:00:22. > :00:23.Hello and welcome to the One Show Arms
:00:24. > :00:28.Tonight, we're pulling pints, talking pubs and celebrating
:00:29. > :00:30.the role they play in our lives and communities.
:00:31. > :00:40.Behind the bar is our landlord for the night - Suggs.
:00:41. > :00:46.He's APPLAUSE going to be telling us about how Madness
:00:47. > :00:49.started their career in north London's pubs.
:00:50. > :00:57.While Suggs keeps the drinks flowing, we'll also be chatting
:00:58. > :01:10.This is very rustic. It is. Relax, have a drink. We will find out why
:01:11. > :01:15.you are sporting those whiskers. And we mustn't forget our friends
:01:16. > :01:18.out in the beer garden, Our pub band for the night -
:01:19. > :01:27.the Lumineers. # I belong with you
:01:28. > :01:45.# You belong with me. They'll be performing their new
:01:46. > :01:48.track at the end of the show. And we're going to introduce them to
:01:49. > :01:55.a few Great British pub traditions. There's also a serious side
:01:56. > :01:59.to tonight's programme because our pubs are under threat,
:02:00. > :02:15.with 27 closing each week. Thanks. You have been telling us
:02:16. > :02:19.what has been happening to your pubs and we have created this map at each
:02:20. > :02:24.beer mat represents a different pub and story. We have colour-coded
:02:25. > :02:31.them. Green representing good news, where a pub has been saved. The
:02:32. > :02:36.Craw's Nest in Scotland, it was saved by four friends after the
:02:37. > :02:40.former owner decided to close it. All of the staff stayed on and the
:02:41. > :02:48.previous owner is now the manager. There are stories of pubs imperil in
:02:49. > :02:53.amber. Like the Bay Horse in north Yorkshire. It was put up for sale
:02:54. > :02:58.and the community have fought to raise money to buy their pub. They
:02:59. > :03:04.have until September to raise those funds. There are sad stories of pubs
:03:05. > :03:08.who have had to call time for good, but we hope some of them will reopen
:03:09. > :03:15.and we have coloured those in red. The Carlton Tavern in London, it is
:03:16. > :03:23.one we know well because the One Show football team drank there.
:03:24. > :03:27.Property developers demolished the papa despite the council turning
:03:28. > :03:30.down their planning permission. The council have said they have to
:03:31. > :03:33.rebuild it brick by brick but the developers are fighting that
:03:34. > :03:39.decision. We will tell as many stories as we can tonight, we know
:03:40. > :03:43.this map is far from complete. If you have a story about your pub get
:03:44. > :03:49.in touch to tell us what has happened. And if you can, include a
:03:50. > :03:54.picture. The future of our local is being
:03:55. > :03:58.decided in a hearing so I know how it affects communities. If you are
:03:59. > :04:03.watching from a pub, said a picture and we will raise a glass to you. We
:04:04. > :04:10.are the only ones without a drink here. I have just spotted that.
:04:11. > :04:16.Martin, you do not drink, you gave up alcohol a long time ago. I made
:04:17. > :04:22.up for it before that! You still enjoy a pub and all the travelling
:04:23. > :04:24.you do in theatre productions up and down the country, do you have
:04:25. > :04:32.favourites, anywhere you can recommend? There is a favourite
:04:33. > :04:40.called the Bird in Hand in Norfolk I go to with terrific food. That is
:04:41. > :04:45.why I go. I am a vegetarian. You are fussy, Martin. Whereabouts in
:04:46. > :04:53.Norfolk? That would be in South Norfolk. That is as clear as I am
:04:54. > :05:00.going to get. What makes the ideal pub? Conde Vialli and a well-run pub
:05:01. > :05:03.and a place where people go on a regular basis and so you get to know
:05:04. > :05:13.people in your area which is what all pubs should stand for --
:05:14. > :05:21.conviviality. George Orwell and the moon under the water, a pub that did
:05:22. > :05:26.not exist. You said Ron well but the fact of the matter is not all
:05:27. > :05:32.deserve to stay open, many close because we are going out less, I do
:05:33. > :05:43.not mean we, but asked in general and drink is cheaper at home. There
:05:44. > :05:48.is also a need for more housing. And most of us find neighbourhood
:05:49. > :05:51.supermarkets handy but many pubs are valuable if they develop and the
:05:52. > :05:56.government has recognised something needs to be done. The boarded-up pub
:05:57. > :06:03.is a familiar sight in towns and villages up and down the land. It is
:06:04. > :06:08.estimated we are losing 27 per week and while doubtless some do not have
:06:09. > :06:13.customers to keep going, others are falling victim to something beyond
:06:14. > :06:18.their control, property prices. Actor Neil Stuke of Doctor Foster
:06:19. > :06:24.fame has campaigned for years to save our locals. What is happening?
:06:25. > :06:28.They are an easy target for developers and are being sold off
:06:29. > :06:32.cheap and closed down and redeveloped, like this one, our
:06:33. > :06:39.local. This sort of thing is happening everywhere. Two miles away
:06:40. > :06:44.the Golden lion has been in the Murphy family for 38 years. You can
:06:45. > :06:48.see it is a handsome Victorian building and for the landlord Dave
:06:49. > :06:54.Murphy and his mother Mary that was the problem because converted into
:06:55. > :07:01.flats, it would be worth millions. I have been here since 1978, it is a
:07:02. > :07:05.family run pub, and we know most of the community and they know us and
:07:06. > :07:10.it is a lovely establishment to drinking. What happened? We got told
:07:11. > :07:18.a developer has daughters in 2011 and they were going to turn it into
:07:19. > :07:24.flats. -- had bought us. What did they see? Lovely high ceilings.
:07:25. > :07:29.There is a lot of space to turn in flats and they have just seen money.
:07:30. > :07:36.It is not just flats. Pubs are being converted into supermarket at the
:07:37. > :07:43.rate of two a week. In Derby 1000 locals signed a petition to save the
:07:44. > :07:47.Rose and crown, a pub since 1753 and the owners Marstons want to sell it
:07:48. > :07:51.to a discount supermarket who plan to replace it and the church with a
:07:52. > :08:00.shop and car park creating at least 25 jobs. Campaigner Roy has been
:08:01. > :08:03.drinking at the pub for 25 years. We are upset about the fact that not
:08:04. > :08:09.only do they want to knock it down, just for it to be a piece of tarmac
:08:10. > :08:15.is terrible. You have got some figures. We would like somebody with
:08:16. > :08:21.more knowledge than we have to actually go through these properly
:08:22. > :08:27.and prove the pub is viable. We showed a chartered surveyor and pub
:08:28. > :08:36.assess the information Marstons provided. What do the figures tell
:08:37. > :08:41.you? They tell me the pub is doing 700,000, 750,000 sales. It is a
:08:42. > :08:45.classic case of the successful pub, no reason why it should not be
:08:46. > :08:50.successful, but its value is probably higher with an alternative
:08:51. > :08:55.use. Marstons save feelings here are mixed. They say Simon Clarke's
:08:56. > :08:59.assessment is wrong and they have invested in the rose and crown for
:09:00. > :09:06.years with little increased benefit and they say they have built 120 new
:09:07. > :09:20.pubs in Britain creating more than 5000 jobs, and in Kent, this grade
:09:21. > :09:24.two listed pub was pub until bought by developer who wanted to turn it
:09:25. > :09:29.into a house. Neil Stuke got involved in the campaign to save it.
:09:30. > :09:32.There is always shocked to think a council who are responsible for
:09:33. > :09:39.heritage could so easily strike it off. What is safe these days? The
:09:40. > :09:44.Houses of Parliament, the Tower of London, will that be a Tesco?
:09:45. > :09:49.Through his legal drama he met barrister Philip Coppel, a top
:09:50. > :09:55.planning QC, who examined the case for keeping the Chequer Inn as a pub
:09:56. > :10:01.and effectively wrote a planning template to save your local. I hope
:10:02. > :10:07.that it serves as a template. Each case will have to be decided on its
:10:08. > :10:12.merits and each example will have particular facts. The report worked
:10:13. > :10:19.as councillors voted to overturn the decision. The building was packed
:10:20. > :10:28.with campaigners to save the Chequer Inn. It was an extraordinary night.
:10:29. > :10:33.I cried. Some councils have woken up to the threat facing disappearing
:10:34. > :10:40.pubs. Camden in London is one. Outside the place he hopes Mark a
:10:41. > :10:46.line in the sand, I met this counsellor. What happened to the
:10:47. > :10:52.Crown Goose hammered home to Camden that we cannot afford to lose
:10:53. > :10:56.these pubs. Residents want thriving pubs in the heart of the community
:10:57. > :10:59.and we have strengthened our policies to make sure when
:11:00. > :11:05.developers come knocking they will have a hell of a job to get it
:11:06. > :11:09.passed our planning department. That shift turned the Golden lion into a
:11:10. > :11:17.Phoenix as after three years, developers abandon the plans. I
:11:18. > :11:23.managed to buy the freehold and we can look forward to the future now,
:11:24. > :11:27.it is brighter for us, now we know where we stand with the business and
:11:28. > :11:38.the building, to remain for the community for the next 38, 40 years.
:11:39. > :11:43.Neil Stuke has joined us. Watching you in that film was extraordinary,
:11:44. > :11:49.you were emotional. Great news about the Chequer Inn. How did you meet
:11:50. > :11:57.Philip Coppel the QC? I was lucky playing a senior clerk in Silk, I
:11:58. > :12:03.called up a senior clerk mate and within minutes, literally, he put us
:12:04. > :12:10.in touch with Philip. It was a great kindness of Philip to give his time.
:12:11. > :12:17.Obviously, they are not cheap! The village had a whip round and paid
:12:18. > :12:22.for his time. Hopefully as he said he has set a template to use in a
:12:23. > :12:26.future to save others. This is one of many you have campaigned for and
:12:27. > :12:33.community is your thing, it is shops, everything. We are the victim
:12:34. > :12:40.of the Dartmouth Arms closing which Suggs used to use as well, which has
:12:41. > :12:46.been closed, along with the Black Cap in Camden. They are closing
:12:47. > :12:51.down. That was a rousing local vibrant place you used to go with
:12:52. > :12:56.lovely food and everything, it is really sad. On a side note, I have
:12:57. > :13:04.to talk about Doctor Foster. You were nominated for Bafta. There is a
:13:05. > :13:09.second series, we believe. Are you part of it? Yes, filming in
:13:10. > :13:20.September. Any spoilers? Absolutely not. It is brilliant. I loved the
:13:21. > :13:25.first one. Thanks. Philip Coppel QC's report on the Chequer Inn is on
:13:26. > :13:33.the website and might be helpful for you to use it if you are looking to
:13:34. > :13:39.save your pub. From a QC to an inspector, who is also partial to a
:13:40. > :14:00.tipple. Very good.
:14:01. > :14:12.I have just come to say night night. I will popping on Mrs Parker
:14:13. > :14:22.tomorrow. You do know you have got... ?
:14:23. > :14:23.Yes. Yes. APPLAUSE
:14:24. > :14:33.Very skilful. You have the same glass. Do you want
:14:34. > :14:37.to try it? I am kidding! George dentally is up in Durham, where
:14:38. > :14:44.there are some good pubs. I wish I had time to visit them. 14 hours a
:14:45. > :14:51.day, no chance. Let's explain these sideburns. What is going on. The
:14:52. > :14:57.character you play likes a drink in the new Theatre production. Not
:14:58. > :15:04.half, Henry Horatio Hobson. It is interesting you talk about pubs
:15:05. > :15:11.because the pub is central to the story. He is a helpless alcoholic. I
:15:12. > :15:14.spend most of the evening staggering around the stage, pontificating,
:15:15. > :15:20.which is funny. He is off down the pub most of the time.
:15:21. > :15:27.You have been teetotal for years, so how does it work in your mind,
:15:28. > :15:37.playing a drunk? In the years leading up to teetotal, I drank
:15:38. > :15:42.enough for four lifetimes, so the muscle memory is still there. I only
:15:43. > :15:50.have to do that a few times. You studied Hobson's Choice, the play
:15:51. > :15:55.you are doing, did that make you more inclined to do it or less?
:15:56. > :16:00.Definitely more, this is the third time I have done the play, I did see
:16:01. > :16:03.it in 86 to three when I was a drama student at the old Vic theatre, and
:16:04. > :16:12.it was a departure from the broad comedy that was the ethos of the
:16:13. > :16:17.time, because it was more like a method was the thing in 63, so they
:16:18. > :16:21.were doing a very realistic version of it, without sacrificing the
:16:22. > :16:25.comedy, because it is a very funny play, and it inspired me completely,
:16:26. > :16:33.I thought, that is what I want to do. Is there any of his Hobson in
:16:34. > :16:36.yours? I do think so. I can't remember in any detail, and you
:16:37. > :16:44.can't really imitate another actor's performance. Can you, Neil? But you
:16:45. > :16:49.can be inspired by it, I kind of get where he is going, but it has to be
:16:50. > :16:53.an internal process. If you try to do it from the outside, it won't
:16:54. > :16:59.work. Having done this before, do you change the way you play him? I
:17:00. > :17:06.haven't played Henry before. I played one of the smaller parts in
:17:07. > :17:13.1966, and in 1970, I played a slightly larger part, I am making my
:17:14. > :17:20.way up the cast. And Hobson's Choice is going all over the country,
:17:21. > :17:33.plenty of nice pubs en route! You can perfect the play before it hits
:17:34. > :17:36.London files. A lot of young actors don't want to any more, because it
:17:37. > :17:40.is hard work, you are living out of a suitcase, but the benefit is by
:17:41. > :17:44.the time you get to the West End, you had a chance to polish it, try
:17:45. > :17:49.that in front of an audience, see what works, and it has the added
:17:50. > :17:54.benefit of not being London centric, you are letting people in the
:17:55. > :17:58.provinces set capital work. You mentioned living out of a suitcase,
:17:59. > :18:04.little bird told us you carry vegetarian food around with you. Is
:18:05. > :18:08.that true? If you are on tour and staying in a hotel and you get back
:18:09. > :18:12.to the hotel at 11 o'clock, you know watching your show tells alike, room
:18:13. > :18:21.service, that looks nice but it finishes at ten o'clock. Very
:18:22. > :18:29.organised. All of your clothes smell of falafel!
:18:30. > :18:33.LAUGHTER Hobson's Choice opens at London's
:18:34. > :18:39.vaudeville Theatre on the 8th of June. Pubs perform all sorts of
:18:40. > :18:41.roles in the community, as a hub where people can get together. But
:18:42. > :18:46.they can also help people get together. When a pub has been the
:18:47. > :18:50.starting point for at least 80 marriages, we know it is doing
:18:51. > :18:58.something right. # You've done it all... There is a
:18:59. > :19:04.positive energy, definitely. When you step in the door, you feel it.
:19:05. > :19:11.It is like a club, but it is definitely a pardon. It is a natural
:19:12. > :19:17.thing that happens. You spill a bit of beer on people occasionally, but
:19:18. > :19:24.it is all part of the fun. This is Nicky. And this is down. We met here
:19:25. > :19:30.in 2003, that classic cliche of the barmaid and the doorman. It took him
:19:31. > :19:42.a fair few months to get the courage up to ask me out. Luckily she hadn't
:19:43. > :19:46.been asked out by anybody else. That was 13 years ago, and we have been
:19:47. > :19:49.married for seven. Everyone is having fun and relaxing, and when
:19:50. > :19:54.their eyes meet, that is it, you're just being yourself and that is
:19:55. > :20:02.naturally attractive. I'm Julie. And I only. The Frog and Frigate has
:20:03. > :20:07.paid a massive part in our lives together, it is my wedding day, I
:20:08. > :20:12.have my dress on and my make-up, I am running behind schedule, and my
:20:13. > :20:16.dad said, had you fancy nipping past the Frog and Frigate on the way, and
:20:17. > :20:19.we will get our photo taken outside. So we stopped the car and jumped
:20:20. > :20:23.out, and the chauffeur took a picture of us outside the Frog and
:20:24. > :20:31.Frigate, and we were late for the ceremony. Very late! We asked the
:20:32. > :20:36.owner of the Frog and Frigate to play at our wedding reception, and
:20:37. > :20:40.it was literally a night at the Frog and Frigate for our wedding
:20:41. > :20:43.reception, which was amazing. We had family members who had never
:20:44. > :20:54.experienced the Frog and Frigate dancing on tables. It was fantastic.
:20:55. > :20:59.S my name is Dom. I'm Sam. We met here are the Frog and Frigate in
:21:00. > :21:03.1988. She was a regular and we gradually got to know each other and
:21:04. > :21:08.ended up getting married. The attraction at first was he was quite
:21:09. > :21:12.shy, and it is quite an outgoing pub, so it was his quietness that I
:21:13. > :21:17.liked, something a bit different. When Sam asked me out, I thought it
:21:18. > :21:19.was an opportunity couldn't miss. We got on really well, eventually got
:21:20. > :21:30.married, and we have been married now for 25 years. 27. 20-something.
:21:31. > :21:34.I don't think there is a Cupid working behind the bar, I just think
:21:35. > :21:41.a few too many pints, and people are more open to saying it is ex-blue
:21:42. > :21:58.eye and Derek, I am the landlord of the Frog and Frigate. And I am the
:21:59. > :22:02.landlady. Lots of ladies were noticing him, but I won through
:22:03. > :22:04.somehow, and we have been together ever since, and we have just
:22:05. > :22:11.celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary last week. The pub is
:22:12. > :22:18.central to our relationship. It keeps us definitely together. The
:22:19. > :22:21.Frog is like a fifth member of our family, there is a picture of it on
:22:22. > :22:41.the shelf at home. APPLAUSE
:22:42. > :22:46.There you are, if you want to get hitched, go to Southampton!
:22:47. > :22:50.We had our first date in our local pub, and it can be romantic. I am
:22:51. > :22:55.worked off my feet here, to be honest. I met my wife above a pub,
:22:56. > :22:59.she and her friends had a clothes shop, and I don't know about
:23:00. > :23:04.romantic, but it was a very handy place to hang out while she was
:23:05. > :23:09.finishing doing her make up downstairs in the pub. It is like
:23:10. > :23:16.Eastenders standing here, watching you on the screen. I'm talking to
:23:17. > :23:23.somebody, just wait a minute! It could work. You did give us, get out
:23:24. > :23:30.of my pub earlier on. You grew up around pubs, didn't you? Most of my
:23:31. > :23:33.generation did. Most of my family worked in pubs at different times,
:23:34. > :23:36.you show up clip of a pub in Camden called the Crown and Goose, my
:23:37. > :23:44.daughters worked there, we met there is a band,. We met in pubs in
:23:45. > :23:49.Camden, it was the only place to hang around. The Hope and anchor,
:23:50. > :23:54.that was where we got one of our earliest gigs. And the Dublin
:23:55. > :23:57.Castle, that was a very Irish pub, which they all were in Camden in
:23:58. > :24:03.those days, and the governor said, what is your act, lads? That is my
:24:04. > :24:08.Welsh accident. I really like the way you have made the floor sticky,
:24:09. > :24:14.it is so authentic. And we told him we were country and western, which
:24:15. > :24:19.is when seven skinny teenagers start leaping about playing Jamaican ska,
:24:20. > :24:25.the Irish regulars were confused. You do what you have to do. He sold
:24:26. > :24:31.a few pints, and we got a residency in the pub. And Madness, still going
:24:32. > :24:36.extremely strong. And this year is a particularly busy year for you,
:24:37. > :24:39.isn't it? It is funny, people talking about the demise of selling
:24:40. > :24:43.records, the live thing has got better and better, and for us as a
:24:44. > :24:49.half decent live band, we're getting more and more festivals. We are
:24:50. > :24:54.doing our own one of Clapham Common on the 28th 29th, and we are also
:24:55. > :24:58.making our own beer which you can taste if you can come there. So when
:24:59. > :25:02.you say your own festival, you are putting it on yourself? We did one a
:25:03. > :25:05.number of years ago in north London, I have never been south of the river
:25:06. > :25:11.in my life, it is a whole new experience! I am still working out
:25:12. > :25:19.on the map where it is. We thought, why should south Londoners have to
:25:20. > :25:24.miss out on Madness? And a new album, as well? A new album, will it
:25:25. > :25:30.never end? As long as the knees hold out. And where are you going with
:25:31. > :25:37.this new album, and how does that fit in with the sound of Madness? I
:25:38. > :25:42.like time to observe ordinary people's lives. I think we have just
:25:43. > :25:46.carried on some of that tradition, which is trying to turn an ordinary
:25:47. > :25:55.life into something theatrical, and have a bit of fun. They are closing
:25:56. > :26:06.the Kinks pub in Muswell Hill. Mr angry at the back here, don't get
:26:07. > :26:09.him going! He is absolutely right. Pubs are part of our community, get
:26:10. > :26:16.out there and save our pubs! APPLAUSE
:26:17. > :26:21.Well said, thank you so much for being a fantastic landlord for us.
:26:22. > :26:26.Madness' one-day festival, House of Common is on the bank holiday in
:26:27. > :26:31.August, the 29th. We asked you to send us pictures of you in the pub,
:26:32. > :26:40.and you have done it! I like this one, this lot are drinking in the
:26:41. > :26:50.red Lion in Shropshire. He is missing, where did he go? The golden
:26:51. > :26:58.rule in Cumbria, and finally, Brydon is watching us there. Now it is time
:26:59. > :27:00.to head back over to Helen, who has this massive UK map to hear some
:27:01. > :27:04.more of your stories. Thank you. I have picked out a
:27:05. > :27:10.selection which show some of the things you can do to protect your
:27:11. > :27:15.pub. The first one is the Maybush in Essex, and when they're pub was put
:27:16. > :27:20.up a sale, locals applied to have it listed as a Asset of Community
:27:21. > :27:24.Value, or a CD. This gives a community Group 6 months to try to
:27:25. > :27:28.raise the money to buy their pub. In this case, the developers were put
:27:29. > :27:33.off, the community bought their pub, and it had its official opening last
:27:34. > :27:39.weekend. However, critics say that an ACV isn't a complete answer,
:27:40. > :27:43.owners can reject a bid from locals and sell to a developer if they can
:27:44. > :27:46.get planning permission. That happened at the Tumbledown Dick in
:27:47. > :27:52.Farmborough, Danny in red on our map. The community got it listed as
:27:53. > :28:00.an ACV, but it was still converted into a McDonald's. Now let's take a
:28:01. > :28:07.look at the Haydn cross here in the Black Country, which we have marked
:28:08. > :28:11.on our map. Tim Howard ski has led the campaign against plans to build
:28:12. > :28:17.a committee supermarket on the car park of the pub. Building a store on
:28:18. > :28:22.the car park and demolishing the beer garden will basically make the
:28:23. > :28:26.pub on viable. It needs to remain as it is with its car park and beer
:28:27. > :28:32.garden. It is a busy pub with its own football team, three darts
:28:33. > :28:37.teams, a quiz night, food, parties, weddings, wakes. It is a very busy
:28:38. > :28:42.pub and we needed to stay as it is. What is the present position? Our
:28:43. > :28:47.local council rejected the most recent planning application, which
:28:48. > :28:51.was rejected overwhelmingly in November, and the landowner has
:28:52. > :28:55.until the 23rd of May to appeal, so we are ready if indeed they do. If
:28:56. > :28:59.you are trying to save your local from development, please make sure
:29:00. > :29:02.that you get as many objections as you can posted on the planning
:29:03. > :29:05.application on the council's website. This encourages councils to
:29:06. > :29:09.hear applications at a planning committee where your voice can be
:29:10. > :29:14.heard rather than it being decided behind closed doors. Also with me
:29:15. > :29:20.here is Beckford anglers rest in Derbyshire. Not only did you get
:29:21. > :29:24.your pub and ACV status, you save the last pub in the village. The
:29:25. > :29:30.community bought it, which is a feat in itself. During the two years of
:29:31. > :29:34.our campaign, it became clear that the post office in the village was
:29:35. > :29:37.also at risk, and the village said very clearly, we want to protect the
:29:38. > :29:42.post office as well, so we brought it into the mix, made it part of our
:29:43. > :29:47.plans, and we now have a pub, post office and a daytime cafe all under
:29:48. > :29:51.the same roof. We have activities going on every single day, so
:29:52. > :29:54.tonight is pie and quiz night. You are missing that? I am, to be here
:29:55. > :30:01.tonight! APPLAUSE
:30:02. > :30:05.David Richard will be putting the final touches to the quiz as we
:30:06. > :30:09.speak, and Adam will be putting out his amazing pies. We are not
:30:10. > :30:13.stopping there, we have just got a grant from the Power to Changed to
:30:14. > :30:17.look at what we can do with the upstairs of the building, so we have
:30:18. > :30:19.plans to develop and build further on our community hub. You are an
:30:20. > :30:24.amazing lady! APPLAUSE
:30:25. > :30:31.We are not just talking country pubs here. Warren is from the bevy, which
:30:32. > :30:35.I think I'm right in saying is the first community owned pub on a
:30:36. > :30:38.council estate, isn't it? You've added a lot of support and
:30:39. > :30:43.enthusiasm for it, but it wasn't always easy, was it? The pub had a
:30:44. > :30:50.troubled history and was closed for five years, so it took us five years
:30:51. > :30:54.of raising money to finally open, and we have been in 18 months. You
:30:55. > :31:00.have to be more than a pub to survive, so we have friends club, a
:31:01. > :31:05.senior club, a repair cafe, disability groups, running club,
:31:06. > :31:09.community choir, so many different things going on. Say you are ready a
:31:10. > :31:13.proper community pub, supporting people in your area? It is about
:31:14. > :31:16.bringing people together, creating jobs, working with local schools so
:31:17. > :31:20.they have apprenticeships, putting the heart back in the community,
:31:21. > :31:25.that is why our vicar always said, this is father John. Raise a glass
:31:26. > :31:31.to father John! Finally with us in the corner, Jack is landlord of the
:31:32. > :31:33.Queens head in London's East End, and you are trying to buy your pub
:31:34. > :31:44.at the moment. And we had a stroke of luck, the
:31:45. > :31:51.Queen's Head, 180 years old, the most historic pub in the East End
:31:52. > :31:55.bar none had been in trouble until my partner and I saved it and now
:31:56. > :32:00.the people who owned it decided to sell it to us and with the help of
:32:01. > :32:04.the Plunkett Foundation and architectural Heritage fund and
:32:05. > :32:08.local community we are hoping to buy it, but anybody with an interest in
:32:09. > :32:17.the history of London should get down there with their cheque-book.
:32:18. > :32:22.One lady who would be interested in your story is the Queen Mother. She
:32:23. > :32:27.has visited the pub twice, once when she was courting the King at the
:32:28. > :32:32.time, during the Blitz 's, and three times, the Queen Mother has been
:32:33. > :32:39.there, the only pub royalty has visited in the East End. You are not
:32:40. > :32:46.there. I was not even born! With 27 pubs closing every week, communities
:32:47. > :32:50.cannot always step in that funds are available and the government has
:32:51. > :32:55.announced 3.6 million over the next two years you can apply to for
:32:56. > :32:59.grants so if you would like to save your pub there is information on the
:33:00. > :33:04.website. Legislation is different depending on whether you are in
:33:05. > :33:12.Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland. Thanks to my guests.
:33:13. > :33:21.Inspiring stories. Thank you. I would like to try one of Adam's
:33:22. > :33:25.amazing pies. The problem of pubs closing is so acute, the government
:33:26. > :33:32.has opened its own fund to help community campaigns. It has
:33:33. > :33:37.appointed a pub referee, Paul Newby, to sort out disputes. Heller reckons
:33:38. > :33:48.you have a tough job on your hands. Pub land Lord Dave is a good
:33:49. > :33:52.listener. He advises tenants in dispute with the companies who own
:33:53. > :34:00.their pubs, the so-called pubcos. I do not want anybody to be where I
:34:01. > :34:08.was five years ago. And if I can help people to avoid that, I will.
:34:09. > :34:13.Before moving to the Boat, he spent five years at another Derbyshire pub
:34:14. > :34:18.as a pubco tenant but left with mounting debts that would bankrupt
:34:19. > :34:29.him. You are facing bankruptcy, all of the emotional impact it has. You
:34:30. > :34:37.feel you have failed your family. The pubco who owned this pub said
:34:38. > :34:42.the dispute with them is long since settled and in no way representative
:34:43. > :34:49.of their current business model. In most talented pubs owned by pubcos
:34:50. > :34:55.breweries the landlords have to buy the beer from them at fixed higher
:34:56. > :35:01.prices. Unlike the rising Sun, the Boat is a free house and Dave can
:35:02. > :35:10.buy his drink wherever he wants. Here a pint of Pedigree sells for
:35:11. > :35:16.around ?3. As free of tied tenant he gets ?2 profit. If he were tied and
:35:17. > :35:24.Hatton by the beer from the company he would pay 80p per pint more. --
:35:25. > :35:32.had to buy the beer. He has negotiated on behalf of 50 other
:35:33. > :35:43.unhappy pubco tenants. It is a purely one-sided agreement. Quite
:35:44. > :35:49.often we can get results for them. Working with pubcos and breweries
:35:50. > :35:51.works well for many tenants, but in 2011, MPs on the business
:35:52. > :36:00.innovations and skills Select Committee concluded the beer tie and
:36:01. > :36:05.high rents were closing pubs. The industry said it would change, yet
:36:06. > :36:09.in 2014, the Campaign for Real Ale said the odds were still stacked
:36:10. > :36:15.against tenants. There was an inequality between the way the
:36:16. > :36:19.pubcos were acting towards tenants, put simply they were seeking to make
:36:20. > :36:25.too much money from the relationship in our opinion and maintaining
:36:26. > :36:34.tenants offered in a position of poverty, frankly. Until 2005, this
:36:35. > :36:39.man worked for pubcos. While no longer employed by pubcos, he does
:36:40. > :36:43.not want to be identified because he still works in the hospitality
:36:44. > :36:49.industry and fears for his employment. He says a rapid turnover
:36:50. > :36:54.in tenants was simply accepted. The tenants were cannon fodder. If
:36:55. > :36:58.landlords did a good job and were successful, after three years the
:36:59. > :37:02.red with the increased and that was when problems would begin. Landlords
:37:03. > :37:09.would find it almost impossible to make a living. This is a
:37:10. > :37:12.confidential online forum, where landlords can seek advice and
:37:13. > :37:19.support from each other. There are hundreds of stories of struggling
:37:20. > :37:26.tied tenants. Pubcos say it is simply not in their interests to see
:37:27. > :37:32.tenants struggle. Bridget Simons heads the British beer and Pub
:37:33. > :37:38.association. The pub tie is a low-cost entry into running your own
:37:39. > :37:42.business and is a partnership with the pub company who will support you
:37:43. > :37:47.and provide capital investment, about 200 million a year from our
:37:48. > :37:53.companies, and they want you to succeed. A new law coming in, the
:37:54. > :37:58.Pubs Code, it is aimed at ensuring tied tenants get a fairer deal. It
:37:59. > :38:03.means as agreements come up for review tenants will be able to leave
:38:04. > :38:09.the beer tie and negotiate a fair market rent. How have pubcos
:38:10. > :38:12.responded to the legislation? We will respect the legislation. We do
:38:13. > :38:17.not like statutory legislation but we look forward to working with the
:38:18. > :38:24.adjudicator. We have a voluntary system and we will build on that and
:38:25. > :38:28.we accept it. A decade after it was mooted, will the Pubs Code mean
:38:29. > :38:37.tenants can pull pints without one hand tied behind their back?
:38:38. > :38:41.Paul Newby is the newly appointed Pubs Adjudicator and I am informed
:38:42. > :38:55.your drink of choice is a pint of foaming ale. Slightly short!
:38:56. > :39:00.But I got it to foam. We should stress that many tied pubs operate
:39:01. > :39:04.without disputes and some do not work because they are not well
:39:05. > :39:14.managed. But a report commissioned by the Campaign for Real Ale found
:39:15. > :39:22.20% of tight licensees earned 50,000 -- ?15,000 or more a year. What is
:39:23. > :39:26.your message to people? Tenants work long hours and should be able to
:39:27. > :39:34.earn a decent living. That must be clear. What is the code about? It is
:39:35. > :39:41.to create a better and fairer relationship, to look at any
:39:42. > :39:47.imbalances in the big pubco, small tenant relationship and deal with
:39:48. > :39:53.those. I suppose in a nutshell where they exist, it is to achieve a level
:39:54. > :39:59.playing field and where necessary to provide protection for tenants. And
:40:00. > :40:04.a role that is well needed. I know landlords who have fallen victim of
:40:05. > :40:09.this. The stories we heard in the film. How strict can you be with the
:40:10. > :40:15.Pub companies? How can you be sure they will not recoup the money in
:40:16. > :40:22.other ways? The code addresses this issue in a number of ways. Let's be
:40:23. > :40:26.clear. We do not know how they might come at us but if there are a unfair
:40:27. > :40:30.practices the code is meant to deal with it. How strict can it be? It
:40:31. > :40:36.can be very strict if it needs to be. There are parts of the trade
:40:37. > :40:41.where the relationship is quite good but there are parts that are not and
:40:42. > :40:49.I want to ensure the parts that are not properly looked at. Some may say
:40:50. > :40:53.that your CV suggests, your relationship with pub companies,
:40:54. > :40:59.that you would find it hard to be impartial in this case, how will you
:41:00. > :41:04.take that forward? I am concerned about these comments. I do not want
:41:05. > :41:09.them to get in the way of the code. You used to sell properties that
:41:10. > :41:15.were pubs to be developed? Let me be clear about that. I have huge
:41:16. > :41:19.respect from the people who have worked so hard to get this code and
:41:20. > :41:26.I want nothing that will get in the way of that. I need to work on this
:41:27. > :41:31.area. I have never worked for a pub company but in my last role I worked
:41:32. > :41:36.for a company that gave advice to pub companies. I also gave advice to
:41:37. > :41:42.tenants, as well. It is good you know how both sides work. I am
:41:43. > :41:46.coming from this in the round and am able to look at it from all sides
:41:47. > :41:52.and I want to use that to implement the code. How worthwhile are these
:41:53. > :41:58.campaigns we are hearing about tonight? This proves it, doesn't it?
:41:59. > :42:05.The attention has been achieved, it is fantastic. The pub is an
:42:06. > :42:10.important part of British life, history, culture, social lives, we
:42:11. > :42:17.want to see them thrive and the code is an important part in the pubco
:42:18. > :42:23.tenant market, it is an important part of helping them survive. You
:42:24. > :42:27.think the number, 27 a week, will be different next year? Let's hope so.
:42:28. > :42:37.Otherwise we will get you back and find out! As well as the foaming
:42:38. > :42:43.ale, you have to have a few nibbles. We have pork scratchings, pickled
:42:44. > :42:49.eggs. How are the sausage rolls? Good? They do not look particularly
:42:50. > :42:54.appealing. I am sure Ricky's spaghetti he has been cooking with
:42:55. > :42:57.Dire Straits' bassist John Illsley will be nicer.
:42:58. > :43:01.Seafood at the seaside is a winner but today we are leaving the rocks
:43:02. > :43:07.behind because we are cooking for a rock star. John Illsley is known as
:43:08. > :43:14.the bass player and co-founder of Dire Straits. After international
:43:15. > :43:18.success in the 80s he still makes music, but he is a man of many
:43:19. > :43:24.passions and one of them is food. Hello, John. Nice to meet you. You
:43:25. > :43:29.look like you have the vegetables. We should go and cook. Come and meet
:43:30. > :43:34.the family. He moved to Hampshire at the height of his fame with his wife
:43:35. > :43:39.and four children. His eldest James has left home but his daughters and
:43:40. > :43:46.other Sun are often around, especially when food is on offer.
:43:47. > :43:51.Seafood, is it a family favourite? Very much so. We live by the coast
:43:52. > :43:57.and it is available locally. What are we making today? We will have
:43:58. > :44:03.spaghetti with clams from down the road. Garlic from the Isle of Wight,
:44:04. > :44:10.tomatoes, onions, Chile and white wine, fresh parsley. Simple. Where
:44:11. > :44:15.did the passion for food come from? From my parents, because they grew
:44:16. > :44:20.vegetables in the garden. I grew up with a healthy diet which is what we
:44:21. > :44:24.try to pass on to our kids. Normally we get everyone involved in doing
:44:25. > :44:29.this but there is not enough room around the table. That is the prep
:44:30. > :44:35.done. It is time for a pint. I like the sound of that. The philosophy of
:44:36. > :44:40.choosing local is not limited to food. After moving here, John bought
:44:41. > :44:47.his local, the perfect place for that pike. What made you by your own
:44:48. > :44:53.pub? A slight moment of madness. I loved the way it looked and thought
:44:54. > :44:57.if I did not buy it, somebody would come along and take the character
:44:58. > :45:03.away. I was given instructions to leave the public bar as it is. It
:45:04. > :45:09.has been the same for 20 years. You feel relaxed. Completely. It is a
:45:10. > :45:12.safe haven. At the peak of their success the music of Dire Straits
:45:13. > :45:21.was known all over the world. We ended up quickly feeling we had
:45:22. > :45:27.something that was unique. It was very exciting. In a sense, it is
:45:28. > :45:36.every schoolboy's dream to be in a rock 'n' roll band and buy a pub.
:45:37. > :45:40.When Mark and I decided to call it a day in 92, 93, I took up painting
:45:41. > :45:46.and started painting here pretty much full time. A few years into his
:45:47. > :45:50.new life, John was diagnosed with leukaemia. It is a shock when
:45:51. > :45:55.someone tells you when you are 50 you have ten years to live. We beat
:45:56. > :46:01.the odds, anyway, but I kept it under wraps and I kept it from the
:46:02. > :46:06.children. I had a transplant in 2011. Five years, I am clear now.
:46:07. > :46:11.All is well. John and I have been chewing the fat while the family
:46:12. > :46:14.have been cooking the lunch. How is it going? Look at this. This is
:46:15. > :46:28.perfect. And it's looking good. You guys all
:46:29. > :46:34.enjoy cooking? Efan Atlee, especially on weekends when we are
:46:35. > :46:44.all at home together. -- definitely. And who is the best cook? Let's not
:46:45. > :46:48.start an argument. D is a really good baker, so she does the Brownies
:46:49. > :46:51.and cakes. Alongside his love of food, John's musical journey
:46:52. > :46:57.continues, but life is a far cry from his rock 'n' roll days, and he
:46:58. > :47:01.spends much less time on the road. I like my life down here, I like the
:47:02. > :47:06.pub, the food, my family, and I don't want to put any of that at
:47:07. > :47:12.risk. Treat every new day as a present.
:47:13. > :47:16.That was absolutely beautiful. Thank you all very much for having me.
:47:17. > :47:26.It's a pleasure. Nice to see you. Thank you, Ricky. Dire Straits was
:47:27. > :47:32.my first album. I shouldn't say that to you. I heard a couple of numbers,
:47:33. > :47:37.but they were very long, weren't they? We have some stories to add to
:47:38. > :47:43.the map, I am slightly panicking, because my geography is rubbish.
:47:44. > :47:50.South Northamptonshire, the end was on the brink of closing, bought back
:47:51. > :47:56.by Margaret and John. It is somewhere around here, thereabouts.
:47:57. > :48:00.Excellent, what next? Villagers have saved this from being turned into
:48:01. > :48:09.residential accommodation, and it is in North Devon. Show the picture,
:48:10. > :48:15.and I will pop that there, apologies to the Molesworth arms if I have got
:48:16. > :48:28.that wrong. And this is just come through. Our local pub, the oak and
:48:29. > :48:32.Derwin is in the village of... Alex, please, you should be doing this!
:48:33. > :48:38.Village in Wales, it has been rescued by locals who now run it as
:48:39. > :48:43.a not-for-profit business employing local people. North Wales. Let's put
:48:44. > :48:50.it there so it doesn't squeeze anything out. And the weather here,
:48:51. > :48:52.there would be a Terol bit of rain coming down from Scotland...
:48:53. > :48:59.LAUGHTER Thank you so much that everybody who
:49:00. > :49:01.has written in to tell us about your pub.
:49:02. > :49:06.Originally thought that Suggs should be the Barman at the Queen Vic, but
:49:07. > :49:14.I think he should be doing the weather! I'm not sure about his
:49:15. > :49:18.Welsh pronunciation! We are joined by Rachel from the British skittles
:49:19. > :49:25.championship. You have been organising matches for 20 years now.
:49:26. > :49:33.22, actually. So what got you into it? Have a go, come on. As a family,
:49:34. > :49:39.we just loved playing skittles, and it was one of those things. It just
:49:40. > :49:47.brings everybody together. And quite a few still have alleys like this.
:49:48. > :49:51.APPLAUSE There are hundreds of skittle alleys
:49:52. > :49:56.all across South Wales, the South of England, the West Country. It is a
:49:57. > :50:01.massive pub sport, fantastic. And you were saying these weekends can
:50:02. > :50:05.get quite lively. Very lively, we take thousands of people every year
:50:06. > :50:15.on our Skrtel weekends, and it is great fun. Tell us about the Dorset
:50:16. > :50:20.flop. You are going to do it in just a moment. I have been practising it.
:50:21. > :50:23.Basically you have the upper hand it straight bowling, which is very
:50:24. > :50:26.popular, and in Dorset they have much bigger balls...
:50:27. > :50:31.LAUGHTER You are going to have to rephrase
:50:32. > :50:36.that. They do! They have bigger balls in Dorset! So what they
:50:37. > :50:40.discovered is a way of throwing it which you actually launch yourself
:50:41. > :50:44.down the alley, and it is very unique, you have to see it. They get
:50:45. > :50:49.into this position because they have bigger balls? But the women do it
:50:50. > :50:53.much better. I apologised ever be in Dorset, this is my way of doing it.
:50:54. > :51:03.I hope I get it right now. No pressure! And there it is!
:51:04. > :51:07.APPLAUSE Wesley, how do British pubs compared
:51:08. > :51:16.to American bars? The beer is a little warmer here. Our beer is ice
:51:17. > :51:22.cold. Have a go, then. Double hands, that is it. Here is Mike in the
:51:23. > :51:30.meantime with a British bird that could do with a bit more being heard
:51:31. > :51:37.of after tonight! He will be puffing after that!
:51:38. > :51:44.For the last decade, the population of puffins in Northern Ireland has
:51:45. > :51:46.been in decline. Usually increase in predators, the population has halved
:51:47. > :51:53.since 1999, with numbers still falling. So, to make sure puffins
:51:54. > :51:58.continue to successfully breed here, an ambitious project was started
:51:59. > :52:01.four years ago. I'm on the lighthouse Island, part of the
:52:02. > :52:05.Copeland Islands, home to a whole variety of sea birds, including Manx
:52:06. > :52:12.shearwater, black guillemots and arctic tern is. But until recently,
:52:13. > :52:18.no puffins. The Copelands lie around two miles off the coast of Northern
:52:19. > :52:20.Ireland in the Irish Sea, but the puffins have been bypassing these
:52:21. > :52:24.islands as they journey to other breeding sites. However,
:52:25. > :52:29.conservationists are now trying to encourage them to stop here. The
:52:30. > :52:34.British trust for ornithology is in charge of the project. The real
:52:35. > :52:38.problem with puffins is they are so faithful to their breeding site, it
:52:39. > :52:41.is hard to get them to spread. They are really loyal to the site they
:52:42. > :52:46.were born in, and so we have to try to persuade them that Copeland
:52:47. > :52:51.Islands are really good place for to breed. Why are the Copelands
:52:52. > :52:54.potentially so good for puffins? There are no to wrest real
:52:55. > :53:02.predators, so we don't have wrapped, cats, ferrets, mink, Foxes, things
:53:03. > :53:07.that eat ground nesting sea birds. A secluded, safe place the sea birds
:53:08. > :53:13.to breed. Also another couple of reasons why the Copelands should be
:53:14. > :53:17.good for puffins, the sea is rich in sand eels, their favourite food.
:53:18. > :53:22.Plenty of potential for accommodation here, the island has
:53:23. > :53:26.already rabbits and Manx shearwater who breed underground, so any vacant
:53:27. > :53:30.holes like this, perfect for the puffins to move in. It is the young
:53:31. > :53:35.adolescents that Shane and his team want to encourage here, due to not
:53:36. > :53:38.yet been completely loyal to their birth site, as their priority is
:53:39. > :53:42.looking for a mate. So to attract them onto the island, some highly
:53:43. > :53:46.experimental ideas have been put in place. Hopefully to convince passing
:53:47. > :53:52.puffins that puffins are already here.
:53:53. > :54:00.This is brilliant. I think it is termed a puffin two pronged attack.
:54:01. > :54:06.One is a sound system playing puffin calls. That is the sound of a
:54:07. > :54:10.contented puffin? I have to assume it is, because it works, the puffins
:54:11. > :54:15.came almost as soon as we put the sound out. And we also have decoyed
:54:16. > :54:20.puffins, and we have put these around the slope, around us here, so
:54:21. > :54:24.that with the sound and the decoys, those adolescent puffins that have
:54:25. > :54:31.been seen on the water are being attracted, and think that this is a
:54:32. > :54:34.puffin colony already. Within a week of the project starting, eight
:54:35. > :54:39.puffins were recorded on the island. And now there are thought to be
:54:40. > :54:47.around 80. But the real success will be when they finally breed here. As
:54:48. > :54:51.they lay only one egg Beere, deep in a burrow, it is hard to tell if they
:54:52. > :54:54.have bred or not. But there are signs to look out for. I could sit
:54:55. > :55:01.here and watch puffins all day long. But what I want to know is, are they
:55:02. > :55:06.breeding? We have had some cracking courtship displays. The precursor to
:55:07. > :55:10.mating. Absolutely. And in the last couple of days, we have seen them
:55:11. > :55:16.coming ashore with food in their bills. Which is incontrovertible
:55:17. > :55:19.proof there are checks? Absolutely. They will not bring food ashore
:55:20. > :55:23.unless they are coming to feed chicks, so that is proof. It is
:55:24. > :55:28.fantastic. We are only at the very beginning, we have lots of puffins,
:55:29. > :55:33.but only one or two pairs breeding. It is taken us for years to get this
:55:34. > :55:37.far, but it is the start of a new colony, and hopefully over the next
:55:38. > :55:46.number of years, that colony will grow and grow, because we have got
:55:47. > :55:53.them now. It is fantastic. I think they are delighted that the
:55:54. > :55:57.puffins are coming back this year to Copeland, too.
:55:58. > :56:03.You have agonised huge rings, you have homes to go to, go away! It is
:56:04. > :56:07.not closing time, but it is almost the end of the show. Thank you to
:56:08. > :56:11.all of our guests, and everyone who has got in touch to tell us about
:56:12. > :56:22.their pubs. And of course the best way to support your local pub is to
:56:23. > :56:30.use it. Martin's Place, -- play, Hobson's Choice is an soon, and
:56:31. > :56:35.Suggs is Festival. We will be back tomorrow with Jose
:56:36. > :56:39.Cubero is. But now, singing their new song, the Lumineers!
:56:40. > :57:14.# I got a new girlfriend here
:57:15. > :57:29.# And you can't see past my blindness
:57:30. > :57:35.# You've been on my mind, girl, since the flood
:57:36. > :57:49.# Heaven help the fool who falls in love
:57:50. > :58:00.# You got big plans and you gotta move
:58:01. > :58:24.# You've been on my mind, girl, like a drug
:58:25. > :58:31.# Heaven help a fool who falls in love
:58:32. > :58:35.# You've been on my mind, girl, since the flood
:58:36. > :58:42.# Heaven help a fool who falls in love
:58:43. > :58:49.# You've been on my mind, girl, like a drug
:58:50. > :58:58.# Heaven help a fool who falls in love #
:58:59. > :59:03.APPLAUSE CHEERING