Episode 11

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0:00:02 > 0:00:04We asked you to tell us what's left you feeling ripped off,

0:00:04 > 0:00:07and you contacted us in your thousands.

0:00:07 > 0:00:10You've told us about the companies you think get it wrong,

0:00:10 > 0:00:12and the customer service that's simply not up to scratch.

0:00:13 > 0:00:16I've complained and complained and nobody takes any notice of me.

0:00:16 > 0:00:19In all honesty, I think it's just a way for the shops

0:00:19 > 0:00:20to make more money.

0:00:20 > 0:00:23You've asked us to track down the scammers who stole your money

0:00:23 > 0:00:26and investigate the extra charges you say are unfair.

0:00:26 > 0:00:28You don't want to spend any more but yet they're always trying to

0:00:28 > 0:00:30offer you little things extra.

0:00:30 > 0:00:33And when you've lost out but nobody else is to blame,

0:00:33 > 0:00:36you've come to us to stop others from falling into the same trap.

0:00:36 > 0:00:39Rang up the company and they went, "Oh, it isn't our fault."

0:00:39 > 0:00:40So whose fault is it?

0:00:40 > 0:00:44So, whether it's a blatant rip-off or a genuine mistake,

0:00:44 > 0:00:46we're here to find out why you're out of pocket,

0:00:46 > 0:00:49and what you can do about it.

0:00:49 > 0:00:53Your stories, your money - this is Rip Off Britain.

0:00:55 > 0:00:57Hello and welcome once again to Rip Off Britain,

0:00:57 > 0:00:59where today we're doing our best

0:00:59 > 0:01:02to beat the scammers trying to trick you out of your cash,

0:01:02 > 0:01:04by arming you with all you need to know

0:01:04 > 0:01:07as to how to spot them coming. Now, the team in our office

0:01:07 > 0:01:08has been working really hard to try

0:01:08 > 0:01:11and keep abreast of the fraudsters' latest tactics, which,

0:01:11 > 0:01:14I have to tell you, are growing more audacious and shocking than ever.

0:01:14 > 0:01:16Yes, you know, every series,

0:01:16 > 0:01:19the scams we look at seem to get more sophisticated,

0:01:19 > 0:01:20so to try to understand

0:01:20 > 0:01:23exactly what's gone on and at what point alarm bells

0:01:23 > 0:01:25should've rung isn't always easy,

0:01:25 > 0:01:28and that's especially true of the stories we'll be looking at today.

0:01:28 > 0:01:31And I tell you what, you'll think twice about your own security

0:01:31 > 0:01:33after hearing how, in one case,

0:01:33 > 0:01:35scammers were able to get into

0:01:35 > 0:01:38not one but five of the same person's bank accounts,

0:01:38 > 0:01:40which of course is a reminder

0:01:40 > 0:01:42that it's not just down to all of us to keep our money safe,

0:01:42 > 0:01:45but the banks have a responsibility, too.

0:01:45 > 0:01:47So, we're going to be looking into what they're doing

0:01:47 > 0:01:49to make sure that our money stays safe.

0:01:51 > 0:01:53Coming up - how crooks used a new scam

0:01:53 > 0:01:57linked to her phone to find their way into this woman's bank accounts,

0:01:57 > 0:01:59and she had no idea they'd done it.

0:02:00 > 0:02:03Someone going into your bank accounts...

0:02:03 > 0:02:06I can't think of anything more personal.

0:02:06 > 0:02:11And I can't get past that feeling that somebody has...

0:02:11 > 0:02:15Has seen how I conduct my life.

0:02:15 > 0:02:16And, "Hand over your cash

0:02:16 > 0:02:19"or you'll never see your precious files again" -

0:02:19 > 0:02:23what to do if scammers hold your computer to ransom.

0:02:23 > 0:02:26I decided that I wasn't going to give in to these cyberterrorists,

0:02:26 > 0:02:30these people bullying. They're not going to get my money.

0:02:34 > 0:02:36Every year on Rip Off Britain,

0:02:36 > 0:02:39we tell you about the latest tricks and tactics that are being used

0:02:39 > 0:02:43by scammers who are dead set on getting their hands on your money.

0:02:43 > 0:02:47And every year we tell you what to look out for to avoid being stung.

0:02:47 > 0:02:50Well, of course, as the nation gets wise to their tricks,

0:02:50 > 0:02:54the scammers also - unfortunately - seem to be one step ahead,

0:02:54 > 0:02:57developing new and ever more audacious ways

0:02:57 > 0:02:59of conning us out of our cash.

0:03:02 > 0:03:05No sooner is one scam exposed than another pops up to take its place.

0:03:07 > 0:03:09And we've been keeping you up to date

0:03:09 > 0:03:12with the fraudsters' latest tactics for years.

0:03:15 > 0:03:18Several times we've warned you about how they've been able to

0:03:18 > 0:03:21keep your phone line open when you thought they'd hung up.

0:03:21 > 0:03:24I feel that people have got to know about this business of being able

0:03:24 > 0:03:28to hold the phone line open, which is where I feel I slipped up.

0:03:28 > 0:03:32Next we revealed that criminals had started hijacking

0:03:32 > 0:03:35genuine phone numbers to make an unexpected call

0:03:35 > 0:03:36look reassuringly familiar.

0:03:36 > 0:03:40The number that showed up on my phone

0:03:40 > 0:03:44was the same number as the back of the Santander card,

0:03:44 > 0:03:47and that convinced me he must be from the bank.

0:03:47 > 0:03:51And in our last series, we showed you how you could even be

0:03:51 > 0:03:54tricked into thinking you were working for the police

0:03:54 > 0:03:56in an elaborate con that once again

0:03:56 > 0:03:58is all about getting your bank details.

0:03:58 > 0:04:00To use that term so many times -

0:04:00 > 0:04:03"Don't forget you're working undercover."

0:04:03 > 0:04:06But, as the scams keep evolving,

0:04:06 > 0:04:09it's estimated that as much as £755 million

0:04:09 > 0:04:12is stolen from British bank accounts every year.

0:04:14 > 0:04:16And now there's a new twist,

0:04:16 > 0:04:18because retired civil servant Mary Edgely

0:04:18 > 0:04:21was targeted by a scam you will not see coming,

0:04:21 > 0:04:25and she's not someone you'd expect to be caught out.

0:04:25 > 0:04:29She's always tried to keep her bank account secure, and she's convinced

0:04:29 > 0:04:32that her vigilance has proved essential to protecting her money.

0:04:33 > 0:04:39I would say I'm deeply suspicious of calls and rogue e-mails.

0:04:39 > 0:04:43I'm very, very careful about personal security,

0:04:43 > 0:04:45and part of that is because I've been on the internet

0:04:45 > 0:04:47for about 20-odd years now.

0:04:47 > 0:04:50I've been on internet banking and I've found it

0:04:50 > 0:04:52a great blessing, but not now.

0:04:55 > 0:04:59The first inkling that Mary had that scammers had her in their sights

0:04:59 > 0:05:00was when, out of the blue,

0:05:00 > 0:05:04she was called by her credit card provider Tesco Bank.

0:05:04 > 0:05:06Following the advice that we've often repeated,

0:05:06 > 0:05:09she refused to believe the call was genuine

0:05:09 > 0:05:11until she had called back to check.

0:05:13 > 0:05:15In terms of calls,

0:05:15 > 0:05:19I will not answer anybody who rings me and wants

0:05:19 > 0:05:20to take ME through security.

0:05:20 > 0:05:23They phoned me - how do I know who they are?

0:05:24 > 0:05:27But when Mary called back, the bank had some bad news.

0:05:27 > 0:05:29Someone had tried but failed

0:05:29 > 0:05:33to transfer £5,000 from her credit card.

0:05:33 > 0:05:38Fortunately, the security was tight and they had, for whatever reason,

0:05:38 > 0:05:40been suspicious.

0:05:40 > 0:05:42I suppose, if I'm being honest,

0:05:42 > 0:05:44the fact that this hadn't gone through

0:05:44 > 0:05:46was actually quite reassuring.

0:05:46 > 0:05:49But the fraudsters hadn't stopped there.

0:05:49 > 0:05:53When Mary logged on to check another of her accounts at Santander,

0:05:53 > 0:05:58she saw to her horror that they'd found their way into there, too,

0:05:58 > 0:05:59and this time more successfully.

0:05:59 > 0:06:04Twice someone had managed to transfer sums of around £5,000.

0:06:04 > 0:06:06This was the shock.

0:06:06 > 0:06:09They'd been into my Santander accounts

0:06:09 > 0:06:11and tried both of my credit cards.

0:06:12 > 0:06:14Over the next 24 hours,

0:06:14 > 0:06:18all Mary's bank accounts were bombarded with requests for

0:06:18 > 0:06:21balance transfers that she did not make.

0:06:21 > 0:06:24In total, the fraudsters tried to remove over £22,000

0:06:24 > 0:06:29from her various accounts. But, thanks in part to her swift action,

0:06:29 > 0:06:30containing what was happening,

0:06:30 > 0:06:34they didn't get their hands on any more than that initial ten.

0:06:34 > 0:06:36I phoned everyone I had a credit card with,

0:06:36 > 0:06:40everyone I had a bank account with, and told them to freeze accounts.

0:06:40 > 0:06:43I stopped everything dead at that point.

0:06:46 > 0:06:49To make matters worse, when trying to call her banks,

0:06:49 > 0:06:52Mary had realised that her mobile phone wasn't working,

0:06:52 > 0:06:55and I'm afraid that was no coincidence.

0:06:55 > 0:06:58Because when she contacted Vodafone to find out what the problem was,

0:06:58 > 0:07:02it gradually became clear that the fraudsters had managed to access

0:07:02 > 0:07:04her mobile phone account as well,

0:07:04 > 0:07:08and in fact that had proved the key to the entire scam.

0:07:10 > 0:07:14During the course of that chat, the person responding made reference to,

0:07:14 > 0:07:16had I not got the SIM?

0:07:17 > 0:07:20"I don't know what you're talking about, what SIM?"

0:07:20 > 0:07:24Vodafone told Mary that her phone wasn't working because,

0:07:24 > 0:07:26as she had apparently requested,

0:07:26 > 0:07:30they deactivated her SIM card and sent out a new one.

0:07:31 > 0:07:34But Mary never had requested a new SIM.

0:07:34 > 0:07:38She immediately realised it must have been the scammers,

0:07:38 > 0:07:42and to do it they would have had to bypass the security

0:07:42 > 0:07:45on her Vodafone account, something Mary now realised

0:07:45 > 0:07:47was actually not that hard.

0:07:47 > 0:07:49Several people would know my mother's maiden name.

0:07:49 > 0:07:52I'm sure several people would know my date of birth.

0:07:54 > 0:07:56With the answers to simple questions like that,

0:07:56 > 0:07:58it would've been relatively easy

0:07:58 > 0:08:03to reset Mary's account and transfer her number to a new SIM card.

0:08:03 > 0:08:06They could activate a blank SIM in my name.

0:08:08 > 0:08:12What that did - and here's the real puzzle -

0:08:12 > 0:08:18is that gives them the ability to go into bank accounts.

0:08:22 > 0:08:25The reason taking over Mary's phone number was so essential

0:08:25 > 0:08:28to the scammers' plan is that, these days, most bank accounts

0:08:28 > 0:08:31come with an additional layer of security,

0:08:31 > 0:08:35requiring the account holder to use a unique passcode for each

0:08:35 > 0:08:38online transaction, and that passcode

0:08:38 > 0:08:40is usually sent out via text message.

0:08:40 > 0:08:45So, getting hold of her phone number and those vital text messages

0:08:45 > 0:08:47was enough to help the fraudsters gain access

0:08:47 > 0:08:50to what they really wanted - Mary's money.

0:08:50 > 0:08:52Someone going into your bank accounts...

0:08:52 > 0:08:54I can't think of anything more personal.

0:08:56 > 0:09:00And I can't get past that feeling that somebody has...

0:09:02 > 0:09:05Has seen how I conduct my life.

0:09:05 > 0:09:09They've seen who I do business with, they've seen who I pay bills to,

0:09:09 > 0:09:12and, of course, in doing so they're seeing

0:09:12 > 0:09:14whatever other accounts that they could access.

0:09:18 > 0:09:22Mary was lucky. Because there was clear evidence of fraud,

0:09:22 > 0:09:25her bank gave her the stolen money back,

0:09:25 > 0:09:28but fundamental to the success of this scam was that the criminals

0:09:28 > 0:09:31had been able to get hold of just enough of her details

0:09:31 > 0:09:35to find their way through various identification checks,

0:09:35 > 0:09:37and as Mary's prided herself on

0:09:37 > 0:09:39always being so careful with her personal information,

0:09:39 > 0:09:43she's keen to know exactly how they did that.

0:09:43 > 0:09:47I've racked my brains to think of what I could've done.

0:09:47 > 0:09:50My security is as tight as anybody I know.

0:09:50 > 0:09:53In fact, most of my friends would say

0:09:53 > 0:09:56I am the person least likely to have this happen to,

0:09:56 > 0:10:02because I've always been almost obsessive about security.

0:10:02 > 0:10:05Well, there is a variety of ways that criminals can get hold of

0:10:05 > 0:10:07your personal data, but one route

0:10:07 > 0:10:10that we've reported on before is through the dark web -

0:10:10 > 0:10:12the murky underworld of the internet,

0:10:12 > 0:10:17where criminals and scammers openly trade individuals' details

0:10:17 > 0:10:19and sell them on to the highest bidder.

0:10:19 > 0:10:23One gang may find your e-mail and password and then they'll sell it

0:10:23 > 0:10:26to another organisation who'll then use it

0:10:26 > 0:10:28to start doing things like phishing e-mails,

0:10:28 > 0:10:30where they try to get data off you,

0:10:30 > 0:10:34or they'll use researchers to find things like your date of birth,

0:10:34 > 0:10:36where you live, that kind of information,

0:10:36 > 0:10:39and they build that up over a period of time,

0:10:39 > 0:10:41and that process can take up to two years.

0:10:44 > 0:10:48We'll never know for sure how Mary's information was stolen,

0:10:48 > 0:10:51but it's likely that at least some of her data

0:10:51 > 0:10:53WAS traded on the dark web.

0:10:53 > 0:10:57So, to understand more about how even the most security-conscious

0:10:57 > 0:11:01among us can fall foul to the criminal market in personal data,

0:11:01 > 0:11:05we've brought Mary to meet digital forensic expert Keith Cottenden -

0:11:05 > 0:11:08and a point that she's keen to establish from the off

0:11:08 > 0:11:10is that, whatever else may have happened,

0:11:10 > 0:11:15at no stage would she have fallen foul of any suspect spam e-mails.

0:11:16 > 0:11:21Part of my frustration throughout this whole period is people saying,

0:11:21 > 0:11:23"Did you click on an e-mail?"

0:11:23 > 0:11:26I am pretty certain I didn't.

0:11:26 > 0:11:29I don't think any of us can say definitely we didn't,

0:11:29 > 0:11:31but I'm pretty certain I didn't do those things.

0:11:31 > 0:11:34And that's what's puzzling me about this,

0:11:34 > 0:11:35it's kind of, "Why me?"

0:11:35 > 0:11:37Well, firstly,

0:11:37 > 0:11:40people are picked not because of who they are,

0:11:40 > 0:11:45just because a number, data.

0:11:45 > 0:11:49And your data is as valuable as anybody else's data.

0:11:49 > 0:11:52It could be down to an inadvertent action that you don't even realise

0:11:52 > 0:11:57you've committed. There are international gangs out there

0:11:57 > 0:12:01who mine data from systems over a period of time,

0:12:01 > 0:12:02sometimes many years,

0:12:02 > 0:12:08and sell this data on to smaller organisations or smaller fraudsters.

0:12:09 > 0:12:12And as soon as those fraudsters decide to act, as Mary discovered,

0:12:12 > 0:12:15they work fast and a lot can happen.

0:12:16 > 0:12:20This particular fraud is possibly a one-off opportunity

0:12:20 > 0:12:24and they might only have a window of 12 hours

0:12:24 > 0:12:26to do serious damage.

0:12:26 > 0:12:28But Keith is keen to reassure Mary

0:12:28 > 0:12:31that it's not just her responsibility

0:12:31 > 0:12:32to keep her data safe.

0:12:32 > 0:12:35And I think the questions you need to be asking then

0:12:35 > 0:12:38are perhaps of your financial institutions

0:12:38 > 0:12:41and your service provider to ensure this doesn't happen.

0:12:41 > 0:12:44"How are you protecting my data?

0:12:44 > 0:12:47"How has this been allowed to happen?"

0:12:47 > 0:12:50So it might not have been me, it could've been a breach elsewhere?

0:12:50 > 0:12:54It could've been a breach... Any system can be compromised.

0:12:54 > 0:12:56You might have been signed up at some point

0:12:56 > 0:12:59to an organisation that has had a data breach

0:12:59 > 0:13:02that you didn't even realise has happened.

0:13:02 > 0:13:05And a data breach doesn't need to be at your bank or phone company.

0:13:05 > 0:13:08Anywhere you've logged in personal details -

0:13:08 > 0:13:11even something as simple as an online shopping account -

0:13:11 > 0:13:12could be the start of a trail

0:13:12 > 0:13:14that ends with fraudsters getting hold

0:13:14 > 0:13:16of your personal information.

0:13:18 > 0:13:21The meeting with Keith was deeply shocking, inasmuch as...

0:13:24 > 0:13:27..people are trading my information.

0:13:27 > 0:13:33Somebody perhaps sold my date of birth, my mother's maiden name,

0:13:33 > 0:13:36and they're just gathering those bits,

0:13:36 > 0:13:38but people are selling information.

0:13:38 > 0:13:42Mary will probably never know for sure where her scam began,

0:13:42 > 0:13:45only where it ended, and when we spoke to Vodafone,

0:13:45 > 0:13:48where the fraudsters had somehow known enough about her to pass

0:13:48 > 0:13:50the company's identification checks,

0:13:50 > 0:13:52it confirmed that Mary had been a victim

0:13:52 > 0:13:55of what it called...

0:13:57 > 0:14:00Vodafone told us it has three levels of verification

0:14:00 > 0:14:01on customer accounts,

0:14:01 > 0:14:05but it realises how distressing this has been for Mary,

0:14:05 > 0:14:09so it's now introduced special security measures on her account.

0:14:09 > 0:14:12It's also refunded the cost of the fraudulent calls

0:14:12 > 0:14:15and credited her account as a goodwill gesture.

0:14:15 > 0:14:18And whenever we speak to the banks about cases such as this one,

0:14:18 > 0:14:21they're always keen to stress how hard they work

0:14:21 > 0:14:24to stop this sort of fraud before it happens.

0:14:24 > 0:14:25Of course, in Mary's case,

0:14:25 > 0:14:29most of the fraudulent transactions did ring alarm bells

0:14:29 > 0:14:31and were prevented, but later in the programme

0:14:31 > 0:14:35we'll take a closer look at what banks do to keep our money safe,

0:14:35 > 0:14:39as one of them gives us exclusive access to its fraud protection team.

0:14:39 > 0:14:41And we'll have crucial advice to make sure

0:14:41 > 0:14:44that your details don't end up in the wrong hands.

0:14:48 > 0:14:50Coming up next, a terrifying new scam

0:14:50 > 0:14:54that doesn't actually involve criminals getting access

0:14:54 > 0:14:57to your bank account or trying to take control of your cash,

0:14:57 > 0:14:59but instead targets your computer,

0:14:59 > 0:15:02swooping in to prevent access to your most precious files

0:15:02 > 0:15:04and then holding them to ransom,

0:15:04 > 0:15:06demanding cash so that you can get them back.

0:15:06 > 0:15:08Now, it might all sound like something out of the Wild West,

0:15:08 > 0:15:13but computer ransomware is very much a 21st century crime.

0:15:13 > 0:15:17And the online outlaws behind it don't seem to care

0:15:17 > 0:15:18who they go after next.

0:15:20 > 0:15:24Gillian Pucci from Manchester is in a race against time.

0:15:24 > 0:15:25I just knew something was wrong.

0:15:26 > 0:15:30In four days, she'll be permanently locked out of the files

0:15:30 > 0:15:32on her own computer, thanks to cyber-criminals

0:15:32 > 0:15:36who found a way to control access to what she stored there,

0:15:36 > 0:15:38and are demanding a ransom to set it free.

0:15:38 > 0:15:40I know they're there.

0:15:41 > 0:15:43And that's what's heartbreaking.

0:15:44 > 0:15:48It's a scam that could target you, as well - but even if she pays up,

0:15:48 > 0:15:52Gillian can't be sure she will ever see her precious files again.

0:15:52 > 0:15:54With any kidnapping, there's no guarantee

0:15:54 > 0:15:58that, if you do pay the ransom, that you'd ever get them back.

0:16:00 > 0:16:02Gillian uses her computer for everything,

0:16:02 > 0:16:04from storing photographs to running the accounts

0:16:04 > 0:16:06for the family's Italian restaurant.

0:16:06 > 0:16:09She prides herself in being security-conscious -

0:16:09 > 0:16:11and until recently, Gillian was very confident

0:16:11 > 0:16:14she could spot a dodgy e-mail when she saw one.

0:16:14 > 0:16:15But in June this year,

0:16:15 > 0:16:19Gillian was caught out by one e-mail that didn't look quite right.

0:16:19 > 0:16:24It was an e-mail addressed to me personally, and the heading said,

0:16:24 > 0:16:28"We would appreciate prompt payment of the attached invoice."

0:16:28 > 0:16:31Something inside me said, "Don't open it."

0:16:31 > 0:16:34But then I was thinking, "Well, have I ordered something,

0:16:34 > 0:16:36"or has somebody cloned my card,

0:16:36 > 0:16:40"has something happened and I'm being asked to pay for something

0:16:40 > 0:16:41"that I haven't ordered?"

0:16:41 > 0:16:43So I did, I opened it.

0:16:44 > 0:16:46The attachment that Gillian clicked on was blank,

0:16:46 > 0:16:49so she closed it again and thought nothing of it.

0:16:49 > 0:16:52But that one click would have disastrous consequences.

0:16:53 > 0:16:58When I opened the computer the next morning, there was just writing,

0:16:58 > 0:17:02information telling me that my computer had been infected

0:17:02 > 0:17:05with this Cerber ransomware

0:17:05 > 0:17:10and that I would be unable to open any files or any documents.

0:17:10 > 0:17:14Gillian's computer and all the data on it was being held hostage.

0:17:14 > 0:17:18That innocuous-looking e-mail she clicked on had contained

0:17:18 > 0:17:21a software virus known as ransomware, which had encrypted

0:17:21 > 0:17:25every single file, document and photograph on her computer,

0:17:25 > 0:17:28converting them to a code that she simply couldn't unlock.

0:17:28 > 0:17:33My heart sank. There's years and years of photographs of my children,

0:17:33 > 0:17:36of my family, of my dogs.

0:17:36 > 0:17:38Go! Yay!

0:17:38 > 0:17:41'It's devastating, it feels like'

0:17:41 > 0:17:43you've been attacked.

0:17:44 > 0:17:46I know they're only photographs,

0:17:46 > 0:17:49but photographs contain memories and they mean such a lot.

0:17:50 > 0:17:53The cybercriminals demanded that Gillian pay up

0:17:53 > 0:17:56a ransom of about £600 within two weeks -

0:17:56 > 0:17:58or she would lose everything.

0:17:58 > 0:18:02She would need to pay using an internet currency called bitcoins,

0:18:02 > 0:18:05and every week she delayed, the price would go up.

0:18:05 > 0:18:08This, it's just a nightmare.

0:18:08 > 0:18:11You lose something that you really love,

0:18:11 > 0:18:14something that's really dear to you.

0:18:14 > 0:18:17I say lose, it's not lost, it's there,

0:18:17 > 0:18:21I just can't have it, can't open it.

0:18:21 > 0:18:24And it's devastating.

0:18:24 > 0:18:28But even with so much at stake, Gillian is refusing to pay.

0:18:29 > 0:18:32But I decided that I wasn't going to give in to these cyberterrorists,

0:18:32 > 0:18:37these people bullying. They're not going to get my money.

0:18:37 > 0:18:39Instead, she's determined to somehow find a way

0:18:39 > 0:18:43to unlock the files before the ransom deadline.

0:18:43 > 0:18:46I sat at my PC, day after day,

0:18:46 > 0:18:49from the morning through to the night-time,

0:18:49 > 0:18:53reading up, looking, uninstalling, installing,

0:18:53 > 0:18:56for the past ten days.

0:18:56 > 0:18:58It's just taken over my life.

0:18:58 > 0:19:00But with the clock still ticking,

0:19:00 > 0:19:03Gillian is no closer to finding a solution,

0:19:03 > 0:19:05so she's come to us for help.

0:19:05 > 0:19:07We've arranged for her to take her computer

0:19:07 > 0:19:10to tech detective John Salt.

0:19:10 > 0:19:12He's been in the business for over 20 years,

0:19:12 > 0:19:14and although this type of scam

0:19:14 > 0:19:16is something he's become very familiar with,

0:19:16 > 0:19:18he knows that even if Gillian

0:19:18 > 0:19:20does pay the ransom, it doesn't mean

0:19:20 > 0:19:21that she'll get her files back,

0:19:21 > 0:19:24and it could open the door to even more scams.

0:19:24 > 0:19:28Well, the first thing, you've done the right thing not to pay,

0:19:28 > 0:19:31because chances are, they won't repair your computer.

0:19:31 > 0:19:36And the second thing is they tend to send a list out of people

0:19:36 > 0:19:40who do pay to other scammers, who will then send you scams.

0:19:40 > 0:19:43- Right.- So, you've done the right thing by bringing it in.

0:19:43 > 0:19:45I think the first thing we need to do

0:19:45 > 0:19:49is find out what type of ransomware it is that's on,

0:19:49 > 0:19:51because there's quite a variety.

0:19:51 > 0:19:53- That's great. Thank you. - Yeah?- Yes.

0:19:53 > 0:19:55But I think, because time's of essence,

0:19:55 > 0:19:57we'll put it straight on to the bench.

0:19:57 > 0:20:00John's going to try and find a way to break the encryption

0:20:00 > 0:20:02that's locked Gillian's files away.

0:20:02 > 0:20:05Well, the first thing we need to do is we need to scan the system

0:20:05 > 0:20:09to see where the encryption came from, how deeply it's encrypted.

0:20:10 > 0:20:12And he soon discovers the

0:20:12 > 0:20:15cyber-criminals have modified almost every file

0:20:15 > 0:20:18- on the computer. - They're little blank pages.

0:20:18 > 0:20:19- Yes.- Now that's because your

0:20:19 > 0:20:21computer doesn't know how to open them.

0:20:21 > 0:20:23- Right.- It doesn't know what programme they're going to use.

0:20:23 > 0:20:26- Yeah.- Whereas, if you look further up the list,

0:20:26 > 0:20:28it knows it's a photograph...

0:20:28 > 0:20:32- Yeah.- ..but, when you go into it,

0:20:32 > 0:20:34- it then... - Windows can't open this file.

0:20:34 > 0:20:38It can't open this file because it doesn't quite know how to open it.

0:20:38 > 0:20:41Gillian is relieved that her computer is now in expert hands.

0:20:41 > 0:20:44The question is, can John save her files

0:20:44 > 0:20:47before the ransom runs out in four days' time?

0:20:47 > 0:20:51I always thought that I was too clever and too savvy,

0:20:51 > 0:20:54and I wouldn't open something like that, but that invoice,

0:20:54 > 0:20:57that e-mail got me.

0:20:58 > 0:20:59I opened it and...

0:21:01 > 0:21:02..I unleashed the beast.

0:21:05 > 0:21:07You know, it's an easy mistake to make,

0:21:07 > 0:21:11but if attempts to unlock your files fail, the results can be disastrous,

0:21:11 > 0:21:14as Charles and Sally Jones discovered in 2015

0:21:14 > 0:21:18when the main computer at the nursing home they run in Lancashire

0:21:18 > 0:21:20was also infected with ransomware.

0:21:21 > 0:21:26Everything had gone, it wasn't just, say, some photos or a few files.

0:21:26 > 0:21:29Everything that we had stored on that computer was encrypted.

0:21:29 > 0:21:31I felt sick.

0:21:31 > 0:21:33When we realised there was something going wrong,

0:21:33 > 0:21:36then you start to worry about, what have they taken?

0:21:36 > 0:21:38- Yeah.- Have they got all the information?

0:21:38 > 0:21:41- Have they got all the bank details? What have we lost?- Yeah, yeah.

0:21:41 > 0:21:43Goodness me, that is scary.

0:21:43 > 0:21:46And then you suddenly realise you've put all your eggs in one pot.

0:21:48 > 0:21:50A message came up telling Charles and Sally

0:21:50 > 0:21:54that they needed to pay a 500 ransom to get their files back.

0:21:54 > 0:21:56Like Gillian, they didn't pay up.

0:21:59 > 0:22:02But when the ransom expired, all their business accounts,

0:22:02 > 0:22:05invoices and contracts were lost,

0:22:05 > 0:22:08and they no longer had access to the backups either.

0:22:08 > 0:22:09They did enlist expert help,

0:22:09 > 0:22:12but by then it was just too late to recover the data,

0:22:12 > 0:22:15and it took them six months to get their business back on its feet.

0:22:18 > 0:22:22It meant having to trawl through the files, the paperwork,

0:22:22 > 0:22:23change all the passwords...

0:22:25 > 0:22:28Just build the whole thing up all over again.

0:22:28 > 0:22:32Back to Gillian, and she has just days to avoid the same fate,

0:22:32 > 0:22:36and it all depends on whether John can find a way to unlock her files.

0:22:36 > 0:22:38James Lyne is global head of security

0:22:38 > 0:22:41for internet security firm Sophos.

0:22:41 > 0:22:43The company's been dealing with corporate ransomware

0:22:43 > 0:22:46for a couple of years, but has noticed that attacks

0:22:46 > 0:22:49on personal computers have become much more common

0:22:49 > 0:22:50in the last couple of months.

0:22:50 > 0:22:55Really it's a question of when you'll run into ransomware, not if.

0:22:55 > 0:22:59While most attacks come as viruses attached to e-mails,

0:22:59 > 0:23:02which is what happened to Gillian and Charles and Sally,

0:23:02 > 0:23:05James is seeing more and more ransomware hiding in the background

0:23:05 > 0:23:09of websites that we might not even begin to question.

0:23:09 > 0:23:11So the other extremely common way

0:23:11 > 0:23:13that cyber-criminals will infect people

0:23:13 > 0:23:17is by putting malicious code into legitimate websites,

0:23:17 > 0:23:18so that when you visit it,

0:23:18 > 0:23:21it deploys it silently in the background.

0:23:21 > 0:23:23As soon as I browse to this web page here,

0:23:23 > 0:23:27in the background the attacker starts loading the nasty code

0:23:27 > 0:23:31and a short while later, the browser will now crash.

0:23:31 > 0:23:33Of course, you'd think nothing of it.

0:23:33 > 0:23:36You'd just close it down, open it again or go and make a cup of tea,

0:23:36 > 0:23:40but in the background we're now starting to see files encrypted.

0:23:40 > 0:23:45And just a few seconds after it's encrypted enough data that it knows

0:23:45 > 0:23:49it can snare me into paying, it pops up these messages on the screen,

0:23:49 > 0:23:53and at the top it just says, "What happened to my files?

0:23:53 > 0:23:55"What do I do?"

0:23:55 > 0:23:58And there's links to a series of payment pages

0:23:58 > 0:24:02where you can hand over money to get the information back.

0:24:02 > 0:24:06So, very quick and easy, just by browsing to a normal web page,

0:24:06 > 0:24:09I'm now in a position where all of my information is inaccessible to me

0:24:09 > 0:24:12throughout the computer.

0:24:12 > 0:24:14Web browsers are regularly updated

0:24:14 > 0:24:17to make sure they can stand up to dangerous viruses,

0:24:17 > 0:24:19so make sure you don't ignore those update messages,

0:24:19 > 0:24:22or you might be leaving the door wide open to attacks.

0:24:22 > 0:24:24Unfortunately, though,

0:24:24 > 0:24:26there's no software update that can protect you

0:24:26 > 0:24:30against clicking on an infected e-mail attachment.

0:24:30 > 0:24:33If you get an e-mail from someone you don't know,

0:24:33 > 0:24:34claiming something to do with an

0:24:34 > 0:24:37invoice or a payment that you weren't expecting,

0:24:37 > 0:24:40treat it a little bit like you would in the real world -

0:24:40 > 0:24:42be a little bit sceptical about who that person is

0:24:42 > 0:24:45and maybe don't open the attachment if you're not sure.

0:24:47 > 0:24:48But however cautious you are,

0:24:48 > 0:24:51James says the best advice is to prepare for the worst.

0:24:53 > 0:24:56Assume you're going to get infected,

0:24:56 > 0:24:59have a backup plan so that you can restore your data

0:24:59 > 0:25:02back to where you were and not have to pay the cyber-criminals money.

0:25:04 > 0:25:06If you back up all your files

0:25:06 > 0:25:09to a drive that's not permanently connected to your computer

0:25:09 > 0:25:11so it can't be infected with the same ransomware,

0:25:11 > 0:25:14it should be possible to restore your data

0:25:14 > 0:25:16to the way it was before the attack.

0:25:18 > 0:25:20Back in Oldham, Gillian hadn't done that

0:25:20 > 0:25:24and now, 13 days since her computer was infected,

0:25:24 > 0:25:25she has just 24 hours

0:25:25 > 0:25:26before the deadline

0:25:26 > 0:25:29given to her by the ransomware cyber-criminals.

0:25:30 > 0:25:32Today's the day we find out

0:25:32 > 0:25:35if John's managed to retrieve anything off my computer for me.

0:25:35 > 0:25:39I'm not holding out too much hope.

0:25:41 > 0:25:44So it's crunch time for Gillian and her precious computer.

0:25:44 > 0:25:47- Hello, Gillian. Nice to see you again.- Hi, John.- Well,

0:25:47 > 0:25:50the important thing is I've been able to retrieve a lot of the data

0:25:50 > 0:25:54- that you, that was important to you. - I'm so happy, so grateful.

0:25:54 > 0:25:55- Great.- Thank you so much.

0:25:55 > 0:25:57No, it's a pleasure, that's what we do.

0:25:57 > 0:26:00Good old John, he was able to beat the ransomware

0:26:00 > 0:26:02before the deadline expired

0:26:02 > 0:26:05by unlocking the files with specialist software.

0:26:05 > 0:26:07And while some files were lost for good,

0:26:07 > 0:26:09he was able to save the majority

0:26:09 > 0:26:12of Gillian's most precious documents and her memories.

0:26:12 > 0:26:16I'm absolutely thrilled and so grateful to John

0:26:16 > 0:26:20for all his hard work that I've got the photographs back.

0:26:20 > 0:26:21It means such a lot to me.

0:26:21 > 0:26:23I never thought we'd be able to do it,

0:26:23 > 0:26:24I thought they were lost forever.

0:26:26 > 0:26:30And she'll be doubly careful in how she protects her photographs

0:26:30 > 0:26:31in the future.

0:26:31 > 0:26:34I'm going to learn from this mistake.

0:26:34 > 0:26:36The first thing I'm going to do

0:26:36 > 0:26:38is keep a backup of them,

0:26:38 > 0:26:42and secondly I'm not going to open up any more suspicious e-mails,

0:26:42 > 0:26:44and basically just learn a lesson from it.

0:26:50 > 0:26:51Still to come on Rip Off Britain...

0:26:51 > 0:26:54Behind the scenes of one of Britain's biggest banks

0:26:54 > 0:26:58to see how its fraud team keeps your details safe.

0:26:58 > 0:27:00We can always compare the transactions

0:27:00 > 0:27:02that are presented to us with other customer spending

0:27:02 > 0:27:04that's happened previously,

0:27:04 > 0:27:06which will assist us in determining whether

0:27:06 > 0:27:07this perhaps is fraudulent or not.

0:27:11 > 0:27:13Welcome to the Rip Off Britain pop-up shop.

0:27:13 > 0:27:16This year we were at Manchester's bustling Trafford centre,

0:27:16 > 0:27:19meeting as many of you as we possibly could,

0:27:19 > 0:27:22including some of our younger viewers.

0:27:22 > 0:27:25I love that bag. That is beautiful.

0:27:27 > 0:27:29I'm really loving this open plan pop-up shop.

0:27:29 > 0:27:32It's actually the first time we've ever done it this way,

0:27:32 > 0:27:35and the great thing about it is that everyone can see what we're doing -

0:27:35 > 0:27:37we're getting lots and lots of people coming up

0:27:37 > 0:27:40to see what we're all about, and that means more problems solved.

0:27:43 > 0:27:46One family hoping to get their problem solved

0:27:46 > 0:27:50were the Bamforths - Ian, Foni and four-year-old daughter Lizzy.

0:27:50 > 0:27:52And it was a hitch with Lizzy's birthday party

0:27:52 > 0:27:55that brought them to see Trading Standards officer Sylvia Rook.

0:27:55 > 0:27:58Well, thank you both for coming in to see me this afternoon.

0:27:58 > 0:27:59How can I help you?

0:27:59 > 0:28:02Ian and Foni had booked and paid for an entertainer

0:28:02 > 0:28:07well in advance of the big day, but with hours to go she rang to cancel.

0:28:07 > 0:28:11She just cancelled because she is ill, so I said, "That's fine then,

0:28:11 > 0:28:14"but can you please find a replacement for me?"

0:28:14 > 0:28:16And then they keep saying, "I try,

0:28:16 > 0:28:20"I try," but until seven o'clock that night, we're still not getting,

0:28:20 > 0:28:24but her party's the next day which is making me all stressed out, so...

0:28:24 > 0:28:25It was very stressful.

0:28:25 > 0:28:29Foni was able it find a replacement in the nick of time,

0:28:29 > 0:28:31but having forked out for two entertainers,

0:28:31 > 0:28:35she was understandably keen to get back the £100 she'd paid to the one

0:28:35 > 0:28:40who didn't show. Trouble is, almost a year on, she's still not had it.

0:28:40 > 0:28:43So this person e-mailed me, saying, you know,

0:28:43 > 0:28:46she's going to replace the money.

0:28:46 > 0:28:48I said, "All right then," but it never arrived.

0:28:48 > 0:28:50I e-mail her back, never get a reply.

0:28:50 > 0:28:53I call her, never get pick-up.

0:28:53 > 0:28:56I leave a voicemail, never get an answer.

0:28:56 > 0:28:57Ian and Foni had almost given up

0:28:57 > 0:28:59hope of recovering their money

0:28:59 > 0:29:02until they saw that our pop-up shop was in town,

0:29:02 > 0:29:05and Sylvia's sure the cash is recoverable

0:29:05 > 0:29:07if the couple follows some simple steps.

0:29:07 > 0:29:10Well, obviously, she's in breach of contract,

0:29:10 > 0:29:13and therefore you are entitled to your money back from her.

0:29:13 > 0:29:15You've done everything right in terms of e-mails,

0:29:15 > 0:29:18but we would always recommend you put something in a letter.

0:29:18 > 0:29:20Send a letter recorded delivery, keep a copy of it,

0:29:20 > 0:29:22and now you need to say,

0:29:22 > 0:29:25"If you don't credit my bank account within 14 days,"

0:29:25 > 0:29:29then you'll be pursuing the matter through that small claims court.

0:29:29 > 0:29:32Is there any time limit for pursuing this kind of...?

0:29:32 > 0:29:35No. In terms of your consumer rights, any consumer rights,

0:29:35 > 0:29:37if you want to make any civil action,

0:29:37 > 0:29:38you've got up to six years to make a claim.

0:29:38 > 0:29:41- All right.- So there's no problem with the fact that it's over a year,

0:29:41 > 0:29:43but I would say, if you're going to do something,

0:29:43 > 0:29:45do it as soon as possible.

0:29:45 > 0:29:46Do you think that will help?

0:29:46 > 0:29:49- It will help, thank you very much. - Well, I wish you the best of luck

0:29:49 > 0:29:52with getting your money back, and I hope you have a lovely birthday.

0:29:52 > 0:29:53Armed with Sylvia's advice,

0:29:53 > 0:29:56the couple are now much more optimistic

0:29:56 > 0:29:57about getting their money back,

0:29:57 > 0:30:00and they know exactly how they'll be spending it.

0:30:00 > 0:30:03If we get the money back, then all that money's going to go to Lizzy.

0:30:03 > 0:30:06Maybe it'll go to a bigger and better birthday party next year,

0:30:06 > 0:30:08- when you're five.- Yeah.

0:30:08 > 0:30:09Elsewhere in the shopping centre,

0:30:09 > 0:30:13our lawyer Gary found an opportunity to catch up on some advice

0:30:13 > 0:30:16that he gave Gloria on the programme last year,

0:30:16 > 0:30:20and that he recommends everyone should think about putting in place.

0:30:20 > 0:30:22So, Gloria, last year we talked about

0:30:22 > 0:30:24making a lasting power of attorney

0:30:24 > 0:30:27which is a way of appointing someone to make decisions for you

0:30:27 > 0:30:29if you can't make them for yourself.

0:30:29 > 0:30:31- Have you done anything about that? - No, I'll tell you the truth,

0:30:31 > 0:30:34there's something in my make-up that doesn't want to let go,

0:30:34 > 0:30:38but I promise you I will seriously think about it, I will.

0:30:38 > 0:30:41Gloria's not the only person still mulling it over.

0:30:41 > 0:30:43Research shows that only 13% of over-50s

0:30:43 > 0:30:46have set up a lasting power of attorney,

0:30:46 > 0:30:48yet the official advice is that it's sensible

0:30:48 > 0:30:52for every adult to get one sorted in case the worst happens

0:30:52 > 0:30:55and you're unable to make financial decisions for yourself.

0:30:55 > 0:30:57Hopefully there will be an opportunity

0:30:57 > 0:30:59for you to put in hand arrangements.

0:30:59 > 0:31:01What would be awful is if there was a sudden accident

0:31:01 > 0:31:03or illness and it was too late,

0:31:03 > 0:31:06because then it can be very expensive and very worrying

0:31:06 > 0:31:07for your nearest and dearest.

0:31:07 > 0:31:09You've made me think about that aspect again.

0:31:09 > 0:31:11Gary wanted to see if this is something

0:31:11 > 0:31:13passing shoppers have considered.

0:31:13 > 0:31:16It is lovely to meet you.

0:31:16 > 0:31:19Eva is 72 and considers herself very sensible

0:31:19 > 0:31:22when it comes to putting her finances in order.

0:31:23 > 0:31:27My life insurance is paid for, my funeral's paid for.

0:31:27 > 0:31:31I don't believe in leaving my children or my grandchildren

0:31:31 > 0:31:33to do anything.

0:31:33 > 0:31:35Eva has also made a will,

0:31:35 > 0:31:39but so far she hasn't done what Gary believes is so vital.

0:31:39 > 0:31:42Now, the thing is we're talking about power of attorney.

0:31:42 > 0:31:46- Are you familiar with the phrase? - Yes, I am.- And have you done that?

0:31:46 > 0:31:48No. I...

0:31:48 > 0:31:51- Would you do it?- I would do it if I got to the state

0:31:51 > 0:31:54where I couldn't do anything properly.

0:31:54 > 0:31:56Actually, that's the wrong time to do it.

0:31:56 > 0:32:01- I know.- Yes, it's too late to sort this out when, for whatever reason,

0:32:01 > 0:32:04you may have already lost the capacity to make the best decisions,

0:32:04 > 0:32:08which is why Gary is so keen that we think about it in advance.

0:32:08 > 0:32:10But it's estimated that two thirds of us

0:32:10 > 0:32:12haven't spoken to family members

0:32:12 > 0:32:14about how we'd like our finances managed

0:32:14 > 0:32:16if we're unable to do it ourselves.

0:32:16 > 0:32:19Well, now, the thing is that you and I could make a pact,

0:32:19 > 0:32:21you see, because I've been told off

0:32:21 > 0:32:23now today for not taking out my power of attorney.

0:32:23 > 0:32:26And I think that is a point worth thinking about.

0:32:26 > 0:32:29I think I'll just go sit with my eldest granddaughter

0:32:29 > 0:32:34- and my son...- Yeah. - ..and take power of attorney out.

0:32:34 > 0:32:37Gary seems to have convinced Eva, and while, with luck,

0:32:37 > 0:32:39it's something that she'll never need,

0:32:39 > 0:32:41if a power of attorney did become necessary,

0:32:41 > 0:32:42having one already in place

0:32:42 > 0:32:45could save her family a great deal of trouble and expense.

0:32:45 > 0:32:48I think it would just be the final piece of the jigsaw,

0:32:48 > 0:32:51cos if you actually were lacking capacity,

0:32:51 > 0:32:53the bank, the building society, the post office,

0:32:53 > 0:32:56they wouldn't know how lovely your family are...

0:32:56 > 0:32:58- No.- And they wouldn't know that they are the right people

0:32:58 > 0:33:01- to be dealing with things for you. - Thanks very much indeed.

0:33:01 > 0:33:03Thank you. OK.

0:33:03 > 0:33:05- See you again.- Thank you.- Bye-bye. - Bye.

0:33:05 > 0:33:08- How fabulous is she? - Wonderful.

0:33:10 > 0:33:14I think one of my favourite parts of our pop-up shop event is this -

0:33:14 > 0:33:18Gripe Corner - because it means you can just come along,

0:33:18 > 0:33:20let off steam and tell us exactly

0:33:20 > 0:33:22what you think about anything at all.

0:33:24 > 0:33:28And that's exactly what this lady did after falling for an offer

0:33:28 > 0:33:30that had a costly sting in the tail.

0:33:30 > 0:33:34I got the promise of a voucher for £10 of petrol.

0:33:34 > 0:33:38They wanted £2.78 from me in order to send me the voucher,

0:33:38 > 0:33:41so I foolishly gave them my credit card number.

0:33:41 > 0:33:43When my credit card statement arrived,

0:33:43 > 0:33:48they'd also taken £78 and 90-odd pence to join their club.

0:33:48 > 0:33:51I still haven't received my £10 voucher.

0:33:51 > 0:33:53The whole thing has made me so furious

0:33:53 > 0:33:55with myself more than anything.

0:33:55 > 0:33:59Do never, ever, ever, never give your credit card number to anybody.

0:33:59 > 0:34:00And I'm really, really furious,

0:34:00 > 0:34:02and that's the end of my rant, thank you.

0:34:07 > 0:34:11Earlier in the programme, we saw how the tactics being used by fraudsters

0:34:11 > 0:34:13who are trying to steal your savings

0:34:13 > 0:34:15get more and more elaborate all the time,

0:34:15 > 0:34:18and, however much you may be on your guard,

0:34:18 > 0:34:21they do keep finding all-too-plausible ways

0:34:21 > 0:34:24to convince you to give them access to your cash.

0:34:24 > 0:34:27One question that we're often asked is whether or not the banks

0:34:27 > 0:34:31are actually doing enough to keep our money safe in these situations,

0:34:31 > 0:34:34so we've had an exclusive look behind the scenes

0:34:34 > 0:34:37at one of Britain's biggest and best known banks

0:34:37 > 0:34:39to find out exactly what is being done

0:34:39 > 0:34:41to stay one step ahead of the scammers.

0:34:44 > 0:34:48The bad news is that bank fraud has rocketed in recent years,

0:34:48 > 0:34:52with more than three million cases reported in 2015,

0:34:52 > 0:34:58when scammers walked away with over £750 million of our money.

0:34:58 > 0:35:02And the good news? Well, it could be a whole lot worse.

0:35:02 > 0:35:06Because, over that same period, the banks managed to prevent

0:35:06 > 0:35:08almost £1.8 billion being stolen

0:35:08 > 0:35:11by stopping the scammers in their tracks.

0:35:12 > 0:35:15But, however reassuring that may be,

0:35:15 > 0:35:19it's small consolation for anyone whose account does get plundered

0:35:19 > 0:35:21by the crooks, and those who have been scammed

0:35:21 > 0:35:24frequently tell us they simply are not happy with the way

0:35:24 > 0:35:26that their bank dealt with what happened.

0:35:26 > 0:35:29In autumn 2015, consumer group Which?

0:35:29 > 0:35:31explored that in more detail,

0:35:31 > 0:35:34surveying victims of fraud to see what they made of the way

0:35:34 > 0:35:37that the banks had handled the situation.

0:35:37 > 0:35:39And in that report, there was one big name

0:35:39 > 0:35:42that came in for particular criticism.

0:35:42 > 0:35:45Barclays had the lowest score for its overall response

0:35:45 > 0:35:49to fraud cases, and as a result it took a lot of flak in the press.

0:35:51 > 0:35:54So I'm just heading off to their corporate headquarters

0:35:54 > 0:35:56here in Canary Wharf in London,

0:35:56 > 0:35:58to see not only what they're doing

0:35:58 > 0:36:00to try and keep up with the fraudsters,

0:36:00 > 0:36:05but also how to improve the way in which they handle fraud claims.

0:36:06 > 0:36:09Barclays has invested millions in systems

0:36:09 > 0:36:14to tackle and stay one step ahead of the ever-evolving threat of fraud,

0:36:14 > 0:36:17and a key part of that is training front-line staff, like Daisy here,

0:36:17 > 0:36:21to identify fraudulent transactions as they happen,

0:36:21 > 0:36:23so the bank can stop the crime in its tracks

0:36:23 > 0:36:25and protect customers' money.

0:36:26 > 0:36:28What alerts you to the fact

0:36:28 > 0:36:30that there's a problem on someone's account?

0:36:30 > 0:36:33So the system itself will alert me as to...

0:36:33 > 0:36:35That we need to check some transactions with a customer.

0:36:35 > 0:36:37So, when we've received that call,

0:36:37 > 0:36:39it will bring the details of the transactions in question on screen.

0:36:39 > 0:36:42- Can we see that?- Yes, of course.

0:36:42 > 0:36:44We should say this isn't a real person, this is, as it were,

0:36:44 > 0:36:47- a training exercise. - Yes indeed, yeah.

0:36:47 > 0:36:48Dummy system, so to speak.

0:36:48 > 0:36:51So we're not actually looking at somebody's bank account.

0:36:51 > 0:36:52We can always compare the transactions

0:36:52 > 0:36:54that are presented to us with other customer spending

0:36:54 > 0:36:56that's happened previously,

0:36:56 > 0:36:58which will assist us in determining whether this is typical

0:36:58 > 0:37:01of that customer, whether it's in their spending profile

0:37:01 > 0:37:04and ultimately whether this is perhaps fraudulent or not.

0:37:04 > 0:37:07The software that Daisy is using contains unique profiles

0:37:07 > 0:37:11of every Barclays customer and tracks their spending habits,

0:37:11 > 0:37:13so that it can flag anything out of the ordinary

0:37:13 > 0:37:16which staff can then ring the customer to check.

0:37:17 > 0:37:19Essentially we'll detect a transaction

0:37:19 > 0:37:22that we'll need confirmation for from the customer,

0:37:22 > 0:37:23so we're going to run through, you know,

0:37:23 > 0:37:26some of their spending and check prospective fraudulent spending,

0:37:26 > 0:37:29as well, so we can identify whether that is the case.

0:37:29 > 0:37:31The software is designed to identify fraud

0:37:31 > 0:37:34when there's still time to stop it happening,

0:37:34 > 0:37:37but much of the recent criticism levelled at Barclays

0:37:37 > 0:37:39has been about how it responds to customers

0:37:39 > 0:37:42who've already lost money to criminals.

0:37:45 > 0:37:47Between 2010 and 2015,

0:37:47 > 0:37:51the financial ombudsman service received almost 15,000 complaints

0:37:51 > 0:37:53about banks refusing to refund money

0:37:53 > 0:37:56that customers had lost to fraudsters.

0:37:56 > 0:37:594,000 of those complaints were from Barclays customers,

0:37:59 > 0:38:02and that's more than for any other bank.

0:38:02 > 0:38:05Alex Grant is Barclays' head of fraud prevention.

0:38:05 > 0:38:08Why is it that there are 4,000 of your customers

0:38:08 > 0:38:12over the last five years who have not had their money refunded?

0:38:12 > 0:38:15There are a small number of cases where we would say, actually,

0:38:15 > 0:38:17it is not the bank's responsibility.

0:38:17 > 0:38:19We will profile those transactions,

0:38:19 > 0:38:21we will do our best to protect those customers,

0:38:21 > 0:38:24we will spend many more millions of pounds on customer education

0:38:24 > 0:38:28than any other bank to allow the customer to protect themselves.

0:38:28 > 0:38:31But you will know that the fraudsters, the scammers,

0:38:31 > 0:38:35get more and more convincing with their lies.

0:38:35 > 0:38:37They do all sorts of tricks

0:38:37 > 0:38:40that ensure that the person who is your customer

0:38:40 > 0:38:44on the receiving end of their telephone call believes 100%

0:38:44 > 0:38:47that they are talking to someone from Barclays,

0:38:47 > 0:38:49and yet you are saying that if they do that

0:38:49 > 0:38:52and they give away that information, they then are at fault

0:38:52 > 0:38:55and you're not prepared to reimburse them their money.

0:38:55 > 0:38:56Is that what you're saying?

0:38:56 > 0:38:58In a very, very small number of cases...

0:38:58 > 0:38:594,000 in five years.

0:38:59 > 0:39:03I'll repeat, small number of cases, we will not always refund,

0:39:03 > 0:39:08but the vast, vast majority, and it is in the very high 99 percents,

0:39:08 > 0:39:09we will refund.

0:39:12 > 0:39:14Alex, across the banking system as a whole in this country

0:39:14 > 0:39:19in the last year alone there were 3.2 million fraudulent cases online.

0:39:19 > 0:39:22What's happening? Are the fraudsters upping their game?

0:39:22 > 0:39:23Are you keeping in touch with that?

0:39:23 > 0:39:25Absolutely the fraudsters are upping their game.

0:39:25 > 0:39:28The level of attack across the industry has grown tremendously

0:39:28 > 0:39:31in the last year. At Barclays, we are absolutely upping our game,

0:39:31 > 0:39:35we have invested many millions of pounds in new technologies,

0:39:35 > 0:39:37new systems to fight against the fraudsters,

0:39:37 > 0:39:39so we are absolutely at the forefront

0:39:39 > 0:39:42of protecting our customers and fighting fraud.

0:39:42 > 0:39:44Of course Barclays isn't the only bank

0:39:44 > 0:39:48constantly reviewing its security to keep the fraudsters at bay.

0:39:48 > 0:39:49Over the coming months,

0:39:49 > 0:39:52we'll all see the levels of security on our bank accounts change

0:39:52 > 0:39:56dramatically, whether that's through fingerprint verification

0:39:56 > 0:39:58on online accounts at NatWest,

0:39:58 > 0:40:01voice recognition protection with HSBC,

0:40:01 > 0:40:05or even selfie security that knows your face,

0:40:05 > 0:40:09that's already in place at the new digital only banking service,

0:40:09 > 0:40:12Atom Bank. Of course, even with all that technology,

0:40:12 > 0:40:16if we as customers let our guard down even for a moment,

0:40:16 > 0:40:19the fraudsters will still find a way into our accounts,

0:40:19 > 0:40:23so it's up to each of us to deploy our own secret weapon

0:40:23 > 0:40:27and be cynical about every communication we get,

0:40:27 > 0:40:30asking us to do anything with our account.

0:40:30 > 0:40:34And if that means questioning even genuine contact from your bank...

0:40:34 > 0:40:36Well, better safe than sorry.

0:40:38 > 0:40:39Daisy, when you ring somebody,

0:40:39 > 0:40:41how does the person on the end of the phone

0:40:41 > 0:40:43know that you are the genuine article?

0:40:43 > 0:40:46Would you welcome it if people challenged you and said,

0:40:46 > 0:40:49"Who are you? Prove to me that you're Barclays"?

0:40:49 > 0:40:52There definitely have been occasions where customers have challenged me

0:40:52 > 0:40:55and said, you know, "How do I know who I'm speaking to?"

0:40:55 > 0:40:58And we always, you know, to an aspect, endorse that

0:40:58 > 0:41:00and say it's wonderful that you do have that vigilance.

0:41:00 > 0:41:02So you'd like everybody to do it, really.

0:41:02 > 0:41:05- Yeah, ultimately!- Thank you.

0:41:10 > 0:41:12If you've got a story you would like us to investigate,

0:41:12 > 0:41:15then you can get in touch with us via our Facebook page...

0:41:17 > 0:41:18Our website...

0:41:22 > 0:41:23Or e-mail...

0:41:27 > 0:41:30And of course you can send a letter to our postal address...

0:41:44 > 0:41:46You know, for years we've been saying that frauds

0:41:46 > 0:41:49keep getting more ingenious and harder to see them coming,

0:41:49 > 0:41:52but with some of the new techniques being employed to stop them,

0:41:52 > 0:41:54it really does feel like the banks are being just as inventive

0:41:54 > 0:41:56when it comes to keeping us all safe.

0:41:56 > 0:42:00But of course that's absolutely no consolation to anyone who find their

0:42:00 > 0:42:03money's been mysteriously spirited away,

0:42:03 > 0:42:05so the message is, stay vigilant

0:42:05 > 0:42:08and look out for even the slightest sign of anything suspicious.

0:42:08 > 0:42:11Remember, it only takes a second to be taken in.

0:42:11 > 0:42:14And we certainly hope that you've been able to pick up some tips

0:42:14 > 0:42:15from our programme today

0:42:15 > 0:42:17to ensure that it's your money

0:42:17 > 0:42:19that stays very firmly under lock and key -

0:42:19 > 0:42:22and please do keep telling us about any new scams

0:42:22 > 0:42:26that you come across so that we can get the word out as soon as possible

0:42:26 > 0:42:27to as many people as possible.

0:42:27 > 0:42:29But I'm afraid that is where we have to leave it for today,

0:42:29 > 0:42:32so thanks very much indeed, as always, for joining us,

0:42:32 > 0:42:34and we hope to see you again very soon.

0:42:34 > 0:42:35But until then, from all of us here...

0:42:35 > 0:42:37- Bye-bye.- Bye-bye.- Goodbye.