0:00:15 > 0:00:22This programme contains very strong language.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:00:30 > 0:00:33Good evening, good evening, good evening, good evening,
0:00:33 > 0:00:35good evening, good evening, good evening, good evening,
0:00:35 > 0:00:39and welcome to QI for an episode which is all about Justice.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42Members of the jury, the just Brian Cox.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:00:46 > 0:00:49The judicious Rhys Darby.
0:00:49 > 0:00:53CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:00:53 > 0:00:56The judgmental Jason Manford.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:01:00 > 0:01:03And a jailbird, Alan Davies.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Well, in case I nod off during these proceedings,
0:01:13 > 0:01:16you all know how to catch my attention, it's with a buzzer.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18And Jason goes...
0:01:18 > 0:01:19HAMMER POUNDING
0:01:19 > 0:01:20Brian goes...
0:01:20 > 0:01:23'All rise.'
0:01:23 > 0:01:24Rhys goes...
0:01:24 > 0:01:27'Order! Order!'
0:01:27 > 0:01:28And Alan goes...
0:01:28 > 0:01:30GUILLOTINE
0:01:30 > 0:01:32LAUGHTER
0:01:32 > 0:01:35Excellent. So let's start laying down the law.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37Describe the rules...
0:01:37 > 0:01:39Oh, he's free! Escapology.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42I'll tell you what, being a copper back then,
0:01:42 > 0:01:45- when everyone dressed like that, was well easy... - It was, wasn't it, really.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47I think it might be him, I might be that guy.
0:01:47 > 0:01:51- I'm going to take this off, cos the bridge of my nose is rubbing. - Oh, you don't want that.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53Oh, my God, it's Alan Davies!
0:01:53 > 0:01:54Hello, everyone.
0:01:54 > 0:01:59Noel Coward was at a rehearsal when one of the actors was picking his nose, he thought, secretly,
0:01:59 > 0:02:02and Noel shouted, "Wave when you get to the bridge!"
0:02:02 > 0:02:04LAUGHTER
0:02:04 > 0:02:08Anyway, describe the rules on a pirate ship.
0:02:08 > 0:02:10Rules?
0:02:10 > 0:02:13Yeah. But what sort of rules would they have?
0:02:13 > 0:02:15- Obviously, they've got a captain. - Yes.- So he's in charge.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18So I imagine he gets most of the gold and whatever they find.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23Well, oddly enough, no. They had two senior officers - the captain and the quartermaster.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26And the captain could be vetoed by the quartermaster
0:02:26 > 0:02:31- on all matters except battle, except rules of engagement, when fighting. - Oh, OK.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33And they had strong laws.
0:02:33 > 0:02:37And the quartermaster was, he was about how much they divvied out,
0:02:37 > 0:02:39including he decided how much the captain got.
0:02:39 > 0:02:41The captain had no special quarters,
0:02:41 > 0:02:43he didn't have a, you know, wonderful room,
0:02:43 > 0:02:44such as you imagine in movies.
0:02:44 > 0:02:49So it's not exactly hierarchical, it's kind of a rule of two, the quartermaster and the captain.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Otherwise, it was more or less a democracy, in a strange sort of way.
0:02:52 > 0:02:53But with strict rules.
0:02:53 > 0:02:57For example, in Captain Bartholomew Roberts' ship, the Fortune,
0:02:57 > 0:02:59there was no gambling, it was like a boarding school -
0:02:59 > 0:03:03no smuggling girls into the dorm, no playing music on a Sunday.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06And lights out at eight o'clock sharp in the evening.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08- It's rubbish being a pirate.- I know.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11- It's not quite what you imagine is it.- Sack the captain, that's rubbish.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13- But also...- Where are you going to smuggle these girls from anyway?
0:03:13 > 0:03:15- That's true.- Mermaids.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19- If you rescue one from the sea... No, no, no, no.- There is a wonderful book that Vic Reeves mentioned.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21- He's an expert on pirates. - He's love a pirate.
0:03:21 > 0:03:23He loves pirates, and it's a book that both he and I had read,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26called Sodomy And The Piratical Tradition.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30- And it's a very well-known work. - I'm so sorry, Brian. - No, it is!
0:03:30 > 0:03:33- LAUGHTER - You thought we were quite highbrow and intellectual.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36It is a very serious work of history and very interesting,
0:03:36 > 0:03:38which goes into the way these things were run.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41But, obviously with the emphasis on the sodomy.
0:03:41 > 0:03:42But there was also...
0:03:42 > 0:03:45Were there rules surrounding that particular pursuit?
0:03:45 > 0:03:47There were rules, indeed there where, absolutely.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50Very strict rules. You couldn't just take whomever you please, no.
0:03:50 > 0:03:55- What were the rules of sodomy? - Not on Sundays. - LAUGHTER
0:03:55 > 0:03:59I, I... It's eye-wateringly complex.
0:03:59 > 0:04:03- LAUGHTER - You're too young and too innocent to know.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05- Honestly, really. - For future reference!
0:04:05 > 0:04:09Stick to small things like supernovas,
0:04:09 > 0:04:12this is really too explosive.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14"Eye-wateringly complex."
0:04:15 > 0:04:19When it came to women aboard, the articles of Captain George Lowther,
0:04:19 > 0:04:21who was a famous pirate of his day said,
0:04:21 > 0:04:23"If at any time you meet with a prudent woman,
0:04:23 > 0:04:26"that man that offers to meddle with her,
0:04:26 > 0:04:30"without her consent, shall suffer present death."
0:04:30 > 0:04:34So meddling with a prudent woman without her consent got you death.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37So they really were very strict with each other.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40- So meddling was rape, really? - Essentially, we're talking about rape.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43- That lost its meaning by the time Scooby Doo came on.- Exactly.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46LAUGHTER
0:04:47 > 0:04:52Why if you pesky kids hadn't meddled!
0:04:52 > 0:04:53Notorious gang rapists.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56LAUGHTER
0:04:56 > 0:04:59That's just terrible. I'm ashamed of you.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02Do they have pirates in New Zealand?
0:05:02 > 0:05:04We've been attacked by pirates on occasion.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07And you didn't have anyone transported to New Zealand, like Australia?
0:05:07 > 0:05:12- No, it was a destination of choice for those seeking adventure...- Yeah.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14..and death.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18- LAUGHTER - Nothing's changed.- Nothing much has changed, no, exactly.
0:05:18 > 0:05:24Why is the pirate's voice similar to the farmer's voice?
0:05:24 > 0:05:27Why, is there something, "Aarr, get off my land!"
0:05:27 > 0:05:29The same sort of...
0:05:29 > 0:05:31There's one man responsible, do you know who it is?
0:05:31 > 0:05:33- It'll be a film actor.- Yes.
0:05:33 > 0:05:34Oh, OK.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37- In Treasure Island? - He played in a great performance of Treasure Island,
0:05:37 > 0:05:39and, in fact, Tony Hancock, the great comedian,
0:05:39 > 0:05:42he first started out as an impersonator of this actor.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44- Laughton?- No, not quite as well-known as Laughton.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46In his own day, he was very, very well-known,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48but now, less well-known.
0:05:48 > 0:05:49Anybody?
0:05:49 > 0:05:51AUDIENCE: It was someone mentioned on QI before.
0:05:51 > 0:05:53Someone, we've mentioned it on QI before.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55Ah, hang on a minute, we're getting heckled.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57The chances of Alan remembering it are remote.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00Someone at the front is saying, "You've done this!"
0:06:00 > 0:06:01LAUGHTER
0:06:01 > 0:06:04- Who are these...?! - This was on Dave on Tuesday!
0:06:04 > 0:06:06LAUGHTER
0:06:06 > 0:06:08New facts! New facts!
0:06:08 > 0:06:11- Well, it was Robert Newton anyway, the actor.- Robert Newton.
0:06:11 > 0:06:13GUILLOTINE
0:06:13 > 0:06:14- Thank you, yes.- Robert Newton.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18Robert Newton is the right answer, but it doesn't count cos we've had it before.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20David Prowse almost did that, didn't he, to Darth Vader.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23- He had a West Country accent, didn't he?- Yes, he did.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25- And he thought that it would be used, didn't he?- Yes.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28With his West Country accent, it got re-dubbed by James Earl Jones.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30IN A WEST COUNTRY ACCENT: "I am your father."
0:06:30 > 0:06:31LAUGHTER
0:06:31 > 0:06:35IN A WEST COUNTRY ACCENT: "Aarh, I'm your father and I'm your brother as well."
0:06:35 > 0:06:37LAUGHTER
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Sorry, for when I taught there. Joking!
0:06:44 > 0:06:47- See? - Darth Vader on a big tractor.
0:06:47 > 0:06:52Trundling down the corridors of the Death Star chewing a bit of straw.
0:06:52 > 0:06:53- IN A WEST COUNTRY ACCENT:- "Darth."
0:06:53 > 0:06:55- "Darth."- "Darth."
0:06:55 > 0:06:58- "Mr Darth to you." - "Mr Darth, Mr Darth."
0:06:58 > 0:07:00LAUGHTER
0:07:00 > 0:07:03It's, yeah, anyway. Um...
0:07:03 > 0:07:04LAUGHTER
0:07:04 > 0:07:07You know the skull and crossbone flag?
0:07:07 > 0:07:09- Yes.- Did they really have that? Cos that's giving it away.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13- We definitely covered that in the last series.- Really? I must have missed it.
0:07:13 > 0:07:14- Yeah, Alan will tell you all about it.- Go on.
0:07:14 > 0:07:16GUILLOTINE
0:07:16 > 0:07:17Jolly Roger.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20- Well, everyone knows it's called the Jolly Roger. - LAUGHTER
0:07:20 > 0:07:22Or is that a proposition?
0:07:22 > 0:07:26LAUGHTER
0:07:26 > 0:07:28- Maybe later, Alan.- It's been, it's been ten years, Stephen,
0:07:28 > 0:07:30and I've finally come round to it.
0:07:30 > 0:07:31LAUGHTER
0:07:31 > 0:07:35- Hurrah! At last. - It's time for a Jolly Roger.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38An eye-watering Jolly Roger.
0:07:38 > 0:07:43All right, now, what's the difference between a Californian prison and a medieval dungeon?
0:07:43 > 0:07:47You can see we've very cunningly placed the Tower of London,
0:07:47 > 0:07:53which is a medieval dungeon, next to Alcatraz, which is, of course, a famous Californian prison.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57Is it anything to do with the fact that you can't get out?
0:07:57 > 0:08:00- Alcatraz is famous, isn't it, of being, like...- Of prison!
0:08:00 > 0:08:03- LAUGHTER No, not out of prison. - How do you get out of prison?
0:08:03 > 0:08:08If you're popped in the dungeon, you're given manacles like you had earlier,
0:08:08 > 0:08:10and you're given board and lodging, essentially,
0:08:10 > 0:08:13and we go on today about prisoners...
0:08:13 > 0:08:16"It's like a hotel, look at how much it costs the government."
0:08:16 > 0:08:20- They've made them work.- Not just made them work, they made them PAY.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24They had to pay for their manacles, they had to pay for their foot gyves,
0:08:24 > 0:08:28everything, they had to pay for their accommodation.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31- So they had jobs? - No, that was the awful thing.
0:08:31 > 0:08:34A lot of them, pretty obviously, were not very rich,
0:08:34 > 0:08:37so what happened was they usually then ended up in debtors' prison
0:08:37 > 0:08:41cos they couldn't afford to pay the fee.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46Is that a picture of the returns desk? Those are a nightmare.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48- Really hurt. - When they closed the Fleet Prison in the '40s,
0:08:48 > 0:08:51they discovered some people had been there 40 years for what was
0:08:51 > 0:08:54a small debt they couldn't pay. Anyway, the point is,
0:08:54 > 0:08:58medieval dungeons, you had to pay your fee, and in California,
0:08:58 > 0:09:01at least in Riverside County, they have reintroduced such a system.
0:09:01 > 0:09:06- Its county jail now charges inmates 140 a day to be in jail.- Wow!
0:09:06 > 0:09:10- That's more than, like, a Premier Inn.- It's more than a Premier Inn.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12That's more than Lenny Henry pays to stay in hotels.
0:09:12 > 0:09:16So that is quite a lot of money. Yes.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18Then again, there's no table tennis at Premier Inn.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21- You got to weigh it up, haven't you?- It's true.
0:09:21 > 0:09:25Pamela Walls of the council, noted it may prove hard to collect
0:09:25 > 0:09:27reimbursements because "those defendants who are convicted
0:09:27 > 0:09:30"of crimes and incarcerated typically have limited funds."
0:09:30 > 0:09:32What a system!
0:09:32 > 0:09:35The supervisor, Jeff Stone, he thinks these are very challenging economic times
0:09:35 > 0:09:40and it could be a great source of revenue, could return three to five million dollars a year.
0:09:40 > 0:09:45But, unlike in Britain where you still had to pay even if you were innocent,
0:09:45 > 0:09:49at least in California if you turn out not to have been guilty, you get your money back.
0:09:49 > 0:09:50- Oh, do you?- Yeah.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53But, like, where are these people getting their money from?
0:09:53 > 0:09:58From crime, isn't it? So all it's doing is encouraging them to rob more stuff.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02"I'm going into prison, right, I'd better rob a load of stuff, it could cost me a fortune."
0:10:02 > 0:10:06"They're just about to catch me, I'd better rush into this shop and take the till."
0:10:06 > 0:10:08They can work once they are in prison, though, can't they?
0:10:08 > 0:10:11- From in prison.- Indeed, in most prisons prisoners work.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14- When I was in prison I worked. - Set up a little lemonade stand or something
0:10:14 > 0:10:16in the basketball court.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19I had to paint soldiers when I was in prison. I was in prison when I was 18.
0:10:19 > 0:10:24- Toy ones?- They were little toy ones, it was quite, sort of, relaxing work.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28Then I was put on the polishing the corridor duty which was not so pleasant.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31- When we were you in prison? I didn't know.- Did you not know?
0:10:31 > 0:10:34- Oh, I have a chequered past.- Is this a can of worms. - It was four years ago now.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36LAUGHTER
0:10:36 > 0:10:39We've moved on, Brian. We've moved on.
0:10:39 > 0:10:41Many people think I should still be.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44You go through an institution for several years and you come out in debt?
0:10:44 > 0:10:49- Rather like being a student. - Yes, exactly. Very well put.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52Except you learn probably a lot more in prison than you would...
0:10:52 > 0:10:54LAUGHTER
0:10:54 > 0:10:56- You learn a trade. - You come out with a trade.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59Useful trade. Bouncing. You learn how to be a bouncer.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01Don't take this question personally, Alan,
0:11:01 > 0:11:04- I didn't write this question. All right?- OK.- OK.
0:11:04 > 0:11:09Now, what sort of person would say that Alan has a very small penis?
0:11:09 > 0:11:12LAUGHTER
0:11:12 > 0:11:13I'm sorry.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15My wife.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17No! No.
0:11:17 > 0:11:18And this is a legal question?
0:11:18 > 0:11:21- It is very much a legal question, yes.- Oh, OK.
0:11:21 > 0:11:25I'll tell you the world we're in, we're in the world of defamation, right?
0:11:25 > 0:11:27Let's say I was to write a novel
0:11:27 > 0:11:31about someone who presented a quiz show called KI,
0:11:31 > 0:11:33who was called Simon Dry.
0:11:33 > 0:11:36And he had a regular sidekick
0:11:36 > 0:11:40with curly hair who was called Andrew Devons,
0:11:40 > 0:11:42and had a very small penis.
0:11:42 > 0:11:47The idea is that he'll never sue
0:11:47 > 0:11:50cos he'll never say this is obviously based on me.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52Cos no-one will say, "It's obviously based on me,
0:11:52 > 0:11:55"because my name's like that and I've got a small... Oh, hang on."
0:11:55 > 0:11:56LAUGHTER
0:11:56 > 0:12:00- Oh, I see.- So that's the idea, is that when you want to slander somebody,
0:12:00 > 0:12:03you put in certain things that they would never admit to.
0:12:03 > 0:12:05They'd be too embarrassed to say that it's like them.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08There was a writer who was snubbed by Martin Amis,
0:12:08 > 0:12:11the great novelist, that's Martin Amis, there.
0:12:11 > 0:12:15Peter James was snubbed by him and he got his own back by creating a character
0:12:15 > 0:12:20called Amis Smallbone, whose manhood is compared to a stubby pencil.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24- And presumably Martin Amis has not sued.- Was it Martin Amis...?
0:12:24 > 0:12:27Who was it wrote about Norman Mailer and put a little, sort of,
0:12:27 > 0:12:33to the appendix, to the index, because he knew that Norman would always look,
0:12:33 > 0:12:36- Norman Mailer, and it just said, "Hi, Norm."- That's right.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40It's a bit like the Jewish joke, isn't it, about will being read out.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43"To my brother-in-law, Louis, who always wanted
0:12:43 > 0:12:45"to be mentioned in my will - hello, Louis!"
0:12:45 > 0:12:49LAUGHTER
0:12:50 > 0:12:53Why do we get away with that, as stand-up comedians,
0:12:53 > 0:12:55when someone heckles you and you have a go back
0:12:55 > 0:12:57and you say something in front of a room, you know...
0:12:57 > 0:13:00Well, it's a kind of understood contract
0:13:00 > 0:13:02between an audience and a comedian,
0:13:02 > 0:13:03that someone heckles and you go,
0:13:03 > 0:13:05"If I want any shit from you, I'll squeeze your head,"
0:13:05 > 0:13:09- or whatever, you know. Some story...- What was that?
0:13:09 > 0:13:11LAUGHTER
0:13:14 > 0:13:15So...
0:13:15 > 0:13:17LAUGHTER
0:13:17 > 0:13:21What else would you say? What other things?
0:13:21 > 0:13:24- Just one example.- I'm not going to give away my best heckler remarks.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27But what I mean is, if you made a joke heckle,
0:13:27 > 0:13:29- that's not defamatory.- OK. - I mean, that's the point.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31So, tit for tat doesn't stand up in court, does it?
0:13:31 > 0:13:34- No, I don't think so, exactly. - He started it.
0:13:34 > 0:13:36- Yeah, exactly. Exactly. - LAUGHTER
0:13:36 > 0:13:38But there are various defences.
0:13:38 > 0:13:43And in the case, which is an obviously untrue one, of Alan's small penis, for example,
0:13:43 > 0:13:45- one defence is the truth... - LAUGHTER
0:13:45 > 0:13:47..that the person does have a small penis,
0:13:47 > 0:13:49the other is parliamentary privilege.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53So a Member of Parliament can get up and say, "Alan Davies, Mr Speaker, has a small penis."
0:13:53 > 0:13:55And another Member of Parliament will get up and say,
0:13:55 > 0:13:57"He's a grower, not a shower!"
0:13:57 > 0:13:59LAUGHTER
0:13:59 > 0:14:02- Yeah, lovely. Yeah. - Point of order!
0:14:02 > 0:14:04The point is, you couldn't sue either of them,
0:14:04 > 0:14:08because under parliamentary privilege, there is no action that can be taken.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12There's increased privilege in peer reviewed scientific journals as well.
0:14:12 > 0:14:13Oh, that's privileged?
0:14:13 > 0:14:15Yes, it is, to some extent.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18So that if you are quite rude about a fellow scientist...
0:14:18 > 0:14:21Yeah. As long as it's in a peer reviewed journal,
0:14:21 > 0:14:24and it's not malicious, then you are allowed to do it.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26In the interests of freedom of debate.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29I could publish a paper reviewed by my peers about your penis
0:14:29 > 0:14:33and I would be relatively immune unless I was being malicious about it.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36Right. Now that's the phrase, of course, they use in American defamatory law,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38is "absence of malice".
0:14:38 > 0:14:42If you can prove absence of malice, then, you can say almost anything which allows...
0:14:42 > 0:14:44IN WOMAN'S VOICE: "I like your small penis."
0:14:44 > 0:14:45LAUGHTER
0:14:45 > 0:14:46And that's...
0:14:46 > 0:14:49It's very, very tiny, but it's wonderful.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Surely at some point sarcasm must come in.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54Well, there's that. If you can prove that, exactly.
0:14:54 > 0:14:56So the other one is good faith.
0:14:56 > 0:14:58I...I genuinely thought he had a small penis,
0:14:58 > 0:15:01I didn't mean it as defamatory, it was said in good faith.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03That's one thing. The other is opinion, which is -
0:15:03 > 0:15:07it was just my opinion. Compared to mine, it's small, OK. Right.
0:15:07 > 0:15:08LAUGHTER
0:15:08 > 0:15:11- It's a review. - It's a review, exactly.
0:15:11 > 0:15:12One star.
0:15:12 > 0:15:14The other is public, the public interest.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18The public has a right to know the size of Alan Davies's penis!
0:15:18 > 0:15:20LAUGHTER
0:15:20 > 0:15:22That might be a defence. The other is consent.
0:15:22 > 0:15:24He agreed with me about the size of his penis.
0:15:24 > 0:15:25LAUGHTER
0:15:25 > 0:15:27The other one is vulgar abuse.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30Surely, you didn't believe me when I said you had a small penis.
0:15:30 > 0:15:34I was just being rude to you. It was not, I was not defaming you.
0:15:34 > 0:15:39It would be like if I called you, you know, one of the unacceptable taboo swearwords,
0:15:39 > 0:15:42if I called you a motherfucker, you know, is not defaming you,
0:15:42 > 0:15:43whereas if I actually wrote down
0:15:43 > 0:15:49that I believed you actually incestuously did have sex with your mother, that would be defamatory.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51Do you see? So that's the difference.
0:15:51 > 0:15:52Not with a penis that size!
0:15:52 > 0:15:54LAUGHTER
0:15:54 > 0:15:56APPLAUSE
0:15:56 > 0:15:58That's just going all over the place.
0:15:58 > 0:16:00Can we see the evidence?
0:16:00 > 0:16:01LAUGHTER
0:16:01 > 0:16:03I just...it's all about evidence.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06- Not from there, it's minute. - Oh, no!
0:16:06 > 0:16:08- Just let me, let me...- No, no, now, Brian.- Let's settle this.
0:16:08 > 0:16:10No, but the first person at home going,
0:16:10 > 0:16:12"I should never have gone HD."
0:16:12 > 0:16:14LAUGHTER
0:16:15 > 0:16:18LAUGHTER
0:16:18 > 0:16:19Oh!
0:16:19 > 0:16:21LAUGHTER
0:16:21 > 0:16:22"Rise..."
0:16:22 > 0:16:25LAUGHTER
0:16:25 > 0:16:27APPLAUSE
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Very good.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35Thank you. Thank you. There is...
0:16:35 > 0:16:37LAUGHTER
0:16:37 > 0:16:39Is this on BBC Three these days?
0:16:39 > 0:16:40LAUGHTER
0:16:40 > 0:16:43I'm so sorry, Brian, I know.
0:16:43 > 0:16:44Anyway, that's the point.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47Saying a character isn't very well-hung could save you from a libel action.
0:16:47 > 0:16:52Which reality TV format was invented by Charlemagne's father?
0:16:52 > 0:16:55There's a picture of Charlemagne.
0:16:55 > 0:16:57- Big Brother?- It's not as well-known as Big Brother,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59I will give you a clue.
0:16:59 > 0:17:00Celebrity Big Brother?
0:17:00 > 0:17:01LAUGHTER
0:17:01 > 0:17:03On Channel 5.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05I'm a king, get me out of here?
0:17:05 > 0:17:10That would cover it. I can tell you it was presented by Dale Winton.
0:17:10 > 0:17:12Supermarket Sweep?
0:17:12 > 0:17:13No, I...
0:17:13 > 0:17:14LAUGHTER
0:17:14 > 0:17:15Total Wipe Out? What else has he done?
0:17:15 > 0:17:17Ah, you're pretty good, you're good on...
0:17:17 > 0:17:20- See, I know the workings of... - Big fan.- Yeah.
0:17:20 > 0:17:21- You're good on Dale.- Yeah. - Who was this?
0:17:21 > 0:17:24You probably don't know who Dale Winton is, do you?
0:17:24 > 0:17:25Uh... Chap or lady?
0:17:25 > 0:17:27LAUGHTER
0:17:27 > 0:17:29Audience, behave!
0:17:29 > 0:17:31LAUGHTER
0:17:33 > 0:17:37- He's a very charming gentleman, Mr Winton.- OK.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40Well turned out, crisply well turned out gentleman, very nice man.
0:17:40 > 0:17:41Who was his father...?
0:17:41 > 0:17:44Charlemagne's father is a good question.
0:17:44 > 0:17:47Unlikely to have heard of him, I'll be very impressed if you've heard of him.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49He was called Pepin the Short, unfortunately,
0:17:49 > 0:17:53but if you go back to, this is even pre-medieval, this is the dark ages,
0:17:53 > 0:17:56if you go back to that time, justice was meted out in all kinds of odd ways.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59And one of the odd ways it was a system of testing,
0:17:59 > 0:18:01which was called an ordeal.
0:18:01 > 0:18:02- An ordeal.- Ordeal.- Ordeal.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05- There were various kinds of ordeal. - So it's ordeal or no ordeal?
0:18:05 > 0:18:07LAUGHTER
0:18:07 > 0:18:08Hey, hey!
0:18:08 > 0:18:12If only... If only it were Noel Edmonds we were talking about,
0:18:12 > 0:18:14- then that would be... - He really is an ordeal.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16- Is he a lady or a man? - Is Noel Edmonds a...?
0:18:16 > 0:18:17LAUGHTER
0:18:17 > 0:18:22Well, ordeals. This particular ordeal involved...
0:18:22 > 0:18:24two people had a quarrel
0:18:24 > 0:18:29and they both had to make the shape of a cross, you see, and stay there.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32- I don't know what that's about. - What's happening there?!
0:18:32 > 0:18:33LAUGHTER
0:18:33 > 0:18:36Someone said he's got a small penis and they're just checking.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38Yeah. Are you a real doctor?
0:18:38 > 0:18:39LAUGHTER
0:18:39 > 0:18:43It was called Judicium Crucis, "the justice of the cross" in Latin.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46And, basically, it's a bit like those school punishments
0:18:46 > 0:18:48where they make you do that, if you ever did that.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50And the one who just dropped his hands first was wrong.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54And it happened to the Archbishop of Paris with the Abbot of St Denis,
0:18:54 > 0:18:56only they would use champions to do it for them,
0:18:56 > 0:18:59so they would say, "You on my behalf
0:18:59 > 0:19:01"stand for as long as you can in a cross,"
0:19:01 > 0:19:04and, in this case, the Archbishop of Paris won.
0:19:04 > 0:19:05It's a pity you have to nominate somebody,
0:19:05 > 0:19:09cos if you didn't, you could just pick on old people in those days, you know...
0:19:09 > 0:19:10LAUGHTER
0:19:10 > 0:19:12I won. It would be brilliant.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15You could have ordeal by tickling, they genuinely had all kinds of ordeals,
0:19:15 > 0:19:18ordeals by water, ordeals by fire and so on.
0:19:18 > 0:19:19But there is a car game...
0:19:19 > 0:19:22Is it that one where you have got to keep your hand on the car?
0:19:22 > 0:19:24- Ah!- Yeah, and then the last one wins it.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26- You see, you do know it. - Yes, I do.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28Dale Winton presented, I think on Channel 5...
0:19:28 > 0:19:29That rings a bell, yeah.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32..an endurance game show based on a Japanese original
0:19:32 > 0:19:34called Touch The Truck.
0:19:34 > 0:19:37That's Dale there, on top of it.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40I'd love to watch that. Just loads of people touching a car and then, that's it.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42- Yeah.- For an hour.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45For an hour? 81 hours. It's because...
0:19:45 > 0:19:47Well, I'd Sky Plus it and fast forward through it.
0:19:47 > 0:19:51Yeah, I was going to say. It's basically the last one to give up on touching the truck.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54- It doesn't do anything, you just stand...- No, you have to touch it.
0:19:54 > 0:19:55Yeah, it's going 80 mile an hour.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57LAUGHTER
0:19:57 > 0:19:59- Now, that would be a game. - Now, that's a game show.
0:19:59 > 0:20:01You were allowed...
0:20:01 > 0:20:02LAUGHTER
0:20:02 > 0:20:05You were allowed a ten-minute break every two hours
0:20:05 > 0:20:07and 15 minutes every six hours.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09But this is made-up, no-one would put their hands on...
0:20:09 > 0:20:11If you fell asleep, you were disqualified,
0:20:11 > 0:20:13so you had to stay awake.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15You couldn't just lie on the car with your hand on it,
0:20:15 > 0:20:17so you had to be consciously touching it.
0:20:17 > 0:20:21And if, the idea was, the last person left touching it won it.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24And the winner, you'll probably want to know all about him, I expect,
0:20:24 > 0:20:28he won the truck, obviously, and he sold it,
0:20:28 > 0:20:31in order to raise funds to stand as a political...
0:20:31 > 0:20:33- For arm surgery.- No.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35..to stand as a political candidate.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38He stood for Kingston and Surbiton at the 2001 general election.
0:20:38 > 0:20:44There was a turn-out of 49,093 people and he secured 54 votes.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46Wow.
0:20:46 > 0:20:47LAUGHTER
0:20:47 > 0:20:49We do it in New Zealand,
0:20:49 > 0:20:51that's a radio show contest that quite often happens.
0:20:51 > 0:20:55- Yeah, we're probably the last country still doing it. - I have to say...
0:20:55 > 0:20:57That's the only way you can get your cars, back in New Zealand.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59LAUGHTER
0:20:59 > 0:21:01Doing it on radio sounds even weirder to me, I have to say.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04They're still touching it. They're still touching it...
0:21:04 > 0:21:05Do you have to drum on it?
0:21:05 > 0:21:08No, they interview the people who are touching the car.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10So, "I've got John here, how's it going?
0:21:10 > 0:21:12"Ah, good, I'm still touching it." You know.
0:21:12 > 0:21:14"How many hours now? Seven."
0:21:14 > 0:21:16LAUGHTER
0:21:16 > 0:21:17Anyway, that's it,
0:21:17 > 0:21:20that's basically a game show inspired by a dark ages...
0:21:20 > 0:21:23- Endurance sort of thing.- ..endurance test, yeah. Extraordinary, isn't it?
0:21:23 > 0:21:28What sentence would you recommend in Jedward Justice?
0:21:28 > 0:21:30- Life.- Life!
0:21:30 > 0:21:33I feel very sorry for Rhys, we're giving you all kinds of cultural references
0:21:33 > 0:21:36that can mean nothing to you. Have you heard of Jedward?
0:21:36 > 0:21:37Are they judges?
0:21:37 > 0:21:39LAUGHTER
0:21:39 > 0:21:41- They look very young. - They are, I believe, Irish.
0:21:41 > 0:21:44- Are they twins or just brothers? - They're conjoined twin judges.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48- Are they, they're not conjoined, are they?- Well, they've done well, haven't they?
0:21:48 > 0:21:49LAUGHTER
0:21:49 > 0:21:51- Sorry. I didn't know!- Yes.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54That's the whole thing about them, that they're conjoined.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57- Oh, they are Siamese twins, are they?- They're conjoined twins, yeah.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00LAUGHTER
0:22:00 > 0:22:02- Is he having me on? He's having me on.- No, it looks like they are.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05- Come on! - Who has the arm in the middle?
0:22:05 > 0:22:07LAUGHTER
0:22:07 > 0:22:09They do look a little strange, I have to say,
0:22:09 > 0:22:11but that's probably because of the wig business.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13No, no, nothing to do with the wig.
0:22:13 > 0:22:14LAUGHTER
0:22:14 > 0:22:16- Right, OK. - The wig's got nothing to do with it.
0:22:16 > 0:22:20There really is such a thing as Jedward Justice. This pre-dates these twinsters.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22- Maybe that's where they got their name from.- Oh, I don't think so.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25This is a town which was originally called Jedward,
0:22:25 > 0:22:28and then it changed its name to Jedburgh.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30It still exists. Jedburgh, you may have heard of it?
0:22:30 > 0:22:33- In the northeast. - It is, it's on the Borders, in fact.
0:22:33 > 0:22:35It's a Border town, and that's the clue, really.
0:22:35 > 0:22:37But the Borders, as you know,
0:22:37 > 0:22:40suffered, throughout history, incursions and raids from England...
0:22:40 > 0:22:41From the rain.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45..raiding through Scotland, stealing and vice versa.
0:22:45 > 0:22:49And they were often summarily hanged without a trial.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51And it was known as Jedward Justice.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55And our name for that, where someone is especially killed without a trial
0:22:55 > 0:22:57is... What word do we use for that?
0:22:57 > 0:22:59- Oh, a lynch mob. - Lynch, lynch, lynch.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01Now, where does the word lynch, why is it called lynch?
0:23:01 > 0:23:03I have absolutely no idea.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07Well, there's a claim to the origin of the term lynch,
0:23:07 > 0:23:10which is a man called James Lynch Fitzstephen,
0:23:10 > 0:23:12who was the mayor of Galway, in Ireland.
0:23:12 > 0:23:16And he hanged his own son from the balcony of his house
0:23:16 > 0:23:20after convicting him of the murder of a Spanish visitor in 1493.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23- So that's pretty bold, isn't it? - Wow.
0:23:23 > 0:23:24A bike...
0:23:24 > 0:23:28It's extreme. "He learnt his lesson. He never did it again."
0:23:28 > 0:23:29LAUGHTER
0:23:29 > 0:23:30No.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33Did you say hanged his own son for stealing a bike?
0:23:33 > 0:23:36- No.- No!- Did you, what did you think I said?- Did you nod off?
0:23:36 > 0:23:39I misheard you, because I'm so hungry, I don't know what I'm saying.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42- No, for killing a... - I can't concentrate when I'm hungry. - ..killing a Spaniard.
0:23:42 > 0:23:45- For killing a Spanish visitor, yeah, a Spaniard.- Has anyone got any food?
0:23:45 > 0:23:48- He killed...- Do you not listen to...?- No, he doesn't.
0:23:48 > 0:23:49- I'm starving hungry.- Are you?
0:23:49 > 0:23:52And now I can't concentrate because I'm having a blood sugar crash.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54I hope you never get called up for jury service
0:23:54 > 0:23:56and you're hungry in the afternoon.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59What was it, killed a Spaniard or stole a bike?
0:23:59 > 0:24:01LAUGHTER
0:24:01 > 0:24:03It's quite an important difference.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05- I'm starving.- Yeah... - Can I have an apple?
0:24:05 > 0:24:09- Where did that come from? - I don't know.- Stole a bike? - He was, your mind was wandering.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12I was just drifting off, I was thinking about pasta.
0:24:12 > 0:24:13LAUGHTER
0:24:13 > 0:24:14When his brain sugar drops,
0:24:14 > 0:24:18I'm afraid all kinds of weird things start to happen.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20Has no-one got something to eat here? Can we not...
0:24:20 > 0:24:22- Are you bringing something down? - Here you are.
0:24:22 > 0:24:24- Thank you very much. - What have we got?
0:24:24 > 0:24:26APPLAUSE
0:24:29 > 0:24:32- Some homemade flapjacks. - Oh, flapjacks!
0:24:32 > 0:24:34- Flapjacks.- Yes! Thank you.
0:24:34 > 0:24:38- Can I have a kiss?- Yeah, go on. - Oh, she has to have a kiss.
0:24:38 > 0:24:39Very good.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43APPLAUSE
0:24:43 > 0:24:46Have you got something to eat for Stephen as well?
0:24:46 > 0:24:48- No, no, honestly, I'm fine. - When was the bicycle invented?
0:24:48 > 0:24:51- It wasn't invented in 1493, was it? So it's doubly...- No, it wasn't.
0:24:51 > 0:24:52Doubly ridiculous.
0:24:52 > 0:24:54LAUGHTER
0:24:54 > 0:24:56I love the fact that you were questioning Alan's,
0:24:56 > 0:25:00as if Alan's mind works on logical rails.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02He wouldn't be found guilty of that.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05"Stole me bike. You what? I don't know."
0:25:05 > 0:25:07- Don't even know what one is. - Don't know what it is.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09It should be just enough sugar to get your mind
0:25:09 > 0:25:13to tell the difference between somebody murdering a Spaniard and stealing bikes.
0:25:13 > 0:25:14LAUGHTER
0:25:14 > 0:25:15Before the invention of the bike.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17Yeah, exactly. All right.
0:25:17 > 0:25:19- Let's just do the question again, come on.- No, no.
0:25:19 > 0:25:22- LAUGHTER - You don't get away with it that easily.
0:25:22 > 0:25:27Anyway, moving on, why should you never leave a judge in a room on his own?
0:25:28 > 0:25:31He might sentence himself.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33LAUGHTER
0:25:34 > 0:25:36- As it were.- As it were. - As 't were, yeah.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42- You're not allowed to. Well, if you're a barrister, you're not allowed to.- That's right.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46I used to work at the Crown Courts in Manchester, as a...
0:25:46 > 0:25:50As the accused. LAUGHTER
0:25:50 > 0:25:53- No, my dad and auntie were stenographers.- Oh, right!
0:25:53 > 0:25:58- So I used to, over the summer... - Oh, they used those machines. Oh, my goodness!- That sort of palaver.
0:25:58 > 0:26:00And if you were the last barrister knocking about,
0:26:00 > 0:26:04you weren't allowed to leave if the judge was still in.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07Exactly right. It's called dressing the judge.
0:26:07 > 0:26:10You don't actually dress him, it's just known as dressing the judge.
0:26:10 > 0:26:12Smug looking lot there, aren't they?
0:26:12 > 0:26:15The one at the back's had a lovely moment.
0:26:15 > 0:26:18LAUGHTER
0:26:18 > 0:26:21He really is... It's a bit of a bliss-out, isn't it?
0:26:21 > 0:26:24He's really very happy. But in fact, in actual terms of dressing a judge,
0:26:24 > 0:26:26it's a very expensive business.
0:26:26 > 0:26:31The High Court judges' attire can amount to £14,920.
0:26:31 > 0:26:33That's quite expensive for your work year.
0:26:33 > 0:26:37It includes the cost of two scarlet robes like this, and a silk one.
0:26:37 > 0:26:41The horse hair wig costs £1,295.
0:26:41 > 0:26:43They have court britches with buckles at £665.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45Stockings, suspenders.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48- Well, they do have to wear stockings.- Bras.
0:26:48 > 0:26:50When you take silk, you have to wear
0:26:50 > 0:26:52two pairs of stockings as a barrister, and the reason for that
0:26:52 > 0:26:55is that Queen Victoria was very offended by the sight of
0:26:55 > 0:27:00- men's hairs sticking out from their legs through the silk tights. - JASON: That is horrible.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03So they have to wear two pairs of tights so their hairs didn't stick out.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06And this tradition continues to today. Isn't that interesting?
0:27:06 > 0:27:08- Yes, it is, Stephen. Thank you. Good. - LAUGHTER
0:27:08 > 0:27:10But the wig sort of doubles up now.
0:27:10 > 0:27:16I don't know if it's always been the case, but in a sort of Superman type disguise,
0:27:16 > 0:27:21if you ever see a judge out of his wig and robe, he looks completely different.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24So he can sort of have a little wonder around Manchester city centre
0:27:24 > 0:27:26even though everyone hates him, and no-one knows that it is him.
0:27:26 > 0:27:29That is one of the reasons they cling on to this whole business,
0:27:29 > 0:27:32they say it gives them a kind of anonymity.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36- Barristers are not allowed to shake hands with each other either.- I didn't know that. That's a good one.
0:27:36 > 0:27:39They're not allowed to shake hands with each other.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41- RHYS:- They fist pump, do they?
0:27:41 > 0:27:43LAUGHTER
0:27:43 > 0:27:46Out-of-court, they don't shake hands with each other.
0:27:46 > 0:27:50- How interesting!- I think it must be down to just, well, if he's looking after me,
0:27:50 > 0:27:53I don't want to see him fraternising with the enemy, sort of thing.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56Do you know about this one? If you're not properly dressed as a barrister,
0:27:56 > 0:27:58if you've not got the right black-and-white,
0:27:58 > 0:28:03or you're wearing a colourful tie or something like that, the judge, as it were, can't see you.
0:28:03 > 0:28:06- Oh, right.- He actually says, "I cannot see you."
0:28:06 > 0:28:08Also, "I cannot hear you."
0:28:08 > 0:28:10If he's not properly dressed. "I cannot hear you".
0:28:10 > 0:28:13You can shout as loud as you like, if he's not properly dressed,
0:28:13 > 0:28:16- "I can't see you." - LAUGHTER
0:28:16 > 0:28:18"Can't hear you."
0:28:18 > 0:28:20All of that.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23So until they wear the right clothes they cannot be seen or heard by the judge.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26Weird situation if you didn't know what item of clothing you had on
0:28:26 > 0:28:30- that was offending him.- Yes. - And you'd be going, "Is it the bow tie, is it...?"
0:28:30 > 0:28:33And then the second you took it off, he went "Hello!"
0:28:33 > 0:28:36LAUGHTER
0:28:36 > 0:28:38- There you are!- They're you are!
0:28:38 > 0:28:43Anyway, now, what happened when the biggest miser in the land forgot his reading glasses?
0:28:43 > 0:28:46He made an error in which he gave away his fortune,
0:28:46 > 0:28:48or something happened...?
0:28:48 > 0:28:50No. Because he had forgotten his glasses,
0:28:50 > 0:28:53he wasn't able to sign a document, because he couldn't see.
0:28:53 > 0:28:55So he said, "I'll take the document and I'll sign it at home."
0:28:55 > 0:28:57What might that document have been?
0:28:57 > 0:29:00- His will maybe?- His will, yes.
0:29:00 > 0:29:02So, there he is, he's got his will, he said,
0:29:02 > 0:29:05"Oh, I'll take it home and sign it at home."
0:29:05 > 0:29:07- He got home...- Died.- Yes.
0:29:07 > 0:29:09CHUCKLING
0:29:09 > 0:29:10Now, that case...
0:29:10 > 0:29:12HE LAUGHS
0:29:12 > 0:29:16His name... His name was Jennens and he was very, very rich,
0:29:16 > 0:29:18and he had quite a lot of family.
0:29:18 > 0:29:20So there was a case called Jennens v Jennens,
0:29:20 > 0:29:22or as a lawyer would say, Jennens and Jennens.
0:29:22 > 0:29:26And it started in 1798, when he died,
0:29:26 > 0:29:30and it ended in 1915.
0:29:30 > 0:29:31Wow.
0:29:31 > 0:29:32- Wow.- Why did it end?
0:29:32 > 0:29:34The jury all died.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36- No.- The Jennens died?
0:29:36 > 0:29:38- No.- Oh, they found his glasses.
0:29:38 > 0:29:39Because...
0:29:39 > 0:29:41LAUGHTER
0:29:41 > 0:29:45APPLAUSE
0:29:48 > 0:29:52It died for the same reason that the fictional version of this case,
0:29:52 > 0:29:55that Charles Dickens made famous in his novel Bleak House,
0:29:55 > 0:29:57Jarndyce versus Jarndyce,
0:29:57 > 0:30:00which he based exactly on this story, for the same reason.
0:30:00 > 0:30:02The estate ran out of money.
0:30:02 > 0:30:05The lawyers had used up every penny of the estate.
0:30:05 > 0:30:06Wow.
0:30:06 > 0:30:08That... Doesn't that tell you everything you need to know,
0:30:08 > 0:30:10and Bleak House, of course,
0:30:10 > 0:30:12which is one of Dickens' absolute masterpieces,
0:30:12 > 0:30:16has this court case running through it, Jarndyce versus Jarndyce.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18And it's been going for dozens of years in Chancery.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21But he wrote that in 1852.
0:30:21 > 0:30:25And this Jennens case had been going on for 54 years.
0:30:25 > 0:30:26And Dickens was little to know
0:30:26 > 0:30:30that it was to carry on going till the First World War!
0:30:30 > 0:30:31I mean staggering, isn't it?
0:30:31 > 0:30:33And all because the man forgot to sign his will,
0:30:33 > 0:30:36these people were so desperate, so rapacious.
0:30:36 > 0:30:38They didn't forget that he'd died.
0:30:38 > 0:30:41LAUGHTER
0:30:41 > 0:30:43- Here there are.- There they are.
0:30:43 > 0:30:47Must be very good glasses if they're going to help you read that book.
0:30:47 > 0:30:50Have you done your wills? Have you had that chat?
0:30:50 > 0:30:52It's actually depressing.
0:30:52 > 0:30:55We had a lady come round to the house and sat down with her.
0:30:55 > 0:30:57And because she's so used to talking about death,
0:30:57 > 0:31:00she's sort of, like, not bothered about it.
0:31:00 > 0:31:03- Nonchalant.- Yeah, I'd say so. And she sat there and she said,
0:31:03 > 0:31:06"Right, so if you die, where do you want your money and house and all that to go to?"
0:31:06 > 0:31:10I said, "Well, the wife and kids and that." She said, "And if you and your wife both die?"
0:31:10 > 0:31:11I said, "Er..."
0:31:11 > 0:31:13- RHYS:- Steady on!
0:31:13 > 0:31:17"Well, just, the kids, and then maybe kids go with my brother and that."
0:31:17 > 0:31:20- And then she said, "And if you and the kids."- The whole family are wiped out.
0:31:20 > 0:31:24I said, "I'd like to spend some money on some sort of inquest, to be honest."
0:31:24 > 0:31:26LAUGHTER
0:31:26 > 0:31:30See what the hell went on, wiped a family of five off the planet.
0:31:30 > 0:31:35Mine was a bit more circumspect. They kept finding different words for die.
0:31:35 > 0:31:37"And if you both...go."
0:31:37 > 0:31:40- LAUGHTER - Perish.- Depart.
0:31:40 > 0:31:43If you're both gathered to the bosom of Abraham.
0:31:43 > 0:31:47- LAUGHTER - well, I suppose as their job, isn't it?
0:31:47 > 0:31:49I think I've made a will, I can't remember.
0:31:49 > 0:31:52- You can have my collection of Wagner records.- Oh, thanks. That's very kind.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55- Make him sign it now. - LAUGHTER
0:31:55 > 0:31:59You'll be very keen for me not to sign it, I suspect.
0:31:59 > 0:32:01No, he was considered the richest commoner in the land,
0:32:01 > 0:32:04i.e. the richest non-aristocrat, and he lived in Grosvenor Square
0:32:04 > 0:32:07in a very sumptuous and beautiful house, except he lived
0:32:07 > 0:32:10in two tiny little rooms in the cellar, and kept the sumptuous rooms
0:32:10 > 0:32:13because he charged visitors to be shown round them.
0:32:13 > 0:32:15That's how much of a miser he was.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18If only three ghosts would have visited him.
0:32:18 > 0:32:21That would have sorted it out. "Give me the biggest turkey in the window!"
0:32:21 > 0:32:24Exactly right, exactly. Tiny Tim last of all.
0:32:24 > 0:32:28Anyway, where would you find a precocious toddler,
0:32:28 > 0:32:31a fertile octogenarian and a moron in a hurry?
0:32:31 > 0:32:32Is that on...?
0:32:32 > 0:32:34GUILLOTINE
0:32:34 > 0:32:36- Buckingham Palace. - Oh!
0:32:36 > 0:32:38Yeah, like the Celebrity Big Brother.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41Is that, are they calling Lee Evans a moron there? That seems very tough.
0:32:41 > 0:32:43No, he's the precocious toddler in that.
0:32:43 > 0:32:46Oh, I see, fair enough, fair enough. Phew.
0:32:46 > 0:32:48Again, this is in law. A moron in a hurry?
0:32:48 > 0:32:54- Well, we've all been that. - Yes, we have. These are sort of fictional types of people.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57- That they use in law language. - That they use in law.
0:32:57 > 0:33:00The most famous one is the man on the Clapham...?
0:33:00 > 0:33:01Omnibus.
0:33:01 > 0:33:04- Omnibus... - That's to do with advertising.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07- ..i.e. what we would call the man... No, it's just the man in the street. - Oh, I see.
0:33:07 > 0:33:10English common law is based on the idea of the reasonable man.
0:33:10 > 0:33:12What would a reasonable person think? You know.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14The man on the Clapham omnibus is not stupid,
0:33:14 > 0:33:17but he's not a professor of astrophysics.
0:33:17 > 0:33:18He's not a moron in a hurry,
0:33:18 > 0:33:21he's just an ordinary sensible citizen,
0:33:21 > 0:33:24and that is used as a standard by judges.
0:33:24 > 0:33:27And a moron in a hurry is used as a standard
0:33:27 > 0:33:30for another kind of problem in law that might come up.
0:33:30 > 0:33:33It's in the area of passing off. Do you know what I mean by passing off?
0:33:33 > 0:33:36- Like logos or something? - Yeah. So, expand.
0:33:36 > 0:33:40Almost like false advertising, or maybe plagiarism.
0:33:40 > 0:33:43- That's more like it. As it were, product plagiarism.- Yes.
0:33:43 > 0:33:45Suppose I brought out something called Boca Bola,
0:33:45 > 0:33:47and it was in a can exactly like,
0:33:47 > 0:33:51with the same lettering and the same patterning, that would be against the law.
0:33:51 > 0:33:52So would the moron in a hurry...
0:33:52 > 0:33:55A moron in a hurry probably, would he notice that?
0:33:55 > 0:34:00If it was green not red, he would notice. Even a moron in a hurry would notice,
0:34:00 > 0:34:02that would not count as passing off.
0:34:02 > 0:34:06But if it was very similar and he thought, "Oh, I'm buying a can of Coke."
0:34:06 > 0:34:09That's passing off, you know, because you don't have to look very hard,
0:34:09 > 0:34:12you can just quickly see it seems to be the same thing.
0:34:12 > 0:34:14So that's just used as a sort of type.
0:34:14 > 0:34:16You've got to be careful there,
0:34:16 > 0:34:19because you've also got people who are not very observant.
0:34:19 > 0:34:22- Well, there is that, of course. - You know, I mean that's, that's me.
0:34:22 > 0:34:23Are you not an observant person?
0:34:23 > 0:34:24Sometimes, well, yes,
0:34:24 > 0:34:27when I was in the army there was an observation trail we had to do,
0:34:27 > 0:34:30and you had to walk through the bush and they put all these things,
0:34:30 > 0:34:32and you had to go through and have a look,
0:34:32 > 0:34:34and then, when you came out the other end of the bush,
0:34:34 > 0:34:37the sergeant would ask you, "What sort of things did you see?"
0:34:37 > 0:34:40And I told him I saw three things,
0:34:40 > 0:34:43including the cone which marked the exit. So...
0:34:43 > 0:34:45LAUGHTER
0:34:45 > 0:34:47..it was really just two things I saw,
0:34:47 > 0:34:50and there were 17 things in the bush.
0:34:50 > 0:34:53And one of those was a tank. So...
0:34:53 > 0:34:56LAUGHTER
0:34:56 > 0:35:00But, you know, my excuse was a lot of it was camouflaged.
0:35:00 > 0:35:03Yeah. That's good.
0:35:03 > 0:35:06- But I'm not a moron in a hurry. - No.- Because I took a long time.
0:35:06 > 0:35:08You were a simple moron.
0:35:08 > 0:35:11- Three times the length of time. - A casual moron. Yeah.- Yeah.
0:35:11 > 0:35:15So you'd be a fertile octogenarian then, in that.
0:35:15 > 0:35:18Yes. And the fertile octogenarian is a fictitious character
0:35:18 > 0:35:21that presumes that anyone, even an octogenarian, can parent a child.
0:35:21 > 0:35:26- So they're these kind of archetypes and...- What's the kid, why is she in a mood?- Precocious toddler.
0:35:26 > 0:35:30- It's like a fertile octogenarian at the other end of the scale. - Oh, OK.
0:35:30 > 0:35:33To be fair, she's not a toddler, she's a bit older than that.
0:35:33 > 0:35:36She is, she looks jolly cross, doesn't she? Jolly cross.
0:35:36 > 0:35:39Anyway, not in the realm of fiction, and certainly not legal,
0:35:39 > 0:35:41can you explain this?
0:35:41 > 0:35:45Two people claim to have had sex on the moon.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48Who are they, how did they do it?
0:35:48 > 0:35:53- Well, they are clearly under the moon. - LAUGHTER
0:35:53 > 0:35:55Yes, they are rather, aren't they?
0:35:55 > 0:35:57It's not Armstrong and Aldrin.
0:35:57 > 0:36:00JASON: Well, we hope not. It's not the astronauts.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02BRIAN: It's no-one that's actually been there.
0:36:02 > 0:36:06Not on the moon itself, but are there any bits of the moon on earth?
0:36:06 > 0:36:07- Moon rock. Yeah, moon rock.- Yes.
0:36:07 > 0:36:12In the spring of 2002, an intern at NASA at the Johnson Space Center in Houston,
0:36:12 > 0:36:17three interns, stole the whole safe full of rock samples there.
0:36:17 > 0:36:23The ringleader, Thad Roberts, and his accomplice with the wonderful name of Tiffany Fowler,
0:36:23 > 0:36:27apparently spread the rocks on a bed
0:36:27 > 0:36:29and did it on the rocks.
0:36:29 > 0:36:34- That doesn't sound... It's horrible. - They got their rocks off on the rock.
0:36:34 > 0:36:36It does sound uncomfortable, but it's certainly unique.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39I don't suppose any other couple on earth can claim
0:36:39 > 0:36:41to have shagged on the moon, or at least on bits of the moon.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44- I think I own a bit of the moon. - You own a bit of the moon?
0:36:44 > 0:36:46Yeah, someone got it me once for my birthday.
0:36:46 > 0:36:48Oh, it's like having a star named after you.
0:36:48 > 0:36:52- I don't know how legitimate it is. I'm just waiting for Branson to sort it out.- Yes.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55- Then I'll go up there and have a little look.- You'll probably know more about this than I do,
0:36:55 > 0:36:59but Virgin Atlantic is not the only company that's seeking
0:36:59 > 0:37:02to offer at least a journey out of the atmosphere,
0:37:02 > 0:37:05but it'll be quite a short time out of the atmosphere, won't it?
0:37:05 > 0:37:07Yeah, you're up there for a few minutes.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11It'll cost a lot, but would you consider doing it?
0:37:11 > 0:37:14- I would, undoubtedly, yeah. - It's more of a thrill ride, isn't it?
0:37:14 > 0:37:17About two and a half minutes and then you come down.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20- Like the vomit comet, which is where you plunge down.- I did that.
0:37:20 > 0:37:24Oh, yes, you did, on your show, so you did. Yes, absolutely.
0:37:24 > 0:37:25And that's remarkable.
0:37:25 > 0:37:29I have to say, I watched it and I admired you, you did very well.
0:37:29 > 0:37:33- But I was really admiring the cameraman.- Spinning around.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35Yes, managing to keep you in shot, which can't have been easy.
0:37:35 > 0:37:39But there will be bits of the moon other than the bits that were brought back
0:37:39 > 0:37:40on the surface of the earth.
0:37:40 > 0:37:44There's quite a lot of moon and Mars, because you get meteorites...
0:37:44 > 0:37:48- Of course!- ..that enter the earth's atmosphere, and it may be apocryphal,
0:37:48 > 0:37:54- but there's a story of a piece of Mars hitting a dog in Egypt and killed the dog.- Really?
0:37:54 > 0:37:57- Yeah. What are the chances? The unlucky dog.- Poor dog!
0:37:57 > 0:38:00But it's one of the Martian meteorites, one of the famous Martian meteorites.
0:38:00 > 0:38:03- Presumably it ended his life, coming in at quite a speed.- Yes.
0:38:03 > 0:38:07- Did it go, "bonk", "arf!"? - LAUGHTER
0:38:07 > 0:38:09- Would have been good if he'd caught it. - LAUGTER
0:38:09 > 0:38:12There's also story of a woman whose leg was broken by a meteorite.
0:38:12 > 0:38:16She was in bed and one came through her roof and broke her leg.
0:38:16 > 0:38:21Brian, is the moon the same all the way through, or is the surface different from the rest?
0:38:21 > 0:38:27It's not got an iron core, because it's thought to have been blasted off the edge of the Earth
0:38:27 > 0:38:31by a collision early on in the formation of the solar system.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34Did they go down very far, the Apollo astronauts, when they were collecting samples?
0:38:34 > 0:38:39- No, they just scooped it off the surface.- Into a sack and off they went.- Yeah.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42That's some of the evidence that tells you that the moon was
0:38:42 > 0:38:44blasted off the earth at some point in the past,
0:38:44 > 0:38:46because the composition of the rock is very similar.
0:38:46 > 0:38:51Anyway, I should point out that the story that Thad Roberts tells of shagging on the moon,
0:38:51 > 0:38:54not everybody believes him, some people think he's just a big, old show off,
0:38:54 > 0:38:58and it's not true, but he certainly claims it, so who knows.
0:38:58 > 0:39:03And finally, why would I encourage a psychopath to eyeball my crotch?
0:39:03 > 0:39:05LAUGHTER
0:39:05 > 0:39:09Look at that picture. I mean...
0:39:09 > 0:39:10Wow.
0:39:10 > 0:39:13- This is one of those that I don't think we want to know the real answer.- No.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15It's not a nice idea.
0:39:15 > 0:39:16Would it release the tension?
0:39:16 > 0:39:20Well, I'm afraid we're back in the weird world of the 1960s
0:39:20 > 0:39:25and we're in the world of theoretical psychiatry.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28And it won't surprise you to learn that it was in California,
0:39:28 > 0:39:31there was a psychologist called Paul Bindrim,
0:39:31 > 0:39:34who pioneered nude psychotherapy,
0:39:34 > 0:39:37in 1967, at a nudist resort.
0:39:37 > 0:39:39And he devised discomforting exercises,
0:39:39 > 0:39:42one of which was called "crotch eyeballing",
0:39:42 > 0:39:44in which participants were instructed
0:39:44 > 0:39:46to look at each other's genitals...
0:39:46 > 0:39:47Oh, God!
0:39:47 > 0:39:51..and disclose the sexual experiences they felt most guilty about,
0:39:51 > 0:39:55while lying naked in a circle with their legs in the air.
0:39:55 > 0:39:56LAUGHTER
0:39:56 > 0:39:58I'm afraid there was a doctor
0:39:58 > 0:40:00at Oak Ridge Hospital for the Criminally Insane,
0:40:00 > 0:40:03a Canadian psychiatrist, called Elliot Barker,
0:40:03 > 0:40:07who did a marathon nude psychotherapy session for criminal psychopaths.
0:40:07 > 0:40:12These raw naked LSD-fuelled sessions lasted 11 days.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14Wow.
0:40:14 > 0:40:2011 days you'd give a psychopath LSD, take their clothes off and...
0:40:20 > 0:40:22But you see, I believe in evidence-based medicine,
0:40:22 > 0:40:26so if that can be shown to work, it should be available on the NHS.
0:40:26 > 0:40:27Well, I agree.
0:40:27 > 0:40:28LAUGHTER
0:40:28 > 0:40:30It's not... It doesn't matter how ridiculous it is.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33You're right, you're so right. I too am an empiricist like you.
0:40:33 > 0:40:37You will be pleased to know that the average rate of recidivism
0:40:37 > 0:40:40amongst psychopaths is 60%.
0:40:40 > 0:40:43Amongst those who did that programme, it was 80%.
0:40:43 > 0:40:44LAUGHTER
0:40:44 > 0:40:46There we are. Therefore, it's a strong case.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48So, we think it's a bad idea.
0:40:48 > 0:40:50Recidivism is when you do it, the crime, again.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52Oh, I see, I see. Yes, yes.
0:40:52 > 0:40:53But why don't we try it?
0:40:53 > 0:40:54LAUGHTER
0:40:54 > 0:40:58Let's get up. Let's all get up and show each other our genitals.
0:40:58 > 0:40:59LAUGHTER
0:40:59 > 0:41:02Alan, come on, come on. Come on.
0:41:02 > 0:41:03APPLAUSE
0:41:06 > 0:41:09There's a lot of people getting cameras out, that's a bit...
0:41:09 > 0:41:10LAUGHTER
0:41:10 > 0:41:11Social networking.
0:41:11 > 0:41:14He's got a very long telephoto lens as well, it's insulting.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17You won't see mine from there, you'll have to come nearer.
0:41:17 > 0:41:19LAUGHTER
0:41:19 > 0:41:21APPLAUSE
0:41:23 > 0:41:26Maybe the audience could take their clothes off as well.
0:41:26 > 0:41:28Would you feel good about that?
0:41:28 > 0:41:29Yeah, I'd feel more comfortable.
0:41:29 > 0:41:32All right, OK. I hope the BBC lets us show this moment.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34- So, one, two, three. - Trousers off!
0:41:34 > 0:41:35BEEPING
0:41:35 > 0:41:39Oh, dear! We, uh...seem to have a technical problem.
0:41:39 > 0:41:41We're working to fix that as soon as we can.
0:41:41 > 0:41:45Uh... Good, it's fixed now, so let's get straight back to QI.
0:41:45 > 0:41:48Hopefully, we haven't missed anything quite interesting.
0:41:48 > 0:41:51Oh, that was very good, that worked well. Very, very good.
0:41:51 > 0:41:53APPLAUSE
0:41:53 > 0:41:56- That was interesting. - Yeah.- Very interesting.
0:42:01 > 0:42:03And I can see why they call you Brian Cox now.
0:42:03 > 0:42:05Yes!
0:42:05 > 0:42:06Absolutely.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09- And a blue one is so weird. - Yeah, I know, all right.
0:42:09 > 0:42:12Anyway, we've learnt a lot about each other and about the audience.
0:42:12 > 0:42:15Thank you for participating as well, audience. How very kind.
0:42:15 > 0:42:17APPLAUSE
0:42:17 > 0:42:21It was very interesting, it was very revealing, and talking of revealing,
0:42:21 > 0:42:24there is something after all to be said for crotch-eyeballing,
0:42:24 > 0:42:28but there's a lot more to be said for score eyeballing.
0:42:28 > 0:42:32And my goodness me, do we have some scores for you today.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35It's hard to believe that a man of such intellect should be in last place,
0:42:35 > 0:42:38but I'm sorry to say, on minus seven, it's Brian Cox.
0:42:38 > 0:42:39Oh, God!
0:42:39 > 0:42:43APPLAUSE
0:42:43 > 0:42:47And on minus two, Janus... Janus?!
0:42:47 > 0:42:48LAUGHTER
0:42:48 > 0:42:50Jason, Jason Manford.
0:42:50 > 0:42:53APPLAUSE
0:42:53 > 0:42:55Oh, dear.
0:42:55 > 0:42:59In second place, with a magnificent plus score of three, is Rhys Darby.
0:42:59 > 0:43:01- Oh, well done, mate.- Thank you. - Good work.
0:43:01 > 0:43:02APPLAUSE
0:43:02 > 0:43:04Thank you.
0:43:04 > 0:43:06And, can we believe it, ladies and gentlemen,
0:43:06 > 0:43:08with a towering five inches, I mean, sorry...
0:43:08 > 0:43:10LAUGHTER
0:43:10 > 0:43:12..a towering five points, Alan Davies.
0:43:12 > 0:43:14APPLAUSE
0:43:23 > 0:43:26It only remains for me to thank Rhys, Jason, Brian and Alan
0:43:26 > 0:43:30and may God have mercy on your souls. Good night.
0:43:30 > 0:43:32CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:43:48 > 0:43:51Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd