:00:14. > :00:18.Everyone's got a view on how the streets should be policed,
:00:18. > :00:22.crackdown on anti-social behaviour, more bobbies on the beat.
:00:22. > :00:31.Well, in just over a week as time, the way the police operate will
:00:31. > :00:34.change forever. That's when we elect brand new
:00:34. > :00:38.police and crime commissioners, through them we will get a chance
:00:38. > :00:42.to decide how the police deal with everything, from under-age drinking,
:00:42. > :00:47.graffiti, right through to gun crime. Tonight we're going to
:00:47. > :00:57.explain the idea, look at how it might work, and discuss the issues
:00:57. > :01:06.
:01:06. > :01:09.that affect you. This is Police Elections Time To Choose.
:01:09. > :01:13.Millions of us, across England and Wales, are being given a choice.
:01:13. > :01:18.Who do we want to be our police and crime commissioner? Who do we want
:01:18. > :01:22.to decide the strategy for how safe our streets are, to look after
:01:22. > :01:26.victims. Why should we go to the polls next week on a cold November
:01:26. > :01:31.night in these controversial elections? Well, the new police and
:01:31. > :01:35.crime commissioners really make a difference. And, what effect will
:01:36. > :01:39.the changes have where you live? Tonight, we will be looking at what
:01:39. > :01:44.these police elections mean for all of us.
:01:44. > :01:47.In the south west we will be on the frontline with the biggest police
:01:47. > :01:51.force, they tackle anti-social behaviour in urban areas, and the
:01:51. > :01:54.challenge of policing in the countryed side. We will debate the
:01:54. > :01:58.new priorities of the Police Commissioner, with Victim Support
:01:58. > :02:03.and neighbourhood watch and a former senior police officer.
:02:03. > :02:05.So, in the next half hour, we are going to be looking at what
:02:06. > :02:09.difference these new police commissioners are going to make.
:02:09. > :02:15.And later in the programme, we willing asking, are the crop of
:02:15. > :02:24.candidates out there going in the right direction. Guests tonight
:02:24. > :02:33.include Shami Charabati, who thinks it is a disastrous move. And the
:02:33. > :02:39.man who designed the plan. What will they be responsible for? For a
:02:39. > :02:46.start they can hire and fire, and a five year-year policing plan, and a
:02:46. > :02:51.budget, and regularly consult us on the streets. And may influence the
:02:51. > :02:58.courts. These characters will be managing
:02:58. > :03:01.multimillion pound organisations. And developing a plan that covers a
:03:01. > :03:07.population of millions, all within one police force area. We have been
:03:07. > :03:11.trying to find out just what the job is all about.
:03:11. > :03:17.The police have to manage all types of crime, whether that's violent
:03:17. > :03:20.crime in the city, or anti-social behaviour in the countryside. The
:03:20. > :03:24.Government's advertising campaign is hard-hitting, butt police and
:03:24. > :03:28.crime commissioner will have to tap into people's every day concerns.
:03:28. > :03:33.The gangs that hang around, especially in the park. The police
:03:33. > :03:37.doing speed tests, the trench of road I live they use it like a
:03:37. > :03:41.motorway. More police, more wardens on the beach. The crime
:03:41. > :03:44.commissioner's job is to listen to the public, and in the run up to
:03:44. > :03:48.the elections, the candidates are out making their promises to win
:03:48. > :03:54.votes. Once in office, they may discover just how complex policing
:03:54. > :04:01.is with conflicting demands. Here in Middlesborough, anti-social
:04:01. > :04:05.behaviour takes up most police time. Ron has suffered ten years of abuse,
:04:05. > :04:12.including two petrol bomb attack on his home. He knows exactly what he
:04:12. > :04:15.wants from the new police and crime commissioner.They Need to sort
:04:15. > :04:18.these estate out, more police on the beat, without that people will
:04:18. > :04:23.suffer more. We need to target the people who are causing the trouble
:04:23. > :04:28.within the communities. Police on the beat may reassure
:04:28. > :04:33.people their communities are safe. But deploying them everywhere, all
:04:33. > :04:37.the time, is impossible. Different crimes need different policing.
:04:37. > :04:42.Take North Yorkshire, where crime is relatively low. Bobbies on the
:04:42. > :04:46.beat aren't exactly a priority. But recently, the village Post Office
:04:46. > :04:51.had its cash machine stolen. So people round here still want their
:04:51. > :04:54.fair share of policing. Two doors down from the Post Office, Karen's
:04:54. > :05:04.property has been broken into twice. She's concerned that rural areas
:05:04. > :05:08.
:05:08. > :05:11.will be overlooked by the new police and crime commissioner.
:05:11. > :05:16.concern is the new Police Commissioner will think that petty
:05:16. > :05:20.crime doesn't matter. But it does, especially in the rural areas. If
:05:20. > :05:25.someone takes your trailer or bike, or they break into your sheds, it
:05:25. > :05:29.kos affect those people. We pay our taxes too, and we matter. It is up
:05:29. > :05:33.to the crime commissioner to listen, and deliver policing relevant to
:05:33. > :05:37.you, and do it with limited resources. But that's not the only
:05:37. > :05:40.challenge. There is the tricky issue of personalities. The new
:05:41. > :05:45.crime commissioner will set the priorities for a Chief Constable.
:05:45. > :05:52.How will they get on, and can they agree on how to achieve what the
:05:53. > :05:56.public wants to see? A reduction in crime.
:05:56. > :06:00.Keith Halliwell is a former Chief Constable, I knows how tough that
:06:00. > :06:04.job is. But he thinks the new job of the Police and Crime
:06:04. > :06:07.Commissioner will be even harder. It is enormously challenges, the
:06:07. > :06:13.individual will need to understand the Police Service, and need to
:06:13. > :06:16.have a lot of political nouse. And need to know how to run an enormous
:06:16. > :06:20.organisation, and have the confidence of the public and media.
:06:20. > :06:25.It is a virtually impossible task for any individual to do that.
:06:25. > :06:27.Strong words there from Keith Halliwell a virtually impossible
:06:28. > :06:31.task for any one individual? don't think that is right. He's
:06:31. > :06:36.talking about managing the police force. The Chief Constable will
:06:36. > :06:40.manage the police force. The PCC is not managing, he's a leader, he's a
:06:40. > :06:43.political leader. He will look at decisions about priorities, he will
:06:43. > :06:47.try to identify policing needs. But he's not going to be managing the
:06:47. > :06:50.force on a day-to-day basis. There is a management team, there is a
:06:50. > :06:54.Chief Constable, there are assistants, they have been trained
:06:54. > :06:57.for, that they are paid for that. That is their job. He's not going,
:06:57. > :07:02.there is, at the beginning of this programme there was a lot about ING
:07:02. > :07:05.chaing police operation. This is not going to affect police
:07:05. > :07:10.operation, except if the Chief Constable wants them to change.
:07:10. > :07:13.It's about priorities, it is about focusing on people's needs,
:07:13. > :07:17.identifying those needs, and making sure the Chief Constable meets them.
:07:17. > :07:21.It is power to the people? It is not, it is power to another elected
:07:21. > :07:25.politician. I think we have seen too much political interference in
:07:25. > :07:29.policing, and in law and order in recent years already. This is more
:07:29. > :07:33.democracy, how can you argue against that? Democracy isn't just
:07:33. > :07:36.about having elections, and elected politicians aren't the only people
:07:36. > :07:40.with authority in a democracy S you also have to have the rule of law.
:07:40. > :07:45.Of course politicians set the laws, they decide what the police powers
:07:45. > :07:49.are, what the crimes are. Then you need independent professionals, who
:07:49. > :07:54.serve the whole community, whether they vote or they don't, young, old,
:07:54. > :07:59.minorities as well as popular majorities. I'm worried that this
:07:59. > :08:05.charismatic local politician, if that's who he is, will, it will
:08:05. > :08:09.normally be a "he", rather than a police authority. There are
:08:09. > :08:13.relatively few females standing? I'm worried this politician will
:08:13. > :08:17.look for the headlines and the popular causes and not serving the
:08:17. > :08:21.tough needs of the entire community. No matter how vulnerable they are.
:08:21. > :08:26.I don't agree, I think Members of Parliament serve the whole of their
:08:26. > :08:33.communities, when they are elected. I think the mayor serves the whole
:08:33. > :08:36.of the community of London. I don't think we need to worry about PCCs
:08:36. > :08:40.neglecting bits of their communities. The public want the
:08:40. > :08:44.law to be administered with an even hand, they don't want the judges to
:08:44. > :08:47.be elected or the police chiefs. Police chiefs won't be elected.
:08:47. > :08:52.polled the public last year about whether they wanted the new system
:08:52. > :08:56.or preferred the existing system, with the Chief Constable and a
:08:56. > :09:01.broader Police Authority, and 65%, this is a YouGov poll, of the
:09:01. > :09:04.people we polled, said they would rather stick with the status quo.
:09:04. > :09:07.Only 15% thought they would trust the elected politician over the
:09:07. > :09:10.Chief Constable under the existing system. You are actually on the
:09:10. > :09:14.record as saying it may well be a very low turn out. You accept that,
:09:14. > :09:18.from next week. You have also said that people don't yet understand
:09:18. > :09:21.the concept of this role in one individual's hands, and you are
:09:22. > :09:24.saying, actually, it is the elections after this one that are
:09:24. > :09:31.going to be really significant. So what are the next four years going
:09:31. > :09:35.to be a pilot? No, the next four years are a period when the PCC s
:09:35. > :09:39.begin to make a difference in their communities, and members of those
:09:39. > :09:44.communities begin to realise that this PCC is someone who can make a
:09:44. > :09:48.difference to their lives. And suddenly, you will find, where as
:09:48. > :09:54.now people have never heard of PCCs, they regard crime as something that
:09:54. > :09:57.is done to them, not something they can control. But if he's not going
:09:57. > :10:02.to interfere in policing, what is the great transformation he will do
:10:02. > :10:06.in people's lives. You can't have it both ways. I believe in
:10:06. > :10:10.inspirational leadership, I believe a PCC can get a better, more
:10:10. > :10:13.effective police force, by inspiring and leading and
:10:13. > :10:17.supporting the Chief Constable. I don't see this as a conflict
:10:17. > :10:27.between the Chief Constable. Let's talk about the practical and one of
:10:27. > :10:27.
:10:27. > :10:32.the biggest police cover-ups, if not the biggest, in criminal
:10:32. > :10:35.history, Hillsborough, general, you lost your two lovely sons. If you
:10:35. > :10:39.had a Police and Crime Commissioner, answerable to people like yourself,
:10:39. > :10:45.would you have felt voiceless for so long? The current system doesn't
:10:45. > :10:49.seem to have worked for us. Some of the decisions that the local police
:10:49. > :10:56.authorities are not making haven't worked for us. Certain people
:10:56. > :10:58.should have been suspended, because of allegations about them. It just
:10:58. > :11:01.didn't happen. You think a Police and Crime Commissioner, because
:11:01. > :11:05.he's answerable to people, and can get kicked out after four years,
:11:05. > :11:10.that would have been a better situation for you? I would hope so,
:11:10. > :11:15.I would hope there would be more transparency. That there would be
:11:15. > :11:21.more accountability from them bass they were elected. You're a former
:11:21. > :11:25.top cop yourself, more transparency, more accountability, this a real
:11:25. > :11:27.possibility? I think it depend. Politicians are not unknown for
:11:27. > :11:30.deciding not to open up and be transparent, just before an
:11:30. > :11:33.election. I don't think it is a given that would necessarily happen.
:11:33. > :11:37.You would have to have other leaders to resolve the type of
:11:37. > :11:43.situation that resolves around Hillsborough. And there are one or
:11:43. > :11:47.two facet of the new role, notably, I mean the police authorities for
:11:47. > :11:49.all their flaws do meet in open public meetings, not with a huge
:11:49. > :11:52.audience present, because they are not wildly interesting for many.
:11:52. > :11:56.They are, at least, a public meeting. Most of the decisions
:11:56. > :12:00.taken between a chief and a Police and Crime Commissioner, will be
:12:00. > :12:04.taken in a room with a cup of coffee, on their own. Some, some of
:12:04. > :12:08.that decision-making in public, might go. And there is a really big
:12:08. > :12:11.onus on the individuals that take on this role, to make sure that the
:12:11. > :12:17.public transparently see the decisions being taken, and they are
:12:17. > :12:23.not just done, in what used to be called, smoke-filled rooms.
:12:23. > :12:25.could get horrendous personality clashes so? That is a distinct
:12:26. > :12:32.possibility. Most people want to see the relationship work, that
:12:32. > :12:35.would be unlikely to happen. Jenny? I can hear what you are saying. I
:12:35. > :12:39.didn't realise that it wouldn't be in an open forum, the decisions
:12:39. > :12:44.would be made. So that's quite worrying. That's not good for
:12:44. > :12:49.transparency, is it. However, I come back to the accountability, of
:12:49. > :12:51.being elected, by the public. agree that there should be
:12:51. > :12:55.accountability, and what happened with Hillsborough is one of the
:12:55. > :12:59.greatest policing scandals of my lifetime. But the police there
:12:59. > :13:02.should have been accountable to the law. And I'm not sure, we have had
:13:02. > :13:08.generation of elected politicians. It was people-power, ultimately,
:13:08. > :13:11.that forced change here. And isn't this an expression of democratic
:13:11. > :13:16.will? Generations of elected politicians, home secretaries, and
:13:16. > :13:19.others, who didn't deal with this situation. Are you concerned that
:13:19. > :13:23.the Police and Crime Commissioner, just may not share your liberal
:13:23. > :13:27.agenda? Not at all. This is a constitutional point that I'm
:13:27. > :13:30.making, it is not about a liberal agenda, or another agenda, it is
:13:30. > :13:33.about saying that you need checks and balances in a democracy, and
:13:33. > :13:38.you need independent people as well as political people. And I would no
:13:38. > :13:41.more have an elected judge, if you have elected judge, by the way,
:13:41. > :13:45.Barabbas always walks free. If you put policing in the hands of
:13:45. > :13:49.elected politicians too, they don't necessarily serve the whole
:13:49. > :13:56.community, just the most popular bits. Brief final comment here?
:13:56. > :13:59.see it completely differently, this is a job which relates to, which
:13:59. > :14:05.concerns, the allegation of scarce resores. We have always known that
:14:05. > :14:09.is a role for politicians, policing needs are ininfinite, policing
:14:09. > :14:12.resources very -- infinite, policing resources not. Is it a
:14:13. > :14:16.Chief Constable that makes that decision or a freely elected PCC,
:14:16. > :14:21.who has to defend his actions at the polls. And every day, by the
:14:21. > :14:27.way, the local media will ensure this is transparent. Thank you all
:14:27. > :14:29.very much for now. Later, we will be looking at what
:14:29. > :14:33.the candidates themselves say they are going to do if they are elect.
:14:33. > :14:43.What their priorities are. These commissioners are going to have a
:14:43. > :14:45.
:14:45. > :14:49.huge effect on where you live. Policing the south west has
:14:49. > :14:52.significant challenges, it is a huge geographical area, with large,
:14:52. > :14:55.urban centre, and scattered rural communities. In the summer the
:14:55. > :14:59.population increase dramatically, putting extra pressure on policing.
:14:59. > :15:04.In the largest of our three force areas, Devon and Cornwall, crime
:15:04. > :15:08.has been rising, but, as with all forces, police budgets and numbers
:15:08. > :15:11.they are being cut. In a moment we will be talking to a former senior
:15:11. > :15:15.officer, and representatives for victims and neighbourhoods, about
:15:15. > :15:19.the priorities for the new commissioner, for Dorset, Avon and
:15:19. > :15:24.Somerset and Devon and Cornwall. First, Simon Hall has been to see
:15:24. > :15:27.policing on the frontline. Anti-social behaviour is one of the
:15:27. > :15:33.biggest call on police time. It is a great concern for communities and
:15:33. > :15:38.will be a key issue for the commissioner. Here, complaints from
:15:38. > :15:45.neighbour of a teenage party in Plymouth, that has got out of hand.
:15:45. > :15:50.16, 17, 18, 19, 20. 20 were invited and it was advertised on Facebook.
:15:51. > :15:54.Good evening. 24, 25. Around 100 young people turned up, most with
:15:54. > :16:00.alcohol. It is a familiar problem here, and unsettling for neighbours.
:16:00. > :16:03.It makes you feel uncomfortable in your own home, you want to chill
:16:03. > :16:07.out for the evening, you have kids next door, and hearing music.
:16:07. > :16:13.safe in your own home. We don't know who is hanging around outside.
:16:13. > :16:19.You are a bit uneasy. Move along for me, don't hang
:16:19. > :16:23.around in alleyways. This is one facet of policing in the south west.
:16:23. > :16:27.One. Of the greatest challenges for the new commissioner in Devon and
:16:27. > :16:32.Cornwall, is the sheer size of the two counties, they make up the
:16:32. > :16:36.biggest police force area in England and Wales. That means
:16:36. > :16:39.balancing the competing demands of cities and towns, with those of the
:16:39. > :16:44.great stretches of countryside. At the heart of Devon, Dartmoor is
:16:44. > :16:49.often seen as a haven of rural tranquility. But the moor suffers
:16:49. > :16:53.crime of its own, and people here feel they sometimes lose out in
:16:53. > :16:58.policing priorities. Colin Able has had hundred of his stock stolen,
:16:58. > :17:02.along with farm machinery, he hopes for more policing under the new
:17:02. > :17:06.commissioner. As long as they do listen and implement on things.
:17:06. > :17:11.With all the bugetry constraints that the country is in, will they
:17:11. > :17:14.have the money in to help us out with the new ideas. These crimes
:17:14. > :17:19.have been going on for years. in the night life of the city, the
:17:19. > :17:23.issue this time is alcohol. Another significant one, for the in coming
:17:23. > :17:27.commissioner. Many will be the demands upon them, the question is
:17:27. > :17:31.whether they can deliver. Joining me now is former senior police
:17:31. > :17:38.officer, Barry Frost, also with us from Victim Support in the south
:17:38. > :17:42.west is Georgie Constable. And from neighbourhood watch we have Julie
:17:42. > :17:45.Doubton. We saw the police on frontline, operationally the Chief
:17:45. > :17:49.Constable will remain in charge, how do you see the relationship
:17:49. > :17:52.working between the Chief Constable and the new crime commissioner?
:17:53. > :17:56.have ten candidates in Devon and Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly,
:17:56. > :18:01.and from the list you have some with a police background, some with
:18:01. > :18:05.none whatsoever. I think those that have no police experience will soon
:18:05. > :18:07.realise that policing is extremely complex. One of the first roles
:18:07. > :18:10.they have to do is prioritise the things they want the Chief
:18:10. > :18:12.Constable and force to do. Clearly there will have to be a
:18:12. > :18:16.relationship established very quickly between the two of them.
:18:16. > :18:20.But I actually think, once the commissioner is bedded down and
:18:20. > :18:24.seen the complexity and reality of police, that they will work well,
:18:24. > :18:28.with the Chief Constable. Georgie Constable, in terms of how they
:18:28. > :18:33.deal with victim, there has been improvement with Devon and Cornwall
:18:33. > :18:36.with the feedback victims of crime get. What would you like to see the
:18:36. > :18:41.new Police and Crime Commissioner to on behalf of victimss? Whoever
:18:41. > :18:46.gets in does have a duty to consult with victims of crime. I think they
:18:46. > :18:49.need to turn that into action, and make sure that victims aren't lost
:18:49. > :18:52.in the criminal justice system. Sometimes they can be. You have
:18:52. > :18:55.been talking to so. Candidates, are you getting a sense that they
:18:55. > :18:58.understand that victim, from your point of view, need to be at the
:18:58. > :19:01.heart of their plan for policing? think some of them do. I don't
:19:01. > :19:06.think all of them have the same level of understanding, because
:19:06. > :19:09.they are all very different people. As Barry has just said. All
:19:09. > :19:14.different experience, and knowledge. I think they are growing as they go
:19:14. > :19:16.through the campaign. I saw lots of them earlier on, they are very
:19:16. > :19:19.different now than they were five week ago.
:19:19. > :19:23.A lot of the candidate I have spoken to have said they want to
:19:23. > :19:26.use for special, that they want to use neighbourhood watch groups more
:19:26. > :19:30.to increase the presence of policing in communities. What role
:19:30. > :19:34.would you like to see neighbourhood watch play, and what sort of
:19:34. > :19:37.support would you like to see from the Police and Crime Commissioner?
:19:37. > :19:43.What we are hoping to see from the Police and Crime Commissioner, that
:19:43. > :19:47.he or she is prepared to listen and to learn from the people out there
:19:47. > :19:51.on the streets, doing this every day. Neighbourhood watch is very
:19:51. > :20:01.important to communities, in crime prevention, community safety and
:20:01. > :20:02.
:20:02. > :20:05.quality of life. We hope this person will be prepared to talk to
:20:05. > :20:09.people on the ground and learn from our experience. The commissioner
:20:09. > :20:13.will have a certain pot of money to allocate with groups like your's.
:20:13. > :20:15.Is interest conflict with a group like George's, that you are
:20:16. > :20:19.competing for the small pot of money from the commissioner?
:20:19. > :20:22.don't, because a lot of the voluntary groups have got together,
:20:22. > :20:27.in the early stages of this, to talk about how this is going to
:20:27. > :20:32.work. And the last thing any of us want to do is to be fighting for a
:20:32. > :20:35.pot of money. Barry Frost, this is contentious in itself this role,
:20:35. > :20:39.because of the concern that politics will end up playing a
:20:39. > :20:41.major part in the way our Police Service is being run. What sort of
:20:41. > :20:46.feeling are you getting from current officers, people you speak
:20:46. > :20:51.to about the role and how it will work? I think from my contacts in
:20:51. > :20:54.the fore, I think there is a lot of cynicism around the process. I
:20:54. > :20:56.actually think the Police Authority do an awful lot of good work, I
:20:56. > :21:00.think a lot of police officers don't actually understand what the
:21:00. > :21:04.Police Authority do, or who they are. Where as with the Police
:21:05. > :21:08.Commissioner, like it or not, we are here debating it already.
:21:09. > :21:12.Georgie Constable, from a victim's point of view, do you think the
:21:12. > :21:15.role will provide some benefit, that victims will have someone at
:21:15. > :21:19.the stop of the chain that will be publicly accountable? -- at the top
:21:19. > :21:23.of the chain that will be publicly accountable? Absolutely, it is
:21:23. > :21:27.always nice to see they have some duties set in statute that they
:21:27. > :21:30.will have to follow through. We have been talking about the role
:21:30. > :21:34.victims need to play in the criminal justice service and the
:21:34. > :21:38.role they will have. What about Neighbourhood Watch groups, what do
:21:38. > :21:41.they feel about having the publicly accountable elected person on the
:21:41. > :21:48.top of policing? To be Hon he is, I don't know, it is early stages yet.
:21:48. > :21:54.We are yet to see how it is going to pan out. But, I think that the
:21:54. > :21:59.majority of Neighbourhood Watch work very well with the police. We
:21:59. > :22:04.have good partnerships in place with other agencies as well. We
:22:04. > :22:07.don't want too much interference in it, if it isn't broke don't
:22:07. > :22:11.interfere in something that is working extremely well. You are yet
:22:11. > :22:13.to be convinced this is a good idea? Yes, indeed, that is what we
:22:13. > :22:17.are hearing from our members. They don't know who to vote for, they
:22:17. > :22:21.don't know who the candidates are. They are very much relying on the
:22:21. > :22:24.TV, radio and press to let them know. That is the important thing,
:22:24. > :22:29.there is a concern that whoever is elected is elected on a very small
:22:29. > :22:35.turnout, with a very low mandate to do anything? Almost blind in some
:22:36. > :22:42.respects. I actually think sometimes the next time the post is
:22:42. > :22:46.up for grab, the public will have a better idea of what the role
:22:46. > :22:49.encompass, because they will see it in operation. We have a duty to
:22:49. > :22:52.talk to those we come in contact about it before they go out and
:22:52. > :22:56.vote. If we don't, we can't complain about the Police
:22:56. > :23:00.Commissioner we get, as with any election. Thank you for joining us.
:23:00. > :23:09.The debate continues tomorrow in a special programme on your BBC local
:23:09. > :23:14.radio station from 9.00pm. There are 193 candidates standing
:23:14. > :23:20.in these election, and each has to produce a statement about what they
:23:20. > :23:22.want to achieve. I have got all of them here. Some mention their
:23:22. > :23:27.military backgrounds, some talk about their former role with the
:23:27. > :23:33.Police Authority, and here are the actual words they use most often.
:23:33. > :23:40.The bigger they are, the more they commonly appear. "crime", hundreds
:23:40. > :23:44.of references, 60 references to "drugs", out of 55,000 drugs, only
:23:44. > :23:50.30 use of the word "alcohol", when 40% of violent crime is fuelled by
:23:50. > :23:54.alcohol. Is that the right emphasis. One phrase very common is "anti-
:23:54. > :23:58.social behaviour", mentioned 70 times. That is the ever day, low-
:23:58. > :24:03.level nuisance crime that so many of us suffer from. You have
:24:03. > :24:08.suffered terribly from it? You have even got to the stage where you set
:24:08. > :24:14.up the CCTV camera, we are going to have a look at some of that footage,
:24:14. > :24:18.talk us through it, guys just lobbing stones at your car?
:24:18. > :24:23.Targeting us repeatedly, we kept going to court and trying to get
:24:23. > :24:27.them evicted. In the end, life became unbearable. I think the big
:24:27. > :24:31.problem is, the police do seem to be, they are not proactive any more.
:24:31. > :24:36.They were just reactive. A crime would happen, and you know, they
:24:36. > :24:39.can't do that any more. The police have to be...Do You think a Police
:24:39. > :24:43.and Crime Commissioner elected by the likes of yourself would
:24:43. > :24:46.galvanise them. In principle it is a really good idea that you have
:24:46. > :24:50.someone who is possibly independent. The authorities do mark their own
:24:50. > :24:54.homework all the time. But, I don't think they have enough powers. I
:24:55. > :24:58.think they need to have a lot more powers to audit case. As soon as a
:24:58. > :25:02.case has gone on for say a year, they look at the case management,
:25:02. > :25:04.it they look at what is going wrong with it. They start to get other
:25:04. > :25:07.people to look at what is going wrong. This is not just about
:25:07. > :25:12.policing and budgets and everything else. It is trying to understand
:25:13. > :25:15.what is going wrong, why things are ineffectual, why are numerous
:25:15. > :25:20.crimes committed against people, and the people aren't caught. Why
:25:20. > :25:30.are the prisons not sorting them out. The whole thing. Enough power,
:25:30. > :25:30.
:25:31. > :25:35.throw that out there. This is a googley for you, not enough power,
:25:35. > :25:38.flexible more, there is leg room for more powers to evolve? I don't
:25:38. > :25:41.think they need more power, their job is to identify policing needs
:25:41. > :25:45.and to deal with their Chief Constable, and the voluntary
:25:45. > :25:50.organisation, and the victims' groups, to meet the policing needs.
:25:50. > :25:54.I don't think they need power, I think they need leadership. Tell
:25:54. > :25:57.him what you think? I totally disagree, the whole problem is when
:25:57. > :26:00.you start getting beneath the surface of what one Chief Constable
:26:00. > :26:04.is saying and all the other people that are fobbing you off, you need
:26:05. > :26:08.to get to the very basics of why that case is such a problem. They
:26:08. > :26:13.needing to in and look at the case management, look at who is saying
:26:13. > :26:19.what, who is doing what, why is the evidence collection not good enough.
:26:19. > :26:22.Why are you having multiple crimes in areas, over and over again, the
:26:22. > :26:27.same people targeted, and no-one stopping the crime.
:26:27. > :26:31.The guy, or the woman who would be successful would go on to the
:26:32. > :26:37.estate and say I'm going to do this for you, and get elected? I think
:26:37. > :26:41.two points, one is, you can't have the same estate and street targeted
:26:41. > :26:48.time after time after time, anybody who is any good as a PCC will have
:26:48. > :26:52.a map on his wall, or her wall, and know weekly and daily where the
:26:52. > :26:58.crimes are. I have seen this, he will come in and say to the Chief
:26:58. > :27:03.Constable why have we got another burglary, or whatever, robbery, on
:27:04. > :27:07.this estate. What's happening. in nobody votes there. It is quite
:27:07. > :27:10.a different story from investigating a particular case.
:27:10. > :27:16.There was a key point been made, that some have raised, Chris you
:27:16. > :27:19.can come in here, not if nobody votes there. You are a former gang
:27:19. > :27:24.member and turned it around, and helping people out of gangs now.
:27:24. > :27:27.The people affected by gangs disproportionately, do not live in
:27:27. > :27:31.the leafy areas, which vote in these elections, are you going to
:27:31. > :27:35.be listened to? There you go, this is what I feel like the danger in
:27:35. > :27:38.the communities are, for how the people will be feel, in a sense,
:27:39. > :27:42.how will you communicate with these people in these communities, and if
:27:42. > :27:45.the commissioner is going to go down there, it can't be a one-off
:27:45. > :27:48.thing, after six months nobody knows who to go to. Do you think
:27:48. > :27:52.somebody standing is going to stand up and say I'm going to help you
:27:52. > :27:55.people, or will they get votes elsewhere, where perhaps more
:27:55. > :27:59.obviously populist messages? think comes down to, if there is
:27:59. > :28:03.support within the community, then the communities are want to help,
:28:03. > :28:07.change their community, they will want to help. If they don't know
:28:07. > :28:12.how to do that. There needs to be a youth worker or someone there that
:28:12. > :28:14.they have to speak to on a regular basis to try to get the issues
:28:15. > :28:18.tackled. Could they get tackled with the police and crime
:28:18. > :28:21.commissioners? Definitely, there needs more communication, with the
:28:21. > :28:26.young people and the communities, the more and more we come together
:28:26. > :28:29.as a collective the more we will involve the problem, it is not a
:28:29. > :28:33.one-side issue. That is just half an house already you can see the
:28:34. > :28:39.sides of some of the issues we are talking about. If you want to hear
:28:39. > :28:43.from the candidates themselves, BBC radio from across England will hold