0:00:02 > 0:00:04We asked you to tell us what's left you feeling ripped off
0:00:04 > 0:00:07and you contacted us in your thousands.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10You've told us about the companies that you think get it wrong and the
0:00:10 > 0:00:13customer service that simply is not up to scratch.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16They just want to take money from people.
0:00:16 > 0:00:18That's what it's all about.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21You've asked us to track down the scammers who stole your money
0:00:21 > 0:00:24and investigate the extra charges that you say are unfair.
0:00:24 > 0:00:29What kind of people could do this to an innocent human being?
0:00:29 > 0:00:32And when you've lost out but no-one else is to blame,
0:00:32 > 0:00:35you've come to us to stop others falling into the same trap.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38You have to go through various levels of authority
0:00:38 > 0:00:40and push your way through.
0:00:40 > 0:00:44So whether it's a blatant rip-off or a genuine mistake...
0:00:44 > 0:00:46We are here to find out why you're out of pocket
0:00:46 > 0:00:49and what you can do about it.
0:00:49 > 0:00:51Your stories, your money.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53This is Rip-Off Britain.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58Hello, and welcome to Rip-Off Britain,
0:00:58 > 0:01:01the programme that loves to battle on your behalf when you haven't been
0:01:01 > 0:01:03treated in the way you'd like.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05And of course, the whole aim is to get to the bottom
0:01:05 > 0:01:06of what's gone wrong.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10Now, all the situations you've told us about today are ones where you
0:01:10 > 0:01:13found yourself hit with charges that you either didn't expect or you
0:01:13 > 0:01:15don't think you should have to pay.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17Now, the trouble is that, in most cases,
0:01:17 > 0:01:21those charges are ones which are very, very hard to avoid.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24So as we try and find out whether or not they are costs that really
0:01:24 > 0:01:26are justified, stand by for a few tips
0:01:26 > 0:01:28and a bit of advice to make sure that
0:01:28 > 0:01:30you don't get caught out in the same way.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32Indeed, one of our stories in particular
0:01:32 > 0:01:36highlights a situation in which thousands of people just might
0:01:36 > 0:01:39be heading for extra costs that they had no idea were coming.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45Coming up, how the dream of owning a brand-new home turned sour for these
0:01:45 > 0:01:46residents hit with a charge
0:01:46 > 0:01:50thousands of pounds higher than they could have ever expected.
0:01:50 > 0:01:51It's been really stressful.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54We would never have bought this house ourselves
0:01:54 > 0:01:56if we'd have known that that was in the contract.
0:01:56 > 0:01:57And power to the people -
0:01:57 > 0:02:01the angry customers taking on the might of the big energy firms.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04I'm absolutely certain this is going to succeed.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07I am putting my heart and soul into this, and I know we will succeed.
0:02:11 > 0:02:15A story that continues to dominate the news in all sorts of ways is the
0:02:15 > 0:02:17shortage of housing here in the UK.
0:02:17 > 0:02:21In fact, the number of affordable homes being built in some parts
0:02:21 > 0:02:25of the country recently slumped to an all-time low.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28But don't think that all of those who have been lucky enough to secure
0:02:28 > 0:02:31themselves a new home are now able to sit back and enjoy it,
0:02:31 > 0:02:35because we've been hearing how a surprising number of buyers
0:02:35 > 0:02:38now bitterly regret making a purchase
0:02:38 > 0:02:40that they'd hoped was an investment,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42but that instead has left them facing bills
0:02:42 > 0:02:45of tens of thousands of pounds.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48The explanation for what's gone so wrong for them has its roots in
0:02:48 > 0:02:51a change in the way that many new homes are sold.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55So if you or any one you know is thinking about buying a new-build
0:02:55 > 0:02:59property, it really is worth keeping in mind what happened to
0:02:59 > 0:03:01the people that we're about to meet.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06Behind the neatly painted railings and smart houses of this new-build
0:03:06 > 0:03:07estate in Merseyside...
0:03:09 > 0:03:11..an air of discontent is brewing.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18And the topic of conversation over the fences here -
0:03:18 > 0:03:21a charge that's left dozens of residents
0:03:21 > 0:03:23facing payments of thousands of pounds.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27And many of them fear that, on top of the unexpected expense,
0:03:27 > 0:03:30it could mean that their dream homes become very difficult,
0:03:30 > 0:03:32almost impossible to sell.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34So, obviously, why we're here tonight,
0:03:34 > 0:03:36the leasehold issues that have arisen and
0:03:36 > 0:03:39that we've all sort of discovered recently.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Lisa Roxby and her husband moved onto the estate -
0:03:42 > 0:03:45and the property ladder - seven years ago.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48We looked at the show home and just instantly loved the
0:03:48 > 0:03:50space, we loved the newness of it.
0:03:50 > 0:03:55We could instantly visualise our children playing in the toy room or,
0:03:55 > 0:03:57you know, having dinner in the kitchen.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59With their hearts set on the property,
0:03:59 > 0:04:02the couple were delighted when they got a mortgage, and then the keys
0:04:02 > 0:04:04of their brand-new home.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08We'd come from living in a small flat, so it was really great.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10We were really excited
0:04:10 > 0:04:12that we were going to be part of a nice new community.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16They were thrilled to have left their renting days behind them.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18But though they technically owned the bricks and mortar of their
0:04:18 > 0:04:20new home, the land on which the house sat
0:04:20 > 0:04:24was still owned by the developers of the estate, Taylor Wimpey.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27That's because the company sold the house as a leasehold property,
0:04:27 > 0:04:30which means that, for as long as the couple own it, they'll have to pay
0:04:30 > 0:04:33an annual fee to lease or rent the land.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36It's, of course, long been a common way of selling flats -
0:04:36 > 0:04:37and indeed some houses -
0:04:37 > 0:04:41but in recent years, a number of developers have taken to selling
0:04:41 > 0:04:45in this way homes that previously would have been sold as freehold,
0:04:45 > 0:04:47where you own the property outright
0:04:47 > 0:04:49and the land that it's built on.
0:04:49 > 0:04:53And there's increasing concern that selling houses such as Lisa's as
0:04:53 > 0:04:58leasehold may create pitfalls that buyers don't instantly appreciate.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03At that point in time, I never really understood what a leasehold
0:05:03 > 0:05:04or a freehold property was.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07All I knew at the time, when buying the house, was that
0:05:07 > 0:05:09we didn't own the land that it sat on
0:05:09 > 0:05:13and that we would pay £250 per year in ground rent
0:05:13 > 0:05:16for that, which we agreed to.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19Well, up until fairly recently, Lisa didn't think much more about it,
0:05:19 > 0:05:21until a neighbour popped round
0:05:21 > 0:05:23with news that the £250 a year ground rent
0:05:23 > 0:05:29was soon to double, and indeed would do so again every ten years.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32When Lisa checked her property deeds, she could see it was true.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36Every ten years her annual charge would become twice as high.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40So if the couple stayed living in the property for 30 years,
0:05:40 > 0:05:44by that point they'd need to pay an annual fee of £2,000 to lease
0:05:44 > 0:05:48the land - not far off ten times the amount they'd bargained for.
0:05:48 > 0:05:52We didn't have any inclination that the ground rent was going to
0:05:52 > 0:05:55increase at all, never mind that it was going to double
0:05:55 > 0:05:58and continue to double over a period of time.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00So it's just been a lot of worry.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03We would never have bought this house ourselves if we'd have known
0:06:03 > 0:06:05that that was in the contract.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Lisa fears that, while the charges are manageable now,
0:06:07 > 0:06:10they may not be in the future.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13She worries that that could put off potential buyers
0:06:13 > 0:06:14when it's time to move on.
0:06:14 > 0:06:16It's been really stressful.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19It's making us worry about our future financial security.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25Now, the paperwork for Lisa and other residents does make clear
0:06:25 > 0:06:27that their ground rent will increase.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30But as you'll see, there's a good reason why some of them
0:06:30 > 0:06:32didn't realise the full extent of that.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35And in any case, Lisa feels strongly that the solicitors that the
0:06:35 > 0:06:38developers had recommended to handle the sale -
0:06:38 > 0:06:40a company called Bannister Preston -
0:06:40 > 0:06:43should have made sure that the consequences of buying
0:06:43 > 0:06:46a leasehold property were properly explained.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49And that's something that solicitor, and Rip-Off Britain regular,
0:06:49 > 0:06:52Gary Rycroft says is a common complaint.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57We always used to see new-build houses being sold as freehold,
0:06:57 > 0:07:00And then, a few years ago, developers cottoned on to the idea
0:07:00 > 0:07:02of selling them as leasehold,
0:07:02 > 0:07:06because that would allow them to still own the underlying freehold
0:07:06 > 0:07:08and to collect a ground rent year on year
0:07:08 > 0:07:11from the people who have bought the house.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13The ground rent starts as a small sum,
0:07:13 > 0:07:15but it builds up over a number of years. And clearly,
0:07:15 > 0:07:18if you stay in the house for a long time,
0:07:18 > 0:07:20then the amount of money you will pay out in ground rent
0:07:20 > 0:07:22will be quite significant.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27Lisa worked out that if they stayed in the property until the 50th
0:07:27 > 0:07:32anniversary of the lease they would have paid £77,000 in ground rent.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35That is our children's inheritance gone.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38It's something that we've worked hard for, and that we would always
0:07:38 > 0:07:41envisage handing our house down to our children.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46As news of the impact of the ground rent increase has spread across the
0:07:46 > 0:07:50estate, it's become THE topic of conversation among neighbours,
0:07:50 > 0:07:52including Chris, who lives next door to Lisa.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55Cos it's such a lot that it's going up by as well.
0:07:55 > 0:07:57- Oh, it's terrible. It's doubling.- Yeah.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00It's absolutely shocking to me - I wasn't expecting that at all.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04And while you might think it's up to you as a buyer to understand
0:08:04 > 0:08:06exactly what you're signing up for,
0:08:06 > 0:08:08well, in this case it's not that easy.
0:08:08 > 0:08:12Because when some of these residents checked their paperwork, it became
0:08:12 > 0:08:15clear that the solicitors that residents say were recommended
0:08:15 > 0:08:18by the developers had included incorrect information,
0:08:18 > 0:08:23saying the ground rent would double every 25 years, and not ten.
0:08:25 > 0:08:27Now, when I went through all my paperwork,
0:08:27 > 0:08:30it seems that I wasn't advised of this.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33- I was expecting it to go up every 25 years...- OK.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36..but it seems that, like yours, mine's going up every ten years,
0:08:36 > 0:08:40which is a little bit more of a shock to me.
0:08:40 > 0:08:41And no wonder.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45Over 50 years, the difference between doubling that original
0:08:45 > 0:08:49£250 every ten years rather than every 25
0:08:49 > 0:08:55would mean forking out an extra £38,750 in ground rent.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58When we found out about the issue,
0:08:58 > 0:09:02we decided to knock around on doors on the estate.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05It's a massive estate with...with probably
0:09:05 > 0:09:06just short of 300 properties.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10Everyone was equally as shocked when we explained to them
0:09:10 > 0:09:12what we'd found.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15Lisa's called an urgent meeting of affected residents to find out if
0:09:15 > 0:09:20there's anything they can do, and over 100 people have come along.
0:09:20 > 0:09:22Down the line, we may look to move elsewhere.
0:09:22 > 0:09:26And at the moment, we can't make them plans for the future now
0:09:26 > 0:09:30because we know, under this clause within our leasehold,
0:09:30 > 0:09:31that we are at a loss.
0:09:31 > 0:09:36Lisa is spurred on by the number of people attending the meeting.
0:09:36 > 0:09:37And having looked at the paperwork,
0:09:37 > 0:09:40solicitor Gary Rycroft thinks it may be worth
0:09:40 > 0:09:43Lisa and the other residents on the estate
0:09:43 > 0:09:46taking their case to the Legal Ombudsman.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48Lisa's solicitor made a mistake.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51The report that she'd got said that the ground rent would go up after
0:09:51 > 0:09:5525 years, whereas in fact it goes up after ten years.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59So that is a mistake, and on the face of it Lisa has a claim against
0:09:59 > 0:10:02her solicitor for providing her with the wrong information.
0:10:02 > 0:10:08Now, you might think the confusion over this increase is just bad luck.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12But astonishingly, something very similar has occurred on this estate
0:10:12 > 0:10:15in Greater Manchester, where father-of-two Paul Faye
0:10:15 > 0:10:19bought his brand-new three-bedroom family house in 2011.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22I knew it was a leasehold house.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25It's something I've heard of in the past.
0:10:25 > 0:10:28I know my parents, et cetera, have had leasehold houses
0:10:28 > 0:10:32where the lease typically was 1,000 years.
0:10:32 > 0:10:36They pay a small amount every year, and it's never really bothered them.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39When Paul bought his house for £152,000,
0:10:39 > 0:10:43he was aware that he would have to pay the freeholder an annual charge
0:10:43 > 0:10:44of £200.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47But the solicitors involved in his purchase -
0:10:47 > 0:10:50a business called Cohen Filippini -
0:10:50 > 0:10:52which again was recommended by the developer,
0:10:52 > 0:10:54also got wrong the key detail of
0:10:54 > 0:10:57how frequently the charge would increase.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00They'd sent us a letter saying the lease was subject to review every
0:11:00 > 0:11:04'20 years, but I've since found out that's not right.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08'It's up for review every 15 years, and it will at least double.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11'My concern is that, as that rises, if our mortgage payments go up,'
0:11:11 > 0:11:15this house will become less and less affordable for us.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17If Paul stays in the house for 45 years,
0:11:17 > 0:11:20when the ground rent will have doubled for a third time,
0:11:20 > 0:11:23it will have gone up from £200 a year
0:11:23 > 0:11:25to £1,600 a year.
0:11:25 > 0:11:29And over that time, it will have cost him nearly £21,000,
0:11:29 > 0:11:32a fact that Paul believes should have been properly explained to him
0:11:32 > 0:11:34when he bought the property.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36They didn't really make any issue of the leasehold
0:11:36 > 0:11:40of the property. They didn't advise us of any negative implications from
0:11:40 > 0:11:42it. They just seemed to say, "Yeah, it's a leasehold."
0:11:46 > 0:11:50Well, we contacted the solicitors in both these cases.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53Bannister Preston, who advised on Lisa's purchase,
0:11:53 > 0:11:56said it couldn't comment directly as the matter is the subject
0:11:56 > 0:12:00of civil claims, which it would vigorously defend.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03But the company insisted it did advise buyers on the terms of
0:12:03 > 0:12:07the lease before purchase, including the doubling of the ground rent.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11Similarly, the firm that advised Paul, Cohen Filippini,
0:12:11 > 0:12:13was told he, too, would have been alerted
0:12:13 > 0:12:15to the ground rent increases,
0:12:15 > 0:12:17which it says are...
0:12:21 > 0:12:24Both companies pointed out the increases are eventually capped,
0:12:24 > 0:12:28but neither responded directly to the allegation that home-buyers
0:12:28 > 0:12:30hadn't been given the right information.
0:12:30 > 0:12:33Meanwhile, the developer of Lisa's estate, Taylor Wimpey,
0:12:33 > 0:12:36which has since sold on the freehold,
0:12:36 > 0:12:40reiterated that the lease terms were...
0:12:40 > 0:12:42Adding that buyers received...
0:12:46 > 0:12:48However, it added that it's actively...
0:12:51 > 0:12:54And pointed out that, because of...
0:12:56 > 0:12:59..since 2011, it's stopped using this particular
0:12:59 > 0:13:00sort of leasehold agreement.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03And just as this programme was being completed,
0:13:03 > 0:13:07the company announced that it will be putting aside £130 million
0:13:07 > 0:13:09to settle disputes over the issue,
0:13:09 > 0:13:11accepting that leasehold agreements like these
0:13:11 > 0:13:13have caused understandable worry.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17The company also said that it was sorry for the unintended
0:13:17 > 0:13:20financial consequences that these leases have caused,
0:13:20 > 0:13:24and have confirmed that, from January 2017,
0:13:24 > 0:13:28all future sales of Taylor Wimpey houses on new developments
0:13:28 > 0:13:30will be...
0:13:32 > 0:13:34But whilst that's good news for some,
0:13:34 > 0:13:37it won't change things for anyone who has a leasehold
0:13:37 > 0:13:41that Taylor Wimpey itself no longer owns. So, for example,
0:13:41 > 0:13:44it won't help Lisa or the others on her estate,
0:13:44 > 0:13:47because the lease has already been sold on to a third party.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54What's more, with recent figures showing that in 2015 nearly half
0:13:54 > 0:13:57of all new builds were sold as leasehold,
0:13:57 > 0:13:59it's crucial that anyone buying a house this way
0:13:59 > 0:14:02understands fully what they're getting themselves into.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06You're caught up in the excitement of finding your dream home,
0:14:06 > 0:14:08growing your family.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12You put your trust completely in the solicitor to tell you what you need
0:14:12 > 0:14:13to know at that stage.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16And if they don't tell you something, you don't question -
0:14:16 > 0:14:19you don't question whether there's something missing.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21You just take their word for it.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24My advice to anyone now looking to buy a new-build which is a leasehold
0:14:24 > 0:14:28property, would be to read the documents very carefully,
0:14:28 > 0:14:31get their own solicitor that's not recommended by the developer.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39Now, if you've ever winced when you've received your latest
0:14:39 > 0:14:43gas or electricity bill, or watched with total confusion as one,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46followed swiftly by the rest of the big six energy companies,
0:14:46 > 0:14:48hiked up their prices,
0:14:48 > 0:14:50then you'll have sympathy with the people that we are about to meet.
0:14:50 > 0:14:53So fed up were they at what they considered
0:14:53 > 0:14:56the unreasonable behaviour of whichever of the main suppliers
0:14:56 > 0:14:58they were getting their energy from
0:14:58 > 0:15:01that they took some really, really drastic action.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04And although what they did to battle against their bills is not for the
0:15:04 > 0:15:07faint-hearted, it does, I think you'll agree,
0:15:07 > 0:15:10show just how far people feel they've got to go
0:15:10 > 0:15:12to try and get a better deal - not just for themselves,
0:15:12 > 0:15:14but for other people as well.
0:15:17 > 0:15:19You've been saying it for years...
0:15:19 > 0:15:22My current energy company is putting the price up.
0:15:22 > 0:15:23The price has hiked quite a bit.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27..with the same points and concerns coming up time and time again.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31I think the energy prices that are set by the big six energy companies
0:15:31 > 0:15:33are really much too high,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36and they're obviously set to benefit themselves and
0:15:36 > 0:15:39their shareholders, rather than consumers.
0:15:39 > 0:15:40People have just had enough.
0:15:40 > 0:15:44Personally, I'm looking for a new companies time to time.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48I don't want to stay any one company - just for the prices.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51And now even the Government and the regulator Ofgem agree that the big
0:15:51 > 0:15:54energy companies have had it all their own way for too long.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58Prime Minister Theresa May recently declared that...
0:16:01 > 0:16:05Prices have risen by 158% in nine years,
0:16:05 > 0:16:10with several of the big names' latest inflation-busting hikes just
0:16:10 > 0:16:11starting to come into effect.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14It's perhaps no wonder that in a recent survey more than
0:16:14 > 0:16:19a third of all people asked - said they simply do not trust their
0:16:19 > 0:16:20energy supplier.
0:16:20 > 0:16:22It seems that all these energy companies...
0:16:24 > 0:16:26..they'll all kind of follow the same pricing bracket,
0:16:26 > 0:16:28so there's no real competition.
0:16:31 > 0:16:33But across the country, there is
0:16:33 > 0:16:35a quiet revolution taking place.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37Many of us are now opting for
0:16:37 > 0:16:39smaller energy firms, who seemingly
0:16:39 > 0:16:42have a more ethical, customer-focused stance.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45So while we often still talk about the big six,
0:16:45 > 0:16:49there are now around 50 suppliers operating in the UK.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52And nearly half of the eight million switches made last year
0:16:52 > 0:16:56were to small or medium-sized energy firms.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59And beyond that, some unhappy customers of the best-known names
0:16:59 > 0:17:03have taken their discontent further than simply switching.
0:17:03 > 0:17:07They've even gone as far as setting up their own energy companies.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10David Pike and Karen Soto from just outside Edinburgh
0:17:10 > 0:17:12are doing just that.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16So disenchanted were they with their energy supplier that they decided to
0:17:16 > 0:17:18take some radical action.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21As customers ourselves of one of the big six,
0:17:21 > 0:17:25we've had lots of experience of being frustrated as well,
0:17:25 > 0:17:27just as so many others have.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30And have felt at times there must be a different way of doing it,
0:17:30 > 0:17:35a way that makes you feel less like a number and more like it matters.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38And we saw how disconnected they are with the customer,
0:17:38 > 0:17:39and I just thought,
0:17:39 > 0:17:42"There has to be a better way of doing this.
0:17:42 > 0:17:44"There must be a better way of connecting the customer
0:17:44 > 0:17:48"to the person who's actually selling you gas and electricity."
0:17:48 > 0:17:52David and Karen are trying to raise enough money to set up an
0:17:52 > 0:17:55energy firm, which they hope will supply gas and electricity
0:17:55 > 0:17:57to customers nationwide.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00And from comments on the fundraising website they have set up,
0:18:00 > 0:18:04the unhappiness felt by some towards the big six is clear to see.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08I love this comment. "It feels good to be part of something like this
0:18:08 > 0:18:09"and helping to get it started.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13"It just demonstrates the degree of mistrust and dissatisfaction
0:18:13 > 0:18:16"with the current shower that run the big six energy companies.
0:18:16 > 0:18:19"If this causes them to sit up and take notice,
0:18:19 > 0:18:21"it will be a great pleasure to be able to say,
0:18:21 > 0:18:23""You are too late - now, pay the penalty."
0:18:23 > 0:18:26"Good to be playing my small part in this brave venture."
0:18:26 > 0:18:28- That was nice.- Hm.
0:18:30 > 0:18:35But whilst taking on such a huge and complicated industry may seem like
0:18:35 > 0:18:38an extreme way of dealing with their dissatisfaction with the big six,
0:18:38 > 0:18:42Karen and David are convinced that they can make a complicated industry
0:18:42 > 0:18:44much simpler for the consumer.
0:18:44 > 0:18:48And they reckon that it's the pressure from shareholders
0:18:48 > 0:18:51that means the big six have to keep raising their prices
0:18:51 > 0:18:52without any real challenge,
0:18:52 > 0:18:55and that's why they're determined to do things differently.
0:18:58 > 0:19:00It's an ambitious venture,
0:19:00 > 0:19:04to tackle the big six and create an alternative to them.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08After seven years, we'll return 100% of the profits to the customers.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11Also, the customers get shares that they own,
0:19:11 > 0:19:14so they have a voting right within the company.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17So the customers will have shares in the business
0:19:17 > 0:19:19and they will keep those shares as long
0:19:19 > 0:19:21as they are a part of our company.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25We hope and believe that it will make customers feel more...
0:19:26 > 0:19:29..invested in different ways. Both, of course, financially,
0:19:29 > 0:19:31but also, more importantly,
0:19:31 > 0:19:34emotionally in the company that is theirs,
0:19:34 > 0:19:37that they own and therefore would want to stay with us.
0:19:37 > 0:19:39That should be a no-brainer.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43But there's no getting away from the fact that David and Karen are
0:19:43 > 0:19:48entering a tough business. And not all the newer entrants to the market
0:19:48 > 0:19:49have managed to stay afloat.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52One recent casualty was the company GB energy,
0:19:52 > 0:19:55a small energy supplier that was set up in 2013
0:19:55 > 0:19:57and folded three years later,
0:19:57 > 0:20:01after what it called a swift but significant increase
0:20:01 > 0:20:03in wholesale energy prices.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06It's easier for the longer-established big six to
0:20:06 > 0:20:08weather such fluctuations in cost.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11Which means that, while it's all very encouraging to think
0:20:11 > 0:20:13that the power really can be returned to the people,
0:20:13 > 0:20:16in reality, life for the smaller energy companies
0:20:16 > 0:20:18can be anything but warm and cosy.
0:20:18 > 0:20:22Even so, there are a number of others taking a stand,
0:20:22 > 0:20:26including some city councils like Manchester, Nottingham and Cardiff,
0:20:26 > 0:20:28who are amongst those who either already have
0:20:28 > 0:20:31or are looking into setting up their own energy companies,
0:20:31 > 0:20:33supplying not just to the local community,
0:20:33 > 0:20:35but nationally,
0:20:35 > 0:20:39helping boost their coffers and fund community projects.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42Peter Haigh is the man in charge of the council-owned energy company in
0:20:42 > 0:20:44Bristol, and he believes people
0:20:44 > 0:20:46welcome that consumer-focused message.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50It was about making sure that we were a very ethical business,
0:20:50 > 0:20:53that we reached out to the fuel poor and those that are disadvantaged
0:20:53 > 0:20:56and really set a new sort of benchmark in energy retailing.
0:20:56 > 0:21:00What we have also found is that customers in Dundee or Littlehampton
0:21:00 > 0:21:05or Truro actually really like the fact the future profits
0:21:05 > 0:21:08will go to a community - even if it's not theirs,
0:21:08 > 0:21:12they would much rather it went to a community rather than lining the
0:21:12 > 0:21:14pockets of a private investor.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20But the company, which has now been operating for just over a year,
0:21:20 > 0:21:22has seen first-hand just how tough it is
0:21:22 > 0:21:24at the coal front of the industry.
0:21:24 > 0:21:26Despite having around 40,000 customers,
0:21:26 > 0:21:28they're yet to make a profit.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30And with money still very tight,
0:21:30 > 0:21:32it's easy to see why anyone wishing
0:21:32 > 0:21:36to start up their own energy company needs nerves of steel.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40Their website has sometimes struggled to keep up with demand,
0:21:40 > 0:21:42crashing at times of peak activity.
0:21:42 > 0:21:44And some of its reviews aren't good either,
0:21:44 > 0:21:47with some customers wondering whether dumping the bigger names
0:21:47 > 0:21:50for the smaller one was actually a good idea after all.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54It's always a challenging journey with a start-up,
0:21:54 > 0:21:56but we are on-plan
0:21:56 > 0:21:59and looking forward to future profits.
0:21:59 > 0:22:02'We've always said that our tariffs will be fair.'
0:22:02 > 0:22:04We never set out to be the cheapest.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06What we set out to do is offer consistent pricing
0:22:06 > 0:22:09that is fair, whether you're a direct debit customer
0:22:09 > 0:22:10or a prepayment customer.
0:22:11 > 0:22:14'And we've seen customers respond to that.'
0:22:14 > 0:22:15In ten years' time,
0:22:15 > 0:22:19the key thing is that Bristol Energy has delivered on all its promises,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22that we continue to offer a really fair deal to customers.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26Although 56% of people in the UK have still never changed
0:22:26 > 0:22:29their energy supplier, switching levels recently reached
0:22:29 > 0:22:33their highest point for several years.
0:22:33 > 0:22:35But personal finance expert Sarah Pennells says
0:22:35 > 0:22:38the customer experience using the smaller companies
0:22:38 > 0:22:42may sometimes be worse, not better, than with the big six.
0:22:42 > 0:22:45I think one of the ways that the independent, smaller companies
0:22:45 > 0:22:47are trying to differentiate themselves from the big six
0:22:47 > 0:22:50is on customer service, because they know the big six,
0:22:50 > 0:22:52many of them, frankly, have been fairly appalling
0:22:52 > 0:22:54at it over the years.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56But the trouble is, it's very easy to come up with a slick answer,
0:22:56 > 0:22:58a caring marketing message.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01It's much harder to get the customer service right behind that.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04And one of the particular issues for the smaller companies is
0:23:04 > 0:23:06if they have a very good tariff,
0:23:06 > 0:23:09they can find they just don't have the resources to cope with it.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12So when they launched, the customer service may be brilliant.
0:23:12 > 0:23:16Six months down the line, it could, frankly, be appalling.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18Sarah is in no doubt that, for most of us,
0:23:18 > 0:23:21switching - whether to big or a small supplier -
0:23:21 > 0:23:23is usually a good idea.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27And although if a smaller company goes bust you will be protected,
0:23:27 > 0:23:30she thinks the risks are still worth bearing in mind.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32Under Ofgem, the energy regulator's rules,
0:23:32 > 0:23:36you won't be left high and dry with no gas or electricity.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39They will basically appoint another supplier to take over your supply,
0:23:39 > 0:23:42so you won't notice any disruption.
0:23:42 > 0:23:45The disadvantage is that you may not then be on that great deal
0:23:45 > 0:23:46that you signed up to,
0:23:46 > 0:23:51cos the new supplier is under no obligation to carry on supplying you
0:23:51 > 0:23:52at the same price you were paying.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57Now, over the years we've had several heated exchanges
0:23:57 > 0:23:58with Energy UK,
0:23:58 > 0:24:02the organisation that represents all the energy companies in the UK,
0:24:02 > 0:24:04big or small.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06Lawrence, this is the fifth time I've been here
0:24:06 > 0:24:09to these officers to interview you for Rip-Off Britain.
0:24:09 > 0:24:13There are many instances where the customer service is just atrocious.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16And we've done it in our office. We've carried out our own survey.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19And we've been sitting there 40-45 minutes before you get to a person.
0:24:19 > 0:24:23If you have a problem with your bill, if you've got to sit on
0:24:23 > 0:24:2740-45 minutes, you are frustrated by the time you actually get a person.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30I agree. And, look,
0:24:30 > 0:24:33all I can say is we haven't performed as well
0:24:33 > 0:24:35as we would want to.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39There are instances where companies are turning the boat round, if you
0:24:39 > 0:24:44will, where actually wait times and volumes are falling.
0:24:44 > 0:24:46When we got in touch on this topic,
0:24:46 > 0:24:50it told us that, collectively, the smaller, independent suppliers
0:24:50 > 0:24:53now have a greater market share than ScottishPower,
0:24:53 > 0:24:56Npower and EDF Energy individually.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59And smaller suppliers are showing strong...
0:25:01 > 0:25:05And welcome news that many of the people switching last year
0:25:05 > 0:25:07were doing so for the very first time.
0:25:07 > 0:25:10As a result, in just one year, the number of people
0:25:10 > 0:25:11on standard tariffs,
0:25:11 > 0:25:15usually the most expensive, dropped by 880,000.
0:25:17 > 0:25:18Meanwhile, just outside Edinburgh,
0:25:18 > 0:25:21it's a nail-biting time for David and Karen.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25They're putting a lot of faith and their own money into what they hope
0:25:25 > 0:25:28will be an alternative to the big boys of the energy market.
0:25:28 > 0:25:32But whether they can succeed where others have failed, remains,
0:25:32 > 0:25:33of course, to be seen.
0:25:33 > 0:25:36I am absolutely certain this is going to succeed.
0:25:36 > 0:25:39I am putting my heart and soul into this and I know the other members of
0:25:39 > 0:25:42the company are as well, and we will succeed.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Well, if you're one of that 56% who still never switch supplier,
0:25:46 > 0:25:49remember you could save hundreds off your bill.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52And if you're not sure what to do, do head to our website...
0:25:55 > 0:25:59..where you will find tips to make the process simple.
0:26:03 > 0:26:05Still to come on Rip-Off Britain -
0:26:05 > 0:26:07as space for burials runs out,
0:26:07 > 0:26:11why this woman was hit with an unexpected charge
0:26:11 > 0:26:12to bury her father.
0:26:12 > 0:26:16This overall experience has made me very cross
0:26:16 > 0:26:21with Barking and Dagenham Council for making me have these feelings
0:26:21 > 0:26:25at the time when I'm already grieving about my father.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32Once again this year, we opened up our pop-up shop,
0:26:32 > 0:26:35giving out free consumer advice in one of the UK's busiest shopping
0:26:35 > 0:26:40centres. One of the best parts was meeting so many Rip-Off viewers.
0:26:40 > 0:26:42You sound as if you know what we are all about.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44- Oh, yes, watch you.- Excellent.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47And it was no surprise to find many of you had some consumer tips
0:26:47 > 0:26:48of your own.
0:26:48 > 0:26:51If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
0:26:51 > 0:26:54One of the experts returning to our pop-up shop this year
0:26:54 > 0:26:58was Caroline Wells from the Financial Ombudsman Service,
0:26:58 > 0:27:00who was only too happy to find a moment to spell out
0:27:00 > 0:27:04how that service can help if you have a problem.
0:27:04 > 0:27:07Caroline, so many times we hear that people have said,
0:27:07 > 0:27:10"Go to the Financial Ombudsman and they'll sort you out."
0:27:10 > 0:27:13- Yes.- So I thought maybe we would just look at exactly what
0:27:13 > 0:27:16the organisation is and what it stands for.
0:27:16 > 0:27:19So the Ombudsman Service is there for anybody that's got a complaint
0:27:19 > 0:27:23about their financial business - your bank, your insurance company.
0:27:23 > 0:27:25If you just can't get yourself heard,
0:27:25 > 0:27:26then you come to the Ombudsman.
0:27:26 > 0:27:28There is no problem too small.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31What is the spectrum, then, of things that you've seen
0:27:31 > 0:27:32in your time?
0:27:32 > 0:27:34Anything from somebody being owed five pence
0:27:34 > 0:27:37to hundreds of thousands of pounds.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39And is it a free service?
0:27:39 > 0:27:42It is. It's free to consumers to use.
0:27:42 > 0:27:44The only thing you have to do is spend a bit of time
0:27:44 > 0:27:46to have a chat to us about what's troubling you,
0:27:46 > 0:27:49and we'll talk you through what we can do to help.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51For me, one of the most important things is - you don't have
0:27:51 > 0:27:54to have a case to come to us.
0:27:54 > 0:27:57If it's a hunch, if it's a feeling that you have got,
0:27:57 > 0:27:59that is just as important.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02It doesn't matter your background, how much money you earn,
0:28:02 > 0:28:03what the problem is -
0:28:03 > 0:28:06if it's worth it to you, that's all that matters.
0:28:07 > 0:28:10And if you want to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service,
0:28:10 > 0:28:12its web address is...
0:28:15 > 0:28:16Or you can call free on...
0:28:22 > 0:28:25One person who came in to see Caroline - along with a new face
0:28:25 > 0:28:26on our experts team,
0:28:26 > 0:28:29cybercrime and fraud solicitor Arun Chauhan -
0:28:29 > 0:28:31was Harry Nuttall from Blackburn.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34On the hunt for a second-hand camper van,
0:28:34 > 0:28:39Harry had spotted one for sale on an online auction site for £4,000.
0:28:39 > 0:28:41I attempted to purchase...
0:28:43 > 0:28:45..a camper from an online auction site.
0:28:45 > 0:28:49I did a bit of checking. I thought it looked a good buy.
0:28:49 > 0:28:53It was a kosher registration, it was taxed,
0:28:53 > 0:28:56so it must have been insured by somebody. So I thought, "Right, OK."
0:28:57 > 0:29:00But after registering his interest to buy the caravan,
0:29:00 > 0:29:03an online scammer managed to hijack proceedings,
0:29:03 > 0:29:06intercepting the sale and e-mailing
0:29:06 > 0:29:10Harry his own instructions on how and where to pay the £4,000,
0:29:10 > 0:29:14which he asked to be transferred using a money transfer website.
0:29:14 > 0:29:15So, I go on,
0:29:15 > 0:29:19it's gone seven o'clock at night by the time I've managed to sort of
0:29:19 > 0:29:21process all this lot, and it's sent.
0:29:21 > 0:29:24I then thought about it and I thought, "Right,
0:29:24 > 0:29:29"I'll see that this money has actually passed through my account,"
0:29:29 > 0:29:30and it didn't show anything.
0:29:30 > 0:29:32So I rang the auction site, they said,
0:29:32 > 0:29:36- "Oh, no, no, you've been had, mate. It's a scam."- It's a scam, yeah.
0:29:36 > 0:29:39As it was the weekend and the payment wouldn't be leaving his
0:29:39 > 0:29:42account till Monday, Harry called his bank to stop the transfer
0:29:42 > 0:29:44to the fraudster's account,
0:29:44 > 0:29:47which by chance happened to be with the same bank.
0:29:47 > 0:29:49She confirmed that the money was still there and that the money
0:29:49 > 0:29:52was still in the account and it hadn't been taken out.
0:29:52 > 0:29:55His bank told him it would stop the transaction from happening.
0:29:55 > 0:29:57But come Monday, for whatever reason,
0:29:57 > 0:30:00the £4,000 transfer did go ahead.
0:30:00 > 0:30:03No thanks to his bank, Harry had lost his money to the fraudsters.
0:30:03 > 0:30:06You went in very quickly after you realised you'd been scammed.
0:30:06 > 0:30:07Within hours.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10And the fact that they seemed to believe that the money was
0:30:10 > 0:30:12still in your account and hadn't transferred over,
0:30:12 > 0:30:15I think that's something that we need to look into further as well.
0:30:15 > 0:30:17- Right, OK.- I think Caroline's right.
0:30:17 > 0:30:20They have the facilities, as far as I'm concerned,
0:30:20 > 0:30:23to suspend the account, and I'd want to query why that hasn't happened.
0:30:23 > 0:30:25We have to be careful. It's not a legal obligation to repay you,
0:30:25 > 0:30:28but they do have a discretion where they can say, in your case,
0:30:28 > 0:30:29it's worth looking at,
0:30:29 > 0:30:32and I do think it's worth pushing that forward.
0:30:34 > 0:30:36The advice that I've had today
0:30:36 > 0:30:38has been well worthwhile.
0:30:38 > 0:30:41And now I've got professional guidance
0:30:41 > 0:30:45and they're pretty sure that I've got a justifiable case.
0:30:45 > 0:30:47So, yeah, I'm quite pleased.
0:30:47 > 0:30:50After the pop-up shop, Caroline spoke to Harry again.
0:30:50 > 0:30:55She set up a complaint for him with the Financial Ombudsman Service
0:30:55 > 0:30:57and it's going to involve a full investigation.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04Now, this next subject is something most of us, I'd guess, don't like
0:31:04 > 0:31:07thinking about, let alone discussing.
0:31:07 > 0:31:11And that's what it's going to cost us to be buried after we die.
0:31:11 > 0:31:15It may feel a bit of a conversation stopper over the dinner table,
0:31:15 > 0:31:17but having a chat about what you'd like,
0:31:17 > 0:31:19can take a lot of the stress out of the situation
0:31:19 > 0:31:22for those closest to you when the time comes.
0:31:22 > 0:31:25However, things may not be quite as straightforward as you think.
0:31:25 > 0:31:29One Rip-Off viewer found herself first of all perplexed
0:31:29 > 0:31:30and then really angry
0:31:30 > 0:31:34about a charge she didn't think she should be paying.
0:31:34 > 0:31:36And when she asked us to take a look,
0:31:36 > 0:31:39we found that what's behind it is a much bigger problem,
0:31:39 > 0:31:42affecting graveyards right across the country.
0:31:44 > 0:31:48It's often said that there are only two certainties in life -
0:31:48 > 0:31:50death and taxation.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53And Amanda Mosley from Essex has found herself with a problem that
0:31:53 > 0:31:55combines elements of both.
0:31:56 > 0:32:00Amanda and her family have always lived in and around the East London
0:32:00 > 0:32:01borough of Barking and Dagenham.
0:32:01 > 0:32:03In fact, they love the area so much
0:32:03 > 0:32:07they've committed to spending the rest of eternity there.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10Because for nearly 60 years now, they've owned a family burial plot
0:32:10 > 0:32:13in the local cemetery.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16In 1963, my grandma passed away,
0:32:16 > 0:32:19and she bought a plot of land in Rippleside Cemetery
0:32:19 > 0:32:23so that herself and two other people
0:32:23 > 0:32:25could be buried there,
0:32:25 > 0:32:29and that was going to be my mother and my father.
0:32:29 > 0:32:32Now, reserving the space where you're going to be buried may not be
0:32:32 > 0:32:34something you'd given too much thought to,
0:32:34 > 0:32:38but when Amanda's father Joseph died in September last year,
0:32:38 > 0:32:41it was reassuring to know that this had already been taken care of.
0:32:43 > 0:32:47It was always known that both my mum and dad wanted to be buried
0:32:47 > 0:32:49with my nan at Rippleside Cemetery.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52So we made some enquiries into how we went about doing that.
0:32:54 > 0:32:58Amanda was told it was going to cost £960 to bury her father in the
0:32:58 > 0:33:01family plot. And if that sounds steep,
0:33:01 > 0:33:04it's actually rather less than the average national cost,
0:33:04 > 0:33:08which is typically around £1,645.
0:33:08 > 0:33:12My initial reaction to £960 was, "That is quite a lot of money."
0:33:12 > 0:33:16But I completely understand that payment has to be made,
0:33:16 > 0:33:19so I thought that was probably a fair price.
0:33:20 > 0:33:22Unfortunately for Amanda, however,
0:33:22 > 0:33:27her father's burial costs were about to climb significantly higher.
0:33:27 > 0:33:30She was astonished to be told there was going to be an additional fee,
0:33:30 > 0:33:33and that's because, despite having lived in the area for so long,
0:33:33 > 0:33:37for the last 12 years of his life Amanda's father, Joseph,
0:33:37 > 0:33:39had moved outside of Barking and Dagenham,
0:33:39 > 0:33:42which meant his burial incurred an extra charge.
0:33:43 > 0:33:47Purely because my dad was a non-resident, it was an extra £1,000.
0:33:47 > 0:33:49There was no explanation.
0:33:49 > 0:33:53I asked for a breakdown of costs on several occasions and I was never
0:33:53 > 0:33:57given a reply. I feel very cross about the extra money,
0:33:57 > 0:33:59mainly because my dad spent at least 60 years
0:33:59 > 0:34:02as a resident of Barking and Dagenham Council,
0:34:02 > 0:34:04and he worked all that time,
0:34:04 > 0:34:08paying his council tax, and yet he was still charged this extra money.
0:34:10 > 0:34:12Unhappy about the extra cost
0:34:12 > 0:34:13when, as far as she was concerned,
0:34:13 > 0:34:16her father had been a local resident for many years,
0:34:16 > 0:34:18paying all the appropriate taxes,
0:34:18 > 0:34:20Amanda wrote to us.
0:34:21 > 0:34:25And while Barking and Dagenham Council didn't explain to us either
0:34:25 > 0:34:27exactly how that charge breaks down,
0:34:27 > 0:34:30it did make clear why it feels it's necessary.
0:34:30 > 0:34:34It's the result of what is rapidly becoming a national problem -
0:34:34 > 0:34:37the growing shortage of available land for new plots.
0:34:38 > 0:34:42The council told us that...
0:34:42 > 0:34:44..and no further burial income is forthcoming,
0:34:44 > 0:34:48the cemeteries still need to be able to generate an income
0:34:48 > 0:34:50to pay for ongoing maintenance.
0:34:50 > 0:34:53And one way of doing that is by stipulating that any person
0:34:53 > 0:34:55who is not resident in the borough
0:34:55 > 0:34:59at the time of their death will be charged a premium for their burial.
0:34:59 > 0:35:03Those who have moved away only recently won't face the same fee.
0:35:03 > 0:35:06And the council says its guidance is comparable to that
0:35:06 > 0:35:07of other authorities.
0:35:09 > 0:35:10But for Tim Morris,
0:35:10 > 0:35:14chief executive of the Institute of Cemetery and Crematorium Management,
0:35:14 > 0:35:16stories like Amanda's highlight
0:35:16 > 0:35:20not just a discrepancy in burial costs around the UK,
0:35:20 > 0:35:23but more worryingly, an increasing lack of space
0:35:23 > 0:35:25for where they can take place.
0:35:25 > 0:35:28In fact, he believes that over the next 20-30 years
0:35:28 > 0:35:31we may run out of plots altogether.
0:35:31 > 0:35:34The main factor is that cemeteries are not sustainable.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36When a cemetery becomes full,
0:35:36 > 0:35:40a local authority has some difficult decisions to make.
0:35:40 > 0:35:42Does it build a new cemetery?
0:35:42 > 0:35:45Then, it has two sites to maintain on the same income.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48There is a pressure on the budget,
0:35:48 > 0:35:50pressure to increase fees.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52If cemeteries were made sustainable,
0:35:52 > 0:35:55there would be no need to build new cemeteries.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59So, faced with a shrinking amount of cemetery space,
0:35:59 > 0:36:02Tim believes some drastic measures are needed, and he says that means
0:36:02 > 0:36:04recycling burial plots.
0:36:04 > 0:36:08Sustainability can be achieved through the re-use
0:36:08 > 0:36:09of old, abandoned graves,
0:36:09 > 0:36:12as it is available in London through legislation,
0:36:12 > 0:36:16and has just become available in Scotland through legislation.
0:36:16 > 0:36:21So really the Government for England and Wales needs to act...
0:36:22 > 0:36:25..and produce sustainable cemeteries.
0:36:26 > 0:36:30The whole idea of reusing graves is a controversial one,
0:36:30 > 0:36:33but to find out if it really is a way to keep burial costs down,
0:36:33 > 0:36:37I visited one of the only places that's putting it into practice.
0:36:40 > 0:36:41- Hello, Julia.- Hi, Gary.
0:36:41 > 0:36:43Welcome to the City of London Cemetery.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45Well, thank you for sparing the time.
0:36:45 > 0:36:49Gary Burks is the superintendent of the City of London Cemetery.
0:36:51 > 0:36:55There are over 500,000 burial plots here, and simply maintaining
0:36:55 > 0:36:58them costs hundreds of thousands of pounds every year.
0:36:59 > 0:37:03Now, obviously the cost for people who want to have their loved ones
0:37:03 > 0:37:06buried here has changed tremendously since the old days.
0:37:06 > 0:37:08- It has.- And what are the costs now?
0:37:08 > 0:37:10The costs have just...have increased
0:37:10 > 0:37:14because we have to maintain the area and that grave
0:37:14 > 0:37:18for the time of that lease, or sometimes in perpetuity.
0:37:18 > 0:37:22So it has to cover the maintenance of this site.
0:37:22 > 0:37:28- Generally speaking, we aim to break even on a yearly basis.- Yes.
0:37:28 > 0:37:32Gary says it takes 61 staff to keep the grounds here a nice place for
0:37:32 > 0:37:36people to visit, and that's an expensive year-round business.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39Does everybody pay the same who ends up here?
0:37:39 > 0:37:42It depends on what you want, actually.
0:37:42 > 0:37:44- Oh, OK.- If you was to choose a woodland grave,
0:37:44 > 0:37:47where there is no memorial and there's not that much maintenance,
0:37:47 > 0:37:51it costs somewhat significantly less than a memorial...
0:37:51 > 0:37:53Than a grave in a different area,
0:37:53 > 0:37:54so the fee structure is set out
0:37:54 > 0:37:57so that people can choose what they want.
0:37:57 > 0:37:59So your fee structure is based on what people...?
0:37:59 > 0:38:02The quality, if you like, of what they're going to get...
0:38:02 > 0:38:04- Very much so.- ..not on who they are and where they came from?
0:38:04 > 0:38:06- Absolutely not.- No.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09- I mean, we don't have...- I mean, is there a catchment area?
0:38:09 > 0:38:12Because the City's only got a small group of residents -
0:38:12 > 0:38:148,000 residents -
0:38:14 > 0:38:17- all of our fees are set for non-residents.- Yes.
0:38:17 > 0:38:21So anyone can be buried here, irrespective of City connection.
0:38:21 > 0:38:24- Yes.- When I'm asked that question, usually I say the only requirement
0:38:24 > 0:38:27for being buried here is you have to be dead.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32Despite being one of the most populated cemeteries in the country,
0:38:32 > 0:38:34the fees to be buried here are
0:38:34 > 0:38:38broadly the same whether you lived in the area or not before you died.
0:38:38 > 0:38:43And the way they try and keep prices down is by recycling their plots.
0:38:43 > 0:38:46They say they're the only site in the UK
0:38:46 > 0:38:49where any grave over 75 years old can be reused,
0:38:49 > 0:38:52which means, provided there are no objections,
0:38:52 > 0:38:55remains that are found are moved lower down
0:38:55 > 0:38:57to make room for the new burial.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01And though this won't be something everyone wants to consider,
0:39:01 > 0:39:04if a family wants to buy one of these recycled spaces,
0:39:04 > 0:39:09they can do so for a fraction of the cost of an entirely new grave.
0:39:09 > 0:39:12So, Gary, why don't you show me one of these graves
0:39:12 > 0:39:14- that's been reclaimed? - Certainly.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17I mean, that grave there has been reclaimed,
0:39:17 > 0:39:19that grave there has been reclaimed and reused.
0:39:19 > 0:39:22This memorial itself,
0:39:22 > 0:39:25if you tried to purchase it now,
0:39:25 > 0:39:27it would probably be £40-50,000.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30It's a lovely piece of granite, it will last forever.
0:39:30 > 0:39:35Our options were really to clear it away and start again,
0:39:35 > 0:39:39or to make the new family the custodian of that memorial.
0:39:39 > 0:39:40It does two things -
0:39:40 > 0:39:43it allows us to use these areas again
0:39:43 > 0:39:45and it allows families to have
0:39:45 > 0:39:49a magnificent memorial like this for a very small cost.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51Yes. I mean, I imagine the cost element
0:39:51 > 0:39:54- is really one of the important factors.- It is.
0:39:54 > 0:39:55I mean, to purchase...
0:39:55 > 0:39:58to purchase a grave like this costs this family
0:39:58 > 0:40:02somewhere in the region of £7,000.
0:40:02 > 0:40:05Because of the amount of time we had to spend renovating it and cleaning
0:40:05 > 0:40:08it. It gives you a rough idea of the saving that a family would make
0:40:08 > 0:40:11by choosing a reclaimed grave.
0:40:11 > 0:40:12Yes.
0:40:13 > 0:40:18'Paying 7,000 to re-use of plot, as opposed to 50,000 to buy a new one,
0:40:18 > 0:40:20'is obviously a huge saving.'
0:40:20 > 0:40:24And the idea of recycling graves in this way is likely to spread,
0:40:24 > 0:40:27with approval already granted in Scotland.
0:40:28 > 0:40:31Do you envisage a time when, actually, all over the country,
0:40:31 > 0:40:34cemeteries are going to have to do what you do here?
0:40:34 > 0:40:37In order to make burial achievable
0:40:37 > 0:40:39in the longer term, I believe so.
0:40:39 > 0:40:43The Scottish Government has decided to build it into the new legislation
0:40:43 > 0:40:47for Scottish burial - in a country where there is more space.
0:40:47 > 0:40:50So they are seeing and recognising, going forward,
0:40:50 > 0:40:51that it's going to be something.
0:40:51 > 0:40:54And it's available in London,
0:40:54 > 0:40:56but it's not available outside of London -
0:40:56 > 0:40:57at the moment, in this country.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01But in Amanda's case,
0:41:01 > 0:41:04while she understands that space is at an increasing premium and that a
0:41:04 > 0:41:09lot has changed since 1963 when her grandmother bought the burial plot,
0:41:09 > 0:41:11she feels she and her father should have been warned
0:41:11 > 0:41:14about the additional costs long before he died,
0:41:14 > 0:41:19when the information would have been easier to absorb and discuss.
0:41:19 > 0:41:22This overall experience has made me very cross with
0:41:22 > 0:41:25Barking and Dagenham Council
0:41:25 > 0:41:28for making me have these feelings
0:41:28 > 0:41:32at the time when I'm already grieving about my father.
0:41:33 > 0:41:37Amanda thinks her father would have been outraged by the extra costs and
0:41:37 > 0:41:41she plans to take her case to the Local Government Ombudsman
0:41:41 > 0:41:44in the hope that she might get some of her money back.
0:41:44 > 0:41:46She is especially keen to fight her corner because,
0:41:46 > 0:41:50when it comes to the time when her mother comes to be buried in
0:41:50 > 0:41:51the family plot,
0:41:51 > 0:41:54she doesn't think it's right that she'll have to pay the extra fee
0:41:54 > 0:41:56again, then, too.
0:41:56 > 0:42:01I do feel that the non-residents' fee will apply to us again at a later
0:42:01 > 0:42:06date, because obviously we still have a plot left to fill.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09I would be very angry to have to pay the increased fee again.
0:42:17 > 0:42:19If you've got a story you'd like us to investigate,
0:42:19 > 0:42:22get in touch with us via our Facebook page...
0:42:25 > 0:42:26..our website...
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0:42:50 > 0:42:54Well, with so much flak being directed at the big energy companies
0:42:54 > 0:42:56these days, you can't help but admire anyone
0:42:56 > 0:42:58who puts their money where their mouth is
0:42:58 > 0:43:00and sets themselves up as a new player in the market,
0:43:00 > 0:43:04like the people we saw earlier in the programme. I'm sure we're going
0:43:04 > 0:43:07- to be keeping an eye on them to see how they get on, don't you? - You bet we will.
0:43:07 > 0:43:09And hopefully today we've manage to clarify for the
0:43:09 > 0:43:13people concerned, some of the charges that they've written to us about.
0:43:13 > 0:43:16Even when it's a cost that you've got no choice but to pay,
0:43:16 > 0:43:18you want to be sure it's fair.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20That's really what we're looking for - fairness.
0:43:20 > 0:43:23Which, I'm sure you'd agree, at the very least means knowing that it was
0:43:23 > 0:43:25- coming.- And I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Gloria,
0:43:25 > 0:43:28because a bill is bad enough at the best of times,
0:43:28 > 0:43:30but even worse when it's unexpected.
0:43:30 > 0:43:32But I'm afraid that's all we've got for you today.
0:43:32 > 0:43:36Thanks to everyone who's taken the trouble to contact us with a story,
0:43:36 > 0:43:38whether we've been able to investigate it further or not.
0:43:38 > 0:43:41And indeed, thanks as always for watching. So until next time,
0:43:41 > 0:43:44- from all of us, bye-bye. - Bye.- Bye.