0:00:02 > 0:00:07This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.
0:00:07 > 0:00:08There are 8,000 convicted criminals
0:00:08 > 0:00:12who, despite having committed serious crimes, are currently living free among us.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15They have been let out in the hope they won't return to crime.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18- Do we always have kidnap cases, Pippa?- The hostage-taking?
0:00:18 > 0:00:20- Yeah, with a gun and stuff.- Yeah.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24- Oh, there is one coming our way, is there?- Lown, Lown.
0:00:24 > 0:00:29Working behind the scenes are the men and women who place themselves
0:00:29 > 0:00:33between the criminals and the public, for OUR protection.
0:00:33 > 0:00:37My world consists of murderers and rapists and armed robbers.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41- Why do you think it's on that licence?- To protect the public.
0:00:41 > 0:00:45I don't think I should be judged like every other predator on the street.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48I'm born of angels. Armageddon, you see.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50I-I came from the stars.
0:00:50 > 0:00:54It is up to probation officers to help reform these criminals,
0:00:54 > 0:00:59all the time assessing if they are still safe to be out.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03I think he's a bona fide networked-up paedophile, who will resume that.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08We work with very extremes of human behaviour,
0:01:08 > 0:01:10the most dangerous people in society.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13It's a high-pressure role, which takes a toll.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16Well, they could pick him up from here,
0:01:16 > 0:01:18the police could pick him up from here.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21If they decide the offenders pose a threat to the public,
0:01:21 > 0:01:24they have the power to put them back behind bars.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28I don't want to go back to prison, innit? I-I want to change my life.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30It's a game of cat and mouse, innit?
0:01:30 > 0:01:34They're always trying to catch you, you're always trying to get away.
0:01:42 > 0:01:47Today, a convicted kidnapper is being released from Rochester Prison.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53David Lown, a 20-year-old with a history of violence,
0:01:53 > 0:01:58is being let out on licence after serving half of his sentence.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01He will return to Brighton
0:02:01 > 0:02:06just 18 months after committing a terrifying crime in the town.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08He has been ordered to go straight to
0:02:08 > 0:02:11the Surrey And Sussex Probation Service
0:02:11 > 0:02:14and report to the officer who will monitor him.
0:02:14 > 0:02:15OK, whereabouts are you?
0:02:18 > 0:02:20Come straight to this office then, yeah?
0:02:20 > 0:02:22OK, bye-bye.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31This is David Lown.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34His offence is kidnap,
0:02:34 > 0:02:39erm, and having an offensive weapon in public
0:02:39 > 0:02:42and GBH, erm, Section 20.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52September 2010.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56David Lown and his co-defendant had been drinking heavily
0:02:56 > 0:02:59when they decided to steal more alcohol.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03They lured a young man to give them a lift
0:03:03 > 0:03:06but instead, kidnapped him with a knife to his throat.
0:03:06 > 0:03:11During a two-and-a-half hour ordeal, the victim was stabbed and punched,
0:03:11 > 0:03:14while forced to drive around town.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16Finally, he was dragged from the car
0:03:16 > 0:03:19and brutally beaten by Lown and his accomplice.
0:03:23 > 0:03:24He's not in...
0:03:24 > 0:03:28Have we discovered what pub Mr Lown is residing in at the moment?
0:03:28 > 0:03:31- I think he's phoned Liz.- Yes.
0:03:31 > 0:03:36- He wasn't released until about half ten, he's coming from Rochester.- OK.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40- Probably can't get here by two. - At least he's been in touch.
0:03:40 > 0:03:44The convicted kidnapper's release comes with strict conditions.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47He must stay at a hostel and keep to a curfew.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50Critically, because his crimes in the past
0:03:50 > 0:03:53have followed heavy drinking sessions,
0:03:53 > 0:03:58he must not exceed a daily alcohol limit set by the Probation Service.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02It's Liz Carter's job to ensure he sticks to his conditions.
0:04:02 > 0:04:06If he doesn't, he'll lose his new-found freedom.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11This is pretty much exactly what I have to do in prison.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14- Mm-hm.- Pretty much everything's exactly the same.
0:04:17 > 0:04:18If you look at this licence,
0:04:18 > 0:04:23this is an extension of you being in prison, you're still under sentence.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27- Hmm.- But you've served half of your time in prison
0:04:27 > 0:04:31and then you're going to serve half your time in the community,
0:04:31 > 0:04:34but still subject to these restrictions.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37So you're giving me chances to fail?
0:04:37 > 0:04:39I would see that as...
0:04:39 > 0:04:41Rather than giving me chances to prove myself?
0:04:41 > 0:04:44I would see it more as a supportive measure.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47We don't want you to mess this licence up any more than you do.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50I know this is the way that you see it, yeah,
0:04:50 > 0:04:51but it's not like that.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54David, listen, while you're in the hostel, you need to comply
0:04:54 > 0:04:57with these restrictions,
0:04:57 > 0:05:02- and the drink-driving limit stands. - Yeah.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04Yeah? OK.
0:05:04 > 0:05:05What I want you to do now
0:05:05 > 0:05:09is make your way along to the approved premises.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12- Do you know where that is?- Hmm.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14Don't get run over, will you?
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Everybody that comes out of prison says that they nearly get run over.
0:05:17 > 0:05:19Yeah, I nearly got run over earlier.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22Mind the road.
0:05:22 > 0:05:24OK. I'll give them a call now,
0:05:24 > 0:05:28- tell them you'll be about 20 minutes, all right?- Yeah.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32Confident? Super-confident?
0:05:32 > 0:05:35- Oh... Yeah. No, I think he's all right.- All right.
0:05:35 > 0:05:39He's just a stroppy teenager. But I think, erm...
0:05:39 > 0:05:41Had a drink today?
0:05:41 > 0:05:44I couldn't smell any... I don't think so, no.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47I think he'll struggle to not have a drink.
0:05:47 > 0:05:52- I don't think he could go into a pub and have one drink. - No. He won't last the weekend.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55I don't think we'll worry too much about that.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57I think he'll really struggle.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01I question whether he'll even be able to not have a drink tonight, to be honest.
0:06:16 > 0:06:18It's a nice beach, this.
0:06:19 > 0:06:21Spot I can relate to, you know?
0:06:21 > 0:06:23It's a bit fucked up, innit?
0:06:25 > 0:06:27I suppose I'm a bit fucked up as well.
0:06:29 > 0:06:35No, I did what I did and...you know,
0:06:35 > 0:06:38I've got to make up for it all, innit?
0:06:39 > 0:06:42INTERVIEWER: So you know about probation?
0:06:42 > 0:06:44Yeah, yeah.
0:06:45 > 0:06:46What's that like?
0:06:46 > 0:06:51They're always trying to set you up to fail, innit? They want you back inside.
0:06:51 > 0:06:53They want you to do your whole sentence inside.
0:06:53 > 0:06:58That's why they give you such strict conditions. That's what they do.
0:06:58 > 0:07:02People think that once you're out of prison, you've finished your sentence.
0:07:02 > 0:07:03It's not like that.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Once you're out of prison it's harder,
0:07:05 > 0:07:08because you've got to stay out for the rest of it,
0:07:08 > 0:07:11and they give you stupid conditions that they know you're going to fail,
0:07:11 > 0:07:14they expect you to fail. That's what they want.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17You know? Some people prove them wrong.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23David Lown is now one of the 70 serious offenders
0:07:23 > 0:07:28in the community, supervised by the Brighton Public Protection Team.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32The team monitors the criminals
0:07:32 > 0:07:35considered to pose the highest risk to the public.
0:07:38 > 0:07:42Linda Kelly is about to see a predatory rapist,
0:07:42 > 0:07:45at liberty after leaving prison nine months ago.
0:07:45 > 0:07:49His identity is obscured to protect his victim.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52I just need to get the right alarm for the right room.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55Not that I think we'll need it but, um, it's protocol, so...
0:07:55 > 0:07:56< Linda?
0:07:56 > 0:07:59- Hello?- He's here.- Thank you.
0:07:59 > 0:08:05A condition of his release is to disclose to her any developing relationships.
0:08:05 > 0:08:09Linda will want any new girlfriend to be warned of his past crime.
0:08:09 > 0:08:13She has received information that he's been seen out with a woman.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17So, in a bit more of a relationship with ... ?
0:08:17 > 0:08:18Hmm...
0:08:19 > 0:08:22Yeah. I don't know.
0:08:22 > 0:08:25- Here's the thing. - I'm not with her, though.- OK.
0:08:25 > 0:08:27So that's just...you know?
0:08:27 > 0:08:31I would suggest that if you're walking down the road
0:08:31 > 0:08:36at half past ten at night-ish, with your arms around somebody,
0:08:36 > 0:08:39that's sort of a bit more of a relationship than,
0:08:39 > 0:08:41"I'm just taking her out."
0:08:41 > 0:08:44And I can see that you're... by your body language
0:08:44 > 0:08:47and by your lack of eye contact, which is usually very good,
0:08:47 > 0:08:51that you're listening to me, but you're closing off.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53- No, I just know where it's going. - OK.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56So you tell me, what do you think needs to happen
0:08:56 > 0:08:59in terms of your relationship at the minute?
0:08:59 > 0:09:01What do you think she needs to know about you?
0:09:01 > 0:09:05- I don't... Not a lot, really, I don't think, at the minute.- OK.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07Because I made it blatantly clear...
0:09:07 > 0:09:09Not blatantly clear, but I said to her, you know,
0:09:09 > 0:09:13"I'm not looking to get into any relationship of any sort."
0:09:13 > 0:09:16- What, long-term relationship? - No, any relationship at all.- OK.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19So are you in a sexual relationship with her at the moment?
0:09:19 > 0:09:23- We had a cuddle and that on the bed. But nothing...- OK, OK.- No.
0:09:23 > 0:09:28- Well, that's not a sexual relationship, is it?- No. - It's an intimate relationship.- Quite.
0:09:28 > 0:09:29OK, all right.
0:09:29 > 0:09:33It worries me that he's having a relationship and he said,
0:09:33 > 0:09:36"We've cuddled on the bed."
0:09:37 > 0:09:40I suspect they've had sex.
0:09:40 > 0:09:45And what concerns me is that if they go out drinking,
0:09:45 > 0:09:49that sexual encounter becomes more controlling
0:09:49 > 0:09:52than it does a consensual act,
0:09:52 > 0:09:56and so the partner, the recipient of the sex, if you like,
0:09:56 > 0:10:01needs to be aware that it can trip over.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05He committed a violent rape,
0:10:05 > 0:10:08which had significant impact on his victim.
0:10:09 > 0:10:13Probation officers can enforce conditions of release.
0:10:13 > 0:10:17They can limit who offenders see and where they go.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20But they can't follow them 24 hours a day.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25There are some criminals in Brighton
0:10:25 > 0:10:28who are particularly troubling to the Public Protection Team.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32- ..Focuses solely on the genitalia. - It would be a five.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38- And that's a prohibited image. - Well, that's not... That's the prohibited one.
0:10:38 > 0:10:40Yeah, that is prohibited as well, the animal one.
0:10:40 > 0:10:44- No, this is... No, that's extreme. - On here, it's not.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47"The performance by a child of an act of..."
0:10:47 > 0:10:52Yeah, it's not by a child. Look, it's an adult...with a dog.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55And that's extreme.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59To keep the public safe, they have to probe, on our behalf,
0:10:59 > 0:11:02the darkest secrets of society.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06One of the things that people perhaps don't appreciate
0:11:06 > 0:11:08about being a probation officer,
0:11:08 > 0:11:10particularly in a public protection team,
0:11:10 > 0:11:13is you're dealing with this every single day.
0:11:13 > 0:11:18Someone is talking to you about committing, or you're reading about
0:11:18 > 0:11:23some of the most depraved, horrific things that you could ever imagine.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26There's things I've seen in this job and read in this job,
0:11:26 > 0:11:29you couldn't... You just couldn't imagine that anyone could do it.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33You know, it's just never come into my thought reckoning.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35- Oh...- Oh, yeah.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37No, that's sick.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41And I now accept that I struggle quite hard
0:11:41 > 0:11:44with some of the child abusers that we have.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47I will need to have a chat with some colleagues
0:11:47 > 0:11:50and some friends and, actually, that's quite a good way, um,
0:11:50 > 0:11:55to leave that behind, before going home to my children.
0:11:55 > 0:11:5830 paedophiles are currently being supervised in the community
0:11:58 > 0:11:59by the team.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04One particular offender is a real cause for concern.
0:12:04 > 0:12:10I'm making sure I don't sort of get too close to early teens...
0:12:12 > 0:12:14..especially the opposite sex.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21Oh, there's a family over there with young children.
0:12:21 > 0:12:25Obviously, I wouldn't entertain going over there,
0:12:25 > 0:12:27I would stay over this side.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32It's always about what other people might be thinking.
0:12:34 > 0:12:38It's the worst thing since sliced bread was invented.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41It's one of those things that's always in the media
0:12:41 > 0:12:44and people are always aware of it.
0:12:46 > 0:12:47We're worse than witches.
0:12:47 > 0:12:49HE LAUGHS
0:12:52 > 0:12:55There's a few areas of offending that do cross all boundaries.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57Drink-driving is one of them.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00Sex offending - anyone, any class, any race, any age.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03The ones that shock you are the very, very normal...
0:13:03 > 0:13:07VERY, VERY normal-looking people who have committed sexual offences.
0:13:07 > 0:13:13I do come here because I know there aren't going to be any kids here,
0:13:13 > 0:13:15especially the younger teenagers.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18They don't want to know this sort of thing.
0:13:18 > 0:13:19It's industry, it's docks.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22It's difficult not to be sat in a public place,
0:13:22 > 0:13:26watching the world go by, going, "Paedophile, paedophile, paedophile,"
0:13:26 > 0:13:29because actually, anybody can be a paedophile.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34This offender has been out of prison for two months.
0:13:34 > 0:13:36He was sentenced to ten years
0:13:36 > 0:13:38and released on licence after serving six.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41He was convicted of 11 counts of rape
0:13:41 > 0:13:43of a female under the age of 16.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48He's got extremely strong licence conditions,
0:13:48 > 0:13:51which is, he is not allowed to go anywhere where children go,
0:13:51 > 0:13:54he's not allowed to loiter or stand still
0:13:54 > 0:13:57when passing where children are,
0:13:57 > 0:13:59because any accusation that comes his way,
0:13:59 > 0:14:02that he's hanging around somewhere,
0:14:02 > 0:14:05or spending too long somewhere, or somebody looks at him funny and goes,
0:14:05 > 0:14:07"What's that old man over there looking at?"
0:14:07 > 0:14:09If that is reported, he's toast,
0:14:09 > 0:14:11because he will be instantly recalled.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14It's a very strong licence condition.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18I can see a swing park and children's play area,
0:14:18 > 0:14:22so I would not even use the cafe down there, because there's a cafe,
0:14:22 > 0:14:26because it's slap-bang in the middle of a children's area.
0:14:28 > 0:14:35So I'm very conscious, keeping in mind my conditions at all times.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42If I stood here too long, I'd be in breach.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45- INTERVIEWER: Why's that? - Because I'm loitering.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49I'd be straight back inside, back into prison.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54They have CCTV up there, you never know who's watching. Big Brother.
0:14:54 > 0:14:57So, because of the consequences,
0:14:57 > 0:15:00I would have to sort of move on quite quickly now.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06It's for my own protection, as well as everybody else's.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18The offender was discovered during a police operation targeting a suspected paedophile ring.
0:15:20 > 0:15:24He was seen meeting them on Brighton Pier, with a young girl at his side.
0:15:25 > 0:15:27Police seized his phone
0:15:27 > 0:15:30and found images of him having sex with the girl.
0:15:31 > 0:15:36He had been abusing her for three years, starting when she was 11.
0:15:40 > 0:15:44I wonder how he would have got access to that paedophile ring.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46The buying and selling of mobile phones on eBay.
0:15:46 > 0:15:49He bought himself mobile phones all the time,
0:15:49 > 0:15:53and he took pictures of himself abusing her on phones.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56And I don't think he ever downloaded it onto a computer.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58He sold the phones to people.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01No wonder he's not giving anything away, then.
0:16:01 > 0:16:03- That's what- I- think he was up to.
0:16:03 > 0:16:07He was found with one phone with pictures on of him having sex.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10And the phone that they got him with, that had the pictures on,
0:16:10 > 0:16:13was a brand-new phone that he'd only had a couple of weeks.
0:16:13 > 0:16:17So, where's all the other pictures on the other phones gone?
0:16:17 > 0:16:20I suspect he was flogging them off to other paedophiles, as well.
0:16:20 > 0:16:22Worrying, innit?
0:16:25 > 0:16:28The paedophile has always denied he was part of a ring
0:16:28 > 0:16:30and trading indecent images.
0:16:31 > 0:16:36But Rick is concerned that he's in denial about the serious harm he has done to his victim.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41He will use language and semantics
0:16:41 > 0:16:44to make it sound not as bad as it was.
0:16:44 > 0:16:49He will talk about having an affair with ... which, obviously, is patently ludicrous,
0:16:49 > 0:16:52as she was 11 years old at the time he started abusing her,
0:16:52 > 0:16:55and he'd groomed her up for a few years before that.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58He would talk about falling in love with ...
0:16:58 > 0:17:00I mean...as in a relationship way,
0:17:00 > 0:17:03which, again, for a man at the time in his 50s,
0:17:03 > 0:17:07with his barely pubescent victim, is ludicrous.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13Right, go and see...
0:17:13 > 0:17:17Rick is worried that if the paedophile continues to minimise the abuse of his victim,
0:17:17 > 0:17:21he remains a serious risk to the public.
0:17:21 > 0:17:25He wants to use today's session to test his hunch.
0:17:25 > 0:17:29- She was forever coming round to mine...- Yep.- ..with head lice...
0:17:29 > 0:17:32- Oh, right.- ..which she'd picked up from school...- Yeah, yeah.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35So I'd, you know, I'd go out and buy the stuff
0:17:35 > 0:17:38- and do... And do myself as well. - Yeah, absolutely.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41- You can pick them up yourself. - That's right.
0:17:41 > 0:17:46And I mean, that's when I started to feel a little bit...
0:17:48 > 0:17:51sexually attracted towards her.
0:17:51 > 0:17:52OK.
0:17:52 > 0:17:56Cos she used to strip to the waist. Although she hadn't developed...
0:17:56 > 0:17:59- She's an 11-year-old-girl. - That's right.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03Absolutely. Just fast-forwarding things a little bit.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06That's the early attraction and then that went through a period
0:18:06 > 0:18:09where obviously you became more and more physical and, I guess,
0:18:09 > 0:18:14- the feelings that you were pushing to the back came to the front. - Came to the front, yeah.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17So, at that point, did you feel uneasy about it?
0:18:17 > 0:18:21- Yeah, I did feel uneasy. - How did you deal with that?
0:18:21 > 0:18:24Did it become easier once you got into that behaviour?
0:18:24 > 0:18:28It did become easier, because it became habitual.
0:18:28 > 0:18:33- She wasn't saying anything untoward to me.- Mm-hm.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36And she wasn't saying anything untoward to anybody else.
0:18:38 > 0:18:43So, it got easier and I obviously thought...you know,
0:18:43 > 0:18:49I'm getting gratification out of this, and she seems to be OK.
0:18:49 > 0:18:53My problem is that you have, from what you've told me yourself,
0:18:53 > 0:18:58a massive ability to make something that is wrong, right.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02Part of what I'm trying to do with you is get you to recognise that,
0:19:02 > 0:19:07because the last thing I want is for anything like that to happen again.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09You have the ability to do it, a lot of people don't.
0:19:09 > 0:19:15- Yeah.- You have the propensity to do something you know to be wrong
0:19:15 > 0:19:16and to make it OK to do that.
0:19:16 > 0:19:19- Mm.- That's quite... Essentially, from my point of view,
0:19:19 > 0:19:23that's quite dangerous. Can you understand why I might think that?
0:19:23 > 0:19:26- I understand that, yeah. - Do you think that's quite dangerous?
0:19:26 > 0:19:29- Well, I know I won't. - Mm-hm.- Ever again.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37Rick knows that his time is running out.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40Because the man was sentenced before new rules were introduced,
0:19:40 > 0:19:43his restrictions on where he can go will end
0:19:43 > 0:19:47when his licence ends in six months' time.
0:19:47 > 0:19:51After that, the probation service will be powerless to intervene.
0:19:53 > 0:19:54I find it worrying.
0:19:54 > 0:19:59He's still a young man. You know, if his health remains,
0:19:59 > 0:20:03he's got a good 20 years and certainly the next ten,
0:20:03 > 0:20:08he's still young enough to go out, form new relationships,
0:20:08 > 0:20:09get a new woman.
0:20:09 > 0:20:11Invariably, as he says,
0:20:11 > 0:20:15they will probably have children and grandchildren.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18You know, that's scary to me.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30If I hear that my daughter is going out
0:20:30 > 0:20:33to clubs in the area that I work,
0:20:33 > 0:20:38and particularly if I know there's been a release of a,
0:20:38 > 0:20:44you know, a reasonably high-profile sex offender, you know,
0:20:44 > 0:20:46let's cut to the chase here,
0:20:46 > 0:20:48what I find myself doing is,
0:20:48 > 0:20:50I'll be incredibly anxious
0:20:50 > 0:20:54and I'll ring her up and I'll ask her where she's going
0:20:54 > 0:20:57and she'll have to do all of those checks
0:20:57 > 0:21:01that she might have had to do when she was 16,
0:21:01 > 0:21:03and she's now older than 16.
0:21:03 > 0:21:08I can't help that and I try to get over that and I can't,
0:21:08 > 0:21:12because that's my, you know... I need that for myself.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16Linda's first appointment of the day
0:21:16 > 0:21:20is her weekly supervision session with the rapist.
0:21:20 > 0:21:21She wants to hear
0:21:21 > 0:21:25whether he's disclosed his crime to his unsuspecting girlfriend.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28- I mean, this is something I don't agree with.- I know.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31On the licence conditions and all that malark,
0:21:31 > 0:21:32I don't agree with that at all, I think that...
0:21:32 > 0:21:35Why do you think it's on that licence?
0:21:35 > 0:21:36- To protect the public.- OK.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39But I've had no problems with anything like that at all.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42I mean, mine was, like, a one-off sort of crime.
0:21:42 > 0:21:46My crime was way, way out of what my crime usually is
0:21:46 > 0:21:49and I didn't know her, so it's not like I've, you know,
0:21:49 > 0:21:50I've done anything to anyone I know.
0:21:50 > 0:21:54That was just some random, drugged-up, alcohol-fuelled night,
0:21:54 > 0:21:57where everything just seemed to just turn my whole life around,
0:21:57 > 0:21:59and it's just not...
0:21:59 > 0:22:02I don't think I should be judged like every other predator on the street.
0:22:08 > 0:22:102007, a Saturday night.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13The man was thrown out of a nightclub,
0:22:13 > 0:22:15high on cocaine and ketamine.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21He went to the house of a casual lover in search of sex,
0:22:21 > 0:22:23but found nobody in.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28It was then that he came across the victim in the street.
0:22:30 > 0:22:35As I recall, he asked her for a light for his cigarette
0:22:35 > 0:22:40and she either acknowledged him or just continued walking.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43She got quite some distance away from him
0:22:43 > 0:22:45and he then chased after her.
0:22:45 > 0:22:51He grabbed her, pushed her up against a van, said,
0:22:51 > 0:22:55"You're going to do what I tell you.
0:22:55 > 0:23:00"Don't scream, I've got a knife in my pocket and I'll slash your face."
0:23:00 > 0:23:05Demanded that she perform oral sex on him.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08She refused. He then held her
0:23:08 > 0:23:11and raped her.
0:23:12 > 0:23:18He then walked away from her and apparently,
0:23:18 > 0:23:21with his head in his hands, said, "What have I done?"
0:23:21 > 0:23:24And he was arrested a short while after that.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30The victim lost her job,
0:23:30 > 0:23:34her marriage broke down and, in essence, her life collapsed.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38How do you pick yourself up from that?
0:23:46 > 0:23:49If you look at how you are going to help people move forward,
0:23:49 > 0:23:53the basic thing that you have to have is an empathy.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56And that's not just an empathy for the offender,
0:23:56 > 0:23:58that's got to be an empathy for people in general.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01And one of the reasons I came into this job,
0:24:01 > 0:24:03I was working in a women's refuge
0:24:03 > 0:24:06and I was working with women who'd been assaulted and abused
0:24:06 > 0:24:09and I'm thinking, "Hang on here, this isn't quite right.
0:24:09 > 0:24:13"Why aren't we working with the people that are doing the abusing?
0:24:13 > 0:24:18"Why can't we actually do some work to change that thinking?"
0:24:18 > 0:24:21And if I can make an impact on that,
0:24:21 > 0:24:22that's got to ensure
0:24:22 > 0:24:27that there's going to be less potential victims in the future.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30And that's good enough for me.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34In their next session, Linda will demand evidence
0:24:34 > 0:24:37the rapist has stuck to his licence,
0:24:37 > 0:24:40by revealing to his new girlfriend his past.
0:24:40 > 0:24:43If he doesn't, he faces going back to prison.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54It's Monday morning and after his first weekend of freedom,
0:24:54 > 0:24:58kidnapper David Lown has to report to his probation officer.
0:24:58 > 0:24:59First email.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02Glasses would help.
0:25:02 > 0:25:06Liz is worried about his history of offending while drunk.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09The results of the weekend's breathalyser tests have been
0:25:09 > 0:25:11recorded by his hostel.
0:25:11 > 0:25:18Ah. So Saturday night, he blew over, 0.39.
0:25:20 > 0:25:24Sunday night, he blew 0.65.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29Bottom line is that he is drinking.
0:25:31 > 0:25:35He's drunk something every day that he's been out
0:25:35 > 0:25:40and I just looked at his OASys and that's exactly what it says,
0:25:40 > 0:25:43that before he went into custody, he was drinking on a daily basis.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46So he's just resumed exactly what he was doing before.
0:25:46 > 0:25:48- What's the limit?- 35.
0:25:48 > 0:25:52He blew 39 on Saturday and on Sunday, 65.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54- That's nearly double.- Mm.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56And appeared anxious about being recalled.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59A case of mine blew over and he had specific, "Not touch anything,"
0:25:59 > 0:26:02and he got a director's warning, but not a recall.
0:26:02 > 0:26:04I'll do a director's warning.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06He's coming in at half past ten and I'll...
0:26:06 > 0:26:09- Shot across the barrier, he does it again, he's recalled.- Absolutely.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11I'm surprised he lasted the weekend, to be honest.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24This is a warning, a serious warning,
0:26:24 > 0:26:29about his behaviour that's telling him...you know,
0:26:29 > 0:26:32you're getting really near to being recalled to prison.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38Are you going to see him at 10.30? How's that going to go?
0:26:38 > 0:26:41I would imagine he's not going to be very pleased at getting
0:26:41 > 0:26:42a director's warning.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45I can imagine that he'll be trying to tell me that
0:26:45 > 0:26:48he didn't drink that much and there's something wrong
0:26:48 > 0:26:50with the test and that, that kind of...
0:26:50 > 0:26:55However, it's irrelevant to me how much he's had to drink,
0:26:55 > 0:26:58how much he thinks he'd had to drink.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00The evidence is that he blew nearly twice the limit,
0:27:00 > 0:27:02so that's enough for me.
0:27:03 > 0:27:05- I'm here to see Liz. - OK, I'll give her a call.
0:27:09 > 0:27:11David, hiya.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16- Are you all right?- Yeah.
0:27:16 > 0:27:19I'm concerned that you've come out of prison
0:27:19 > 0:27:23and on your day of release, and the following two days,
0:27:23 > 0:27:27- you've been drinking alcohol. - Yeah, it's the weekend, innit?
0:27:27 > 0:27:29This isn't... This isn't about me
0:27:29 > 0:27:33just telling you what to do, David, it's a decision you have to make.
0:27:33 > 0:27:38I have no powers to stop you going and drinking.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42I'm just saying, I swear their breathalyser is a little bit dodgy.
0:27:42 > 0:27:43OK. Well, it's not.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46What I'm going to do, what I'm going to do now,
0:27:46 > 0:27:49to deal with your blowing over on two occasions,
0:27:49 > 0:27:52is issue you with a director's warning.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56Now, the next stage after that is recall.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00- I'm not... I'm not really looking to drink today.- OK.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03I told the hostel, like...
0:28:03 > 0:28:06I'm looking not to drink for the rest of the week,
0:28:06 > 0:28:09- so that I can prove that I can, do you know what I mean?- Yeah.
0:28:09 > 0:28:14I'll expect to see all negative alcohol results, yeah,
0:28:14 > 0:28:15between now and Thursday.
0:28:15 > 0:28:17Yeah, well...
0:28:18 > 0:28:21And then Friday and Saturday, possibly a small amount.
0:28:22 > 0:28:25- Yeah.- Yeah? OK. Cool.
0:28:27 > 0:28:28You can go.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34- See you later. - Take care, yep?- I will.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37And I'll see you next week. Cheerio.
0:28:39 > 0:28:42The whole point of someone having a licence
0:28:42 > 0:28:45with conditions that they have to comply with,
0:28:45 > 0:28:49is because they've committed a serious offence.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51So, we're not talking shoplifting,
0:28:51 > 0:28:53these are people who've committed serious offences,
0:28:53 > 0:28:55where other people have been hurt.
0:28:57 > 0:28:59I'm not going to take that risk.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02You know, my name's on the bottom of all these pieces of paper.
0:29:11 > 0:29:14When you're messing around with probation,
0:29:14 > 0:29:15it's a game of cat and mouse, innit?
0:29:17 > 0:29:20They're always trying to catch you, you're always trying to get away.
0:29:28 > 0:29:31I know I kind of got away with it, really.
0:29:35 > 0:29:40If you do an offence when you're drunk, or if you're on drugs,
0:29:40 > 0:29:43straight away, whether it was linked to the offence or not,
0:29:43 > 0:29:45they'll say, "Oh, because you was drunk, it's linked to the offence."
0:29:45 > 0:29:48It's nothing like that.
0:29:48 > 0:29:51Each situation's different, innit? Hello.
0:29:53 > 0:29:55INTERVIEWER: And in your case?
0:29:55 > 0:29:57It wasn't linked to the offence.
0:30:02 > 0:30:05But I don't... I don't drink to do the offences.
0:30:06 > 0:30:09I drink because I'm going to do the offences.
0:30:09 > 0:30:11It's confusing, but...
0:30:16 > 0:30:19Like, if you're going to do a crime, you don't want to have...
0:30:19 > 0:30:22You don't want to feel bad about it afterwards.
0:30:24 > 0:30:25Do you know what I mean?
0:30:27 > 0:30:30You don't want to feel any remorse or nothing, really.
0:30:32 > 0:30:38Like, I know it's kind of a cold way to look at it, but...you know,
0:30:38 > 0:30:46I'd rather... I'd rather, like, not feel bad about what I've done.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49I don't want to think about what I've done.
0:30:49 > 0:30:54I've done some bad things, you know.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08It's not only violent criminals and sex offenders
0:31:08 > 0:31:10who must be closely monitored.
0:31:10 > 0:31:14170,000 offenders are currently on probation in England and Wales.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19Every person sentenced to more than a year,
0:31:19 > 0:31:22or given a supervision requirement, is allocated a probation officer.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30Roger Robinson was sentenced to a restraining order
0:31:30 > 0:31:32after an assault on his mother.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38He is prohibited from any contact with her for six months.
0:31:38 > 0:31:43I was drunk and I was demanding more money for alcohol,
0:31:43 > 0:31:46cos I wanted another drink
0:31:46 > 0:31:49and Mother didn't have the money
0:31:49 > 0:31:54and...angry, I was breaking stuff
0:31:54 > 0:31:57and generally being an arsehole, being abusive.
0:32:01 > 0:32:05I cut my arm and then smeared it on my mother,
0:32:05 > 0:32:12because I wanted her to feel my pain. That here was my blood, my...
0:32:12 > 0:32:15Call me crazy, but I thought my blood was sort of, erm...
0:32:17 > 0:32:19..sacrosanct, if you can see what I mean.
0:32:20 > 0:32:24Can you let Judith know. He's got something today, has he? No? Can you let Judith know
0:32:24 > 0:32:27that Vicky and I are going to do a home visit on Roger Robinson.
0:32:27 > 0:32:30So, we'll ring before we're going in and then we'll ring when we come.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33Hopefully should be back by 12.30.
0:32:33 > 0:32:34Yep, no worries, that's fine.
0:32:34 > 0:32:36Thanks, darling.
0:32:36 > 0:32:39Robinson is required to report in person to his probation officer,
0:32:39 > 0:32:44Vicky Brown, but today, he's called in to cancel his appointment.
0:32:44 > 0:32:47With a history of mental illness, he can become violent,
0:32:47 > 0:32:49so Vicky decides to visit him at home.
0:32:49 > 0:32:53He's not done anything now, but the way he was speaking
0:32:53 > 0:32:57on the phone, I'm, you know, really concerned about his wellbeing.
0:32:57 > 0:33:02I mean, he's got schizophrenia and a personality disorder.
0:33:02 > 0:33:05- What's his risk? Is it medium? - Medium, yeah.
0:33:06 > 0:33:08Roger?
0:33:08 > 0:33:11There are four months left to run on Robinson's order.
0:33:11 > 0:33:14Vicky will be able to see out his supervision
0:33:14 > 0:33:16before she goes on maternity leave.
0:33:16 > 0:33:18What's going on, Roger?
0:33:18 > 0:33:23I've been all right, but I've been hearing, erm...
0:33:25 > 0:33:28I've... I've been hearing bad voices and that.
0:33:28 > 0:33:30- Right.- And there's, erm...
0:33:31 > 0:33:32Oh, I...
0:33:32 > 0:33:36Now, the other thing I do want to ask you is,
0:33:36 > 0:33:39have you been hurting yourself recently?
0:33:39 > 0:33:41A little bit, yeah.
0:33:41 > 0:33:48- Are the voices telling you to do that?- Yeah. Yeah, a little bit.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51- They're telling you to hurt yourself? - Yeah, but I ignore them.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54- What do they tell you to do? - They just say... Just saying,
0:33:54 > 0:33:56you're atoning for my sins sort of thing.
0:33:56 > 0:33:59It's only cigarette burns on my thigh.
0:33:59 > 0:34:02See, I hide it, you see. I'm... I'm j-just burning now,
0:34:02 > 0:34:06- just, just burning.- OK. When was the last time you cut yourself?
0:34:06 > 0:34:10Ages ago now. Well, last time, when I was in prison, yeah.
0:34:10 > 0:34:12But I think it's really, really important that
0:34:12 > 0:34:16you're seen by the mental health team, because they're specialists
0:34:16 > 0:34:20in dealing with what you're going through at the moment.
0:34:24 > 0:34:27The Offender Management Team in Chichester
0:34:27 > 0:34:30supervises over 400 convicted criminals
0:34:30 > 0:34:32serving their time in the community.
0:34:32 > 0:34:34These are people released on licence,
0:34:34 > 0:34:37on a suspended sentence, or on a community order
0:34:37 > 0:34:39with supervision requirement.
0:34:39 > 0:34:41- Hello, darling.- How are you?
0:34:41 > 0:34:44Please tell me how many times you've done each of the following -
0:34:44 > 0:34:47- slapped her on the face. - Probably once.
0:34:47 > 0:34:49Threw things at her, or about the room.
0:34:49 > 0:34:51- Yeah, five.- Five or more? OK.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55I couldn't promise if I was to see him, I wouldn't run across the road
0:34:55 > 0:34:58and clump him. I couldn't promise that.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01The criminals who come through these doors are not the most serious,
0:35:01 > 0:35:05but they are the most likely to reoffend.
0:35:05 > 0:35:07You sit down anywhere you like.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10They're familiar faces to the probation service and the courts.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12If they're before the courts again,
0:35:12 > 0:35:15it's not anyone's failing, really, but their own.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19But yet there are all those issues there, you still want to help
0:35:19 > 0:35:22that person, so you do feel quite welfare-y sometimes.
0:35:22 > 0:35:23I think that'd be best for everybody...
0:35:23 > 0:35:26- That's quite sensible, yeah. - ..and the children.- Yeah.
0:35:26 > 0:35:29Otherwise, the next time, I might be doing four years in prison.
0:35:29 > 0:35:31It's a difficult balance, isn't it?
0:35:31 > 0:35:34You're an enforcer, but you're also helping them, so...
0:35:41 > 0:35:43When Vicky's offender Roger Robinson
0:35:43 > 0:35:46does not take his medicine, he becomes dangerous.
0:35:46 > 0:35:49He has called her in a desperate state.
0:35:49 > 0:35:52He is presenting an increased risk to the public
0:35:52 > 0:35:57and his mental health really seems to have deteriorated to such a degree
0:35:57 > 0:35:59that I was so concerned,
0:35:59 > 0:36:02I felt I had to come out and see him quite urgently.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05And he really, really needs access to his medication.
0:36:05 > 0:36:08Vicky has booked an emergency appointment with his doctor
0:36:08 > 0:36:10to get some drugs.
0:36:19 > 0:36:23Oh. Hi, Roger. How you doing?
0:36:23 > 0:36:26Not great, huh?
0:36:26 > 0:36:28- Shall we come in, quickly?- Come in.
0:36:28 > 0:36:33See, erm...the angels are saying that, erm... They're...
0:36:33 > 0:36:36They're actually telling me I shouldn't let you in here...
0:36:36 > 0:36:38- Are they?- ..to be honest with you.
0:36:38 > 0:36:39All right, Roger, how about this?
0:36:39 > 0:36:43I won't come in, yeah? I'll... I'll wait outside.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45You go and put your trousers on
0:36:45 > 0:36:47and we'll get down to the doctor's surgery,
0:36:47 > 0:36:49because I've made you that doctor's appointment.
0:36:49 > 0:36:53I'm born of angels, son of Magellan, you see.
0:36:53 > 0:36:55I-I came from the stars.
0:36:55 > 0:36:57Roger, you go and put your...
0:36:57 > 0:36:59I look after babies.
0:36:59 > 0:37:02- Roger. Roger, listen to me. - And that one.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05Roger, listen to me, you go and put your trousers on
0:37:05 > 0:37:07and I'll meet you downstairs.
0:37:07 > 0:37:09Two minutes, cos we must make this appointment, yeah?
0:37:09 > 0:37:11- All right, OK.- OK?
0:37:11 > 0:37:15All right? It's all right, deep breath.
0:37:25 > 0:37:27Roger.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30You all right? You're all right. You're doing well, come on.
0:37:35 > 0:37:40You all right? Come on, Roger. Come on.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42Most of them, they take the piss out of me.
0:37:42 > 0:37:46Well, don't listen to them, Roger. Listen to my voice, OK?
0:37:46 > 0:37:48If we can get round that corner and get into the centre,
0:37:48 > 0:37:51you can get your meds, yeah?
0:37:51 > 0:37:53That's what we've come to do, yeah?
0:37:55 > 0:38:00- All right.- No, no, I'm not going there.- Come on.
0:38:00 > 0:38:02Come on, then. Do you want it, or do you want me to carry it?
0:38:02 > 0:38:03- I'll carry it.- Yep.
0:38:07 > 0:38:08Are you coming in then?
0:38:08 > 0:38:10Well, how do you feel about me coming in?
0:38:12 > 0:38:13- It's fine by me.- Let's go...
0:38:13 > 0:38:15And you feel safe, of course.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18Of course. Let's go in then and see you for a few minutes.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20I'd never harm you, darling.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22Come on. It's all right.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26If Vicky can't get Robinson to take his medication,
0:38:26 > 0:38:31his behaviour could deteriorate and he could become violent.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34Any further offences will land him back before the courts,
0:38:34 > 0:38:39or in prison again, to join the 70% of offenders in custody
0:38:39 > 0:38:41who suffer mental health disorders.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43There you are, fresh water.
0:38:46 > 0:38:47What is it, Roger?
0:38:49 > 0:38:52They're telling me not to take the pills. I'm evil.
0:38:52 > 0:38:54Who's telling you that?
0:38:54 > 0:38:56They are.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59Roger, you recognise these voices are evil, don't you?
0:38:59 > 0:39:02ROGER SOBS
0:39:02 > 0:39:05Can you hear my voice, Roger?
0:39:07 > 0:39:08Roger?
0:39:08 > 0:39:11Roger, do you trust me?
0:39:11 > 0:39:14- Of course I do. - OK. Do you understand that
0:39:14 > 0:39:18I only have your best interests at heart?
0:39:19 > 0:39:21Yeah? Do you believe that?
0:39:24 > 0:39:27- Yeah, of course I do, darling. - Right, OK.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30- They're just being nasty. - Right, then...
0:39:30 > 0:39:32And I've a few times just said to them, "Piss off".
0:39:32 > 0:39:35Yeah, you've had a really tiring day,
0:39:35 > 0:39:38so you listen to my voice, rather than them.
0:39:43 > 0:39:45I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.
0:39:45 > 0:39:48You don't have anything to apologise for, Roger,
0:39:48 > 0:39:49but just take the medication.
0:39:51 > 0:39:52Right, anti-depressants.
0:39:52 > 0:39:54Two of those?
0:39:54 > 0:39:55Yeah.
0:39:55 > 0:39:56Go for it.
0:39:58 > 0:40:01- Do you want some tissue? - I've got some here, lovey.
0:40:01 > 0:40:05- Oh, right, OK.- It's all right, darling. Don't worry about me.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08You look after yourself, because you...
0:40:08 > 0:40:10you're holding a little bump.
0:40:13 > 0:40:14Bless!
0:40:15 > 0:40:18Sorry, I shouldn't be so personal, but I just...
0:40:18 > 0:40:19It's all right.
0:40:20 > 0:40:24I want a family. I want, I want...
0:40:24 > 0:40:28I've got a hell of a lot of love to give.
0:40:28 > 0:40:30I want babies, I want children.
0:40:30 > 0:40:35I'm a sad, old, lonely, fucking bastard, basically.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37I'm a sad old git that needs shooting.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40That's all it is. That's all it is.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42No-one else is saying that, Roger.
0:40:42 > 0:40:44You know, I just...
0:40:44 > 0:40:46I need company and companionship and...
0:40:46 > 0:40:48I know. We all need that, Roger, I know.
0:40:48 > 0:40:49OK, so don't think about it.
0:40:49 > 0:40:51I'm going to miss you.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53Don't think about that yet.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56I'm going to miss you, darling, in the nicest possible way.
0:40:56 > 0:40:58I'm not being ro... You know what I mean.
0:40:58 > 0:41:01- I know, I know.- I'm going to miss you. You're lovely.
0:41:01 > 0:41:03Well, don't think about it yet,
0:41:03 > 0:41:06because we've got a couple of months left, OK?
0:41:06 > 0:41:10So take it easy, have a good night's sleep, all right?
0:41:10 > 0:41:12And I'll give you a ring tomorrow.
0:41:12 > 0:41:13- All right, then.- Yeah?
0:41:13 > 0:41:17Don't worry about seeing me out, and I'll see you tomorrow.
0:41:17 > 0:41:20- Bye, Mr or Mrs Bump!- Bye-bye.
0:41:20 > 0:41:21- See you later.- Bye.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34SHE SIGHS AND LAUGHS
0:41:36 > 0:41:37Just shattered.
0:41:37 > 0:41:40It's just totally, um...
0:41:42 > 0:41:47I felt, at times in that session
0:41:47 > 0:41:50like I was going to almost cry,
0:41:50 > 0:41:55because I feel the limitations of what I can do in this role.
0:41:56 > 0:41:58It's really hard.
0:41:58 > 0:42:04And I'm a very tactile, warm person,
0:42:04 > 0:42:09but I can't be too far that way, of course, in this job.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11You know, if it's someone,
0:42:11 > 0:42:12you know, just an acquaintance
0:42:12 > 0:42:15when I'm out of my working capacity,
0:42:15 > 0:42:19my want would be to sort of reach out and put my arms around the person,
0:42:19 > 0:42:22comfort them. I can't do any of that
0:42:22 > 0:42:25and, of course, that's totally right and appropriate.
0:42:25 > 0:42:29But it is hard to continue that professional stance
0:42:29 > 0:42:34but also be encouraging and help someone.
0:42:37 > 0:42:40But, yeah, the people that I work with just do...
0:42:40 > 0:42:41They do stay with me.
0:43:00 > 0:43:03It's just five days since kidnapper David Lown
0:43:03 > 0:43:05was released from prison,
0:43:05 > 0:43:09and he's already on a final warning for excessive drinking.
0:43:09 > 0:43:13Liz has heard from his hostel that he has failed a breathalyser test
0:43:13 > 0:43:15and has ordered him in to see her.
0:43:15 > 0:43:16How annoying!
0:43:18 > 0:43:19OK.
0:43:19 > 0:43:22He must convince her that, despite the test result,
0:43:22 > 0:43:25he has changed and is serious about avoiding alcohol.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30I promise you, yeah, that I've been worrying all night
0:43:30 > 0:43:31and I promised myself
0:43:31 > 0:43:33I'm not even going to drink for the rest of the week.
0:43:33 > 0:43:35Like, a whole week, nothing. I'm telling you.
0:43:35 > 0:43:38To be honest, David, you said all this to me on Monday.
0:43:38 > 0:43:39I know, but I just want to prove...
0:43:39 > 0:43:42Look, last night I realised how much this really means to me.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45I don't know. It was all I've been thinking about.
0:43:45 > 0:43:46Why do you think I...?
0:43:46 > 0:43:49All I can think about is getting recalled now and it's just...
0:43:49 > 0:43:51it's worrying me and I haven't been able to sleep at night.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53What worries you about being recalled?
0:43:53 > 0:43:55I just don't want to go back to prison, innit?
0:43:55 > 0:43:57I want to change my life.
0:43:57 > 0:44:00That's what I've been looking to do when I come out now,
0:44:00 > 0:44:01and...do you know what I mean?
0:44:02 > 0:44:04But you haven't done anything different.
0:44:04 > 0:44:07How can you change if you don't actively...
0:44:07 > 0:44:08I have been doing things differently.
0:44:08 > 0:44:11What have you done differently?
0:44:11 > 0:44:15I can't explain exactly what I mean, but it's just hit me and...
0:44:15 > 0:44:18The thing is, David, to be honest, your promises,
0:44:18 > 0:44:19you know, I've heard it all before.
0:44:19 > 0:44:22Look, I swear. I swear on my mum's life.
0:44:22 > 0:44:25OK, what I want you to do now, I need to go and discuss this.
0:44:25 > 0:44:29My thoughts are that I have to take action on this.
0:44:29 > 0:44:32- That I can't ignore it. - You're going to recall me?
0:44:32 > 0:44:34I need to go and discuss it with my manager.
0:44:34 > 0:44:35I want you to go back to the hostel
0:44:35 > 0:44:39and I will contact you at the hostel and tell you what's happening.
0:44:39 > 0:44:40Listen, please.
0:44:41 > 0:44:44Look, I swear to God. Please, just...
0:44:44 > 0:44:47I understand you haven't got much to go on,
0:44:47 > 0:44:50for believing me and that, apart from Monday.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52I understand that.
0:44:52 > 0:44:54Are you going to go back there now?
0:44:54 > 0:44:55I want you to go back there now.
0:44:55 > 0:44:58I'll ring hostel staff, tell them that you're on your way, yeah?
0:44:58 > 0:45:01And then they can give me a call when you get there.
0:45:01 > 0:45:02OK.
0:45:02 > 0:45:04Yep, OK, thanks, David.
0:45:04 > 0:45:08I appreciate you coming in and talking to me.
0:45:08 > 0:45:10You go straight back, yeah?
0:45:10 > 0:45:13I'll give them a call and tell them that you're on your way, yeah?
0:45:30 > 0:45:31For Liz and her colleagues,
0:45:31 > 0:45:35deciding to send someone back to prison is all too common.
0:45:37 > 0:45:41One in eight serious offenders released during their sentence
0:45:41 > 0:45:44is recalled for breaching their licence.
0:45:44 > 0:45:46Stand up on there for us.
0:45:46 > 0:45:49'I can't change my mind. Really, even if I wanted to,
0:45:49 > 0:45:53'because if I ignored that today and didn't take any action,'
0:45:53 > 0:45:56I would have given him the message that, actually,
0:45:56 > 0:45:57it's OK to drink,
0:45:57 > 0:45:59and he went out tonight and he drank
0:45:59 > 0:46:04and he committed an offence and somebody got hurt.
0:46:04 > 0:46:05Quite rightly so,
0:46:05 > 0:46:10I would have a lot of explaining to do.
0:46:10 > 0:46:12Nige, can you take one down for me?
0:46:12 > 0:46:16You want to come with me?
0:46:16 > 0:46:19'This is to protect the public.'
0:46:19 > 0:46:21If he's going to drink, he can't be in the community.
0:46:26 > 0:46:29'It is about risk, but I am human as well,'
0:46:29 > 0:46:31so I do think about him, and I do... I...
0:46:34 > 0:46:36I feel for him.
0:46:36 > 0:46:38I don't feel sorry for him, but I do feel for him.
0:46:48 > 0:46:51The responsibility of both protecting the public
0:46:51 > 0:46:54and managing the offender's welfare can be a difficult balance.
0:46:55 > 0:46:58Is Vicky around, or has she disappeared?
0:46:58 > 0:46:59There has been a phone call
0:46:59 > 0:47:02into the Chichester office from Roger Robinson.
0:47:02 > 0:47:04He is concerned about his relationship
0:47:04 > 0:47:07with his probation officer.
0:47:07 > 0:47:08I phoned up probation and said,
0:47:08 > 0:47:11"Could I have another probation officer, please,
0:47:11 > 0:47:12"because I've got, erm...
0:47:15 > 0:47:17"..inappropriate feelings for my probation officer,"
0:47:17 > 0:47:19and I asked for another one.
0:47:19 > 0:47:20You know, it's only cos...
0:47:22 > 0:47:24It's only cos I'm bloody lonely, really,
0:47:24 > 0:47:28and she's showing me... Not affection, but she's shown,
0:47:28 > 0:47:31well, she has shown affection, in a professional way.
0:47:31 > 0:47:36It's my nature, as well, that wants to help and wants to intervene,
0:47:36 > 0:47:43and I do invest time and my own emotion into my cases.
0:47:43 > 0:47:46I can't help that, that's just the person that I am.
0:47:47 > 0:47:49I sort of question what I've done
0:47:49 > 0:47:52and whether I've done more harm than good, actually.
0:47:52 > 0:47:56I actually phoned up the police the other day as well,
0:47:56 > 0:48:00and asked for my community sentence to be extended.
0:48:00 > 0:48:01And do you know, the mad thing is,
0:48:01 > 0:48:04I even considered committing another minor crime,
0:48:04 > 0:48:06so I'd get put on probation.
0:48:06 > 0:48:08Just a fleeting, mad thought, but...
0:48:12 > 0:48:15Nah, I won't do that. I'm not a plonker.
0:48:15 > 0:48:19Vicky's manager wants to discuss Robinson's call
0:48:19 > 0:48:22and the effect it might have on his future supervision.
0:48:22 > 0:48:24He apparently rang on Friday,
0:48:24 > 0:48:29specifically requesting a different officer.
0:48:29 > 0:48:31So how did that feel, hearing that?
0:48:31 > 0:48:35Well, it did make me question how I've been dealing with him.
0:48:35 > 0:48:38You know, has he completely misconstrued my intervention
0:48:38 > 0:48:41and my help to mean something else.
0:48:41 > 0:48:46And I think it's been the absence of another service or agency
0:48:46 > 0:48:49intervening or giving him some assistance,
0:48:49 > 0:48:54that has meant I've gone extra with Roger. I've gone further.
0:48:54 > 0:48:59- OK.- But I didn't want him to be taken off me,
0:48:59 > 0:49:02or someone else supervise him. I wanted to stick with him,
0:49:02 > 0:49:07especially seeing as his order was so nearing the end anyway.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10And, actually, his order ends two days before I leave.
0:49:10 > 0:49:14- Yeah.- And it seemed to make sense for me to sort of stick with it
0:49:14 > 0:49:17and maybe put some other measures in place and keep going with him.
0:49:17 > 0:49:18I think that's right.
0:49:29 > 0:49:31Linda's last session with the rapist
0:49:31 > 0:49:35left her unsettled about whether it's safe for him to be at liberty.
0:49:35 > 0:49:38She has decided that a failure to reveal his offence
0:49:38 > 0:49:41to his new girlfriend makes him a danger to the public.
0:49:43 > 0:49:44One thing's for sure,
0:49:44 > 0:49:46you never really know what you're going to walk into
0:49:46 > 0:49:49and what might have happened overnight.
0:49:49 > 0:49:52Each day brings a new challenge.
0:49:52 > 0:49:54You have to be on your game,
0:49:54 > 0:49:59because the consequences if you're not can be enormous.
0:50:04 > 0:50:07Linda arrives to news that the rapist is in police custody.
0:50:08 > 0:50:12Right. So he said... Can I just clarify?
0:50:12 > 0:50:15So he said that...when you picked up the, erm...
0:50:15 > 0:50:17When you found the white powder on him,
0:50:17 > 0:50:20he said it was either going to be ketamine or amphetamine?
0:50:22 > 0:50:25SHE SIGHS
0:50:25 > 0:50:27The police were called to a disturbance
0:50:27 > 0:50:31outside his ex-girlfriend's house at two in the morning.
0:50:31 > 0:50:34When they stopped him, they found he was in possession of cocaine.
0:50:36 > 0:50:38Everything that he did on this night,
0:50:38 > 0:50:41even though it's still an allegation at this stage,
0:50:41 > 0:50:46everything he did mirrors what happened on the night of his offence.
0:50:46 > 0:50:48- What was he thinking, for goodness...?- He wasn't, was he?
0:50:48 > 0:50:50He wasn't thinking, was he? No, he wasn't.
0:50:50 > 0:50:53- That's one of his problems. - It is, yeah.
0:50:53 > 0:50:56I could really have done without this today.
0:50:56 > 0:51:00Because the rapist's actions suggest he is still a danger,
0:51:00 > 0:51:03Linda has no option but to recall him to prison.
0:51:04 > 0:51:08This is his second recall now, on licence.
0:51:08 > 0:51:11I think it's going to be hard to persuade anyone now
0:51:11 > 0:51:14to trust him to come out again on another licence period.
0:51:14 > 0:51:18He's probably looking at spending the rest of his sentence
0:51:18 > 0:51:22now in custody, which, again, gives you some problems.
0:51:22 > 0:51:27What happens when he comes out, under no supervision?
0:51:27 > 0:51:30He's not a guy, with all the support we've thrown in at him,
0:51:30 > 0:51:34that seems to be able to manage particularly well in the community.
0:51:34 > 0:51:38It's not really a problem solved, is it?
0:51:38 > 0:51:41It's a problem parked, for the moment.
0:51:41 > 0:51:47Still, there we go, we work in a system and that's how it is.
0:51:53 > 0:51:56With only a few weeks before the start of her maternity leave,
0:51:56 > 0:52:00Vicky sets up an appointment for Roger Robinson
0:52:00 > 0:52:02at the mental health charity, MIND.
0:52:02 > 0:52:05She wants to help prepare him for life after probation.
0:52:08 > 0:52:10Hi, are you, Carolynn? Hi. Lovely to meet you.
0:52:10 > 0:52:12- Nice to meet you. - Hi, Roger, how are you doing?
0:52:12 > 0:52:15- I'm all right. Hello. - Good to see you.
0:52:15 > 0:52:17- It sounds good, doesn't it? - It is good, yeah.
0:52:17 > 0:52:21It does, it sounds like there's loads of opportunities and stuff.
0:52:21 > 0:52:24Yeah, I go for walks with them on a Sunday and that.
0:52:24 > 0:52:28Yeah. So medication-wise, have you...
0:52:28 > 0:52:30Since I last saw you, you've been taking it?
0:52:30 > 0:52:33I'm taking it and I've got my new batch yesterday,
0:52:33 > 0:52:35so I've got my meds.
0:52:35 > 0:52:38No voices, no voices. I've got a clearer head, actually.
0:52:38 > 0:52:39How does that feel?
0:52:40 > 0:52:42Weird, strangely enough.
0:52:42 > 0:52:45But it's all right, it's all right.
0:52:45 > 0:52:48- I suppose we can leave it there, Roger, really.- Right.
0:52:48 > 0:52:51As long as you're happy. If there's anything else you want to talk about?
0:52:51 > 0:52:52Just wanted to say, thank you very much
0:52:52 > 0:52:55- for all your help over the six months.- That's my pleasure.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57I put a good word in for you at head office.
0:52:57 > 0:52:59I phoned them the other week, so...
0:52:59 > 0:53:01SHE LAUGHS Right, thanks!
0:53:01 > 0:53:02I told them you're awesome.
0:53:02 > 0:53:05I don't know anything about that, Roger, but thanks!
0:53:05 > 0:53:07Yeah, I phoned them, so...
0:53:12 > 0:53:15You know, it's right to say that he's done it himself.
0:53:15 > 0:53:19I've helped him along the way, and, you know,
0:53:19 > 0:53:22maybe my level of intervention could raise some criticism.
0:53:22 > 0:53:26People could ask questions about the remit of my role.
0:53:26 > 0:53:28Should I have been so involved?
0:53:28 > 0:53:33Should I have that kind of welfare approach to him?
0:53:33 > 0:53:35But seeing him today, I have no doubt that what I did
0:53:35 > 0:53:39and how I approached the order was the right way to go about things.
0:53:40 > 0:53:43It's not too bad, actually. Not too bad at all.
0:53:43 > 0:53:45'You have to, you know, build up a relationship,
0:53:45 > 0:53:48'learn about them, learn how they will respond
0:53:48 > 0:53:49'and what would work best for them
0:53:49 > 0:53:51'while, of course, taking into account
0:53:51 > 0:53:54'your need to monitor and manage their risk.
0:53:55 > 0:53:58'But in doing so, I think I've established the right way
0:53:58 > 0:54:00'and the right course of action with Roger
0:54:00 > 0:54:03'and managed to safeguard his mother a bit.'
0:54:05 > 0:54:07So I'm going to put it out there
0:54:07 > 0:54:09and say I'm feeling positive about Roger,
0:54:09 > 0:54:10and optimistic about his future.
0:54:16 > 0:54:17No, no, no, no!
0:54:20 > 0:54:24It's one month after Linda requested the rapist's recall to prison.
0:54:24 > 0:54:27Her supervision of him continues,
0:54:27 > 0:54:30even though he's now safely behind bars.
0:54:30 > 0:54:35Her recommendation to the parole board could make all the difference.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38He could spend the rest of his sentence locked up,
0:54:38 > 0:54:39with no chance of parole.
0:54:39 > 0:54:42I've been caught with cocaine, yeah? I've been caught with cocaine.
0:54:42 > 0:54:44That is the only thing I've done wrong,
0:54:44 > 0:54:47in one sense, of the actual charge, kind of thing.
0:54:47 > 0:54:49Other than that, I just went round someone's house
0:54:49 > 0:54:50to get my stuff back.
0:54:50 > 0:54:52What is so wrong about that?
0:54:52 > 0:54:54I should never have gone there intoxicated.
0:54:54 > 0:54:56That's what I done wrong. I was intoxicated.
0:54:56 > 0:54:58You should never try and sort something out
0:54:58 > 0:55:01when your mind is altered by anything, do you know what I mean?
0:55:01 > 0:55:05But other than that... All right, that's what I done wrong.
0:55:05 > 0:55:09The fact I went round there with the wrong sort of mindset.
0:55:09 > 0:55:12I don't come from the life that all you lot come from.
0:55:12 > 0:55:15You expect me to come out and be this angel...
0:55:15 > 0:55:17Not you, I'm not saying that.
0:55:17 > 0:55:21I'm saying the whole service expects you to come out and be this angel.
0:55:21 > 0:55:23No-one expects you to be an angel.
0:55:23 > 0:55:26But because you have committed a very serious offence,
0:55:26 > 0:55:28you have additional responsibilities
0:55:28 > 0:55:33to evidence that you can manage yourself,
0:55:33 > 0:55:35as much as you can be monitored managing those risks.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38- I wasn't doing anything wrong.- OK.
0:55:38 > 0:55:40I wasn't. What was I doing wrong? I didn't do nothing wrong.
0:55:40 > 0:55:43All right, there was things that I could have done better.
0:55:43 > 0:55:45- Yeah.- But it wasn't like they were so wrong and that,
0:55:45 > 0:55:47do you know what I mean? Regardless...
0:55:47 > 0:55:50I know from your perception and everyone else's perception,
0:55:50 > 0:55:52I'm a fucking monster, I'm this, that, the other,
0:55:52 > 0:55:54and I'm going to go and do this, and do that,
0:55:54 > 0:55:56cos that's how I'm looked upon.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58However, it's all nonsense.
0:55:58 > 0:56:00Ain't nothing like that's going to ever happen.
0:56:00 > 0:56:02There's worse people.
0:56:02 > 0:56:05- The public don't need protecting from me at all.- OK.
0:56:05 > 0:56:08There's worse people out there now that shouldn't be out there.
0:56:08 > 0:56:10OK, I don't doubt that that's the case.
0:56:10 > 0:56:12But I'm not managing those people.
0:56:12 > 0:56:16I'm managing you and I'm responsible for your risk management.
0:56:16 > 0:56:19And, actually there's an element whereby,
0:56:19 > 0:56:23if I think about it entirely selfishly, you're here,
0:56:23 > 0:56:25I know you're safe, I know everyone else is safe,
0:56:25 > 0:56:28and I haven't got to worry about you in any way, shape or form.
0:56:28 > 0:56:29That's what I'm saying,
0:56:29 > 0:56:32that's the good thing about whether I just do the whole lot,
0:56:32 > 0:56:34then I'd get out. I ain't got all this.
0:56:34 > 0:56:36OK, so you'll still be monitored if you come out at the end.
0:56:36 > 0:56:38Not really, not really.
0:56:38 > 0:56:39Not with no licence.
0:56:41 > 0:56:43It's best not to keep going round in circles.
0:56:43 > 0:56:46Maybe we just need to leave it there for the time being.
0:56:50 > 0:56:52INTERVIEWER: So what would happen
0:56:52 > 0:56:54if you were to serve your whole licence in prison?
0:56:54 > 0:56:56I would get out with no licence, which means...
0:56:56 > 0:56:58it's like a double-edged sword.
0:56:58 > 0:57:00I can look at it like I'll be sweet,
0:57:00 > 0:57:03but at the same time, they ain't going to be able to supervise me.
0:57:04 > 0:57:09You know, the public should be really encouraged
0:57:09 > 0:57:11that we can respond so quickly
0:57:11 > 0:57:13and remove a potentially dangerous individual
0:57:13 > 0:57:16from the community, so that the community is protected.
0:57:18 > 0:57:22Nearly half of all offenders who leave prison reoffend within a year.
0:57:22 > 0:57:26But they are more likely to offend if they are not under supervision.
0:57:26 > 0:57:30There are 170,000 criminals on probation
0:57:30 > 0:57:32and 10,000 probation officers to monitor them.
0:57:32 > 0:57:35- Does he just have to return now? - He does, yeah, exactly.
0:57:35 > 0:57:37He just has to go back?
0:57:37 > 0:57:40So if they did an emergency recall within two hours,
0:57:40 > 0:57:42that's possible?
0:57:42 > 0:57:44Well, they could pick him up from here.
0:57:44 > 0:57:46The police could pick him up from here.
0:57:46 > 0:57:48'That's the bit that the public don't know
0:57:48 > 0:57:50'that I think they should know.'
0:57:50 > 0:57:53That we do work to protect them,
0:57:53 > 0:57:56and there's a lot of us that do it.
0:57:56 > 0:57:58And most of the time it works.
0:57:58 > 0:58:00They only hear about it when it goes wrong.
0:58:00 > 0:58:03And then I think, "Well, we must be doing a worthwhile job,"
0:58:03 > 0:58:06because it doesn't go wrong that often.
0:58:31 > 0:58:34Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd