0:00:01 > 0:00:06I've fought for consumer rights for years, but some companies are not getting the message.
0:00:06 > 0:00:10The big companies don't look after their customers.
0:00:10 > 0:00:16Day in, day out, thousands of you are being taken for a ride and it's always the same old things -
0:00:16 > 0:00:19shoddy products, the small print and bad customer service.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23Customer service is most important for some people.
0:00:23 > 0:00:27Some firms are driving you barmy, causing you sleepless nights
0:00:27 > 0:00:30and can make you feel like you're the ones to blame.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35But don't despair because I'll take them on to make sure you don't get done.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57And coming up on today's show...
0:00:57 > 0:01:03the horror of thousands of pounds missing from your bank account and the bank blames it on you.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08Where has it gone? Where am I going to get it back from?
0:01:08 > 0:01:12How one man's fight won a pot of money for the whole community.
0:01:12 > 0:01:17The total refund was £223,000.
0:01:17 > 0:01:23And my team hits the streets to find out if we can help you get a grip on your consumer rights.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26Oh, that's good to know.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33There are four vital numbers in any modern-day life
0:01:33 > 0:01:39and these four digits enable us to pay for anything from petrol to pork.
0:01:39 > 0:01:45I'm talking about our PIN numbers and used in conjunction with the chip in our bank cards,
0:01:45 > 0:01:48they've been protecting our savings since 2004.
0:01:50 > 0:01:56Now, eight years later, Chip and PIN may not be as trustworthy as the banks would have us believe.
0:02:00 > 0:02:04Maybe our money isn't as safe as it should be.
0:02:05 > 0:02:10And someone who has found this out the hard way and to her great cost
0:02:10 > 0:02:12is council officer and single mum, Audrey Bruce.
0:02:12 > 0:02:17Londoner Audrey has been a loyal customer of Barclays Bank for 22 years
0:02:17 > 0:02:23and has had a number of accounts with them, including savings and a current account.
0:02:24 > 0:02:28In all the time I've banked with Barclays, I've never had a problem.
0:02:28 > 0:02:33But in September 2009, that was about to change.
0:02:33 > 0:02:38I went to the cash point to use my card, but when I put the PIN in,
0:02:38 > 0:02:42it wasn't taking it and it said that the PIN was incorrect.
0:02:42 > 0:02:47I came home and called Barclays to find out what had happened to my card.
0:02:47 > 0:02:52That's when I found out transactions were being done on my account that I wasn't aware of.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55But the biggest shock was still to come.
0:02:55 > 0:03:02A staggering £16,700 had been withdrawn from her account without her knowing.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06£6,000 was done over the counter via Chip and PIN.
0:03:07 > 0:03:14£9,800 was spent in a shop and three ATM withdrawals of £300 were done.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18I thought, "Where has it gone? Where am I going to get it back from?"
0:03:18 > 0:03:20Crikey! What a massive loss!
0:03:20 > 0:03:26Still reeling from the fact that such a large amount of money had been taken without her knowledge
0:03:26 > 0:03:32and without her losing her bank card, Audrey couldn't believe that the bank had not been in touch.
0:03:32 > 0:03:38I felt upset because no-one had contacted me when the first transaction was done,
0:03:38 > 0:03:43then they let another £9,800 go through without contacting me.
0:03:43 > 0:03:47Barclays immediately requested Audrey to cut up her debit card.
0:03:47 > 0:03:53She felt confident Barclays would root out the truth behind the missing money and give her a refund.
0:03:53 > 0:03:58But far from sending her the reimbursement she felt she was entitled to,
0:03:58 > 0:04:01in January 2010, the bank delivered her a bombshell.
0:04:01 > 0:04:07Barclays sent a letter to say that it was the original Chip and PIN that's been used
0:04:07 > 0:04:11and they consider all transactions were done by myself.
0:04:11 > 0:04:17I wasn't very happy when they told me that, then I started to ask questions to say I wanted proof
0:04:17 > 0:04:21of the receipts to show the transactions,
0:04:21 > 0:04:27why wasn't I contacted and also I wanted to see the CCTV footage.
0:04:27 > 0:04:32Barclays pinned their evidence down to security questions answered correctly
0:04:32 > 0:04:36during the transaction in the bank, but Audrey had her own evidence.
0:04:36 > 0:04:42I sent information to show where I was at the times of the transactions,
0:04:42 > 0:04:44but it was just dismissed.
0:04:44 > 0:04:49It's time to meet Audrey and see if I can clarify some details.
0:04:50 > 0:04:56Audrey Bruce has contacted me because she's got a problem that she's not been able to sort out,
0:04:56 > 0:04:58so I'm here to see if I can help.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04'Now, first things first.
0:05:04 > 0:05:10'I want to tackle the tricky issue of how £6,000 in cash was withdrawn from Audrey's account in person
0:05:10 > 0:05:12'by somebody else.'
0:05:12 > 0:05:16If that wasn't you, who could it have been?
0:05:16 > 0:05:19- Throw some...- I haven't got a clue who it could have been
0:05:19 > 0:05:24- because I don't write my PIN down, it's memorised, I haven't got it in my phone.- Right.
0:05:24 > 0:05:31And as soon as I receive the PIN identification from Barclays, I tear them up straight away.
0:05:31 > 0:05:36There's no way someone could have a PIN number, but it says "counter withdrawal" here,
0:05:36 > 0:05:42so somebody would have had to go in and somebody would have had to pretend to be you,
0:05:42 > 0:05:46and the cashier there would have asked some security questions,
0:05:46 > 0:05:51possibly would have asked them to show some identification.
0:05:51 > 0:05:55Have you any idea what identification Barclays requested?
0:05:55 > 0:06:01They said to me that all security questions were passed, for example, my email address was given.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04'According to Barclays, other security measures
0:06:04 > 0:06:09'relating to her home address and a photo ID were also given correctly,
0:06:09 > 0:06:14'which leaves Audrey in no doubt about what her bank thinks of her.'
0:06:14 > 0:06:20Barclays does view me as being guilty because they said in the letter it's the original Chip and PIN,
0:06:20 > 0:06:25either you've used it or you've divulged information to someone else.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28'It seemed doors were being slammed in Audrey's face.
0:06:28 > 0:06:34'Her local MP couldn't help and when she appealed Barclays' decision to the Financial Ombudsman Service,
0:06:34 > 0:06:37'she felt hopeful of their support.'
0:06:37 > 0:06:43They investigated and said as far as they're concerned, Barclays don't have to repay the money.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46'That was obviously a bitter blow.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50'I'm beginning to realise that this case could be huge
0:06:50 > 0:06:54'and I need to get my head around the massive pile of paperwork.
0:06:54 > 0:07:00'It seems that £9,800 was spent in an audiovisual shop using Audrey's card.'
0:07:00 > 0:07:03Let me throw this at you.
0:07:03 > 0:07:07You know because you've been looking into it. Where were you that day?
0:07:08 > 0:07:13Right, I have got a counter-signed diary
0:07:13 > 0:07:18to show where I was at the times on each transaction.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22- What's this? From an employer? - From work, yeah.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26- Your boss can guarantee you were at those places you say you were?- Yeah.
0:07:26 > 0:07:32- Have you ever lent your card to anybody?- No.- Has anybody ever stolen your card?- No.
0:07:32 > 0:07:36- Have you ever given your PIN number to anybody?- No. - What's the capital of Mongolia?!
0:07:36 > 0:07:40- You are adamant this is not you? - Yeah.- OK.
0:07:40 > 0:07:44'But when it comes to the £6,000 cash withdrawal over the counter,
0:07:44 > 0:07:48'surely there has to be a record of that.'
0:07:48 > 0:07:54Every time somebody withdraws money, the cashier has to fill out a slip, and they couldn't find it?
0:07:54 > 0:08:00- Correct.- There should have been a receipt and the bank can't find it. - I've been asking for it - nothing.
0:08:00 > 0:08:06That's something I'll push them for. What about CCTV? All banks film the second you walk through the door.
0:08:06 > 0:08:13I asked for the CCTV footage and I've been told it's been sent to my local police station.
0:08:13 > 0:08:19'But so far, Audrey has not been given the chance to review this vital piece of evidence
0:08:19 > 0:08:24'which could stand between her and the bank admitting they might have got it wrong.'
0:08:24 > 0:08:31This will be an extremely hard job for me to try and prove otherwise, but it hinges on CCTV footage.
0:08:31 > 0:08:35They've got it. The police hopefully have got a copy as well.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38- We want to see it. Hell of a mess, though.- It sure is.
0:08:38 > 0:08:42- Cheers, Audrey.- Thank you. - Do you want to show me out?- OK.
0:08:45 > 0:08:51I know from previous experience that proving someone hasn't used your card is always a nightmare.
0:08:51 > 0:08:58I've got a lot of paperwork to get through, but I already sense this will be a difficult one to solve.
0:08:59 > 0:09:01Oh, strewth!
0:09:01 > 0:09:07Audrey's case is big and complicated and Barclays could play hardball with me,
0:09:07 > 0:09:13but you wouldn't believe how many people are in exactly the same position as Audrey
0:09:13 > 0:09:18where they're claiming they've been robbed through their bank accounts,
0:09:18 > 0:09:20but the bank is refusing to believe them.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24One that caught my eye is another Barclays customer.
0:09:24 > 0:09:29Single mum Dee Mann from Berkshire is disputing £1,800
0:09:29 > 0:09:33which was taken out of her account without her consent
0:09:33 > 0:09:35over a 20-day period in June 2011.
0:09:35 > 0:09:42Now, unlike Audrey, Dee admits that although her card details might not have always been 100% secure,
0:09:42 > 0:09:48she is adamant that her card has been in her constant possession and she is completely mystified
0:09:48 > 0:09:52by how the money was taken and since her complaint,
0:09:52 > 0:09:57Barclays has refused to refund her missing money and will not tell her why.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01Now let's just take stock here.
0:10:01 > 0:10:06Both complainants insist they did not take the disputed money out of their account.
0:10:06 > 0:10:12In both cases, Barclays say they have proof it was the original Chip and PIN card that was used.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16But both of the customers say they have not lost their card
0:10:16 > 0:10:20and most importantly, both customers have asked
0:10:20 > 0:10:25to see further details of these disputed transactions and the evidence Barclays say they have,
0:10:25 > 0:10:27but have told them nothing.
0:10:27 > 0:10:33However you look at this, this is terrible customer service. Right, time to make a call.
0:10:35 > 0:10:43Right now, my vibes are telling me this Barclays case is not going to be straightforward.
0:10:43 > 0:10:48I think there's going to be lots of toing and froing and lots of strong words.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50Let's give them a try.
0:10:50 > 0:10:56'I'm going to start with Customer Relations, so I can get the correct contact details.'
0:10:56 > 0:11:00My name is Dominic Littlewood. I'm calling from the BBC.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03It's about a customer who's got a problem at the moment
0:11:03 > 0:11:07and is in dispute with yourselves. Who do I speak to about that?
0:11:07 > 0:11:13'Apparently, I need to speak to a team leader, but there are two of them.'
0:11:13 > 0:11:16Is it possible to speak to one of them?
0:11:16 > 0:11:21'I'm left hanging on the line. Still, it's a chance to check up on some paperwork.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24'But boy, oh, boy, do they keep me waiting!'
0:11:24 > 0:11:26Nine minutes.
0:11:26 > 0:11:30I could have boiled three eggs by now.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34'Dearie me! If every question takes this long to answer,
0:11:34 > 0:11:38'I could be collecting my pension before I resolve this one.'
0:11:38 > 0:11:43Considering this is Barclays, I'm getting passed from pillar to post.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46They do not want to put me through to the right department.
0:11:46 > 0:11:50They say they want to review it before they speak to me.
0:11:50 > 0:11:55Speak to me first, I'll tell you about the case, then review it.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57'Seems logical to me, but what do I know?
0:11:57 > 0:12:03'Finally, Barclays get back to me and give me the correct contact details I'm after.'
0:12:03 > 0:12:08That took me 13 minutes there just to get an email address,
0:12:08 > 0:12:12so I can send over a consent form to Barclays to say
0:12:12 > 0:12:17this person has asked me to deal with this complaint on their behalf.
0:12:17 > 0:12:22Even then, they wouldn't put me through to the right department. I knew this would be tough.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26Sometimes I like tough ones. You can't always have it easy.
0:12:26 > 0:12:31This investigation raises one important question - how secure is a Chip and PIN card?
0:12:31 > 0:12:35Barclays say "very", but not everyone agrees.
0:12:35 > 0:12:41The PIN is carried from the PIN pad to the card and the card data is carried from the card to the PIN pad.
0:12:41 > 0:12:45If you've got the card data and PIN, you can clone a card and steal money.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52Consumer law can be very confusing.
0:12:52 > 0:12:57You've got your Sale of Goods Act, distance selling right to return. I could go on.
0:12:57 > 0:13:03But knowing just a few of these laws can save you money and a lot of hassle.
0:13:03 > 0:13:09My research team have been out on the streets, armed with questions to put to you, the buying public,
0:13:09 > 0:13:14to find out if you know your consumer rights from the wrongs.
0:13:17 > 0:13:23Today we're in Birmingham, so let's see how consumer-savvy you are in the Midlands.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26My first question to you lot...
0:13:26 > 0:13:32"Your flight from London to Paris is delayed overnight. You've travelled from Brighton for the flight.
0:13:32 > 0:13:37"The airline ask you to go home and come back the next day. Can they?"
0:13:37 > 0:13:41- I'd say...- I'd say they probably can, even though it's unfair.
0:13:41 > 0:13:47- I don't see why they should put you up for the night. - Depends on the reason.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51I'd say no, but... they probably are in their rights.
0:13:51 > 0:13:53All three wrong, I'm afraid.
0:13:53 > 0:13:59You all shouldn't back down so easily. The airline must provide overnight accommodation,
0:13:59 > 0:14:04meals, refreshments and free phone calls. This is European legislation.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07Next, from airline to pipeline.
0:14:09 > 0:14:15"You forget to pay your gas bill one month and at the end of the month the gas company disconnects you.
0:14:15 > 0:14:19- "Can they do this?" - I would say no.- I say no as well.
0:14:19 > 0:14:24If you don't pay, you get cut off. That's what happens.
0:14:24 > 0:14:28So, yes, they can do it. It's breaking the contract.
0:14:28 > 0:14:32There's been a lot of bad press for them, so probably yeah.
0:14:32 > 0:14:37- Two out of three wrong on that one. - Oh, really?- Oh, yes, mate.
0:14:37 > 0:14:43If you don't pay your gas bill within 28 days, you risk getting disconnected,
0:14:43 > 0:14:47but you must be given at least seven days' notice of disconnection.
0:14:47 > 0:14:52Some suppliers may act as early as 10 working days from the bill date,
0:14:52 > 0:14:58but your fuel supplier can't cut you off without sending you a disconnection notice first.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00I didn't know that.
0:15:00 > 0:15:04You learn something new every day. And finally...
0:15:04 > 0:15:09"You order fish pie at a restaurant. When it arrives, it isn't hot in the middle.
0:15:09 > 0:15:15"The waiter offers to cook it a little bit more, but you send it back and refuse to pay for it.
0:15:15 > 0:15:21"The waiter tells you you have to pay for it because you have breached the terms of the contract
0:15:21 > 0:15:24"within the restaurant. Is he right?" Absolutely not!
0:15:24 > 0:15:28- I'd have said no!- No. - I wouldn't have paid for it.
0:15:28 > 0:15:33No, you don't pay the full price if you haven't eaten it. You don't.
0:15:33 > 0:15:37- All correct that time. - Yay!- Hurray!
0:15:37 > 0:15:41Yes, indeed. That's cause for celebration.
0:15:41 > 0:15:47By law, the restaurant has an obligation to prepare food with reasonable care and skill.
0:15:47 > 0:15:51Serving a lukewarm fish pie does not fulfil this,
0:15:51 > 0:15:56so you can ask for a replacement dish or to deduct the cost of the food from your bill.
0:15:56 > 0:16:02OK, you lot. That wasn't too bad. You've been brushing up on your consumer rights.
0:16:02 > 0:16:06Knowing them will stop you getting done.
0:16:10 > 0:16:17'I'm looking into a couple of similar cases. Londoner Audrey Bruce and Dee Mann from Berkshire
0:16:17 > 0:16:23'both had money withdrawn from their Barclays bank accounts, apparently using their bank cards,
0:16:23 > 0:16:27'but they are both adamant the cards were never out of their possession.'
0:16:27 > 0:16:30I feel I've been unfairly treated by Barclays.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33I'm not negligent with my card.
0:16:33 > 0:16:39Audrey even had proof that she could not have carried out a disputed withdrawal made at the bank,
0:16:39 > 0:16:46but this was not enough for Barclays. They refused to reimburse Dee her £1,800
0:16:46 > 0:16:49and Audrey her £16,700.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55By taking on Barclays, I really am taking on the big boys.
0:16:55 > 0:17:01Last year, in these economic troubled times, they declared profits of nearly £6 billion.
0:17:01 > 0:17:07You don't make that sort of profit by paying out when you don't have to.
0:17:07 > 0:17:13Barclays may be a big boy, but size should never matter when it comes to fighting for your rights.
0:17:13 > 0:17:17However, it pays to know what you're up against.
0:17:17 > 0:17:21Barclays has been in the banking business for over 300 years
0:17:21 > 0:17:25and operates in over 50 countries, employing more than 140,000 people.
0:17:27 > 0:17:32In 2011, in a Great British customer survey of over 12,000 people,
0:17:32 > 0:17:39Barclays was beaten by only one other bank as the worst customer service provider in the UK.
0:17:39 > 0:17:46Gordon Bennett! After 300 years in the business, you'd think they could do better than that!
0:17:46 > 0:17:52When it comes to Chip and PIN fraud, Barclays is standing firm in their belief in their own security,
0:17:52 > 0:17:59but I've come to meet Ross Anderson, Professor of Security Engineering at Cambridge University Computer Lab,
0:17:59 > 0:18:04who is just the man to tell me how safe he thinks the card system is.
0:18:04 > 0:18:08- Hello, Professor.- Hi. - This looks very interesting.
0:18:08 > 0:18:15This is an ATM that we bought second-hand. We've been taking it to pieces to see what goes on.
0:18:15 > 0:18:19- It gives you a chance to look at the internal mechanisms.- Exactly.
0:18:19 > 0:18:23This is the encryption unit that sits behind the PIN pad.
0:18:23 > 0:18:28This is where a lot of the secret stuff goes on, where your PIN is transmitted to the bank.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32So if we look at this one, for example,
0:18:32 > 0:18:39this turns out to be the link where the PIN is carried from the PIN pad to the card
0:18:39 > 0:18:46and data from the card to the PIN pad. If you have that, you can make a clone card and steal money.
0:18:46 > 0:18:53- That leads me to why I'm here - Audrey Bruce. Have you got somewhere where we can chat?- Sure.
0:18:53 > 0:18:57- Let's go through to my lab. - Thank you.
0:18:57 > 0:19:00How secure is chip and PIN?
0:19:00 > 0:19:06Well, if a bank were to refuse to refund money to me on a statement that chip and PIN is secure,
0:19:06 > 0:19:13I'd complain to the police that it was an offence under the Fraud Act, a false and misleading statement.
0:19:13 > 0:19:18I'll put that in my layman's terms. It's certainly not infallible.
0:19:18 > 0:19:23Again and again, when we look into customer complaints, which have been dismissed as ridiculous
0:19:23 > 0:19:30by the banks, we find fraud is going on and that fraud is going on using new mechanisms we haven't heard of,
0:19:30 > 0:19:38and sometimes we even find that the banks already knew of such frauds because they've happened overseas.
0:19:38 > 0:19:44Even more reason for the bank to think twice before being so adamant about Audrey's guilt.
0:19:44 > 0:19:48'And here's something for all of us to think about.'
0:19:48 > 0:19:54I've phoned up the bank before about a transaction I didn't recognise and the first thing they did
0:19:54 > 0:20:00was tell you to cut the card up and destroy it. And I was told to cut through the little chip in it.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04- Is that good advice? - It's very bad advice.
0:20:04 > 0:20:11It means there's no longer the possibility of you coming to us to read the transaction counter
0:20:11 > 0:20:17on the card and to see whether that is consistent with the sequence numbers in the disputed transactions.
0:20:17 > 0:20:24So when people come to us and tell us they have a dispute, we say if you haven't destroyed your card, don't!
0:20:24 > 0:20:29'Wow. Interesting advice which totally contradicts the bank's.
0:20:29 > 0:20:35'But if card cloning has taken place, Ross insists that your chip in your card
0:20:35 > 0:20:40'is the most important piece of evidence that could prove it
0:20:40 > 0:20:46'because the little chip on our cards keeps a record of each transaction in sequence.
0:20:46 > 0:20:52'If there's a transaction not logged on the card, it proves that your card was not the one used.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56'Then all you need are the logs from the bank.'
0:20:56 > 0:21:02As long as the bank releases that information, you could prove that it wasn't your card.
0:21:02 > 0:21:09- Do banks give that out willingly? - In the UK, banks fiercely resist attempts to get raw log data
0:21:09 > 0:21:15because that would open them to independent assessment of the truth or falsity of their claims.
0:21:15 > 0:21:22'The log of all the disputed transactions that the bank holds is something neither Audrey nor Dee has
0:21:22 > 0:21:26'despite asking for it. This is information I need to get hold of.
0:21:26 > 0:21:31'The bank's attitude to us customers needs some care and attention.
0:21:31 > 0:21:35'Come on, guys. Without our money, you'd be out of business.
0:21:35 > 0:21:40'You probably won't be surprised to know that I've got two more cases
0:21:40 > 0:21:44'where banks are refusing to believe the customers were defrauded
0:21:44 > 0:21:48'and they've had to hound the banks for the records they're entitled to.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52'I think we've opened up a can of worms here.
0:21:52 > 0:21:56'In particular, Tanya and Chris Nye from Market Harborough
0:21:56 > 0:22:02'suffered their own banking crisis with Lloyds TSB when just over £200 was withdrawn from their account
0:22:02 > 0:22:08'on one day in November 2011. While they were using their card in Market Harborough on that day,
0:22:08 > 0:22:13'someone was helping themselves to their account over in Coventry.
0:22:13 > 0:22:20'The bank insisted that it was their card that had been used, in spite of the evidence to the contrary
0:22:20 > 0:22:25'and, just like Audrey and Dee, they felt the bank was utterly dismissive of their case.
0:22:25 > 0:22:30- 'But Tanya was not about to give up the fight.'- I was adamant.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34Because I knew that we still had the card
0:22:34 > 0:22:39and ultimately that was proof that we didn't make those transactions,
0:22:39 > 0:22:45we did have a further place to go and would have gone to court. I did not want to let them get away with it.
0:22:45 > 0:22:50Unlike Audrey and Dee, but just as our professor recommended,
0:22:50 > 0:22:56they kept their card and offered it to the bank so information on the chip could be read
0:22:56 > 0:23:03and prove that it was not their card that had been used. But they felt that this, too, was dismissed.
0:23:03 > 0:23:10They didn't want us to be able to prove we didn't make the transactions because they'd have to pay us.
0:23:10 > 0:23:16It's only from our persistence that they eventually paid us because we didn't give up.
0:23:16 > 0:23:22What advice has Tanya got for Audrey and Dee or anyone else in this nightmare situation?
0:23:22 > 0:23:27Do not destroy your debit card as that's the only proof you have
0:23:27 > 0:23:33that you didn't make the transactions. Do not give up until they give you your money back.
0:23:33 > 0:23:36And, if you have to, go to court.
0:23:36 > 0:23:42Good on you both. Your persistence paid off. You knew your rights and the bank buckled.
0:23:42 > 0:23:48When asked for a statement, Lloyds referred us to the UK Cards Association, which is a trade body
0:23:48 > 0:23:51for credit and debit card issuers.
0:23:51 > 0:23:58Counterfeit card fraud losses have decreased by about 70% since chip and PIN was introduced.
0:23:58 > 0:24:02Similarly, fraud in the high street has decreased by two-thirds.
0:24:02 > 0:24:10And lost and stolen card fraud is currently running at its lowest ever level over the last 20 years.
0:24:10 > 0:24:16It's definitely succeeding in doing what it was brought in to do, which is tackle card fraud.
0:24:16 > 0:24:22'I've had a bit of bad news. Barclays has informed me that Dee has told them
0:24:22 > 0:24:26'she has, in the past, shared her PIN number with people she trusted.
0:24:26 > 0:24:32'I'm sure this is something many of us have done, but the banking regulations state that the bank
0:24:32 > 0:24:37'does not have to give a refund if it can prove you are at fault
0:24:37 > 0:24:41'because you failed to protect your card details, PIN or password.
0:24:41 > 0:24:47'So this means Dee was in breach of the bank's terms and conditions and was no longer protected
0:24:47 > 0:24:54'when, as in this case, money was taken from her account without her authority.
0:24:54 > 0:25:01'It may not be the news she wants, but at least now I can tell Dee why her case was turned down.
0:25:01 > 0:25:08'And it's a warning to us all. Never, never, never give out your pin.
0:25:08 > 0:25:13'It could end in some very expensive tears.'
0:25:13 > 0:25:18I've just had the report from the police about Audrey Bruce's case. Listen to this.
0:25:18 > 0:25:25"This matter was investigated thoroughly by police, relying heavily on CCTV footage." Good.
0:25:25 > 0:25:29"Unfortunately, the only CCTV evidence available was from the bank
0:25:29 > 0:25:33"and they were unable to identify who was responsible."
0:25:33 > 0:25:39So if they can't say who was responsible for taking that money out, it means they're assuming
0:25:39 > 0:25:44that Audrey is guilty. That's not how it works in this country.
0:25:44 > 0:25:50You're innocent until proven guilty. Show us the CCTV footage. We'll look and make our own mind up.
0:25:50 > 0:25:54I wonder if I can get it. Right, time to ring Barclays again.
0:25:56 > 0:26:00'This time I get straight through to a press officer.
0:26:00 > 0:26:06'After explaining my aim to get a resolution to these cases, I get down to the nitty gritty
0:26:06 > 0:26:08'of Audrey's dispute.'
0:26:08 > 0:26:11She asked to see the CCTV footage,
0:26:11 > 0:26:13as the police did.
0:26:13 > 0:26:16She was never given that chance.
0:26:16 > 0:26:22'They assure me that they will liaise with their colleagues and, if appropriate, release it. Good.
0:26:22 > 0:26:28'Sounds like I'm getting somewhere. They say they have no reason to doubt the identification documents
0:26:28 > 0:26:32'and security questions given at the counter transaction for £6,000,
0:26:32 > 0:26:37'but I want to know about the security of the PIN.'
0:26:37 > 0:26:42Is there a way anybody can override the PIN element of that chip?
0:26:42 > 0:26:44Are they infallible?
0:26:44 > 0:26:51'They say no, they don't believe there's been any evidence that chip and PIN has been compromised,
0:26:51 > 0:26:55'but we know from Prof Ross that, in theory, this is possible.
0:26:55 > 0:27:01'The press officer goes on to say that although they're not saying Audrey has carried out
0:27:01 > 0:27:05'these disputed transactions, they do believe her card was used,
0:27:05 > 0:27:11'which suggests to them that she has been negligent with her security details, just like Dee Mann,
0:27:11 > 0:27:15'and in that case Audrey is not entitled to a refund.
0:27:15 > 0:27:22'It's not sounding good, but at least they're prepared to pursue the CCTV footage.'
0:27:22 > 0:27:27Thanks. Bye bye. ..Right, that was a 48 minutes and 7 seconds call.
0:27:27 > 0:27:31They're saying it's still a mystery, but as far as they're concerned,
0:27:31 > 0:27:38the women's cards and correct PINS were used, so it'll remain a mystery until we can prove otherwise.
0:27:38 > 0:27:44I did say they had a police report and I'd send it over and then we could chat again.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47So no good news, but no bad news.
0:27:49 > 0:27:55'I'll tell you what. One of the most frustrating things in these cases with Barclays and Lloyds
0:27:55 > 0:28:00'is that getting the transaction logs has proved no easy task.
0:28:00 > 0:28:05'They give exact details of every transaction and, in Audrey's case, there's CCTV footage
0:28:05 > 0:28:12'of a disputed counter withdrawal inside the bank which would give her some vital answers.
0:28:12 > 0:28:18'Stephen Mason is a barrister who specialises in consumer disputes and could be our saving grace
0:28:18 > 0:28:22'when it comes to dealing with the banks. First things first -
0:28:22 > 0:28:26'what are the regulations when it comes to cases like these?'
0:28:26 > 0:28:30Since 2009, we've got the Payment Service Regulations.
0:28:30 > 0:28:35In essence, if there's a dispute between the bank and the customer,
0:28:35 > 0:28:41first of all the customer is liable for the first £50 if, in the end, they are found to be at fault,
0:28:41 > 0:28:46which is fair enough. The customer is also liable if they are negligent
0:28:46 > 0:28:51or, of course, if they are trying to defraud the bank.
0:28:51 > 0:28:57However, if the customer is adamant that it wasn't them, then the bank has a duty to investigate it fully.
0:28:57 > 0:29:02The bank has to prove it was the customer that withdrew the money.
0:29:02 > 0:29:07'That's more like it. The customer gets the benefit of the doubt.
0:29:07 > 0:29:13'But it doesn't seem to help when, as in Audrey's case, the bank seems to be ignoring all requests
0:29:13 > 0:29:18'to hand over the evidence of transaction logs and CCTV footage.
0:29:18 > 0:29:24'First, what should you do if you think you've been defrauded?'
0:29:24 > 0:29:28Time is of the essence. Put your life on hold at least for 24 hours.
0:29:28 > 0:29:33If you've got your card, keep it. Go and look at the ATM machine.
0:29:33 > 0:29:38If there's CCTV, ask for a copy. You can do that under the Data Protection Act.
0:29:38 > 0:29:43Write to your bank for details of your account. Inform the police.
0:29:43 > 0:29:48Also always ensure that even if you have telephone calls with your bank,
0:29:48 > 0:29:52make sure you record the time, date and the name of the person,
0:29:52 > 0:29:58but always, always follow up with a letter sent by recorded delivery. This is crucial.
0:29:58 > 0:30:03'Great advice and, just as I'm always telling you, be proactive,
0:30:03 > 0:30:07'gather your own evidence and keep the big boys on their toes,
0:30:07 > 0:30:10'which is exactly what I'm doing.
0:30:10 > 0:30:17'Based on all that vital information from our two experts, I'm ready to tackle Barclays again.'
0:30:17 > 0:30:23Now Barclays have dig their heels in here. They seem to think this chip and PIN is infallible.
0:30:23 > 0:30:29I disagree with that. I've done a bit of research and I've got some awkward questions for them,
0:30:29 > 0:30:36but when I ask for them, requesting certain bits of information, it might put a cat amongst the pigeons.
0:30:36 > 0:30:42'I ring the contact I've spoken to before, but they're not there, so I leave a message.'
0:30:42 > 0:30:48Can I request the transaction logs of the CVV and the SSAD certificate and the transaction certificate?
0:30:48 > 0:30:55I've been speaking to Professor Ross Anderson. He's going to be looking into some of this for us.
0:30:55 > 0:31:01And I'd like to reiterate my request for CCTV footage to prove Audrey Bruce made the counter transaction.
0:31:01 > 0:31:05The police said it's not a criminal matter, so we need it from you.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08Look forward to your response. Bye.
0:31:08 > 0:31:15I tell you what, that's going to hit them right there. He's going to go, "Whoa! Who's he been talking to?"
0:31:15 > 0:31:21But will what I find out be the making or breaking of Audrey's case?
0:31:21 > 0:31:28The only CCTV footage they have was sent to the police and got lost. Barclays didn't keep a copy of it!
0:31:33 > 0:31:39More and more of you are becoming consumer savvy. By putting your knowledge to the test,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42you get some great results. And here's how you did it.
0:31:46 > 0:31:52Home is where the heart is and over two million Britons who own leasehold properties
0:31:52 > 0:31:56pay a management company to look after and maintain their building.
0:31:56 > 0:32:02It's estimated that this costs leaseholders over £700 million every year.
0:32:02 > 0:32:09But what if your agent is charging you high fees, but not maintaining the building? Can you do anything?
0:32:09 > 0:32:11Well, apparently, yes.
0:32:11 > 0:32:16Meet Neil Healey. He bought an apartment in a block of 165 flats
0:32:16 > 0:32:20on a swish development in Nottingham in December, 2007.
0:32:20 > 0:32:27But soon he realised that Solitaire, the property management company, hadn't kept the house in order.
0:32:27 > 0:32:30I realised, by speaking to some of my neighbours,
0:32:30 > 0:32:35that we seemed to be receiving very large service charge bills.
0:32:35 > 0:32:43And the management was poor. It was obvious that the grounds weren't being maintained properly.
0:32:43 > 0:32:50The communal area in two blocks smelt of sewage. This is a problem that was continuously reported
0:32:50 > 0:32:55to Solitaire Property Management and nothing was ever resolved.
0:32:55 > 0:33:02Solitaire had crossed the wrong man with Neil Healey and he was about to create a stink of his own.
0:33:02 > 0:33:08I wrote to Solitaire Property Management and asked to activate, to use my right under legislation,
0:33:08 > 0:33:11to inspect receipts and invoices.
0:33:11 > 0:33:17A meeting was arranged at Solitaire's headquarters to look through the paperwork.
0:33:18 > 0:33:25We were given spreadsheets of figures that did not relate in any way to bills I'd received.
0:33:25 > 0:33:31We were in there for less than an hour before we had to abandon it. The information wasn't available.
0:33:31 > 0:33:35Neil wasn't deterred. He switched to plan B.
0:33:35 > 0:33:41It was decided that all blocks would join together and make a very large joint application
0:33:41 > 0:33:48to a leasehold valuation tribunal to determine whether years of service charge were reasonable.
0:33:48 > 0:33:54After six months, the tribunal ordered Solitaire to hand over copies of all receipts and invoices
0:33:54 > 0:33:57for each year for each block.
0:33:57 > 0:34:04There was invoices and receipts for repairs to other estates that didn't relate to our estate.
0:34:04 > 0:34:07There was invoices and receipts for duplicate works.
0:34:07 > 0:34:13Neil spent hundreds of hours collecting evidence from all 165 leaseholders
0:34:13 > 0:34:17until he'd a mountain of paperwork against Solitaire.
0:34:17 > 0:34:22And so, almost two years after Neil had moved in, it was crunch time at the tribunal.
0:34:23 > 0:34:28On one side of the room was myself
0:34:28 > 0:34:33and on the other side was a barrister from London on behalf of the Solitaire Group
0:34:33 > 0:34:37and also two solicitors, an accountant
0:34:37 > 0:34:42and quite a few senior managers from the Peverel Group.
0:34:42 > 0:34:48Peverel was the company that bought Solitaire in 2008 and had to face the music on the day of reckoning.
0:34:48 > 0:34:54Neil's hard work and countless hours trawling through accounts were about to pay off.
0:34:54 > 0:35:01The judgment was refunds for all years for all blocks at City Heights.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04The total refund was £223,000,
0:35:06 > 0:35:09which went to 165 families.
0:35:09 > 0:35:15This was a great victory, but it was time for Neil and his neighbours to take charge once and for all.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19In May, 2010, we served the correct notices
0:35:19 > 0:35:25on the freeholder, activating our right to manage, to take over the blocks.
0:35:25 > 0:35:32The new company was owed money by the old management group, including advance payments already made
0:35:32 > 0:35:35and they got back every penny.
0:35:35 > 0:35:41The total amount I've managed to recover from the Solitaire Group back into the development
0:35:41 > 0:35:47is just short of half a million pounds. It's about £420,000.
0:35:47 > 0:35:53Gordon Bennett! What an incredible result. 420 grand! Good on you, Neil.
0:35:53 > 0:35:58Even I could learn a thing or two from you. What a community champion.
0:35:59 > 0:36:05Holding & Management is a landlord company and the freeholder of this development.
0:36:05 > 0:36:09They've issued a statement with includes...
0:36:17 > 0:36:21Peverel has also released a statement which includes:
0:36:31 > 0:36:35That was a typical case of David and Goliath.
0:36:35 > 0:36:42Neil diligently did his research, put together his case and beat the big boys. We all like to see that.
0:36:46 > 0:36:51Hard-working single mum Audrey Bruce has been battling Barclays bank
0:36:51 > 0:36:59for a refund of money she insists has been stolen from her bank account while she had her bank card.
0:37:00 > 0:37:04Barclays is adamant it was her card and PIN number that was used,
0:37:04 > 0:37:08in which case the bank does not have to pay back the money.
0:37:08 > 0:37:14When they do send me a PIN, I will look at it and then burn it. I don't just put it in the bin.
0:37:14 > 0:37:21Shockingly, I've come across many of you who are taking on your banks over disputed transactions.
0:37:21 > 0:37:29If, like Audrey, you find the going gets tough, I know just the organisation to help.
0:37:29 > 0:37:35The Information Commissioner's Office enforces the Data Protection Act and Freedom of Information Act.
0:37:35 > 0:37:42If people have concerns about how their information is being used then they can come to us.
0:37:42 > 0:37:49But do you have to wait until you're in a dispute with a company before you can ask for your information?
0:37:49 > 0:37:56Individuals can request information relating to them from organisations that hold it at any time.
0:37:56 > 0:38:01They don't have to give a reason. Just say, "Please give me the information you hold about me."
0:38:01 > 0:38:06This usually costs £10. However, it can be more.
0:38:06 > 0:38:12- What if a company keeps ignoring your requests?- Repeat the request, probably by recorded delivery.
0:38:12 > 0:38:17If still nothing turns up, come to us and make a complaint.
0:38:17 > 0:38:25It's also open for individuals to go to court, but it's a lot easier to come to the Information Commissioner.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28It's good to know these guys are on our side.
0:38:28 > 0:38:34'I think it's time to ramp up the pressure on Barclays to get the information I requested,
0:38:34 > 0:38:39'particularly the all-important CCTV footage.'
0:38:39 > 0:38:44It's been quite a while since we spoke - three or four weeks ago.
0:38:44 > 0:38:46I know you wanted some time
0:38:46 > 0:38:49to thoroughly look at it. Any news?
0:38:49 > 0:38:56'Now the news is that apparently they're getting ready to give us their final statement
0:38:56 > 0:39:01'in which they say their position remains unchanged. But hang on.
0:39:01 > 0:39:07'How can they say they're not budging when we still haven't seen any evidence? Talking of which...'
0:39:07 > 0:39:13Have you had any luck getting the CCTV footage? 'And that's when they drop their bombshell.
0:39:13 > 0:39:18'The CCTV footage, crucial evidence to prove Audrey's innocence,
0:39:18 > 0:39:20'has been lost.'
0:39:22 > 0:39:29How can the bank say their position is unchanged if you're unable to provide that crucial evidence?
0:39:29 > 0:39:36'It seems that between Barclays and the police, it's gone missing, but that wasn't the only disaster.'
0:39:36 > 0:39:39That's the only copy of the footage? I find that a bit shocking,
0:39:39 > 0:39:44especially if you won't change your stance.
0:39:44 > 0:39:47'I'm absolutely flabbergasted,
0:39:47 > 0:39:51'but they still think their final statement will cover all my points.'
0:39:54 > 0:40:00Now that guy at Barclays just said to me, "I'm sending you a final statement
0:40:00 > 0:40:06"and basically it's telling you that we're not changing our stance." I said, "I don't call that final.
0:40:06 > 0:40:11"I might want to challenge it." But then I found out from him
0:40:11 > 0:40:18that the only CCTV footage they have was sent to the police and it's got lost. They didn't even keep a copy!
0:40:18 > 0:40:21That is negligent, if you ask me.
0:40:21 > 0:40:28It's time for a catch-up with Audrey, but unfortunately I haven't got any good news for her.
0:40:29 > 0:40:34Audrey, normally when I come back to meet people, I have good news.
0:40:34 > 0:40:39- I haven't got any good news for you. Does that surprise you?- No.
0:40:39 > 0:40:46Barclays have said to me that between them and the police they have lost the CCTV footage.
0:40:46 > 0:40:53That's the footage which would either show you're innocent or show who actually was guilty.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55How do you feel about that?
0:40:55 > 0:40:59Very...unhappy.
0:40:59 > 0:41:05Because now the evidence that I've been asking for from day one, which would probably prove my innocence,
0:41:05 > 0:41:08is nowhere to be found.
0:41:08 > 0:41:12Barclays have issued a statement which includes:
0:41:21 > 0:41:26- They told me on the phone they're very sorry.- It's not good enough.
0:41:26 > 0:41:29- Sorry can't give me back my money. - I agree.
0:41:29 > 0:41:35Since their initial statement, Barclays have finally released the transaction logs for Audrey's card.
0:41:35 > 0:41:42These logs give her details of the exact where and when of all the disputed transactions
0:41:42 > 0:41:45and the card and PIN numbers that were used.
0:41:45 > 0:41:52However, without Audrey's original chip, it doesn't definitively prove that it was her card.
0:41:52 > 0:41:57The bank insists that it was her actual card.
0:41:57 > 0:42:03In further correspondence, Barclays also say that having reviewed a letter from Audrey's employer
0:42:03 > 0:42:10stating she was at work at the time of the transactions, it does not alter the fact that...
0:42:15 > 0:42:21They have told me this is it, final statement, they're not going to give your money back.
0:42:21 > 0:42:23So there's nothing else I can do.
0:42:23 > 0:42:29Audrey is still adamant that she has no idea how the money was withdrawn from her account.
0:42:29 > 0:42:35What is clear is that the banks do have security checks in place for chip and PIN cards,
0:42:35 > 0:42:40but no system is infallible. If something goes wrong on your account,
0:42:40 > 0:42:42remember our expert's advice.
0:42:42 > 0:42:47We say to people, "If you haven't destroyed your card, don't do it."
0:42:47 > 0:42:53Go to the bank and look at the ATM. If there's CCTV there, ask to have a copy of it.
0:42:53 > 0:42:59Individuals can request information relating to them from organisations that hold it.
0:42:59 > 0:43:05'I have to say there are clearly lessons to be learned from this one and I do feel sorry for Audrey,
0:43:05 > 0:43:11'but I'm now even more determined in my fight to stop us all getting done.'
0:43:27 > 0:43:30Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd