0:00:02 > 0:00:06'We ask you to tell us who's left you feeling ripped off.'
0:00:06 > 0:00:09This is very, very wrong for what they have done.
0:00:09 > 0:00:13The bank piles charges upon charges upon charges.
0:00:13 > 0:00:18Legally, it was right. Morally, that's where the doubt comes in my view.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21'And you contacted us in your thousands by post,
0:00:21 > 0:00:28'email, even stopping us in the streets, and the message couldn't be clearer.'
0:00:28 > 0:00:32- They just try and fob you off. - I'm not happy with them at all.
0:00:32 > 0:00:38- It's always that small print with the clause that you didn't realise. - We're being ripped off big time.
0:00:38 > 0:00:43'Whether it's a deliberate rip-off, a simple mistake or a catch in the small print,
0:00:43 > 0:00:48'we'll find out why you're out of pocket and what you can do about it.'
0:00:48 > 0:00:51Keep asking the questions. Go to the top.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53We do get results.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56'Your stories, your money.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58'This is Rip-Off Britain.'
0:01:01 > 0:01:06Hello and welcome to Rip-Off Britain, the show that investigates your consumer troubles
0:01:06 > 0:01:11and then battles really hard on your behalf to get them resolved.
0:01:11 > 0:01:15Your letters and emails have given us plenty to get our teeth into,
0:01:15 > 0:01:20so as well as holding to account the companies big and small who have already let you down,
0:01:20 > 0:01:24we'll have invaluable advice to stop you being ripped off in future.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27Today, we have the banks in our sights.
0:01:27 > 0:01:32In the first six months of 2011, 150,000 of you took your complaints about the banks
0:01:32 > 0:01:38to the Financial Ombudsman and in nearly half those cases, the ruling was in the customer's favour.
0:01:38 > 0:01:44So that's a lot of big name banks getting things wrong. We'll hear about some of your experiences.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Also coming up on today's show,
0:01:47 > 0:01:52the payments you just can't stop coming out of your account, however hard you try.
0:01:52 > 0:01:57I said, "It's my money. You're sat there. I'm telling you to stop paying it."
0:01:57 > 0:02:01And see what happened when we went on the road,
0:02:01 > 0:02:05solving problems in person at our pop-up shop.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08So let's get stuck in.
0:02:09 > 0:02:16The financial penalties for an unauthorised overdraft with some of the high street banks can be so high
0:02:16 > 0:02:22that miscalculating your outgoings by even just a few pounds can lead to huge charges.
0:02:22 > 0:02:28When Josie Lewis from Wootton Bassett in Wiltshire took on her bank, HSBC,
0:02:28 > 0:02:33what happened next was a classic David and Goliath struggle.
0:02:34 > 0:02:39Well, I started having many problems shortly before 2007
0:02:39 > 0:02:44because I'd been in and out of work and I had a fluctuating income.
0:02:44 > 0:02:48At this point, Josie said she went overdrawn on her current account
0:02:48 > 0:02:51and because it was unauthorised borrowing,
0:02:51 > 0:02:57she began to incur charges of up to £25 for each transaction
0:02:57 > 0:02:59and a vicious circle began.
0:02:59 > 0:03:06There's great pressure on because you're trying to earn enough money to keep going and pay essential bills,
0:03:06 > 0:03:11and it's very difficult because I'm not on a big wage, the bills come in.
0:03:11 > 0:03:18If you miss a payment, you've got all the letters coming in as well. You end up going round in circles.
0:03:18 > 0:03:24Josie's original overdraft of a couple of hundred pounds grew bigger and bigger
0:03:24 > 0:03:28as HSBC added on more and more charges.
0:03:28 > 0:03:33Half the time, you wouldn't know what bank charges you were paying.
0:03:33 > 0:03:38The bank is supposed to issue a list of fees and bank charges. I never received that.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42In the end, the bank charges themselves were keeping me overdrawn
0:03:42 > 0:03:47and the bank was charging fees and interest on top of their own bank charges.
0:03:47 > 0:03:52It got to the point where you could never keep up with the bank charges.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55By 2008,
0:03:55 > 0:03:58Josie was overdrawn by around £2,000
0:03:58 > 0:04:02and the vast majority of it wasn't even money that she had spent.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05It was bank charges.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09Josie felt so angry about that that she took it up with HSBC,
0:04:09 > 0:04:13but even so, while she was discussing it with them,
0:04:13 > 0:04:18the bank was calling her up almost every day, chasing the debt.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21In a matter of a few months, I had 150 phone calls,
0:04:21 > 0:04:25as many as 26 within two or three days.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27They were asking me for money.
0:04:27 > 0:04:32They were totally focused on the overdraft and trying to extract money from me.
0:04:32 > 0:04:36There were several phone calls. They were threatening, intimidating.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39They said, "Miss Lewis, you owe us money.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43"These phone calls won't stop unless you pay us the money."
0:04:43 > 0:04:47Unable to resolve the dispute with the bank by phone or letter,
0:04:47 > 0:04:52Josie decided to go into the branch where her account was held.
0:04:52 > 0:04:57I went to the bank first thing in the morning, thinking I could meet with the bank manager,
0:04:57 > 0:05:03talk things through on a one-to-one basis and that would help me enormously,
0:05:03 > 0:05:05but that's not how things went.
0:05:05 > 0:05:11Instead, Josie ended up having a confrontation with the bank manager
0:05:11 > 0:05:17and that was the point when she decided she wanted to try and end her relationship with HSBC.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21I wrote to the bank. I said, "I want my account frozen.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24"No transactions allowed to go out of that account
0:05:24 > 0:05:28"and you will take no direct debits and no standing orders."
0:05:28 > 0:05:33Josie knew that she was within her rights to freeze her HSBC account.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36She had read up on banking rules,
0:05:36 > 0:05:42so thought she'd found the answer to stopping the charges escalating further, but it didn't work.
0:05:42 > 0:05:47Though she had been paying off her debt from another account,
0:05:47 > 0:05:53HSBC continued taking money from the frozen account and adding on yet more charges.
0:05:53 > 0:06:01When I discovered they had continued taking money from my account up until March '09, I was absolutely livid.
0:06:01 > 0:06:07She complained and HSBC refunded the money that they had taken since the account was frozen.
0:06:07 > 0:06:13But by then, Josie was so incensed, she took her fight a stage further.
0:06:13 > 0:06:18In 2010, I took the bank to court on the grounds of harassment for a disputed debt
0:06:18 > 0:06:22and the lack of duty of care in handling my account.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25And she won.
0:06:25 > 0:06:30In June of this year, the judge ordered HSBC to pay Josie £2,070 compensation,
0:06:30 > 0:06:34£570 for poor management of her account,
0:06:34 > 0:06:40plus £1,500 for the harassing phone calls and the confrontation at her branch.
0:06:40 > 0:06:45The judge also ruled, though, that she did still owe the bank more than £5,500
0:06:45 > 0:06:48for legitimate charges and interest.
0:06:50 > 0:06:54In 2006, Stephen Hone also took legal action
0:06:54 > 0:06:57over charges that a different bank had made to his account.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00The bank settled out of court,
0:07:00 > 0:07:05but Stephen still campaigns over what he calls "profit-making penalty charges".
0:07:05 > 0:07:10He believes consumers are not given enough information about the bank's charging structures.
0:07:10 > 0:07:15It's a minefield and finding them on their websites is a task in itself.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17They're not straightforward or clear.
0:07:17 > 0:07:21It should be a fixed fee at the cost for banks to administer that charge
0:07:21 > 0:07:26or give you that letter which is probably about £3.50. That's a fair charge.
0:07:26 > 0:07:31Rip-Off Britain contacted HSBC about Josie's case.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35They told us they'd apologised for the stress that they had caused her
0:07:35 > 0:07:40and regret the way that they dealt with her complex financial situation.
0:07:40 > 0:07:46They blame an administration error for the fact that Josie continued to get calls about her debt
0:07:46 > 0:07:48when they had agreed that she wouldn't
0:07:48 > 0:07:54and they've offered to cancel her outstanding debt, plus meet her legal costs,
0:07:54 > 0:07:58all very good news for Josie, but she still has very strong views
0:07:58 > 0:08:02about the way that charges can escalate so quickly.
0:08:02 > 0:08:06The bank piles charges upon charges upon charges
0:08:06 > 0:08:11and then you end up with this spiralling debt that you can never get out of.
0:08:11 > 0:08:16The British Bankers' Association has recently announced a whole raft of improvements,
0:08:16 > 0:08:21designed to help current account holders avoid getting into a situation like Josie's.
0:08:21 > 0:08:27These include alerts when account balances get close to the overdraft limit
0:08:27 > 0:08:32and wriggle room with charges, so they won't apply if you're only a little bit in the red.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38Big companies don't always make things easy to understand
0:08:38 > 0:08:44and it can be confusing trying to work out why you haven't ended up with what you'd expected,
0:08:44 > 0:08:49so if you feel bogged down, we've put together a booklet of tips and advice.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53You can find a link to the free guide on our website.
0:08:57 > 0:09:01Or to receive a copy in the post, send an A5 self-addressed envelope
0:09:01 > 0:09:05to the address that we'll be giving at the end of the programme.
0:09:07 > 0:09:12Now, more on an extraordinary problem that we first featured in our last series,
0:09:12 > 0:09:16but one that is still leaving many of you thoroughly frustrated.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18It is to do with recurring payments
0:09:18 > 0:09:23which are regular payments taken from your bank account, like a direct debit,
0:09:23 > 0:09:26but with one crucial difference.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30If you try and stop them, you may find that you can't.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33# Young at heart... #
0:09:33 > 0:09:36Ann Bainbridge has always cared about her appearance.
0:09:36 > 0:09:41She knows the products she likes and what works best for her.
0:09:41 > 0:09:45But she doesn't shy away from trying something new.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47I don't like going out looking untidy.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51I like my make-up on and I like to be dressed nice.
0:09:51 > 0:09:54I don't spend an awful lot.
0:09:54 > 0:10:00If I see something and think, "That's a nice colour," and it's not too expensive, I'll buy it.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04Ann and husband Eric, who live near Hartlepool,
0:10:04 > 0:10:06are regular internet users
0:10:06 > 0:10:11and it was while she was online that Ann was tempted by an advert
0:10:11 > 0:10:18that unexpectedly popped up on her screen, inviting her to test some collagen anti-ageing cream.
0:10:18 > 0:10:22It was advertising a sample or, as they call it, a trial.
