:00:15. > :00:19.Everyone has a view on how the streets should be policed.
:00:19. > :00:29.Crackdown on antisocial behaviour, more police on the beat, in just
:00:29. > :00:31.
:00:31. > :00:33.over one week the way the police That is when we elect brand new
:00:33. > :00:37.Police and Crime Commissioner has, and through them we will get the
:00:37. > :00:42.chance to decide how the police deal with everything from under-age
:00:42. > :00:46.drinking, graffiti, right through to gun crime.
:00:46. > :00:56.To night we will explain the idea, look at how it might work, and
:00:56. > :01:10.
:01:10. > :01:15.Millions of us across England and Wales are in -- being given a
:01:15. > :01:25.choice. Who do we want to be a Police and Crime Commissioner? Who
:01:25. > :01:31.do we want to decide a strategy on how safe the streets are and
:01:31. > :01:34.safeguard victims? The new police and Crown Commissioners -- will the
:01:34. > :01:39.new Police and Crime Commissioner has make a difference? Tonight we
:01:39. > :01:44.will be looking at what these police elections mean for all of us.
:01:44. > :01:47.In the east, the challenges facing police commissioners here. I have
:01:47. > :01:50.been to Luton to look at community relations and we will be hearing
:01:50. > :02:00.from the former Home Secretary Charles Clarke, who believes the
:02:00. > :02:04.whole election process is So, in the next half-hour, we will
:02:04. > :02:10.be looking at what difference these new police commissioners are going
:02:10. > :02:20.to make. Later in the programme we will be asking, are the candidates
:02:20. > :02:21.
:02:21. > :02:28.out there are going in the right direction? We have a representative
:02:28. > :02:32.from Liberty,... What will they be responsible for? They will be able
:02:32. > :02:38.to hire and fire a chief constable, they will have to deliver a five-
:02:38. > :02:43.year police plan, and come up with the Budget, and they will also have
:02:43. > :02:46.to regularly consult us. They may also be able to extend the
:02:46. > :02:52.influence on how justice is administered through the court.
:02:52. > :02:56.These characters will be managing multi-million-pound organisations,
:02:56. > :03:00.and developing a plan that covers population of millions within one
:03:00. > :03:10.police force area. It is a huge task. We have been trying to find
:03:10. > :03:11.
:03:11. > :03:15.The police have to manage all types of crime, whether it is violent
:03:15. > :03:20.crime in the city on antisocial behaviour in the countryside. The
:03:20. > :03:22.Government's advertising campaign is hard hitting, but the new Police
:03:22. > :03:32.and Crime Commissioner will have to tack into people's everyday
:03:32. > :03:33.
:03:33. > :03:37.concerns. Police do not like speed tests, because they use it like a
:03:37. > :03:41.motorway. The crime Commissioner's job was to listen to the public and
:03:42. > :03:45.in the run-up to the elections, the candidates are right, making
:03:45. > :03:51.promises to win votes. Once in office, they may discover how
:03:51. > :03:58.complex policing is with conflicting demands.
:03:58. > :04:02.In Middlesbrough, antisocial behaviour takes up most police time.
:04:02. > :04:06.Ron has suffered 10 years of abuse, including two petrol bomb attacks
:04:06. > :04:11.on his home. He knows exactly what he wants from the new Police and
:04:11. > :04:14.Crime Commissioner. They need to sort the estate out, more police on
:04:14. > :04:18.the beat, because without that people are just going to suffer
:04:18. > :04:22.more. We need to target the people causing the trouble in the
:04:22. > :04:26.communities. Police on the beat may reassure
:04:26. > :04:33.people their communities are safe, but deploying them everywhere all
:04:34. > :04:37.the time is impossible. Different crimes need different policing.
:04:37. > :04:40.Take a 10 in North Yorkshire, where crime is relatively low. Bobbies on
:04:40. > :04:47.the beat are not a priority, but recently the village post office
:04:47. > :04:50.had its cast machines stolen. -- cash machine.
:04:50. > :04:56.Two doors down from the Post Office, Karen's property has been broken
:04:56. > :05:03.into twice. She is concerned that rural areas will be overlooked by
:05:03. > :05:06.the Police and Crime Commissioner. My concern is that the police
:05:06. > :05:13.commissioner might think that petty crime as it is labelled does not
:05:13. > :05:16.matter, but it does matter to people, especially in rural areas.
:05:16. > :05:24.If someone takes your trailer debate, or they break and you shed,
:05:24. > :05:27.it affects those people. We pay taxes to, and the matter. It is up
:05:27. > :05:32.to the crime Commissioner to listen and deliver policing relevant to
:05:32. > :05:36.you. They need to do it with limited resources, but that is not
:05:37. > :05:40.the only challenge. There is the issue of personalities. The new
:05:40. > :05:44.crime Commissioner will set the priorities for a chief constable.
:05:44. > :05:51.How will they get on and can the Eddery on how to achieve what the
:05:51. > :05:54.public wants to see? A reduction in crime. Keith Halliwell as a former
:05:54. > :06:01.chief constable, who knows how tough the jobless. He thinks the
:06:01. > :06:04.job of the new Police and Crime Commissioner will be even harder.
:06:04. > :06:07.It is challenging because the individual will need to understand
:06:07. > :06:12.the police service and will need to know a lot about politics. They
:06:12. > :06:16.need to know how to run an enormous organisation and the confidence in
:06:16. > :06:26.the public -- of the public and the media. It is a virtually impossible
:06:26. > :06:27.
:06:27. > :06:31.task for any individual to the bat. Strong words. Virtually impossible?
:06:31. > :06:35.I do not think that is right, he is talking about managing the police
:06:35. > :06:39.force. The chief constable will manage the police force. The Police
:06:39. > :06:42.and Crime Commissioner is a political leader, looking at
:06:42. > :06:46.decisions about priorities and identify policing needs. He will
:06:46. > :06:53.not be managing the police force on a day-to-day basis. There is a
:06:53. > :06:57.management team and assistants who are paid and were trained to do
:06:57. > :07:03.that. There was a lot about change in police operations, but this is
:07:03. > :07:08.not going to affect police operations except if the Chief
:07:08. > :07:11.Constable wants them to change. It is about priorities, focusing on
:07:11. > :07:17.people's needs, identifying them and making sure the police
:07:17. > :07:21.constable meet them. It is power to the people. It is not, it is power
:07:21. > :07:29.to another elected politician, which we have seen too much of in
:07:30. > :07:36.policing. How can you argue against more democracy? Democracy has -- is
:07:36. > :07:41.not just about elections. You also have to have the rule of law.
:07:41. > :07:44.Politicians set the laws of, they decide what the police powers are,
:07:44. > :07:48.and what the crimes are. But then you need independent professional
:07:48. > :07:53.serving the whole community, whether they vote or not. Young,
:07:53. > :08:03.Auld, minorities and majorities. I am worried that this charismatic
:08:03. > :08:04.
:08:05. > :08:08.local politician, if that is who he is, I am worried that the
:08:08. > :08:12.politician is going to be looking for headlines unpopular causes, and
:08:12. > :08:19.not serving the tough needs of the entire community, no matter how
:08:19. > :08:25.vulnerable they are. Lord Russell? I just do not agree. Members of
:08:25. > :08:28.Parliament serve the whole of their communities when the unelected, --
:08:28. > :08:31.when they are elected, and there may her serves the whole of London.
:08:31. > :08:36.I do not think we need to worry about them neglecting their
:08:36. > :08:41.community. But the public want the loll to be administered with uneven
:08:41. > :08:48.hand, they do not want judges are police chiefs to be elected. We
:08:48. > :08:54.spoke to the public last year about whether they wanted the system are
:08:54. > :08:59.their preferred the existing system -- or they prefer the existing
:08:59. > :09:03.system. 65% said they would rather stick with the status quo. Only 15%
:09:03. > :09:11.thought they would trust the elected politician over the chief
:09:11. > :09:17.constable under the existing system. You accept that it may be a very
:09:17. > :09:20.low turnout, and that people do not yet understand the concept of this
:09:20. > :09:24.role in one individual's hands. You are saying that is the elections
:09:24. > :09:31.after this one that will be a really significant. So-called will
:09:31. > :09:35.the next four years be, a pilot? it will be when they begin to make
:09:35. > :09:42.a difference in their community, and members of the communities
:09:42. > :09:46.begin to realise that he is someone who can make a difference to their
:09:46. > :09:50.life. Now, people have never heard of them, they regard crime has
:09:50. > :09:55.something done to them, not something they can control. But if
:09:55. > :10:01.he is not going to interfere in operational policing, what is the
:10:01. > :10:06.great transformation he is going to do? I believe in inspirational
:10:06. > :10:10.leadership. I believe a police commissioner can get a more
:10:10. > :10:13.effective police force by inspiring and leading and supporting the
:10:13. > :10:18.chief constable. I do not see this as a conflict between the Chief
:10:18. > :10:22.Constable... Let's talk about one of the biggest police cover-ups in
:10:22. > :10:29.criminal history, Hillsborough. Jenny, you lost your two lovely
:10:29. > :10:36.girls. I wonder if you had had a Police and Crime Commissioner there,
:10:36. > :10:46.he was answerable to good folks if your voice wasn't being heard
:10:46. > :10:47.
:10:47. > :10:50.for so long? The current system does not seem to have worked for us.
:10:50. > :10:56.Certain people should have been suspended because of allegations
:10:56. > :11:00.about them. It just did not happen. So do you think a Police and Crime
:11:00. > :11:06.Commissioner, because he is answerable to people, he or she
:11:06. > :11:09.would have been better for you? would hope so. I would hope there
:11:09. > :11:15.would be more transparency, more accountability from them because
:11:15. > :11:22.they were elected. Peter, as a former top policemen yourself, more
:11:22. > :11:31.transparency, more accountability. Is this a real possibility?
:11:31. > :11:35.depends. Politicians are not known for opening up and being
:11:35. > :11:44.transparent just before an election, so there would be other levers.
:11:44. > :11:54.There are one or two facets of the new role, police authorities do
:11:54. > :11:55.
:11:55. > :12:02.meet in public meetings, so they have public meetings. Most of the
:12:02. > :12:05.meetings with a police and on their own. Somehow the decision making in
:12:05. > :12:11.public made go, and there is a big bonus on the individual who takes
:12:11. > :12:14.on the role to make sure the public sees the decision being taken, done
:12:15. > :12:22.in smoke-filled rooms. There could be some horrendous personality
:12:22. > :12:28.clashes as well. That is a distinct possibility. Most police chiefs
:12:28. > :12:34.will want to make the relationship work. Jenny? I can hear what you're
:12:34. > :12:38.saying. I did not realise it would not be in an open forum, where
:12:38. > :12:44.decisions would be made. That is quite worrying. That is not good
:12:44. > :12:48.for transparency. Coming back to the accountability, being elected
:12:48. > :12:52.by the public... And I agree that there should be accountability and
:12:52. > :13:01.what happened with Hill's there are is one of the greatest policing
:13:01. > :13:09.scandals of my life in. Ultimately it was people power has
:13:09. > :13:15.forced change here. Isn't this an expression of democratic law?
:13:15. > :13:17.but there were others who did not deal with the situation. Are you
:13:17. > :13:22.concerned that the Police and Crime Commissioner may not share your
:13:22. > :13:27.liberal agenda? Not at all. This is a constitutional point I am making.
:13:27. > :13:37.It is not about any agenda, it is about saying that you need checks
:13:37. > :13:38.
:13:38. > :13:41.and balances in a democracy, and I would no more have an elected judge,
:13:41. > :13:44.and I think you could policing in the hands of elected politicians
:13:44. > :13:50.they do not necessarily serve the whole community, just the most
:13:50. > :13:57.popular bets. Can we have a brief final comment? I see it differently.
:13:58. > :14:03.This is a job which concerns the allegation of scarce resources,
:14:03. > :14:07.which is a role for politicians. -- a role. Policing resources are very
:14:07. > :14:12.limited, and someone has to make that decision. Is it a chief
:14:12. > :14:18.constable who makes the decision or a freely elected Police and Crime
:14:18. > :14:22.Commissioner who has to defend his actions every day. The local media
:14:22. > :14:26.will need to make sure this is transparent. Thank you for now.
:14:26. > :14:30.Later, we will be looking at what the candidates themselves say that
:14:30. > :14:40.there are going to do if they are elected. What their priorities are.
:14:40. > :14:42.
:14:42. > :14:48.These commissioners will have a Hello from Fairhall in the village
:14:48. > :14:54.of Health's there in Bedfordshire. This dates back to the 15th century
:14:54. > :14:58.and this room was a court room for more than 500 years. The local
:14:58. > :15:01.Abbey would have presided over everything from petty thieves to
:15:01. > :15:06.disputes over weights and measures. We are discussing crime and
:15:06. > :15:11.punishment in the 21st century. One of the biggest challenges facing
:15:11. > :15:18.police today is community relations. We will start down the road from
:15:18. > :15:26.here in Luton. Luton is home to about 200,000
:15:26. > :15:33.people. Just under a third of those who live here are from black and
:15:33. > :15:37.ethnic minorities. Historically there has been unrest and mistrust
:15:37. > :15:43.between some of the communities living here, but people are working
:15:43. > :15:50.together to try and encourage better relations. What is the most
:15:50. > :15:53.important thing and it begins at our? Respect! Yes. This is blood
:15:53. > :15:59.fell road part and football coaching organised by the people
:15:59. > :16:04.who also run the multi-faith Football League. It has always been
:16:04. > :16:08.about bringing communities together, especially in our town over the
:16:08. > :16:14.last few years. We were finding that even in the local football,
:16:14. > :16:17.there were a lot of teams playing, but not together. We invited lots
:16:17. > :16:22.of different members of the community and ask them to bring
:16:22. > :16:26.teams along. The beauty of the tournament was that afterwards
:16:26. > :16:31.there was the opportunity to sit down and talk and have a
:16:31. > :16:35.conversation about something they had in common, which is football.
:16:35. > :16:40.We also build relationships. While lots of people are working to make
:16:40. > :16:46.things better, whoever becomes Police Commissioner for
:16:46. > :16:52.Bedfordshire faces real challenges. No surrender, no surrender, no
:16:52. > :16:57.surrender! In recent years there have been extreme right wing Martin
:16:57. > :17:05.cheers, clashes with the police and angry demonstrations by some
:17:05. > :17:10.Muslims against British troops. Set against this conflict, that
:17:10. > :17:15.multi-faith football project is a positive initiative. Can playing
:17:15. > :17:19.football really make a difference? Vicky is, we all read something in
:17:19. > :17:25.common and football is one of those key areas we can bring communities
:17:25. > :17:29.together. I like to think that in 15 or 20 years, these young people
:17:29. > :17:34.will still have friendships. vast majority of people living in
:17:34. > :17:37.Luton are law-abiding and whoever becomes the first Commissioner for
:17:37. > :17:42.Bedfordshire will meet to find a way of dealing with the noisy
:17:42. > :17:46.minority. There are five candidates hoping to
:17:46. > :17:51.become police and crime commissioner for Bedfordshire. The
:17:51. > :18:00.list is on the screen now. They represent the British Freedom Party,
:18:00. > :18:05.Lib Dems, Labour, Conservatives and one independent.
:18:05. > :18:12.We take Luton as an example, can one person be all things to the
:18:12. > :18:16.whole of that community which is so diverse? I think they certainly can.
:18:16. > :18:20.There's a very good advantage to this. In future people will have
:18:20. > :18:26.one person, their champion, independent from the police, that
:18:26. > :18:34.they can talk to about concerns they have. Even come forward with
:18:34. > :18:38.ideas of improvement. I know from being a member of parliament, I
:18:38. > :18:45.represent all of the people in my community regardless of fuse or
:18:45. > :18:49.background. Not all candidates might in this. We will see what
:18:49. > :18:54.happens on election day and what candidates we get, but they are all
:18:54. > :18:59.required to. They will have to represent the whole community and
:18:59. > :19:05.also they will have duties to perform in that role. I agree with
:19:05. > :19:10.the aspirations that Rebecca set out. It is the job of the police
:19:10. > :19:16.from every single constable to have relationships with all sections of
:19:16. > :19:20.communities in a positive way. That has been a police reform programme
:19:20. > :19:24.for the last 15 to 20 years. That is the real challenge in
:19:24. > :19:29.communities like which you showed on film. I don't think the police
:19:29. > :19:36.commissioner will add to that, but it is crucial that the it are the
:19:36. > :19:40.person that Rebecca described. Isn't there feeling in some parts
:19:40. > :19:46.of society now that under police authorities, the police have been
:19:46. > :19:51.soft on crime and soft on the causes of crime? I don't think that
:19:51. > :19:54.history. It is the accountability of that structure and there are
:19:54. > :19:59.legitimate questions of whether you can do it better, but the most
:20:00. > :20:04.important issue is the independent judgment of the police are they
:20:04. > :20:09.authority to the law of the land and not an elected politician.
:20:09. > :20:12.Boris Johnson is the current commission that and he has
:20:12. > :20:17.demoralise the whole police force in London and put political
:20:17. > :20:21.intervention writing to the centre of police forcing in London.
:20:21. > :20:27.would hope to get the right people coming forward. Does it bother you
:20:27. > :20:34.that when we asked the candidates to name the Chief Constable, two of
:20:34. > :20:42.the four couldn't do it? Unsurprised by that, but I think
:20:42. > :20:48.this is a new election system for a new role. It is a huge improvement
:20:48. > :20:52.from what we had before. We previously had authorities in local
:20:52. > :20:57.areas which are 17 appointed local councillors, no one has known who
:20:57. > :21:02.they are all attended meetings and not known he to speak to if they
:21:02. > :21:06.had a problem. Perhaps they could make a suggestion on improving. I
:21:06. > :21:11.think that in future this will be a real step forward for local
:21:11. > :21:21.communities that they have someone who will champion their concerns.
:21:21. > :21:29.Is this to mark a sea in action? -- democracy in action. There could be
:21:29. > :21:34.massive confusion over who could run or not run. And direct
:21:34. > :21:37.intervention by political parties in the process for what is
:21:38. > :21:42.supposedly independent state of affairs. I think it has been
:21:42. > :21:46.extremely badly organised. I don't think this is a good idea because
:21:46. > :21:50.democracy is about information and knowing things. I did not know that
:21:50. > :21:55.account that you just mentioned. I think that is truly shocking and a
:21:55. > :22:02.symptom of how these elections have been organised. Thank you both very
:22:02. > :22:05.much. Let's give you an idea of the chief
:22:05. > :22:10.constables and the counties that their working. We will start with
:22:10. > :22:14.Essex which is the biggest force in Essex which is the biggest force in
:22:14. > :22:19.the region. As you can see, we have about 3000 officers and a
:22:19. > :22:24.population of about 1.7 million. Of course it is a commuter county, it
:22:24. > :22:32.has to ports and to airports. Suffolk, on the other hand, is more
:22:32. > :22:36.rural. Almost 1200 officers serving a population of about 700,000.
:22:36. > :22:44.Priority is there include capping prostitution in the wake of the
:22:44. > :22:49.murders of five sex workers' backing 2006. In Norfolk we have
:22:49. > :22:52.about 1500 officers looking after 850,000 people. According to the
:22:52. > :22:56.Home Office, it is the safest Home Office, it is the safest
:22:56. > :23:00.county in England. If you want more details of the people standing to
:23:00. > :23:08.become the police and crime commissioner in your area please go
:23:08. > :23:12.to the website. From all of us here, good night.
:23:12. > :23:16.They are 100 and nothing to do candidates standing in these
:23:16. > :23:21.elections. Each has to release a statement about what they want to
:23:21. > :23:25.achieve. We have all of them here. Some mention no military background,
:23:26. > :23:30.some talk about their former role with the police authority and here
:23:30. > :23:39.are the actual words they use. The bigger they are, the more they
:23:39. > :23:45.commonly appear. Crime, hundreds of mentions. Out of 55,000 words, only
:23:45. > :23:53.30 uses of the word alcohol. Is that the right emphasis? One phrase
:23:53. > :23:58.that is quite common is anti-social behaviour. That is the sort of
:23:58. > :24:04.everyday low level nuisance crime that so many of us suffer from.
:24:04. > :24:08.Ashley did suffer terribly from it before. Also you even got to the
:24:08. > :24:16.stage are setting up a CCTV camera. We will have a look at that footage
:24:16. > :24:22.now. Talk us through it, a guy in lobbing stones. Own controllable.
:24:22. > :24:30.We kept going to court and trying to get him evicted. In the end life
:24:30. > :24:36.problem is the police do seem to be, they are not proactive, they are
:24:36. > :24:41.reactive. A crime would happen and they can't do that anymore. Pity
:24:41. > :24:46.you think the police crime commissioner would galvanise them?
:24:46. > :24:50.In principle it is a good idea to have someone independent because
:24:50. > :24:55.authorities mark their own homework all the time. I don't think they
:24:55. > :24:59.have enough powers. I think they need more power to audit cases. As
:24:59. > :25:04.soon as the case has gone on for a year, they look at case management
:25:04. > :25:08.and what is going wrong with it. They start to get other people to
:25:08. > :25:15.look at what is going on. This is not just about budgets, it is about
:25:15. > :25:25.understanding what is going wrong, why things are ineffectual? Way
:25:25. > :25:29.numerous crimes are committed and people are not caught. This appears
:25:29. > :25:36.an issue for year, not enough power? There's a certain amount of
:25:36. > :25:41.flexibility, isn't there? I am not sure they need more power. I think
:25:41. > :25:44.their job is to identify policing needs and to deal with their chief
:25:44. > :25:49.constables and the voluntary organisations and the victims'
:25:49. > :25:55.groups, to meet policing needs. I don't think any power, they need
:25:55. > :25:59.leadership. I totally disagree because the whole problem is, when
:25:59. > :26:03.you get beneath the surface of what one chief constable says and all
:26:03. > :26:09.the other people that fob you off, you need to get to the very basics
:26:09. > :26:12.of why that cases such a problem. They need to go in and look at the
:26:12. > :26:19.case management, he is doing what, why the evidence collection is not
:26:19. > :26:26.good enough or why you are having multiple crimes in areas over and
:26:26. > :26:31.over again and no one actually does anything. Will a man or woman who
:26:31. > :26:37.would be successful could say, right, I will do this for years,
:26:37. > :26:41.and they will get elected. can't have the same mistake, saying
:26:41. > :26:49.streets targeted time after time. Anyone who is any good will have a
:26:49. > :26:56.map on his wall and will no weekly... All her walk... And will
:26:56. > :27:02.know it what happens. There will come in and say, why have we got
:27:02. > :27:12.another burglary or whatever on this estate? That is quite a
:27:12. > :27:19.different story. This is a key point that some have raised. What
:27:19. > :27:24.if nobody votes there. You are former gang member helping people
:27:24. > :27:28.get out of gangs now. People affected by gangs do not live in
:27:28. > :27:34.the leafy areas which voting these elections so are you going to be
:27:34. > :27:40.listened to? The they you go. This is what I fill the danger is in the
:27:40. > :27:45.community is that people don't know how to communicate with people in
:27:45. > :27:50.these communities. It can't be just A1 of thing where after six months
:27:50. > :27:54.no one knows who to go to. T think someone will say they will help you
:27:54. > :28:00.or do you think they will get those from elsewhere with populist
:28:00. > :28:05.messages? If there is support within the communities, they will
:28:05. > :28:09.want to help and want to change the community. If they don't know how,
:28:09. > :28:13.then needs to beat someone there that they can actually go to and
:28:13. > :28:19.speak to to try and get these issues tackled. T think they could
:28:19. > :28:23.get tackled with these police and crime commissioners? Definitely. I
:28:23. > :28:28.think the more we come together as a collective, the more we will
:28:28. > :28:34.solve the problem. Thank you all very much. That is just half-an-
:28:34. > :28:38.hour. On the radio you can hear the sighs of some of these issues. If
:28:38. > :28:44.you want to know more about the candidates, BBC Radio will be