0:00:02 > 0:00:05Saints And Scroungers puts the spotlight on benefit thieves -
0:00:05 > 0:00:09those who ruthlessly steal millions of pounds every year from the British taxpayer.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11We also search out the saints - people who help
0:00:11 > 0:00:16put unclaimed cash into the hands of those who really deserve it.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43Saints And Scroungers is all about busting benefit thieves
0:00:43 > 0:00:46who steal millions every year, and the crack team of investigators
0:00:46 > 0:00:49determined to scupper their devious scams.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52We also shine a light on those who genuinely need the money
0:00:52 > 0:00:55and the people who help them get it.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57They are our saints.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00The saints get help and the fraudsters get their comeuppance.
0:01:01 > 0:01:02Coming up on today's show...
0:01:02 > 0:01:07a scrounger who doesn't declare his savings and uses money
0:01:07 > 0:01:11that you pay in taxes to help him get on the property ladder.
0:01:11 > 0:01:15It's likely that some of the money used to purchase the property came from the benefits system.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18This is a serious and calculated fraud
0:01:18 > 0:01:20that went on for a number of years.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23And a single mother who reaches rock bottom.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26I thought I'd be homeless in three months flat.
0:01:26 > 0:01:30Will someone help her get the financial support she's entitled to?
0:01:30 > 0:01:33Looking at the form
0:01:33 > 0:01:38and having to admit that my child was that disabled was heartbreaking.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46If you've got no job, no income, and a large family to support,
0:01:46 > 0:01:50you may be able to claim benefits. But if you've got savings in the bank,
0:01:50 > 0:01:54you might not be entitled to as much money, if anything at all.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57Some people think they can have their cake and eat it -
0:01:57 > 0:02:01leave their nest egg earning interest, whilst still living off benefits,
0:02:01 > 0:02:04paid for, of course, by the taxpayer.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10Meet Shahzad Ali, a 36-year-old man.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13He has a wife and six children to provide for,
0:02:13 > 0:02:16but he's disabled and can't work, and to make matters worse,
0:02:16 > 0:02:19three of his children are also disabled.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23So Mr Ali has been claiming income support
0:02:23 > 0:02:25from the Department for Work and Pensions
0:02:25 > 0:02:27for at least ten years,
0:02:27 > 0:02:31plus housing and council tax benefit from the London Borough of Newham.
0:02:34 > 0:02:39But a tip-off from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs put his claims in doubt.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42He was suspected of defrauding the system
0:02:42 > 0:02:46of almost £174,000 worth of benefits.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50And Newham Council weren't going to let him get away with it.
0:02:51 > 0:02:56Their counter fraud manager, Emma Vick, is in charge of the case.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59The Department for Work and Pensions does data-matching exercises
0:02:59 > 0:03:04with other government agencies and departments, including the Inland Revenue.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07Data matching does exactly what it says it does.
0:03:07 > 0:03:12It compares data stored on different computers by different data controllers to see if they match.
0:03:15 > 0:03:19In this case, the Inland Revenue had information that Mr Ali
0:03:19 > 0:03:22was getting large amounts of interest paid into bank accounts,
0:03:22 > 0:03:24which would indicate that he had savings.
0:03:24 > 0:03:27The Department for Work and Pensions weren't aware of the accounts,
0:03:27 > 0:03:31and when they received the information, they started the investigation.
0:03:31 > 0:03:35And rightly so, because if you have savings, you have to declare them,
0:03:35 > 0:03:37so the Department for Work and Pensions
0:03:37 > 0:03:41decided to take a closer look at Mr Ali's claims for benefits,
0:03:41 > 0:03:45and see what information he had provided.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48The DWP pulled out all of Mr Ali's claim forms
0:03:48 > 0:03:51and established that he'd been claiming benefits
0:03:51 > 0:03:55since at least December 2002 up to February 2009.
0:03:55 > 0:04:00He was claiming income support at a rate of between £127 a week
0:04:00 > 0:04:03and £346 a week throughout that period.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07If Mr Ali can't work because he has a disability, very few savings,
0:04:07 > 0:04:11and no visible means of supporting himself and his family,
0:04:11 > 0:04:14he's entitled to income support.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18No problem - that's what it's there for.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Mr Ali also stated he was disabled on his claim forms,
0:04:20 > 0:04:24and so he was entitled to receive disability living allowance.
0:04:24 > 0:04:29He got that at varying amounts that ranged between £95 a week and £119 a week.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32Again, that's what's great about Great Britain.
0:04:32 > 0:04:37The disability living allowance is there for those who need it.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39Mr Ali also stated he had a dependent wife
0:04:39 > 0:04:42and six children living with him at the claim address.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45Three of his children were also disabled, so, in addition,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48he was getting disability living allowance for those children.
0:04:48 > 0:04:53So Mr Ali was claiming income support and disability living allowance
0:04:53 > 0:04:55from the Department for Work and Pensions.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58Further investigations showed that he was also claiming
0:04:58 > 0:05:03housing and council tax benefit from the London Borough of Newham.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07The housing benefit he was claiming was to cover the rent of a four-bedroom property
0:05:07 > 0:05:10that he shared with his wife and children in Newham.
0:05:10 > 0:05:14He received between £310 a week at the beginning
0:05:14 > 0:05:17to £369 a week towards the end of the claim period.
0:05:17 > 0:05:22In addition to that, he received between £16 and £20 council tax benefit as well per week.
0:05:22 > 0:05:26Well, it looks like Mr Ali has had a pretty tough time of it.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28If you can't work because you're disabled,
0:05:28 > 0:05:32but you still have to provide for your wife and six children,
0:05:32 > 0:05:36three of whom are also disabled, what are you going to do?
0:05:36 > 0:05:40And surely these are exactly the sort of people our benefits system is there to help.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46And in Mr Ali's case, the benefits system had helped him
0:05:46 > 0:05:50to the tune of at least £174,000 since 2002.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53But was he entitled to the money?
0:05:53 > 0:05:57Mr Ali's claims that he and his children were disabled was never in doubt.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59He had medical documentation to back up his claims,
0:05:59 > 0:06:02and he was entitled to receive disability living allowance
0:06:02 > 0:06:04for both himself and his children.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07His claims for income support, housing benefit
0:06:07 > 0:06:08and council tax benefit
0:06:08 > 0:06:12gave the Department for Work and Pensions, and Newham Council,
0:06:12 > 0:06:14cause for concern.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17During the life of a benefit claim, the claimant is required to notify us
0:06:17 > 0:06:19of any changes in their circumstances,
0:06:19 > 0:06:23and they'll be sent renewal forms to complete and send back to us.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26At no point during his claim did Mr Ali declared that he had any savings
0:06:26 > 0:06:30or indeed that the interest on them was accumulating.
0:06:30 > 0:06:35This contradicted the findings of the data-matching exercise
0:06:35 > 0:06:37which led to the original tip-off.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41They flagged up that Mr Ali was earning interest from different bank accounts.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44It was time to dig a little deeper.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48Rashid Dipul, a senior fraud investigator at Newham Council,
0:06:48 > 0:06:49takes up the case.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53As the DWP data match had identified several accounts
0:06:53 > 0:06:57in which interest was being accrued, it was up to us then
0:06:57 > 0:07:01to basically approach the banks and ask them for statements
0:07:01 > 0:07:05for all these accounts, in order to ascertain how much money Mr Ali had.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08Rashid and the Department for Work and Pensions
0:07:08 > 0:07:09had their work cut out for them
0:07:09 > 0:07:13because there were quite a few accounts to investigate.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17The information passed to the DWP by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs
0:07:17 > 0:07:20showed that Mr Ali actually had five undeclared accounts with the Halifax.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23Through the course of the investigation,
0:07:23 > 0:07:26four more accounts with the Abbey were discovered,
0:07:26 > 0:07:28as well as a further account with NatWest.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31That's ten undeclared bank accounts!
0:07:31 > 0:07:35And when Rashid went through the statements with a fine-tooth comb,
0:07:35 > 0:07:36he made a shocking discovery.
0:07:36 > 0:07:41Once we received the statements from the banks and building societies,
0:07:41 > 0:07:44we were able to see movement of a lot of money throughout these accounts.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47In this instance here, the statements from the Halifax
0:07:47 > 0:07:52showed that early on in the claim, say, for instance, in 2002 to 2003,
0:07:52 > 0:07:56there were large receipts of cash payments into one of his accounts.
0:07:56 > 0:08:01Here we have a receipt of £6,400 cash from June 2003,
0:08:01 > 0:08:05and only a few months later, in September 2003,
0:08:05 > 0:08:09a further payment of cash of £5,200 into his account.
0:08:09 > 0:08:13Cash payments of £6,400 one day,
0:08:13 > 0:08:15and £5,200 another?!
0:08:16 > 0:08:19And that was just the Halifax account.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22Newham Council could smell a rat, and they were going to track it down.
0:08:22 > 0:08:28Because, although you're allowed to have some savings if you're on benefits, there is a limit.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32Benefit regulations state that anybody who's on benefits
0:08:32 > 0:08:36can have savings up to £6,000 and your benefit won't be affected at all.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39Between 6,000 and 16,000 is a sliding scale,
0:08:39 > 0:08:43with the more savings you have reducing the amount of benefit you'll receive.
0:08:43 > 0:08:45If you have over £16,000 in savings,
0:08:45 > 0:08:48you're not entitled to receive benefits.
0:08:48 > 0:08:54Any guesses as to how much Mr Ali had in his various savings accounts?
0:08:54 > 0:08:5510 grand?
0:08:55 > 0:08:5720 grand?
0:08:57 > 0:08:59Maybe 50 grand?
0:08:59 > 0:09:02You're not even close!
0:09:02 > 0:09:06Mr Ali had at least £100,000.
0:09:08 > 0:09:12And at no point did he declare these savings to Newham Council
0:09:12 > 0:09:14or the Department for Work and Pensions,
0:09:14 > 0:09:17or notify them of a change of circumstances.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23The only account Mr Ali ever declared was the Post Office account
0:09:23 > 0:09:26into which his income support payments were received.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29Throughout his claim until we started the investigation,
0:09:29 > 0:09:33we had no idea he had any other bank accounts.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35It was time to get Mr Ali in for questioning,
0:09:35 > 0:09:39because, if he'd been fraudulently claiming benefits since 2002,
0:09:39 > 0:09:45he had effectively stolen almost £174,000.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49But would he give the council the answers they needed?
0:09:49 > 0:09:52We've already established you had sufficient savings
0:09:52 > 0:09:55that you should have told us about. Why did you not tell us about that?
0:09:58 > 0:10:01But for now, it's farewell to the fraudsters
0:10:01 > 0:10:04and hello to the people we call our saints -
0:10:04 > 0:10:08those who are in genuine need of help but are too proud,
0:10:08 > 0:10:11or don't know how to claim what is rightly theirs,
0:10:11 > 0:10:14and the people who point them in the right direction.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21You work hard, you pay your taxes, and you think your future is secure.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23But life has a funny way of tripping you up
0:10:23 > 0:10:28when you least expect it, and sometimes it can be pretty scary.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33When Laura Clarke discovered her daughter was deaf,
0:10:33 > 0:10:38- she was devastated.- I just thought, "What's going to happen to my child?
0:10:38 > 0:10:41"She's not going to be educated, there's just no hope."
0:10:41 > 0:10:43Unable to return to part-time work as a nurse,
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Laura was living off the last of her savings,
0:10:46 > 0:10:50and her daughter was living in a world of silence.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53Although Laura was no longer in a relationship with Poppy's father,
0:10:53 > 0:10:58he was still emotionally and physically involved in his daughter's life.
0:10:58 > 0:11:01But he couldn't help out financially because he'd been signed off work.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04So Laura was facing a frightening and uncertain future
0:11:04 > 0:11:07as a single mum in Dorset.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09Things had got pretty bad.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13I thought I was going to be homeless in three months flat.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17Laura needed emotional and financial support,
0:11:17 > 0:11:21so she took the advice of Poppy's audiologist
0:11:21 > 0:11:24and called the National Deaf Children's Society.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27The first thing they did was arrange for a local family officer
0:11:27 > 0:11:31to visit Laura in her home and find out whether she was entitled to benefits.
0:11:31 > 0:11:34The family officer came round,
0:11:34 > 0:11:38chatted to Glen and I about what benefits I could be on,
0:11:38 > 0:11:44what benefits I was entitled to with Poppy being disabled.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47I didn't feel that happy
0:11:47 > 0:11:51at having disability living allowance,
0:11:51 > 0:11:54because I didn't want to have a disabled daughter.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57But she said, "You do, and that's what it's for."
0:11:59 > 0:12:01Laura took one look at the form
0:12:01 > 0:12:06and realised she didn't have the emotional strength to fill it out.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10Looking at the form and having to admit
0:12:10 > 0:12:14that my child was that disabled was heartbreaking.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17And I couldn't write that, I couldn't write what was needed.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21So the family officer returned to Laura's house
0:12:21 > 0:12:26and they filled in the disability living allowance form together.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28They also applied for carer's allowance,
0:12:28 > 0:12:33income support, child tax credit, housing benefit and child benefit.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36I couldn't have done it without her. I couldn't have.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40But with the National Deaf Children's Society, she did,
0:12:40 > 0:12:44and Laura received all the benefits she was entitled to -
0:12:44 > 0:12:47just over £380 a week.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50It's incredible. I can actually pay my bills.
0:12:50 > 0:12:55I am not homeless and I can feed my child.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58With her financial worries taken care of,
0:12:58 > 0:13:01Laura could now turn to the National Deaf Children's Society
0:13:01 > 0:13:03for the emotional support she needed,
0:13:03 > 0:13:07and a glimpse of a brighter future for Poppy.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11A lot of families feel isolated, and one thing we do
0:13:11 > 0:13:14is bring them together for family weekends.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18The family weekends are run throughout the country
0:13:18 > 0:13:20in different regions.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24One of the concerns that Laura had initially
0:13:24 > 0:13:26was how she was going to communicate with Poppy,
0:13:26 > 0:13:30so we invited Laura to go on a family sign course.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33It was really important because we had to talk to our daughter.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37'I needed to communicate with her, I needed to be able to say,'
0:13:37 > 0:13:41"It's time to eat. "Do you want to go to sleep?"
0:13:41 > 0:13:44'I needed to make sure she wasn't frustrated,'
0:13:44 > 0:13:47that she could communicate with us. She is actually very bright.
0:13:47 > 0:13:52The family weekend was another turning point in Laura's life.
0:13:52 > 0:13:56There were about 15 families,
0:13:56 > 0:14:01and they taught us about 300 phrases,
0:14:01 > 0:14:04they taught us how to read to her
0:14:04 > 0:14:10and we told her her first bedtime story and it was just great.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13And there was more good news. Around the same time,
0:14:13 > 0:14:18Laura's health visitor suggested she contacted the Family Fund.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21The Family Fund is a charity, a UK-wide charity,
0:14:21 > 0:14:24working with families of disabled children.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26It's a grant-giving organisation.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30We help families with anything that is related to the care of the child.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34There were two things Laura needed extra help with -
0:14:34 > 0:14:39the cost of getting to the Southampton Institute of Sound and Vibration Research
0:14:39 > 0:14:44where Poppy was being fitted with hearing implants, and a new buggy.
0:14:44 > 0:14:49At the time, we had a brilliant off-roader, three-wheeler...
0:14:49 > 0:14:53wonderful buggy that someone had given me
0:14:53 > 0:14:56and she couldn't see us.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59She was in a world of silence by herself.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02She couldn't get our attention
0:15:02 > 0:15:06and she hated it. I was pushing it,
0:15:06 > 0:15:08holding her the whole time.
0:15:08 > 0:15:13Having a rear-facing one so that she could see us talking
0:15:13 > 0:15:16meant that not only could we sign to her
0:15:16 > 0:15:20'but she could sign to us when she wanted to talk to us.'
0:15:20 > 0:15:23So Laura asked the charity for help.
0:15:23 > 0:15:28We first received an application from Laura in February 2011,
0:15:28 > 0:15:33and from that application form - we read through them,
0:15:33 > 0:15:35I look at their particular applications - I decided
0:15:35 > 0:15:39that this one needed a visit from one of our local advisors.
0:15:39 > 0:15:44I was really excited. The lady came to our house, she was brilliant.
0:15:44 > 0:15:50I kept saying, "Um... I think I can buy a cheaper pram,"
0:15:50 > 0:15:53and she was like, "Don't worry, you've paid your taxes,
0:15:53 > 0:15:56"this is what you're entitled to."
0:15:56 > 0:16:00The Family Fund doesn't have a bottomless pot of money,
0:16:00 > 0:16:03but families who are on a low income and receiving tax credits
0:16:03 > 0:16:07and other benefits may be eligible for a grant.
0:16:07 > 0:16:08And Laura was.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12The family received a grant for transport costs
0:16:12 > 0:16:14to enable them to get to and from the hospital,
0:16:14 > 0:16:17and also a forward-facing buggy
0:16:17 > 0:16:22so that Mum could interact with Poppy when she was out and about
0:16:22 > 0:16:24and improve her communication skills.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27I'm really grateful for Family Fund's help.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30I can interact with my daughter,
0:16:30 > 0:16:34I can chat to her while we're going down the road. It's priceless.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38In less than a year, and with the help of her saints,
0:16:38 > 0:16:40Laura's life had turned around.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43She had the financial support she so desperately needed
0:16:43 > 0:16:46and the ongoing emotional support which would get her through
0:16:46 > 0:16:49the challenges of bringing up a deaf child.
0:16:49 > 0:16:54The support is always there for Laura, whenever she wants it.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57Families need different information and support at different times
0:16:57 > 0:17:02during their child's life and NDCS will always be there to help them.
0:17:02 > 0:17:07Them knowing that they'll get good, confident support
0:17:07 > 0:17:10is a godsend to most families.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13Laura's currently discussing Poppy's nursery school
0:17:13 > 0:17:17and education needs with the National Deaf Children's Society,
0:17:17 > 0:17:19and having met inspiring people through the NDCS,
0:17:19 > 0:17:24she's feeling very positive about Poppy's future.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27'My hopes now for Poppy...'
0:17:27 > 0:17:31I hope she'll be a well-educated, well-rounded young lady
0:17:31 > 0:17:34'who has a very good job that she's happy in.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38'I met a few people in NDCS'
0:17:38 > 0:17:40who were profoundly deaf, had two degrees,
0:17:40 > 0:17:44had gone round the world, had a family and were happy.
0:17:44 > 0:17:47It's good to know that there are saints in this country
0:17:47 > 0:17:50to help pull you out of your depths of despair.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52And now that the right support is in place,
0:17:52 > 0:17:56Poppy's future is looking very bright indeed.
0:17:56 > 0:17:58Hopefully there is no stopping her.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09Now it's time to return to our scrounger.
0:18:09 > 0:18:14Newham Council has teamed up with the Department for Work and Pensions
0:18:14 > 0:18:18to investigate Shahzad Ali, a 36-year-old family man.
0:18:18 > 0:18:23He's suspected of fraudulently claiming nearly £174,000 worth
0:18:23 > 0:18:28of income support, housing benefit and council tax benefit.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30And if Newham Council can prove it,
0:18:30 > 0:18:35they're going to make sure he pays it all back.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38It came about because Mr Ali had bank accounts he hadn't declared
0:18:38 > 0:18:40to the Department for Work and Pensions
0:18:40 > 0:18:44but Inland Revenue were aware of them - they had interest payments going into them.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47As part of the investigation, the next course of action
0:18:47 > 0:18:49was then to approach the banks and ask them for statements
0:18:49 > 0:18:53for all the accounts that Mr Ali had failed to previously declare to us.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56And when they received the bank statements,
0:18:56 > 0:19:00they realised they had a big-time fraudster on their hands.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03Once we'd received the statements from all the relevant banks
0:19:03 > 0:19:06and building societies, we were able to identify that Mr Ali
0:19:06 > 0:19:09actually had quite a lot of money across these bank accounts.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12What it also showed was that over the course of the claim,
0:19:12 > 0:19:14he was putting in thousands of pounds
0:19:14 > 0:19:16and also taking out thousands of pounds.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20There was at least £100,000
0:19:20 > 0:19:24in Mr Ali's various undeclared accounts.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26So, in January 2009,
0:19:26 > 0:19:30the investigators got him in for questioning to try and establish
0:19:30 > 0:19:35where the money was coming from and how much he actually had.
0:19:35 > 0:19:37Mr Ali claimed in his interview under caution
0:19:37 > 0:19:39that the monies going into his bank account
0:19:39 > 0:19:42were coming from a syndicate which he was part of.
0:19:42 > 0:19:44Apparently, the way this syndicate worked
0:19:44 > 0:19:46was that a group of friends put money into a pot
0:19:46 > 0:19:49and every so often, one of them won the whole lot.
0:19:50 > 0:19:52Do you believe that?
0:19:52 > 0:19:55No. Neither did Newham Council.
0:19:55 > 0:19:59Mr Ali provided no evidence to support this incredible claim.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02He never provided any names and details,
0:20:02 > 0:20:05any addresses of any of the people involved in this syndicate.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07So the council questioned him further
0:20:07 > 0:20:10about where the money was coming from,
0:20:10 > 0:20:14and the answer he gave them was completely unexpected.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17They were savings from my benefits.
0:20:17 > 0:20:24- Well, £7,000 over four months is very nearly £2,000 a month...- Yeah.
0:20:24 > 0:20:29- ..out of your benefits. - Yeah, but we get £3,000 a month.
0:20:29 > 0:20:34So you're spending £1,000 to feed and clothe you and six children?
0:20:34 > 0:20:37- Yeah, but... - As well as paying all your bills?
0:20:37 > 0:20:40Yeah. We use how much we use.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44Oh, yes. You did hear it correctly.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47He was receiving £3,000 a month in benefits
0:20:47 > 0:20:50and putting away £2,000 each month.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53That's £24,000 a year plus interest.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58There's nothing to stop you saving up the benefits that you receive,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01but you're still obliged to tell us about those savings.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04Which, as we know, he didn't.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08At this point in the interview,
0:21:08 > 0:21:12Newham Council were beginning to wonder if Mr Ali could have had
0:21:12 > 0:21:14other accounts they weren't aware of,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17and when questioned about this, he revealed he had
0:21:17 > 0:21:20another three accounts with Nationwide.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24So including the accounts they've already discovered,
0:21:24 > 0:21:29I make that 13 bank accounts. Crikey. And this is a man who says he can't afford to pay his rent?
0:21:29 > 0:21:32Pull the other one. It's got bells on it.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34As there were more accounts,
0:21:34 > 0:21:37there was potentially more money being stashed away.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40The original sum was estimated at £100,000,
0:21:40 > 0:21:43but in his interview under caution,
0:21:43 > 0:21:46Mr Ali admitted that it was more than that.
0:21:46 > 0:21:50All I'm saying to you is that the amount
0:21:50 > 0:21:53which you are saying, £100,000, is...
0:21:53 > 0:21:55not up-to-date.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59It goes up to, maybe,
0:21:59 > 0:22:02over 100 and...uh...
0:22:04 > 0:22:07..60,000, 70,000.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11Pardon? 170 grand?!
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Newham Council decided it was time to put the questioning on hold
0:22:15 > 0:22:18and do a bit more digging.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21After Mr Ali informed us about his further three Nationwide accounts,
0:22:21 > 0:22:24we then had to approach Nationwide for them to provide us
0:22:24 > 0:22:28with statements for those accounts covering the whole claim period.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30We needed to see exactly how much money
0:22:30 > 0:22:32Mr Ali had in those accounts for that time.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35And it was a substantial amount.
0:22:35 > 0:22:40In September 2005, he had a cash credit of £10,000.
0:22:40 > 0:22:45In October 2005, he had a further transfer of £10,000.
0:22:45 > 0:22:48Again, some time later, in January 2008,
0:22:48 > 0:22:52he had a cheque credit for £12,000. And then in February 2009
0:22:52 > 0:22:56there was a counter-cheque withdrawal from the account for £40,000.
0:22:56 > 0:23:00Armed with this information, in May 2009,
0:23:00 > 0:23:04Newham Council got Mr Ali in for a second interview under caution.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06And it was during this interview
0:23:06 > 0:23:10that the staggering truth was revealed.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14First up, the total amount he had in savings.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16I've got 182.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21In my accounts, 182.
0:23:21 > 0:23:25- 182,000?- Yes. 182,000.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28Unbelievable, isn't it?
0:23:28 > 0:23:34Mr Ali had £182,000 in savings but he was still claiming benefits.
0:23:34 > 0:23:38Now, it's very simple. If you have more than £16,000 in savings,
0:23:38 > 0:23:42you're not entitled to benefits and if you carry on claiming,
0:23:42 > 0:23:45you're committing a crime.
0:23:45 > 0:23:49So Newham Council and the DWP had to find out
0:23:49 > 0:23:53if this was naive misunderstanding or a calculated fraud.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56We've already established that you had sufficient savings
0:23:56 > 0:24:00that you should have told us about.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03ALI SIGHS
0:24:03 > 0:24:06You were worried about your benefit getting stopped, yeah?
0:24:06 > 0:24:08- Is that correct?- Um...
0:24:08 > 0:24:10I was worried that my housing benefit
0:24:10 > 0:24:12and the council tax might be...um...
0:24:13 > 0:24:14- ..stopped.- OK.
0:24:14 > 0:24:18And is that the reason why you failed to declare your savings
0:24:18 > 0:24:21all the way through to the end of your claim?
0:24:21 > 0:24:25- Can you please say yes or no? - Yes, yes.
0:24:25 > 0:24:29The investigators finally had the confirmation they needed.
0:24:29 > 0:24:33Mr Ali had been claiming benefits he knew he wasn't entitled to.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37But there was more to come. During the course of the investigation,
0:24:37 > 0:24:41Mr Ali claimed that the money going in and out of his accounts
0:24:41 > 0:24:43was syndicate money, benefits savings,
0:24:43 > 0:24:46loans made to family members and repayments of those loans.
0:24:46 > 0:24:51One transaction, however, stood out from the rest.
0:24:51 > 0:24:56I've been looking at your other bank accounts
0:24:56 > 0:25:00and you've withdrawn quite large sums of money out of them.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05In fact, £168,500 in total
0:25:05 > 0:25:08you withdrew on the same day,
0:25:08 > 0:25:11the 16th of February 2009.
0:25:11 > 0:25:13Can you tell me where that money's gone to?
0:25:13 > 0:25:15I bought a property with that.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18- RECORD SCRATCHES - Pardon? Did I hear that correctly?
0:25:18 > 0:25:20Yeah, I bought a property with that.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23So Mr Ali had used most of his savings, which, as we know,
0:25:23 > 0:25:27included thousands of pounds of fraudulently claimed benefits,
0:25:27 > 0:25:30to buy a house. That is just wrong.
0:25:30 > 0:25:34Benefits are for people who genuinely need them,
0:25:34 > 0:25:37not to help scroungers get on the property ladder.
0:25:37 > 0:25:41This was a case of pure greed, and, compared to other cases of undeclared savings,
0:25:41 > 0:25:44one of the most serious we've ever investigated.
0:25:44 > 0:25:47Mr Ali begged for forgiveness, but guess what?
0:25:47 > 0:25:52He wasn't entitled to it and he wasn't going to get it either.
0:25:52 > 0:25:57Mr Ali was summonsed to Stratford Magistrates' Court in April, 2011.
0:25:57 > 0:25:58He was charged on four counts -
0:25:58 > 0:26:01two of dishonest false representations
0:26:01 > 0:26:03in relation to his claim for income support
0:26:03 > 0:26:05and two of dishonestly obtaining exemptions
0:26:05 > 0:26:08from paying rent to London Borough of Newham
0:26:08 > 0:26:10and paying council tax to London Borough of Newham.
0:26:10 > 0:26:13Shahzad Ali pleaded guilty to all charges
0:26:13 > 0:26:16and was sentenced at Inner London Crown Court
0:26:16 > 0:26:18to 20 months in prison.
0:26:18 > 0:26:22Mr Ali defrauded the London Borough of Newham and DWP
0:26:22 > 0:26:25out of nearly £174,000. It's a very serious offence
0:26:25 > 0:26:28and we are pleased that his sentence reflects that.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31And what about the money, I hear you cry?
0:26:31 > 0:26:33Don't worry, Newham Council
0:26:33 > 0:26:36and the Department for Work and Pensions are on the case.
0:26:36 > 0:26:40Mr Ali will have to repay all the money that he stole from us.
0:26:40 > 0:26:43There is a financial investigation under way
0:26:43 > 0:26:46in order to identify all assets that he has.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49These assets may be used to repay the debt.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51In Newham, we take fraud seriously.
0:26:51 > 0:26:54Benefits are there for a purpose, to help the neediest in society,
0:26:54 > 0:26:56and if you abuse the system we will investigate you
0:26:56 > 0:26:58and wherever possible, prosecute you.
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