:00:18. > :00:28.Everyone has got the one how the streets should be policed. In just
:00:28. > :00:30.
:00:30. > :00:32.over one week's time, the way the That is when we elected brands new
:00:32. > :00:36.Police and Crime Commissioner. Through them, we will get the
:00:36. > :00:42.chance to decide how police deal with everything from under-aged
:00:42. > :00:45.drinking, graffiti, right through to gun crime. Tonight, we would
:00:45. > :00:55.explain the idea, look at how it will work can discuss the issues
:00:55. > :01:06.
:01:06. > :01:09.Millions of us across England and Wales are being given a choice. Who
:01:09. > :01:14.do we want to be our Police and Crime Commissioner? Who do we want
:01:14. > :01:17.to decide the strategy for how safe our streets are? To deal with
:01:17. > :01:21.crime? To look after victims? Why should we go to the polls next week
:01:21. > :01:26.on a cold November night in these controversial elections? Will the
:01:26. > :01:30.new Police and Crime commissioners make a difference? And what effect
:01:30. > :01:40.the changes will have where you live? Tonight well be looking at
:01:40. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :01:45.what these police elections mean for all of us. We are looking at
:01:45. > :01:48.the way we are policed, from the cities to the countryside. We will
:01:48. > :01:58.ask what people expect from the police and can the new crime
:01:58. > :02:03.
:02:03. > :02:10.Commissioners give us what we want? We will be asking, are the
:02:10. > :02:12.candidates out by going in the right direction? Joining me
:02:12. > :02:20.throughout are people like Shami Chakrabati from the Human Rights
:02:20. > :02:22.group Liberty. And Lord Wasserman, who helped design it. But what will
:02:22. > :02:25.these police commissioners be responsible for? For a start
:02:26. > :02:28.they'll be able to hire and fire a Chief Constable. They have to
:02:29. > :02:32.deliver a five-year police and crime plan and come up with the
:02:32. > :02:35.budget. They have to regularly consult you and me on the way they
:02:35. > :02:39.police our streets. And they might also be able to influence how
:02:39. > :02:41.justice is administered through the courts.
:02:41. > :02:43.These characters will be managing multimillion pound organisations,
:02:43. > :02:51.and developing a plan that covers areas with populations of millions,
:02:51. > :02:55.combining both urban and rural, all within one police force area. It's
:02:55. > :02:58.a huge job. Riz Lateef has been trying to find out what sort of
:02:58. > :03:07.things they will have to think about when they start work next
:03:07. > :03:11.week. Police have to manage all types of crime, whether it is by
:03:11. > :03:14.and grime in the City or anti- social behaviour in the countryside.
:03:14. > :03:18.The advertising campaign is hard hitting, but the new Police and
:03:18. > :03:23.Crime Commissioner will have to tap into people's everyday concerns.
:03:23. > :03:28.The gangs that how around, especially in the park. On the
:03:28. > :03:33.stretch of road that I live, they use it like a motorway. More police,
:03:33. > :03:37.more wardens. The job is to listen to the public and in the run-up to
:03:37. > :03:42.elections, the candidates to write making their promises to remain --
:03:42. > :03:47.to win votes. Once in office, they may discover just how complex in
:03:47. > :03:53.policing is with conflicting demands. Sheerin Middlesbrough,
:03:53. > :03:58.anti-social behaviour takes up most police time. This man has suffered
:03:58. > :04:02.10 years of abuse, including a two petrol bomb attacks on his home. He
:04:02. > :04:08.knows exactly what he wants from the new police and crime
:04:08. > :04:13.commissioner. The need to sort the estate out. Put more police on the
:04:13. > :04:17.beach. Without that, people will suffer more. We need to target the
:04:17. > :04:20.people causing trouble in the communities. Police on the beach
:04:20. > :04:25.may reassure people their communities are safe. But to point
:04:25. > :04:30.them everywhere all the time is impossible. Different crimes need
:04:30. > :04:34.different policing. Take this area in North Yorkshire where crime is
:04:34. > :04:39.relatively low. Bobbies on the beats are not a priority, but
:04:39. > :04:43.recently, the village post office had its cash machine stolen. People
:04:43. > :04:48.are wrenches to want their fair here of policing. Two doors down
:04:48. > :04:52.from the Post Office, this lady's property has been broken into twice.
:04:52. > :04:59.She is concerned rural areas will be overlooked by the new Police and
:04:59. > :05:03.Crime Commissioner. My concern is that the police commissioner might
:05:03. > :05:07.think that petty crime as it is Labour does not matter. But it does
:05:07. > :05:12.matter to people, especially in rural areas. And if somebody takes
:05:12. > :05:19.your trailer or your bike or they break into your shed, then it does
:05:19. > :05:23.affect those people. And we pay our taxes. We matter. It is up to the
:05:23. > :05:27.Police and Crime Commissioner to listen and deliver policing
:05:27. > :05:31.relevant you and do it with limited resources. But that is not the only
:05:31. > :05:35.challenge. There is the tricky issue of personalities. The new
:05:35. > :05:39.Police and Crime Commissioner will set the priorities for a chief
:05:39. > :05:45.constable. How will they get on and can they agree on how to achieve
:05:45. > :05:49.what the public wants to see? A reduction in crime. This man is a
:05:49. > :05:52.former chief constable. He knows how tough that jobbers. But he
:05:52. > :05:58.thinks the job of the new Police and Crime Commissioner will be even
:05:58. > :06:01.harder. It is enormously challenging. The individual will
:06:01. > :06:05.need to understand the police service. They were made to have a
:06:05. > :06:08.lot of political nous and there will need to know how to run an
:06:08. > :06:15.enormous organisation and have the confidence of the public and the
:06:15. > :06:19.media. It is a virtually impossible task.
:06:19. > :06:23.Strong words. But a virtually impossible task for any one
:06:24. > :06:27.individual. I do not think that is right. He is talking about managing
:06:27. > :06:32.of the police force. The chief constable will manage the police
:06:32. > :06:37.force. Police and Crime Commissioner is not managing, he is
:06:37. > :06:42.a leader. He will try to identify policing needs. He is not going to
:06:42. > :06:46.be managing the 4th on a day-to-day basis. There is a management team,
:06:46. > :06:52.a chief constable. They have been trained and paid for that. That is
:06:52. > :06:57.their job. There was a lot at the beginning of the programme about
:06:57. > :07:01.changing police operations. This will not affect police operations,
:07:01. > :07:05.except if the Chief Constable wants them to change. It is about
:07:05. > :07:09.priorities, focusing on people's needs. Identifying those needs and
:07:09. > :07:14.making sure the Chief Constable needs them. It is power to the
:07:14. > :07:20.people. It is not. But his power to another politician. We have seen
:07:20. > :07:25.too much political interference in policing and law-and-order. The
:07:25. > :07:28.this is more democracy. Democracy is not just about having elections.
:07:28. > :07:32.Elected politicians are not the only people with authority in a
:07:32. > :07:36.democracy. You also have to have the rule of law. Politicians that
:07:36. > :07:40.the laws, they decide what the police powers are, what the crimes
:07:40. > :07:46.are, but then you need Independent professionals to serve the whole
:07:46. > :07:49.community. Whether they vote will not. Young, old, minorities as well
:07:49. > :07:55.as majorities. I am worried that this charismatic local politician,
:07:55. > :07:59.if that is who he is, it will normally be a he'd rather than a
:07:59. > :08:03.police authority which is my -- which is not averse. I'm worried
:08:03. > :08:07.that this politician will be looking for the headlines and the
:08:07. > :08:14.popular causes and not serving the Taf needs of the entire community,
:08:14. > :08:17.no matter how vulnerable they are. I do not agree. I think Members of
:08:17. > :08:22.Parliament serve the whole of their communities when they are elected.
:08:22. > :08:26.I think the mayor serves the whole of the community of London. I do
:08:26. > :08:29.not think we need to worry about Police and Crime Commissioner
:08:29. > :08:36.neglecting bits of their communities. But the public want
:08:36. > :08:41.the law to be administered within each -- even a hand. We polled the
:08:41. > :08:46.public last year about whether they wanted this new system of whether
:08:46. > :08:52.they preferred the existing system with a chief constable and a
:08:52. > :08:58.broader police as rot. 65% of the people we polled said they would
:08:58. > :09:02.rather stick with the status quo. When the 15% said they would trust
:09:02. > :09:07.the elected politician. You will on the record as saying that it may
:09:07. > :09:11.well be a very low turnout. You accept that. You have also said
:09:11. > :09:14.people do not understand the concept of this rule in one
:09:14. > :09:18.individual's hands. Then you are saying actually, it is the
:09:18. > :09:23.elections after this one that are going to be really significant.
:09:23. > :09:26.What are the next four years going to be? The next four years are a
:09:26. > :09:29.period when the Police and Crime Commissioner are coming to begin to
:09:29. > :09:33.make a difference in their communities are members of those
:09:33. > :09:37.communities begin to realise that they are someone who can make a
:09:37. > :09:41.difference to their lives. And suddenly, you will find, whereas
:09:41. > :09:44.now, people have never heard of Police and Crime Commissioner, they
:09:44. > :09:49.regard crime as something that is done to them, not something they
:09:49. > :09:52.can control. If he is not going to interfere in operational policing,
:09:53. > :09:58.what is this transformation he will do in people's lives? You cannot
:09:58. > :10:02.have it both ways. I believe in inspirational leadership. I believe
:10:02. > :10:05.Police and Crime Commissioner can give a better, more effective
:10:05. > :10:09.police force by inspiring and leading and supporting the chief
:10:09. > :10:14.constable. I do not see this as a conflict. Let's talk about the
:10:14. > :10:19.practical and one of the biggest police cover-ups in the history.
:10:19. > :10:24.Hillsborough, for example. You lost your two lovely girls at
:10:24. > :10:29.Hillsborough. I wonder if you had had a police and crime commissioner
:10:29. > :10:32.who was answerable to good folks like yourself, would you have felt
:10:32. > :10:38.was this for quite so long? current system does not seem to
:10:38. > :10:43.have worked for this. The decisions that the local police authorities
:10:43. > :10:47.are not making haven't worked for us. Why certain people should have
:10:47. > :10:51.been suspended because of allegations about them. It did not
:10:52. > :10:54.happen. You think a Police and Crime Commissioner because he is
:10:54. > :11:00.answerable to people and can get kicked out after four years, that
:11:00. > :11:03.would have been a better situation for you? I would hope so. I would
:11:03. > :11:09.hope there would be more transparency. But there would be
:11:09. > :11:12.more accountability from them because they were elected. As a
:11:12. > :11:17.former top police officer yourself, more transparency, more
:11:17. > :11:21.accountability. This is a real possibility? I think it depends.
:11:21. > :11:24.Politicians are not unknown for deciding not to open up and be
:11:24. > :11:33.transparent just before an election, so I do not think that is a given
:11:33. > :11:37.that it would necessarily happened. There are one or two facets of the
:11:37. > :11:40.new rule, notably, police have verities for all their floors, do
:11:40. > :11:44.at least meet in open public meetings. Not with a huge audience
:11:44. > :11:49.present because they are not very interesting for many, but they are
:11:49. > :11:52.at least at a public meeting. Most of the decisions that can be taken
:11:52. > :11:56.between eight and eight Police and Crime Commissioner will be taken in
:11:56. > :12:02.a room with a cup of coffee on the Rome. Somehow, some of that
:12:02. > :12:04.decision making in public might go. There is a big bonus on the
:12:04. > :12:08.individuals at a combat rule to make sure the public transparently
:12:08. > :12:11.see the decisions taken and they're not just done in what used to be
:12:12. > :12:18.called smoke filled rooms. A you could get personality clashes.
:12:18. > :12:25.is a distinct possibility. Most commanders will want to make fat
:12:25. > :12:31.work. That will be lightly. I can hear what he was saying. I did not
:12:32. > :12:37.realise that it would be in an open forum that decisions would be made.
:12:38. > :12:42.That is not good for transparency. However, I will come back to the
:12:42. > :12:46.accountability of being collected by the public. I agree that there
:12:46. > :12:49.should be accountability and what happened with Hillsborough is one
:12:49. > :12:56.of the greatest policing scandals of my lifetime. The police should
:12:56. > :13:02.have been accountable to the law. We have had generations of...
:13:02. > :13:10.was people power that forced change here. Isn't this an expression of
:13:11. > :13:16.democratic rule? Are you concerned that the Police and Crime
:13:16. > :13:20.Commissioner may not here your agenda? But not at all. This is a
:13:20. > :13:25.constitutional point. It is not about a liberal agenda or another
:13:25. > :13:29.agenda, it is about saying you need balances in a democracy and you
:13:29. > :13:35.need Independent people as well as political people and I would no
:13:35. > :13:38.more have an elected judge. If you put policing in the hands of
:13:38. > :13:44.elected politicians, they do not necessarily serve the whole
:13:44. > :13:50.community, just the most popular bet. A police final comment. I see
:13:50. > :13:54.it completely differently. This is a job which relates to, which
:13:54. > :13:59.concerns the allegations of scarce resources. We have almost no matter
:13:59. > :14:03.zero for politicians. Policing needs are in for much. Policing
:14:03. > :14:08.resources are very limited. Some minutes to make that decision. Is
:14:08. > :14:11.it could be a chief constable or was it a free the elected a Police
:14:11. > :14:17.and Crime Commissioner who has to defend his actions? Every day, the
:14:17. > :14:22.local media will ensure that this is transparent. Thank you very much.
:14:22. > :14:26.Later, we will be looking at what the candidates themselves say they
:14:26. > :14:36.will do if they are elected. Put their priorities are. These
:14:36. > :14:39.
:14:39. > :14:43.commissioners are going to have a We are about to make a historic
:14:44. > :14:52.decision that will change forever the way we are policed. We will
:14:52. > :15:00.talk about the issues that matter. I'm joined by a former police
:15:00. > :15:10.officer worth more than 20 years of experience. The commissioners will
:15:10. > :15:18.
:15:18. > :15:24.have a tough job. Crime and the This is rural North Yorkshire. It
:15:24. > :15:34.is peaceful. Maybe you think crime would not be a problem here. But
:15:34. > :15:46.
:15:46. > :15:54.you would be wrong. I am in Kirkbymoorside. There are not
:15:54. > :16:04.enough police on the ground to talk to people with noisy neighbours or
:16:04. > :16:06.
:16:06. > :16:16.someone who is losing machinery. Mike Pannett knows all about the
:16:16. > :16:21.
:16:21. > :16:31.issues. Ryedale is such a vast area. It maybe that at night, you travel
:16:31. > :16:37.
:16:37. > :16:45.Most crime happen in our towns and cities because that is where most
:16:45. > :16:55.people live. Residents here have had their fair share of problems.
:16:55. > :16:56.
:16:56. > :16:58.Mike Pannett served in York as well as in Ryedale. It is apparent here
:16:58. > :17:04.that antisocial behaviour is high on the list. You had criminal
:17:04. > :17:14.damage, drug abuse, you'd congregating at night. He need to
:17:14. > :17:26.
:17:26. > :17:34.get to understand the problems so Simon Moss lives across the street
:17:34. > :17:44.from where a teenage girl died from a drug overdose earlier this year.
:17:44. > :17:52.
:17:52. > :18:01.You do not expect this to happen to someone so young. Youngsters, they
:18:01. > :18:05.know the P us holes do not have We saw in that report that many
:18:05. > :18:09.people in Yorkshire are still expecting more from our police
:18:09. > :18:19.force. Let us take a look at what the change will mean to victims of
:18:19. > :18:20.
:18:20. > :18:25.crime. My son was brutally murdered in 2004 by the US. He had been
:18:25. > :18:30.battered to death, stabbed three times. I am a victim of crime and
:18:31. > :18:36.my son is a victim of crime that I have the life sentence, not them.
:18:36. > :18:42.The law is far too lenient. The aim of these commissioners is to give
:18:42. > :18:49.people like you a voice. Does that give you confidence? Not really. I
:18:49. > :18:54.do not think they have said what they will do for victims of crime.
:18:54. > :18:58.I know there will be funding there. But victims of crime want the
:18:58. > :19:07.punishment to fit the crime, sentencing, which we do not have
:19:07. > :19:14.any faith in in this country. that report you look at crime put
:19:14. > :19:18.up Lorraine does not feel the law is on her side. It is dreadful put
:19:18. > :19:23.up now is the chance for the commissioners to go out there and
:19:23. > :19:29.listen to what the public have to say. The people are worried about
:19:30. > :19:39.how political potentially the role has become. They should listen to
:19:40. > :19:41.
:19:41. > :19:47.the public. They have to be the voice and listen to the community.
:19:47. > :19:54.They have quite a job to do that, to restore the trust and faith of
:19:54. > :20:01.people like Lorraine Fraser, the victim of crime. The commissioners
:20:01. > :20:06.need to restore trust. As we have seen, the difficulty for the
:20:06. > :20:15.incoming commissioners is they face a public which is mistrustful of
:20:15. > :20:21.how the system works. What could a commissioner do, potentially?
:20:21. > :20:29.aim is to look at the pool of money and resources and direct them to
:20:30. > :20:33.their priorities. Ultimately, where there is a call for support to from
:20:33. > :20:42.victims or whatever it may be, it is up to the commissioner to back
:20:42. > :20:52.that up. Will this make you were more or less likely to cast a vote?
:20:52. > :20:54.
:20:55. > :21:00.I do not really know. Funding, many, but the general public once to see
:21:00. > :21:06.it is the punishment fitting the crime. I'm not interested in money,
:21:06. > :21:12.I am interested in punishment. The sentences of my son's killers did
:21:12. > :21:18.not fit the crime. Turnout could be very low and that could undermine
:21:18. > :21:22.the legitimacy of these elections? People are worried about a low
:21:22. > :21:28.turnout. People do not have much confidence in party politics. There
:21:28. > :21:34.is a vital role to be had there but that it is vital that we ever get
:21:34. > :21:41.in will be able to listen to the public that they are serving. There
:21:41. > :21:47.are questions, they will have to go and knock on the door and say there
:21:47. > :21:50.must be changes. The bottom line being they are being brought in to
:21:50. > :21:58.scrutinise and hold to account. They are a watchdog and we hope it
:21:58. > :22:01.will work. Certainly. We were not know until after the elections how
:22:01. > :22:07.this has worked. They will have to convince the public that they can
:22:08. > :22:14.do something. Time will tell. you very much for joining us. These
:22:14. > :22:21.elections are taking place on 15th November. Let us take a look at two
:22:21. > :22:31.you will be voting for in Yorkshire. There are a couple of candidates in
:22:31. > :22:41.
:22:41. > :22:49.0 -- North Yorkshire. There are You will have an opportunity to put
:22:49. > :22:59.your questions to your candidate tomorrow on BBC Radio York and on
:22:59. > :23:02.
:23:02. > :23:05.From all of us here in Sheffield, goodbye. There are 193 candidates
:23:05. > :23:09.standing in these elections, and each has to produce a statement
:23:09. > :23:12.about what they want to achieve. This is all of them. Some mention
:23:12. > :23:17.their military background, some talk about their former role with
:23:17. > :23:22.the police authority. Here are the actual words they use
:23:22. > :23:26.most often. The bigger they are, the more commonly they appear.
:23:26. > :23:36.Crime obviously hundreds of mentions. 60 references to drugs.
:23:36. > :23:37.
:23:37. > :23:47.Out of 55,000 words only 30 uses of the word alcohol. Anti-social
:23:47. > :23:47.
:23:48. > :23:50.behaviour is mentioned 117 times. And actually we might all hear
:23:50. > :23:53.about the big crimes but it's the anti-social behaviour which blights
:23:54. > :23:56.us. The low level crime. Asher Nardone, mum of two and carer for
:23:56. > :23:59.her severely disabled son has regularly been a victim of anti-
:23:59. > :24:09.social behaviour, and Chris Preddie, including damage to her car and
:24:09. > :24:10.
:24:10. > :24:16.stones thrown her windows. They were and controllable. They kept
:24:16. > :24:22.targeting us up repeatedly. In the end, life became unbearable. I
:24:22. > :24:32.think the big problem is the police are not proactive any more. They
:24:32. > :24:33.
:24:33. > :24:38.just react. A crime will happen. crime Commissioner could galvanise
:24:38. > :24:45.them? In principle, it is a good idea to have someone who is
:24:45. > :24:55.independent. But they do not think they have enough powers. I think
:24:55. > :24:56.
:24:56. > :25:00.they need more powers to deal with cases. They could start to get
:25:00. > :25:05.other people to look at this. This is not just about police and the
:25:05. > :25:15.budget. It is trying to understand what is going wrong and why it is
:25:15. > :25:19.
:25:19. > :25:24.ineffectual. Why at the prisons not sorting people out? Not enough
:25:24. > :25:31.power, they should have enough power? There is a bit of leg room
:25:32. > :25:36.for more powers to evolve? I think their job is to identify a policing
:25:36. > :25:40.needs and to deal with their chief constables and the voluntary
:25:40. > :25:49.organisations and the victims to meet the needs. I do not think they
:25:49. > :25:57.need power. They need leadership. disagree. When you start getting
:25:57. > :26:03.beneath the surface, you need to get to the very basics of why that
:26:03. > :26:12.case is such a problem. They need to go in and MANAGEMENT and see who
:26:12. > :26:22.is doing what. Why are you having multiple crimes in in tears over
:26:22. > :26:22.
:26:22. > :26:26.and over again? Why at the same people being targeted?
:26:26. > :26:36.commissioner could come on to the estate and say we will do this for
:26:36. > :26:42.you and get elected. Anyone who is any good in this role will have a
:26:42. > :26:47.map on the wall and they will be able to see where the crimes are
:26:47. > :26:57.and will know what happens and they will be able just say to the Chief
:26:57. > :27:02.
:27:02. > :27:09.Constable why is this not being dealt with on this estate? Shami
:27:09. > :27:16.Chakrabati has made a key point that has been raised. A former gang
:27:16. > :27:19.member has turned things around and is helping others. People are being
:27:19. > :27:24.affected by a gang so disproportionately. They do not
:27:24. > :27:34.live in the leafy areas where people may be voting in these
:27:34. > :27:37.
:27:37. > :27:40.elections. How we communicate with people in these communities? It
:27:40. > :27:50.should not be a case where people do not know what to do after six
:27:50. > :27:51.
:27:51. > :27:55.months. Perhaps there should be more populist messages? It depends
:27:55. > :28:00.if there is support in the community. People will want to
:28:00. > :28:04.change their community if the support is there. They need to be
:28:04. > :28:10.someone there that they can speak to on a regular basis to try to get
:28:10. > :28:15.these issues tackled. I fear there needs to be more communication with
:28:15. > :28:22.the young people, the communities and the police. The more we come
:28:22. > :28:28.together as a collective, the more we will solve problems. Already,
:28:28. > :28:31.you can see the size of some of the problems. Now you've got a chance
:28:31. > :28:34.to have your say on the issues. If you want to make your own point,
:28:34. > :28:37.then all across England there'll be police election debates from 9am.