:00:14. > :00:19.Everyone has got everyone how the streets should be policed Foster up
:00:19. > :00:26.more bobbies on the beat. In just over a week's time the way the
:00:26. > :00:31.police operate were changed for ever faster -- will change ever.
:00:31. > :00:36.That is when we elect new Police and Crime Commissioners are through
:00:36. > :00:39.their we will have a chance to decide how the police deal with
:00:39. > :00:43.everything from under-aged drinking, and graffiti right through to gun
:00:43. > :00:49.crime. We're going to explain the idea, look at how it might work and
:00:49. > :00:59.discuss the issues that affect you. This is police elections, time to
:00:59. > :01:08.
:01:08. > :01:11.Millions of us across England and Wales are being given a choice. Who
:01:11. > :01:16.do you want to be our police and crime Commissioner? Could do we
:01:16. > :01:20.want to decide the strategy for has saved our streets are, to deal with
:01:20. > :01:23.victims. Why should we go to the polls next week and a cold November
:01:23. > :01:30.night in these controversial elections? Then you Police and
:01:30. > :01:33.Crime Commissioners really make a difference? What effect will the
:01:33. > :01:39.changes have way you have? We will be looking at what these police
:01:39. > :01:44.elections mean for all of us. He and the West Midlands, I will be
:01:45. > :01:47.finding out what people think of crime and the police. I will be
:01:47. > :01:54.hearing the sorts of things they would like these new commissioners
:01:54. > :01:57.to tackle once they have been elected.
:01:57. > :02:01.In the next half-an-hour we're going to be looking at what
:02:01. > :02:04.difference these new police commissioners are going to make and
:02:04. > :02:10.laze in the programme we will be asking at the crop of candidates
:02:10. > :02:15.out there going in the right direction. Guests tonight include
:02:15. > :02:20.Shami Chakrabarti who thinks it is a disastrous idea. Lord Wasserman,
:02:20. > :02:25.who helped to design the plan, is here. But what will these police
:02:25. > :02:28.commissioners be responsible for? They will be able to hire and fire
:02:28. > :02:32.a chief constable. They have to deliver a five-year police and
:02:32. > :02:36.crime plan and come up with the Budget. They will have to regularly
:02:36. > :02:40.consults us about the way the police our streets and they might
:02:40. > :02:46.also be able to extend their influence into have justice is
:02:46. > :02:49.administered through the courts. These characters will be managing
:02:49. > :02:55.multi-million-pound organisations and developing a plan that covers
:02:55. > :03:02.populations of millions. It is a huge task. Riz Lateef has been
:03:02. > :03:06.trying to find out what sort of things they will be doing.
:03:06. > :03:11.The police have to manage all types of crime whether that is violent
:03:11. > :03:14.crime are the city or anti-social behaviour in the countryside. The
:03:14. > :03:19.government's advertising campaign is hard-hitting but then you police
:03:19. > :03:28.and crime commissioner will have to tap into people's everyday concerns.
:03:28. > :03:33.The gangs that hang around especially the part. More police.
:03:33. > :03:36.The crime commissioner's job is to listen to the public and in the
:03:36. > :03:41.run-up to the elections of candidates -- the candidates are
:03:41. > :03:46.out making their promises. Once in office they may discover just how
:03:47. > :03:50.complex policing is with conflicting demands.
:03:50. > :03:57.Here in Middlesbrough anti-social behaviour takes up most police time.
:03:57. > :04:01.Hello. This man has suffered 10 years of abuse including two petrol
:04:01. > :04:07.bomb attacks on his home. He knows exactly what he wants from the new
:04:07. > :04:11.police and crime commissioner. -- Police and Crime Commissioner.
:04:11. > :04:18.need more police on the beat otherwise people will suffer more.
:04:18. > :04:22.We need to target the people. Police on the beat may reassure
:04:22. > :04:29.people their communities are safe but deploying them everywhere all
:04:29. > :04:33.the time is impossible. Different crimes need different policing.
:04:33. > :04:37.Crime here is relatively low. Bobbies on the beat aren't exactly
:04:37. > :04:42.a priority. Recently the village post office had its cash machine
:04:42. > :04:47.stolen so people around here still wants their fair share of policing.
:04:47. > :04:52.Two doors down from the police office, this property has been
:04:52. > :04:58.broken into twice. They are concerned are rule let us went
:04:58. > :05:02.rural areas will be overlooked. -- they are concerns in rural areas
:05:02. > :05:08.will be overlooked. They might think petty crime does not matter
:05:08. > :05:12.but it does matter to people especially in rural areas. If
:05:12. > :05:18.somebody takes your trailer or your bike or they break into your sheds,
:05:18. > :05:22.it does affect those people and we pay our taxes as well. We matter.
:05:22. > :05:27.It is up to the crime Commissioner to listen and deliver policing
:05:27. > :05:31.relevant to you. They need to do it with limited resources but that is
:05:31. > :05:35.not the only challenge. There is the issue of personalities. The new
:05:35. > :05:40.crime commissioner was set the priorities for a chief constable.
:05:40. > :05:46.How will they get on and can they agree on how to achieve what the
:05:46. > :05:50.public wants to see? A reduction in crime. This man is a former chief
:05:50. > :05:55.constable. He knows how tough that job is. He thinks the job of the
:05:55. > :05:59.new police and crime Commissioner - - Police and Crime Commissioner
:05:59. > :06:04.will be harder. The individual will have to understand the police
:06:04. > :06:07.service and have a lot of political nous. They won the to know how to
:06:07. > :06:14.run an enormous organisation and they will have to have the
:06:14. > :06:22.confidence of the public and media. It is an impossible task. Strong
:06:22. > :06:27.burr -- words there. A virtually impossible task.
:06:27. > :06:33.He is talking about managing the police force. The chief constable
:06:33. > :06:38.will manage the police force. The PCCs will look at decisions about
:06:38. > :06:43.priorities. They will try to identify policing needs. He is not
:06:43. > :06:50.going to be managing the force and a day-to-day basis. There is a
:06:50. > :06:56.chief constable their, their assistants. They are paid for that.
:06:56. > :07:00.There's a lot about changing police operations, this is not going to
:07:00. > :07:06.change police operations unless the Chief Constable wants them to
:07:06. > :07:10.change. It is about priorities, it is about focusing on people's needs
:07:10. > :07:19.to and making sure the Chief Constable meets them. It is power
:07:19. > :07:25.to the people. It is not, it is power to another elected politician.
:07:25. > :07:30.This is more democracy. Democracy isn't just about having elections.
:07:30. > :07:34.An elected politician isn't the only person with authority. You
:07:34. > :07:39.have to have the rule of law. Politician said the laws, they
:07:39. > :07:42.decide what the police powers are but then you need independent
:07:42. > :07:48.professionals who serve the whole community whether they vote or
:07:48. > :07:52.don't. Young, old, minorities as well as popular majorities. I am
:07:52. > :07:56.worried his charismatic local politician, if that is who he is,
:07:56. > :08:01.and it will be he rather than a police authority that is more
:08:01. > :08:04.diverse. They are very few female standing for so up I'm wedded his
:08:05. > :08:14.politician is looking for the headlines and the popular courses.
:08:15. > :08:15.
:08:15. > :08:17.I am wedded. I just don't agree. Members of
:08:17. > :08:22.Parliament serve the whole of their communities when they are elected.
:08:22. > :08:28.I think the mayor serves of the whole community of London. I don't
:08:28. > :08:36.think we need to worry about PCCs neglecting part of their
:08:36. > :08:40.communities. The public want the law to be administered with an even
:08:40. > :08:43.hand. We poll the public last year about whether they wanted this new
:08:43. > :08:52.system or whether they prefer the existing system with Chief
:08:52. > :08:58.Constable and a broader police authority. 65% said they would
:08:58. > :09:04.rather stick with the status quo. Only 15% thought they would trust
:09:04. > :09:14.an elected politician over the chief constable. Lord Wasserman UN
:09:14. > :09:15.
:09:15. > :09:18.on the record as saying it will be in low turnout. US saying it is the
:09:18. > :09:26.elections after this and that are going to be significant. What other
:09:26. > :09:30.next four years going to be? A pilot was map no, they are when the
:09:30. > :09:35.PCCs start to make a difference in their communities. Members of those
:09:35. > :09:39.communities begin to realise this person is somebody who can make a
:09:39. > :09:43.difference to their lives. Some -- suddenly you find whereas now
:09:44. > :09:49.people have never heard of PCCs, they regard crime as something done
:09:49. > :09:55.to them. If he is not going to interfere in operational policing
:09:55. > :10:03.what is this great chance that -- transformation he is going to do?
:10:03. > :10:07.believe that a commissioner can have an effective police force by
:10:07. > :10:15.inspiring and leading and supporting the chief constable.
:10:15. > :10:21.This is not a conflict. This tock about the practicalities. -- must
:10:21. > :10:25.talk about the practicalities. Let's talk about Hillsborough. I
:10:25. > :10:29.just wonder if you had a police and crime Commissioner there who was
:10:29. > :10:33.answerable to the good folks like yourself if you would have felt a
:10:33. > :10:39.boisterous for quite so long? current system does not seem to
:10:39. > :10:44.have worked for us. The decisions that the local police authorities
:10:44. > :10:51.and not making have not worked for as. Certain people should have been
:10:51. > :10:53.suspended because of allegations about them. It did not happen.
:10:53. > :10:59.think a Police and Crime Commissioner, because he is
:10:59. > :11:04.answerable, he or she would have been a better situation for you.
:11:04. > :11:09.would hope so. I would hope for more transparency. I hope there
:11:09. > :11:17.would be more accountability because they were elected. As a
:11:17. > :11:21.former top cop, or transparency? More accountability? I think it
:11:21. > :11:26.does depend. Politicians are not unknown to decide not to be
:11:26. > :11:34.transparent just before an election. I do not think that is a given. You
:11:34. > :11:39.will not -- need more levers. There are one of two facets of the new
:11:39. > :11:45.role, police authorities do at least meet in open public meetings.
:11:46. > :11:50.Not with a huge audience, perhaps, but they are a public meeting. Most
:11:50. > :11:54.of the decisions that will be taken between the chief and the Police
:11:54. > :11:58.and Crime Commissioner are going to be taken in a room on their own.
:11:59. > :12:02.Some of that decision making in the public might go. There is a bake
:12:02. > :12:06.onus on the individuals to take on this role to make sure that the
:12:06. > :12:11.public transparently see the decisions that had taken and they
:12:11. > :12:15.are not done in smoke-filled rooms. We could have some horrendous
:12:15. > :12:23.personality clashes. That is a possibility. Most Jeeves will want
:12:23. > :12:33.to make that relationship work. -- most chiefs. I can hear what you're
:12:33. > :12:40.saying. I did not realise that it would be in an open forum. -- would
:12:40. > :12:45.not be in an open forum. Going back to accountability being elected by
:12:45. > :12:48.the public. I agree there should be accountability what happened with
:12:49. > :12:52.Hillsborough is one of the greatest policing scandals of my lifetime.
:12:52. > :13:00.Their police there should have been accountable to the law. I am not
:13:00. > :13:06.sure... This was people power that forced change here. Isn't this an
:13:06. > :13:11.expression of democratic power? There were generations of elected
:13:11. > :13:15.politicians who didn't deal with this situation. Are you concerned
:13:15. > :13:19.the Police and Crime Commissioner might not share your agenda? Not at
:13:19. > :13:24.all. This is a constitutional point. It is not about a liberal agenda or
:13:24. > :13:27.another agenda. It's about saying you need checks and balances in a
:13:27. > :13:31.democracy and you need independence people as well as political people
:13:31. > :13:38.and they would no more have an elected judge, if you have elected
:13:38. > :13:43.judges, but our best always works for it -- walks free. They don't
:13:43. > :13:52.necessarily serve the whole community just a popular bets.
:13:52. > :13:57.Wasserman, a brief comment. This is a top that relates and concerns the
:13:57. > :14:04.allegations of resources. We have known that is a role for
:14:04. > :14:11.politicians. Policing needs an infinite, somebody needs to make
:14:11. > :14:16.the decision. Is it if re-elected where Mark will have to make
:14:16. > :14:21.decisions? The local media will make sure this is transparent.
:14:21. > :14:24.thanks to you all. Later, we're going to be looking at what the
:14:24. > :14:28.candidates themselves say they're going to do if they are elected.
:14:28. > :14:38.What their priorities are. These commissioners are going to have a
:14:38. > :14:52.
:14:52. > :14:56.What would you do? Where would you send the bodies? After next week's
:14:56. > :15:01.elections the commissioners will decide where we will drop the Thin
:15:01. > :15:06.Blue Line. What will having a commissioner mean it to people like
:15:06. > :15:12.you and me? When it all comes down to it and will they really make
:15:12. > :15:19.that much of a difference. It is perhaps thanks to him that we
:15:19. > :15:24.have the police at all. Robert Peel was an MP and at Prime Minister. He
:15:24. > :15:29.also said men in uniform into London to catch criminals. Our
:15:29. > :15:34.first real police force. If he were alive today the bloke behind the
:15:34. > :15:39.humble Bobby might be beaming. That is because crime is falling by
:15:39. > :15:44.almost 10 % in 12 months in the West Midlands. But that does not
:15:44. > :15:49.mean the new commissioners are in for an easy ride.
:15:49. > :15:53.The latest figures show that last year there were 380,000 reported
:15:53. > :15:58.crimes in the West Midlands. That is one for every 16 people that
:15:58. > :16:06.lives here. The crooks are certainly still at it. That means
:16:06. > :16:10.plenty of victims. What are the experiences of the
:16:10. > :16:16.people on the street? What do they want to see tackled by these new
:16:16. > :16:21.bosses of the boys and girls in blue? I have always thought of
:16:21. > :16:26.myself as a good listener. Let us hear what people have to say.
:16:26. > :16:33.just got home from work, closed the door behind me, saw the wife and
:16:33. > :16:36.children. Went downstairs. One hour later somebody had been in and
:16:36. > :16:44.taken their briefcase, the money from the copy shop, and our
:16:44. > :16:50.computers. That must have been is so scary. The definitely. That is
:16:51. > :16:56.the story of one victim. I have only been here five minutes. What
:16:56. > :17:04.about some of the punters? What is there expedience? Have you ever had
:17:04. > :17:11.to close the police -- call the police? The response I got - I
:17:11. > :17:15.might as well not have bothered. I go to the local shop there is the
:17:15. > :17:22.youth outside. They are drinking. The more they drink the more
:17:22. > :17:29.abusive they get. It is not very nice. I do not want to feel
:17:29. > :17:39.intimidated. I had been out with some friends. I came back. There
:17:39. > :17:40.
:17:40. > :17:49.was a door with glass. I opened the door and went in. I'd jump to over.
:17:49. > :17:55.But the came out. Started to write it all down. I never saw him again.
:17:55. > :18:03.Is this the police? Yes. Where would you like to see more
:18:03. > :18:13.officers? In the open. On patrol. The you hadn't officer come to
:18:13. > :18:15.
:18:15. > :18:23.report a burglary. I never heard from him again. From what I am
:18:23. > :18:26.seeing every bit the is seeing the same then. Some of the good folk of
:18:26. > :18:29.the West Midlands have spoken. They've been victims of crime and
:18:29. > :18:31.they think there's plenty of work to be done.
:18:31. > :18:41.So what will these new commissioners do and will they
:18:41. > :18:48.
:18:48. > :18:50.This is the technical but. In this region we'll elect a
:18:50. > :18:52.commissioner for each of our five forces: Staffordshire, Warwickshire,
:18:52. > :18:54.Gloucestershire, West Mercia that looks after Shropshire,
:18:54. > :18:57.Herefordshire and Worcestershire. And, finally, West Midlands which
:18:57. > :19:07.covers an area that includes the cities of Birmingham, Wolverhampton
:19:07. > :19:07.
:19:07. > :19:12.The West Midlands force is the second largest in the country and
:19:12. > :19:15.its commissioner will get the highest salary - �100,000. While
:19:15. > :19:23.Warwickshire and Gloucestershire are two of the smallest - but still
:19:23. > :19:25.paying a wage of 65 grand. So, nice little earners. But
:19:26. > :19:31.exactly who's in the running for these high paid, high pressured
:19:31. > :19:33.jobs? Well it's proved to be popular. 19
:19:33. > :19:40.candidates have put themselves forward for these five prestige
:19:40. > :19:43.positions. Many are elected councillors.
:19:43. > :19:50.There's a former MP and an ex-MEP - while six are independents who
:19:50. > :19:56.aren't members of the main political parties. And some, like
:19:56. > :20:02.me, used to have police uniform jobs. But other than the salary why
:20:02. > :20:04.else might they be interested in the position?
:20:04. > :20:09.The successful candidates will control budgets of hundreds of
:20:09. > :20:12.millions of pounds. They'll set a five year plan for tackling crime.
:20:12. > :20:18.And if they're not happy with the way the job's being done they'll
:20:18. > :20:21.have the power to fire the chief constable.
:20:21. > :20:27.So they'll be powerful people. But, as we know, while crime may be
:20:27. > :20:29.falling, some folk in the West Midlands feel it's still a problem.
:20:29. > :20:32.Will these commissioners make a difference? Well, I've brought
:20:32. > :20:42.together two people in the know with different views on the impact
:20:42. > :20:46.
:20:46. > :20:49.they're going to have. We welcome the introduction of a police and
:20:50. > :20:55.crime commissioner. It will put victims at the heart of the justice
:20:55. > :21:02.system. They have got an obligation to listen. It is an opportunity for
:21:03. > :21:07.victims of crime to have their voice heard. Police priorities can
:21:07. > :21:10.be determined around their views. You are looking at this from a
:21:10. > :21:15.different perspective. You have had a long period in the police. What
:21:15. > :21:21.are your views? The danger is it is a lot of power in one pair of hands.
:21:21. > :21:24.I would have preferred to have seen the democratic element broadened by
:21:24. > :21:34.collecting the fooled police authority. I think that was the way
:21:34. > :21:34.
:21:34. > :21:38.to go. -- the Complete police authority. This one person will
:21:38. > :21:43.probably represent a political party. This brings in the risk of
:21:43. > :21:48.party politics influencing policing at a local level to a higher degree
:21:48. > :21:54.than we have seen in the past. That is my concern. This is going to be
:21:54. > :21:59.a huge decision and a huge job for anybody. It is a very big job.
:21:59. > :22:05.Whoever comes into this job need a lot of strategic planning skills.
:22:05. > :22:11.The need to handle big budgets. Over half a billion pounds budget
:22:11. > :22:14.in West Midlands. This is a big job. I am concerned that many of the
:22:14. > :22:19.candidates nationally do not come with a professional background to
:22:19. > :22:24.handle that. I am talking about an organisational background. They
:22:24. > :22:28.will have to get support quickly to do their job. There is lots of
:22:29. > :22:32.specialism out there. There is lot of experience. We have 40 years of
:22:32. > :22:40.experience in victim Support. We will assist the police and crime
:22:40. > :22:44.Commissioners. But they work with as we can support them.
:22:44. > :22:46.So in a few days' time, we'll vote on the new force behind our local
:22:46. > :22:49.police force. These commissioners will be powerful people who'll
:22:49. > :22:53.decide just how we should be tackling crime.
:22:53. > :23:03.But, as for whether they'll make a real impact? Well, for now, the
:23:03. > :23:10.
:23:10. > :23:15.There are 193 candidates standing in these elections. Each has to
:23:15. > :23:19.produce a statement about what they want to achieve. I have were all in
:23:19. > :23:23.here. Some mention a military background. Some talk about their
:23:23. > :23:28.former role with the police authority. Here are the actual
:23:28. > :23:38.words they use most often. The bigger they are the more a commonly
:23:38. > :23:44.-- the more commonly they appear. Only 30 uses of the word alcohol
:23:44. > :23:50.when 40 % of violent crime is fuelled by alcohol. Is that the
:23:50. > :23:54.right emphasis? One phrase that is common is anti-social behaviour.
:23:54. > :24:04.That is that every day low level nuisance crime that so many of us
:24:04. > :24:05.
:24:05. > :24:12.suffer from. You suffered terribly from that. You set up a CCTV camera.
:24:12. > :24:19.Talk as through it. controllable. Targeting has
:24:19. > :24:26.repeatedly. We kept going to court to try and get them effected. Life
:24:26. > :24:36.became unbearable. -- defected. The police are not proactive. A crime
:24:36. > :24:39.would happen. Do you think our elected commissioner would
:24:39. > :24:45.galvanise them? A in principle it is a good idea that you have
:24:45. > :24:49.someone who is possibly independent. The authorities mark their own
:24:49. > :24:56.homework all the time. But they do not have enough powers. The need to
:24:56. > :24:59.have a lot more power to one of its cases. As soon as a case has gone
:24:59. > :25:01.on for one year did look at the case management, what has gone
:25:01. > :25:05.wrong with that, start to get other people to look at what is going
:25:05. > :25:11.wrong. This is not just about budgets. It has tried to understand
:25:11. > :25:16.what is going wrong, why things are not effective. Why are crimes
:25:16. > :25:25.committed against people and these people are not caught? The whole
:25:25. > :25:31.thing. Not enough power. Not enough power. They should have more power.
:25:31. > :25:38.There is an element of flexibility. I am not sure they need more power.
:25:38. > :25:41.Their job is to identify policing needs and to deal with the chief
:25:41. > :25:46.Constable's and the voluntary organisations and the victims'
:25:46. > :25:56.groups to meet these policing needs. They do not need power. We need
:25:56. > :25:58.
:25:58. > :26:02.leadership. I disagree. The problem now is beneath the surface you need
:26:02. > :26:07.to get to the very basics of why that case is a problem. They need
:26:08. > :26:17.to go and advocate the case management. Who is doing what. Why
:26:17. > :26:25.is there evidence not good enough? Why is there not war-crimes -- why
:26:25. > :26:31.are there are multiple crimes? successful candidate will go on to
:26:31. > :26:36.say I am going to do this for you. He would get elected. You cannot
:26:36. > :26:44.have the same estate, the same street, targeted time after time.
:26:44. > :26:49.Anybody who is any good will have a map on his wall. They will no we're
:26:49. > :26:57.the crimes are. I have seen this. They will say to the Chief
:26:57. > :27:02.Constable, why have we got another burglary or whatever, robbery, on
:27:02. > :27:07.this estate? And not if there are not any boats there. It is a
:27:07. > :27:12.different story from investigating a particular case. A key point that
:27:12. > :27:22.has been raised. What if nobody boats? You and a former gang member.
:27:22. > :27:22.
:27:22. > :27:26.You turn it around. -- you turned it around. The people
:27:26. > :27:35.disproportionately affected by gangs do not live in the leafy
:27:35. > :27:45.areas. This is the danger. People will be feeling how can they
:27:45. > :27:55.communicate. It cannot just be a one of thing. Will somebody stand-
:27:55. > :27:58.up or will we get the boats from elsewhere? -- votes. If there is
:27:58. > :28:03.support in the community the community wants to help. They will
:28:03. > :28:07.want to change the community. There needs to be a youth worker,
:28:07. > :28:12.somebody that they can go to an speak to on a regular basis to get
:28:12. > :28:16.these issues tackled. Could they be tackled by Ms commissioners?
:28:16. > :28:21.Definitely. There needs to be more communication with the young people.
:28:21. > :28:28.The more we come together as a collapse if the more we will solve
:28:28. > :28:34.the problem. -- as a collective. You can see the size of the issues