0:00:02 > 0:00:03I've had an interesting life -
0:00:03 > 0:00:07coalminer, forklift truck driver,
0:00:07 > 0:00:10bricklayer, factory production line worker,
0:00:10 > 0:00:12fireman...
0:00:12 > 0:00:16I've lived rough on the streets of London and Paris.
0:00:17 > 0:00:21But now I've got a new job.
0:00:21 > 0:00:26As a Queen's Counsel barrister, I know the law inside-out.
0:00:28 > 0:00:33I've prosecuted and defended some of the UK's most serious criminals,
0:00:33 > 0:00:38but the life I've led means I know that the world can be a tough place.
0:00:39 > 0:00:44At some points, we've all felt ripped off, cheated or conned.
0:00:44 > 0:00:48It's frustrating, costly and stressful.
0:00:48 > 0:00:53But I know consumers can fight back and get justice.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55I'm not here to represent anyone,
0:00:55 > 0:00:58but what I want is to empower you
0:00:58 > 0:01:01to use the law to get what you're owed.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07Today, I'll be helping a homeowner in Wales
0:01:07 > 0:01:10deal with a dispute over some specially-made kitchen worktops.
0:01:10 > 0:01:15It's just so, so below standard that I'd be ashamed to fit it.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18But first, I'm in Leicestershire with a mother and daughter
0:01:18 > 0:01:22who are trying to find out what happened to their horse.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24She basically gave her away.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28I'm going to help these people work out how they've been cheated
0:01:28 > 0:01:32and show them how they can use the law to get back what they're owed.
0:01:35 > 0:01:40Over three and half million people regularly ride horses in the UK,
0:01:40 > 0:01:44and Mandy Everley's daughters are two of them.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48My name is Mandy. I have two children, Rosie and Holly.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51Rosie is 23 in a couple of weeks
0:01:51 > 0:01:54and Holly is 20.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58Both of Mandy's daughters loved horse-riding from an early age.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01Come on! Good girl!
0:02:01 > 0:02:06At the moment, we've got one pony, called Penny.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08I've had a lot of fun with them.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12They've been part of my life for a long time.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14What are they doing?
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Come on. Good girl.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22Rosie's favourite pony was called Libby
0:02:22 > 0:02:24and the two were inseparable.
0:02:24 > 0:02:30We bought Libby when I was 14. She was a real character.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33We won quite a few trophies in our local shows
0:02:33 > 0:02:36and genuinely had quite a lot of fun together.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39When Rosie went away to university,
0:02:39 > 0:02:42they decided it would be better for the horse
0:02:42 > 0:02:46if they could find a more active rider who could take her on loan.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49She was still a very active horse
0:02:49 > 0:02:54and I do think that she missed being ridden.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57Horse-loaning is very common.
0:02:57 > 0:03:01An owner finds a new home for their horse, without actually selling it.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Sometimes, horses are loaned out for years.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08Generally no money changes hands, unless there are vets bills to pay.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11Mandy found someone who wanted to take the horse.
0:03:11 > 0:03:17Both parties signed the agreement, which said that the horse would always be Mandy's property
0:03:17 > 0:03:21and would be returned to her whenever she asked for it.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Libby was very happy in her new home,
0:03:25 > 0:03:30but as she got older, it became clear she needed to retire and live as a companion horse,
0:03:30 > 0:03:33where there was no pressure for her to be ridden.
0:03:33 > 0:03:38We'd actually found someone who was looking for a companion horse at the time.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40This was a lady in Telford.
0:03:40 > 0:03:46Another loan agreement was made with the new keeper, Denise from Telford.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49Mandy and Rosie went to visit their horse in her new home
0:03:49 > 0:03:52and were delighted to see she was happy and well looked-after.
0:03:52 > 0:03:55Everything was fine for the next few months,
0:03:55 > 0:03:58until Mandy received a phone call.
0:03:58 > 0:04:04I had a call from Denise saying that she was pregnant
0:04:04 > 0:04:08and she couldn't keep Libby any longer while she was pregnant,
0:04:08 > 0:04:11but that she had found Libby another home
0:04:11 > 0:04:15with a lady called Rachel, from Chester.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19Mandy asked Denise for the contact details of the woman from Chester
0:04:19 > 0:04:22so she could draw up a new loan agreement.
0:04:22 > 0:04:28I tried and tried and tried ringing the mobile number that I was given.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31To start with, there was no answer, it just rang and rang,
0:04:31 > 0:04:35and then after a while it was just discontinued.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43I started to get a little bit worried at this point!
0:04:43 > 0:04:45Mandy was now so worried
0:04:45 > 0:04:48that she went back to ask what had happened to her horse.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52The answer Denise gave her was a shock.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56She didn't think we were that bothered with Libby
0:04:56 > 0:04:59and basically gave her away.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02Both mother and daughter were now frantic.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04Their horse had disappeared.
0:05:04 > 0:05:08They chased every lead and even placed "missing" posters on horse websites,
0:05:08 > 0:05:12desperately hoping that someone might be able to help.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15We didn't know where she was,
0:05:15 > 0:05:18we didn't know, you know, what state she was,
0:05:18 > 0:05:21we didn't know who'd got her,
0:05:21 > 0:05:26we didn't know what she was being used for. We hadn't got a clue.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30For a year, the two women tried everything to find their horse,
0:05:30 > 0:05:33and while searching the National Equine Database
0:05:33 > 0:05:37they received the worse news possible.
0:05:37 > 0:05:42We discovered that she'd been registered as deceased.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50They continued to investigate
0:05:50 > 0:05:55and were shocked to discover that Libby had been slaughtered at an abattoir
0:05:55 > 0:06:00only a few days after the date Denise had told them she'd given the horse away.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03Someone had sold her to a horse dealer
0:06:03 > 0:06:08and the horse dealer had taken her for meat, basically. I think that's what happened.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13It's torn us apart, really.
0:06:13 > 0:06:15Me and Libby spent a lot of time together.
0:06:15 > 0:06:20I grew up, you know, through my teenage years with her.
0:06:20 > 0:06:25There is an enormous amount of guilt, erm, on my shoulders
0:06:25 > 0:06:29because I was the person who actually said,
0:06:29 > 0:06:33"I think it's time to find Libby another home now."
0:06:37 > 0:06:41If Denise had stuck to the agreement
0:06:41 > 0:06:44and she genuinely couldn't keep her any more,
0:06:44 > 0:06:46we would've had her back.
0:06:46 > 0:06:52Mandy and Rosie now want to know why Denise ignored the terms of the loan agreement
0:06:52 > 0:06:55and let the horse leave her care.
0:06:57 > 0:07:03There is absolutely no reason to think that Denise is responsible for the horse being slaughtered,
0:07:03 > 0:07:05but she did sign a contract with Mandy,
0:07:05 > 0:07:09and when she let the horse out of her care, she breached that contract.
0:07:09 > 0:07:14Mandy and Rosie have tried everything to try and find out what happened to their horse.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17They even contacted the police, but they said it was a civil matter.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20Well, they may not want to help but I do,
0:07:20 > 0:07:23and I'll be meeting up with Mandy and her daughter later.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32Situated at the farthest corner of South West Wales,
0:07:32 > 0:07:37and exposed to everything that the Atlantic has to throw at it, is the town of Fishguard.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41Someone who's quite at home in the outdoors is all-round handyman,
0:07:41 > 0:07:45and, when it's not raining, tree surgeon Jim Scott.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50Jim moved into this house with his wife and her four children
0:07:50 > 0:07:53with the idea of turning it into a dream home,
0:07:53 > 0:07:55finished exactly as they wanted.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58We bought this house because it was an unfinished new-build
0:07:58 > 0:08:03and it showed potential for a family home for us.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05Jim is an experienced and skilled craftsman,
0:08:05 > 0:08:08so he wanted to install his own dream kitchen.
0:08:08 > 0:08:12First he chose the units, then the worktops.
0:08:12 > 0:08:14I designed the kitchen myself.
0:08:14 > 0:08:16I looked into a lot of different worktops
0:08:16 > 0:08:20and eventually decided that Welsh slate would be a nice finish.
0:08:20 > 0:08:23It's quite a contemporary look.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27Welsh slate is a natural product with a smooth and waterproof surface,
0:08:27 > 0:08:30usually quarried in the mountains of North Wales.
0:08:30 > 0:08:35Large, unblemished slabs can be expensive and difficult to extract.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38One of the major factors was how quickly we could get it,
0:08:38 > 0:08:43because we had to get the house finished and we had to get moved into the house.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47Jim found a company called Welsh Slate Products.
0:08:47 > 0:08:52The pictures on their website were perfect and matched exactly what he was looking for.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54The owner, Ben Edge,
0:08:54 > 0:08:59promised to deliver within Jim's budget and, more importantly, on time.
0:08:59 > 0:09:02Ben was very enthusiastic
0:09:02 > 0:09:05about the fact that he could probably get it done in two weeks
0:09:05 > 0:09:08and if not, definitely three to five weeks.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11I was really pleased that someone could do it that quickly.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13The order was for four worktops,
0:09:13 > 0:09:16each carefully cut by Welsh Slate Products
0:09:16 > 0:09:18to match Jim's designs.
0:09:18 > 0:09:24Jim transferred £2,700, which included the cost of delivery,
0:09:24 > 0:09:27but the slate failed to arrive.
0:09:27 > 0:09:31Months and months later after initial payment,
0:09:31 > 0:09:34finally, two of the pieces of slate were ready.
0:09:34 > 0:09:38He sent me a photograph of those to show that they were ready.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Jim and his wife drove five hours to North Wales,
0:09:41 > 0:09:46but when they got there Ben Edge told them the slate still wasn't finished.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49They paid to spend two nights in a hotel,
0:09:49 > 0:09:53and even then, they only left with half of their order.
0:09:53 > 0:09:55More and more months went by.
0:09:55 > 0:10:02I decided to give Ben a deadline, which was me and Jill getting married,
0:10:02 > 0:10:04in the hope that it would spur him on.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06He even said on the phone at one point,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09"Let's get all this delivered within a year!"
0:10:09 > 0:10:12More than 12 months since he placed the original order,
0:10:12 > 0:10:17Jim returned to North Wales, spending the night in the back of his van this time.
0:10:17 > 0:10:19He collected the rest of the slate,
0:10:19 > 0:10:21but when he fitted it to his kitchen
0:10:21 > 0:10:27he discovered it had been cut to different thicknesses and not to his specifications.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32He's actually finished them to different thicknesses.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34They don't actually match.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36Ben Edge of Welsh Slate Products
0:10:36 > 0:10:39did offer to give Jim some of his money back,
0:10:39 > 0:10:42but it never materialised.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46Ben actually rang and said, "I'm going to send £200,"
0:10:46 > 0:10:49and that was the last I heard of him.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52We obviously haven't received any money.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55Jim now wants Ben Edge to give him a refund
0:10:55 > 0:10:59and cover all of the extra costs involved in collecting the slate.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04The key word here is bespoke.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08Jim's order wasn't off the shelf, it had to be especially made for him
0:11:08 > 0:11:10and if what he ordered isn't what he got,
0:11:10 > 0:11:13he's got a good case to ask for his money back.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17I'll be seeing him later to work out how much he should ask for.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23Now back to Leicestershire,
0:11:23 > 0:11:28where Mandy Everley is trying to find out what happened to her horse that went missing while on loan.
0:11:28 > 0:11:33Mandy and her daughter have since discovered the horse was slaughtered in an abattoir
0:11:33 > 0:11:37just days after it went missing.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42This really is a sad story. Mandy signed an agreement
0:11:42 > 0:11:45which said her horse could not be given to someone else without her consent.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49Unfortunately, that appears to be exactly what has happened.
0:11:49 > 0:11:54The trouble is, no-one seems to be able to explain how or why.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01I'm not here to take sides,
0:12:01 > 0:12:05but Mandy and Rosie are entitled to know what happened to their horse,
0:12:05 > 0:12:09and I'm hoping that with my help, they can get some answers
0:12:09 > 0:12:12and then put this sad affair behind them.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16- Hello!- Hi, Mandy. Gary Bell. - BOTH: Nice to meet you.- Come in!
0:12:16 > 0:12:21I also want to clear up any confusion that they have about contract law.
0:12:21 > 0:12:27One thing that has confused us a little bit in this has been that,
0:12:27 > 0:12:33when I contacted the police, they did say that the loan agreement counted for nothing
0:12:33 > 0:12:38because it wasn't overseen by a solicitor when it was signed.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42Is that a necessary step that people should take?
0:12:42 > 0:12:47I find it very odd that the police feel they're now experts in contract law.
0:12:47 > 0:12:49No, it's absolute rubbish.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52Apart from real property, all contracts are contracts,
0:12:52 > 0:12:57whether they're written or verbal. Mandy's certainly was.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02This was an agreement between you and Denise, signed by Denise,
0:13:02 > 0:13:05- and it sets out all the terms of the loan.- BOTH: Yes.
0:13:05 > 0:13:10It says, "Under no circumstances are you permitted to lease or sell the horse to any third parties
0:13:10 > 0:13:14- "without consent from the owner." That would be you?- BOTH: Yes.
0:13:14 > 0:13:19Do you know whether or not Denise sold this horse?
0:13:19 > 0:13:20We don't know.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23When was it that Denise called up
0:13:23 > 0:13:26to say that she'd found somebody that could look after Libby,
0:13:26 > 0:13:28called Rachel, in Chester?
0:13:28 > 0:13:30It was early in February.
0:13:30 > 0:13:31But on the 7th of February,
0:13:31 > 0:13:35- you know that Libby was killed on that day.- Yes.
0:13:35 > 0:13:40- Do you know where and how? - We know that the abattoir got her from a dealer,
0:13:40 > 0:13:44but we haven't made a direct connection between the dealer and where he got Libby from.
0:13:44 > 0:13:49- Right.- We've got a little piece of the jigsaw missing.- Yes.
0:13:49 > 0:13:55Until we can find out who the dealer bought Libby from, no...
0:13:55 > 0:13:58The dealer shouldn't have bought the horse
0:13:58 > 0:14:00without checking that the person that bought it from
0:14:00 > 0:14:04was the one who was registered as the owner on the passport,
0:14:04 > 0:14:08and the abattoir shouldn't have taken the horse unless they'd made the same checks.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10Mm. That's true.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14This poor horse was let down three times.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17The dealer didn't check who really owned her,
0:14:17 > 0:14:19the abattoir did not check her passport
0:14:19 > 0:14:23and Denise gave her away, in breach of the loan agreement.
0:14:23 > 0:14:28Looking at the contract that Denise signed for the loan of Libby,
0:14:28 > 0:14:33it's perfectly clear that she's breached the terms of that contract in a number of ways.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36Whether she gave her away or whether she sold her
0:14:36 > 0:14:38doesn't really matter.
0:14:38 > 0:14:40She breached the terms of that contract
0:14:40 > 0:14:45that Libby should've either gone to somebody on loan, with your permission,
0:14:45 > 0:14:48or come back to you so you could look after her.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50Libby was not her pony
0:14:50 > 0:14:55and she didn't have the authority to do that with her.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59So the action is against Denise for breach of contract.
0:14:59 > 0:15:03How much would Libby have been worth, as a 24-year-old horse?
0:15:03 > 0:15:06If I'd have sold her on - £300? Not much it all.
0:15:06 > 0:15:12- And probably 100 for all of the kit. - Yeah, there was tack and kit that went with her.
0:15:12 > 0:15:17So for the breach of contract that resulted in the death of their horse,
0:15:17 > 0:15:21Rosie and Mandy will be claiming £300 for the value of the horse
0:15:21 > 0:15:24and £100 for her bridle, reins and tack.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27That's a total of £400.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33This isn't about money.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36This is about a devastating experience that you've suffered
0:15:36 > 0:15:38as a result of Denise's actions.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41Whatever she thinks about the loan agreement,
0:15:41 > 0:15:44it's signed by her, it's witnessed
0:15:44 > 0:15:46and it shows quite clearly that you're the owner.
0:15:46 > 0:15:51The next thing we need to do is to write a Letter Before Action to Denise.
0:15:53 > 0:15:57A Letter Before Action is the first step you must take when you're making a claim.
0:15:57 > 0:16:03We need Denise to understand that there was a contract between them and it was binding.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06It clearly stated that the horse was not hers to sell or give away.
0:16:06 > 0:16:11She must now pay for the loss because she let the horse go without permission.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16We should also set a time limit of 14 days,
0:16:16 > 0:16:20giving Denise every opportunity to resolve the issue.
0:16:20 > 0:16:23Let's hope that when Denise receives this letter,
0:16:23 > 0:16:26she'll begin to realise the enormity of what she's done
0:16:26 > 0:16:28and she'll have to pay a small amount of money,
0:16:28 > 0:16:33but at least that will show that what she did was very wrong.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36Hopefully, it will stop other people from doing the same in the future.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38Hopefully, that will be the case.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41What do you think now, when you think back to Libby and how she ended up?
0:16:41 > 0:16:46I don't think she deserved what she got. She'd, erm...
0:16:46 > 0:16:49She'd done a lot in her life. She, erm...
0:16:49 > 0:16:52She used to jump professionally before we had her
0:16:52 > 0:16:54and, erm...
0:16:56 > 0:16:59I just... I don't think she deserved it.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07This case isn't really about compensation
0:17:07 > 0:17:12but, sadly, going to court may be the only way Mandy can get Denise to respond
0:17:12 > 0:17:15and help her fill in the final piece of the mystery
0:17:15 > 0:17:19of what happened to her daughter's horse.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26Jim Scott thought that he was ordering some finely-crafted Welsh slate worktops
0:17:26 > 0:17:29for his newly-built kitchen.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32After waiting more than a year for them to be delivered,
0:17:32 > 0:17:34he got fed up and collected them,
0:17:34 > 0:17:40only to discover that they didn't match the order he'd agreed to pay for.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43Jim's worktops are a bespoke product,
0:17:43 > 0:17:45made-to-measure for his kitchen.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48Consumer law around distance selling and bespoke products
0:17:48 > 0:17:51is slightly different than buying things off the shelf,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54but the basic principle is the same - you should get what you pay for.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58As long as both buyer and seller are clear about what is expected,
0:17:58 > 0:18:01that is what should be delivered.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06So far, Jim has had no luck getting any of his money back.
0:18:06 > 0:18:11Hopefully, I can help him work out what he should claim and how to get it.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15- Jim.- Hi.- Gary Bell.
0:18:15 > 0:18:19- Pleased to meet you.- Shall we go and look at that kitchen? - Please come in.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28These two worktop surfaces are completely different thicknesses.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31This piece actually was five mil too long.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34This piece was delivered months before that one.
0:18:34 > 0:18:39This has a pencil-edge finish, whereas this has a bevel edge.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41They just don't match at all.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45- Had you given precise measurements and thickness requirements? - Absolutely.
0:18:45 > 0:18:50I gave exact measurements and details, completely and utterly precise measurements.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54There's a cut in the middle of that piece of slate for the sink.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56That came as it was.
0:18:56 > 0:19:00- Is that satisfactory?- Er, no.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03- Is it supposed to have these big white stripes in it?- No.
0:19:03 > 0:19:08- I notice this edge, as well, is very sharp. Did you do that?- No.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11Then you've got upstands, as well, which were part of the price,
0:19:11 > 0:19:15- they're the pieces at the back. - That's right.- Were they OK?
0:19:15 > 0:19:18They're actually a different height, roughly 100 mil,
0:19:18 > 0:19:21so they didn't match up either.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23It's just so, you know, below standard
0:19:23 > 0:19:27that any kitchen fitter would be ashamed to fit it.
0:19:27 > 0:19:31- They do say that the cobbler's kids are always the worst clod.- Yeah.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34So all in all, are you happy with your four slate surfaces?
0:19:34 > 0:19:36No, not at all, no!
0:19:36 > 0:19:41I don't see any reason why you shouldn't get the kitchen that you paid for
0:19:41 > 0:19:44and as you haven't, get it from somebody else
0:19:44 > 0:19:48who will do it to the right specifications and within the right timeframe
0:19:48 > 0:19:51and get your money back from Mr Edge.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54Well, that would certainly be something, yeah.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57And when you get the new kitchen, you can fit it and send this slate back,
0:19:57 > 0:20:01or you can make him come and collect it, maybe sleep in his van.
0:20:01 > 0:20:03HE CHUCKLES Yeah! Yeah.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06Well, let's see if we can go and get your money back.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09Because Jim's worktops are not what he ordered or paid for,
0:20:09 > 0:20:11he has a good case for a refund.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14I'm going to help him work out what he can ask for
0:20:14 > 0:20:17so we can set it out in a Letter Before Action.
0:20:17 > 0:20:19- Petrol money? - The first time we drove up,
0:20:19 > 0:20:23it cost about £80 in petrol money and we had to stay in a hotel.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27£80. Hotel... How much did you pay for the hotel?
0:20:27 > 0:20:29The hotel was another £150.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31Two nights in a hotel, petrol money.
0:20:31 > 0:20:36We won't worry about you having to eat out and subsistence costs. We'll leave that, shall we?
0:20:36 > 0:20:37That might be a bit remote.
0:20:37 > 0:20:42- And then the second trip? - The second time I had to drive up, I was in the van
0:20:42 > 0:20:45so it cost a bit more, about £100 in diesel.
0:20:45 > 0:20:49- No hotel bill because you slept in the van, which you can't get compensation for.- No.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52- But it's a pain.- Yes.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56I think that Jim can ask for any costs that can he directly attribute to Ben Edge,
0:20:56 > 0:21:01but I always think it's best to add only the larger, basic costs.
0:21:03 > 0:21:08And of course, you've ended up with kitchen work surfaces which are not fit for purpose
0:21:08 > 0:21:11and you'd like your money back for those of £2,700.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14And then, obviously time off work, how many days off work?
0:21:14 > 0:21:17It was three in total, yeah.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19And what would that cost?
0:21:19 > 0:21:23In reality, I would've been earning about £120 a day, so...
0:21:23 > 0:21:25We'll put £360 down.
0:21:25 > 0:21:31- That's reflected in your accounts, we can see that that's what you earn a day?- Yeah.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34£180 for the petrol,
0:21:34 > 0:21:35150 for the hotel,
0:21:35 > 0:21:39a grand total of...
0:21:39 > 0:21:41Well, there's my maths.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47What Jim is actually claiming from Welsh Slate Products is...
0:21:52 > 0:21:56..and a total of £531 for the other expenses he's had to pay
0:21:56 > 0:22:00in order to collect the slate that was supposed to be delivered.
0:22:00 > 0:22:04That's a total of £3,265.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08Jim needs to set all this out in his Letter Before Action
0:22:08 > 0:22:10and send it off to Ben Edge.
0:22:10 > 0:22:16- Let's post it, then. This should be the first step in you getting your money back.- Yes.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20My name is Gary Bell
0:22:20 > 0:22:26and as QC, I spend most of my working life dealing with major court cases.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28But I haven't always been a barrister,
0:22:28 > 0:22:30I've known some tough times,
0:22:30 > 0:22:34and now I want to use my knowledge of the law to help others.
0:22:34 > 0:22:39I want to show you how you can use the courts to recover your money.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48Mandy Everley is trying to recover the value of her daughter's horse, Libby,
0:22:48 > 0:22:50which went missing whilst out on loan.
0:22:50 > 0:22:55The new keeper breached the loan agreement by passing her on without permission
0:22:55 > 0:23:00and, sadly, the horse was later slaughtered in an abattoir.
0:23:00 > 0:23:03Poor old Libby. The loan agreement Mandy signed
0:23:03 > 0:23:06was there to make sure that this sort of thing didn't happen.
0:23:06 > 0:23:10Contract law is a specialist area but, in essence, it's very simple -
0:23:10 > 0:23:13if you make an agreement, you should stick to it.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15Even without a written contract,
0:23:15 > 0:23:19a verbal agreement can still be legally binding.
0:23:25 > 0:23:27This is Anabel Jay.
0:23:27 > 0:23:31She loaned out her horse on the strength of a verbal contract
0:23:31 > 0:23:35and had to use the threat of legal action to get it back.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39Anabel is part of a program
0:23:39 > 0:23:43that maintains the bloodline of a rare variety of Spanish horse.
0:23:43 > 0:23:48When things got busy at home, she decided to take a break from horse breeding
0:23:48 > 0:23:53and loaned out her prize-breeding mare Chimene to a couple she knew.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57It was a temporary loan and all went well at first.
0:23:59 > 0:24:04But when Anabel decided it was time to go back to horse breeding,
0:24:04 > 0:24:07she asked for her horse to be returned.
0:24:07 > 0:24:09I didn't get her back.
0:24:09 > 0:24:13They started not responding or hanging up.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16When I did get hold of his wife,
0:24:16 > 0:24:19she came out with some comment that it was her horse
0:24:19 > 0:24:23and she was keeping her and I couldn't have her back.
0:24:23 > 0:24:27Anabel contacted the police. Initially, they were helpful.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30We went with the horsebox to get my horse back.
0:24:30 > 0:24:33The police, at the last minute, pulled out
0:24:33 > 0:24:37and decided that it wasn't their business, I'd got to deal with it through the courts.
0:24:37 > 0:24:41Anabel now had to prove the horse was hers.
0:24:41 > 0:24:45She asked a solicitor who specialised in horse ownership to help,
0:24:45 > 0:24:47and simply the threat of legal action got results.
0:24:47 > 0:24:52They hadn't reckoned I would seriously go to a lawyer.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56As it was, for some reason, they suddenly agreed.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59Their lawyer, I think, had made it quite clear to them
0:24:59 > 0:25:03that the horse was not for sale, they'd got to give it back.
0:25:03 > 0:25:05Chimene came home
0:25:05 > 0:25:07and last year gave birth to a young colt,
0:25:07 > 0:25:10who can carry on the bloodline.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13This is Valiente!
0:25:22 > 0:25:26Anabel got her horse back because she was able to show that she still owned it.
0:25:26 > 0:25:31A written loan agreement would've set this out from the start and made things more clear.
0:25:31 > 0:25:32But even if you sign an agreement,
0:25:32 > 0:25:37it's important to make sure that the person you sign it with is who they say they are.
0:25:42 > 0:25:47- This is Emma Hitchcox. - I absolutely love horses. I've done it since I was,
0:25:47 > 0:25:51well, as long as I can remember, I've loved animals and horses.
0:25:51 > 0:25:53Emma has owned lots of horses
0:25:53 > 0:25:56and two of her favourites are Lady and Gwendolyn.
0:25:56 > 0:26:01In 2008, Emma needed to find a temporary home for both horses.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04She was contacted by a woman who said she needed some companion horses
0:26:04 > 0:26:06for her own pony.
0:26:06 > 0:26:10When the lady first came to see Gwendolyn and Lady, she was absolutely lovely.
0:26:10 > 0:26:13She couldn't have been kinder.
0:26:17 > 0:26:19But Emma had no idea
0:26:19 > 0:26:23that the woman eyeing her horses had other plans.
0:26:29 > 0:26:34Emma was so convinced by her that she signed a loan agreement on the spot
0:26:34 > 0:26:37and allowed her to take her horses away.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40For two weeks, she received texts and picture messages from the woman
0:26:40 > 0:26:44showing her horses happy in their new home.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47Emma decided to pay them a visit.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51When we got to the address,
0:26:51 > 0:26:55the lady answered and there didn't appear to be any horses in the field.
0:26:55 > 0:26:59I asked her where the horses were and she said she'd never heard of the lady,
0:26:59 > 0:27:04there'd never been any horses at this address and she'd lived here her whole life.
0:27:04 > 0:27:05Emma was frantic
0:27:05 > 0:27:08and started to search for answers.
0:27:08 > 0:27:12I was filled with absolute dread at the time.
0:27:12 > 0:27:15I felt sick to my stomach.
0:27:15 > 0:27:18When I typed her mobile number into Google,
0:27:18 > 0:27:23I was shocked to find lots of adverts on horse-for-sale websites,
0:27:23 > 0:27:26with pony and horses listed for sale,
0:27:26 > 0:27:29and I then panicked.
0:27:29 > 0:27:33Emma now realised that she'd been conned.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35The name on the loan agreement was a fake.
0:27:35 > 0:27:38She had no idea where her horses were
0:27:38 > 0:27:42and she started to fear the worst.
0:27:44 > 0:27:48My mother called round all the abattoirs in the UK
0:27:48 > 0:27:52and, after much persuasion...
0:27:53 > 0:27:57..one of the abattoirs said, "We believe your horse came through."
0:27:58 > 0:28:03The abattoir had slaughtered both Lady and Gwendolyn.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09I cried myself to sleep for months and months.
0:28:09 > 0:28:14I was absolutely distraught. I didn't know what to do with myself.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18I couldn't believe anyone could take something that someone loved so dearly,
0:28:18 > 0:28:22take that animal and send it to a slaughterhouse.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26Emma now realised that this wasn't the first time
0:28:26 > 0:28:30the woman who signed the agreement had used this fake name.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35We've discovered that she's done it to numerous people,
0:28:35 > 0:28:38before and after us.
0:28:40 > 0:28:42I never got over it. And to this day now,
0:28:42 > 0:28:46I still haven't got over what happened to my girls.
0:28:51 > 0:28:55There are clearly some people who take horses on a regular basis
0:28:55 > 0:28:59and are then making money by selling them to an abattoir.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04There is absolutely no suggestion that the case of Mandy's horse
0:29:04 > 0:29:09is anything other than a one-off, tragic occurrence,
0:29:09 > 0:29:11but as these other cases show,
0:29:11 > 0:29:13it's important not only to have a written agreement
0:29:13 > 0:29:17but to check out thoroughly the person that is taking your horse.
0:29:17 > 0:29:20A contract is only as good as the person who signs it.
0:29:20 > 0:29:26I'll be visiting Mandy later to see if she's had a reply to her Letter Before Action.
0:29:28 > 0:29:32Jim Scott paid for natural slate worktops from North Wales
0:29:32 > 0:29:37but after a year of waiting for them to be delivered, he collected them himself.
0:29:38 > 0:29:42He then discovered that not only was the slate not cut to his specifications,
0:29:42 > 0:29:45it wasn't at the high quality he'd paid for.
0:29:45 > 0:29:49Jim has now written to the company asking for a refund
0:29:49 > 0:29:52and he's waiting for a reply.
0:29:52 > 0:29:56Jim ordered a bespoke product made from natural materials.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58If the case goes all the way to court,
0:29:58 > 0:30:02the supplier may well argue that there are going to be blemishes and imperfections,
0:30:02 > 0:30:04it's natural stone!
0:30:04 > 0:30:09I want to be absolutely certain that Jim's argument is watertight.
0:30:10 > 0:30:13I've sent photos of his slate to be looked at
0:30:13 > 0:30:17by cut-stone expert Barry Hunt.
0:30:23 > 0:30:25Here is the photograph of the kitchen sink.
0:30:25 > 0:30:27There are lots of problems with this
0:30:27 > 0:30:31where they've cut out a section of the stone really...
0:30:31 > 0:30:34..to fit the sink into.
0:30:34 > 0:30:41What we've got in the top corner here is a very incorrect circular cut,
0:30:41 > 0:30:44which just doesn't match the sink at all.
0:30:44 > 0:30:48That's one of the worst cuts I've seen in quite a while.
0:30:49 > 0:30:53The next photograph I'm looking at is actually of...
0:30:53 > 0:30:58..the sides of the two of the panels that we received by Jim
0:30:58 > 0:31:02and on the left side, we have one that's three or four millimetres thicker
0:31:02 > 0:31:05than the one on the right-hand side.
0:31:06 > 0:31:10This third photograph is of two pieces of stone,
0:31:10 > 0:31:13which apparently arrived separately.
0:31:13 > 0:31:18The fact is, both edges are quite different and it shows up very dramatically.
0:31:18 > 0:31:23It's something very basic that just shouldn't be allowed with any natural stone product.
0:31:25 > 0:31:28It certainly looked like...
0:31:28 > 0:31:33..there were three, four, five major things not right.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35It's as simple as that.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38It looks like Jim has a strong case.
0:31:38 > 0:31:43And he's not alone in having problems with Ben Edge and Welsh Slate Products.
0:31:46 > 0:31:49Steven Cooper from Sandbach in Cheshire
0:31:49 > 0:31:55wanted to landscape his garden with a lawn and a large pond, surrounded by walls and paving.
0:31:55 > 0:31:58The search for stone led Steven to Ben Edge
0:31:58 > 0:32:02and his company Welsh Slate Products.
0:32:02 > 0:32:06He had quite a good internet site. He seemed to have all the pictures.
0:32:06 > 0:32:12He showed us some samples he'd got of the slate walling and paving.
0:32:12 > 0:32:14He seemed very keen to do business
0:32:14 > 0:32:17so we were quite happy to go ahead with that.
0:32:17 > 0:32:22Steven ordered 37 square metres of slate paving and walling
0:32:22 > 0:32:25and paid upfront for the materials and transport.
0:32:25 > 0:32:29But months passed before any slate arrived...
0:32:31 > 0:32:36..and when it did, it was neither the amount nor the quality that had been paid for.
0:32:36 > 0:32:39We paid £2,035,
0:32:39 > 0:32:42plus a little bit extra for the delivery.
0:32:42 > 0:32:44We ordered 37 square metres
0:32:44 > 0:32:47and he's delivered 14 of those.
0:32:47 > 0:32:51Just over half the slate Steven paid for was delivered
0:32:51 > 0:32:55and he made a court claim against Ben Edge and won his case.
0:32:55 > 0:33:00In the meantime, he's finished his project with stone from another supplier.
0:33:00 > 0:33:05Eventually, once we'd saved up some money again, we went to another slate supplier.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07We went with the same specification,
0:33:07 > 0:33:11and everything they supplied was just better quality, it was delivered on time.
0:33:11 > 0:33:14It was just a better experience all round.
0:33:15 > 0:33:20For whatever reason, Ben Edge seems to have had difficulty delivering on time, if at all.
0:33:20 > 0:33:24He has, however, replied to Jim's Letter Before Action
0:33:24 > 0:33:27saying if Jim returns the slate, he'll return the money.
0:33:27 > 0:33:32But Jim made it clear that the money must be returned first,
0:33:32 > 0:33:34which, so far, it hasn't.
0:33:37 > 0:33:40The 14-day-deadline is up and Ben Edge hasn't paid.
0:33:40 > 0:33:45Jim really has no other choice but to take him to court.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49Right, Jim, he's had his two weeks. Has he paid up?
0:33:49 > 0:33:51Er, no, he hasn't.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53And you said to him, "14 days,
0:33:53 > 0:33:56- "and if you don't pay the money, I'll take you to court."- Yes.
0:33:56 > 0:33:59So now the only option you've got is to take him to court.
0:33:59 > 0:34:05As with all court forms, it's a good idea to keep things as simple as possible.
0:34:06 > 0:34:09The claimant is you, Jim Scott.
0:34:09 > 0:34:13- Is it Jim or James?- Er, James. - James Scott.
0:34:13 > 0:34:18Then it's the defendant, Ben Edge, in person because he's not a limited company.
0:34:18 > 0:34:20Next are the brief details of the claim.
0:34:20 > 0:34:25Here is where Jim can explain what problems there are with the goods that have been supplied.
0:34:25 > 0:34:30We've got the edging, the upstands being different heights,
0:34:30 > 0:34:33we've got the poor finish on the corners...
0:34:33 > 0:34:36- The white stripes.- The white stripes running throughout them...
0:34:36 > 0:34:39It's like the Generation Game, isn't it? Cuddly toy...
0:34:39 > 0:34:42Once we'd managed to remember all the problems,
0:34:42 > 0:34:45Jim also needs to show how he's worked out what he's owed,
0:34:45 > 0:34:51proving that he spent money on fuel, accommodation and extra materials.
0:34:51 > 0:34:57And you put your full name in here, and signed by you. Just sign that.
0:34:57 > 0:34:59- Are you happy to do this, Jim? - Absolutely.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02You appreciate the cost involved in taking somebody to court?
0:35:02 > 0:35:05I do, but if we can get some compensation
0:35:05 > 0:35:08from such a nightmare, financially,
0:35:08 > 0:35:12and all the stress he's caused, then it'll be a good thing.
0:35:12 > 0:35:15Right, just sign there.
0:35:15 > 0:35:17Because Ben failed to pay up,
0:35:17 > 0:35:21Jim's done what he said he would and taken him to court.
0:35:21 > 0:35:26If he's supplied Jim with the slate he'd ordered in the first place, Ben could've avoided all this.
0:35:26 > 0:35:31Now he can explain himself to the judge.
0:35:37 > 0:35:39Back now to the case of Mandy,
0:35:39 > 0:35:44who is trying to recover the value of her daughter's horse that went missing while on loan.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47Unfortunately, the woman who was looking after the horse, Denise,
0:35:47 > 0:35:51broke the contract and gave the horse away.
0:35:51 > 0:35:54Mandy sent a Letter Before Action and Denise hasn't replied.
0:35:54 > 0:35:59The only option she has now is to take her to court.
0:36:00 > 0:36:03We haven't heard back from Denise.
0:36:03 > 0:36:07- No.- So the only option available now is to take her to court.
0:36:07 > 0:36:10- Yes.- Are you prepared to do that? - Yes, I am.
0:36:10 > 0:36:13I want some form of redress for what happened to Libby.
0:36:13 > 0:36:17I do feel that wrongdoing has been done here,
0:36:17 > 0:36:22erm, to Libby and my daughter and myself.
0:36:22 > 0:36:25I do want to find out the truth
0:36:25 > 0:36:30and I want someone to have to pay for what's happened to Libby, really.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33What we have to do is set out our argument in the claim form.
0:36:33 > 0:36:36- Right.- It's a small claim.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39We need to start Mandy's claim by filling in a form.
0:36:39 > 0:36:44You can find them online at your local court or a Citizens Advice Bureau.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47What we need to do in the Brief Details of Claim
0:36:47 > 0:36:50is to let the judge see immediately what the problem is.
0:36:50 > 0:36:54Mandy must say that she loaned her horse to Denise with a written agreement
0:36:54 > 0:36:58and that Denise gave the horse away without first asking for permission.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00The horse was then slaughtered in an abattoir.
0:37:00 > 0:37:04The value of the horse will be estimated at £300
0:37:04 > 0:37:07and £100 for bridle, saddle and reins.
0:37:07 > 0:37:09There's a court fee of £50 which can be added.
0:37:09 > 0:37:14The total claim is therefore £450.
0:37:14 > 0:37:18This is a very unusual type of case because it's not about money,
0:37:18 > 0:37:22- it's not about making people pay for what they've taken or destroyed. - Yes.
0:37:22 > 0:37:28It's about trying to get Denise to face up to the enormity of what she's done.
0:37:28 > 0:37:31- Well, here's the letter for the court.- Thank you.
0:37:31 > 0:37:34So in the postbox and that'll be that.
0:37:35 > 0:37:41I have no idea how it is that Libby moved from the field that she was living in with Denise,
0:37:41 > 0:37:42only Denise knows that,
0:37:42 > 0:37:46but, hopefully, in court she can explain herself
0:37:46 > 0:37:50and the court can make her pay for what she's done.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57In Pembrokeshire, Jim Scott has been waiting to hear
0:37:57 > 0:38:01if Ben Edge of Welsh Slate Products has filed a defence.
0:38:01 > 0:38:05Jim is claiming a refund for the cost of his slate worktops
0:38:05 > 0:38:08and the expenses he incurred in collecting them.
0:38:08 > 0:38:12In total, his claim is £3,265.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15Jim's heard from the court.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18I rang the, erm, the money claim online people
0:38:18 > 0:38:21to find out what the status of the claim was
0:38:21 > 0:38:24and they informed me that I'd won be default.
0:38:24 > 0:38:28It seems Ben Edge failed to deliver a defence to the court,
0:38:28 > 0:38:31and in doing so, he effectively admitted the claim.
0:38:31 > 0:38:35Now he has to pay Jim in full and cover his court fees
0:38:35 > 0:38:40and if he doesn't, Jim can pass the claim on for enforcement.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43Because Mr Edge didn't come up with the money,
0:38:43 > 0:38:46any costs that I now incur by pursuing him
0:38:46 > 0:38:49obviously get added onto his debt,
0:38:49 > 0:38:52so I'm not going to lose any more money.
0:38:52 > 0:38:55I remember even saying to him, "I'm going to go with you
0:38:55 > 0:38:59"because you sound like a nice bloke and someone I can trust."
0:38:59 > 0:39:04I just like, you know, rue the day I ever said that to him.
0:39:04 > 0:39:07It's been really satisfying to actually stand up to Ben.
0:39:07 > 0:39:10It's been an absolute ordeal.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14We wrote to Ben Edge and he was apologetic about both Steve and Jim
0:39:14 > 0:39:17but did point out that he had many happy customers.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20He was starting up a new business as a sole trader
0:39:20 > 0:39:25and a large commercial customer failed to pay an invoice, which created the problems.
0:39:25 > 0:39:29He now intends to pay all his outstanding bills.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34There have been developments in the case of Libby,
0:39:34 > 0:39:36the horse that went missing while on loan.
0:39:36 > 0:39:41Her owner, Mandy Everley, is trying to recover the value of the horse from Denise,
0:39:41 > 0:39:44who she says broke their loan agreement
0:39:44 > 0:39:46by giving the horse away.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53Mandy's been in touch. Denise has filed the defence.
0:39:53 > 0:39:56In it, she accepts that she signed a loan agreement,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59but she denies that she gave the horse away without permission.
0:39:59 > 0:40:02She also denies having the horse put to sleep.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06The case will now go to trial.
0:40:08 > 0:40:12I'm going to meet them beforehand to give them some last-minute words of advice.
0:40:12 > 0:40:17- Right, well, the day's come and you're due in court.- Yes.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21- How do you feel about that? - We've waited a long time for this now
0:40:21 > 0:40:25and we just want to get it over and done with and, hopefully, get the right result.
0:40:25 > 0:40:30- You've submitted all your evidence. - I have.- You've done everything you were supposed to do.- Yes.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33- And you've not received anything from the other side.- No, I haven't.
0:40:33 > 0:40:35They may find they're in some difficulty
0:40:35 > 0:40:38if they've not served their evidence in time.
0:40:38 > 0:40:42Mandy sent all the paperwork that she'll rely on in the hearing
0:40:42 > 0:40:44to both Denise and the court,
0:40:44 > 0:40:49but Denise hasn't sent Mandy or the court anything to support her defence,
0:40:49 > 0:40:53meaning she can't now produce something new in the hearing.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56They're claiming £300 for the value of the horse
0:40:56 > 0:40:59and £100 for her bridle, reins and tack.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01That's a total of £400.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04Both Rosie and Mandy have waited a long time
0:41:04 > 0:41:07for the chance to ask Denise what happened to their horse.
0:41:07 > 0:41:11This is their case so I'm not going into court with them,
0:41:11 > 0:41:16but after the hearing, I meet up to find out how it went.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19Right, Mandy, what happened? How did you get on?
0:41:19 > 0:41:22We won. We're really, really pleased.
0:41:22 > 0:41:24It's took a long time, but we're really pleased.
0:41:24 > 0:41:26- You are pleased about the outcome. - Yes.
0:41:26 > 0:41:32The judge awarded damages totalling £485.
0:41:41 > 0:41:45The judge said that it was clear that, erm,
0:41:45 > 0:41:50Denise had given the pony away when she wasn't hers to give away.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53He didn't attribute malice to her particularly,
0:41:53 > 0:41:57- he said that she'd been duped or conned...- I see.
0:41:57 > 0:42:01..but that she'd breached the agreement and given the pony away
0:42:01 > 0:42:03when she wasn't hers to give.
0:42:03 > 0:42:08We wrote to Denise after the case but she declined to make any comment.
0:42:08 > 0:42:10- Are you glad that you pursued it? - Yes, we are now.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13We're just really pleased with the outcome.
0:42:13 > 0:42:18We can draw a line under it now and we feel we've done a little bit of justice for Libby.
0:42:20 > 0:42:23Getting justice is what this is about.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26For Mandy and Rosie, I don't think money was ever the issue,
0:42:26 > 0:42:30but by going to court and having their case heard in front of a judge,
0:42:30 > 0:42:33they feel they've got justice for their horse.
0:42:33 > 0:42:38And Jim Scott feels he's got justice by standing up and making his claim.
0:42:38 > 0:42:43They both won their cases and now they can move on.
0:42:43 > 0:42:47It isn't easy going to court and there's no guarantee of success,
0:42:47 > 0:42:51but the courts are there for us all, to give everyone the chance of justice,
0:42:51 > 0:42:54just like Rosie, Mandy and Jim.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd