Episode 4

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:00:00. > :00:07.Exposure: Islam's Non-Believers is on ITV, tonight at 10.50pm.

:00:08. > :00:09.Time now to get more top tips and consumer advice from Gloria,

:00:10. > :00:15.Angela and Julia in this morning's Rip Off Britain Live.

:00:16. > :00:21.We are getting to the bottom of some of the stories that affect you. We

:00:22. > :00:25.will be looking at the effect technology has had on customer

:00:26. > :00:29.service and looking how aggressive charities are going to be brought

:00:30. > :00:33.into line. And as one big-name company is said, we unpick the

:00:34. > :00:35.fallout from another that was not so lucky. So how safe is your next

:00:36. > :00:54.holiday? When you have to call them, it takes

:00:55. > :00:59.ages, and the person on the phone does not know what your saying. I'm

:01:00. > :01:04.not getting value for money. You have asked us to track down the

:01:05. > :01:09.scammers who stole your money and investigate unfair charges. They do

:01:10. > :01:12.not deserve to be in any kind of business whatsoever, they just want

:01:13. > :01:16.shutting down. And when nobody else is to blame, you have come to us to

:01:17. > :01:21.stop others falling into the same trap. He took the money out of my

:01:22. > :01:27.account and I do not even know who it was that was scamming me. We are

:01:28. > :01:30.here to find out why you are out-of-pocket - and what you can do

:01:31. > :01:34.about it. Your stories, your money. This is Rip Off Britain.

:01:35. > :01:39.Hello and welcome back to Rip Off Britain Live.

:01:40. > :01:42.We really have been pleased as punch to hear from so many

:01:43. > :01:45.of you throughout the week, especially when you tell us just how

:01:46. > :01:47.much you've benefited from the advice you've heard

:01:48. > :01:51.It's our penultimate day of live programmes -

:01:52. > :01:55.which makes us rather sad, as we're having so much fun.

:01:56. > :01:58.But there's still time to tackle plenty of the things you've told

:01:59. > :02:04.So do please keep firing off all your comments and questions!

:02:05. > :02:07.You can email us at RipOffBritain@bbc.co.uk, or look

:02:08. > :02:15.Lots of you have already sent in questions for today's guest,

:02:16. > :02:21.He's got a new role making sure that charities don't go too far

:02:22. > :02:29.We'll hear how he's going to rein them in.

:02:30. > :02:33.The unstoppable rise of the robot - why the loss of that human

:02:34. > :02:35.touch in everyday life really gets your goat.

:02:36. > :02:39.And, he tackles those rogues on a daily basis,

:02:40. > :02:43.but Matt Allwright oozes consumer charm when he gives me his top tips.

:02:44. > :02:49.On top of all that, after we managed to help so many of you yesterday,

:02:50. > :02:54.our drop-in consumer clinic is back with a vengeance.

:02:55. > :02:57.Our pop-up shop veteran Simon Calder will be answering all your holiday

:02:58. > :03:00.And Caroline Wells from the financial ombudsman

:03:01. > :03:07.But first, thousands of customers of travel company

:03:08. > :03:09.Monarch breathed a collective sigh of relief yesterday,

:03:10. > :03:12.when it was announced that it had managed to secure

:03:13. > :03:16.Monarch was able to convince the regulator to renew

:03:17. > :03:18.its Air Travel Operators Licence until next September,

:03:19. > :03:21.meaning thousands of people's travel plans were safeguarded.

:03:22. > :03:23.Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of recent

:03:24. > :03:33.holidaymakers who haven't been so lucky.

:03:34. > :03:40.This summer, more of us than ever took a trip abroad, usually a much

:03:41. > :03:45.anticipated moment which comes after months of planning and saving up.

:03:46. > :03:50.And that was certainly the case for this family from Rochdale. Mum and

:03:51. > :03:53.dad had been determined to make sure that this year's holiday was extra

:03:54. > :04:00.special for their children, Bradley and violet. Normally when we go on

:04:01. > :04:03.holiday, we go camping. We've been camping for the last couple of

:04:04. > :04:08.years. But last year when we went, it was not the best weather. So, the

:04:09. > :04:12.family decided to do their next trip a little differently, I heading for

:04:13. > :04:16.some guaranteed sunshine overseas. It was to be their first family

:04:17. > :04:25.holiday abroad, and they found their perfect destination in Mallorca. The

:04:26. > :04:31.hotel was perfect for what we wanted, right by the beach, a nice,

:04:32. > :04:36.quiet, small hotel, away from all the nightlife, perfect for the kids.

:04:37. > :04:40.They booked a package costing ?1510 for the four of them, which they

:04:41. > :04:45.paid for on their debit card. To us, it is quite a lot of money, so we

:04:46. > :04:50.had to save up. We got the money together to pay for it, and then we

:04:51. > :04:56.had a year to basically save up for spending money whilst we were there.

:04:57. > :04:59.We save as much as we can, the kids have got a team, and they

:05:00. > :05:05.automatically go to it and put it in. That's their holiday money. .

:05:06. > :05:08.And we just save whatever extra money we have. And for one of those

:05:09. > :05:14.children, there was another reason to look forward to the trip. We were

:05:15. > :05:17.due to fly out on the dot at 6.50, and with her never being on a plane

:05:18. > :05:21.before, she was really excited about going to a different country, and

:05:22. > :05:25.she kept telling everybody across her birthday presents to go on

:05:26. > :05:31.holiday. But when they finally set off in the middle of July, things

:05:32. > :05:34.didn't get off to a good start. On landing in Mallorca, their names

:05:35. > :05:37.were not down on the list for a transfer to the hotel. Although the

:05:38. > :05:42.driver did agree to take them, there was more confusion when they

:05:43. > :05:48.arrived. When we went to check in, the manager of the hotel looked a

:05:49. > :05:53.bit as old. He asked if we had the right date. We said we had booked a

:05:54. > :05:58.holiday a year in advance. The hotel staff did give them a temporary room

:05:59. > :06:00.and told them they would sort everything out while the family went

:06:01. > :06:06.out for the day. But on their return, they were in for another

:06:07. > :06:08.shock. It turned out, despite sending a confirmation e-mail, the

:06:09. > :06:14.holiday company had never actually completed the booking. So they would

:06:15. > :06:20.be moving the family to another hotel. We had to pack everything up

:06:21. > :06:24.in the room and put runners up for her birthday, and the balloons and

:06:25. > :06:28.everything, in the room, so we had to take all of that down. Exhausted,

:06:29. > :06:33.and with their daughter's birthday plans scuppered, Daniel and Kelly

:06:34. > :06:37.had no choice but to take a taxi to the new hotel, ready to start the

:06:38. > :06:43.holiday afresh in the morning. We got up on the Friday morning, got

:06:44. > :06:46.the rubber rings that we had bought, and we went on the beach for the

:06:47. > :06:51.day, and the kids absolutely loved it, didn't they? Spent a full day on

:06:52. > :06:55.the beach and they were in the same most of the day, they loved it. We

:06:56. > :06:58.said, we've made it now, we're here, let's just make the most of it.

:06:59. > :07:05.Although it seemed their troubles were behind, in fact they were only

:07:06. > :07:10.just beginning. While they were on the beach, the rest of the world was

:07:11. > :07:16.hearing the news that the Low Cost Holiday Group had gone bust. 130,000

:07:17. > :07:19.people have been affect the after the holiday firm the Low Cost

:07:20. > :07:23.Holiday Group has gone bust... It blamed the financial uncertainty due

:07:24. > :07:28.to the EU referendum... From small beginnings in 2004, Low Cost Holiday

:07:29. > :07:32.Group had come to be one of the biggest names in holiday travel,

:07:33. > :07:40.albeit one that after receiving lots of complaints, we had looked into

:07:41. > :07:44.before. Its collapse not only affected 27,000 customers already

:07:45. > :07:51.abroad but 110,000 others who had booked and paid for holidays still

:07:52. > :07:53.to come. But during that one day on the beach, the family were

:07:54. > :07:57.blissfully unaware of any of this, and it was only when they were

:07:58. > :08:08.turned to their room that Daniel had a call asking him to go to

:08:09. > :08:11.reception. They just had a print of saying that Low Cost had gone into

:08:12. > :08:18.administration, and they told us we have to pay the hotel fee or we have

:08:19. > :08:23.to leave. It was a scene being played out countless times across

:08:24. > :08:26.the globe. Holiday-makers who had long since paid for their trips in

:08:27. > :08:33.full were discovering that their Hotels had not received any payment

:08:34. > :08:36.from Low Cost Holiday Group. So families like there's were being

:08:37. > :08:41.told that if they wanted to stay, they would need to stump up the

:08:42. > :08:51.cash, in this case, 3500 euros. Bear in mind, we only paid ?650 for our

:08:52. > :08:58.initial hotel. The hotel they moved us to because they had made a

:08:59. > :09:03.mistake was ?4000 so it was a big difference! We did not have that

:09:04. > :09:08.sort of money. It was just shocked, I felt sick. I just said to the

:09:09. > :09:13.hotel staff, I said, we can't afford to pay that. We won't be able to get

:09:14. > :09:17.home, we will not be able to fly home because we have only brought

:09:18. > :09:20.cash with us, we don't have credit cards. We'll have to leave tonight,

:09:21. > :09:27.we'll have to leave now, we can't stay another night. So we went back

:09:28. > :09:30.up to the room, again, told my wife and kids that we were going to have

:09:31. > :09:35.to leave, and the kids were devastated, trying. After seeing the

:09:36. > :09:42.family in tears, the hotel took pity on them and agreed not to charge

:09:43. > :09:45.them for their night's stay. In the absence of any assistance from the

:09:46. > :09:49.now-defunct company that they had booked with, it also helped organise

:09:50. > :09:56.transport back to the airport, where the family was forced to head home

:09:57. > :10:00.eight days early. Here at Rip Off Britain, we continue to hear similar

:10:01. > :10:04.stories from others affected by the collapse of Low Cost Holidays. We've

:10:05. > :10:10.just been told the hotel where we are staying, there was no room, and

:10:11. > :10:17.our hotel booking had been cancelled because the hotel had not got paid!

:10:18. > :10:22.Where were we going to stay? I mean, how could you be ripped off so

:10:23. > :10:27.badly, when you've spent so much time saving money for this, and we

:10:28. > :10:31.were really looking forward to a holiday which we both needed. For

:10:32. > :10:35.tens of thousands of suspect and customers, this was a complete bolt

:10:36. > :10:40.out of the blue, especially as just the day before it went under, the

:10:41. > :10:44.company was offering 60% off holidays. Among those unwittingly

:10:45. > :10:49.making a last-minute booking was Sandra from Eastbourne. She had

:10:50. > :10:59.booked a diving holiday to Mexico with her friend Jessica, each of

:11:00. > :11:03.them paying ?3384 for the privilege. They, too, had paid using their

:11:04. > :11:07.debit cards. But less than 24 hours after Sandra had made the booking,

:11:08. > :11:13.Jessica Korda are in a panic. On the Saturday evening, I was getting

:11:14. > :11:16.ready to go out and celebrate my birthday, and Jessica Fullalove

:11:17. > :11:23.about five o'clock in the afternoon, crying her eyes out, and I thought,

:11:24. > :11:27.somebody has died or something. She said, Low Cost Holidays have gone

:11:28. > :11:33.bust. I was standing there on the phone in shock. I said, is this a

:11:34. > :11:37.wind-up? This can't be true! Sandra immediately went online to check her

:11:38. > :11:42.bank account. But Low Cost Holidays had already taken the cash. And

:11:43. > :11:48.there was more bad news to come. After almost ten years of trading

:11:49. > :11:55.from the UK, in 2013, Low Cost Holidays had moved its headquarters

:11:56. > :11:59.to Spain. This meant it no longer offered Atol protected packages. And

:12:00. > :12:03.without Atol protection, Sandra's travel insurance would not cover any

:12:04. > :12:10.of the money that had been lost. When I travelled with Low Cost

:12:11. > :12:16.before, like in 2009, they were with Atol so it did not cross my mind to

:12:17. > :12:19.check them out again. Travelex Burke premises there are things we could

:12:20. > :12:29.all do to make sure that any holiday we book is protected if something

:12:30. > :12:35.goes wrong. -- travel expert Emma. It's really important that you're

:12:36. > :12:38.buying an air package holiday with air and car hire as a package,

:12:39. > :12:42.because only that will be protected. You will not be protected with Atol

:12:43. > :12:47.if you buy something without a flight. Another really good tip is

:12:48. > :12:50.to book with a credit card. If the company goes asked, the credit

:12:51. > :12:53.provider is liable just as much as the provider of the service. And

:12:54. > :12:57.there is also a chargeback service as well which means that you get

:12:58. > :13:02.your provider to ask the retailer's bank to get back your money. What

:13:03. > :13:09.you really, really, really should never do is, don't pay in cash or by

:13:10. > :13:12.bank transfer, on a prepay card, any of those methods are a complete

:13:13. > :13:16.no-no, because you will not have any protection. But that's little

:13:17. > :13:21.protection for those who have already been left out of pocket,

:13:22. > :13:26.with their holidays ruined. How they can do it not only to us but to

:13:27. > :13:32.everyone else. When we found out that it was more than 100,000 people

:13:33. > :13:35.in the same boat, who had paid the money, we were just, what have they

:13:36. > :13:42.done with that money which everybody has paid them? How can someone do

:13:43. > :13:45.that? That is one of the big questions in this case.

:13:46. > :13:49.Well, Paul Evans, the former boss of the Low Cost Holiday Group,

:13:50. > :13:51.tells us he's extremely sorry for what his customers experienced.

:13:52. > :13:54.He says bookings were being taken right up to the last minute

:13:55. > :14:00.because until that point, discussions on selling the company

:14:01. > :14:03.gave a realistic possibility that it would continue to trade.

:14:04. > :14:05.He blames the need for finding a buyer on difficult trading

:14:06. > :14:10.conditions, further impacted by terrorism, Brexit

:14:11. > :14:15.He went on to stress that all passengers in resorts

:14:16. > :14:17.had their return flights home booked and paid for,

:14:18. > :14:20.and the company had placed a bond of over 1 million euros specifically

:14:21. > :14:24.He added that the company had traded for 12 years

:14:25. > :14:26.and taken 12 million people on holiday,

:14:27. > :14:34.but it was overwhelmed by economic circumstances.

:14:35. > :14:38.Well, with me is our travel guru Simon Calder.

:14:39. > :14:44.You are a man in the know, is this something you expected with low-cost

:14:45. > :14:48.holidays? There is always rumours about companies being in

:14:49. > :14:51.difficulties, always will always has been, I had heard rumours but

:14:52. > :14:57.unfortunately, travel accounting is such a dark art, and it all depends

:14:58. > :15:02.when you actually count the money is having arrived and whether you are

:15:03. > :15:09.counting surprises, it is difficult to tell. As this is whom the

:15:10. > :15:13.unfortunate family found out, they had not booked a proper package

:15:14. > :15:18.holiday, if they had done, it would have been very different. Here we

:15:19. > :15:22.are reporting on Monarch continuing their business, if the worst had

:15:23. > :15:27.happened, and its shutdown, a couple of weeks ago that looked like it was

:15:28. > :15:33.possible, people on holiday would be having a very easy time. Going back

:15:34. > :15:37.to the company, Low Cost, were taking money but not paying it to

:15:38. > :15:42.hotels at the other end, is that common practice and is it legal? It

:15:43. > :15:46.is legal, online travel agents, the airline say, pay us the money right

:15:47. > :15:50.now, so you pay the money to the company and they pass it the

:15:51. > :15:55.airline. The hotels can come up with whatever deal they want to. Very

:15:56. > :16:00.sadly, quite often, companies will take people's money in, not pass it

:16:01. > :16:04.on, because it does wonders for your cash flow! You mentioned Monarch and

:16:05. > :16:08.people breathed a huge sigh of relief when they realise that they

:16:09. > :16:11.have been rescued, as it were, at its not been, we would have been in

:16:12. > :16:15.a position today when thousands of people were in the same situation.

:16:16. > :16:19.They would not have been in the same position, anything like that,

:16:20. > :16:25.because every British passenger is covered by Atol whether you are

:16:26. > :16:29.booking flight only, unusually with Monarch and with Monarch capital at

:16:30. > :16:34.the holidays. The Civil Aviation Authority would have organised right

:16:35. > :16:37.times and said to the hotel owners, we are the British government, we

:16:38. > :16:43.will pay, that would have been smoother. If you want gold-plated

:16:44. > :16:47.protection, that is the way to do it, booking a British holiday with

:16:48. > :16:52.Atol-protection. We heard that this was because of Brexit, and concerns

:16:53. > :16:56.over the pound falling, you have had a look at what it is doing today.

:16:57. > :16:59.Not good news. Heading the wrong way, that means if you are going on

:17:00. > :17:06.holiday, your euros and dollars will cost you more. If you are going to

:17:07. > :17:10.Dubai, it is awful, it is as though... I have just come back from

:17:11. > :17:14.Abu Dhabi, actually, and it is as though all of the prices have gone

:17:15. > :17:17.up by one fifth, that is the problem we are facing. We asked in the

:17:18. > :17:22.European Union but down the line, what are the problems we will face

:17:23. > :17:25.with Brexit? We will face issues, I wouldn't say problems, European

:17:26. > :17:30.health insurance card entitles you to treatment in all the other EU

:17:31. > :17:34.countries, clearly, if we are not in the EU, that will no longer apply.

:17:35. > :17:37.We may have a similar deal. Your good old British passport which will

:17:38. > :17:41.get you happily into those countries, without formality, it

:17:42. > :17:45.could be they are looking at a new scheme where we would have to

:17:46. > :17:49.register online and tell the system the plans for travelling to Spain or

:17:50. > :17:54.France or Italy, and quite possibly have to pay for it as well. But that

:17:55. > :17:58.is down the line. At the moment, we are still all right, except we still

:17:59. > :18:01.won't -- we won't have quite so much money in our pockets. Indeed, we are

:18:02. > :18:15.the poor people of Europe. I love Simon, he's always brimming

:18:16. > :18:17.with brilliant advice. Yesterday we told how Amanda Jackson

:18:18. > :18:21.was scammed out of the money to buy her new home,

:18:22. > :18:23.after being tricked into transferring the cash

:18:24. > :18:25.into the fraudster's account, Well quite a few of you sent

:18:26. > :18:30.in the same simple tip to make sure any money transferred ends

:18:31. > :18:32.up in the right place. He says he always sends an initial

:18:33. > :18:36.payment of one pound, then confirms the other party

:18:37. > :18:38.has received it before It not only prevents fraud

:18:39. > :18:42.but protects him if he's made a mistake typing

:18:43. > :18:45.in the right account details. Something else we covered

:18:46. > :18:47.yesterday was the safety

:18:48. > :18:50.of contactless bank cards. John Clarke emailed to say that

:18:51. > :18:52.after watching the piece he got hold

:18:53. > :18:55.of the sort of mobile phone app and was horrified to see it did

:18:56. > :19:00.indeed pick up his card details. He tells us he'll be buying

:19:01. > :19:02.those protective wallets Sheila Tennant says she never

:19:03. > :19:14.misses the programme, not only for the stories, but to see

:19:15. > :19:17.what necklace Gloria is wearing. She asks, "How many

:19:18. > :19:26.does this lady own?" The answer... I would hate to tell

:19:27. > :19:31.you, once I snuff it, we will have a big job sorting through it! I was in

:19:32. > :19:32.Croatia last week, I tell you, jewellery in Croatia is really

:19:33. > :19:42.cheap! Some other recent stories that are

:19:43. > :19:45.prone to quite a response. Lots of you who own pets really loved a

:19:46. > :19:49.great money tip we featured on the programme last month. Sarah from

:19:50. > :19:54.Bristol wrote to us after discovering she could get her cat's

:19:55. > :19:59.asthma medication much cheaper from an ordinary chemist than from the

:20:00. > :20:03.vet. I was very surprised that I could find this medication at a

:20:04. > :20:08.human pharmacy, quite angry at the vet, actually, not sure how they

:20:09. > :20:13.could justify such a mark-up in medication. Sarah still pays the vet

:20:14. > :20:20.?15 for the prescription but by taking it to buy and the

:20:21. > :20:25.prescription at the local chemist, she can save ?20 a time. Looking at

:20:26. > :20:30.the savings I have made, over ten years, I have saved an incredible

:20:31. > :20:34.amount of money and buying courage others to do the same. Some of you

:20:35. > :20:39.when to do that straightaway, including Annette, she e-mailed to

:20:40. > :20:44.say how her labrador's medicine had been costing ?97 a month, but after

:20:45. > :20:47.hearing the advice from Sarah, she discovered she could get it at the

:20:48. > :20:54.high-street chemist for ?12, that is a massive saving. And there has been

:20:55. > :20:59.great news on another story that we featured last month, Paul Scott

:21:00. > :21:03.Bates had taken up an offer to have cavity wall insulation installed in

:21:04. > :21:08.news home, free of charge, to make it more heat efficient. Then, damp

:21:09. > :21:12.began to appear, over time it only got worse. Paul discovered that

:21:13. > :21:19.while the installation was free to put in, taking it out could cost

:21:20. > :21:23.dozens of pounds. To find now that it is causing problems... --

:21:24. > :21:27.thousands of pounds. It is a problem that we cannot afford to have

:21:28. > :21:33.rectified. Karen Easton from Preston is in the same position, now. It

:21:34. > :21:38.worries me that we will have to pay to take it out, if they will not

:21:39. > :21:42.take responsibility, because we are talking thousands of pounds that we

:21:43. > :21:47.do not have. We introduced Paul and Karen to Pauline Saunders, who after

:21:48. > :21:51.experiencing similar problems are self campaigns to help others in the

:21:52. > :21:57.same boat. I can't guarantee anything, obviously, but it will not

:21:58. > :22:01.be through lack of trying. If we don't get justice for them we will

:22:02. > :22:05.try. Sheen courage Paul and Karen to go through the arbitration scheme of

:22:06. > :22:11.the industry body they expect would help, that is still going on. -- she

:22:12. > :22:16.encouraged. After our report went out, the company offered to take a

:22:17. > :22:21.cavity wall insulation out absolutely free, and we were at

:22:22. > :22:25.Paul's house as work got underway. When we were looking into it,

:22:26. > :22:28.several thousand pounds to get it removed, three days of work, for

:22:29. > :22:32.somebody to make that sort of gesture in time and money is very

:22:33. > :22:37.kind. We are looking forward to having it out and being able to get

:22:38. > :22:42.on, it causes a lot of stress. There is a full bag, which we have

:22:43. > :22:46.finished extracting. I would like to thank them... We are grateful for

:22:47. > :22:49.the advice we have been given. It has saved as money and hopefully it

:22:50. > :22:52.is something that is in the past now. Another of our recent

:22:53. > :22:57.programmes highlighted concerns over money raising tactics used by some

:22:58. > :23:01.of Britain's best-known charities. Peter Burrows from Castle Bromwich

:23:02. > :23:04.speaks for many when he says that he is fed up of charities he has

:23:05. > :23:11.already given to writing to asking for more. I find that a bit

:23:12. > :23:16.frustrating, because they are using my money to contact me to try to get

:23:17. > :23:23.more money! That is not the only thing that annoys him. I don't like

:23:24. > :23:27.being contacted by people that I have not contributed to before. I

:23:28. > :23:35.don't like being contacted by people who I think have been sold my

:23:36. > :23:41.address. Concerns over how charities share or trade details were brought

:23:42. > :23:46.into sharp focus in 2015, after lit death of 92-year-old poppy seller

:23:47. > :23:49.Oliver Cook. VOICEOVER: Earlier this month, her body was found in the

:23:50. > :23:53.Avon Gorge, family and friends say that the 92-year-old had a number of

:23:54. > :23:57.worries in the months before she died but she also complained to her

:23:58. > :24:04.local newspaper about the pressure she felt from charities sending her

:24:05. > :24:09.letters asking for money. -- Olive Cooke. After her death, her contact

:24:10. > :24:12.details were found to be on the databases of 99 different charities,

:24:13. > :24:17.she had potentially been sent thousands of mail outs every year.

:24:18. > :24:20.Dame Hilary has worked in the charity sector for 50 years and is

:24:21. > :24:25.disappointing at the way fundraising has changed. Everybody is just

:24:26. > :24:29.concerned with getting the money, squeezing it out of people and

:24:30. > :24:34.indeed bullying them to get the money out of them. It makes for a

:24:35. > :24:37.very unpleasant society. That is an opinion that many of you share.

:24:38. > :24:42.Christopher e-mail to say, the only way he could stop repeated calls

:24:43. > :24:45.from one big charity was by threatening to stop giving

:24:46. > :24:50.altogether. Andreas told us, she gets charities ringing her bell,

:24:51. > :24:57.practically bullying her and shaming her on her own doorstep. -- Andrea.

:24:58. > :24:59.One charity contacted us to say that constant pestering is

:25:00. > :25:01.counter-productive and not in the interest of any charity and it is

:25:02. > :25:11.hard to disagree with that. STUDIO: I'm pleased to be

:25:12. > :25:13.joined now by chairman of the Fundraising Regulator,

:25:14. > :25:15.Lord Michael Grade. Michael, your body has been up

:25:16. > :25:20.and running since July. What other kind of things that

:25:21. > :25:25.people are saying that has upset them? Exactly the kind of problems

:25:26. > :25:29.that you have just shown us from members of the public, that seems to

:25:30. > :25:32.be a common cause for complaint. The great sadness of the case of Olive

:25:33. > :25:37.Cooke, other than the personal tragedy, it did highlight a growing

:25:38. > :25:42.concern, growing bad practice in the charity sector. Is the impression

:25:43. > :25:46.you are getting that people are becoming resistant to giving, or

:25:47. > :25:51.that they feel they are being taken advantage of? We are not quite at

:25:52. > :25:56.that point, but we have got to intervene, to make sure that

:25:57. > :26:01.charities raise funds ethically, and do not invade people's privacy is in

:26:02. > :26:04.ways they do not welcome. We do not want to take for granted the

:26:05. > :26:10.wonderful generosity of the British public. Fabulous givers. They

:26:11. > :26:13.respond wonderfully to causes. We cannot take that for granted and we

:26:14. > :26:19.must not abuse it, that is what we are here to stop. What came out of

:26:20. > :26:24.the film was that people were being invaded somehow, either by phone

:26:25. > :26:27.calls, people knocking on their doors... How do you react when that

:26:28. > :26:34.happens to you? I get very cross indeed. I don't like it. I don't

:26:35. > :26:38.like getting unsolicited texts, I tell them that I am a leading

:26:39. > :26:44.litigation QC! And I'm putting them on notice. I do anything. I never

:26:45. > :26:48.hear from them again. I don't like my doorstep being invaded. The

:26:49. > :26:55.overwhelming majority of people in this country, they are willing to

:26:56. > :27:00.respond to a good cause, causes they identify with, we don't need to be

:27:01. > :27:07.pestered. And harassed. Particularly the vulnerable. Would you say that

:27:08. > :27:11.your organisation has teeth? How much will you be able to do to

:27:12. > :27:14.remedy this? We do have teeth, we can name and shame, all the

:27:15. > :27:20.charities not to do certain things, we can go in and audit and

:27:21. > :27:24.investigate. We can ultimately report them to the charity

:27:25. > :27:29.commission, who have power over all charities in this country.

:27:30. > :27:34.Ultimately, there is the backstop that the government could take over

:27:35. > :27:39.the regulation of charities through a statutory regulator, which is not

:27:40. > :27:44.what anybody wants. It is always there. I am very confident we have

:27:45. > :27:48.the powers to stop people. We are there, properly resourced,

:27:49. > :27:52.independent, we are there to hear the public concerns and take action.

:27:53. > :27:55.I'm sure that is going to be very reassuring to all of the people that

:27:56. > :27:59.feel there are good nature has been taken advantage of. What you have

:28:00. > :28:06.shown in the programme, in a sense I knew about it, there are practices

:28:07. > :28:10.out there which do put at risk the public's generosity and it has got

:28:11. > :28:18.to stop. Thank you very much for joining us.

:28:19. > :28:20.Well we've been talking about problems with

:28:21. > :28:23.but outside at our pop up shop Gloria's with someone who's had

:28:24. > :28:28.That's right, among the many people out here with us this

:28:29. > :28:29.morning are Janice Chisholm from Trading Standards

:28:30. > :28:34.Now it is a bit windy here, so we hope that you can hear us.

:28:35. > :28:37.Now Matita, I understand you came over a bit Miss Marple when one

:28:38. > :28:39.of these plastic bags landed on your doorstep asking

:28:40. > :28:43.you to donate clothes and gadgets in aid of a charity for ex servicemen.

:28:44. > :28:45.I had one delivered, three, actually, on three separate

:28:46. > :28:50.occasions, delivered through my letterbox, in aid of a charity.

:28:51. > :28:54.Asking me to put unwanted clothes, etc, in it. I thought, good, an

:28:55. > :28:58.opportunity to get rid of some stuff. I looked at the bag

:28:59. > :29:08.carefully, it had several spelling mistakes on it. Like what? It said

:29:09. > :29:12."His Royal Higness" and I thought that was a bit of a giveaway!

:29:13. > :29:16.LAUGHTER It had a charity number, it did not

:29:17. > :29:21.add up, it was a fake number. There was a telephone number on the back

:29:22. > :29:30.which did not work... And so I assumed it was a scam, which it

:29:31. > :29:35.turned out to be. Do you hear about this a lot? In terms of crime, it is

:29:36. > :29:39.comparatively low risk for the criminals, so it is the sort of

:29:40. > :29:43.thing that they can actually do and not much chance of them being

:29:44. > :29:45.caught, so we urge the public to be vigilant. What do you do as an

:29:46. > :29:57.organisation? In Islington we have had undercover

:29:58. > :30:02.officers out on the streets, trying to catch people. With results? It is

:30:03. > :30:07.difficult, we cannot be that 24 hours a day, so we are urging the

:30:08. > :30:11.public to help us. And you, what have you done? I got in touch with

:30:12. > :30:14.the police and with the Trading Standards and with the fraud squad.

:30:15. > :30:21.Gosh, that's something to be reckoned with, good for you! Thank

:30:22. > :30:27.you both of you. Back here, I will find Simon Calder again. You should

:30:28. > :30:31.have a coat on or something! Anyway, we have an issue to do with Virgin

:30:32. > :30:35.Trains. Somebody e-mailed us to say that during a visit with his elderly

:30:36. > :30:38.parents, his brother back at home had two cardiac arrests and was

:30:39. > :30:43.taken into intensive care. Obviously, he was desperate to get

:30:44. > :30:46.back, but when he turned up at the station, one of those prepaid ticket

:30:47. > :30:51.things can they would not let him go earlier, which I think was really

:30:52. > :30:55.mean? Most certainly. Now, I think this is really applying the rules

:30:56. > :31:00.too strictly. Of course if you book a ticket of this type, it tells you

:31:01. > :31:04.it is only valid for that train. But of course, train managers are human,

:31:05. > :31:07.and in my experience, if there is a good reason for somebody to travel,

:31:08. > :31:10.like they are very distressed because there is a leanness in the

:31:11. > :31:14.family, of course there has got to be some flexibility. His brother

:31:15. > :31:19.could have died, and I mean, wouldn't you think that in a

:31:20. > :31:24.situation like that, a matter of life and death, that some of the

:31:25. > :31:27.rules could be bent? Most certainly, and there is normally a bit of

:31:28. > :31:34.flexibility. But of course ultimately, the rules are the rules.

:31:35. > :31:37.If everybody just says, no, read what it says, then unfortunately you

:31:38. > :31:40.just have to pay out more money at a time when you are very, very

:31:41. > :31:45.stressed. What do you think yourself? Well, they are being

:31:46. > :31:49.straight down the line, saying, these are the rules. In reality, the

:31:50. > :31:52.people who work on the railways are human and compassionate and normally

:31:53. > :31:56.they would help you out if you're in distress. We contacted Virgin

:31:57. > :31:59.Trains, and we hoped the company might have a change of heart, but

:32:00. > :32:04.they told us that while they sympathise with customers who

:32:05. > :32:08.experience unforeseen changes, it is very important to be consistent in

:32:09. > :32:11.the application of ticket regulations. And buying an advanced

:32:12. > :32:16.ticket at a cheaper price means accepting a lack of flexibility, and

:32:17. > :32:20.Virgin are within their rights to stick to their policy. But we all

:32:21. > :32:26.think that there should be a bit of compassion. I think probably Virgin

:32:27. > :32:31.are quite embarrassed by this. People were not trying it on, they

:32:32. > :32:37.were just in a desperate rush to get home. In one word, would you buy

:32:38. > :32:41.insurance to cover this? No! ?2, and the terms and conditions are

:32:42. > :32:45.terrible! There you go, some great advice!

:32:46. > :32:49.Earlier in the week, we revisited the shocking

:32:50. > :32:52.story of a house that collapsed when the builders started

:32:53. > :32:56.We mentioned a couple of viewers had been in touch offering help.

:32:57. > :32:58.But catching up again with the couple still battling

:32:59. > :33:01.to sort this out, it seems that however well-intentioned,

:33:02. > :33:05.It still appears the best hope of finally getting things resolved

:33:06. > :33:07.is through the various insurance companies involved.

:33:08. > :33:09.Well, we'll be keeping a very close eye on what happens next,

:33:10. > :33:13.as it does feel wrong that they've been left picking up

:33:14. > :33:16.the pieces when the insurance you'd expect would help,

:33:17. > :33:21.from big companies, too, has so far done no such thing.

:33:22. > :33:23.Yesterday we touched briefly on reports that robots

:33:24. > :33:34.While fans of automation claim it's more efficient,

:33:35. > :33:35.lots of you are missing that personal connection

:33:36. > :33:48.One for this, two for that. Everything is moving potentially a

:33:49. > :33:54.bit robotic, which can be quite unfriendly. I always refuse to go to

:33:55. > :34:00.a machine. For me, I find the personal touch better. By the time

:34:01. > :34:09.you get to the third number, I'm a bit like, I just want to speak to a

:34:10. > :34:14.person! If all of that sounds familiar, then this music probably

:34:15. > :34:19.will as well. Vivaldi could never have imagined that his Four Seasons

:34:20. > :34:24.would become so irritating, if it is played countless times when we're

:34:25. > :34:27.stuck. And even when you do get through on the phone, it is unlikely

:34:28. > :34:33.that in the first instance you will speak to a real, live person, a bone

:34:34. > :34:37.of contention which brought some folks to our pop-up shop. I got a

:34:38. > :34:41.pre-recorded voice. You're trying to say what the problem is, and this

:34:42. > :34:46.will voice says, I'm sorry, I did not get that. So they've obviously

:34:47. > :34:52.got a bank of about ten different things that they accept, and after

:34:53. > :34:58.about three attempts, Iceland the phone down and swore, I'm afraid!

:34:59. > :35:01.It's a far cry from when even getting your call connected might

:35:02. > :35:07.actually involve a genuine human voice. I am connecting your call to

:35:08. > :35:11.New York... Up today, all aspects of our lives seem to be moving away

:35:12. > :35:16.from personal interaction. Shopping for groceries has gone from this to

:35:17. > :35:20.this. Most everyday banking can be done via a machine rather than

:35:21. > :35:24.queueing at the counter. And the same is true of everything from

:35:25. > :35:30.borrowing library books to booking train tickets and ordering food.

:35:31. > :35:36.Your nearest walk-in centre is at this hospital... Under new plans, we

:35:37. > :35:42.could be self diagnosing all our smartphones via the NHS website.

:35:43. > :35:49.Technology champion Jeremy is all for such developer is. There is a

:35:50. > :35:53.great amount that can be done faster, and, more reliable, more

:35:54. > :35:58.convenient and allow you to get a lot more done. Furthermore, it's

:35:59. > :36:01.exciting, and it's just on your doorstep, waiting for you to grasp

:36:02. > :36:07.it. It would be a shame if you did not try it. Jeremy worked on recent

:36:08. > :36:12.research which found that by 2020, 30 5% of jobs are likely to involve

:36:13. > :36:19.some element of automation or be completed read-out by technology. --

:36:20. > :36:26.35%. One of the most exciting areas is trifle as taxis. This is a case

:36:27. > :36:30.of if not win. The technology exists today. Secondly, in hospitality, we

:36:31. > :36:35.will have restaurants which might have no waiting staff. You go in at

:36:36. > :36:40.whatever time you like and order what you want and it comes to you on

:36:41. > :36:44.an electronic trade or automated robot service. When you're done, you

:36:45. > :36:48.touch a card to pay. What we're talking about is offering the

:36:49. > :36:52.consumer more choice. And some of you can see the benefits. I think

:36:53. > :36:56.it's great for the days when you've got an agenda, you want to go into

:36:57. > :37:01.the supermarket and pick up a cereal and go straight to the till and pay

:37:02. > :37:07.without anyone asking you, as weird as it sounds, how is your day, love?

:37:08. > :37:11.I don't mind, if you need to get quicker to where you need to be,

:37:12. > :37:15.automated cars in the future, for me, it's a bonus. But for many of

:37:16. > :37:23.you, including this consumer psychologist, the personal touch is

:37:24. > :37:27.still very important. Technology systems which do use language are

:37:28. > :37:32.not very good at recognising all of our language. And certainly cannot

:37:33. > :37:38.recognise important, essential human things like sarcasm and humour or

:37:39. > :37:43.the emotion in our voice or the fact that we sound a bit low to date. And

:37:44. > :37:49.that's a major problem to combat. Consumers need to feel that they

:37:50. > :37:52.are, to earn they can trust the thing that's listening to them. I

:37:53. > :37:57.think some people can feel quite cheated when companies only provide

:37:58. > :38:01.a technological way of interacting, because it says to the consumer

:38:02. > :38:06.that, we don't really care enough to provide a person. And of course,

:38:07. > :38:10.some people cannot use that technology effectively. Which is why

:38:11. > :38:14.the professor believes that we may see some companies doing a U-turn

:38:15. > :38:24.and bringing back people to interact with. I think that overall, we can

:38:25. > :38:28.automation in more places. -- we are going to Seymour automation in more

:38:29. > :38:31.places. But there will be places, and it's happening in the banking

:38:32. > :38:35.industry, that will find value in having people to speak to, because

:38:36. > :38:40.that is what customers really want. I agree with that. If you're

:38:41. > :38:45.frustrated by your customer service experience, technology even provides

:38:46. > :38:47.a way to make that clear. Speak on social media, voice your opinion and

:38:48. > :38:52.give them the opportunity and the space to come back to you. If you do

:38:53. > :38:57.it in the right way, it's very likely to give you the results you

:38:58. > :39:00.need. And if you're still not happy, then I suggest vote with your feet

:39:01. > :39:08.and try and find a company that has humans to interact with. Well, I for

:39:09. > :39:13.one prefers speaking to a real person, it has to be said!

:39:14. > :39:18.Love it or hate it, everyone is talking about Marmite today,

:39:19. > :39:23.Also in the news, claims that we will all face

:39:24. > :39:25.higher bills this winter, with reports that energy suppliers

:39:26. > :39:27.are withdrawing some of their cheapest deals.

:39:28. > :39:29.It's been blamed on rising wholesale costs.

:39:30. > :39:33.And after we talked about the frustrations with

:39:34. > :39:35.voice-recognition technology, a story today of a man who struggled

:39:36. > :39:40.for 11 hours to get his voice-activated kettle

:39:41. > :39:48.It would have taken him seconds just to push the button, why didn't he do

:39:49. > :39:51.that?! On yesterday's show,

:39:52. > :39:52.Naga Munchetty revealed there's nothing she likes

:39:53. > :39:56.less than shopping. Well, today, Matt Allwright goes

:39:57. > :40:07.one better, and admits Nobody chases down those rogues

:40:08. > :40:11.Wighton-like all right. It was an if handful chat during which he stuck

:40:12. > :40:16.his Burrow up my nose. Weather on rogue traders or watchdog come soon

:40:17. > :40:20.to start, by the way, he has been hot on their trail for nearly two

:40:21. > :40:25.decades. Some stories that we deal with on Rogue Traders are all about

:40:26. > :40:29.the money, and that's it. But some of them aren't. But away from the

:40:30. > :40:36.cameras, what type of consumer is Mac? Here I am in your empire. This

:40:37. > :40:43.is where it all happens! I never pay full price. I can't do it. And if

:40:44. > :40:46.something is full price, I just mistrust it. I actually don't really

:40:47. > :40:50.like new things. I will never buy new things if I can avoid it,

:40:51. > :40:54.because I think, if you buy them new, you waiting for them to go

:40:55. > :40:59.wrong, whereas if summary else has had them for a while... This makes

:41:00. > :41:02.me sound terrible cheapskate, but genuinely I'm not comfortable with

:41:03. > :41:05.buying something full price. What do you think is the best way to

:41:06. > :41:08.complain? Without a doubt, the best way to complain is to appeal to

:41:09. > :41:12.somebody's human nature and humanity. If you can tap into that

:41:13. > :41:16.and just say, can you imagine how I'm feeling worried that is a really

:41:17. > :41:21.useful phrase - can you imagine what it is like to be in my position?

:41:22. > :41:24.That is when I find you get the best response from people. Someone used

:41:25. > :41:27.to say to people, there was nothing wrong with my money when I handed it

:41:28. > :41:32.over, but there is something wrong with your product. That's great! I'm

:41:33. > :41:37.going to take that and use it as if it was mine! Thank you! Where do you

:41:38. > :41:43.think you waste money? My bigwig this is guitars. But you see I don't

:41:44. > :41:46.consider it a waste because I think guitars are multifunctional. You can

:41:47. > :41:51.hang them on the wall and they look beautiful, and you can play them,

:41:52. > :41:55.and in the end, you can sell them. What about clothes? Well, you can

:41:56. > :42:00.see for yourself. I was about to say, you haven't spent a fortune!

:42:01. > :42:06.This is how I go to work most days, if I am not in leather. No, I don't

:42:07. > :42:10.spend a lot of money on clothes. I have to say, it's been a revelation.

:42:11. > :42:14.You have this very hard face on the screen. I love it when you bang on

:42:15. > :42:19.those doors. And you're actually a big softy. Listen, if you can

:42:20. > :42:23.recommend me a good plumber, I would love to know! I have met all of the

:42:24. > :42:31.worst ones! But I need one for my house! Thank you very much. Imagine

:42:32. > :42:35.Mac answering the door if you're going to do a job for him!

:42:36. > :42:44.As usual, you've been sending in your questions all morning.

:42:45. > :42:47.Someone is fed up with people knocking at her door after dark.

:42:48. > :42:50.And here to help answer some of those are Simon Calder

:42:51. > :42:58.Laura says, her bag was lost for three days after flying home and

:42:59. > :43:04.when she got it back, it was badly damaged. The airline will not pay

:43:05. > :43:10.for a replacement, so what should she be doing? She is theoretically

:43:11. > :43:14.entitled up to ?1000, but it all depends on the definition of badly

:43:15. > :43:19.damaged. Because the airline say, normal wear and tear, and that can

:43:20. > :43:22.include things like tearing handles off, the wheels coming off the case,

:43:23. > :43:26.part of the normal business of baggage handling, they might say.

:43:27. > :43:32.She could try her travel insurers to see, but of course, the first rule

:43:33. > :43:38.is, don't check in anything you don't want to lose. And this one,

:43:39. > :43:42.from Geoff, he says, I have just had a smart metre fitted, and if I want

:43:43. > :43:46.to change my energy supplier, will it still work? It depends. Smart

:43:47. > :43:51.metres do lots of great things, and you might find that if you switch

:43:52. > :43:55.supplier, you might lose some of the functionality. But check, they have

:43:56. > :43:56.got some good information on their websites. Good luck with that,

:43:57. > :44:02.Geoff, if you're listening! Sorry we don't have time to read out

:44:03. > :44:07.ALL your questions - but we will use them to help us

:44:08. > :44:10.decide what to cover In the meantime, it's our last

:44:11. > :44:14.live show tomorrow - so there's even more

:44:15. > :44:20.incentive to keep sending We'll be investigating mounting

:44:21. > :44:23.concerns over the safety of the tumble dryers that have

:44:24. > :44:27.sparked devastating fires. And we'll find out how instruction

:44:28. > :44:31.manuals suddenly got