0:00:02 > 0:00:05Hello. Today we're talking about the scary headlines that might make you think that
0:00:05 > 0:00:08some of the food you eat every single day could be really dangerous.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11But sometimes what you read isn't the full story.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14It might even be wrong, and that can have some serious implications
0:00:14 > 0:00:15for your health.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Every day we're bombarded with conflicting information
0:00:21 > 0:00:23about our favourite foods.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27One minute we're told something's good for us,
0:00:27 > 0:00:28the next it's not,
0:00:28 > 0:00:31and we're left feeling guilty about what we're eating.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37Well, we've been wading through the confusion to separate
0:00:37 > 0:00:39the scare stories from the truth,
0:00:39 > 0:00:42so you can choose your food with confidence.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53Hello and welcome to Food - Truth Or Scare,
0:00:53 > 0:00:56the programme that unpicks what's behind some of those headlines
0:00:56 > 0:00:58we all read in the papers or online,
0:00:58 > 0:01:01so you'll know which ones are really worth paying attention to
0:01:01 > 0:01:03and which you can safely ignore.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07It's really, really easy to see a news story that makes you totally
0:01:07 > 0:01:11rethink what you should be eating to avoid some serious health problems.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14But if the story you're reading is barking up the wrong tree,
0:01:14 > 0:01:17you could end up making completely the wrong decision.
0:01:17 > 0:01:21So, today we'll be bringing some much-needed clarity to stories that,
0:01:21 > 0:01:23if you really did swallow what they say,
0:01:23 > 0:01:26could have serious implications for your health.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31Coming up... Oily fish has long been called a miracle food,
0:01:31 > 0:01:34but now some reports claim it could actually be dangerous.
0:01:34 > 0:01:35So, what's the truth?
0:01:35 > 0:01:38It's actually really worrying because consumers, like yourself,
0:01:38 > 0:01:41are so confused about what they should do.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44And Chris is as confused as anyone when it comes to whether it's safe
0:01:44 > 0:01:47to eat steaks and burgers rare.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49So, we'll clear up which meats you can eat pink.
0:01:49 > 0:01:51I wouldn't eat a burger like that.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53With the beef I'm fine, but with the burger
0:01:53 > 0:01:56I'm maybe a little bit more apprehensive.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05You know, Chris, it never fails to amaze me how many headlines
0:02:05 > 0:02:07there are, and stories, about food.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10Every single day - and I get the papers every morning -
0:02:10 > 0:02:12and there it is, another headline -
0:02:12 > 0:02:14another food, another warning.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17But, sometimes there's a headline that sort of turns convention
0:02:17 > 0:02:19on its head, like oily fish.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21Now, since I was a kid at school,
0:02:21 > 0:02:23my mum was sticking that sort of cod-liver oil in my mouth,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26every day going to school. And, you know,
0:02:26 > 0:02:28we've been told that, in relation to oily fish,
0:02:28 > 0:02:30that the omega-3 fatty acids inside
0:02:30 > 0:02:32are really, really good for you.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Yeah, well, we're told it's brain food,
0:02:34 > 0:02:36it's good for our heart, and we should eat it every week.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39- And do you?- I try to, actually. Yeah, I do.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42Now, problem is, last autumn there was a flurry of stories
0:02:42 > 0:02:45like this one. And it was a French study,
0:02:45 > 0:02:47actually, and they were telling us that oily fish
0:02:47 > 0:02:48was actually bad for us.
0:02:48 > 0:02:51So, I wanted to find out if those of us who were eating it every week,
0:02:51 > 0:02:53as we've been told to do for years,
0:02:53 > 0:02:56could in fact have been putting our health at risk.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58And where better to start than by the sea?
0:03:04 > 0:03:09Every year, we spend over £1.5 billion on fresh fish,
0:03:09 > 0:03:12and our favourite by a long stretch just happens to be
0:03:12 > 0:03:15one of the healthiest around - salmon.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17Now, we've long been told that salmon
0:03:17 > 0:03:19and other oily fish, like tuna and mackerel,
0:03:19 > 0:03:23is so wonderfully good for us, and we should eat plenty of it.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26But then suddenly last year, some of the papers performed
0:03:26 > 0:03:29an abrupt about-turn, instead saying that
0:03:29 > 0:03:31too much oily fish was bad,
0:03:31 > 0:03:33and could even lead us to an early grave.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39Now, those headlines are the exact opposite of everything I've always
0:03:39 > 0:03:41thought about it and indeed believed in -
0:03:41 > 0:03:44that fish is really good for you and you should eat it every week,
0:03:44 > 0:03:47especially if it's oily fish.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52Now, I must admit, I've always tried to follow that advice,
0:03:52 > 0:03:55and like millions of other people I even back up the fish I eat
0:03:55 > 0:03:58with fish oil supplements, as well.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01So those headlines really had me worried.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03I now wonder whether the foods I've been eating
0:04:03 > 0:04:05to try and keep me healthy
0:04:05 > 0:04:08might actually be doing me more harm than good.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12But first off, I have to confess to not being really sure which fish
0:04:12 > 0:04:14are classed as oily and which aren't.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17I'm hoping that fishmonger Kieran Hammond can help me out.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23Well, Kieran, I have to admire your display, it's fantastic.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25So, which ones, as far as you're concerned as the expert here,
0:04:25 > 0:04:29- are the best oily fish?- You've got the sprats here, they're very good.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31A classic thing to do with that is lightly flour it and fry it,
0:04:31 > 0:04:33- it's a very easy meal.- Yeah.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35We've got the sardines here, they're great on the barbecue.
0:04:35 > 0:04:38- Because they're so oily, they just crisp up.- Just put them straight on.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40- Crisp up and they're lovely.- Yes.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42And we've got the herrings, there, and the tuna.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47It turns out there are a lot more oily fish than I realised -
0:04:47 > 0:04:5112, in fact. As well as those mackerel, sprats,
0:04:51 > 0:04:53sardines and herring,
0:04:53 > 0:04:56there are also pilchards, trout, anchovies,
0:04:56 > 0:05:00whitebait and salmon, and a couple of fish we eat less often here -
0:05:00 > 0:05:02carp and jack.
0:05:02 > 0:05:03Then, of course, there's tuna,
0:05:03 > 0:05:07although, perhaps surprisingly, that's only considered an oily fish
0:05:07 > 0:05:10when it's fresh, not when it's in cans,
0:05:10 > 0:05:12because, unlike with other types of oily fish,
0:05:12 > 0:05:15the canning process removes a lot of the beneficial oils
0:05:15 > 0:05:17that makes them so good for us.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20The oils are fatty acids called omega-3s,
0:05:20 > 0:05:24and these fish store higher levels of those fatty acids in their flesh,
0:05:24 > 0:05:26which of course we then eat.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29And the customers here in Whitstable have definitely bought into
0:05:29 > 0:05:32the message that oily fish is good for us.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Well, I've heard that it can help
0:05:38 > 0:05:42slow down dementia and stuff like that.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45Are you aware very much of, like, oily fish?
0:05:45 > 0:05:47To try to get omega-3 for health?
0:05:47 > 0:05:51Yes, we are. Statistics show that it's supposed to be beneficial,
0:05:51 > 0:05:53particularly for MS, so...
0:05:53 > 0:05:55And Michael takes it because I think it's good for him.
0:05:55 > 0:05:56THEY LAUGH
0:05:56 > 0:05:59So, Michael, do you get it as an insurance policy as well?
0:05:59 > 0:06:01- It's good for your knees.- Yes.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04It doesn't improve his hearing, Gloria, but it's good for the knees!
0:06:04 > 0:06:06But do you ever read the headlines, you know,
0:06:06 > 0:06:09in the daily papers, that will say,
0:06:09 > 0:06:11"Too much oily fish is bad for you"?
0:06:11 > 0:06:13How do you regard those headlines when you see them?
0:06:13 > 0:06:16We take no notice, because there are so many of them.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21Well, they might not take much notice of those scary headlines,
0:06:21 > 0:06:25but I have to say I do, so I've asked dietician Linia Patel
0:06:25 > 0:06:27to help me navigate the choppy waters
0:06:27 > 0:06:29of those conflicting news reports.
0:06:29 > 0:06:33- Look at this marvellous array of fish.- Amazing.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36'And whether they're recommending oily fish or warning against it,
0:06:36 > 0:06:39'what all those reports have in common is that they say
0:06:39 > 0:06:43'it's the omega-3 that makes it good or bad for us.
0:06:43 > 0:06:47'But Linia most definitely comes down on one side of the argument.'
0:06:47 > 0:06:49Originally, when they started looking at the benefits of omega-3,
0:06:49 > 0:06:51they looked at the Inuits in Greenland,
0:06:51 > 0:06:56and they saw that Inuits had really low levels of heart disease,
0:06:56 > 0:06:59and that was correlated with their intake of fish.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01So, we know, and there's lots of evidence to show,
0:07:01 > 0:07:05that omega-3 has a good impact on preventing heart disease and treating it.
0:07:05 > 0:07:09But since then, they've found omega-3 has a whole host of benefits.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12Researchers are also interested in the effect that oily fish might have
0:07:12 > 0:07:16on dementia, and it's hard not to be impressed by claims
0:07:16 > 0:07:18that it can stave it off.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22But for me, there was one negative headline that really hit home,
0:07:22 > 0:07:26and it's this one, saying that eating oily fish increases your risk
0:07:26 > 0:07:28of developing diabetes.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31Now, I was diagnosed as being pre-diabetic a few years ago,
0:07:31 > 0:07:34and I'm determined to try and make sure that I don't develop
0:07:34 > 0:07:37full-blown Type 2 diabetes,
0:07:37 > 0:07:39so I'm pretty careful about what I eat.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42This one says, "Diabetes risk soars by a quarter...",
0:07:42 > 0:07:44which is very high,
0:07:44 > 0:07:47"..if you eat oily fish like salmon or mackerel every day."
0:07:47 > 0:07:49Well, I wouldn't eat it every day but, I mean,
0:07:49 > 0:07:52that is a scaremongering headline.
0:07:52 > 0:07:54It is, and we've always got to remember
0:07:54 > 0:07:56there's a lot of media hype in terms of nutrition.
0:07:56 > 0:08:00But when Linia looked at the original study behind that headline,
0:08:00 > 0:08:02she discovered that the link with diabetes
0:08:02 > 0:08:06actually had more to do with meat than with fish.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10When you actually look at this study in a little bit more detail,
0:08:10 > 0:08:13we find that actually it's not quite as straightforward
0:08:13 > 0:08:17as linking your intake of oily fish to diabetes.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20When the researchers were making the completion of the study,
0:08:20 > 0:08:24they were linking it more to the intake of essential fats
0:08:24 > 0:08:26that were found in meat, versus oily fish.
0:08:28 > 0:08:30Well, I must say it's a relief to hear Linia say
0:08:30 > 0:08:32that particular headline wasn't right,
0:08:32 > 0:08:35even if it did unnecessarily worry not just me,
0:08:35 > 0:08:37but, I'm sure, many of us as well.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40Next, though, I'm keen to hear Linia's take on another
0:08:40 > 0:08:42that's even more concerning.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44"Eating too much oily fish could increase your risk
0:08:44 > 0:08:46"of premature death."
0:08:46 > 0:08:49Very dramatic, and again when you drill down into the research,
0:08:49 > 0:08:52it's not quite as straightforward as this.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55'A number of newspapers ran this story,
0:08:55 > 0:08:58'but some headlines oversimplified the study's findings
0:08:58 > 0:09:02'and reported a link to oily fish that simply wasn't there.'
0:09:02 > 0:09:04Now, the story said,
0:09:04 > 0:09:06"Right, we know that oily fish actually increases your risk
0:09:06 > 0:09:09"of good cholesterol, so that must make a link between oily fish
0:09:09 > 0:09:12"and premature death", but it's not quite that straightforward.
0:09:12 > 0:09:14So, really this headline is all about cholesterol...
0:09:14 > 0:09:17- Exactly.- ..and not really about oily fish at all.- Exactly, exactly.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21'In this case, the researchers found that people who had kidney disease
0:09:21 > 0:09:24'and high levels of good cholesterol in their blood
0:09:24 > 0:09:26'were at risk of dying prematurely,
0:09:26 > 0:09:29'but that's not what the headline suggested.'
0:09:29 > 0:09:31What do you make of that, then, as an expert,
0:09:31 > 0:09:33- does this not infuriate you? - Frustrating.
0:09:33 > 0:09:36So, so frustrating. And it's actually really worrying,
0:09:36 > 0:09:38because consumers, like yourself, are so confused
0:09:38 > 0:09:41about what they should do, and I spend my life trying to debunk myths
0:09:41 > 0:09:42that the media have created.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47Well, thank goodness we can all rest easy and not worry about
0:09:47 > 0:09:49those two headlines.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52There is, however, still one group of people for whom things
0:09:52 > 0:09:56may not be quite as clear-cut, and that's pregnant women.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59Rachel Hudson lives not too far away from Whitstable harbour,
0:09:59 > 0:10:01and she's expecting her second child.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04But when one headline suggests that eating fish
0:10:04 > 0:10:07could make her baby obese, and the next says
0:10:07 > 0:10:09that oily fish could protect it against allergies
0:10:09 > 0:10:11or boost its brainpower,
0:10:11 > 0:10:15it's no wonder that she doesn't know who or what to believe.
0:10:15 > 0:10:17I don't think it's easy for pregnant women to get the right message
0:10:17 > 0:10:19on food or oily fish.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22There is a little bit advice given on nutrition,
0:10:22 > 0:10:25but not much, as far as I'm concerned,
0:10:25 > 0:10:27so it is up to you to, just, you know,
0:10:27 > 0:10:31look on the internet and ask other people. And sometimes, you know,
0:10:31 > 0:10:33that's confusing.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37Not only has Rachel been put off by some of those headlines,
0:10:37 > 0:10:40but GPs and health visitors also tell pregnant women
0:10:40 > 0:10:44they should steer clear of eating too much oily fish
0:10:44 > 0:10:45because it can contain pollutants
0:10:45 > 0:10:48that might be dangerous for the baby.
0:10:48 > 0:10:52So, I've invited Rachel and fellow pregnant mum Louise
0:10:52 > 0:10:54to meet Linia, whom I hope will, once again,
0:10:54 > 0:10:57make sense of some of those mixed messages.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01So, girls, when it comes to oily fish, do you buy that?
0:11:01 > 0:11:06Well, I buy salmon more. Salmon and the canned tuna is what I have.
0:11:06 > 0:11:09So, what do you rate as being oily fish?
0:11:09 > 0:11:12When I hear oily, I think of, like, smoked mackerel.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16I heard canned tuna come up there. So, how does that sound?
0:11:16 > 0:11:20Well, canned tuna actually doesn't have that much omega-3.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22Fresh tuna has more omega-3.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25Both Louise and Rachel admit that they're unsure
0:11:25 > 0:11:28which fish is safe to eat when pregnant,
0:11:28 > 0:11:30perhaps confused by those headlines
0:11:30 > 0:11:33suggesting that too much oily fish might be bad for the baby.
0:11:33 > 0:11:36But then, are the headlines right?
0:11:36 > 0:11:39You know, omega-3's really important in pregnancy, cos it helps
0:11:39 > 0:11:43in brain development, visual development, nervous system etc.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47But Linia says the presence of pollutants like mercury
0:11:47 > 0:11:49means that pregnant women should have no more than
0:11:49 > 0:11:52two portions of oily fish a week.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55Can you set out, then, what the girls should not have?
0:11:55 > 0:11:58Firstly, you should not be having things like shark,
0:11:58 > 0:12:02marlin and swordfish at all, because they're the fish
0:12:02 > 0:12:04that have the highest levels of mercury.
0:12:04 > 0:12:08What you can have is maximum two portions of oily fish -
0:12:08 > 0:12:11salmon, fresh tuna, mackerel -
0:12:11 > 0:12:15and then you can have white fish - so cod, your plaice,
0:12:15 > 0:12:19your sea bass - you can have that as much as you like.
0:12:19 > 0:12:23While the NHS advises pregnant women to have no more than two portions
0:12:23 > 0:12:26of oily fish a week because of that slight pollutant risk,
0:12:26 > 0:12:29Linia recommends that they boost their omega-3 intake further
0:12:29 > 0:12:31with a small supplement.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34We know, particularly in the third trimester, that's when
0:12:34 > 0:12:36the brain develops, so potentially you could be looking
0:12:36 > 0:12:40to have a higher dose of omega-3 intake then.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42But there's a word of caution, as well.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44Linia says pregnant women should take a supplement
0:12:44 > 0:12:48that's clearly labelled "fish oil", rather than "cod-liver oil",
0:12:48 > 0:12:52because cod-liver oil contains high levels of vitamin A,
0:12:52 > 0:12:54which might just be harmful to the baby.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57It's the clear advice that Rachel and Louise have been looking for.
0:12:58 > 0:13:00You always want to better, like,
0:13:00 > 0:13:03your health and your baby's health, and anything that I can do
0:13:03 > 0:13:04to make that better, then I'm going to do it.
0:13:04 > 0:13:07And especially entering the third trimester, now,
0:13:07 > 0:13:09I will be upping my fish intake
0:13:09 > 0:13:13and taking an omega-3 supplement, so...
0:13:13 > 0:13:15But if oily fish contains pollutants,
0:13:15 > 0:13:18and as a result pregnant women are told to limit their intake,
0:13:18 > 0:13:21does that mean the rest of us should watch how much we have, as well?
0:13:22 > 0:13:25If you're not pregnant, Linia says up to four portions a week
0:13:25 > 0:13:27would be fine.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30But I have to say that when Linia recommended those supplements,
0:13:30 > 0:13:32it was music to my ears,
0:13:32 > 0:13:36because I've been taking fish oil for decades, and I'm not alone.
0:13:36 > 0:13:4015% of all the supplements we buy are fish oils.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42At King's College in London,
0:13:42 > 0:13:45Professor Tom Sanders has studied the powers of omega-3
0:13:45 > 0:13:48from both fish and in supplements.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50His research suggests that the millions of us who take
0:13:50 > 0:13:53fish oil supplements every year really needn't bother...
0:13:53 > 0:13:56although he's going to have a real job convincing me
0:13:56 > 0:13:59that I shouldn't be taking mine.
0:13:59 > 0:14:01This is my fatty acid one.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03- Yeah.- Oh, there we go.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05- A few of them.- They look more like suppositories.
0:14:05 > 0:14:07- GLORIA LAUGHS I assure you, they're not!- Yeah.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10'Now, I take a relatively high-dose supplement, daily,
0:14:10 > 0:14:12'but as far as the professor is concerned,
0:14:12 > 0:14:14'he says my whole week of pills is just about the same
0:14:14 > 0:14:16'as one piece of oily fish.'
0:14:16 > 0:14:21Well, a typical tablet, like that, would provide about half a gram,
0:14:21 > 0:14:23so if you took one of those every day,
0:14:23 > 0:14:25about three and half grams a day,
0:14:25 > 0:14:28which is roughly about the same as eating
0:14:28 > 0:14:30one piece of salmon,
0:14:30 > 0:14:34or probably two bits of mackerel, a week.
0:14:34 > 0:14:35You see, I have an argument,
0:14:35 > 0:14:39maybe I'm just trying to validate why I take so many vitamins...
0:14:39 > 0:14:43Because...if I had a proper diet all the time,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46I would accept a doctor's advice that says you don't need vitamins,
0:14:46 > 0:14:50but the thing is that we all don't have a proper diet these days.
0:14:50 > 0:14:53- Now, I know that you're sceptical, but I like the theory of taking them.- Yeah.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57One of the problems I have, generally, about supplements
0:14:57 > 0:14:59is that people are under the illusion
0:14:59 > 0:15:02that the food we are eating now is inferior
0:15:02 > 0:15:04to the food we have eaten in the past.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08You know, maybe, actually, the food people ate in Victorian times
0:15:08 > 0:15:10was great. It wasn't. It was dreadful!
0:15:10 > 0:15:14They were all undersized, they didn't live long, you know,
0:15:14 > 0:15:15survival was bad.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17We are better nourished now than we have ever been,
0:15:17 > 0:15:19and that's why people are living much longer.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25Even if I didn't eat any oily fish, the professor would still prefer me
0:15:25 > 0:15:28to look for other natural sources of omega-3,
0:15:28 > 0:15:32which he says will give me the benefits that supplements might not.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36If you don't like oily fish, and you're a vegetarian,
0:15:36 > 0:15:40then make sure you use rapeseed oil and eat nuts.
0:15:40 > 0:15:42Like, walnuts are a very good source,
0:15:42 > 0:15:47and eggs are a good source of omega-3 fatty acids.
0:15:47 > 0:15:51But I'm not sure I'm ready to break the habit of a lifetime yet.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53The jury is still out.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56Now, I'm going to argue the point for this.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58I think I'm going to keep on taking them
0:15:58 > 0:16:01because I know I'm not getting, probably, in the average week,
0:16:01 > 0:16:03the right amount of oily fish.
0:16:03 > 0:16:07I don't see any harm in taking a fish oil supplement
0:16:07 > 0:16:11as an insurance policy but I can't say I can promise you
0:16:11 > 0:16:13it's going to deliver any benefit.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16Do you think it does you some good?
0:16:16 > 0:16:18Probably.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21So, whether it is better you get it from a supplement or,
0:16:21 > 0:16:23as the professor says, from oily fish itself -
0:16:23 > 0:16:26which is where he and I actually agree to disagree -
0:16:26 > 0:16:30it's clear that, however you take it, omega-3 does have real benefits,
0:16:30 > 0:16:33and those headlines suggesting that it doesn't just aren't true.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45For a host of quick and easy ideas for cooking oily fish
0:16:45 > 0:16:47like salmon, mackerel and sardines,
0:16:47 > 0:16:50all you have to do is go to...
0:16:51 > 0:16:54..where you'll also find plenty of other recipes
0:16:54 > 0:16:56for some of the topics we're covering in this series.
0:17:02 > 0:17:06Now, as important as what we eat, is how we cook it,
0:17:06 > 0:17:08and that's especially true with our meat.
0:17:08 > 0:17:10Tony's a local butcher here.
0:17:10 > 0:17:12Tony, can you tell me a little bit more about what we've got?
0:17:12 > 0:17:14Yeah, we've got prime cuts of steak,
0:17:14 > 0:17:18sirloin, fillet, ribeye, steak bone, frying.
0:17:18 > 0:17:19And when you are serving your customers,
0:17:19 > 0:17:21do they ask you how do they cook it?
0:17:21 > 0:17:23Yes, they do, yes. How long to cook it for.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27A steak, people like it cooked well-done, medium, rare,
0:17:27 > 0:17:29so I give them the times that they want.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32So, purely a preference, as far as you are concerned?
0:17:32 > 0:17:34It's got nothing to do with food safety?
0:17:34 > 0:17:37No, none at all. It is how you prefer your meat.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40OK. And what about other meats? Would you say it is true of those?
0:17:40 > 0:17:43Lamb can be served pink or well-done,
0:17:43 > 0:17:46but with chicken and pork, I would say cook it through.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49Well, we are not all lucky enough to have a good friendly local butcher
0:17:49 > 0:17:51on hand to tell us whether the meat we're eating is safe,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54so we have enlisted the help of two thoroughly different meat eaters
0:17:54 > 0:17:58to put their different preferred cooking types to the test.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04Every day, in restaurants all over the country,
0:18:04 > 0:18:06countless waiters ask the same question...
0:18:06 > 0:18:08"How would you like your meat cooked?"
0:18:08 > 0:18:11And we've all got our own particular response.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14I wouldn't eat pink pork. Erm...
0:18:14 > 0:18:16Pink beef, lamb, yes, but I'd be very particular
0:18:16 > 0:18:18about where I bought it from.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20Meat, I like medium,
0:18:20 > 0:18:22I like it a bit red in the middle, but not too red
0:18:22 > 0:18:25where the blood's dripping all over the place.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28I just like to be always on the safe side with it.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30I know a lot of people like it nearly rare
0:18:30 > 0:18:32but it's not for me, that.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34I used to like the blood running,
0:18:34 > 0:18:37when you cut it and the blood follows the knife,
0:18:37 > 0:18:39I used to like the beef like that.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43For me, a great steak is medium,
0:18:43 > 0:18:46and any other meats just have to be cooked through.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49But it appears that advice, from newspapers to restaurants,
0:18:49 > 0:18:52and even the people who set the rules, all seem to be different.
0:18:52 > 0:18:56So, while one paper will warn that a rare gourmet beefburger
0:18:56 > 0:18:59might be harbouring dangerous bugs,
0:18:59 > 0:19:01another will declare it's apparently safe to eat,
0:19:01 > 0:19:03but only in restaurants and not at home.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08So, with an increasing number of restaurants revelling
0:19:08 > 0:19:09in serving red meat pink,
0:19:09 > 0:19:12I want to find out what's safe and what's not.
0:19:14 > 0:19:18And as I can't rely on the papers to give me a clear answer,
0:19:18 > 0:19:20I'm recruiting two enthusiastic carnivores
0:19:20 > 0:19:22with very different approaches to cooking
0:19:22 > 0:19:25to settle this quandary once and for all.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28First, there's Sarah Neild from Cheshire,
0:19:28 > 0:19:32who takes her love of rare meat to the extremes.
0:19:32 > 0:19:34I think pork, beef and lamb
0:19:34 > 0:19:37are safe to eat down to raw
0:19:37 > 0:19:41because people eat them that way across the world.
0:19:41 > 0:19:43So, I think that's safe.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47Well, she's certainly braver than me.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50Next up is someone who couldn't disagree with Sarah more,
0:19:50 > 0:19:52Nomsa Masamvi from Salford.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55It has been about five minutes, but it's got a little bit longer to go
0:19:55 > 0:19:58because it's still quite undercooked in the middle.
0:19:58 > 0:20:02She simply hates the sight of blood in her meat.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05Nomsa's worried that unless she cooks it for a long time,
0:20:05 > 0:20:07she won't kill off the harmful bacteria
0:20:07 > 0:20:09that she fears could give her food poisoning.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14And you can understand her concerns, especially after newspaper reports
0:20:14 > 0:20:18saying that some meats and meat products contain dangerous bacteria
0:20:18 > 0:20:21that can only be killed off when the meat's thoroughly cooked through...
0:20:21 > 0:20:24which is exactly the way Nomsa does it.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29Because it's still undercooked, I still think that there is still
0:20:29 > 0:20:32some bacteria in the meat, and that might cause me
0:20:32 > 0:20:35to have food poisoning or get ill in some way.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38It is pretty clear that Sarah and Nomsa are polar opposites
0:20:38 > 0:20:41when it comes to how they like their meat cooked.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43But is either of them right?
0:20:43 > 0:20:45I've asked them to help me investigate which meats
0:20:45 > 0:20:47it's safe to eat pink and which might leave them
0:20:47 > 0:20:51with a nasty bout of food poisoning.
0:20:51 > 0:20:52I hope you don't mind, but I've taken the liberty
0:20:52 > 0:20:54of ordering some food for you.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57'So, let's see how pink these two are prepared to go.'
0:20:59 > 0:21:02So, we've got a lamb chop, a nice piece of steak and a burger.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05So, if we start with the steak.
0:21:05 > 0:21:09Reasonably rare. Maybe sort of medium-rare, I would say, actually.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13How does that look to you? Appetising, or is that...?
0:21:13 > 0:21:16No, terrible. When you look at the blood, you think,
0:21:16 > 0:21:19"Oh, is this safe enough for me to eat?" You know?
0:21:19 > 0:21:22So, that's kind of off-putting for me.
0:21:22 > 0:21:23Even if you were really hungry?
0:21:23 > 0:21:26No! Maybe I'll eat the veg but not the meat.
0:21:28 > 0:21:29So it's a no from Nomsa,
0:21:29 > 0:21:33and, perhaps unsurprisingly, a resounding yes from Sarah.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36I would expect it a little bit bloodier than that.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38- I'd eat that, and it looks very appetising...- Yeah.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41..but that's probably a tad over where I would want it.
0:21:42 > 0:21:44To see how rare Nomsa will go,
0:21:44 > 0:21:46I have ordered the lamb chop only slightly pink.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50OK, I mean, that's... I think that's...
0:21:50 > 0:21:53That's not particularly pink, is it, for lamb?
0:21:53 > 0:21:56- No. You would eat that one?- I would eat that, yeah.
0:21:56 > 0:21:58- You'd eat...? Oh.- Yeah, that one's not as bad.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00- Not as bad.- No!
0:22:00 > 0:22:02- High praise indeed(!) - SHE LAUGHS
0:22:02 > 0:22:06'Next up is the dish that keeps headline writers busy - the burger.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09'Is it or is it not safe to eat pink?
0:22:09 > 0:22:13'Well, I, for one, am a bit nervous about blood in my burger.'
0:22:13 > 0:22:15I wouldn't eat a burger like that.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18With the beef I'm fine, but with the burger I'm maybe a little bit more
0:22:18 > 0:22:21apprehensive - what about you?
0:22:21 > 0:22:22How would you get on with that?
0:22:22 > 0:22:25- With this one, it definitely needs a little more cooking.- Yeah.
0:22:25 > 0:22:29Well, I'd eat it. It's actually pinker than I thought it would be.
0:22:29 > 0:22:31- Yeah.- But, yeah, I'd eat it.
0:22:31 > 0:22:35While Nomsa's worries are all to do with the bugs and bacteria
0:22:35 > 0:22:36that might be in the meat,
0:22:36 > 0:22:39Sarah thinks that if you are confident about where it comes from,
0:22:39 > 0:22:41there's no need to worry.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43- I buy from our local butcher... - Mmm.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46- ..and their food is all traceable... - Yep.
0:22:46 > 0:22:50..so, I would cook their mince into a burger
0:22:50 > 0:22:54and have it pink at home without any qualms.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57But I wouldn't do that with a lot of...
0:22:57 > 0:23:00Certainly not with a pre-made supermarket burger.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04And Sarah's confidence even extends to the one wildcard dish
0:23:04 > 0:23:06I've kept for the end - pork.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08While the Food Standards Agency says it's a meat
0:23:08 > 0:23:11that absolutely must be cooked through,
0:23:11 > 0:23:14restaurants all over the country are now serving it pink too,
0:23:14 > 0:23:17and leading food magazines are even suggesting
0:23:17 > 0:23:20it can be eaten pink at home.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23No prizes for guessing Nomsa isn't convinced,
0:23:23 > 0:23:25but Sarah does eat pink pork.
0:23:25 > 0:23:27- Why is that? - Because it'll be moister.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30- I just think pork goes dry so quickly...- Yeah.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34..that I'd rather err on the side of it being juicier.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36But for me,
0:23:36 > 0:23:38undercooked or pink pork would...
0:23:39 > 0:23:41Would scare the pants off of me, I think.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43- HE LAUGHS - So, let's have a look at this.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45Prepare to be scared, then, I think.
0:23:45 > 0:23:48- Would you eat that?- No. - Would you eat it?
0:23:48 > 0:23:50- Aww...- You're hesitant, aren't you?
0:23:50 > 0:23:53Do you know what? I think I probably would.
0:23:53 > 0:23:54But that would be the...
0:23:54 > 0:23:57- That would be your limit.- Would you have it any less cooked than that?
0:23:57 > 0:23:59Em...
0:23:59 > 0:24:01Well, I probably would.
0:24:01 > 0:24:03Pork is not a meat I eat an awful lot.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06I'd certainly be happy to eat that, and it looks lovely.
0:24:06 > 0:24:10'But while Sarah's confident about the pork sold by her local butcher,
0:24:10 > 0:24:13'she wouldn't be quite so gung ho buying from a supermarket
0:24:13 > 0:24:16'where she doesn't know where the meat came from.
0:24:16 > 0:24:20'Last summer, the MRSA superbug was found in pork on sale
0:24:20 > 0:24:22'in two British supermarkets,
0:24:22 > 0:24:25'and while it was only found in very small amounts,
0:24:25 > 0:24:27'it certainly made me think about how to make sure
0:24:27 > 0:24:30'all the meat I eat is actually safe.'
0:24:31 > 0:24:33I, for one, would very much like to
0:24:33 > 0:24:35go and seek more advice from an expert.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38- Would you like to come along?- Yes, we would.- Yes, that would be great.
0:24:38 > 0:24:40Brilliant. Let's go.
0:24:40 > 0:24:43'Even though the three of us all have different ideas about
0:24:43 > 0:24:46'what's safe to eat, our concerns are all based on the same thing -
0:24:46 > 0:24:49'the question of whether bugs or bacteria in the meat
0:24:49 > 0:24:51'are killed when we cook it.'
0:24:53 > 0:24:58A week ago, I asked Dr Chloe James from the University of Salford
0:24:58 > 0:25:00to test out just that.
0:25:00 > 0:25:04She lathered three steaks with high levels of listeria and E. coli
0:25:04 > 0:25:07to see whether cooking the meat would kill enough bacteria
0:25:07 > 0:25:10to protect us from the nasty effects of eating them.
0:25:10 > 0:25:12If that particular type of E. coli
0:25:12 > 0:25:16was on the beef, for example, it produces a highly potent toxin.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20It causes a lot of haemorrhage, a lot of damage in the kidneys.
0:25:20 > 0:25:24Listeria can lead to fever, diarrhoea,
0:25:24 > 0:25:26vomiting, muscle aches.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30One of the steaks was cooked until it was well done,
0:25:30 > 0:25:33one was cooked in the style usually called blue,
0:25:33 > 0:25:35for about 90 seconds on each side,
0:25:35 > 0:25:39and the third was left completely raw, so not cooked at all.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42Next, she sampled the surface of the meat,
0:25:42 > 0:25:45and left those samples to grow cultures.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48Now, the vast majority of meat bought in butchers and supermarkets
0:25:48 > 0:25:52isn't contaminated with anything like the amount of bacteria
0:25:52 > 0:25:53Chloe laced our steaks with.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55So, will cooking kill it all off?
0:25:56 > 0:25:59- Nice to meet you.- Hi, Nomsa, nice to meet you.- I'm Sarah.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02Sarah, Nomsa and I have come to get the results.
0:26:02 > 0:26:03What do the test results show?
0:26:03 > 0:26:05I've got some plates that I can show you, here.
0:26:05 > 0:26:06Yeah, please, yeah.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09'So, this is the plate showing the level of E. coli bacteria
0:26:09 > 0:26:11'found on the uncooked steak.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14'Unsurprisingly, it's almost completely dark,
0:26:14 > 0:26:17'meaning the plate is covered in bacteria.
0:26:17 > 0:26:21'But after cooking, even just for 90 seconds on each side,
0:26:21 > 0:26:24'a massive proportion of the bacteria was killed.'
0:26:24 > 0:26:28So, the blue steak, you can see it's a significant reduction,
0:26:28 > 0:26:33from about a quarter of a million cells on the raw steak,
0:26:33 > 0:26:35there are about 4,000 cells here,
0:26:35 > 0:26:39that is about a 98% reduction in the number of E. coli cells.
0:26:40 > 0:26:43So, if cooking the steak for such a short period of time
0:26:43 > 0:26:46has killed off most of the E. coli,
0:26:46 > 0:26:50no prizes for guessing what Chloe found on the well-done steak.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52Absolutely nothing grew whatsoever.
0:26:52 > 0:26:54The same goes for listeria.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57None at all survived on the surface of the well-done steak,
0:26:57 > 0:27:01and only a tiny amount of listeria was left on the rare steak.
0:27:01 > 0:27:05After cooking for a minute and a half each side,
0:27:05 > 0:27:10you can see a single listeria cell has survived.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13Chloe says that such a tiny amount of listeria is very unlikely
0:27:13 > 0:27:16to have any adverse effects if it was eaten.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19I would still be happy to eat a steak
0:27:19 > 0:27:22that was cooked rare.
0:27:22 > 0:27:25I don't think it would pose any particular harm.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28So, even though there are still traces of both
0:27:28 > 0:27:32listeria and E. coli on the blue sample?
0:27:32 > 0:27:34- Absolutely.- Not to the level that you think
0:27:34 > 0:27:37we should be concerned about eating it.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40The reason I am not worried from the results of this experiment
0:27:40 > 0:27:41is that we started with an
0:27:41 > 0:27:43incredibly high number of E. coli cells
0:27:43 > 0:27:46but it's highly unlikely that that number of cells,
0:27:46 > 0:27:50particularly the number of E. coli O157 cells, would be present.
0:27:50 > 0:27:54And so I don't think that's particular cause for concern.
0:27:54 > 0:27:57OK, so, I mean, that must be music to your ears, Nomsa, mustn't it?
0:27:57 > 0:28:00- I am smiling all the way. - So, yours is completely safe.
0:28:00 > 0:28:05How do you feel, Sarah? Because you are a big fan of rare steak.
0:28:05 > 0:28:08Yeah. When it's infected, clearly there's an issue
0:28:08 > 0:28:11if you have got an E. coli infection on the surface of meat,
0:28:11 > 0:28:16but that's why it's important to source your meat well.
0:28:16 > 0:28:19With steaks, the harmful bacteria is only present
0:28:19 > 0:28:20on the surface of the meat.
0:28:20 > 0:28:24It doesn't penetrate inside, so is killed when the surface gets hot.
0:28:24 > 0:28:27But Chloe says the same isn't true with pork,
0:28:27 > 0:28:30so while it may have become fashionable for restaurants
0:28:30 > 0:28:33to serve it pink, Chloe really wouldn't advise it.
0:28:33 > 0:28:37The pork can be tenderised and be injected with things
0:28:37 > 0:28:39- so that anything on the surface... - Could be pushed in.
0:28:39 > 0:28:42- ..could be introduced into the pork muscle as well.- Yes, yes.
0:28:42 > 0:28:45So, pork is very important to cook thoroughly as well.
0:28:45 > 0:28:49And that advice is echoed by the Food Standards Agency,
0:28:49 > 0:28:52the government body responsible for setting guidelines
0:28:52 > 0:28:54on how we should cook our food.
0:28:54 > 0:28:56It says, "Wherever you buy it from,
0:28:56 > 0:29:01"any kind of pork should be cooked through until the juices run clear."
0:29:01 > 0:29:05But the FSA's advice on burgers isn't quite so straightforward,
0:29:05 > 0:29:08which is what's led to some of those confusing headlines saying
0:29:08 > 0:29:11some burgers are OK to eat pink when others aren't.
0:29:11 > 0:29:15So, we asked the FSA's Steve Wearne to put the record straight.
0:29:15 > 0:29:19When you're cooking burgers at home, you should cook them until they're
0:29:19 > 0:29:23done all the way through, there's no pink, the juices run clear,
0:29:23 > 0:29:25and that it's piping hot.
0:29:25 > 0:29:28The reason is that burgers simply aren't the same as steak.
0:29:28 > 0:29:31If you think about a steak, the bugs are on the outside,
0:29:31 > 0:29:33so if you sear the steak you kill the bugs.
0:29:33 > 0:29:37If you then make a burger from that same piece of steak,
0:29:37 > 0:29:41you're mincing it up, so what was on the outside is now on the inside,
0:29:41 > 0:29:43and so you need to cook it thoroughly, all the way through.
0:29:45 > 0:29:47So, if that's true, how come some restaurants
0:29:47 > 0:29:49are able to serve their burgers pink
0:29:49 > 0:29:52without giving us all food poisoning?
0:29:52 > 0:29:55Well, it depends on how each restaurant makes their burgers,
0:29:55 > 0:29:59and if they can prove that it's safe to serve pink.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01We know that there are some restaurants
0:30:01 > 0:30:05who have controls in their kitchens,
0:30:05 > 0:30:08and all the way up the food chain where they source from,
0:30:08 > 0:30:12where the slaughterhouses have taken particular precautions,
0:30:12 > 0:30:17and we say that eating a burger less than thoroughly cooked
0:30:17 > 0:30:20in a restaurant is unacceptable
0:30:20 > 0:30:24unless there are those controls all the way through the chain.
0:30:24 > 0:30:29But we do also say that children and people who are elderly or vulnerable
0:30:29 > 0:30:32shouldn't eat raw burgers or rare burgers anywhere.
0:30:33 > 0:30:36If you're uncertain about the restaurant that's serving you
0:30:36 > 0:30:39a pink burger, just ask them to explain how they can be sure
0:30:39 > 0:30:44it's safe, or ask for it to be a little bit more well-done.
0:30:44 > 0:30:47Like beef, lamb is OK to eat rare if it's a whole piece of meat
0:30:47 > 0:30:50that's been seared on the outside, but again, if it's been minced
0:30:50 > 0:30:53it needs to be cooked through.
0:30:53 > 0:30:57Back in Manchester, and time for me to catch up with Sarah and Nomsa
0:30:57 > 0:31:01to see if they have changed their minds over how to cook meats.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04- So, I thought that was really interesting.- Yeah, it was really interesting.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07What did you think about the pork - did that make you change your mind?
0:31:07 > 0:31:10Erm... It's made me think I want to look into it some more.
0:31:10 > 0:31:12- Mh-hm.- Yes, definitely.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14And the burger, did that make you think?
0:31:14 > 0:31:18Ew, I wouldn't be eating any medium-rare burgers.
0:31:18 > 0:31:19I will get them well-done,
0:31:19 > 0:31:22and if they come served without them asking me, you know,
0:31:22 > 0:31:23"How do you like it done?" then...
0:31:23 > 0:31:26- It's getting sent back. - Yeah, exactly.
0:31:26 > 0:31:28So, I suppose the million dollar question is...
0:31:28 > 0:31:31how are you going to order your steak?
0:31:31 > 0:31:32Blue, please.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35- Blue.- Can I have mine well-done, no blood?
0:31:35 > 0:31:38So, no change. I'll have mine medium, please.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41- Thank you very much.- Thank you. - Thank you.
0:31:49 > 0:31:52So, there you have it, it's not just a case of preference after all.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55Some meat really is not safe to eat rare,
0:31:55 > 0:31:57and that is what today's programme is all about,
0:31:57 > 0:32:01finding out the truth behind those very confident headlines
0:32:01 > 0:32:03that aren't necessarily quite what they seem.
0:32:03 > 0:32:07And while we were given a bum steer by the ones we saw earlier about
0:32:07 > 0:32:11oily fish being bad for us, that is nothing compared to the impression
0:32:11 > 0:32:13you might get when you read this next headline.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16It says, "Beware of cutting back on salt,
0:32:16 > 0:32:19"it could even give you a heart attack."
0:32:19 > 0:32:21Now that story was reported in lots of the papers
0:32:21 > 0:32:24and they all seem to say roughly the same thing,
0:32:24 > 0:32:28that while too much salt can lead to conditions like heart disease,
0:32:28 > 0:32:31too little might be just as bad for you.
0:32:31 > 0:32:33- So, confusing.- Yeah, that is really hard to believe.
0:32:33 > 0:32:37And when we saw that headline we just had to get to the bottom of it,
0:32:37 > 0:32:39so we asked Paralympic gold medallist Danny Crates
0:32:39 > 0:32:41to investigate.
0:32:47 > 0:32:51Even before I won my medal in the Paralympics, I always loved running.
0:32:51 > 0:32:53And I still do.
0:32:53 > 0:32:55But short distances are my thing.
0:32:58 > 0:33:02So I must confess, what this lot are about to do fills me with dread -
0:33:02 > 0:33:05an epic 30-mile ultramarathon.
0:33:05 > 0:33:09It's on cold days like this that I am certainly glad I have hung up my
0:33:09 > 0:33:14running shoes. I definitely do not envy these athletes behind me.
0:33:14 > 0:33:15But the reason I'm here today is,
0:33:15 > 0:33:19whilst these competitors will be concerned about strains, sprains,
0:33:19 > 0:33:24and whatever else this 30-mile, gruelling course will throw at them,
0:33:24 > 0:33:26there may be something else going on in their bodies
0:33:26 > 0:33:28and that could be dangerous.
0:33:29 > 0:33:33And that is because tough endurance races like this one could see
0:33:33 > 0:33:37the levels of sodium in their blood plunge to dangerously low levels.
0:33:37 > 0:33:40Our blood sodium is controlled by the amount of salt we eat,
0:33:40 > 0:33:43but when these runners stop for a drink en route,
0:33:43 > 0:33:45they will dilute their sodium levels
0:33:45 > 0:33:49and if they fall too far, it could lead to dizziness, headaches,
0:33:49 > 0:33:53nausea and, in extreme cases, it could even be fatal.
0:33:53 > 0:33:57Some runners aim to prevent this by eating a little more salt.
0:33:57 > 0:34:00Now, normally that is a hugely controversial message
0:34:00 > 0:34:04because, for years, we have been told salt is bad for us.
0:34:04 > 0:34:05It raises the blood pressure,
0:34:05 > 0:34:07which increases your risk of strokes
0:34:07 > 0:34:09and heart disease.
0:34:09 > 0:34:10So I can't be the only one
0:34:10 > 0:34:12to have been amazed to read that
0:34:12 > 0:34:15instead of worrying about eating too much salt,
0:34:15 > 0:34:16we might actually be harming
0:34:16 > 0:34:18our health by eating too little.
0:34:19 > 0:34:20So while I try to find out
0:34:20 > 0:34:22if I need to take these claims
0:34:22 > 0:34:24with a hefty pinch of...well, salt,
0:34:24 > 0:34:27Dr Stephen Mears from Loughborough University is going
0:34:27 > 0:34:29to run some tests on these runners
0:34:29 > 0:34:33to see what impact a gruelling race has on their sodium levels.
0:34:34 > 0:34:39Would you expect many of the runners here today to suffer from salt
0:34:39 > 0:34:43- loss?- We might see some, sort of, maybe 10% in ultra-races,
0:34:43 > 0:34:46pushing up towards 20, 30% and they are the ones we need to look at
0:34:46 > 0:34:48in case there's any serious problems.
0:34:48 > 0:34:51The telltale signs of low sodium levels should be easy
0:34:51 > 0:34:54for the runners themselves to spot during the race.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56You might start seeing some bloatedness,
0:34:56 > 0:34:58you might feel discomfort in your stomach.
0:34:58 > 0:35:00You might vomit some water up.
0:35:00 > 0:35:02You might start feeling dizzy, nauseous.
0:35:02 > 0:35:04And this will gradually increase if you continue
0:35:04 > 0:35:07at the same fluid ingestion rate.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10You cannot underplay this. People do die.
0:35:10 > 0:35:14Yes, there's been several deaths in the last 15-20 years.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17But some of the runners I met were prepared.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19I usually have a steak.
0:35:19 > 0:35:21New potatoes, lots of salt on.
0:35:21 > 0:35:25And on a longer run, about 60 miles, people just feed me potatoes,
0:35:25 > 0:35:28with salt just sprinkled on.
0:35:28 > 0:35:30Others, however, did not seem so worried.
0:35:30 > 0:35:35Do you ever put any thought into sodium in your body - like too much,
0:35:35 > 0:35:37too little? Do you have any thoughts on that?
0:35:37 > 0:35:39I know about losing quite a bit through sweat.
0:35:39 > 0:35:41I'm not sure I necessarily think about replacing the salt.
0:35:41 > 0:35:46- ANNOUNCER:- Five, four, three, two, one, go.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52Well, in a few moments, we'll see how a race like this one
0:35:52 > 0:35:56can affect the levels of sodium in the runners' bodies.
0:35:56 > 0:35:59Good effort. Keep going.
0:35:59 > 0:36:03But, of course, not many of us run an ultramarathon in our spare time,
0:36:03 > 0:36:07so the idea of not consuming enough salt is probably something
0:36:07 > 0:36:09we never even thought could be a problem
0:36:09 > 0:36:11until we read it in the papers.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13Their story said that just like
0:36:13 > 0:36:15eating too much salt,
0:36:15 > 0:36:16a diet that is low in it
0:36:16 > 0:36:18could cause a heart attack
0:36:18 > 0:36:19and one report even declared
0:36:19 > 0:36:21salt is healthy.
0:36:21 > 0:36:24What is the truth? I'm sure it is not just me
0:36:24 > 0:36:26that really needs to know.
0:36:26 > 0:36:31But I must confess, ever since I competed in Celebrity MasterChef
0:36:31 > 0:36:33in 2015, I have gone to town with salt in my cooking.
0:36:35 > 0:36:36Perfect.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39Professional chefs do the same and I can see why
0:36:39 > 0:36:41because it is a taste I love.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44But as a result, I'm fairly sure that I eat too much.
0:36:49 > 0:36:51So to see if I am overdoing it,
0:36:51 > 0:36:55I'm going to meet nutritional therapist Dee Brereton-Patel.
0:36:55 > 0:36:57- Hi, Dee. How are you doing, are you all right?- I'm good, thanks.
0:36:57 > 0:36:59Good to meet you, Danny.
0:36:59 > 0:37:01Dee, I love salt, you know? I put it on my food.
0:37:01 > 0:37:05How much should I really be putting in my body each day?
0:37:05 > 0:37:09The government guidelines say that for adults we should be taking in
0:37:09 > 0:37:11no more than 6g of salt per day.
0:37:11 > 0:37:14That is equivalent to a teaspoon.
0:37:14 > 0:37:17So when you put it like that it doesn't sound like very much.
0:37:17 > 0:37:19It is a sum of all our salt,
0:37:19 > 0:37:23so it is the salt that is already present in the food we buy,
0:37:23 > 0:37:26plus the salt we add to foods at home.
0:37:26 > 0:37:30On average, we each eat around 8g of salt a day.
0:37:30 > 0:37:32So, if six is the recommended limit,
0:37:32 > 0:37:34we're eating a third more than we should.
0:37:34 > 0:37:37So, Dee, this teaspoon of salt is roughly 6g.
0:37:37 > 0:37:38That is my daily allowance.
0:37:38 > 0:37:43- That's right.- I have to be honest, I would probably put that on one meal.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46But even before you have sprinkled on any extra,
0:37:46 > 0:37:48there is salt in almost everything you eat.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51A small tin of beans will give you about 1.2g of salt.
0:37:51 > 0:37:54A chicken breast has 0.2g.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57And this bowl of soup alone has 3g,
0:37:57 > 0:37:59almost half our daily allowance.
0:37:59 > 0:38:02But that's nothing compared to my favourite breakfast.
0:38:02 > 0:38:04A bacon butty.
0:38:04 > 0:38:06We know there's salt in bacon.
0:38:06 > 0:38:08But the bread is all right, OK?
0:38:08 > 0:38:09You'd be surprised.
0:38:09 > 0:38:13One slice of bread has 0.4g of salt in.
0:38:13 > 0:38:14So I would have three.
0:38:14 > 0:38:16That is 1.2g of salt already.
0:38:16 > 0:38:17That's right. Yeah.
0:38:17 > 0:38:22You're getting about 2.25g of salt in those two rashers of bacon.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24But I'm not just having two rashers of bacon.
0:38:24 > 0:38:26- I'm probably up to four rashers of bacon...- OK.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29- ..to fill my three slices of bread. - Yeah.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32So that is 4.5 there, 1.2 there,
0:38:32 > 0:38:34you've pretty much reached your daily intake
0:38:34 > 0:38:39- without putting any ketchup on. - Or butter.- Or butter.
0:38:39 > 0:38:41Well, it's already pretty obvious
0:38:41 > 0:38:43that I'm definitely having too much salt,
0:38:43 > 0:38:46which makes me wonder what all those headlines about the risks of eating
0:38:46 > 0:38:49too little were really going on about.
0:38:49 > 0:38:52While it is easy to see how the ultramarathon runners might dilute
0:38:52 > 0:38:54the sodium in their blood,
0:38:54 > 0:38:57I find it really far-fetched to think the rest of us could
0:38:57 > 0:38:59possibly eat so little salt it is bad for us,
0:38:59 > 0:39:02as those headlines seem to suggest.
0:39:05 > 0:39:08And as it turns out, I'm right to be sceptical
0:39:08 > 0:39:11because Professor Franco Cappuccio from the World Health Organization
0:39:11 > 0:39:14says that the study the papers are quoting
0:39:14 > 0:39:17wasn't quite as simple as the reports made out.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21The professor has big concerns about the size and health of the group
0:39:21 > 0:39:24measured in the study, which in any case took a different approach
0:39:24 > 0:39:29to what constitutes too little salt that most experts would recognise,
0:39:29 > 0:39:30including in its sample
0:39:30 > 0:39:34people consuming much more than the usual limit of 6g.
0:39:34 > 0:39:37The low salt group that we are looking at is
0:39:37 > 0:39:43about 7.5g of salt or less, far above the recommended values.
0:39:43 > 0:39:45There is no other group studied below that,
0:39:45 > 0:39:48so researchers haven't studied the lower levels.
0:39:48 > 0:39:51Add to that, a confusion in some reports
0:39:51 > 0:39:53between salt and sodium levels
0:39:53 > 0:39:56and the professor says it is easy to see how coverage of the study
0:39:56 > 0:39:59ended up sending a message very different
0:39:59 > 0:40:01to the one we're usually told.
0:40:01 > 0:40:04And while most of his criticisms are around the research itself,
0:40:04 > 0:40:07he believes the reporters didn't properly understand
0:40:07 > 0:40:10or check its conclusions,
0:40:10 > 0:40:13which he reckons could have had a dangerous impact.
0:40:13 > 0:40:18We are bombarded by contrasting news every day. Every day.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20That might have serious consequences.
0:40:20 > 0:40:23People could stop taking drugs because they read one thing.
0:40:23 > 0:40:30Or questioning the wisdom that has been accepted for quite a long time.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33The professor is in no doubt that when it comes to salt,
0:40:33 > 0:40:36the accepted wisdom really is unshakeable.
0:40:36 > 0:40:40So, outside of all the medical jargon, all the facts and figures,
0:40:40 > 0:40:44what you are basically saying is it is common sense, eat less salt,
0:40:44 > 0:40:46we will live a healthier lifestyle
0:40:46 > 0:40:49and have reduced risk of hypertension, heart disease, stroke.
0:40:49 > 0:40:53Absolutely. The evidence relating salt to blood pressure
0:40:53 > 0:40:54is overwhelming.
0:40:54 > 0:40:57If you reduce your salt intake, you reduce your blood pressure.
0:40:57 > 0:41:02So, it is likely that if you reduce blood pressure,
0:41:02 > 0:41:06you reduce a cardiovascular event, there is no argument about that.
0:41:06 > 0:41:11And it's robust and probably the strongest possible evidence we have
0:41:11 > 0:41:13in medicine and public health in modern times.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16CHEERING
0:41:18 > 0:41:21So it turns out the headlines were simply wrong
0:41:21 > 0:41:25and we really don't need to worry about not getting enough salt
0:41:25 > 0:41:28from our food but there's no escaping the fact
0:41:28 > 0:41:30that for the runners of the ultramarathon, at least,
0:41:30 > 0:41:33what they drink could end up dangerously reducing their sodium
0:41:33 > 0:41:34levels during the race.
0:41:34 > 0:41:37So I'm back in Yorkshire to check on their results.
0:41:37 > 0:41:40I have to admit these athletes are a tough breed.
0:41:40 > 0:41:44They've just endured a gruelling 30-mile race.
0:41:44 > 0:41:47But I'll be really interested to see what effect it has had on their
0:41:47 > 0:41:48sodium levels.
0:41:50 > 0:41:54The good news is that Stephen's blood tests gave most of the runners
0:41:54 > 0:41:55the all clear.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01I'm ruined. Everything hurts.
0:42:02 > 0:42:04We're just taking a capillary blood sample,
0:42:04 > 0:42:06so we can take a small amount of blood
0:42:06 > 0:42:08and then we can measure the amount of sodium
0:42:08 > 0:42:10that is in the blood.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14You've got good numbers, in normal ranges again.
0:42:16 > 0:42:18Results were good.
0:42:18 > 0:42:20Serum sodium, the blood sodium concentration was
0:42:20 > 0:42:22within normal ranges.
0:42:22 > 0:42:24In fact, as it was such a cold day,
0:42:24 > 0:42:27very few runners here drank excessive amounts of water.
0:42:27 > 0:42:31So on this occasion, there were no big falls in blood sodium levels.
0:42:31 > 0:42:34Would you have expected to see different sets of results
0:42:34 > 0:42:35had the weather been hot?
0:42:35 > 0:42:38Yeah, we probably would've seen completely different results
0:42:38 > 0:42:39if it was hotter.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41People would have thought, "I need to drink more."
0:42:41 > 0:42:43So it's that perception of how much they drink.
0:42:43 > 0:42:47So thinking, "It's hot today, I need to get more fluids on board."
0:42:50 > 0:42:53So, while the dangers of getting too little salt might make
0:42:53 > 0:42:55great material for headline writers,
0:42:55 > 0:42:57it seems that, in reality, no diet,
0:42:57 > 0:43:00and not even this 30-mile endurance race,
0:43:00 > 0:43:04can see your sodium levels plummet so low that it might be dangerous.
0:43:04 > 0:43:08For this lot, there is something many of them really do need now
0:43:08 > 0:43:10and it is not salt.
0:43:10 > 0:43:14I have been waiting for a cup of tea for about the last 20 miles.
0:43:19 > 0:43:21Now, let's face it, I've been around long enough to know
0:43:21 > 0:43:24that we shouldn't believe everything that we read in the papers.
0:43:24 > 0:43:28But, you know, those salt headlines really did take me by surprise.
0:43:28 > 0:43:31I know. It would have been so easy for people to see them and think
0:43:31 > 0:43:34it's safer to eat more salt when the opposite is true,
0:43:34 > 0:43:36but I guess the same goes for your oily fish, doesn't it?
0:43:36 > 0:43:39It sure does. And by the way, you can find a whole host of delicious
0:43:39 > 0:43:42recipes and lots of ideas for cooking with oily fish.
0:43:42 > 0:43:43That's at...
0:43:46 > 0:43:49We'll be back to debunk some more headlines very soon.
0:43:49 > 0:43:51But for now, though, that is all we have got time for.
0:43:51 > 0:43:54- Thanks for joining us. Until next time, goodbye.- Bye-bye.