0:00:02 > 0:00:05I've been fighting your consumer battles for years now,
0:00:05 > 0:00:08but the same old problems just keep flooding in.
0:00:08 > 0:00:12And it's all the usual suspects - poor customer service, faulty goods
0:00:12 > 0:00:13and hidden small print.
0:00:13 > 0:00:17No wonder some of you are fed up with the way you're being treated.
0:00:17 > 0:00:21The most frustrating thing about being a customer in the UK
0:00:21 > 0:00:24is the lack of customer service.
0:00:24 > 0:00:26Do you know what really grinds my gears?
0:00:26 > 0:00:28When I place an order and the company get it wrong
0:00:28 > 0:00:30and I have to call them back
0:00:30 > 0:00:32and I have to tell them they've got it wrong.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34It's just...
0:00:34 > 0:00:36I couldn't agree more. Things need to change
0:00:36 > 0:00:39and we're on a mission to get companies to treat us better.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42I'll be taking on your cases
0:00:42 > 0:00:45and fighting your fight with the big companies.
0:00:45 > 0:00:47Once he realises exactly what I'm fighting here,
0:00:47 > 0:00:50I'll be very surprised if he wants to argue with me.
0:00:50 > 0:00:55And I'll be showing you how to shop smart and stay one step ahead.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58There have been cases where those people have been very naughty
0:00:58 > 0:01:01and said, "We never received it."
0:01:01 > 0:01:02So, remember...
0:01:02 > 0:01:04- Don't Get Done...- Get Dom.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11Coming up on today's show -
0:01:11 > 0:01:14one woman's battle against a claims management company
0:01:14 > 0:01:18who want their cut of a payment protection insurance refund.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21At what point did you realise how serious this was getting?
0:01:21 > 0:01:24When we received a debt recovery letter.
0:01:24 > 0:01:29We've got some inside knowledge for you on dodgy damp-proof specialists...
0:01:29 > 0:01:31It's not usually a surveyor that comes round,
0:01:31 > 0:01:33it's a salesman with a moisture meter
0:01:33 > 0:01:36trying to convince you that you've got a damp problem,
0:01:36 > 0:01:38even though you probably weren't aware of it
0:01:38 > 0:01:40before you took the cold call.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42..and Rani Price hits the streets
0:01:42 > 0:01:45to find out if you, the Great British public,
0:01:45 > 0:01:47are in the wrong about your consumer rights.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49Who's in the right - you or them?
0:01:49 > 0:01:53Well, I would hope it would be me, but it very rarely goes that way.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00Wouldn't we all love it if we suddenly found out
0:02:00 > 0:02:01that we were owed some money?
0:02:01 > 0:02:05Well, that's exactly what's been happening to the thousands of people
0:02:05 > 0:02:08who were mis-sold payment protection insurance, or PPI,
0:02:08 > 0:02:10over the last couple of years.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12But it seems claiming back mis-sold PPI
0:02:12 > 0:02:14isn't as straightforward as it could be.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18Just ask Shirley Sproule,
0:02:18 > 0:02:23whose attempts to claim back PPI have caused her no end of hassle.
0:02:23 > 0:02:25It began in November 2011,
0:02:25 > 0:02:26when she employed the services
0:02:26 > 0:02:30of claims management specialists Elsworth Associates
0:02:30 > 0:02:36to help her reclaim mis-sold PPI on several loans from Lloyds TSB.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39I was just sat at home just watching the TV
0:02:39 > 0:02:41and the telephone rang
0:02:41 > 0:02:44and it was a guy offering PPI claims, and did I know about it?
0:02:44 > 0:02:46I said yes.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48Payment protection insurance, or PPI,
0:02:48 > 0:02:51is sold by lenders alongside credit cards and loans
0:02:51 > 0:02:55to cover repayments should a borrower be unable to work
0:02:55 > 0:02:57due to sickness or redundancy.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00Many policies were mis-sold because customers didn't need it,
0:03:00 > 0:03:02or were not aware it had been included
0:03:02 > 0:03:04in their loan repayments at all.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08Shirley had taken out several loans with her bank, Lloyds TSB,
0:03:08 > 0:03:11and Elsworth Associates told her they could help claim a refund.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14He said, "You've nothing to worry about."
0:03:14 > 0:03:16He said it wouldn't affect my credit rating or anything.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19And I said, "OK, right, I'll go for it, then."
0:03:19 > 0:03:24And he said that he would arrange for someone to come and speak to us,
0:03:24 > 0:03:26so that's what happened.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30The Elsworth representative came to Shirley's home
0:03:30 > 0:03:31to formalise the agreement,
0:03:31 > 0:03:33and she signed a contract
0:03:33 > 0:03:37agreeing to pay the company 25% of any mis-sold PPI
0:03:37 > 0:03:39they helped her win from Lloyds TSB.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41Elsworth then wrote to Lloyds
0:03:41 > 0:03:44informing them they were taking on the claim.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47We hadn't heard from Elsworth for nearly two months
0:03:47 > 0:03:49and we thought, "We're not going to get anything."
0:03:49 > 0:03:53And then a few days later we got the letter from Lloyds TSB.
0:03:54 > 0:03:58The letter was an offer for £984.98
0:03:58 > 0:04:02as a PPI refund for two loans held with the bank.
0:04:02 > 0:04:06We sent the cheque off to Elsworth for their 25% fee
0:04:06 > 0:04:08and we thought, well, that was fair enough,
0:04:08 > 0:04:12that wasn't too big an amount to pay somebody.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14I sent a thank-you letter on March 1st,
0:04:14 > 0:04:16thanking them for their service
0:04:16 > 0:04:19and saying that I would recommend them to friends.
0:04:19 > 0:04:20I sent that letter off
0:04:20 > 0:04:24and thought that would be the last I would hear from Elsworth.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27The thank-you letter also terminated the contract with Elsworth.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29But two months later,
0:04:29 > 0:04:33Shirley and her husband came across more eligible loans with Lloyds TSB,
0:04:33 > 0:04:35so started the claims process again
0:04:35 > 0:04:39and their hard work paid off big time.
0:04:39 > 0:04:45We eventually got £13,088.90, which we were over the moon with,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48because that's a lot of money to us.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51But their joy wasn't to last.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54Just a week after receiving the letter from Lloyds,
0:04:54 > 0:04:58the Sproules received an invoice from Elsworth
0:04:58 > 0:05:04for 25% of this new figure, to the sum of £3,926.68.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09How did Elsworth know about this if Shirley had made the claim herself?
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Well, it appears the bank
0:05:11 > 0:05:14had kept the claims management company in the loop.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18When we received the letter from Elsworth we were both angry
0:05:18 > 0:05:22and we phoned them up and said, "No, you're not entitled to this money.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25"You didn't do anything for it."
0:05:26 > 0:05:30So Shirley and husband Martin are left with the bill
0:05:30 > 0:05:32of nearly £4,000 from Elsworth,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35and both parties think the money is rightfully theirs.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37I'm about to meet up with Shirley,
0:05:37 > 0:05:40who's come all the way down from bonnie Scotland
0:05:40 > 0:05:42to tell me about her woes.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46I'm quite looking forward to this, because I love a Scottish accent.
0:05:46 > 0:05:47'Now, with the PPI scandal,
0:05:47 > 0:05:50'claims management companies have been in the spotlight
0:05:50 > 0:05:54'and I'm interested initially in Shirley's first impressions
0:05:54 > 0:05:56'of Elsworth Associates.'
0:05:56 > 0:05:58So, let's talk about Elsworth.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02As far as you were concerned, how happy were you with their service?
0:06:02 > 0:06:05To begin with, I was really happy with their service.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07We managed to get just under £1,000 back,
0:06:07 > 0:06:10that wasn't as much as what I was expecting,
0:06:10 > 0:06:13but it was £1,000 that I didn't have before
0:06:13 > 0:06:14so I was fairly happy.
0:06:14 > 0:06:16So what happened after then?
0:06:16 > 0:06:18Because it said in the letter
0:06:18 > 0:06:21that that was the final response from Lloyds TSB, I thought,
0:06:21 > 0:06:23"Well, that's it, that's what we're going to get."
0:06:23 > 0:06:27So, because I had read through the terms and conditions of Elsworth,
0:06:27 > 0:06:30I was free to terminate the contract,
0:06:30 > 0:06:34which, after I had paid Elsworth their 25%,
0:06:34 > 0:06:35that's what I did.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37You sent the letter in?
0:06:37 > 0:06:39- I sent the letter in. - Was it an email?
0:06:39 > 0:06:43- No, it was a written letter. - Did you record-delivery that letter?
0:06:43 > 0:06:47- No, I didnae.- Give me your hand, give me your hand.
0:06:47 > 0:06:50- You're a naughty girl, aren't you? - I know!- Naughty girl!
0:06:50 > 0:06:54You've got to record-delivery anything that's official like that,
0:06:54 > 0:06:56or have some sort of paper trace of it.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59An email's great because you can trace it back through your sent box
0:06:59 > 0:07:02and they can obviously find it in their inbox.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05But the old postal service, although it probably was delivered,
0:07:05 > 0:07:09- you have no proof of that. - No.- Right, mistake number one.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12But at least she did take a photocopy of the letter.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17Now, I need to find out every last detail of what has gone on,
0:07:17 > 0:07:21starting with these other loans Elsworth seem to have missed.
0:07:21 > 0:07:22Shirley found out about these
0:07:22 > 0:07:26from bank staff at her local Lloyds branch when she popped in.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28He said, "Had you heard of PPI?"
0:07:28 > 0:07:31And I said, "Of course I've heard of PPI, I've claimed."
0:07:31 > 0:07:33He says, "What did you claim on?"
0:07:33 > 0:07:37I said, "Well, a company got us a claim back on two loans."
0:07:37 > 0:07:40And he says, "Oh, no, you've got far more than two loans."
0:07:40 > 0:07:42I says, "Oh, right."
0:07:42 > 0:07:47So he very generously gave me a list of loans and credit cards,
0:07:47 > 0:07:51gave me the phone number that I was to phone Lloyds TSB on.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54And it was after being given this list
0:07:54 > 0:07:55that the couple went ahead
0:07:55 > 0:07:58and made a claim for the rest of the mis-sold PPI
0:07:58 > 0:08:00directly with Lloyds TSB.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03And although they didn't seem to have any involvement
0:08:03 > 0:08:04in these additional claims,
0:08:04 > 0:08:08Elsworth still believe they are entitled to their 25% fee.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12So how much are they trying to claim back from you now?
0:08:12 > 0:08:15- It's roughly about £4,000.- Wow.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17I mean, big wow.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20'But it gets worse.'
0:08:20 > 0:08:23At what point did you realise how serious this was getting?
0:08:23 > 0:08:27When we received a debt recovery letter. Because that's really scary.
0:08:27 > 0:08:29They are.
0:08:29 > 0:08:30Not a great fan of them.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34'It was nearly two months after terminating the Elsworth contract
0:08:34 > 0:08:36'that Shirley discovered other loans.
0:08:36 > 0:08:38'But I'm interested in exactly why
0:08:38 > 0:08:42'she thinks their invoice for this second claim is unfair.'
0:08:42 > 0:08:44How much effort have you put in yourself
0:08:44 > 0:08:45trying to get this money back?
0:08:45 > 0:08:49We were phoning every week to two weeks
0:08:49 > 0:08:50just to keep on top of them,
0:08:50 > 0:08:53because they kept saying, no, they weren't going to pay out,
0:08:53 > 0:08:55they weren't going to pay out.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57Now, that was from April 21st
0:08:57 > 0:09:00and we never got the loan offer until July 5th.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03So, to me, that was a lot of our time.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06Now tell me what you'd like me to do for you.
0:09:06 > 0:09:10I'd like you to contact Elsworth and put the case to them,
0:09:10 > 0:09:13because I've written numerous letters to them,
0:09:13 > 0:09:16they answer them, but they don't answer every question
0:09:16 > 0:09:18that I've put in the letter.
0:09:18 > 0:09:23So we just thought that if anybody can get to them, you can.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26There's three people here - you, Elsworth and Lloyds.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28And I just need to get to the bottom of it
0:09:28 > 0:09:30and tidy it all up and see what we get.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33- Yep, no problem.- Lovely.
0:09:33 > 0:09:34I'll be catching up with you soon.
0:09:36 > 0:09:40Shirley has definitely got a bit of a sticky situation on her hands,
0:09:40 > 0:09:41that's for certain.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44It's also her first time ever in London,
0:09:44 > 0:09:47so let's hope this visit is a very memorable one,
0:09:47 > 0:09:49but for the right reasons.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52Getting to the bottom of this case
0:09:52 > 0:09:55is going to mean speaking to not one, but two companies.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59First is Elsworth Associates, they're based in Blackburn
0:09:59 > 0:10:02and regulated by the Ministry of Justice
0:10:02 > 0:10:04to provide services and claims management.
0:10:04 > 0:10:07They say they run an efficient and quality service to their clients
0:10:07 > 0:10:10on a "no win, no fee" basis
0:10:10 > 0:10:13and promise to keep in touch throughout the claims process.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Then there's banking giant Lloyds TSB,
0:10:16 > 0:10:18part of the Lloyds Banking Group,
0:10:18 > 0:10:21which is 43% government-owned.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23According to consumer group Which?,
0:10:23 > 0:10:26they had more PPI complaints than any other bank.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30And having done my background research on the companies,
0:10:30 > 0:10:32one of the main questions is
0:10:32 > 0:10:35whether or not the original claim was closed.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38Elsworth say it wasn't, but Shirley thought it was
0:10:38 > 0:10:41and she says Lloyds confirmed this to her.
0:10:41 > 0:10:42Time for my first call.
0:10:42 > 0:10:48The thing is about Shirley's claim here is, who do I go to first?
0:10:48 > 0:10:53Elsworth or Lloyds? It's a flip of a coin, so I'll go with Lloyds.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57'I get through to the PPI Reclaims Helpline
0:10:57 > 0:10:59'and I'm told to send a letter of authority
0:10:59 > 0:11:02'in order for me to act on behalf of the Sproules.
