:00:26. > :00:30.Hello and welcome to The One Show. Tonight we are joined by a
:00:30. > :00:34.journalistic superpower. He has met Nelson Mandela and he
:00:34. > :00:38.has hung out with Presidents and dictators.
:00:38. > :00:43.And if you watched Saturday-morning telly, you won't know him as Trevor
:00:43. > :00:48.McDonut. But he is better known as Sir
:00:48. > :00:54.Trevor Mark Bunn of. Sorry about that. We know which
:00:54. > :01:00.side we are on. Would you like a bite of yourself? I have never seen
:01:00. > :01:04.anything quite like this. We had some in the meeting and they were
:01:04. > :01:10.lovely people stop I'd take your word for it. The we have got a
:01:10. > :01:16.couple of napkins. It would seem invidious for me to eat myself. I'd
:01:16. > :01:21.better not go there. Her over the headlines last night was the demise
:01:21. > :01:26.of HMV. When did you remember buying a record and what do you
:01:26. > :01:30.think it Denmark I sympathise about their fate because it must have
:01:30. > :01:37.been about several years ago in Oxford Street, if there is one
:01:37. > :01:45.there still. But you do not these days, and it is rather sad. I feel
:01:45. > :01:50.sad about the demise of HMV. So do I, I was watching the news
:01:50. > :01:56.Downloading a couple of albums, so I felt of ball.
:01:56. > :02:01.It was probably Neil Diamond. shared that in common. It was
:02:01. > :02:05.probably a Neil Diamond record. Later on we will be talking to
:02:05. > :02:09.dance know about battleships and handbags.
:02:09. > :02:14.And Sir Trevor will be telling us about his new series where he
:02:14. > :02:19.visits a notorious American prison and meets one inmate who is serving
:02:19. > :02:23.a 170-year sentence. Over here we do things differently.
:02:23. > :02:27.Simon Boazman reports on a scheme which some say shows we are too
:02:27. > :02:33.soft on criminals. When Margaret's house was burgled
:02:33. > :02:37.she was left feeling vulnerable and angry. The true value of the things
:02:37. > :02:44.that had been stolen it really hit home when her daughter was killed
:02:44. > :02:48.in an accident. Certain things of hers were taken, her jewellery,
:02:48. > :02:53.things I wanted to look at her and see again and hold again.
:02:53. > :02:59.Especially the fact the laptop had been taken, with special
:02:59. > :03:05.photographs, celebrating her 18th, our last family holiday. This is
:03:05. > :03:11.the man who burgled Margaret's Howarth. He had been in and out of
:03:11. > :03:17.prison all his adult life. How do you justify it when you're taking
:03:17. > :03:21.personal things out of people's homes? For you do not have that
:03:21. > :03:27.thought pattern. You are not interested in other people's
:03:27. > :03:31.thoughts because you do not care for them, you are numb. They were
:03:31. > :03:36.offered the opportunity to meet up and discuss the burglary in a
:03:36. > :03:40.process called restorative justice. Both jumped at the chance. I got to
:03:40. > :03:46.the stage where I thought I needed to do something about it because I
:03:46. > :03:51.could not go on the way I was going. Hythe thought, what have I got to
:03:51. > :04:00.lose? For once it is going to be about me as a victim and the chance
:04:00. > :04:05.to ask questions. Did you everything about people?
:04:05. > :04:11.Their first meeting was at the prison three years ago and it was
:04:11. > :04:16.filmed and this is the footage of that first emotional encounter.
:04:16. > :04:23.are telling me you took things from our house and you cannot really
:04:23. > :04:31.remember much about it? I do not remember specific things because it
:04:31. > :04:36.Kinder clouds your mind. It seems a bit strange. Since the meeting they
:04:36. > :04:43.have remained in regular contact. Today Ian has been invited back to
:04:43. > :04:49.the house he burgled. Hello, Margaret. Come in. The restorative
:04:49. > :04:54.justice meeting had a huge impact on both parties. Margaret began to
:04:54. > :05:02.understand Ian's troubled life and he made a promise to turn back his
:05:02. > :05:12.life on drugs and crime and it is a promise he has kept. You face up to
:05:12. > :05:13.
:05:13. > :05:20.what you have done. It is what I need it. Why do you want to help a
:05:20. > :05:26.man who caused you so much pain? thought if there is any way we can
:05:26. > :05:34.give you the chance to get some structure back into your life and
:05:34. > :05:38.to develop a future... Is positive. Ian and Margaret watched the
:05:38. > :05:44.footage separately, but this is the first time they have seen it
:05:44. > :05:51.together and it is Derek up powerful memories. I did not want
:05:51. > :05:55.the burglar to come back again. can understand your feelings now. I
:05:55. > :06:03.have decided to turn my life around and deal with any problems I have
:06:03. > :06:09.got. I could not apologise more. When he apologised, did that mean
:06:09. > :06:19.anything? It started to because I could see he was thinking and he
:06:19. > :06:22.was looking at me and he was being a person with feelings. Has this
:06:22. > :06:32.restorative justice being a big motivator in keeping your eye to
:06:32. > :06:38.prison? And why? It made me see what I had done wrong. I tried to
:06:38. > :06:42.change my life around and get out of the situation I was end.
:06:42. > :06:47.Government says reoffending crops by 14% by those criminals taking
:06:47. > :06:53.part in the programme. The money spent on it is more than covered by
:06:53. > :06:57.the savings in court costs, policing and prisons. Margaret and
:06:57. > :07:02.Ian say in the future they will stay in contact and work together
:07:02. > :07:08.at to use restorative justice in their community. It gave me a kick
:07:08. > :07:16.I needed. When you come through the door at night in the dark, how do
:07:16. > :07:22.you feel now? I feel very much at Tees, very secure. This this your
:07:22. > :07:29.home again? Yes, definitely. It is an interesting concept. What are
:07:29. > :07:34.your views on the idea? If it works for the victims, it is fine. We
:07:34. > :07:40.keep hearing about the importance up at in the MP -- focuses on the
:07:40. > :07:44.perpetrators, but how are the victims affected? If that kind of
:07:44. > :07:49.restorative action works for them, then that is good. I am not too
:07:49. > :07:53.sure it is the kind of thing I would want to contemplate, it is
:07:53. > :07:59.beyond what I can. But if the victims are happy and want to be
:07:59. > :08:03.part of it, I suppose it works. Archbishop Tutu talked about
:08:03. > :08:08.reconciliation after apartheid, and it is cleansing of the past. If
:08:08. > :08:12.that works, it is fine. This is a topic that has been at the
:08:12. > :08:17.forefront of your mind because you visited a maximum security prison
:08:17. > :08:23.in Indiana in your new documentary series Inside Death Row. How has
:08:23. > :08:28.this affected you? In one way I cannot get some of these people I
:08:28. > :08:32.put my head, they stay with you for a long time. They are such strong
:08:32. > :08:37.characters and they are also so articulate. They talk about their
:08:37. > :08:41.lives and what drove them to the state they are in so well. But the
:08:41. > :08:47.other reason I suspect Wyke they stay with you is because you fix
:08:47. > :08:52.them in your mind at a time and they are there. 20 months ago, you
:08:52. > :08:56.cannot remember what you did two weeks ago. I know what they were up
:08:56. > :09:04.to, where they were and where they are going to be for the next five
:09:04. > :09:09.or 10, or in the case of one of them, 170 years. It is almost an
:09:09. > :09:13.obscene use of language to give somebody a sentence for her 170
:09:13. > :09:19.years. The guy who got that sentence was in a steel cage and he
:09:19. > :09:26.had come there at the age of 15, having been found guilty of a
:09:26. > :09:32.double murder aged 13. This is Sanford. That is way out for my
:09:32. > :09:36.experience, I have never met anybody like that. I felt quite sad
:09:36. > :09:42.for him because he seemed overwhelmed because he was going to
:09:42. > :09:47.be there all his life, but in the next clip we can see how he escapes
:09:47. > :09:54.in his mind. It's and he is very handsome and in his cell he is
:09:54. > :10:00.talking about the books on his wall, eugenics and metaphysics, and he is
:10:00. > :10:10.quite extraordinary. Yet Sandford will end his life there. We can see
:10:10. > :10:16.him now. These are the parameters of your existence. Absolutely.
:10:16. > :10:23.These four walls. It is a pretty isolated place. If you see it as
:10:23. > :10:26.such. It is isolated only to the extent you think it is. Those books
:10:26. > :10:33.allow for Great Escape and to be able to leave the confines of the
:10:33. > :10:38.world. You have kept up that relationship. I have asked the
:10:38. > :10:44.Prison to send him some books. You are not allowed to send books to
:10:44. > :10:51.prisoners, but if you send them to us, we will send them to him. That
:10:51. > :10:57.is nice. Some books about England and Dickens. Dickens would take his
:10:57. > :11:00.mind far away. It seems like they really want to talk to you. They
:11:00. > :11:07.are gushing out a lot of their stories and horrific things they
:11:07. > :11:13.are telling us. How vulnerable did you feel? There were times when I
:11:13. > :11:17.thought I was mad. One of those times was sitting on the bed of a
:11:18. > :11:22.man on death row who had committed the most appalling murders. He had
:11:22. > :11:26.gone into somebody's house on the pretence of wanting to use the
:11:26. > :11:32.telephone and ended up killing him in the most horrible way. I thought
:11:32. > :11:36.to myself as I sat there in his cell, on his bed, I thought, what
:11:36. > :11:43.am are doing here? If only my mother could see me now, she would
:11:43. > :11:46.think, I get a life. But the other thing about it is you became quite
:11:46. > :11:51.entranced and drawn into this extraordinary, bizarre story about
:11:51. > :11:59.these people and what they do. a bizarre world as well because it
:11:59. > :12:07.is like its own little planet. This is the barber shop. All the barbers
:12:07. > :12:11.are convicts. Rake is serving three life sentences, plus 10 years.
:12:11. > :12:16.Walking into this place is one of the most extraordinary experiences
:12:16. > :12:23.I have had for a long time. He would not have thought this was a
:12:23. > :12:27.barber shop in a maximum-security prison. We want to keep its unique
:12:27. > :12:33.because we like the atmosphere and we like being able to come in here
:12:33. > :12:37.and to relax. If you come into the barber shop and you are a gang
:12:37. > :12:45.member, would you start trouble with a guy who is standing here
:12:45. > :12:52.like this? No, I would not. They said in 37 years nobody had been
:12:52. > :12:57.hurt. What shocked me about that is the appearance of normalcy. That
:12:57. > :13:03.looks like a hairdressing shop in any town. They kept trying to make
:13:03. > :13:08.it that way because in a way it was an escape. Sanford used his books
:13:08. > :13:14.as an escape. For people who went there, they got privileges to have
:13:14. > :13:21.their hair cut and it was is sought after place to work. Both episodes
:13:21. > :13:24.are incredible. Inside Death Row starts on ITV won this Thursday at
:13:24. > :13:28.9pm. Four decommissions Royal Navy ships
:13:28. > :13:33.could be heading for the scrapyard or a watery grave after being put
:13:33. > :13:37.up for sale this week. While there are currently rusting
:13:37. > :13:47.away in's harbour, John Sergeant has better news on the future of
:13:47. > :13:49.
:13:49. > :13:52.Her I'm aboard a very special ship that has fallen into disrepair. Now
:13:52. > :13:58.�1 million will be spent to bring it back to life and remind us of
:13:58. > :14:02.one of the greatest moments in the history of the Royal Navy. HMS
:14:02. > :14:07.Caroline is the only surviving British vessel from the First World
:14:07. > :14:11.War. Caroline now lies peacefully in the Belfast docks, but in 1916
:14:11. > :14:16.it took part in the most significant naval battle of the
:14:16. > :14:22.First World War, the Battle of Jutland. A naval historian is in no
:14:22. > :14:26.doubt about the ship's importance. Tell us about the Battle of Jutland.
:14:26. > :14:31.It was about blockading Germany and eventually they have to send out
:14:31. > :14:35.their fleet to block the blockade - - beat the blockade. We lost more
:14:35. > :14:40.men and more ships, but the Germans ran away and stayed away. One of
:14:40. > :14:50.the key battle stations was below deck. The emergency steering
:14:50. > :14:50.
:14:50. > :14:55.position, fully manned. A Shell has hit the bridge. They can't see
:14:55. > :15:00.anything while the battle is raging. They are down here, they will only
:15:00. > :15:05.be able to hear the battle. They are right down here in the bowels
:15:05. > :15:10.of the ship, not in a good place to be. This is an account from one of
:15:10. > :15:14.the seamen on board the next morning. The sea was littered with
:15:14. > :15:24.all kinds of ship's fittings and other things too ghastly to write
:15:24. > :15:24.
:15:24. > :15:30.about. So ended the most awful see fight in the history of the world.
:15:30. > :15:34.After the trauma of the First World War, HMS Caroline was soon docked
:15:34. > :15:39.here and until recently remained as a training ship for the Royal Navy.
:15:39. > :15:43.She did have a more exciting time in the Second World War. She became
:15:43. > :15:50.for a base for convoy protection. All of the convoy escorts working
:15:50. > :15:55.out of Belfast across the Atlantic were based around HMS Caroline.
:15:55. > :16:00.This vessel has huge significance for Belfast. Historically it is an
:16:00. > :16:03.important vessel and for us in generating the interest around our
:16:03. > :16:09.own maritime theme, it is usually important. But it has been hard
:16:09. > :16:13.work just keeping this ship afloat. The ships are electrician, Billy
:16:13. > :16:18.Hughes, has spent most of his life working on Caroline like his father
:16:18. > :16:23.before him. This is the place for the turbines. Some of the gaskets
:16:23. > :16:29.gave way and there was a flood. We had to pump it out. If it wasn't
:16:29. > :16:34.for your action, it would have gone down. Yes. It probably would have
:16:34. > :16:42.sunk. Our plan is to open the ship in time for the anniversary of the
:16:42. > :16:49.Battle of Jutland in 2016. �1 million has been spent already, we
:16:49. > :16:54.need another Oct �11 million. To walk on her DEC and to be able to
:16:54. > :16:58.go onto the bridge and walk around the spaces and see the engine rooms,
:16:58. > :17:03.fantastic. For a few years ago there was a real danger that this
:17:03. > :17:07.great ship would be sold off for scrap. Now it shouldn't be long
:17:07. > :17:15.before HMS Caroline becomes one of the most famous historic ships in
:17:15. > :17:19.the world. Dan is here to talk more history.
:17:19. > :17:24.The Germans spun around in the Battle of Jutland, but they then
:17:24. > :17:28.left. Can the Brits claimed that was a victory? In the opening phase
:17:28. > :17:33.of the battle, the German scored some deadly hits. They blew up
:17:33. > :17:38.Queen Mary, 1,200 people killed in an instant. It is one of the most
:17:38. > :17:43.terrible images of World War One. But then the British almost lured
:17:43. > :17:47.them into a trap and does the sun went down, they pounded the German
:17:47. > :17:52.fleet so violently that the Germans ran back to base and never came out
:17:52. > :17:57.so meaningfully again. They did not want to try that again and the
:17:58. > :18:01.North Sea was controlled by the Brits since then. We will take
:18:01. > :18:06.victory! You brought in some artifacts there will be displayed
:18:06. > :18:13.on the ship when it has opened as a museum that tell the human story.
:18:13. > :18:19.We will start with a sparkling back. It is such a wonderful litem. The
:18:19. > :18:24.ship is the steel and fabric of the ship. This was sown by patriotic
:18:24. > :18:31.women who wanted to raise money for the widows of the lost men. It has
:18:31. > :18:36.patriotic slogans on it. Then you have this telescope that was used
:18:36. > :18:43.by Lieutenant Commander on board the Caroline Flint. Caroline did
:18:43. > :18:50.have an exciting time. She was almost hit a. That telescope might
:18:50. > :18:55.have been on the Caroline during the battle. These letters are a
:18:55. > :19:02.reminder of the extraordinary human cost of these battles. This was an
:19:02. > :19:07.able seaman called Lieutenant Leonard Gordon Gulvin. He was
:19:07. > :19:12.caught -- killed on the Black Prince. A similar ship to the
:19:12. > :19:16.Caroline. Killed on May 31st. Some of the Admiralty letters and things
:19:17. > :19:21.to the family. It is still quite recent, we still have this
:19:21. > :19:29.bureaucracy attached to the death of these people. The idea is to
:19:29. > :19:35.restore Caroline by 2016. What other plans for next year, 2014, to
:19:35. > :19:40.commemorate World War One? A very exciting time. A big series with
:19:40. > :19:47.Jeremy Paxman on BBC One. Dramas, documentaries. Fe Imperial War
:19:47. > :19:50.Museum has been given �35 million by the government to redo its First
:19:50. > :19:54.World War collection. A lot of community led stuff up and down the
:19:54. > :20:03.country. I was in Blackburn last night talking about people there
:20:03. > :20:08.were killed. A big anniversary in 2016, of the Battle of the Somme.
:20:08. > :20:16.We love anniversaries. Your be involved, Trevor! I didn't report
:20:16. > :20:24.on that one! Thank you. Good luck with your new show on 9pm, BBC Two
:20:24. > :20:29.tonight. History of railways. yourself home! For 30 years ago,
:20:29. > :20:33.viewers were introduced to an overly cheerful presenter, bright
:20:33. > :20:43.set and constant stream of seemingly random studio items.
:20:43. > :20:43.
:20:43. > :20:50.Per for the 1980s there wasn't much of an appetite for breakfast TV,
:20:50. > :20:55.with audiences preferring to listen than watch. All that changed when
:20:55. > :20:59.ITV was given the go-ahead to produce early morning news. Several
:20:59. > :21:04.companies raced to bid for the franchise, but would anybody be
:21:04. > :21:09.watching? TV-am would base themselves that their students in
:21:09. > :21:13.Camden Lock and emerge victorious, but the BBC wasn't going to let the
:21:13. > :21:17.slot go unchallenged and quickly announced that they would also in
:21:17. > :21:24.every schedule breakfast television. Soon the race was on to see who
:21:24. > :21:28.would serve up TV a breakfast first. TV-am had spent three years
:21:28. > :21:34.planning it breakfast menu, with the launch date scheduled for
:21:34. > :21:40.February 1983. But the BBC beat them to the punch with Frank
:21:40. > :21:44.Bough's historic introduction. Monday, 17th January, 1983. You are
:21:44. > :21:49.watching the first edition of breakfast-time. He Nick Ross was
:21:49. > :21:53.one of the original line-up. think it was a spoiler. The BBC saw
:21:53. > :21:58.a vacuum and they needed to fill it, they needed to get there before ITV
:21:58. > :22:04.if they could. A lot of people were rooting against the BBC. Two weeks
:22:04. > :22:09.later at TV-am followed the BBC to air with Good morning Britain.
:22:09. > :22:15.Hello, good morning and welcome. Sir David Frost was among the heavy
:22:15. > :22:19.weight TV-am team dubbed the famous five. This was serious morning News
:22:20. > :22:25.and they had a mission to explain. Basically the attempt to do more
:22:25. > :22:34.than just parrot news headlines, but to explain the story behind the
:22:34. > :22:41.headlines. The reviews all said, resoundingly, Vught undoubtedly TV-
:22:41. > :22:48.am would undoubtedly defeat at the BBC. But the reviewers were wrong.
:22:48. > :22:53.On the other side, the BBC had introduced a lighter approach.
:22:53. > :22:57.cardboard cut-out! Stuffy news reporting in suits had been
:22:57. > :23:01.replaced by jazzy jumpers, a set designed to look like your living
:23:01. > :23:06.room and in informality never before seen at the corporation. But
:23:06. > :23:10.behind the scenes there were reservations. We thought dignity
:23:10. > :23:14.and authority were everything and that you would lose that authority
:23:14. > :23:18.if you were informal. The producer of the show just have the opposite
:23:18. > :23:23.idea. He said you had to connect with the audience. We had all sorts
:23:23. > :23:27.of arguments, particularly when I heard there would be an astrologer
:23:27. > :23:31.on the show. I nearly threw my toys out of the pram. But I was
:23:31. > :23:35.converted, it just worked. success was reflected in the
:23:35. > :23:41.ratings, with an average 1.6 million watching the BBC while TV-
:23:41. > :23:45.am could only muster half of that in its first week. Within just two
:23:45. > :23:50.months, the chief executive was forced to resign. Two of the famous
:23:50. > :23:54.five, and a Ford and Angela Rippon, were let go and as the advertisers
:23:54. > :23:59.deserted, the station lurched towards bankruptcy. To save the
:23:59. > :24:03.sinking ship a new boss, Greg Dyke, was brought in. I'd never seen so
:24:03. > :24:08.many people crying in the office, it was that sort of place. We just
:24:08. > :24:12.set about building a new show. There was no point going for the
:24:12. > :24:18.intellectual audience TV-am had said they would go for. You had to
:24:18. > :24:21.go for housewives and kids. TV am tried at a more family-friendly
:24:21. > :24:28.presenting team including Anne Diamond and Nick Owen, but they had
:24:28. > :24:32.another secret weapon. We put on Roland Rat for half-term and there
:24:32. > :24:38.was a jump in the ratings. We said why don't we do this during the
:24:38. > :24:42.summer? Six weeks, we went from way behind to overtaking the BBC.
:24:42. > :24:46.Roland Rat and the new format took the audience is to 1.8 million and
:24:46. > :24:51.with the increased advertising revenue, TV-am was back in the game.
:24:51. > :24:55.Early morning TV was firmly established on both channels. The
:24:55. > :25:00.risk that was breakfast TV paid off and those early pioneers changed
:25:00. > :25:06.how we watch TV and paved the way for morning television as we know
:25:06. > :25:14.it today. A very happy 30th birthday. Angela
:25:14. > :25:18.Rippon is joining us. I can't believe it was 30 years ago! That
:25:18. > :25:23.is the most extraordinary think that it was 30 years ago. Did you
:25:23. > :25:30.get an invite to the 30th birthday party of ITV... Will there be one?
:25:30. > :25:36.I don't know. I might pop of yacht champagne cork. I don't know that I
:25:36. > :25:40.shall be invited. TV-am was three years in the planning. Yes. Can you
:25:40. > :25:46.describe the moment that you heard the BBC would come out with a
:25:46. > :25:50.Breakfast Show and be on air before TV-am? For we were furious! We were
:25:50. > :25:56.given the contract to go on air and be the first. For whatever reason,
:25:57. > :26:01.and I still don't know why, the ITC decided that we should be delayed
:26:01. > :26:07.by year. The BBC naturally took advantage. Parfait came out two
:26:07. > :26:13.weeks before us. -- they came out. It was a terrific time because
:26:13. > :26:18.there wasn't breakfast television or daytime television. Although TV-
:26:18. > :26:22.am got it so wrong in the early days and the BBC got it so right,
:26:22. > :26:25.our mission to explain this idea that we should set the news agenda
:26:25. > :26:30.for the day before we sent everybody off to work was nonsense.
:26:30. > :26:36.What you wanted was nice and gentle, the sort of stuff you have now. We
:26:36. > :26:42.got it wrong. But it was very exciting because we knew we were
:26:42. > :26:47.making television history, BBC and ITV, something entirely new that
:26:47. > :26:54.had never been done in Britain before. TV-am were finding their
:26:54. > :27:01.feet for a couple of months. They did eventually get it right.
:27:01. > :27:05.left and it got better! From finding your feet to finding the
:27:05. > :27:15.right knees. People often wonder if news readers wear pyjamas and
:27:15. > :27:15.
:27:15. > :27:18.slippers. We don't. I do remember once... You were doing the Royal
:27:18. > :27:23.Variety Performance and a heart attack -- had to come back to the
:27:23. > :27:26.TV news to me. Bob Monkhouse said, we're going back to Angela Rippon
:27:26. > :27:34.for the news, and he came back and said she hasn't got legs, they just
:27:34. > :27:44.roll around on castors behind the desk! A brilliant game now.
:27:44. > :27:45.
:27:45. > :27:55.Newsround. And name those knees. Any idea? And no idea. Angela?
:27:55. > :28:00.
:28:00. > :28:06.it an afford? -- an-hour fought. Yes! 1-0. Great-niece. Good Lord!
:28:06. > :28:14.This is clearly a man, we hope. is not taking care of his knees.
:28:14. > :28:21.Any thoughts? Not a clue. That's good! It could be anybody.
:28:21. > :28:31.surname that is very topical. son was on the show. Peter Snow.
:28:31. > :28:31.
:28:31. > :28:38.Nephew. It is indeed John Snow! must take better care of his knees.
:28:38. > :28:48.Finally, one for you, Angela. that a bloke again? This could be
:28:48. > :28:50.
:28:50. > :28:54.awkward. Up let's reveal. It's you! Thank you to both of you go for