0:10:22 > 0:10:28I always assume, when you get a trial or tester or whatever in the stores,
0:10:28 > 0:10:33you get a little piece or a sachet or whatever.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37I thought, "Well, for £3, it's worth giving it a go."
0:10:37 > 0:10:43Ann paid online with her debit card and when the product arrived several weeks later,
0:10:43 > 0:10:46she was surprised at how big it was.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50I thought, "That's a nice sample," and thought no more about it
0:10:50 > 0:10:53until three weeks or so later,
0:10:53 > 0:10:55this other one came.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59I thought they must have made a mistake.
0:10:59 > 0:11:04For Eric, alarm bells had already begun to ring.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08But as Ann had purchased the cream through a pop-up advert,
0:11:08 > 0:11:13there was no paperwork or confirmation email for them to check what she'd signed up to.
0:11:13 > 0:11:18It looks bad. And I said to her, "There'll be more to come."
0:11:18 > 0:11:21Sure enough, it kept coming and coming.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23# Keep young and beautiful... #
0:11:23 > 0:11:28It wasn't until Eric began checking their bank statements
0:11:28 > 0:11:32that the couple realised the tubes weren't samples.
0:11:32 > 0:11:36They had been charged for each one
0:11:36 > 0:11:38at £96 a pop.
0:11:38 > 0:11:43They had known nothing about it, but up to that point,
0:11:43 > 0:11:48almost £500 had already been taken out of their account to pay for the face cream.
0:11:48 > 0:11:53Horrified, they contacted their bank to try to stop the payments
0:11:53 > 0:11:56and that was when they got an even bigger shock.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59The bank couldn't help.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02They said they couldn't stop the payments.
0:12:02 > 0:12:08It was an ongoing contract or whatever they call it, which we'd never heard of.
0:12:08 > 0:12:15I said, "It's my money. You're sat there. I'm telling you to stop paying it." "We can't do that."
0:12:15 > 0:12:20The Bainbridges were told that because Ann had unknowingly signed up
0:12:20 > 0:12:24to what's called "a continuous payment authority",
0:12:24 > 0:12:30only the supplier of the products that was based in America had the power to stop the money being taken.
0:12:30 > 0:12:35The couple tried emailing the company, but got no response.
0:12:35 > 0:12:41And having reached a brick wall with their bank, they went online to do some research
0:12:41 > 0:12:45where they quickly found dozens of similar complaints.
0:12:45 > 0:12:50I mean, did you see that one here? "I too have fallen foul of this scam."
0:12:50 > 0:12:54Ann wishes there was some sort of record of what she had signed up to,
0:12:54 > 0:13:00but suspects that that pop-up ad may have been deliberately unclear.
0:13:00 > 0:13:04I don't know if there was small print there. Maybe there was.
0:13:04 > 0:13:10I might have been stupid for not reading it or I've read it and not taken it in.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13I could kick myself. I really could.
0:13:13 > 0:13:15I feel silly.
0:13:15 > 0:13:21With the beauty company still slapping on the payments every month and cream arriving in the post,
0:13:21 > 0:13:26in desperation, the Bainbridges contacted Trading Standards.
0:13:26 > 0:13:31It wasn't the first time they'd come across this extraordinary problem.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34Continuous payment authorities became popular
0:13:34 > 0:13:36for internet services, insurance.
0:13:36 > 0:13:42A lot of people give their card details and it will be a rolling contract each year.
0:13:42 > 0:13:47When you're dealing with a legitimate company who accept your cancellation, there's no problem.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51When the company is based outside the UK, it is more difficult to cancel,
0:13:51 > 0:13:56or if it's a rogue trader, once they've got your card details, you're open to fraud.
0:13:56 > 0:14:01Eventually, Trading Standards investigations got a result.
0:14:01 > 0:14:07They were able to get a response from the company who agreed to stop sending more orders.
0:14:07 > 0:14:14They also promised to reimburse the Bainbridges for three out of the eight payments that were taken,
0:14:14 > 0:14:18but that still leaves them £600 out of pocket.
0:14:18 > 0:14:24Surely, the financial people know that this goes on. I mustn't be the only one that's complained about it.
0:14:24 > 0:14:29Ann still desperately hopes that she will get the rest of her money back.
0:14:29 > 0:14:33We contacted the company to ask when that might happen,
0:14:33 > 0:14:35but as yet, we've had no reply.
0:14:35 > 0:14:42In the meantime, she wants others to be aware of the dangers of signing up to receiving samples online
0:14:42 > 0:14:46and paying for goods using a continuous payment authority.
0:14:46 > 0:14:50I only hope anybody watching this programme,
0:14:50 > 0:14:56because I have sat here and felt foolish for getting involved in the first place,
0:14:56 > 0:14:59that they don't have the hassle that we've had.
0:14:59 > 0:15:06All we've thought about is how can we stop it, how can we stop it, how can we stop it.
0:15:07 > 0:15:11So how can you avoid getting trapped into a continuous payment?
0:15:11 > 0:15:15Sarah Pennells from Savvy Woman has some top tips for you.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19Be careful if you've bought something from a website you're familiar with
0:15:19 > 0:15:23and you're offered discounts from a range of online retailers.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27It could be that you're being signed up for a membership club
0:15:27 > 0:15:33where if you don't cancel within 30 days, money will be taken from your credit card every month.
0:15:33 > 0:15:39The law says that if you're being asked to part with your money, the company must make that very clear,
0:15:39 > 0:15:43but it may still be within the small print in their terms and conditions,
0:15:43 > 0:15:49so check really carefully if you think you're getting a discount for free. You may not be.
0:15:50 > 0:15:56If payments have been taken and you're not happy about it, complain to the discount company.
0:15:56 > 0:16:00If you've not used the discounts, you should get a full refund.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03If you've paid by credit or Visa debit card,
0:16:03 > 0:16:07you may be able to approach your bank to ask them to reverse the transaction.
0:16:07 > 0:16:13Make sure you do complain. The chances are that if you're unhappy, somebody else is as well.
0:16:15 > 0:16:21Britain may be facing a debt crisis with millions of us feeling the pinch every single day,
0:16:21 > 0:16:24but figures from 2009 suggest that between us all,
0:16:24 > 0:16:30we've got an estimated £1,153 billion tucked away in savings.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34Sounds incredible. Sadly, with today's rock bottom interest rates,
0:16:34 > 0:16:39the rewards for being thrifty with your money are no longer what they once were.
0:16:39 > 0:16:45Here's a couple who didn't know how much things had changed until they worked out how much they'd lost.
0:16:45 > 0:16:51For decades, the local high street bank seemed a reliable place to watch your money grow
0:16:51 > 0:16:55under the careful eye of your friendly bank manager.
0:16:55 > 0:16:59Those were the days, but today, all that feels long gone.
0:16:59 > 0:17:06The human face has been replaced by internet banking or a distant voice down the telephone.
0:17:06 > 0:17:12Even so, the Independent Commission on Banking, a major review into the industry published in September,
0:17:12 > 0:17:18found that the average customer switches their main account just once every 26 years.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21So why are we all so loyal?
0:17:21 > 0:17:24Meet semi-retired orthopaedic surgeon Roop Tandon.
0:17:24 > 0:17:30His savings allow him to give his time and expertise for free
0:17:30 > 0:17:36- at the Hunterian Surgical Museum in London.- Have you come from far? - Dublin.- That's quite far.
0:17:36 > 0:17:41Roop and his wife Mary have been faithful customers of the Halifax since 1972.
0:17:41 > 0:17:46Then 20 years ago, Mary took out a variable rate ISA Saver with their branch.
0:17:46 > 0:17:52With regular deposits and healthy interest rates, the years passed and their savings grew.
0:17:52 > 0:17:58Then earlier this year, they decided to have a peek at how their nest egg was doing.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01They were pleased to see that in 2008,
0:18:01 > 0:18:06Mary had received over £1,000 in interest on her savings of 28,000,
0:18:06 > 0:18:12but they were shocked when they saw that the figures for the following year were very, very different.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16For 34,000 in 2010,
0:18:16 > 0:18:20she receives £76 interest
0:18:20 > 0:18:25and I'm sure the girl who updated this must have realised,
0:18:25 > 0:18:27but the girl never said.
0:18:27 > 0:18:32And the following year, Mary received just £68
0:18:32 > 0:18:34which means that over three years,
0:18:34 > 0:18:40her interest rate has suddenly plummeted from about 4.5% to just 0.2%,
0:18:40 > 0:18:43a huge drop that neither of them had spotted.
0:18:43 > 0:18:48I mean, I must have been nuts not to notice that.
0:18:50 > 0:18:52You know...
0:18:53 > 0:18:58It's like lots of things. Once you know about it, it's glaringly obvious.
0:18:58 > 0:19:05I think they should have mentioned it, "You're getting this low interest, there are other products.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09"Why do you not invest? You've got a large sum of money.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13"34,000 is quite a large sum of money and you will get more interest."
0:19:13 > 0:19:17The new rates would have been included in their annual statements.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20Even so, as loyal customers for 40 years,
0:19:20 > 0:19:26the Tandons feel somebody at the bank should have brought a drastic change to their attention,
0:19:26 > 0:19:30but as financial journalist Victoria Bischoff is about to remind them,
0:19:30 > 0:19:33the climate for savers is changing fast.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37When they were advertising this account, it was probably a good rate.
0:19:37 > 0:19:39They want to get new customers in,
0:19:39 > 0:19:45then rely on these customers staying with them for year after year, then they'll reduce their rates.
0:19:45 > 0:19:50They rely on people not checking it enough. They can get away with it.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53As Mary was on a variable rate ISA,
0:19:53 > 0:19:59the Halifax technically haven't done anything wrong by changing the interest payments
0:19:59 > 0:20:03and they're not the only bank that's dramatically dropped its rates.
0:20:03 > 0:20:10But Roop thinks that in the good old days, their bank manager just wouldn't have let this happen.
0:20:10 > 0:20:16How I was brought up, the bank manager had a complete relationship and I had a complete faith in him.
0:20:16 > 0:20:22All my salary went into the bank and he would advise me and say,
0:20:22 > 0:20:26"You've got more money. Put it in this. This is a better rate."
0:20:26 > 0:20:32Roop certainly had a bone to pick with Halifax and decided to really take them on.
0:20:32 > 0:20:36His tenacity led them to putting Mary on a new fixed rate
0:20:36 > 0:20:42and giving her an additional £819 interest for one of the years that she had lost out on.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46The fact that he got any money back is pretty impressive.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50The lesson is to be persistent, to call up and to fight for it.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52You never know what could happen.
0:20:52 > 0:20:59People accept what their bank manager or bank staff tell them without questioning it or fighting back.
0:20:59 > 0:21:05We asked the Halifax about the couple's experience. They said they understand the Tandons' concerns,
0:21:05 > 0:21:09but they encourage all customers to keep track of interest rates
0:21:09 > 0:21:14which they can see on their statements, in their branch and now also online.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18Customers with savings accounts are entitled to an annual savings review
0:21:18 > 0:21:21to discuss the different options available.
0:21:21 > 0:21:28But despite the bank's efforts to make amends, Roop and Mary feel that their loyalty was all one-sided
0:21:28 > 0:21:33and are now considering taking future investments somewhere else.
0:21:33 > 0:21:40What I have learnt is that one has to be very vigilant with accounts. You need to check them regularly.
0:21:40 > 0:21:46And shop around and get the best deal. Forget about being loyal.
0:21:46 > 0:21:52And I have proudly banked with Halifax and no one else. When this happens, it's very upsetting.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56Very sad.
0:21:59 > 0:22:05In September this year, the Independent Commission for Banking released its long-awaited review
0:22:05 > 0:22:11which called for greater competition between the banks so that customers can get a better service,
0:22:11 > 0:22:15but it still pays to be pro-active and keep a careful eye on your cash.
0:22:15 > 0:22:23It's in your interest to make sure that every penny in the bank is working as hard for you as it can.
0:22:24 > 0:22:32Still to come: we set up a pop-up shop for consumer advice and we were rushed off our feet.
0:22:32 > 0:22:38People are afraid to make a fuss, but if the situation's difficult and you can't get out of it,
0:22:38 > 0:22:40say, "Am I being treated fairly?"
0:22:43 > 0:22:51Planning for your future is increasingly important in the current financial situation,
0:22:51 > 0:22:55but where to put your money? It's a very important decision.
0:22:55 > 0:23:03For many, the bank or building society seems the safest option, but not for Margaret and Brian.
0:23:03 > 0:23:09When they tried to cash in the savings they put in their building society 25 years ago,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11it appeared to have vanished.
0:23:14 > 0:23:21Margaret and Brian Mitchell are preparing for a fantastic milestone, their golden wedding anniversary.
0:23:21 > 0:23:26To mark their big day, they have some pretty big plans.
0:23:26 > 0:23:33We are planning to go to Spain. We went their for our silver anniversary, so we're going back.
0:23:33 > 0:23:38And we would like to go to the places we went to for our 25th.
0:23:38 > 0:23:45Back in 1984, the Mitchells opened three bank accounts - two with the Halifax for their grandchildren,
0:23:45 > 0:23:51and a high-interest one with Abbey National. The plan with that one was to deposit some money,
0:23:51 > 0:23:57then not touch it again until their 50th wedding anniversary.
0:23:57 > 0:24:02We went in with the money and talked to the people behind the counter
0:24:02 > 0:24:06who said it was a very good idea to leave that money in to grow
0:24:06 > 0:24:13and we wouldn't have to save up five years before. It would just sit there and get bigger and bigger.
0:24:15 > 0:24:20So they paid £620 into the account and left it, ready for the future.
0:24:20 > 0:24:24The years rolled by and everything seemed to be in order.
0:24:24 > 0:24:31Periodically, they would drop in to check if the account was OK and be assured that everything was fine.
0:24:31 > 0:24:36Some years later, in 2004, the Abbey was taken over by Santander
0:24:36 > 0:24:42and then, a few months ago, the moment came when it was time to withdraw their money.
0:24:42 > 0:24:49I went down and I said to the guy behind the counter, "Can I withdraw my money from an account we've had
0:24:49 > 0:24:53"for quite a long time?" He said, "No problem."
0:24:53 > 0:24:59He went to have a look at the account and came back and said, "I'll have to see my manager,
0:24:59 > 0:25:03"but I should think it's all right. It's your money."
0:25:03 > 0:25:10But there was a problem, though they had no idea yet just how big it was.
0:25:10 > 0:25:14Because the account was opened when the bank was still the Abbey,
0:25:14 > 0:25:19they were told the branch needed all their paperwork to track it down.
0:25:19 > 0:25:25So we went back, gave them all the paperwork that he wanted and he sent it away to his head office.
0:25:25 > 0:25:30We got a letter back which more or less tells me the money's not ours.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33We don't own it any more.
0:25:33 > 0:25:38Santander's letter said they couldn't trace the account or the money.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42They suggested that perhaps it had been closed in the past
0:25:42 > 0:25:48and said because they weren't required to keep details of accounts going back more than six years,
0:25:48 > 0:25:51they were unable to assist further.
0:25:51 > 0:25:58The letter we got back, I do believe they were thinking that we were trying to steal our own money.
0:25:58 > 0:26:05And to be able to keep records for six years is a bit much when other people keep them longer.
0:26:07 > 0:26:13Because there had been no activity on their account since they opened it 27 years ago,
0:26:13 > 0:26:17it would have been classed as a dormant account.
0:26:17 > 0:26:23There's an estimated £400 million in dormant accounts in the UK.
0:26:24 > 0:26:32The government is now planning to use this lost or forgotten money to fund the Big Society.
0:26:32 > 0:26:38We have already said we will create a Big Society bank to help finance social enterprises, charities
0:26:38 > 0:26:45and voluntary groups. And I can announce today that it will be established using every penny
0:26:45 > 0:26:51of dormant bank and building society account money allocated to England.
0:26:51 > 0:26:56It leaves a bitter taste. It's not a nice letter.
0:26:56 > 0:27:03Margaret and Brian don't want their money going into the Big Society! They want it given back to them.
0:27:03 > 0:27:07And their annoyance is directed solely at Santander.
0:27:07 > 0:27:12The Halifax accounts they opened in 1984 are absolutely fine.
0:27:12 > 0:27:18There may yet be some good news because Santander say they have now been successful
0:27:18 > 0:27:24in locating Margaret on their systems and are working on finding Brian's records.
0:27:24 > 0:27:29They are still investigating and promise to keep us updated.
0:27:29 > 0:27:34But the Mitchells are flabbergasted that this situation could arise.
0:27:34 > 0:27:39BRIAN: It makes me angry in the way that Santander are a big company.
0:27:39 > 0:27:43We are talking about a drop in the ocean here.
0:27:43 > 0:27:48As far as I'm concerned, it's very, very wrong what they have done.
0:27:51 > 0:27:57If you had no idea that an untouched account could become classified as dormant,
0:27:57 > 0:28:04you're in very good company. Believe it or not, there are an estimated 500,000 dormant accounts in the UK
0:28:04 > 0:28:09meaning hundreds of thousands of pounds lying unclaimed or forgotten.
0:28:09 > 0:28:16Financial expert Kevin Mountford has some top tips of what to do if you think one of them is yours.
0:28:16 > 0:28:22If you believe you've possibly got a lost or dormant account, there are positive steps you can take.
0:28:22 > 0:28:28The easiest is to go into the official website:
0:28:28 > 0:28:34This is sponsored by the British Banking Association and is a free of charge service.
0:28:37 > 0:28:43Remember, when you initially opened the account, it could have been in a different name.
0:28:43 > 0:28:47The chances are it was a different address.
0:28:47 > 0:28:53The official website - mylostaccount.org.uk - is set up for those people who believe
0:28:53 > 0:29:00they've got a building society or bank account. For National Savings and Investment, access their website
0:29:00 > 0:29:08and they have a tool that allows you to put information in to match you up with any unclaimed prizes.
0:29:10 > 0:29:14The one thing you mustn't do is pay for any of these services.
0:29:14 > 0:29:20There is a commitment on behalf of the banking sector to marry as many of these lost funds up
0:29:20 > 0:29:25with the right customer and so the services are free of charge.
0:29:27 > 0:29:34We're here at our pop-up shop in Manchester and it's another busy day for advice and complaints.
0:29:34 > 0:29:38You may think this is a Tardis, but this is our gripe box.
0:29:38 > 0:29:45I wish I'd had this all my life. There's nothing I like better than getting it all off my chest.
0:29:45 > 0:29:47So I'm about to gripe a lot!
0:29:47 > 0:29:53I'm one of those people who tend to go to an energy company or a bank or whatever the situation is
0:29:53 > 0:30:01and I stay with them. I'm loyal. But these days it drives me nuts. There's no compensation for loyalty.
0:30:01 > 0:30:07Banks, for example, will give you no extra interest because you've been with them for years and years.
0:30:07 > 0:30:11They'll only give extra to new customers.
0:30:11 > 0:30:17Another person feeling upset by banks after years of loyalty is Bill.
0:30:17 > 0:30:22Bill, welcome to our pop-up shop. You have a problem. Tell us what it is.
0:30:22 > 0:30:29I have an issue with the bank who have charged me excessive overdraft charges.
0:30:29 > 0:30:36- And you just can't get on top of that?- The interest seems to catch up all the time, it overlaps.
0:30:36 > 0:30:44Martyn, he's a loyal customer of the bank, he's not ever been in arrears with them before.
0:30:44 > 0:30:46What do you think his position is?
0:30:46 > 0:30:50Sometimes people just complain about the size of the charge. You can't.
0:30:50 > 0:30:55But if you've told the bank about the problem,
0:30:55 > 0:31:02and they've failed to help you, that's a complaint and the ombudsman sees many complaints like this.
0:31:02 > 0:31:08While Martyn looks into this further, Gloria is grappling with figures of her own
0:31:08 > 0:31:16- in the BBC Learning area. - A big part of our pop-up shop has been BBC Learning. This is Cat.
0:31:16 > 0:31:20What is the premise of the course that you've been doing?
0:31:20 > 0:31:28Our site is Maths and English for adults. It's about using them to help you to stop getting ripped off.
0:31:28 > 0:31:35So is it a question of giving people more confidence in managing their affairs, managing their accounts,
0:31:35 > 0:31:40- their spending?- Absolutely. Empowering the person to ask the right question.
0:31:40 > 0:31:46We're about saying it's not scary. This is what you need to know to help you get by.
0:31:46 > 0:31:52Martyn's been finding out more about Bill's excessive overdraft charges and it looks as if he has a case
0:31:52 > 0:31:55for more help from the bank.
0:31:55 > 0:31:59Where you've done everything the right way, let the bank know,
0:31:59 > 0:32:03we'd expect the bank to step back and take a pragmatic look at this
0:32:03 > 0:32:11and say this is not going to get any better, let's see what we can do in terms of stopping the charges.
0:32:11 > 0:32:18Look back on what's happened before and see if there's a way to re-set the clock. You start again,
0:32:18 > 0:32:25and you're not running to catch up. Often people are afraid to make a fuss or think it's their fault,
0:32:25 > 0:32:33but if it is getting difficult and you can't get out of it, say, "Am I being treated fairly?"
0:32:33 > 0:32:37If you don't think that's so, speak to your bank or building society
0:32:37 > 0:32:43and there are organisations designed to help. The key thing is to find someone who will do it for free
0:32:43 > 0:32:50- and won't charge you to complain. - Good advice.- Thank you. - Bill, thanks for coming in.
0:32:53 > 0:32:59Last year, Rip-off Britain spent lots of time investigating bank charges.
0:32:59 > 0:33:04We challenged the banks and building societies over excessive penalties
0:33:04 > 0:33:11for letters, missed payments and direct debits and in many cases these were substantially reduced.
0:33:11 > 0:33:17But it seems some institutions are pretty clever at finding ingenious new ways to keep hold of your cash.
0:33:17 > 0:33:23How about a building society that charges for NOT using your account?
0:33:23 > 0:33:28Steve Gough is a musician and he banks his cash with Norwich and Peterborough.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32In fact, he has a few accounts with them
0:33:32 > 0:33:39and he's always been happy with the service he got until one day in January they suggested
0:33:39 > 0:33:42he change to a different account.
0:33:42 > 0:33:47They said it would be in my interest to go onto the new light account.
0:33:47 > 0:33:53Because I was a light usage user, this account would be better than the one I had.
0:33:53 > 0:33:57So I trusted their judgment and went along with that.
0:33:57 > 0:34:03Steve's new so-called light account is the one he uses to manage the income and outgoings
0:34:03 > 0:34:06on a buy-to-let property he owns.
0:34:06 > 0:34:11I didn't notice any real difference, so I was quite happy to stay with them
0:34:11 > 0:34:14and the new account that I had.
0:34:14 > 0:34:20But not long after changing accounts, Steve spotted a little addition to his monthly statement.
0:34:20 > 0:34:26I noticed I'd got a low usage charge and I didn't really understand why that was.
0:34:26 > 0:34:30So I then contacted the bank as to why I was being charged £5.
0:34:30 > 0:34:36It turns out Norwich and Peterborough charge what they call "a low usage fee"
0:34:36 > 0:34:41of £5 for any month when there are any fewer than five transactions.
0:34:41 > 0:34:45In other words, a charge for not using your account.
0:34:45 > 0:34:52I don't make that many transactions because there are direct debits that go out for the mortgage
0:34:52 > 0:34:57and the incoming rent. So it's a fairly low usage account.
0:34:57 > 0:35:04Occasionally, it will go five, six, seven transactions, but there are times when it might only be three.
0:35:04 > 0:35:09Frustrated at having to pay what he considered a bank charge to far,
0:35:09 > 0:35:14Steve has come up with a creative way to get round it.
0:35:14 > 0:35:20I asked if I could do a standing order to put £1 from one account to another. They said that was fine.
0:35:20 > 0:35:25So I'm quite happy to do that. It seems crazy, but it avoids charges.
0:35:25 > 0:35:31Steve's money merry-go-round involves moving that £1 back and forth between two accounts,
0:35:31 > 0:35:34just enough times for him to avoid the fee.
0:35:34 > 0:35:40Norwich and Peterborough say there are costs in providing a full current account,
0:35:40 > 0:35:46which is designed to be a transaction account, with money going in and out regularly.
0:35:46 > 0:35:51They say if Steve is not willing or able to meet the minimum usage criteria,
0:35:51 > 0:35:58this account may not suit his needs and they'd be happy to help him find one that does.
0:35:58 > 0:36:04Which slightly overlooks the fact that they suggested he open this account in the first place!
0:36:04 > 0:36:08They said that this account would suit me.
0:36:08 > 0:36:14Steve's not sure it's better for him, though he can see it's better for them,
0:36:14 > 0:36:21but it seems wherever you bank, unexpected rules and fees could be on the rise.
0:36:21 > 0:36:25These organisations are businesses and they have to make profit.
0:36:25 > 0:36:29They realise they have profitable and non-profitable customers
0:36:29 > 0:36:34and there's increased terms and conditions on many accounts now
0:36:34 > 0:36:40and unless we're really aware of it, we'll fall foul and it'll end up costing us money.
0:36:40 > 0:36:44At least Steve's ingenious system means he's avoiding that,
0:36:44 > 0:36:49so for the moment he's keeping his account at Norwich and Peterborough.
0:36:49 > 0:36:55I don't have a problem with the staff, but I think the way things are set up and my account is,
0:36:55 > 0:37:01there's not an alternative account that I can take out with them, so I'll continue doing it this way.
0:37:03 > 0:37:09For Rip-off Britain viewers, the very word banking raises not only anger
0:37:09 > 0:37:15but feelings of being totally let down by their banks with excessive overdraft charges,
0:37:15 > 0:37:21not being able to get money from dormant accounts or being charged for not using the bank enough!
0:37:21 > 0:37:26So we've got a few questions to put to Brian Capon from the British Bankers' Association.
0:37:26 > 0:37:31Brian, the banks are in the firing line. We have many, many questions
0:37:31 > 0:37:36but the majority seem to be about unauthorised overdraft charges.
0:37:36 > 0:37:38How do the banks justify that?
0:37:38 > 0:37:45Well, if you're going into the red, going over your limit without arranging that in advance,
0:37:45 > 0:37:52that triggers a whole series of things that the bank has to do. Do we pay this item?
0:37:52 > 0:37:58They have to do a credit assessment because the bank doesn't know why you've gone overdrawn.
0:37:58 > 0:38:04But if you have been charged for a relatively small amount and you do feel that's unfair,
0:38:04 > 0:38:09do talk to your bank to see if they'll consider refunding it.
0:38:09 > 0:38:15A lot of our mailbag says it's well nigh impossible to get any kind of personal service.
0:38:15 > 0:38:20We all bang on about the good old days, when you could go in, see your bank manager and get results.
0:38:20 > 0:38:27- Nowadays you're answered in India or Fiji.- Certainly the intention of having call centres
0:38:27 > 0:38:34is really to provide a contact point that you can use any time, in many cases 24 hours a day.
0:38:34 > 0:38:42In most cases, you don't need to talk to the manager in person. It can be arranged at arm's length.
0:38:42 > 0:38:49In reality, it's just impossible to provide that one-to-one personal service to every single customer
0:38:49 > 0:38:54- unless, of course, you go towards private banking.- You say that,
0:38:54 > 0:39:00but one bank brought their services back from a foreign country because of the complaints.
0:39:00 > 0:39:04It's this faceless aspect of banking that's perturbing.
0:39:04 > 0:39:10The decision where you'll have your call centre, in this country or elsewhere,
0:39:10 > 0:39:16is one of those commercial decisions that any organisation, a bank or whoever, will make.
0:39:16 > 0:39:21Banks do listen to their customers, in spite of what you might think.
0:39:21 > 0:39:27They do take account of that feedback and in that sort of case the decision's been made
0:39:27 > 0:39:33if that is the overwhelming wish of our customer base, then we will take that route.
0:39:33 > 0:39:38Let's look at interest rates. This seems to be a minefield.
0:39:38 > 0:39:45- How do you expect people to keep pace with it?- Banks will advise people when the rates change.
0:39:45 > 0:39:50That can either be through newspaper advertisements or it can be direct to the customer.
0:39:50 > 0:39:58If that drop is more than 0.5% over a rolling one-year period, then they must advise the customer.
0:39:58 > 0:40:02But there's no recompense for loyalty. After 30, 40 years,
0:40:02 > 0:40:06there's nothing. The whole emphasis is on new customers.
0:40:06 > 0:40:10It's very competitive out there. Banks focus on different things,
0:40:10 > 0:40:17different communications with their customers. But there are decent rates out there.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19Generally, rates are very, very low.
0:40:19 > 0:40:24But as the governing body overlooking all the banks,
0:40:24 > 0:40:30what do you want to see them doing in the future to try to regain this confidence?
0:40:30 > 0:40:34We want to improve customer relationships and confidence.
0:40:34 > 0:40:40Banks are certainly looking at being open, being open and transparent with the customers.
0:40:40 > 0:40:47They don't want any nasty surprises and that goes for both sides. Everybody is fixed on the same goal.
0:40:47 > 0:40:54They want to regain that confidence, but it's going to take some time and we have to be realistic.
0:40:54 > 0:40:58- Brian, thank you very much indeed for joining us.- Thank you.
0:41:00 > 0:41:06Here at Rip-off Britain, we're always ready to investigate more of your stories.
0:41:06 > 0:41:12Confused over your bills? Trying to wade through endless small print?
0:41:12 > 0:41:17I might have been stupid for not reading it or I've not took it in.
0:41:17 > 0:41:20I could kick myself.
0:41:20 > 0:41:27Unsure what to do when you discover you've lost out and a so-called great deal has cost you money?
0:41:27 > 0:41:33I thought, "This cannot be true. It's totally unacceptable." I was so angry.
0:41:33 > 0:41:39You might have a cautionary tale of your own and want to share the mistakes you made with us,
0:41:39 > 0:41:46- so others don't do the same. - No one knows about this and I'd really like to get it much clearer.
0:41:46 > 0:41:49You can write to us at:
0:41:58 > 0:42:00Or send us an email to:
0:42:05 > 0:42:10The Rip-off team is ready and waiting to investigate your stories.
0:42:12 > 0:42:18As we've seen today, it's absolutely vital that you keep on top of your bank accounts
0:42:18 > 0:42:24and on where your money is going. If you do find yourself heading towards your overdraft limit,
0:42:24 > 0:42:29- don't ignore the problem.- This is the worst thing you could do.
0:42:29 > 0:42:31Ignoring it won't make it go away.
0:42:31 > 0:42:39It's far better to alert your bank to try to agree a temporary solution until you can replenish your funds.
0:42:39 > 0:42:44And if your bank account isn't working for you, look around
0:42:44 > 0:42:48and see what other accounts are on offer. That's it for today.
0:42:48 > 0:42:55- Join us again when we'll tackle more of your consumer nightmares. See you soon.- Bye-bye!- Bye now!
0:43:06 > 0:43:10Subtitles by Subtext for Red Bee Media Ltd - 2011
0:43:11 > 0:43:13Email subtitling@bbc.co.uk