0:11:02 > 0:11:03'That's standard procedure.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05'In addition, Shirley's convinced
0:11:05 > 0:11:08'Lloyds will have recordings of phone calls she made to them
0:11:08 > 0:11:10'to open a new PPI refund claim
0:11:10 > 0:11:14'unconnected to the claim started by Elsworth.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17'I'm hoping Lloyds can provide these recordings.'
0:11:17 > 0:11:19I'll get the letter of authority over to you
0:11:19 > 0:11:21and then I shall give you a call back.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23Thanks very much. Bye-bye.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26'Next up, Elsworth Associates.'
0:11:27 > 0:11:29'I get through to the General Manager,
0:11:29 > 0:11:31'who doesn't want her voice used.
0:11:31 > 0:11:34'I explain that Shirley Sproule was initially happy
0:11:34 > 0:11:37'with the service Elsworth provided.'
0:11:37 > 0:11:41She wrote you a letter congratulating your service
0:11:41 > 0:11:43on March 1st, 2012.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46In that letter, she also asked you
0:11:46 > 0:11:49to cancel her contract with yourselves.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52I'm really hoping they have evidence of this,
0:11:52 > 0:11:55but I'm told they don't have the specifics to hand just yet.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59She also mentions that they operate a catch-all policy,
0:11:59 > 0:12:01so they don't miss any loans.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04When you put a claim in with one particular lender -
0:12:04 > 0:12:07let's say, hypothetically, Lloyds - on behalf of a customer,
0:12:07 > 0:12:11how long will it be before they give you all the relevant information
0:12:11 > 0:12:14about various different loans? I'm not asking for an exact date,
0:12:14 > 0:12:17just the approximate amount of time it would take.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20'I'm informed that lenders should normally respond within five days,
0:12:20 > 0:12:22'but that sometimes things take longer
0:12:22 > 0:12:25'and something definitely went wrong in this case,
0:12:25 > 0:12:27'because it was over half a year
0:12:27 > 0:12:29'before the other loans came to light.'
0:12:29 > 0:12:31After she disengaged your services
0:12:31 > 0:12:34and confirmed with Lloyds that you were no longer involved,
0:12:34 > 0:12:37she put a claim in in May this year.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40You're talking about seven months later.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43Obviously until Lloyds had told you about this claim,
0:12:43 > 0:12:46I can probably safely assume you didn't know about it.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49You probably didn't have any involvement in it,
0:12:49 > 0:12:52so we are talking about a subsequent claim seven months later.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57Shirley and her husband are adamant they did all the legwork
0:12:57 > 0:12:59and Elsworth say if that was the case
0:12:59 > 0:13:01they wouldn't expect the money.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04But if the company were directly involved
0:13:04 > 0:13:07they would expect to be paid their fee, which is fair enough.
0:13:07 > 0:13:10I can't wait to see what both companies come back with,
0:13:10 > 0:13:14but I've got a funny feeling this case is far from clear cut.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17It would seem pretty obvious that it's...
0:13:17 > 0:13:21it's almost certainly something that you're not entitled to.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28I'm Rani Price and there's nothing I like better
0:13:28 > 0:13:30than helping you, the buying public,
0:13:30 > 0:13:35through the minefield of regulations to make sure you stay savvy shoppers.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42'Now, consumer law can be very confusing.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45'You've got your Sale Of Goods Act, Distance Selling, Right To Return,
0:13:45 > 0:13:49'and it doesn't stop there, but knowing just a few of these laws
0:13:49 > 0:13:53'can save you not only money, but a lot of hassle as well.'
0:13:53 > 0:13:56Would you mind chatting to us for a couple of minutes?
0:13:56 > 0:13:59'Today, I'm out on the streets, armed with questions to put to you,
0:13:59 > 0:14:01'the buying public, to find out if you know
0:14:01 > 0:14:04'your consumer rights from your consumer wrongs.'
0:14:04 > 0:14:08When we think of utilities, we think of the main three -
0:14:08 > 0:14:11gas, electricity and water - but what about the internet?
0:14:11 > 0:14:13After all, we rely on it more and more,
0:14:13 > 0:14:17so do you know your rights when it comes to your internet connection?
0:14:17 > 0:14:21Internet service providers often try to attract
0:14:21 > 0:14:24customers by advertising certain speeds
0:14:24 > 0:14:27and we all want the fastest connection for the best price,
0:14:27 > 0:14:32but what if your surfing isn't as swift as you'd hoped?
0:14:32 > 0:14:36Say, for example, you went to your internet provider and said,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38"I want you to guarantee that I'll get 8Mb per second,"
0:14:38 > 0:14:41and they said, "Actually, we're not going to guarantee it,
0:14:41 > 0:14:45"we'll say up to 8Mb," would you take on the deal?
0:14:45 > 0:14:47Yes, I did, unfortunately.
0:14:47 > 0:14:49THEY LAUGH
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Did they say "up to" or did they guarantee it?
0:14:51 > 0:14:53No, no, they didn't guarantee it at all.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56Let's say you want 9Mb and they say,
0:14:56 > 0:15:00"Well, it's up to 9Mb, we can't guarantee it," what do you do?
0:15:00 > 0:15:03Er, to be honest, I would probably look somewhere else,
0:15:03 > 0:15:07but I've been checking companies in the beginning
0:15:07 > 0:15:10and this company that I have right now,
0:15:10 > 0:15:13they did guarantee between 9 and 16.
0:15:13 > 0:15:14So that's what it is -
0:15:14 > 0:15:16they can guarantee between a certain amount,
0:15:16 > 0:15:20but they can't guarantee you will definitely have 9Mb every day
0:15:20 > 0:15:22or you will definitely have 16Mb every day.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26'So it seems we're all looking for a guarantee,
0:15:26 > 0:15:29'but let's see what our Trading Standards expert has to say
0:15:29 > 0:15:32'about guaranteed connection speeds.'
0:15:32 > 0:15:34Everybody should expect the speed that's advertised,
0:15:34 > 0:15:37BUT you need to look at what really is being advertised.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40When they say, for example, 8Mb or whatever,
0:15:40 > 0:15:43they're saying "up to" and the "up to" is the key information.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46How many people in your house are using the internet at the same time,
0:15:46 > 0:15:50how far your house is from the main point of
0:15:50 > 0:15:52broadband connection for that service provider,
0:15:52 > 0:15:55how many people are sharing that line, for example?
0:15:55 > 0:15:58These things will really affect the speed of the broadband.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01But what if your connection was consistently lower than
0:16:01 > 0:16:06the advertised megabyte speed? Can you escape your contract?
0:16:06 > 0:16:09Let's say, for example, you went for the 8Mb
0:16:09 > 0:16:14and after a while of using it, you realised it was just slow,
0:16:14 > 0:16:18in fact you were more likely getting 5Mb per second, OK?
0:16:18 > 0:16:22So now you're annoyed and you phone up the company and go,
0:16:22 > 0:16:24- "I'm not happy!" - I'd go for another company.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26Well, you're still in your contract.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29- I'm in that position right now.- Oh!
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Yeah, I won't mention the company,
0:16:31 > 0:16:34but I did buy and they did say 8Mb and it's very, very slow
0:16:34 > 0:16:37and the TV package that I have is very bad,
0:16:37 > 0:16:39so I want to go back to them and change it,
0:16:39 > 0:16:43but I know in the contract it says that
0:16:43 > 0:16:46I cannot get out of it until my contract is up.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49You complain and you say, "I'm sorry, it's not fast enough.
0:16:49 > 0:16:54"Can I change contracts, cos it's not really working out?
0:16:54 > 0:16:56"Either bring the price down or go to 8Mb,"
0:16:56 > 0:16:59and they say to you, "No, you can't
0:16:59 > 0:17:02"because you signed a contract for a year." Can they do that?
0:17:04 > 0:17:09- Er, small print, they can, I guess. - But who's in the right - you or them?
0:17:09 > 0:17:13I would hope it would be me, but it very rarely goes that way.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16'So none of these guys think they could get out of a contract
0:17:16 > 0:17:19'if their internet connection was constantly slower than promised,
0:17:19 > 0:17:21'but are they right?'
0:17:21 > 0:17:25If you agreed on 8Mb, then you can actually get out of your contract
0:17:25 > 0:17:28and they need to provide you with a different contract,
0:17:28 > 0:17:32so you could maybe say, "Well, I'll do 5Mb per second,
0:17:32 > 0:17:35- "but I'll be paying at a cheaper rate."- OK.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37So you can change your contract.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40Ofcom now says, you know, that's what you should be allowed to do
0:17:40 > 0:17:44because you're not getting what you signed up for.
0:17:44 > 0:17:48'Great. So new regulations mean consumers do have a leg to stand on
0:17:48 > 0:17:55'if constantly let down, but where do we stand with downloading?'
0:17:55 > 0:17:58Your internet has slowed down.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00You call the internet company
0:18:00 > 0:18:02and they say, "Actually, we slowed it down
0:18:02 > 0:18:06"because you have gone over your download limit."
0:18:06 > 0:18:08Can they do this?
0:18:09 > 0:18:10I really don't know.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16If they're saying you can only have so much a month,
0:18:16 > 0:18:21then perhaps they're right, but I don't know.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23They shouldn't be able to.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26They're giving you a little, you know, tap on the back of your hand.
0:18:26 > 0:18:29I think they should have told me up front.
0:18:29 > 0:18:31Do you think they can penalise you
0:18:31 > 0:18:33by making your internet connection slower?
0:18:33 > 0:18:35They can stop your internet
0:18:35 > 0:18:38until you've got a new limit for a new month, or I don't know...
0:18:38 > 0:18:40I'm not quite sure, to be honest.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44'You can be penalised in various ways
0:18:44 > 0:18:48'for exceeding what you've agreed to, but to what extent?'
0:18:48 > 0:18:51If you go over your download limit, your internet service provider
0:18:51 > 0:18:54cannot charge you a random penalty amount.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56What they can do is charge you a reasonable amount
0:18:56 > 0:19:00that reflects the cost of this extra service they have provided you.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03So the next time you choose your internet package,
0:19:03 > 0:19:05you know where you stand.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13I'm on the case to help Shirley Sproule from Dumfries
0:19:13 > 0:19:14who, in November 2011
0:19:14 > 0:19:18asked claims management company, Elsworth Associates,
0:19:18 > 0:19:23to help her reclaim mis-sold PPI on several loans with Lloyds TSB.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26After receiving some money back from Lloyds on two of the loans,
0:19:26 > 0:19:28she paid Elsworth their 25% fee
0:19:28 > 0:19:32and says she wrote them a letter to cancel the contract,
0:19:32 > 0:19:36but then Lloyds TSB told her she had more loans with them
0:19:36 > 0:19:40and Shirley and her husband then fought for four months
0:19:40 > 0:19:45to finally claim a refund on more PPI to the value of £13,088.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48But Elsworth want a cut of the money.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51There was quite a number of letters went back and fore with me
0:19:51 > 0:19:55trying to explain to them that I'd cancelled the agreement,
0:19:55 > 0:19:56it was a separate claim.
0:19:57 > 0:20:01'I've decided a good place to start would be to find out
0:20:01 > 0:20:03'what both Elsworth and Lloyds have to say.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07'I've already put calls into both companies to get the ball rolling.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10'I've also requested recordings of phone calls between Lloyds TSB
0:20:10 > 0:20:13'and Shirley because she says she was told by them
0:20:13 > 0:20:17'the original claim was closed, hence opening up a new one.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20'So it's time to call Lloyds again to follow up.'
0:20:20 > 0:20:24Is it possible to actually speak to the line manager?
0:20:24 > 0:20:26Thank you.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31'After being put on hold for nine minutes,
0:20:31 > 0:20:35'I finally get through to the line manager within PPI reclaims.'
0:20:35 > 0:20:39There was three conversations made and I have the dates and times,
0:20:39 > 0:20:42so if I could give you those, if I could request a recording,
0:20:42 > 0:20:44I'd appreciate it.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46I've already sent you the letter of authority.
0:20:46 > 0:20:49I've been unable to get what I would class as
0:20:49 > 0:20:53a decent conversation with Lloyds' PPI helpline.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56However, they've told me to call their press department.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58Perhaps they'll be able to help.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02I'll get that to you this afternoon, shall I?
0:21:02 > 0:21:04And you. Bye-bye.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10The world of PPI claims has been a pretty hot topic
0:21:10 > 0:21:14over the past couple of years with scores of companies emerging
0:21:14 > 0:21:16to try and help us claim our money back.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19Of course, the benefit of choosing one of these firms is that,
0:21:19 > 0:21:21in theory, you don't need to lift a finger
0:21:21 > 0:21:24and one day a cheque will come through the post
0:21:24 > 0:21:25with your PPI refund,
0:21:25 > 0:21:28but what do we consumers need to know about signing up
0:21:28 > 0:21:30with a PPI claim firm?
0:21:30 > 0:21:34Well, one organisation who can tell us is the Ministry Of Justice,
0:21:34 > 0:21:38as PPI claims firms are regulated by them.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41When a consumer is contracting with a claims management company
0:21:41 > 0:21:42to bring a claim against a bank,
0:21:42 > 0:21:46it's important the consumers read the detail of what service
0:21:46 > 0:21:48they'll be providing and when the fee for that service is due,
0:21:48 > 0:21:51because if a consumer decides to stop using
0:21:51 > 0:21:55the service of the company before the resolution of the claim,
0:21:55 > 0:21:58then that company can still take money off you for the fee
0:21:58 > 0:22:00because you've started a process with them,
0:22:00 > 0:22:02are contracted with them, so consumers must read
0:22:02 > 0:22:06the details of the contract before they sign up for that company.
0:22:06 > 0:22:10But Shirley did read the terms and conditions,
0:22:10 > 0:22:13which is why she sent a letter to cancel her contract.
0:22:13 > 0:22:14If a consumer wants to withdraw
0:22:14 > 0:22:17from a contract with a claims management company,
0:22:17 > 0:22:19or at the end of a claim to make sure they have
0:22:19 > 0:22:21no further fees due, they should write to the company
0:22:21 > 0:22:25under recorded delivery to make sure the company knows that fully.
0:22:25 > 0:22:29Yep, as I told Shirley, this was her one massive mistake,
0:22:29 > 0:22:33but surely Elsworth have obligations too?
0:22:33 > 0:22:36After Elsworth received the cut of the first payout to the Sproules,
0:22:36 > 0:22:39they sent no indication they were pursuing the case further,
0:22:39 > 0:22:42so it's understandable that Shirley thought her cancellation letter
0:22:42 > 0:22:46had been received and she continued to make her own claim,
0:22:46 > 0:22:49as any of us are perfectly entitled to do.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52Consumers who are thinking of making a claim
0:22:52 > 0:22:55for mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance
0:22:55 > 0:22:57can easily do it themselves if they want to.
0:22:57 > 0:22:59Although the length of the claim's process
0:22:59 > 0:23:01is in the hands of the banks,
0:23:01 > 0:23:04the banks don't respond more quickly to companies,
0:23:04 > 0:23:06solicitors than they do consumers.
0:23:06 > 0:23:09But banks do have a big responsibility.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11Banks, when they receive a claim from a consumer
0:23:11 > 0:23:14or a claims management company, are duty-bound to ensure
0:23:14 > 0:23:19they investigate what products that consumer was sold at what time.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22And Shirley's bank certainly did that.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24I need to get to the bottom of the contract
0:23:24 > 0:23:26with Elsworth being terminated,
0:23:26 > 0:23:30and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they received Shirley's letter.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33Time for my next phone call to their general manager,
0:23:33 > 0:23:36who chooses not to have her voice used.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38RINGING TONE
0:23:41 > 0:23:43Oh, hi.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46'The first thing I'm told comes as a massive blow.
0:23:46 > 0:23:48'They say they found no documentation
0:23:48 > 0:23:51'to indicate the Sproules cancelled their contract,
0:23:51 > 0:23:55'so Elsworth believes they are still entitled to charge their fee.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57'They found out about the subsequent claims
0:23:57 > 0:24:01'because Lloyds had kept them informed.'
0:24:01 > 0:24:03I've got a copy of the letter she sent you.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06Now, obviously I don't have proof that you've received it,
0:24:06 > 0:24:09that's something I'm just going to have to take her word on.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12'I can understand where Elsworth are coming from,
0:24:12 > 0:24:13'but on their company website,
0:24:13 > 0:24:16'they promise to keep in regular contact with customers,
0:24:16 > 0:24:20'so why didn't that happen if they thought the case was still open?'
0:24:20 > 0:24:23When you look at the actual facts, with what she's telling me,
0:24:23 > 0:24:26then subsequently this claim you're now putting in
0:24:26 > 0:24:30is as a result of what she's discovered seven months later,
0:24:30 > 0:24:33it would seem pretty obvious that it's...
0:24:33 > 0:24:37it's almost certainly something that you're not entitled to.
0:24:37 > 0:24:41'The Elsworth representative disagrees on the grounds that
0:24:41 > 0:24:43'Lloyds are the biggest PPI-issuing bank,
0:24:43 > 0:24:46'so their systems don't always work and things take time.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50'They believe that all the money the Sproules have had back
0:24:50 > 0:24:52'from Lloyds was instigated by them.'
0:24:52 > 0:24:55I'll tell you what I find interesting there.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57Obviously, the original claim you were paid for
0:24:57 > 0:24:59and there's no dispute there at all,
0:24:59 > 0:25:01that's the £900, that's gone, that's paid.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04When you're telling me now that this second claim,
0:25:04 > 0:25:07part of that was made by you in November 2011,
0:25:07 > 0:25:09I'll be interested if you could prove that to me
0:25:09 > 0:25:12and show me the documentation to back that up.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14'Elsworth say they also have recordings of calls
0:25:14 > 0:25:18'they made to Lloyds TSB, within which the bank confirmed
0:25:18 > 0:25:22'categorically it was a claim by Elsworth as opposed to the Sproules.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27'They agree to send me through all of this documentation,
0:25:27 > 0:25:30'but I can't help thinking that Elsworth have also broken
0:25:30 > 0:25:32'their agreement to keep in touch with a client
0:25:32 > 0:25:36'throughout their claim.' If it's seven months later,
0:25:36 > 0:25:38surely you've already switched off from this one.
0:25:38 > 0:25:40You put your original paperwork in in November,
0:25:40 > 0:25:43you've had your percentage of commission - fair enough,
0:25:43 > 0:25:45you've earned that - and then subsequently,
0:25:45 > 0:25:49they have basically cancelled the contracts with yourselves,
0:25:49 > 0:25:51put another claim in with Lloyds.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54Surely you should have chased this 13 grand right from November's date?
0:25:54 > 0:25:57'Again, Elsworth Associates say this is down to how slow
0:25:57 > 0:26:01'lenders are in communicating due to a backlog of claims.
0:26:01 > 0:26:03'Sadly, it doesn't look like they're budging at all.'
0:26:03 > 0:26:06At the moment, things aren't looking good.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09She's saying, "No, we think we're entitled to this money
0:26:09 > 0:26:11"and we're going to chase her for it."
0:26:11 > 0:26:14'Wow! I've got my work cut out on this case!'
0:26:19 > 0:26:23Wouldn't life be easier if we had a little insider knowledge,
0:26:23 > 0:26:27if we knew exactly how industries operate, so, for once,
0:26:27 > 0:26:29we, as consumers, could be ahead of the game?
0:26:29 > 0:26:34Well, I'm about to meet somebody who is fed up of keeping quiet
0:26:34 > 0:26:36and they're about to let you in on the tricks of the trade.
0:26:39 > 0:26:42'All of us take great pride in our bricks and mortar
0:26:42 > 0:26:45'and if we suspect there's something wrong with our homes,
0:26:45 > 0:26:48'we're often prepared to spend thousands of pounds
0:26:48 > 0:26:49'to put the problems right.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52'Well, we've found an industry insider who wants to warn you
0:26:52 > 0:26:56'about dodgy dealings in the world of damp-proofing.
0:26:56 > 0:27:00'To protect him from any backlash, we've concealed his identity.'
0:27:00 > 0:27:03Tell us a little bit about yourself. What's your experience?
0:27:03 > 0:27:06I've been in the damp-proofing timber-treatment industry
0:27:06 > 0:27:07for over 30 years,
0:27:07 > 0:27:10erm, mostly working as a surveyor,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13but also running a damp-proofing company.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16People don't know about it, so is that why it's easy
0:27:16 > 0:27:19for companies to take advantage of people?
0:27:19 > 0:27:23The damp-proofing industry attracts its share of disreputable companies
0:27:23 > 0:27:26and I don't think that's necessarily a problem
0:27:26 > 0:27:28that's created by the industry,
0:27:28 > 0:27:30it's just that the industry itself is vulnerable to it
0:27:30 > 0:27:34because of this mysterious element of what the work is all about
0:27:34 > 0:27:37and that attracts companies that want to take advantage of that.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40And one common tactic for the smooth operators of the damp-proofing world
0:27:40 > 0:27:46is to cold call you with a fake story about new regulations.
0:27:46 > 0:27:50"Under new government legislation, you're entitled to a free
0:27:50 > 0:27:53"damp survey and we'd like to come and arrange to do that for you."
0:27:53 > 0:27:56That's fantastic - so you can get a free damp survey? No.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58Well, you do get a free survey,
0:27:58 > 0:28:00but it's not usually a surveyor that comes round,
0:28:00 > 0:28:02it's a salesman with a moisture meter,
0:28:02 > 0:28:05trying to convince you that you've got a damp problem,
0:28:05 > 0:28:07even though you probably weren't aware of it
0:28:07 > 0:28:08before you took the cold call.
0:28:08 > 0:28:12'So it's all just a company ploy to try and get work.'
0:28:12 > 0:28:17So this is what you use to check if you have damp - a moisture meter?
0:28:17 > 0:28:20For a salesman, it's a very good tool for selling damp-proof courses.
0:28:20 > 0:28:24For a surveyor, it's just part of a toolkit that they would use
0:28:24 > 0:28:27to build a bigger picture up of a damp problem.
0:28:27 > 0:28:29Because, once they light up red,
0:28:29 > 0:28:32then they convince people they've got a damp problem.
0:28:32 > 0:28:34So if you're holding that against a wall,
0:28:34 > 0:28:37there must be some damp if it's firing up to red?
0:28:38 > 0:28:39Well, not necessarily,
0:28:39 > 0:28:41because although it's called a moisture meter,
0:28:41 > 0:28:43that can be quite misleading.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45What it's actually measuring is the conductivity
0:28:45 > 0:28:47on the surface of the wall.
0:28:47 > 0:28:50So, as you put the prongs of the meter against the wall,
0:28:50 > 0:28:52if there's a...
0:28:52 > 0:28:55if there's conductivity in the wall, for whatever reason,
0:28:55 > 0:28:57then you will get a high reading back.
0:28:57 > 0:28:59So if I put my finger across the prongs there,
0:28:59 > 0:29:01- I can get a high reading. - Do you have damp?
0:29:01 > 0:29:03So it looks like I need a new damp-proof!
0:29:03 > 0:29:04SHE LAUGHS
0:29:04 > 0:29:06So that's what they're going to be doing, then?
0:29:06 > 0:29:08This is a tool, so what you basically do
0:29:08 > 0:29:11is you're going around the walls, testing the walls,
0:29:11 > 0:29:14to see if you obtain high readings. If you do obtain high readings,
0:29:14 > 0:29:17then you should really be pursuing that
0:29:17 > 0:29:20and mapping out the wall by taking further readings
0:29:20 > 0:29:23and then looking for the cause of it based on the readings
0:29:23 > 0:29:26but for someone who's mis-selling a damp-proof course,
0:29:26 > 0:29:30the first sign of a high reading is all they're really looking for.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33Because then, you know, as long as their customer's seen that,
0:29:33 > 0:29:35then you would use that as a selling point.
0:29:35 > 0:29:40What should you really be aware of? When should alarm bells be ringing?
0:29:40 > 0:29:43I think if you're taking a free assessment of any type,
0:29:43 > 0:29:46you should always get more than one opinion anyway.
0:29:46 > 0:29:49And you may well find that the opinions about the damp problem
0:29:49 > 0:29:52are quite varied anyway and, if that's the case,
0:29:52 > 0:29:56then you should really look for a professional surveyor
0:29:56 > 0:29:57to do a survey.
0:29:57 > 0:30:03If you've got a surveyor who is suggesting that the wall is damp,
0:30:03 > 0:30:06but it's purely on a moisture meter test,
0:30:06 > 0:30:09and he cannot point to any other evidence,
0:30:09 > 0:30:13then I would be very sceptical as to whether there is a damp problem.
0:30:13 > 0:30:15'And it seems you could even be sceptical
0:30:15 > 0:30:18'of whether there is a real surveyor in your house.'
0:30:18 > 0:30:21If somebody comes round and you're expecting them
0:30:21 > 0:30:24to look at your walls and see if you have damp, and they said,
0:30:24 > 0:30:26"I'm a salesperson,"
0:30:26 > 0:30:29wouldn't you just say, "No, I need a specialist to look at this"?
0:30:29 > 0:30:33They don't call themselves salesmen. They will call themselves...
0:30:33 > 0:30:35technicians or...
0:30:35 > 0:30:37They can use the term surveyor,
0:30:37 > 0:30:41there's no sort of legal definition of what a surveyor is, of course.
0:30:41 > 0:30:44- Mm-hm.- I think what you have to look for is a qualified surveyor
0:30:44 > 0:30:47and that would be someone that's qualifications
0:30:47 > 0:30:52that are recognised in the industry for that kind of survey work.
0:30:52 > 0:30:56'So remember our expert's advice - one damp-proof meter reading
0:30:56 > 0:30:59'doesn't necessarily mean you have rising damp.
0:30:59 > 0:31:03'Get a second opinion if you've had a free survey.
0:31:03 > 0:31:06'And always check your surveyor's qualifications.'
0:31:12 > 0:31:15I'm answering a cry for help from Shirley Sproule,
0:31:15 > 0:31:19whose PPI claim has left her with an unexpected bill.
0:31:19 > 0:31:22Her and her husband used claims management company
0:31:22 > 0:31:23Elsworth Associates
0:31:23 > 0:31:26to claim mis-sold PPI from Lloyds TSB.
0:31:26 > 0:31:31Elsworth have already been paid £295 as a fee for one claim
0:31:31 > 0:31:35but now they're demanding a fee on a separate claim the Sproules say
0:31:35 > 0:31:37THEY raised with Lloyds TSB
0:31:37 > 0:31:41AFTER cancelling their contract with Elsworth Associates.
0:31:41 > 0:31:43I've been sent documentation by Elsworth,
0:31:43 > 0:31:46supporting the fact that they originally asked Lloyds
0:31:46 > 0:31:47to look into all loans
0:31:47 > 0:31:49and confirming that the bank had Elsworth down
0:31:49 > 0:31:52as handling the whole of the Sproules' case.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55But Shirley is convinced she was told the case was closed
0:31:55 > 0:31:58when she got back in touch with Lloyds TSB
0:31:58 > 0:32:00to start the claims process again.
0:32:00 > 0:32:03I phoned Lloyds TSB on 21st September,
0:32:03 > 0:32:06to see if I could get some kind of confirmation
0:32:06 > 0:32:09that they had closed the original account.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12So I spoke to someone on that day and, eventually,
0:32:12 > 0:32:17I did get him to say that it had been closed on 18th January.
0:32:17 > 0:32:18So I asked them, I says,
0:32:18 > 0:32:21"Could you actually sent me that out in writing?"
0:32:21 > 0:32:25And they said, no, they can't do that, they can't send out paperwork.
0:32:25 > 0:32:27I felt as if I was going to have to end up
0:32:27 > 0:32:28giving this money to Elsworth
0:32:28 > 0:32:31because nobody was giving me paperwork
0:32:31 > 0:32:35to prove that we had done the work and not Elsworth.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38As Elsworth Associates have asked for the best part of four grand
0:32:38 > 0:32:42from Shirley in fees for her additional PPI claims,
0:32:42 > 0:32:44I've asked them to provide evidence of the work they did
0:32:44 > 0:32:48towards this claim and there's been a development.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50They have emailed me to say they are reducing
0:32:50 > 0:32:57the amount Shirley owes them from £3,926 to £1,304.
0:32:57 > 0:33:00It is a step in the right direction and I can't wait to find out
0:33:00 > 0:33:03if they're now starting to see my point.
0:33:03 > 0:33:04I had an email from Elsworth.
0:33:04 > 0:33:06I've got to say, it's pretty good,
0:33:06 > 0:33:08because it's moving in the right direction.
0:33:08 > 0:33:11They have now made Shirley an offer of settlement
0:33:11 > 0:33:13which is a lot, lot lower than what they first wanted,
0:33:13 > 0:33:16but you know me, I'm not going to be happy with that
0:33:16 > 0:33:18and I'm going to try and better it.
0:33:19 > 0:33:20Right.
0:33:21 > 0:33:22RINGING TONE
0:33:26 > 0:33:28Voicemail.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31Good afternoon to you, it's Dominic Littlewood from the BBC.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33I just wanted to have a chat with you
0:33:33 > 0:33:35about the last email you sent in
0:33:35 > 0:33:37and would appreciate it if you could try and do it
0:33:37 > 0:33:39sooner rather than later, if it doesn't inconvenience you.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42I look forward to speaking to you. Thanks, Joanne. Bye-bye.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45I'm always polite, because that always helps.
0:33:45 > 0:33:47But I do hate voicemails!
0:33:47 > 0:33:49Oh, well. Looks like I'll just have to wait
0:33:49 > 0:33:51for an explanation for the mystery reduced figure.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54Shirley and her husband have found themselves caught up
0:33:54 > 0:33:58between their bank, Lloyds, and Elsworth, their PPI reclaim company,
0:33:58 > 0:34:01which is a pretty awkward position to be in.
0:34:01 > 0:34:06So what can you do if you find yourself in a similar situation?
0:34:06 > 0:34:08David Cresswell is director of communications
0:34:08 > 0:34:12at the Financial Ombudsman Service and he is about to explain all.
0:34:12 > 0:34:16The Financial Ombudsman is the organisation that you come to
0:34:16 > 0:34:20if you've fallen out with your bank or insurance company
0:34:20 > 0:34:21or you've complained to them
0:34:21 > 0:34:24and you don't think they're taking you seriously -
0:34:24 > 0:34:27you can come to the ombudsman and we're independent.
0:34:27 > 0:34:28We'll listen to what you say,
0:34:28 > 0:34:32we'll listen to what the bank or the insurance company says
0:34:32 > 0:34:34and then we'll make up our mind about what should happen.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37So what has the ombudsman's experience been
0:34:37 > 0:34:40of payment protection insurance being mis-sold?
0:34:40 > 0:34:45People are now saying that PPI is the biggest mis-selling scandal ever
0:34:45 > 0:34:49and the banks have got to make sure they've put enough money aside
0:34:49 > 0:34:52for everyone who might rightly claim compensation.
0:34:52 > 0:34:55At the moment, people are talking about that sum of money
0:34:55 > 0:34:59put to one side by the banks as being around 12 to 15 billion
0:34:59 > 0:35:02but some people are saying that will easily become
0:35:02 > 0:35:0420 billion or 25 billion.
0:35:04 > 0:35:07For the record, at the ombudsman,
0:35:07 > 0:35:12we're now getting over 10,000 new PPI complaints every week,
0:35:12 > 0:35:14which means the banks have, together,
0:35:14 > 0:35:18received well over two million complaints.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21What do these big numbers about PPI mean for consumers?
0:35:21 > 0:35:25The most important thing is that it means, inevitably,
0:35:25 > 0:35:28there are going to be lots of people in the queue ahead of you,
0:35:28 > 0:35:29so you will have to wait.
0:35:29 > 0:35:31Right, so it is clear that the banks
0:35:31 > 0:35:33have definitely messed up in the first place
0:35:33 > 0:35:36and they are now struggling to cope with demand from unhappy customers.
0:35:36 > 0:35:40So, when it comes to Shirley's case, Elsworth might be right
0:35:40 > 0:35:43when they say they're not the only ones to blame.
0:35:43 > 0:35:48But do you have to use a PPI company to get your money back?
0:35:48 > 0:35:51Now hundreds of thousands of people are very successfully
0:35:51 > 0:35:55doing it themselves, putting in their claim and winning.
0:35:55 > 0:35:58You are just as likely to win by complaining yourself
0:35:58 > 0:36:01as you are paying a claims manager to do it for you.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05'Wise words indeed, but this doesn't help Shirley,
0:36:05 > 0:36:08'who believes she did the second claim herself.
0:36:08 > 0:36:14'Elsworth say otherwise, and I've had an email back from Lloyds TSB.
0:36:14 > 0:36:17'In the email, they say that they upheld the original claim
0:36:17 > 0:36:22'by Elsworth Associates on 18th January 2012, and that
0:36:22 > 0:36:26'if no further contact is made, it's usual for them to close a complaint.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29'They admit that at the time of the original claim,
0:36:29 > 0:36:31'other loans were noted as linked to the Sproules,
0:36:31 > 0:36:33'but due to a "clerical oversight",
0:36:33 > 0:36:36'they weren't investigated at the time,
0:36:36 > 0:36:38'and that when Shirley got back in touch
0:36:38 > 0:36:41'they simply reopened the old case under the same reference number.
0:36:41 > 0:36:45'Hence, Elsworth Associates being copied into the new offer.
0:36:45 > 0:36:48'So Lloyds have put their hands up and admitted
0:36:48 > 0:36:51'they should have investigated all other loans at the start,
0:36:51 > 0:36:54'and if that had happened, Elsworth would've handled the full claim.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57'But they didn't. Now, although they wanted
0:36:57 > 0:37:00'the best part of four grand in fees from Shirley and her husband
0:37:00 > 0:37:02'for the second batch of claims,
0:37:02 > 0:37:06'Elsworth had just reduced their bill to a little over £1,300.
0:37:06 > 0:37:08'But I'm keen to know why.'
0:37:08 > 0:37:11Good afternoon, it's Dominic Littlewood from the BBC.
0:37:11 > 0:37:13Now, I appreciate here you've come back with an offer
0:37:13 > 0:37:17and you've reduced the amount that you're now seeking from them
0:37:17 > 0:37:19from just under four grand to just over £1,300,
0:37:19 > 0:37:23so basically you're asking for a third of what there was.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26Can I ask you, where did that figure come from?
0:37:26 > 0:37:30'Elsworth say this reduced amount is their share of the PPI refund
0:37:30 > 0:37:35'from just one loan forming part of Shirley's £13,000 claim.
0:37:35 > 0:37:39'Elsworth Associates say they are entitled to their 25% share
0:37:39 > 0:37:41'because this specific loan was named
0:37:41 > 0:37:44'in the original contract with Shirley,
0:37:44 > 0:37:47'and there had just been a delay in getting it processed.'
0:37:47 > 0:37:50Let's make a gesture of goodwill, not an admission of guilt.
0:37:50 > 0:37:52Just say to Mrs Sproule,
0:37:52 > 0:37:56"D'you know what? On this occasion we are going to wipe this one."
0:37:56 > 0:37:57How d'you feel about that?
0:37:57 > 0:38:00'Elsworth maintain they think it's reasonable
0:38:00 > 0:38:01'to ask for the extra money,
0:38:01 > 0:38:04'as it was due to a disjointed payment by Lloyds,
0:38:04 > 0:38:06'and that it was THEIR activity
0:38:06 > 0:38:08'that got Shirley and her husband all the money back.
0:38:08 > 0:38:10'But I disagree.'
0:38:10 > 0:38:13At the end of the day, I think there's an air of
0:38:13 > 0:38:15both companies probably could have done better.
0:38:15 > 0:38:19'The Elsworth representative says they sometimes have huge problems
0:38:19 > 0:38:22'with the banks during the PPI claims process, and that they
0:38:22 > 0:38:26'have contacted the Financial Services Authority for some advice.'
0:38:26 > 0:38:28I've got to say, it's touch and go
0:38:28 > 0:38:30as to whether I've got the result I want.
0:38:30 > 0:38:32I hate touch and gos.
0:38:33 > 0:38:36'Following on from Lloyds' email about "a clerical oversight"
0:38:36 > 0:38:39'which delayed their payment of PPI refunds,
0:38:39 > 0:38:42'I want to know what they're going to do about this.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45'It's not fair on Shirley, who has had months of stress
0:38:45 > 0:38:46'and debt collection letters.
0:38:46 > 0:38:48'Time for a call, I think.'
0:38:56 > 0:38:59I'm meeting Shirley Sproule this afternoon, the idea being that
0:38:59 > 0:39:03I'm going to tell her how the case has progressed and what's happened.
0:39:03 > 0:39:07When you say there was a clerical oversight, what exactly was that?
0:39:08 > 0:39:12'He says they were sent no evidence before July 2013
0:39:12 > 0:39:16'that Shirley cancelled her contract with Elsworth.
0:39:16 > 0:39:19'He also says that although some loans were missed initially,
0:39:19 > 0:39:22'they would have been picked up by an audit at a later date,
0:39:22 > 0:39:24'but clearly the bank should have investigated
0:39:24 > 0:39:26'all loans in the first place.
0:39:26 > 0:39:29'So, I suggest they offer a goodwill gesture to Shirley
0:39:29 > 0:39:30'for all the hassle.'
0:39:30 > 0:39:35I suppose £1 million is out of the question, isn't it?
0:39:35 > 0:39:38'Unsurprisingly, it's a no to the seven figure sum,
0:39:38 > 0:39:40'but he does tell me he'll see what he can do.'
0:39:40 > 0:39:43Sometimes I just think, "You know what?
0:39:43 > 0:39:45"I ain't half good at my job."
0:39:48 > 0:39:51'Shortly after getting off the phone, Lloyds have sent me an email
0:39:51 > 0:39:55'suggesting they recognise their hand in this stress, and guess what?
0:39:55 > 0:39:58'An email has come through from Elsworth Associates as well
0:39:58 > 0:40:00'with some interesting information.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02'It's time to deliver some news.'
0:40:02 > 0:40:04I've arranged to hook up again with Shirley
0:40:04 > 0:40:06to let her know how I've been getting on.
0:40:10 > 0:40:12- Good to see you again, Shirley. - Good to see you too, Dom.
0:40:12 > 0:40:15Right, Elsworth. Let's start with them.
0:40:15 > 0:40:19They believe that they were entitled to their money as a result
0:40:19 > 0:40:21of them taking on the first case for you.
0:40:21 > 0:40:24The amount of £4,000, give or take a penny or two,
0:40:24 > 0:40:28as far as they were concerned, was owing to them by you.
0:40:28 > 0:40:31- Mm-hm.- How would you feel now if I told you
0:40:31 > 0:40:36that I'd got your £4,000 debt down to £1,300?
0:40:37 > 0:40:40- Reasonably happy.- Why reasonably?
0:40:40 > 0:40:44Cos I still think they want a bit much for what they've done.
0:40:44 > 0:40:47How would you feel if I told you that Elsworth did offer that
0:40:47 > 0:40:50and I said no?
0:40:50 > 0:40:52And subsequently went back to them and they've now come back
0:40:52 > 0:40:55and said they're going to scrub your debt totally?
0:40:55 > 0:40:57- You're joking.- No.
0:40:57 > 0:40:59SHE LAUGHS
0:40:59 > 0:41:01- Really?- 100%.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04In their statement to us, they said...
0:41:36 > 0:41:37That's unbelievable.
0:41:38 > 0:41:41I honestly thought they would want their money.
0:41:41 > 0:41:44Is my job done? Am I happy?
0:41:44 > 0:41:47I hope so. Cos I'm ecstatic.
0:41:47 > 0:41:48It doesn't end there.
0:41:48 > 0:41:52Because there was also Lloyds, and there were some errors there
0:41:52 > 0:41:55which they made, so I've been on their case as well.
0:41:55 > 0:41:57I've got a statement from them.
0:41:57 > 0:42:00"Hi, Dominic. Good to speak to you earlier.
0:42:00 > 0:42:01"I am pleased to confirm
0:42:01 > 0:42:05"that we have agreed to pay Mr and Mrs Sproule £250 compensation
0:42:05 > 0:42:07"for the stress and inconvenience caused
0:42:07 > 0:42:10"as a result of the clerical oversight that meant all loans
0:42:10 > 0:42:13"were not refunded at the time of the original complaint
0:42:13 > 0:42:15"received via Elsworth Associates.
0:42:15 > 0:42:18"We will also send a bunch of flowers by way of apology.
0:42:18 > 0:42:22"We strive to deliver an excellent service for our customers
0:42:22 > 0:42:24"and we apologise that we did not meet
0:42:24 > 0:42:26"our usual high standards on this occasion."
0:42:26 > 0:42:30You've got four grand in your bank, I'm starting to see tears.
0:42:30 > 0:42:34We're just ordinary people. And we did the work.
0:42:34 > 0:42:37- Why should somebody else get paid for the work we did?- Yeah.
0:42:37 > 0:42:39I can't thank you enough.
0:42:41 > 0:42:42My pleasure.
0:42:43 > 0:42:46I'll tell you what was nice about giving Shirley that good news.
0:42:46 > 0:42:49You could tell by her reaction just how much this had been worrying her,
0:42:49 > 0:42:52just how stressed out she was. I've got to say,
0:42:52 > 0:42:55as far as Elsworth are concerned, and Lloyds bank,
0:42:55 > 0:42:59you've both done yourselves proud and Shirley is a very happy lady.
0:43:20 > 0:43:22Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd