:00:23. > :00:27.with Matt Baker and Alex Jones. 40 years ago, to my's guest is met in
:00:27. > :00:34.New York. It was the start of a relationship that would reduce some
:00:34. > :00:44.of the most memorable music of the 70s and 80s. 40 million record sales
:00:44. > :00:51.
:00:51. > :00:59.and six number ones later, Blondie are still going strong.
:00:59. > :01:09.# Soon turned out, had a heart of Glass
:01:09. > :01:25.
:01:25. > :01:31.Please welcome Debbie Harry and The interesting thing is that you
:01:31. > :01:39.were holding your head in your hands. What was that about? I don't
:01:39. > :01:47.know. What was I thinking? What was I doing? Your fashion is still
:01:47. > :01:50.relevant today. You made some very good choices. Thank you. Let's go
:01:50. > :01:55.back to the start when you first set eyes on each other, because you said
:01:55. > :02:01.there was a psychic connection. can't explain. How can you explain a
:02:01. > :02:11.psychic connection? It's impossible. It was an affinity,
:02:11. > :02:11.
:02:11. > :02:16.perhaps. It was very easy. It was wonderfully easy to relate to this
:02:16. > :02:26.complete stranger in the audience. You said like a silhouette at the
:02:26. > :02:27.
:02:28. > :02:34.time. He was back lit. Like all of you. Was it anything to do with his
:02:34. > :02:41.eyebrows. He has great eyebrows. does have very nice eyes. That is
:02:41. > :02:46.why I wear these! Blondie was formed and the rest is history and you are
:02:47. > :02:49.on tour this summer. We will talk more later. Ike macro if a child in
:02:50. > :02:55.your family behaves badly at school and faces permanent exclusion, do
:02:55. > :02:58.you think they should be put in a more disciplined classroom, or a
:02:58. > :03:03.more easy-going one? Tony Livesey has visited one place where they
:03:03. > :03:09.hope a softer approach can help avoid consigning children to the
:03:09. > :03:13.education scrapheap. This might look like an ordinary classroom but it is
:03:13. > :03:19.far from it. Most of these kids are on the verge of thing permanently
:03:19. > :03:27.excluded from school. One of them is 16-year-old Katie. How bad did it
:03:27. > :03:32.get? Everybody used to wind me up. What did your mum make of it first
:03:32. > :03:39.remark she was fed up, she was in school more than I was. It was
:03:39. > :03:43.causing my mum more hassle than it was me. Rathbone 's is one of
:03:43. > :03:46.several schemes offering another kind of schooling for 11 to
:03:46. > :03:52.16-year-olds who are not getting on in mainstream education. The
:03:52. > :03:58.difference is that the teaching style is less formal. And you might
:03:58. > :04:02.say it is a bit more relaxed. forward to coming here most of the
:04:02. > :04:06.time, more than school, because you can wear your own clothes and do
:04:06. > :04:11.what you want. Not what you want, but they will let you go out to the
:04:11. > :04:18.shop at dinner. At school, you cannot go out and you have to wear
:04:18. > :04:21.the uniform. It was not the right place for me. Last year, over 5000
:04:21. > :04:27.children were permanently excluded from state schools in England.
:04:27. > :04:37.Furthermore, only 1.4% of excluded kids get five good GCSEs including
:04:37. > :04:38.
:04:38. > :04:42.maths and English. Right, let's have a bit of time out. So, teaching here
:04:42. > :04:46.certainly has challengers. I will never forget my first day of working
:04:46. > :04:52.here. I walked into a zoo. That is the only way I can describe it,
:04:52. > :05:02.really. But I saw something in every one of those young people. Who have
:05:02. > :05:03.
:05:03. > :05:08.you chosen? Because she is caring. That is a good trait. They have
:05:08. > :05:11.opted out of school, so how do you make them opt back in again? I give
:05:11. > :05:17.them belief that whatever they want to achieve in life, they can do
:05:17. > :05:21.that. Two of the puppies open their eyes last night. It macro are you a
:05:21. > :05:26.sorrow that mother? They call me mother hen, mother Goose, probably
:05:27. > :05:31.some other names. I am not a family member and I am not their friend. I
:05:31. > :05:35.am fully aware that I am their Chuter, but it is my style of
:05:36. > :05:39.teaching. A teacher once said to me, you cannot do this job for the money
:05:39. > :05:49.or the holidays, you have to love the children. And I do love those
:05:49. > :05:56.kids. My mum came to school and said, can you do anything for him?
:05:56. > :06:00.They said here. And I came here and enjoy it a lot better. Katie is the
:06:00. > :06:06.fourth member of her family to go here. Her sister splits her time
:06:06. > :06:11.there with her local high school. school, I would sit in class and I
:06:11. > :06:17.would not work because I would feel ill. Everyone is quieter here and we
:06:17. > :06:22.do not argue as much. It has helped us to grow up and see what is
:06:22. > :06:29.happening around us. It has brought you back into society. Are you
:06:29. > :06:35.helping around at home? Sometimes. It is not a miracle worker. It will
:06:36. > :06:40.not make you do the washing up. have a dishwasher for that. They
:06:40. > :06:43.like it, but can such a relaxed environment actually benefit them?
:06:43. > :06:47.What about those who say it is a copout because the kids come here
:06:48. > :06:54.and they can have toast when they get here and play football in the
:06:54. > :06:58.afternoon and go home early. answer is, whatever works. And trust
:06:58. > :07:01.me, this thing works. We have a class that has just passed out and
:07:01. > :07:06.everyone has gone on to something positive that college, further
:07:06. > :07:12.training, or even into work. Amongst that group are people with the worst
:07:12. > :07:16.attendance record at high school. When I was told I was coming here, I
:07:16. > :07:19.expected mayhem. But having spent time with the kids in the classroom,
:07:19. > :07:24.I have come to understand that they want to have a go at life, but
:07:24. > :07:27.perhaps on theirs to -- on their terms. If places like this can teach
:07:27. > :07:34.them how to do it but keep within the rules, is there anything wrong
:07:34. > :07:42.with that? New kind of summed it up there. But
:07:42. > :07:47.do you think in your experience that the more lenient approach works?
:07:47. > :07:50.is a strange word, lenient. You can have a cup of -- what works for
:07:50. > :07:54.those kids would not necessarily work for others who might want a
:07:54. > :08:00.more structured approach. Essentially, it is what works in the
:08:00. > :08:05.first place. How can we save these kids? So, our permanent exclusions
:08:05. > :08:09.increasing or decreasing in the UK? They are decreasing because
:08:09. > :08:14.headteachers do not want it on the school record. And they are also
:08:14. > :08:18.aware of how much it can affect a child going forward. If a child is
:08:18. > :08:23.excluded, it affects their future career. Halfway house seem to be the
:08:23. > :08:30.way ahead, where kids are taken on board and they try to turn their
:08:30. > :08:34.lives around. Chris, you were thrown out of school. I was thrown out
:08:34. > :08:39.having long hair in the 60s. I was probably acting up a little. It was
:08:39. > :08:44.in the middle of my junior year in high school and the dean of the
:08:44. > :08:48.school was severe. He got a couple of us in his office and he said, you
:08:48. > :08:55.are going to be crossing the street and your hair will flow in front of
:08:55. > :08:58.your face and you will get it by a car. That was his excuse. There were
:08:58. > :09:02.a lot of test cases for Civil Liberties and people were suing
:09:02. > :09:06.schools that they were thrown out of for having long hair. So within a
:09:06. > :09:16.week or two the school called me up and said, if you come back you will
:09:16. > :09:16.
:09:16. > :09:19.not have to take Jim. That enticed you back. I was happy to be out. I
:09:19. > :09:26.was not happy in the school public system and my mum found a cheap
:09:26. > :09:29.arrive at school. Thank you, Tony. We are going to talk about the
:09:29. > :09:35.blonde eat or shortly. As you have had so many hits, we thought
:09:35. > :09:45.everybody out there will be able to do a karaoke version. One way or
:09:45. > :10:00.
:10:00. > :10:09.# I know a girl from a lonely Street # Cold as ice cream but still as
:10:09. > :10:11.sweet. # # Soon turned out, had a Heart Of
:10:11. > :10:21.Glass # Seemed like the real thing, only
:10:21. > :10:38.
:10:38. > :10:48.to find. # # Beautiful to night. #
:10:48. > :10:55.
:10:55. > :11:02.# Maria, you've got to see her. # # The tide is high, but I'm holding
:11:02. > :11:12.# I'm going to be your number one # Number one
:11:12. > :11:22.
:11:22. > :11:32.# Number one. # # Call me
:11:32. > :11:40.
:11:40. > :11:50.I did not think we would get the Caterpillar. I liked the
:11:50. > :11:55.
:11:55. > :12:01.glassmakers. I am definitely calling him. I am speechless.The man at the
:12:01. > :12:07.glass factory had a pretty voice. have to thank the British public for
:12:07. > :12:11.their support over the years. they can come and see you on tour.
:12:11. > :12:18.You are starting in Nottingham and then it goes on to London. Will you
:12:18. > :12:24.be playing old stuff and new stuff? Yes. It is very exciting. It is a
:12:24. > :12:32.nice show and it is so much fun to have new material. We are still
:12:32. > :12:37.working it up. Some of the new tunes are more dance tunes. Do you think
:12:37. > :12:43.there might be an album of the back of the tour? It is dance oriented,
:12:43. > :12:46.if you want to call it that. Mick Jagger was saying it is strange when
:12:46. > :12:49.you play the old ones because everyone is singing along and then
:12:49. > :12:55.you introduce new stuff and it is tough to get through because people
:12:55. > :13:02.do not know the words. They love the music all the same. They sort of
:13:02. > :13:10.stop. I often wonder what it would be like to play satisfaction for 50
:13:10. > :13:19.years! You are saying thank you to the British public for their
:13:19. > :13:24.support. I mean it sincerely.In 1978 when you came over, you were
:13:24. > :13:31.completely mobbed. We have some amazing footage. How did it feel to
:13:31. > :13:37.get to the British Isles and realise how much the fans were into Blondie?
:13:37. > :13:41.Completely wonderful and surprisingly. I honestly had no way
:13:41. > :13:45.of knowing how to handle something like that. It was absolutely
:13:45. > :13:52.thrilling. It is what anybody who goes into the music business, or
:13:52. > :13:55.show business, wants to have happen. A dream come true. The lads in the
:13:55. > :14:01.glass factory did a wonderful condition of Heart Of Glass, but
:14:01. > :14:07.that tunes started in a different way. It was like rock the boat,
:14:07. > :14:15.baby, if you remember that song. It went through a feud transformations.
:14:15. > :14:20.It was a bit of reggae in there. thought we sounded like Kraftwerk.
:14:20. > :14:25.We were watching your fascinating documentary earlier, and lots has
:14:25. > :14:29.happened within the band. There have been rifts, drugs, problems, but you
:14:29. > :14:34.have remained friends, strong friends throughout the whole thing.
:14:34. > :14:42.What is the secret to your relationship? I don't know. I am an
:14:42. > :14:52.idiot. I didn't finish. I am an idiot and he is full. How often do
:14:52. > :14:53.
:14:53. > :14:58.you fight? We are very much on the same page. And you are godmother.
:14:58. > :15:08.What kind of a godmother she make vesture Mark she is OK. You would
:15:08. > :15:15.
:15:15. > :15:21.have to ask them. What did you think about One Direction's version of
:15:21. > :15:25.your song? I thought they did a good job, and it was all for a good cause
:15:25. > :15:33.as well. It had a good spirit about it, and it had humour. It was great.
:15:33. > :15:41.Are you going to do sarin on your tour? Yes, we are.What is your
:15:41. > :15:46.favourite, of all the ones that you do? Well, it would be the new stuff.
:15:46. > :15:56.I get more enthused about the new stuff. I guess the one which stands
:15:56. > :15:58.
:15:58. > :16:02.out for me, on many levels, is Rapture. Why is that? Well, we broke
:16:02. > :16:08.through, it was a real breakthrough for us musically, and in the world
:16:08. > :16:15.of music, so i think that was the one. I am very proud of that. And
:16:15. > :16:24.also, it is the first rap song that has its own music. At that time, it
:16:24. > :16:31.was all scratchy samples. . So, you are including that one in the tour?
:16:31. > :16:36.You do not know yet? Anyway... Ahead of Father's Day this Sunday, we want
:16:36. > :16:39.to know where you would find a perfect dad, one that does all of
:16:39. > :16:49.the housework, looks after the kids, and is a bit of a funky dancer
:16:49. > :16:52.as well. Mike Dilger has found him, and he lives in a stream near you.
:16:52. > :16:54.Right across the country, there is a new raft of fathers celebrating
:16:54. > :17:04.Father's Day. For the very first time, this year, i have become a dad
:17:04. > :17:08.myself. This is Zachary Ted, the apple of his parents live. But one
:17:08. > :17:11.thing i never realised was how much work it was being a dad. In the rest
:17:11. > :17:16.of the animal world, there are many hard-working fathers who protect
:17:16. > :17:22.their young, provide food and even carry the eggs around. But there is
:17:22. > :17:27.one on song animal does that, and much more. When i was a kid, i used
:17:27. > :17:34.to catch these tiddlers all of the time. Back in the day, i always knew
:17:34. > :17:40.their proper name, but what i did not know was that the males make
:17:40. > :17:43.absolutely brilliant fathers! They start with herring for fatherhood in
:17:43. > :17:49.the spring breeding season, when they turn from a muddy brown colour
:17:49. > :17:52.to a bright, vivid red, to warn off other males. Then, they start
:17:52. > :18:00.defending their bit stream. And i have just got a territorial male
:18:00. > :18:04.just down here, and we have got a special, underwater camera. We have
:18:04. > :18:11.put a splash of red tape, and hopefully, he might think it is a
:18:11. > :18:21.male trying to take over his patch. He should come over to investigate.
:18:21. > :18:22.
:18:22. > :18:25.He is coming! There we go. That's great! He is really territorial.
:18:25. > :18:31.They are particularly defensive because, within their home patch,
:18:31. > :18:34.these potential dads also build their own nests. Along a stream like
:18:34. > :18:43.this, there will be dozens, maybe even hundreds of territories, packed
:18:43. > :18:50.together, each containing a nest built by a father, which is really
:18:50. > :18:52.difficult to spot. At the University of Leicester, Dr Ian Brown has spent
:18:52. > :18:57.seven years studying sticklebacks and there are considerable skills.
:18:57. > :19:02.We are surrounded by them - what is it about this fish which fascinates
:19:02. > :19:05.you Anna Hann people think of nestbuilding animals, they think of
:19:06. > :19:11.birds and mammals, but in this case it is the male who does everything,
:19:11. > :19:16.and he started off by building a nest. It is the female swimming past
:19:16. > :19:23.which prompts the males into starting to build a nest. So,
:19:23. > :19:29.introducing a female, even in a jar, should trigger some nest action.
:19:29. > :19:39.There is definite interest. And here's heading down to finishes
:19:39. > :19:40.
:19:40. > :19:50.nest! They build from whatever is to hand, and stick the nest together
:19:50. > :19:50.
:19:50. > :19:53.with a trail of glue. Here, he has got a mixture of cotton thread and
:19:53. > :19:59.water weed. Absolutely amazing behaviour. In the wild, sticklebacks
:19:59. > :20:06.females have a lot of nest is to choose from, so, not only do the
:20:06. > :20:12.males need to be good builders, they also do an elaborate dance to show
:20:12. > :20:16.how fit and strong they are. A couple of tanks along, there is a
:20:16. > :20:18.dance about to happen. Oh, he is zigzagging like crazy! That is a
:20:18. > :20:23.classic courtship dance. This female is ready to lay, but there is no
:20:23. > :20:29.guarantee she will. Now, he is dancing and swimming back to the
:20:29. > :20:35.nest to show her where it is. is ready, she will go into the nest.
:20:35. > :20:43.She is pushing her way in. The idea here is that the male is stimulating
:20:43. > :20:49.the muscles in the female's body to release the eggs. And now, he should
:20:49. > :20:55.swim through and fertilise them. There he goes. We have just seen the
:20:55. > :21:01.whole cycle! That is brilliant. For the next ten days, the father will
:21:01. > :21:06.fan water over the eggs to keep them oxygenated, and defend the baby fish
:21:06. > :21:10.when they hatch. But that is not all. After those babies have
:21:10. > :21:13.hatched, he will build another nest and try and attract more females,
:21:13. > :21:20.and then, towards the end of the season, he has expended so much
:21:20. > :21:27.energy, he has not had time to feed, typically, he will die. And they are
:21:27. > :21:32.the supreme dads. And Mike, the new dad, is here. Because we have got
:21:32. > :21:38.Blondie on the show, you went in search of the most long animals you
:21:38. > :21:43.could find. Yes, we scoured the natural world in honour of these
:21:43. > :21:46.guest 's. We came up with these beautiful Peruvian long-haired
:21:46. > :21:54.beautiful Peruvian long-haired guinea pigs, belonging Aren't they
:21:54. > :21:59.amazing? They look like they are wearing to pays. We are going to
:21:59. > :22:02.find out which would be the perfect pet for the members of Blondie here.
:22:02. > :22:10.These ones are silky hands, so called because their plumage is
:22:11. > :22:17.thus. Chris told me beforehand, the most amazing thing about them is
:22:17. > :22:20.that if you part the feathers, they have blue skin underneath. They are
:22:20. > :22:27.the only breed of chicken which has five toes. I think they are rather
:22:27. > :22:33.like ours. I really wanted to touch him, but... ! Uncle how you feeling
:22:33. > :22:41.about these? These are really nice chickens. Actually, I think chickens
:22:41. > :22:46.are wonderful. You show these, don't you? Yes, he has got to have a
:22:47. > :22:56.really good image, and a nice, rounded body. The Crest has not got
:22:56. > :23:00.to be too big. Who have I got here, Harriet? That is Alaska. Guinea pig
:23:00. > :23:05.is a bizarre name, because they are not from Guinea, and they are not
:23:05. > :23:09.pigs. It was thought that they came from Diana, and it was a
:23:09. > :23:13.mispronunciation, but the other thought was that it was brought back
:23:13. > :23:17.from the Spanish from South America. They were wild rodents, if it
:23:18. > :23:22.really, and they were brought back via Guinea, in West Africa, which
:23:22. > :23:32.was the last port of call. So that is where the name came from. They
:23:32. > :23:37.
:23:37. > :23:41.were wrong on both counts. Next, Gyles Brandreth has the story of a
:23:41. > :23:46.Hollywood screenwriter who had to flee the United States and make his
:23:46. > :23:49.home in the UK. When it came to films like Bridge On The River Kwai
:23:49. > :23:55.and the guns of Neverland, their loss was definitely our game. In
:23:55. > :24:01.1973, filmmaker Carl Foreman was nominated for an Oscar for his
:24:01. > :24:06.screenplay of Young Winston, the story of Winston Churchill. It
:24:06. > :24:10.crystallised his status as part of the British film aristocracy. But
:24:10. > :24:15.Foreman's own story was as dramatic as his films. He was lauded as one
:24:15. > :24:20.of the greats of British cinema. But few knew that 20 years before, he
:24:20. > :24:26.had been exile from Hollywood and had his American passport revoked.
:24:26. > :24:30.During the 1940s and 1950s, America was in the grip of an anti-Communist
:24:30. > :24:35.witchhunt, led by Senator McCarthy. Suspected Communists faced the
:24:35. > :24:39.committee for un-American at energies, including leading names in
:24:39. > :24:44.Hollywood, like Carl Foreman. He had been a member of the Communist Party
:24:44. > :24:48.in his use, but he left in 1941. The committee wanted him to name other
:24:48. > :24:52.party members, but he refused, meaning that he was blacklisted in
:24:53. > :25:02.Hollywood, and his film career was over. At the time he was working on
:25:03. > :25:35.
:25:35. > :25:45.high noon, the powerful 1952 Western about a town marshal forced to face
:25:45. > :25:59.
:25:59. > :26:09.a gallon of killers alone. In a way, it was a portrayal of the turmoil in
:26:09. > :26:14.
:26:14. > :26:24.Carl Foreman's life at that moment. Terry Cooper is the marshal, going
:26:24. > :26:29.
:26:29. > :26:38.around the town trying to recruit deputies, and he goes to the church
:26:38. > :26:48.and discovers that the townspeople, whom he has been protecting, do not
:26:48. > :26:51.
:26:51. > :26:54.want to help him. It is a film about your friend is not standing by you.
:26:54. > :27:04.He saw it as a symbolic rejection of American values, throwing this thing
:27:04. > :27:05.
:27:05. > :27:11.in America, and Churchill basically said, my dear boy, do not worry
:27:11. > :27:14.about that. All I care about is whether he can do the job. Churchill
:27:14. > :27:24.expected to see the finished film in a matter of months. As Carl Foreman
:27:24. > :27:26.
:27:26. > :27:30.later revealed... I said, no, sir, I think it will be two or three
:27:30. > :27:36.years, not months. He said, nonsense, when we decided on opening
:27:36. > :27:43.a second front in Normandy, it did not take is that long. I said, yes,
:27:43. > :27:49.you had more money. From my father 's point of view, I think the film
:27:49. > :27:51.was a kind of love letter to England. His services to British
:27:52. > :27:55.cinema and him a CBE, rare for un-American. By the early 1960s, he
:27:55. > :28:00.was preparing to go home to Hollywood, where a chance encounter
:28:00. > :28:03.with John Wayne presented an opportunity for reconciliation.
:28:03. > :28:07.father took my sister and I and walked us over to his table, and
:28:07. > :28:11.John Wayne stood up and they shook hands. It was a sign that things
:28:11. > :28:16.were over. Should we be proud of giving a home to this exile
:28:16. > :28:20.American? I think we should, because if he had stayed in America, he
:28:20. > :28:27.would have been condemned to silence. Carl Foreman ended his days
:28:27. > :28:31.back in Hollywood. You died in 1964, aged 69. He was a unique American,
:28:31. > :28:39.who made some remarkably British films. What a quote that was from
:28:39. > :28:45.Churchill. And staying on the movie theme, they are making a film about
:28:45. > :28:50.your life, called CBGB, and Malin Ackerman, a young actress, is
:28:50. > :28:57.playing you. There she is. Have you spoken to her at all? Did they
:28:57. > :29:02.consult you? Oh, no. But I knew who she was, and I thought, she is
:29:02. > :29:08.great, she is to refit. She looks brilliant. I have seen her in other