what the problem is, see if it is

:43:22. > :43:26.solvable. Do you want to have problems or want to be in love? I

:43:27. > :43:31.would rather be in love. He is adorable, but he has not grasped the

:43:32. > :43:37.point, has he? If he is doing bad, he's not worth bothering about. Just

:43:38. > :43:43.getting on with your life and enjoying it. Maybe give it another

:43:44. > :43:47.go and relive the holiday. What do you think? I agree, because I am

:43:48. > :43:53.going along with the wife. Have you no mind of your run? I just agree

:43:54. > :43:54.and do my own thing. Did you know he was doing that?

:43:55. > :44:02.LAUGHTER was doing that?

:44:03. > :44:06.She does now. Why have you sent this photograph,

:44:07. > :44:10.how would you explain yourself? I am trying to make a jealous, show her

:44:11. > :44:18.how much of a good time I am without her. Oh, the photo is with her?

:44:19. > :44:21.how much of a good time I am without is getting there! Aston we split up,

:44:22. > :44:28.you send that to me. May be a reminder to say how much I still

:44:29. > :44:31.love her. He is sweet. I know how you would respond. You would go

:44:32. > :44:37.crazy? I would rip it up and sent it you would respond. You would go

:44:38. > :44:43.back to him. I just ripped everything up and put it in the bin.

:44:44. > :44:53.Thrown anything out of the window? Plenty of times, lumps and all

:44:54. > :44:56.sorts. Lumps. He is reaching out to her, he should probably get back

:44:57. > :45:01.into her chair and CSA could spark at the old flame. You are much nicer

:45:02. > :45:07.about this than the women I have spoken to. They are all tough. You

:45:08. > :45:13.could say I am a romantic at heart. She should not be absurd. She can

:45:14. > :45:17.either take that as a sign from him, or she can just think, actually, I

:45:18. > :45:21.will not think anything of it, I will just think about that every

:45:22. > :45:27.time we hadn't forget about it -- she should not be upset. He must

:45:28. > :45:32.want her back. Sending a reminder of what you are missing. I suppose it

:45:33. > :45:35.depends why they split up. If he did something wrong, just ignore it

:45:36. > :45:40.because he is not worth the time of day. Here's something I never knew,

:45:41. > :45:46.women are much tougher than men. Funny, that. There you are, I have

:45:47. > :45:50.only been around for 75 years and I had no idea!

:45:51. > :46:04.STUDIO: That is a dilemma, it depends on the exes, I suppose. You

:46:05. > :46:11.probably have more. LAUGHTER I'm just saying it! If you have a

:46:12. > :46:17.dilemma and you would like to take to the streets of Britain, get in

:46:18. > :46:21.touch through the usual ways, and we will get Esther Rantzen on the case.

:46:22. > :46:32.Sorry, I've lost my mind, I feel very bad. We can now talk to Lianne

:46:33. > :46:40.La Havas. You are a guest on Coldplay's world tour, very

:46:41. > :46:48.exciting. How is that? Amazing. It has been so... I've never played in

:46:49. > :46:55.stadiums before, and it is absolutely amazing. We got back from

:46:56. > :47:04.Latin America. I'd never been there. I'd never played music there before,

:47:05. > :47:16.it was unbelievable. We have shots of you in Mexico. You have this

:47:17. > :47:27.incredibly soulful and relaxing worldly voice, where does that come

:47:28. > :47:36.from? I don't know. Your dad is Greek. Yes, my parents parents were

:47:37. > :47:43.from Greece and Jamaica. Grease on my father's side and Jamaica on my

:47:44. > :47:51.mother's side -- Greece. And they made me! I like to think my style

:47:52. > :47:54.and music is very eclectic and I think I owe that to my parents and

:47:55. > :48:01.grandparents, for the eclectic taste. Prince was very impressed

:48:02. > :48:11.with your style, and you worked with him and you became friends, how did

:48:12. > :48:22.that come about? He basically phoned me. Out of the blue. He said, I,

:48:23. > :48:31.this is Prince? Yes. He had seen you somewhere? I think he heard my music

:48:32. > :48:37.when I released my first EP in 2011. One day I got a message from my

:48:38. > :48:40.management saying that Prince would like to have a phone call with me,

:48:41. > :48:47.we did not know when it would happen. I just had to have my phone

:48:48. > :48:54.on me. How did you feel at that point when it was him on the other

:48:55. > :49:00.end? Completely ridiculous. The most surreal phone call I've ever had. It

:49:01. > :49:06.gets weirder, he ended up in your flat, performing. Right at the

:49:07. > :49:17.beginning was the phone call, and after we spoke, we stayed in touch

:49:18. > :49:21.ever since. We became friends. He basically e-mailed me one day and

:49:22. > :49:28.said, I've got this idea and I want to do a press conference in your

:49:29. > :49:36.living room. What did you said your flatmate? LAUGHTER

:49:37. > :49:46.I said, so, Prince is coming round tonight. It was just amazing. Any

:49:47. > :49:51.time that I spent with him was amazing. He had his way of making it

:49:52. > :49:59.feel like it was your birthday or the time. We are very sorry you have

:50:00. > :50:05.lost a dear friend. You must be very jealous, you are a big fan? It would

:50:06. > :50:13.have been amazing, what was he like? Was he quite normal? He seems so

:50:14. > :50:18.otherworldly. He was otherworldly and he seems to maintain that even

:50:19. > :50:24.when we just hanging out. -- he seemed. He was absolutely lovely.

:50:25. > :50:37.Where was your flat? I'm trying to visualise it. It was a terraced

:50:38. > :50:48.house and it was in Leighton. -- Leyton. Did you make him tea or

:50:49. > :50:56.coffee? We made him build a's T. -- builders do. You will be back in the

:50:57. > :51:03.UK, performing? We will be back on the road from the 24th of May.

:51:04. > :51:09.Lovely. Lianne will be performing for us shortly. Albert Einstein

:51:10. > :51:14.pointed out in 1905 that time is relative. It is so true. If you are

:51:15. > :51:19.ever struggling to understand the theory of relativity we have one

:51:20. > :51:24.scientist with crazy white hair to explain the theories of another. We

:51:25. > :51:30.are all familiar with the regular tick and talk of a clock, as it

:51:31. > :51:37.measures out time. But what if time was not regular? Suppose it could go

:51:38. > :51:46.faster or slower. What sort of world would that be? The idea that time

:51:47. > :51:51.can speed up and slow down came out of the most important science idea

:51:52. > :51:56.of the 20th century, the theory of relativity, invented by the great

:51:57. > :52:09.Albert Einstein. I will explain it using a tennis ball, torch and a

:52:10. > :52:14.train. I'm throwing this ball around ten mph and the ball is travelling

:52:15. > :52:21.at that speed. Right? Not so, says Einstein. Imagine there is somebody

:52:22. > :52:28.watching from outside the train. Here comes the train. I told the

:52:29. > :52:38.driver to go at ten mph. I'm looking for some bloke playing catch. There

:52:39. > :52:46.he is. Right. The ball went past me at 20 mph and that makes sense,

:52:47. > :52:53.because the speed of the ball was ten mph plus the speed of the train

:52:54. > :52:59.itself. For me, on the platform, the ball was moving at 20 miles an hour.

:53:00. > :53:04.But for me on the train, the ball is travelling at ten miles an hour and

:53:05. > :53:08.that is relativity. The ball does not have just one speed, only a

:53:09. > :53:14.speed relative to where you measure it from. But now things get really

:53:15. > :53:18.weird. Einstein was interested in the speed of light, is mathematical

:53:19. > :53:22.calculation is leading to a startling conclusion. The speed of

:53:23. > :53:31.light is always the same, no matter where you measure it. Let me show

:53:32. > :53:38.you why this is weird. This time I have got a beam of light. The speed

:53:39. > :53:44.of light measured on this train is about 186,000 miles a second, what

:53:45. > :53:51.happens if I shine a light out of the window, though? You might think

:53:52. > :53:56.that it would be the same as with a tennis ball, the speed of light plus

:53:57. > :54:00.the speed of the train. But if you measure the speed of the light beam

:54:01. > :54:06.from the platform it is exactly the same speed as the light beam on the

:54:07. > :54:13.train. No matter how fast the train goes, the speed of light is always

:54:14. > :54:17.constant. Cup of tea, please. Light is constant and speed is relative,

:54:18. > :54:23.but what about time? Einstein proved that time, just like speed, was

:54:24. > :54:29.relative, anchored speed up and slow down depending on how fast you were

:54:30. > :54:34.travelling -- and code. This meant a clock on a fast moving train runs

:54:35. > :54:42.very slightly slower than the one left behind at the station. This is

:54:43. > :54:47.the National physical laboratory in Teddington, their atomic clocks are

:54:48. > :54:54.some of the most accurate in the world, accurate to one second in 150

:54:55. > :55:00.million years. With clocks this accurate, Einstein's weird ideas

:55:01. > :55:05.about time can be tested. In 1971. The Joseph from Saint Louis but

:55:06. > :55:11.three seats on an aeroplane, one for him and two from Mr Clarke, Mr

:55:12. > :55:17.Clarke was an atomic clock and they also left an identical clock at

:55:18. > :55:24.home. Mr clock food wise around the world, East first of all like this,

:55:25. > :55:29.and then all the way West bash flew twice around the world. They then

:55:30. > :55:35.compared the clocks and the times were different. It was only a

:55:36. > :55:39.minuscule difference, but they exactly matched Einstein's

:55:40. > :55:43.predictions. Einstein's genius was to take a simple idea and to run

:55:44. > :55:50.with it, and it took him some strange places. But he changed the

:55:51. > :56:00.way we think about time for ever. STUDIO: Thank you. We have time for

:56:01. > :56:06.a few of the saints. This is Margaret, a real-life saint, that is

:56:07. > :56:12.because she spends her time caring for the community young and old.

:56:13. > :56:20.Sally sent this photo of her bone marrow donor. He saved her life

:56:21. > :56:29.seven years ago. Give him a halo. And this was sent in by her husband

:56:30. > :56:33.Matt, she has been looking after him because he has man flu.

:56:34. > :56:38.We'll be back tomorrow night with comedian Susan Calman.

:56:39. > :56:42.Now, playing us out with Tokyo from her album Blood -