0:00:01 > 0:00:04This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:04 > 0:00:07Name one Cornish newsreader or presenter. ..More on those badgers.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10Is there something we might find for Sally Wingate? No.
0:00:10 > 0:00:13Is it worth thinking about Britain's Tastiest Village?
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Village is appointment-to-view television.
0:00:15 > 0:00:17You're telling me we've lost Clare Balding?
0:00:17 > 0:00:19I know it's not words you want to hear.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21We'd love you to do the show, Carol.
0:00:21 > 0:00:23It's like me in a restaurant with Carol Vorderman.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25I'm like "Guys, whatever happens, it's enough."
0:00:25 > 0:00:30'Now she says she believes that could be down to the Corporation's
0:00:30 > 0:00:32'institutional anti-West Country bias.'
0:00:32 > 0:00:34What? Bollocks.
0:00:34 > 0:00:35So that's happened.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38Woman's Hour. I've got you on tomorrow with Jenni Murray.
0:00:38 > 0:00:39Got ME on?
0:00:39 > 0:00:42All you need to do is decide whether you want to go up tonight
0:00:42 > 0:00:44or catch the early train in the morning.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46Manchester? Gah, no, bad luck.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Stand by, Two. Mix through.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57Cue on two.
0:00:57 > 0:00:59The BBC's announced the appointment
0:00:59 > 0:01:01of ex-Head of Olympic Deliveries, Ian Fletcher,
0:01:01 > 0:01:02as its new Head of Values.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10'Time now for the shipping forecast.'
0:01:12 > 0:01:13Superimpose.
0:01:37 > 0:01:38There you go.
0:01:38 > 0:01:41Oh, right, Tracey, thanks, that's great.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43Don't think I normally do this, Ian. No, I won't.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46I'm not the sort of person that gets the coffee in life. No.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49It's Friday morning and BBC Head of Values, Ian Fletcher,
0:01:49 > 0:01:50is at Euston Station
0:01:50 > 0:01:53with BBC Communications Officer Tracey Pritchard.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56Is there chocolate on that? No, there is not. No, OK, right.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58They're on their way up to Manchester
0:01:58 > 0:01:59so that Ian can take part
0:01:59 > 0:02:02in a live interview on Woman's Hour on Radio 4.
0:02:02 > 0:02:03I have to say, having slept on it,
0:02:03 > 0:02:05I still don't know why we're doing this.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08It's Friday. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.
0:02:08 > 0:02:10Why is Woman's Hour from Manchester on Fridays?
0:02:10 > 0:02:14OK. That's a good question, Ian. I'm not being funny or anything but I'm not sure anyone knows that.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17That's great, but why I couldn't just do it down the line from here...
0:02:17 > 0:02:19Ah, no. I mean, I have to say, it's beyond me.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22What it is is, because of the interest there is in this, Ian,
0:02:22 > 0:02:24because of the whole thing,
0:02:24 > 0:02:27it's crucial you're seen to be in the studio with Jenni. It's radio!
0:02:27 > 0:02:29With the BBC now accused of ageism, sexism,
0:02:29 > 0:02:32and institutional anti-West Country bias in its treatment
0:02:32 > 0:02:34of Spotlight South West presenter Sally Wingate,
0:02:34 > 0:02:38the Woman's Hour interview is an important test of Ian's purpose
0:02:38 > 0:02:40as the Corporation's new Head of Values and as a man.
0:02:40 > 0:02:42PHONE RINGS
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Oh, right, here we go. Hi, Siobhan... Oh, right. Best of luck with that.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48Yes, I'm at Euston, actually. I've just got on the train...
0:02:48 > 0:02:52What do you mean, where? I'm... No, wait, hang on a minute.
0:02:52 > 0:02:53Where are you?
0:02:53 > 0:02:55Oh, bloody great(!)
0:02:55 > 0:02:57Yeah, OK, OK, I can see you now.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00Yes, I know you can. Comin' at ya. Yes, I can see that too.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04But with the PR issues involved in something as highly visible as this,
0:03:04 > 0:03:07newly appointed Brand BBC Consultant Siobhan Sharpe
0:03:07 > 0:03:09from PR Company Perfect Curve
0:03:09 > 0:03:12knows how vital it is to make herself visible, too.
0:03:12 > 0:03:14OK, so let's do this. Let's ride this train!
0:03:14 > 0:03:16Yes. Great.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18Let's nail this puppy to the floor.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38Oh, right. OK. Here we go. What?
0:03:38 > 0:03:40The Culture Secretary has been on the Today Programme.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42It's not a good start to the journey.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45In an interview on today's Today Programme on Radio 4,
0:03:45 > 0:03:48the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport
0:03:48 > 0:03:50has expressed his or her "disappointment"
0:03:50 > 0:03:52about the way the BBC has treated Sally Wingate.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54What I'm going to do is, if it's all right with you,
0:03:54 > 0:03:55I want to use this time
0:03:55 > 0:03:57to go through a few scenarios with you, Ian.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Sure. I've been thinking about this, obviously.
0:04:00 > 0:04:01I'm sure you have, Ian,
0:04:01 > 0:04:04but I'm not being funny or anything but you're a man. Well, yes.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08Being a woman, I can say this. You're in very tricky territory with this issue, and it's live.
0:04:08 > 0:04:09Yes. What I'm thinking...
0:04:09 > 0:04:12Jenni's going to want to talk about Sally Wingate, obviously.
0:04:12 > 0:04:15Obviously. Whereas I would say you don't want to do that.
0:04:15 > 0:04:16No, the sooner...
0:04:16 > 0:04:18What you want to be talking about is Carol Vorderman.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22Right. She's our trump card here, and we're bringing her back to the BBC in a new show.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25Well, yes. She's in her fifties, she's good with numbers,
0:04:25 > 0:04:28and my husband always said if he left me for anybody,
0:04:28 > 0:04:29it would be for her. Did he?
0:04:29 > 0:04:33He did, yes. As it turned out, he left me for a receptionist in a BMW showroom.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35Really? But that's a different story
0:04:35 > 0:04:37that doesn't alter what I'm saying here.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39Carol ticks all the boxes for us. We love Carol.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55David, I don't understand what you're saying to me.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58I know, I just got this text out of nowhere. Yeah, but you're not making sense.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00I know. It's a nightmare.
0:05:00 > 0:05:04Meanwhile, back in London, experienced producer Lucy Freeman
0:05:04 > 0:05:07and entertainment format producer David Wilkes are in early.
0:05:07 > 0:05:09I'm in the coffee queue as usual, and I'm decaf first up
0:05:09 > 0:05:12cos I'm in early, it's a big day, and I'm not going to max out
0:05:12 > 0:05:14my caffeine levels because... Yes, whatever.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18I'm standing there and get, like, a text, and look down and it's, like, Clare Balding. Yes.
0:05:18 > 0:05:19And I'm like, "What the fuck?"
0:05:19 > 0:05:22With Carol Vorderman coming in this morning
0:05:22 > 0:05:25to discuss her presenting role on Britain's Tastiest Village,
0:05:25 > 0:05:28a major new flagship BBC One show which she's eventually agreed
0:05:28 > 0:05:30to co-host with Alan Titchmarsh,
0:05:30 > 0:05:32and with Head of Output, Anna Rampton, due to announce it
0:05:32 > 0:05:35at a BAFTA Spirit of Excellence Forum at lunchtime,
0:05:35 > 0:05:38there's been some inexplicably unforeseen news.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41But even then, why would she want to see us? Why is she in the building?
0:05:41 > 0:05:44She's coming in later for like, I don't know. A horse thing, whatever.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47Wanted to pop in and say hi first. But Carol's in this morning. I know.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51How has this even happened? I know, tell me about it. No, I'm asking you, how has this happened?
0:05:51 > 0:05:53I just, like, got a text out of nowhere.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55It's gradually emerging that Clare Balding,
0:05:55 > 0:05:58the original choice to present Britain's Tastiest Village,
0:05:58 > 0:06:01is available after all and apparently still committed to the show.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03I phoned Simon at ITV, and apparently Clare
0:06:03 > 0:06:05is so committed to Village that she's like,
0:06:05 > 0:06:08"I'm not going to do How Big Is Your Dog? at all unless they change dates."
0:06:08 > 0:06:11No. In the end, they were like, "Yeah, OK, then, whatever."
0:06:11 > 0:06:13(Oh, you're joking.) Simon's practically suicidal.
0:06:13 > 0:06:15Does Anna know? Anna?
0:06:15 > 0:06:17Have you told Anna?
0:06:17 > 0:06:19Oh, yeah, right. Well, no. I mean, not really.
0:06:19 > 0:06:20I mean, this is your show, David.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23I'm happy to help, but for God's sake... I know. It's a nightmare.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27So when you last spoke to Clare, cos you spoke to her, didn't you?
0:06:27 > 0:06:30Yeah. How did you leave it with her when the dates all went wrong?
0:06:30 > 0:06:33Clare was really brilliant about everything.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36You told her we were going to have to move on and everything,
0:06:36 > 0:06:38you made that clear? Yeah. Uhhh...
0:06:38 > 0:06:40We just had a lovely chat. Oh, you're kidding me.
0:06:40 > 0:06:42You know what Clare's like, lovely Clare.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46Nobody wrote the letter? Right. Or the e-mail saying how sad we were to lose her?
0:06:46 > 0:06:48How we completely understood her situation,
0:06:48 > 0:06:51how reluctantly we had to move on without her? Yes, right, good. No.
0:06:51 > 0:06:56Nobody did that? I know. I just, like, got this text out of nowhere.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59OK, so here's the thing with this, guys, here's what it is.
0:06:59 > 0:07:03Forget radio, forget Jenni Murphy, forget all that. Murray. Excuse me? Jenni Murray.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06Sure, forget her. How many people listen to Women's Hour? Uh, well...
0:07:06 > 0:07:09Woman's Hour. Sure. How many people listen to it?
0:07:09 > 0:07:12I'm not sure of the figures, but... OK, so how many people?
0:07:12 > 0:07:16How many? I don't know, just to save time, I give up. Exactly. Go figure. Whereas...
0:07:16 > 0:07:18No, no, hang on. What is it? What's the answer?
0:07:18 > 0:07:21Exactly, that's my point, Ian. No-one even knows that shit.
0:07:21 > 0:07:223,470,000. Excuse me?
0:07:22 > 0:07:27The average weekly audience of Woman's Hour is 3,470,000.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29OK, so that's like a number, right? Well, yes.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31Plus they're going to be, like old people, right?
0:07:31 > 0:07:33They're going to be sitting there anyway.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36How many people follow Justin Bieber on Twitter?
0:07:36 > 0:07:3845,000,000. OK, fine, that's... 45,000,000? Sure.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40God, that's depressing.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43What's happening today is Brand Fletcher, Head of, um,
0:07:43 > 0:07:46like, Head of... Head of Values. Head of Values, yeah, cool.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49Siobhan, for a start, I don't actually tweet, OK?
0:07:49 > 0:07:51So, I mean, I'm not even on Twitter, so... Na-ah.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55I'm sorry, Siobhan, I don't want to be rude or anything but Ian is not Justin Bieber.
0:07:55 > 0:07:56Well, no, exactly.
0:07:56 > 0:07:58And to be honest, as far as I can see,
0:07:58 > 0:08:00he's never going to be either. I'm sorry, Ian.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03No, that's fine. I have to tell things as they are. Yes, of course.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05OK, so you totally are on Twitter.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08Yeah, what? As of now, you have 14,000 followers. What?!
0:08:08 > 0:08:13Meanwhile, somewhere between London Euston and Manchester Piccadilly, it's becoming clear that Siobhan
0:08:13 > 0:08:16has had her office at Perfect Curve set up a Twitter account
0:08:16 > 0:08:18for Ian in order to establish his cultural capital.
0:08:18 > 0:08:21So what happens is... Guys, we are now approaching Macclesfield.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24OK, so what happens is, like, you tweet:
0:08:24 > 0:08:27"Yay, on the train to Manchester for Women's Hour.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31"Soooo excited, can't wait. Catch me on Radio 2 at ten."
0:08:31 > 0:08:33It's Woman's Hour.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35Also, it's Radio 4, just as a detail.
0:08:35 > 0:08:37And then we tweet it to Jamie Oliver. Jamie Oliver?
0:08:37 > 0:08:40Yeah, we love Jamie, he owes us big. But, Siobhan...
0:08:40 > 0:08:42When he first came to us, he didn't even have the lisp.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46So then Jamie re-tweets it, and suddenly it's hashtag mashup city.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48One of the design flaws with your strategy, Siobhan, is,
0:08:48 > 0:08:50I haven't tweeted that and I'm afraid I won't tweet that
0:08:50 > 0:08:53or anything remotely like that in the foreseeable future.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55No, that's cool. I'm sorry.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58No, I'm good with that. No, I tweeted it for you. What?
0:08:58 > 0:09:00Congratulations, Ian. You've changed the game here.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03Suddenly, Jenni Murphy's nowhere. It's Murray, OK?
0:09:03 > 0:09:06It's Woman's Hour with Jenni Murray on Radio bloody 4.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08I'm sorry, this is wrong. We need to talk about this.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11Got a paradigm, got to shift it, Ian.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14No, you're not actually listening. OK, I totally am listening.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16What it is is, you guys are not saying the right stuff.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48So you're collecting Carol?
0:09:55 > 0:09:58You're picking up Carol from Reception?
0:09:58 > 0:10:00Yes, hi. I was just...
0:10:00 > 0:10:02Yes, no, that's fine.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06And we're meeting her where?
0:10:06 > 0:10:09Yes, I'll book somewhere and I'll try,
0:10:09 > 0:10:10and I'll find somewhere that's free.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13Good, because I've got to be away by 10.45. Right. OK.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16I'm getting a lift with Patten to this BAFTA thing
0:10:16 > 0:10:18and he likes to be bloody early.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20Yes, no, that should be fine.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28And we're confident Carol's on board?
0:10:28 > 0:10:30Yes, I mean yes, I mean yes. What?
0:10:30 > 0:10:33No, I mean, I'm sure she's already decided, basically, you know.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36She's just coming in this morning to give us
0:10:36 > 0:10:38an opportunity to tell her how fabulous she is. Right.
0:10:38 > 0:10:40Yes, you know how it is. Good.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43Well, I hope you're right, because this has been tight,
0:10:43 > 0:10:45and I have to say I'm not enjoying it at all.
0:10:45 > 0:10:47Yes. Oh, yes, cos, uh... Yeah?
0:10:47 > 0:10:50No, the other thing that's happened...
0:10:50 > 0:10:52what's also happened, Clare...
0:10:52 > 0:10:55I mean, as it turns out, can actually,
0:10:55 > 0:10:56and I think I'm right in saying
0:10:56 > 0:10:59she is actually coming in this morning, yes, she is in fact,
0:10:59 > 0:11:01is actually available after all.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05Clare? Clare Balding. Yes.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12Yes, so that's a bit of a surprise.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17It's perhaps worth reminding ourselves, Sarah,
0:11:17 > 0:11:20that 24 hours ago, this was a story about so-called institutional
0:11:20 > 0:11:23anti-West Country bias within the corporation.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26@KirstieAllsopp, "Give Jenni a big slobbery kiss from me".
0:11:26 > 0:11:28She truly is the mother of all presenters.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30Right.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33@GeriHalliwell. "Love, love, love Radio 4".
0:11:33 > 0:11:36Brainy people talking. Right, yes, thank you.
0:11:36 > 0:11:37I love this, I so love it.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41Meanwhile, Ian has already arrived at the Woman's Hour studio
0:11:41 > 0:11:43at the BBC's iconic Media City building in Salford,
0:11:43 > 0:11:46and is waiting for his turn with Jenni Murray.
0:11:46 > 0:11:50'The BBC has been through ups and downs, particularly in the last few years...'
0:11:50 > 0:11:53@rioferdy5, "England shit ever since Glenn Hoddle was manager.
0:11:53 > 0:11:54"Too much poverty in the world".
0:11:54 > 0:11:56Yes, I'm just watching this if that's OK.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58Sure. Thanks. No, sure, that's a good idea.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01'Disappointment in relation to the BBC, that's not good...'
0:12:01 > 0:12:03We're all set up. Right. OK. Cool.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06Just so you know, I've had a word with Helen, the... OK.
0:12:06 > 0:12:08..A word with Helen, the producer,
0:12:08 > 0:12:10and what I've done is... Sure. ..I've basically... Yep.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14I'm talking to Ian, actually. Cool. This is important. No, sure, I'm good with that.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17I prepped her on Britain's Tastiest Village. Right.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20But I didn't mention Carol Vorderman. OK.
0:12:20 > 0:12:21I left that for you. So hopefully,
0:12:21 > 0:12:23that's going to help you move the conversation
0:12:23 > 0:12:27away from Sally Wingate... And towards the principle of a more diverse...
0:12:27 > 0:12:30Towards Carol Vorderman. Yes, exactly, towards Carol Vorderman.
0:12:30 > 0:12:33Which will be a surprise for Jenni, because she won't see that coming.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36At which point you're pretty much home and dry, in my opinion. Yes, good.
0:12:36 > 0:12:41OK. "OMG, Vorderman and Titchmarsh together at last, Sunday nights BBC One? No WAY.
0:12:41 > 0:12:43"Just gone seriously weird at the knees".
0:12:43 > 0:12:47I'm sorry? I love Twitter. I so love it. Who the hell's that from, for God's sake?
0:12:47 > 0:12:49That's from you. From me? Sure.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52Right. No, no, no. No, I'm sorry, Siobhan, you can't do this.
0:12:52 > 0:12:53No, I can. It's not an issue.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56No, you can't just do stuff like this on your own. De nada.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58Don't get me wrong, Siobhan. I'm grateful for your input. Sure.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01But I've set this thing up as an exclusive for Woman's Hour.
0:13:01 > 0:13:05I'm about to announce something live on radio, but apparently I've already tweeted it.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08You so have. You just totally bucket-sized the whole audience
0:13:08 > 0:13:09for everyone involved.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12What? You pre-tweeted this thing, Ian, you're totally ahead of trend.
0:13:12 > 0:13:16And here's the thing with this, you'd better get used to it, OK?
0:13:18 > 0:13:22This is a fiddly one, isn't it? Fiddly? It's really bad luck.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25Meanwhile, 180 miles south at New Broadcasting House
0:13:25 > 0:13:28in London, other events are happening,
0:13:28 > 0:13:29but at exactly the same time.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32And I'm looking down at my phone. I'm like, no way.
0:13:32 > 0:13:34Yep. It is genuinely hard to believe.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38I know, it's like, how has this even happened, guys, you know? OK, but it has, it's happened.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40I know.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42You guys will know what you want to do about it,
0:13:42 > 0:13:44but I'm happy to help you guys in any way I can. Yes.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48With Carol Vorderman due to arrive at any minute, so is Clare Balding,
0:13:48 > 0:13:51and an extraordinary meeting of the Damage Limitation Group
0:13:51 > 0:13:54chaired by Director of Strategic Governance Simon Harwood
0:13:54 > 0:13:55is already under way.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58Ah, yes, oh, thank you, Izzy. Brilliant.
0:13:58 > 0:14:00I haven't been involved in the detail of this
0:14:00 > 0:14:03and how you want to do this is very much up to you,
0:14:03 > 0:14:06and of course, Anna, I know you're going to have ideas.
0:14:06 > 0:14:08Well, I've said to Lucy... No, I don't want that.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11I said to Lucy, this needs to be sorted, and needs to be sorted now.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13Oh, no, brilliant. The fact is, I've said that all along.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17No, brilliant, Anna. To be clear about where we are now -
0:14:17 > 0:14:19is Carol actually contracted?
0:14:19 > 0:14:20Well, exactly, yes.
0:14:20 > 0:14:22Is Carol actually contracted?
0:14:22 > 0:14:24I mean, I've spent the last two days on the phone
0:14:24 > 0:14:26to her agents trying to sell them the idea of Alan Titchmarsh
0:14:26 > 0:14:29as an A-lister, and to Alan's agents trying to sell them the idea
0:14:29 > 0:14:32of Carol as a, you know - trying to sell them the idea of Carol.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35Oh, no, no, brilliant Lucy, well done, you. Yeah, lovely Lucy.
0:14:35 > 0:14:37So is Carol actually contracted?
0:14:37 > 0:14:38Well, I mean, not legally, no.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41OK, well, that's something. No, but morally... Brilliant.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44She's coming in this morning, and after everything we've said to her...
0:14:44 > 0:14:48Oh, yes, no, no, brilliant. No, no, absolutely. Very strong.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50So listen, from the outside,
0:14:50 > 0:14:54as someone who hasn't been involved in this at all, I, look,
0:14:54 > 0:14:57I'll back you guys whatever you decide to do, OK,
0:14:57 > 0:14:58so just take that as read.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02I'm not sure quite how thrilled Tony will be with the idea
0:15:02 > 0:15:04that we've got Clare Balding...
0:15:04 > 0:15:08so that's Dame Clare Balding, OK?
0:15:08 > 0:15:11So keen to do a BBC show that she's had the,
0:15:11 > 0:15:13the ITV schedule bent out of shape in order to do it,
0:15:13 > 0:15:14and we're saying to her,
0:15:14 > 0:15:17"You know what, Clare? Thanks, but we're going to go with someone else."
0:15:17 > 0:15:21I don't think she's actually, like, a Dame? Yes, well...
0:15:21 > 0:15:24She's like some other... Yeah, yeah. What the hell do I know, but I guess
0:15:24 > 0:15:26all I'm saying is that if you do have to make a choice
0:15:26 > 0:15:29between one or the other, then it probably has to be Clare.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31Yes. Right, fine. I mean, doesn't it?
0:15:31 > 0:15:33BOTH: Uh-uh.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36The fact is, it's appointment-to-view television.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38I've said that all along.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41OK, can I say right now, I'm not telling Carol? Yeah, lovely Carol.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43There's absolutely no way I'm going to do that. No, sure.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46It's not fair to her and given what's happened, I really think this
0:15:46 > 0:15:49should come from someone at a senior level. Oh, no, absolutely, Lucy.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51That is absolutely up to you guys.
0:15:51 > 0:15:54I've already said what I think. Yeah, lovely Clare.
0:15:54 > 0:15:55Brilliant.
0:15:57 > 0:16:02So iamfletcherbbc just got re-tweeted by Danni Minogue.
0:16:02 > 0:16:03Right. Thank you.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06I thought you might want to know. Is that good?
0:16:06 > 0:16:09Good? It's like instant penetration in the gay community. It's huge.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11I suppose that's something of a first for Radio 4.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15You mention Carol Vorderman as well, you practically hit gay oil here.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17Back up in Salford, it's now nearly time
0:16:17 > 0:16:21for Ian's unavoidable interview on Woman's Hour with Jenni Murray.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24I don't want to worry you, but I just picked up an e-mail from mission control.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26Right. I'm not being funny or anything,
0:16:26 > 0:16:29but I think we might have a bit of a situation on our hands here.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31What, a situation? Yes, exactly, Ian.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34What sort of a situation? Like I say, I don't want to be negative
0:16:34 > 0:16:37but this feels to me like it has the makings of a major fuck-up.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39Right. OK. So...
0:16:39 > 0:16:41Hi. Hi, yes. Still a few more minutes to go,
0:16:41 > 0:16:43but now might be a good time
0:16:43 > 0:16:45to walk you into the studio, Ian, if that's good for you?
0:16:45 > 0:16:47Right. Yes, of course that's...
0:16:47 > 0:16:50Great. Right, no, yes, yes, great. Cool.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01Stop all the clocks. It's TV's Carol Vorderman.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03Yes, this is Simon Harwood.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05Oh, no, really, Izzy. Carol doesn't care who I am.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08She's Carol Vorderman, for God's sake. Simon Harwood.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11Hello, Simon. So is Izzy looking after you OK? Oh, yes.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13Yes, she's good, isn't she? She certainly is.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16Tragically, I'm just on my way to a bloody meeting with His Tonyship,
0:17:16 > 0:17:19the Lord Director General, otherwise I'd find some excuse to stay.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21But I couldn't go without saying hi. I'd never forgive myself.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23Well, it's nice to meet you.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25Fabulous to have you in the building, finally.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27So good luck in there.
0:17:27 > 0:17:28Thank you.
0:17:28 > 0:17:30Don't take any nonsense from anyone.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34Don't worry, I won't. Excellent work. Carry on, everyone, brilliant.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37Carol, hi. Hi. Lucy.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40Yes, of course. Hi, Lucy. And Anna, of course.
0:17:40 > 0:17:41Hi, Anna. Carol, hi.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44Really nice to see you again. You too, for sure. And David, of course.
0:17:44 > 0:17:47For various reasons, whether they know it yet or not,
0:17:47 > 0:17:50this is going to be a decisive meeting for all those involved,
0:17:50 > 0:17:52especially for those who don't know it yet.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54Have to say, it's very funky in here, isn't it?
0:17:54 > 0:17:56Well, it is, really, yes.
0:17:56 > 0:17:57It's not how I remember it -
0:17:57 > 0:17:59all the crumbling corridors that led nowhere.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get used to this. No.
0:18:03 > 0:18:04For Lucy, Anna and David,
0:18:04 > 0:18:08their task is to find a way of breaking the bad news to Carol
0:18:08 > 0:18:11in such a way that it doesn't sound like a giant and protracted cock-up.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14Plus, I suppose this is exactly the kind of series
0:18:14 > 0:18:17that the BBC should be making. Exactly. Yes, good. It so is.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20So, I mean, Anna, maybe we should... Maybe you can bring Carol up to speed
0:18:20 > 0:18:22with exactly where we're up to with things?
0:18:22 > 0:18:25No, sure. Because there have been one or two, erm... KNOCK AT DOOR
0:18:25 > 0:18:28Sorry, everyone, excuse me. No, that's OK, Jack.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30You know, your car's here. OK, thanks.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33And a message from Lord Patten's office - he's ready when you are.
0:18:33 > 0:18:34OK, thanks. Wow. Ah, yes.
0:18:34 > 0:18:36Get you. I am so sorry,
0:18:36 > 0:18:39I'm going to have to go, I'm afraid. Sounds like you are.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43The fact is, I'm supposed to be at this BAFTA thing. Lucky you.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45Horrible timing. Yes.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48But I wanted to be here to at least say hi to you,
0:18:48 > 0:18:50so I guess that's something. Now, enjoy the...
0:18:50 > 0:18:54You know, enjoy your water and let's talk soon, OK?
0:18:54 > 0:18:56Fantastic. I'll see you soon.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59Bye now. Bye. Bye, Anna.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10Right, then.
0:19:10 > 0:19:11Yes.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16And with me now is the BBC's new head of values, Ian Fletcher.
0:19:16 > 0:19:17Ian, welcome to Woman's Hour.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20It's very good to be here, Jenni, thank you.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22We haven't got time for this. I need to know from you now
0:19:22 > 0:19:25what Ian Fletcher can and cannot say to Jenni Murray live on air now,
0:19:25 > 0:19:29because that is what has happened here. Like, three million re-tweets. Like major, major crapfest.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36Meanwhile, back in London, with all hands on deck,
0:19:36 > 0:19:39another thing is about to happen. Will...
0:19:39 > 0:19:41Yeah, hi... Oh, hi. You busy? What, now? Yes. No.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45Could you do something for me? Yeah, OK. It's important. That's OK.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47I'd do it myself but I can't be too far away from...
0:19:47 > 0:19:49Erm... Doesn't matter, it's complicated. OK, cool.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53Basically, could you go down to reception and meet Clare Balding? Yeah. You know who she is?
0:19:53 > 0:19:55Yeah, I know her, yeah. Horses. Right.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58She's down there now, so could you bring her up here? OK.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01But I don't really have time to explain it, we're in a bit of a...
0:20:01 > 0:20:04Basically, could you - without making it obvious -
0:20:04 > 0:20:07could you delay her getting up here for as long as you possibly can?
0:20:07 > 0:20:08OK, no worries.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11Basically, we have to get Carol Vorderman out of the building
0:20:11 > 0:20:13before she gets up here. OK, good.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16Are you sure you're OK with that? Yeah. With what?
0:20:16 > 0:20:18With everything I just said to you. Oh, yeah, yeah.
0:20:18 > 0:20:19No, that's cool, yeah.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22Really, I will love you for the rest of my life. OK, cool.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31As we've been hearing, there's been a great deal in the media
0:20:31 > 0:20:33about the Sally Wingate case. Of, course, yes.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36A lot of it, I have to say, not very complimentary
0:20:36 > 0:20:38about the role the BBC has played in this. Oh, no, look.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40Of course, I'm aware of that, Jenni,
0:20:40 > 0:20:42it's very much part of my job to be aware of it.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46Because there are those who say this case is far from an isolated one
0:20:46 > 0:20:48and that it's part of a worrying trend.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51Well... You're Head Of Values. Absolutely, yes.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53Well, is the BBC sexist or ageist
0:20:53 > 0:20:56in the way it treats its female presenters? Right...
0:20:56 > 0:20:58Perhaps even both? Right, yes.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10I mean, obviously I'll talk to your agent and we can sort out some kind of... Oh, definitely.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23Apparently, the most common last word the pilots say before they crash...
0:21:23 > 0:21:25No, please just shut up.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27Yeah, OK. Yes, please shut up, David. Yeah.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34No, get off, I am going to, this has got to...
0:21:34 > 0:21:36We've just been retweeted by Enrique Iglesias.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38He absolutely cannot mention Carol Vord...
0:21:38 > 0:21:41..Younger women just there to look good but it's the men,
0:21:41 > 0:21:44and let's face it, often older men, who are taken seriously.
0:21:44 > 0:21:45Well, here again, I have to say...
0:21:45 > 0:21:48That's seven million people all over the world expecting this to...
0:21:48 > 0:21:52I'm sorry, I'm not going to let you, I'm sorry, get off.
0:21:52 > 0:21:53..any opportunity we can behind the scenes,
0:21:53 > 0:21:58and indeed in front of the scenes where it's perhaps more visible, to move beyond the old stereotypes.
0:21:58 > 0:22:01But specifically... Yes. Because generalisations are all very well...
0:22:01 > 0:22:02Absolutely, yes.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04I know, I know.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07I don't know, absolutely no idea.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09No, just arrived. Still in reception.
0:22:09 > 0:22:13I just got a tweet off Gabby about five minutes ago.
0:22:13 > 0:22:14Something about Carol Vorderman.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16And since then, it's just gone absolutely crazy.
0:22:16 > 0:22:20Back in Reception at New Broadcasting House, Clare Balding,
0:22:20 > 0:22:23who as an OBE, has half a million Twitter followers herself,
0:22:23 > 0:22:25has arrived, on the phone to her agent.
0:22:25 > 0:22:27Fi, I've got to go. I'll call you when I know stuff. OK?
0:22:27 > 0:22:29Yep, all right, bye. Bye-bye.
0:22:29 > 0:22:31Hi, Clare? Yes. Hi.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34Yeah, hi, yeah, cool. I'm Will, so I'm kind of like an intern?
0:22:34 > 0:22:35Great, shall we go in?
0:22:35 > 0:22:38Cool, yeah, so - can I get you a coffee or something?
0:22:38 > 0:22:41No, no, no, I'm fine, thanks. Cool, or, like, a slice of apple tart?
0:22:41 > 0:22:42Apple tart?
0:22:42 > 0:22:44Yeah, I don't know, it could be anything.
0:22:44 > 0:22:46No, really, I'm fine. Shall we...
0:22:47 > 0:22:50Yeah, cool, yeah, no, cool, yeah, no worries.
0:22:50 > 0:22:52How are you? How am I?
0:22:52 > 0:22:54Yeah, I just mean - yeah.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56I'm...fine, thanks. Cool.
0:22:56 > 0:23:00You know, I've got a pass and everything... Cool, yeah, that's cool, yeah, no... Cool.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04Just... I love horses. My sister had one.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06Great. Yeah, a really big one.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Lovely. I used to have to feed it some mornings
0:23:08 > 0:23:09but then it, like, got out?
0:23:11 > 0:23:14IAN ON RADIO: 'No, what I would say is we're always striving to be better
0:23:14 > 0:23:18'and to learn from our... from experience, and if there is a general lesson to be learned here,
0:23:18 > 0:23:21'we're absolutely committed to finding out what that lesson is
0:23:21 > 0:23:23'and learning it going forward.'
0:23:23 > 0:23:24Who is this idiot?
0:23:24 > 0:23:27Yeah, I don't know him. Are we moving? Yeah, say again?
0:23:27 > 0:23:29Are we actually going anywhere? Yeah, OK. Cool.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31'..very interesting question, Jenni,
0:23:31 > 0:23:34'and we're hoping that rationality, not downsizing in that sense,
0:23:34 > 0:23:38'but I think in the sense of what is the rationale? What is the BBC about? Where are we going?
0:23:38 > 0:23:40'Where have we been, and how do we get there?'
0:23:40 > 0:23:41'Doors opening.'
0:23:47 > 0:23:50Hey, Clare. Right.
0:23:51 > 0:23:52Fine. OK.
0:23:52 > 0:23:57Clare, hi, can I get you a coffee or something? No, you know what? I don't want a bloody coffee. Thanks.
0:23:57 > 0:23:58No, she doesn't want that. Right. OK.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00OK, cool, yeah, no worries.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02'Lift going down.'
0:24:05 > 0:24:06Tracey, hi.
0:24:08 > 0:24:09Not great.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13No, no. Really not great. I'd like to talk about the practicalities
0:24:13 > 0:24:15of this on the ground, if I may?
0:24:15 > 0:24:17Yes, of course. Yes.
0:24:17 > 0:24:18Vor-der-man. Is that confirmed?
0:24:18 > 0:24:22Yes. Vor-der-man.
0:24:23 > 0:24:24Right, yes.
0:24:24 > 0:24:28What exactly will that mean in practical terms? Right.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30I suppose what I'm asking is,
0:24:30 > 0:24:32how will we know when you've learned that lesson?
0:24:32 > 0:24:35No, of course, that's a very good question and you're right to ask it, Jenni.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39For instance - I've got to be a bit careful about what I say here
0:24:39 > 0:24:42because I think we are actually announcing this later today, but...
0:24:42 > 0:24:43..derman. Clare Balding either!
0:24:43 > 0:24:46For those who don't know, that's a show with Alan Titchmarsh.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Exactly, yes, and without giving too much away...
0:24:49 > 0:24:51Don't mention it! Yes. Talk about anything!
0:24:51 > 0:24:54One example that's in my mind at the moment because, as I say,
0:24:54 > 0:24:56we are announcing it later today...
0:24:56 > 0:24:58I am actually quite strong.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01..I am allowed to say at this stage, in fact, I'm going to say it anyway,
0:25:01 > 0:25:04we've been talking to Sally Wingate,
0:25:04 > 0:25:07who, by the way, is one of our most experienced regional women -
0:25:07 > 0:25:09women presenters, I mean, obviously.
0:25:09 > 0:25:10We've been talking to her
0:25:10 > 0:25:12about the possibility of her working on that show,
0:25:12 > 0:25:15presenting alongside, as you say, with the great Alan Titchmarsh,
0:25:15 > 0:25:19and I have to say, without giving too much away, that we're very much hoping that will happen.
0:25:19 > 0:25:22Well, if... And of course in terms of the age issue,
0:25:22 > 0:25:24if we could pull that off, that would give them
0:25:24 > 0:25:29a combined on-screen presenting age of something north of 120 years old, which is a very exciting thought.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31So no, yes, we're particularly pleased about that,
0:25:31 > 0:25:32and so no, yes, that's all good.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52Brilliant. I just felt somebody had to take a decision.
0:25:52 > 0:25:53No, brilliant, brilliant.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55It's been a long day.
0:25:55 > 0:25:56But by the end of it,
0:25:56 > 0:25:59Ian has made the necessary journey from Salford to London
0:25:59 > 0:26:01in order to get back to New Broadcasting House.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04Between you and me, this is how this should have turned out
0:26:04 > 0:26:05from the beginning. Well, the...
0:26:05 > 0:26:09Honestly, I've just left Alan and Tony, literally skipping around the office together.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12Right, good. I mean, I haven't spoken to Anna yet. Oh, Anna.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15I hope she's OK about the way things... Well, what do you think?
0:26:15 > 0:26:18I mean... I'd say that Anna's come out of this really rather gorgeously. Right.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21Which you have to say is one of Anna's great strengths. Right, yes.
0:26:21 > 0:26:24I can't tell you, all this stuff about why the hell do we need a Head of Values?
0:26:24 > 0:26:28Yes, w...what? Like Tony was saying, you know, now finally, we know.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31Right. Just brilliant, brilliant. Brilliant.
0:26:31 > 0:26:32For Ian, it's Friday evening
0:26:32 > 0:26:36and at the end of another week as the BBC's new Head of Values,
0:26:36 > 0:26:39all that's left now is to finally get back to his flat.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43But on the other hand, Sally Wingate is a fresh, new face and... well,
0:26:43 > 0:26:46OK, she's new anyway, and we just thought the idea of Alan on BBC One
0:26:46 > 0:26:50with someone who wasn't either Clare Balding, or in fact, Carol Vorderman
0:26:50 > 0:26:52was just a really exciting way to go with the whole...
0:26:54 > 0:26:57No, right. I mean, so maybe the thing to do, then, is for Alan
0:26:57 > 0:26:59to have a think about it and then, you know...
0:27:01 > 0:27:04No, OK. Well, obviously that's a different way of looking at it,
0:27:04 > 0:27:06I mean, I wouldn't use either of those words, but...
0:27:08 > 0:27:11Right, OK, no, yes, well, thank you for phoning, Donna,
0:27:11 > 0:27:14and thanks for putting us in the picture, so...
0:27:14 > 0:27:17Yes, and as I say, we're still absolutely...
0:27:17 > 0:27:20Yes, OK, bye, then, Donna, thank you, you too, OK, bye.
0:27:20 > 0:27:21Bye.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24Right. Hi. Hi.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27How's it going? Fine, yes. Fine. Right.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30'Lift going down.'
0:27:32 > 0:27:35Sorry, I really wasn't listening. No. But was that...
0:27:35 > 0:27:37Yes, that was Donna, yes, Alan Titchmarsh's agent.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39Right. So... Yes, he's pulled out too now, yes.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41Right. So yes, pretty much a clean sweep.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44I'm sorry if... No, that's OK. I hope I haven't... No, no.
0:27:44 > 0:27:46I was in a bit of a tight spot. Yes.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49I'm afraid it all got a bit... No, really, don't worry, this is quite normal.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51Really? Is it? Yes, this is a pretty ordinary day.
0:27:51 > 0:27:54Right. I have to say, it didn't feel very ordinary to me.
0:27:54 > 0:27:56No, but it will do soon. Don't worry, really.
0:27:56 > 0:27:57Right, well. Yes.
0:27:58 > 0:28:00'Doors opening.'
0:28:05 > 0:28:08Right, well, another week. Yes.
0:28:08 > 0:28:09Which way do you... I'm Camden, yes.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12Right. Or Kentish Town, really, depends who I'm talking to. Right.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14What about you? Err, Maida Vale, yes. Right.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17No other way of really saying that. No.
0:28:17 > 0:28:19Well, see you on Monday for more, I suppose.
0:28:19 > 0:28:21Yes. More of what?
0:28:21 > 0:28:23I don't know, more of this, I suppose. Yes.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25See you Monday, then, yes. Right, bye. Bye.