0:00:02 > 0:00:05Saints And Scroungers puts the spotlight on benefit thieves. Those who steal
0:00:05 > 0:00:08millions of pounds every year from the British taxpayer.
0:00:08 > 0:00:10They also search out the saints -
0:00:10 > 0:00:12people who help put unclaimed cash
0:00:12 > 0:00:16into the hands of those who really deserve it.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42Saints And Scroungers is all about busting benefit thieves
0:00:42 > 0:00:46who steal millions every year and the crack teams of investigators,
0:00:46 > 0:00:49determined to scupper their devious scams.
0:00:49 > 0:00:51And, we also shine a light on those
0:00:51 > 0:00:55who genuinely need the money and the people who help them get it.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58They are our saints.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01The saints get help and the fraudsters get their comeuppance.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03And on today's programme...
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Fraud investigators are trailing a woman
0:01:06 > 0:01:09who claimed to be single in order to pocket
0:01:09 > 0:01:12more than £51,000 of taxpayers' cash.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Is there any mention on there at all, on these forms of hers,
0:01:15 > 0:01:18- about Mr Batty? - No, she completely told lies on this.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21And how one woman's battle with cancer
0:01:21 > 0:01:24left her struggling to cope with her illness and her bills.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27My fear was I was going to lose the flat.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31I remember sitting there thinking, "Why did this happen to me?".
0:01:34 > 0:01:36I think it's fair to say, every woman in the land
0:01:36 > 0:01:38would know the difference between their husband
0:01:38 > 0:01:41and the landlord they pay their rent to.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43But some claim not to
0:01:43 > 0:01:47and it's scroungers like this who know how to work the system.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49But they are walking a treacherous tightrope,
0:01:49 > 0:01:51because one slip
0:01:51 > 0:01:54and their dishonesty could land them behind bars.
0:01:54 > 0:02:00Meet 61-year-old Amtul Bibi from East Ham in London.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03For five years, she posed as a struggling single woman
0:02:03 > 0:02:06who couldn't afford to pay her rent.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09But along with her husband Mohammed Bhatti,
0:02:09 > 0:02:13she's suspected of defrauding the benefits system by over £51,000.
0:02:15 > 0:02:19Her case came to the attention of the fraud department at Newham Council.
0:02:19 > 0:02:21I'm meeting Emma Vick
0:02:21 > 0:02:23to find out why.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27When did you discover this potential fraud?
0:02:27 > 0:02:30We found out about this fraud in 2007.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33Mr Bhatti approached the Department for Work and Pensions
0:02:33 > 0:02:35to put in a claim for income support with them.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38He gave Kensington Avenue as his home address.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41- Nothing wrong with that in theory, is there?- No, there's nothing wrong.
0:02:41 > 0:02:43He can put a claim in for benefit if he wants to.
0:02:43 > 0:02:46He included his partner Mrs Bibi on his claim form
0:02:46 > 0:02:49and the system flagged up that she was already claiming benefit
0:02:49 > 0:02:51from that address in her own right.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54- So this is when alarm bells start to ring, is it?- That's right, yes.
0:02:54 > 0:02:56Now, what benefits was she claiming?
0:02:56 > 0:02:58She was claiming income support,
0:02:58 > 0:03:00housing benefit and council tax benefit.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03- How long had she been living there for at that point? - Since at least 2002.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06- OK, so we're talking about a minimum of five years?- Yes.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09Right. And what were her circumstances, as far as you were concerned?
0:03:09 > 0:03:12She said she was a single person with two adult children
0:03:12 > 0:03:14living with her, and she didn't declare a partner.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17So now, all of a sudden, you've got this guy Mohamed Bhatti who's saying,
0:03:17 > 0:03:22- "I'm putting this claim in because I'm living with this lady here with a couple of kids."- Yeah.
0:03:22 > 0:03:23- That's to the DWP.- That's right.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27But, of course, she's put a claim in to the housing benefits saying,
0:03:27 > 0:03:29- "I live on my own with these kids." - That's right, yes.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33Something didn't add up.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36Geetha Ramesh, one of Emma's fraud investigators,
0:03:36 > 0:03:38began doing some digging.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42We discovered by looking at her records that
0:03:42 > 0:03:45we paid her around £180 every week towards her rent,
0:03:45 > 0:03:49based on the information she has provided on her claim form
0:03:49 > 0:03:52and the supporting documents saying that she was a single woman.
0:03:52 > 0:03:57Usually a benefit investigation begins with a claim form.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59What you write on this legal document
0:03:59 > 0:04:02about your living and financial arrangements
0:04:02 > 0:04:05determines whether you're entitled to money or not.
0:04:05 > 0:04:10£180 a week is an awful lot of money, so what is going on?
0:04:10 > 0:04:16Is Mrs Bibi living here in one of these mid-terraced houses in East Ham with just her children,
0:04:16 > 0:04:23or is her partner Mr Bhatti, who's trying to claim income support at the same address, living with her?
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Two completely different stories and they both can't be true.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Someone is telling porky pies.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34Geetha examined the history of Amtul Bibi's claims
0:04:34 > 0:04:37for housing and council tax benefit.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40Between 2002 and 2007, she submitted four application forms
0:04:40 > 0:04:45to Newham Benefits Service in order to obtain housing and council tax benefit.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48We paid benefits on the basis of the information
0:04:48 > 0:04:52she has provided on the claim form and the supporting documents
0:04:52 > 0:04:56stating that she was only receiving income support.
0:04:56 > 0:05:01She never declared her partner at any stage of her claim.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04She also included her two non-dependent sons.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07So, according to the benefits department,
0:05:07 > 0:05:11Amtul Bibi was a single woman living with her two adult sons.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14There was no mention on her form of Mohammed Bhatti,
0:05:14 > 0:05:18the man claiming to be living with her as her husband.
0:05:18 > 0:05:23She was claiming housing benefit in order to pay her landlord's rent,
0:05:23 > 0:05:26so Geetha's next step was to find out just who he was.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32We checked the tenancy agreement on our records showing
0:05:32 > 0:05:38- BLEEP- as her landlord and Londinium Property Services Ltd was the agent.
0:05:38 > 0:05:42But when she contacted Londinium Property Services,
0:05:42 > 0:05:44Geetha made a very interesting discovery.
0:05:44 > 0:05:49They have confirmed that the tenancy agreement was issued by them
0:05:49 > 0:05:54to Mrs Bibi and they have confirmed the landlord of the property was Mr Bhatti.
0:05:56 > 0:05:57Hang on.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00So her landlord was none other than Mr Bhatti,
0:06:00 > 0:06:02the man they believe to be her husband?
0:06:04 > 0:06:07It was now clear she had not been entirely truthful
0:06:07 > 0:06:10about her application for benefit.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16Is there any mention on their at all, on these forms of hers, about Mr Bhatti?
0:06:16 > 0:06:19No. She completely told lies on this.
0:06:19 > 0:06:20I noticed this box here.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24"Are you, or your partner if you have one, related to the landlord?"
0:06:24 > 0:06:26She's left it totally blank.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28She's left it blank. She hasn't even answered the question.
0:06:28 > 0:06:32So, she was just trying to avoid the subject altogether.
0:06:32 > 0:06:36The fraud team now wanted concrete proof of the exact nature
0:06:36 > 0:06:40of the relationship between Mr Bhatti the landlord and Mrs Bibi,
0:06:40 > 0:06:42who he claimed he was living with.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46Geetha contacted the UK Land Registry.
0:06:46 > 0:06:52It's a government department that holds the title deeds for 24 million properties in England and Wales,
0:06:52 > 0:06:56detailing who the owners are, when they were purchased and for how much.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00Because we are an official record-holder of information
0:07:00 > 0:07:02which is beyond doubt,
0:07:02 > 0:07:06if a register says somebody owns a property at a particular time,
0:07:06 > 0:07:09then that's officially the case they do,
0:07:09 > 0:07:12and there's no means of, as it were, disproving that.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15Although some of its information is available to the public,
0:07:15 > 0:07:19professional organisations have greater access to its files.
0:07:19 > 0:07:23We can help in lots of ways when people investigate benefit fraud.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25It obviously depends upon the circumstances.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29If a claimant made an application on a certain date and,
0:07:29 > 0:07:32as at that date, he said he owned no property,
0:07:32 > 0:07:34say he subsequently did sell it,
0:07:34 > 0:07:39and say he says that at the time he made the declaration, he didn't own it,
0:07:39 > 0:07:42recourse to the deeds will show whether he did or not.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47This was exactly the information Geetha wanted.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50Her check on Mrs Bibi's address was very revealing.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54Searches on the Land Registry identified that Mr Bhatti
0:07:54 > 0:07:57owned a property in this street
0:07:57 > 0:08:00when Mrs Bibi was claiming benefits from the address here.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03And that wasn't all that Geetha found out.
0:08:03 > 0:08:09We also identified that he previously owned another property in Shelley Avenue
0:08:09 > 0:08:13where Mrs Bibi was living prior to moving into the property in this street.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16It seemed that the last two properties Mrs Bibi
0:08:16 > 0:08:18had rented had been owned by Mr Bhatti.
0:08:18 > 0:08:19A coincidence?
0:08:19 > 0:08:24The council then requested details of the mortgages on both properties.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27We made enquiries through the National Anti-Fraud Network.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30They act as an intelligence function for us.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34They can gain access to mortgage applications, bank accounts and other financial records
0:08:34 > 0:08:37that they then pass back to us to help us with our investigations.
0:08:37 > 0:08:41They approached the mortgage provider in relation to Kensington Avenue for us
0:08:41 > 0:08:45and this confirmed that Mr Bhatti was indeed the sole owner of that address.
0:08:45 > 0:08:49It also confirmed that he owned the Shelley Avenue address as well.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53There's no two ways about it.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55Mr Bhatti did own the property in this street -
0:08:55 > 0:08:57the one Mrs Bibi was living in,
0:08:57 > 0:09:00and the one she was living in prior to that.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03So the question is, has he been living with her?
0:09:03 > 0:09:04Is she his partner,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07as he claimed on his application form for income support?
0:09:07 > 0:09:10And, on top of that, had she been paying him the £180 a week
0:09:10 > 0:09:13that she claimed for the past five years?
0:09:13 > 0:09:15Or was she pulling a fast one?
0:09:17 > 0:09:20Still to come, is the game up for Amtul Bibi?
0:09:20 > 0:09:23- And you don't know Mr Bhatti? - No.- Right.
0:09:23 > 0:09:27But would this suspected fraudster finally be found out?
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Next, it's farewell to the scroungers and hello to the saints,
0:09:35 > 0:09:40the innocent men and women all over the UK in dire need of government help,
0:09:40 > 0:09:44and the people who show them the way to claim what they deserve.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52Being told you're seriously ill and unable to work has got to be pretty unbearable
0:09:52 > 0:09:55but, if on top of that you're the only one paying the bills...
0:09:55 > 0:09:57Well, that's about as bad as it gets.
0:10:03 > 0:10:0646-year-old Londoner Christine Barker
0:10:06 > 0:10:09loved her busy life as an independent single woman.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12But last year Christine's whole world fell apart
0:10:12 > 0:10:15when she was diagnosed with breast cancer.
0:10:15 > 0:10:20The diagnosis was a massive shock and it took a while to sink in.
0:10:20 > 0:10:24I've come to meet Christine and hear her story for myself.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28- Hello, Christine.- Hi, you all right? - How are you?- I'm OK.
0:10:28 > 0:10:29Tell me about you and your life.
0:10:29 > 0:10:32Well, I'm just an everyday girl.
0:10:32 > 0:10:37I used to get up, go to work, go to the gym, go out with girlfriends.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41What did they say about the treatment? What were you going to have to go through?
0:10:41 > 0:10:44They said, "You're looking at a full right-side mastectomy."
0:10:44 > 0:10:46- That's about as serious as it gets, isn't it?- Mm.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50I was told, "You will have to have chemo and radiotherapy as well,
0:10:50 > 0:10:54"and then go on tamoxifen for the next five years."
0:10:54 > 0:10:58How bad did it actually get? What was the deepest, darkest moment for you?
0:10:58 > 0:11:01The darkest moment was when I was in hospital
0:11:01 > 0:11:04and I went to see the clinical nurse.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08I said to her, "I've just had enough. I can't do it any more.
0:11:08 > 0:11:09"I'm exhausted."
0:11:09 > 0:11:13But just when Christine was struggling to cope,
0:11:13 > 0:11:16she now faced a new worry - how to pay the bills.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19Having been earning a full-time wage,
0:11:19 > 0:11:25she soon found herself having to survive on statutory sick pay of £79.15 a week.
0:11:25 > 0:11:29- You are a lady who lives on her own. - Yeah.- You're the bill payer.- Yep.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33- That must have been a really worrying time.- It was.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35I remember getting up in tears.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38I said to my sister, "I don't know how I'm going to do it,"
0:11:38 > 0:11:40but it was difficult.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44It was really difficult. My fear was I was going to lose the flat.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47I remember sitting there thinking, "Why did this happen to me?"
0:11:47 > 0:11:51After three months, her sick pay was coming to an end
0:11:51 > 0:11:54and Christine had no idea how she would make ends meet.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57She applied for employment support allowance for people
0:11:57 > 0:12:01who are unable to work because of illness or disability.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04I knew nothing about the benefits system because I worked for 25 years,
0:12:04 > 0:12:07so I knew nothing of claiming anything, didn't know what...
0:12:07 > 0:12:09How to even fill out a form.
0:12:09 > 0:12:13After a few months, she was told to come for a medical assessment
0:12:13 > 0:12:16to see if she still qualified for benefit.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20The person who gives you the medical assessment is a doctor but they're not your doctor.
0:12:20 > 0:12:21They know nothing about me.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24They've only got what I've actually put on the form.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27And when I went up for this assessment, I got a letter back
0:12:27 > 0:12:31and they said, "You're not entitled to the benefit any more."
0:12:31 > 0:12:35- What happened?- They asked you various questions and she said...
0:12:35 > 0:12:38I mean, at the time, I remember sitting there in tears
0:12:38 > 0:12:40because I was very, very depressed.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42They ask you, like, "Can you walk?"
0:12:42 > 0:12:45And, obviously, when I filled the form out, I put yes,
0:12:45 > 0:12:48because there's nothing wrong with my legs.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52Fair enough, my legs are not the strength they were previous to what happened to me,
0:12:52 > 0:12:56- so I just filled it out...- So, in a nutshell, it says, "Can you walk?"
0:12:56 > 0:13:00- The answer's yes, but you can only walk so far, then you're worn out. - Yeah.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03Just when Christine was at her most fragile,
0:13:03 > 0:13:05she couldn't see a way out.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08But then she finally had some good luck.
0:13:08 > 0:13:10UCH Hospital - that's the hospital I'm under -
0:13:10 > 0:13:11has a Macmillan centre there.
0:13:11 > 0:13:16I was introduced to the welfare rights officer through the hospital,
0:13:16 > 0:13:20just to give me the support I needed, cos I didn't know where to go.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24One in three of us will get cancer at some time in our lives.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27Macmillan Cancer Support is a national charity
0:13:27 > 0:13:31specifically set up to help people suffering from the disease.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34Money worries are a real concern, second only to pain,
0:13:34 > 0:13:35with regard to cancer.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39My role is to help them to access all the financial support
0:13:39 > 0:13:43that's available to help them navigate through a very complex area
0:13:43 > 0:13:47which they probably wouldn't have had much contact with beforehand.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50A few weeks later, Christine heard she had won her appeal
0:13:50 > 0:13:54and, with the right information on her form,
0:13:54 > 0:13:57her benefit would be going up from £65 a week to £94,
0:13:57 > 0:14:02and there was more good news for Christine about her biggest monthly expense.
0:14:02 > 0:14:03The welfare rights officer said,
0:14:03 > 0:14:07"Did you know you're entitled to housing benefit and council tax benefit?"
0:14:07 > 0:14:10So I went to council, they said, "You are entitled to it."
0:14:10 > 0:14:15This meant her rent was now covered. It was a massive relief.
0:14:15 > 0:14:19There's a huge emotional difference to people. They've said it to me.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22I can see it with them in even their body language and demeanour.
0:14:22 > 0:14:27When you've been able to sit with that person, explain the benefits they're entitled to,
0:14:27 > 0:14:31give them some sort of timeline that they can work towards,
0:14:31 > 0:14:35so they know they can budget and survive the next few months financially,
0:14:35 > 0:14:41they feel empowered because they know what to expect and that's one thing less to worry about.
0:14:41 > 0:14:46Thanks to Macmillan, Christine's finances were looking better.
0:14:46 > 0:14:50But she was finding the side effects of her treatment difficult to deal with.
0:14:50 > 0:14:55Then her nurse at the hospital told her about another charity, The Haven.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Set up for breast cancer sufferers, it offers
0:14:58 > 0:15:02specialist complementary therapies and emotional support for free,
0:15:02 > 0:15:04in centres like this one in Fulham.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07- Hello, are you all right, love? - Yeah.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09The Haven's treatments are tailor-made to
0:15:09 > 0:15:12cope with the physical and emotional affect of the illness.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16It's staffed by trained professionals like former cancer nurse Tina Glynn.
0:15:16 > 0:15:20- Hi, Christine.- Hi, Tina. - How are you?- I'm OK.
0:15:20 > 0:15:24- Lovely to see you.- And you. - So have you got massage today?- Yeah.
0:15:24 > 0:15:26'When you've had a diagnosis of cancer,
0:15:26 > 0:15:30'the therapists need to understand what the body's gone through, really.'
0:15:30 > 0:15:33Our programmes are very much designed to work safely
0:15:33 > 0:15:35around the medical treatments people are having,
0:15:35 > 0:15:37or surgical procedures they're having.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40So just have a seat there.
0:15:40 > 0:15:45OK, so what's been going on with you since I last saw you?
0:15:45 > 0:15:47'They were very, very good.'
0:15:47 > 0:15:50I just took up the opportunity to take acupuncture
0:15:50 > 0:15:54because someone said to me that was very good for the hot flushes,
0:15:54 > 0:15:57cos at the time the hot flushes were very rife.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01Christine also signed up for regular massage to help with
0:16:01 > 0:16:03another side effect of the surgery.
0:16:04 > 0:16:09With this form of massage - it's lymphatic drainage -
0:16:09 > 0:16:13what we're trying to do is open up the pathways,
0:16:13 > 0:16:17going up around the neck and going across the chest.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21The lymphatic drainage massage has been brilliant because my hands were quite swollen.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25So we'll come round and we're just going to do round the elbow.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29When you have your lymph nodes taken out, you can get lymphoedema
0:16:29 > 0:16:30and it can cause swelling.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34It can either be the whole of your arm or just your hand.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37- How's that feeling? - Better so far.- Yeah.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39'It's a very relaxed environment.'
0:16:39 > 0:16:42Everyone knows why you're going there, all the other people that arrive,
0:16:42 > 0:16:46so if you're sitting in the reception, you start having a chat.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49'You get to meet other people that have been in your shoes.'
0:16:51 > 0:16:53It's obvious to me that
0:16:53 > 0:16:56these charities have been a massive support to Christine.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00I've come to meet her at The Haven and find out more.
0:17:00 > 0:17:04How would you sum up how Macmillan and The Haven have helped you?
0:17:04 > 0:17:08Macmillan helped me financially.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12I didn't know that if you are diagnosed with breast cancer,
0:17:12 > 0:17:14you're exempt from paying for prescriptions for five years
0:17:14 > 0:17:17and, again, they filled the form out to help me do that,
0:17:17 > 0:17:20and also to claim travel expenses going to the hospital as well.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23There was a form to fill out for that, so that was through Macmillan.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26- These were all things you weren't aware of?- No, I didn't know.
0:17:26 > 0:17:28Literally the hospital becomes your second home.
0:17:28 > 0:17:30You just get a receipt and you claim it all back.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33- Every penny must have helped. - Oh, yeah, everything did.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37Macmillan had helped Christine deal with the financial pressures of cancer,
0:17:37 > 0:17:41but she found a very different kind of support here at The Haven.
0:17:41 > 0:17:45The Haven got me through the mental side of things
0:17:45 > 0:17:49and all the emotions. They helped me in that way.
0:17:49 > 0:17:50Christine is one brave woman.
0:17:50 > 0:17:54She's been through a terrible ordeal coping with cancer,
0:17:54 > 0:17:59but isn't it brilliant to know that there are charities like Macmillan and The Haven
0:17:59 > 0:18:02to offer support to people like her, just when they need it most?
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Now it's back to the world of the scroungers,
0:18:10 > 0:18:15and Newham Council's fraud team were hot on the heels of a possible benefit cheat.
0:18:15 > 0:18:19Amtul Bibi had told them she was a single woman,
0:18:19 > 0:18:23paying rent at a house in East London and had been claiming
0:18:23 > 0:18:26housing benefit and council tax benefit for five years.
0:18:26 > 0:18:30Meanwhile, Mohammed Bhatti was applying for income support
0:18:30 > 0:18:34from the same address, claiming Amtul Bibi was his partner.
0:18:34 > 0:18:36The council's investigators discovered
0:18:36 > 0:18:40that Mrs Bibi had lied on her benefit application.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43She claimed her landlord was the agent.
0:18:43 > 0:18:47But checks revealed that Mr Bhatti was the real owner of the property.
0:18:47 > 0:18:51What's more, he owned her previous home, too.
0:18:51 > 0:18:54OK, so you established that Mr Bhatti owned the property
0:18:54 > 0:18:58that Mrs Bibi was living in and they were probably married.
0:18:58 > 0:18:59Yeah, we think they were married.
0:18:59 > 0:19:04We didn't have a marriage certificate but the children had the same surname as Mr Bhatti,
0:19:04 > 0:19:06so we knew they were definitely in a relationship.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09If that was the case, can he still act as her landlord
0:19:09 > 0:19:12and she claim rent which she's got to pay to him?
0:19:12 > 0:19:16- Not for the purposes of claiming benefits, they can't do that, no. - Why not?
0:19:16 > 0:19:18That's fraud. Under the benefit regulations,
0:19:18 > 0:19:20if you are related to your landlord,
0:19:20 > 0:19:24they cannot actually charge you rent for the purposes of claiming benefit.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27- And she would have known that? - She would have known that, yes.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30She fills the claim form in and it asks the question.
0:19:30 > 0:19:34It was time for the council to have a chat with Mrs Bibi.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38We established that we'd got enough to interview her under caution,
0:19:38 > 0:19:42so we sent her out an invitation letter to attend an interview at our office.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21During the interview, she said
0:20:21 > 0:20:24she did not know the owner of Kensington Avenue as Mr Bhatti,
0:20:24 > 0:20:30and she also said she did not know the owner of her previous address in Shelley Avenue.
0:21:04 > 0:21:09Amtul Bibi's story just didn't ring true with what the team uncovered.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12At a second interview under caution,
0:21:12 > 0:21:14things were no clearer to investigators.
0:21:50 > 0:21:54So, having claimed in her first interview that
0:21:54 > 0:21:56she didn't know anyone called Mr Bhatti,
0:21:56 > 0:22:01Amtul Bibi now admitted she had been in a relationship with him.
0:22:24 > 0:22:26Could she be telling the truth?
0:22:26 > 0:22:29Could Amtul Bibi be single after all?
0:22:29 > 0:22:31It didn't make any sense at all
0:22:31 > 0:22:36because when Mr Bhatti completed the income support claim form,
0:22:36 > 0:22:39he stated Mrs Bibi as his partner as well as carer,
0:22:39 > 0:22:43and they both signed the application form in 2007.
0:22:43 > 0:22:48The fact that Mrs Bibi and Mr Bhatti have a different surname
0:22:48 > 0:22:51is not unusual in Asian communities.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54They don't need to necessarily take the husband's surname.
0:22:54 > 0:22:58On this occasion, Mrs Bibi chose not to assume Mr Bhatti's surname.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02The investigators knew that Amtul Bibi had two sons.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05If either of them had been born after 1973,
0:23:05 > 0:23:10and Mr Bhatti was the father, they'd have the proof that she was lying.
0:23:10 > 0:23:13One was born in 1972 in Nairobi
0:23:13 > 0:23:17and the other one was born in the UK in 1975.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20We then applied for a birth certificate
0:23:20 > 0:23:24for the child who was born in the UK, and we established that
0:23:24 > 0:23:28the birth was registered by the father of the child,
0:23:28 > 0:23:31Mr Mohammed Latif Bhatti.
0:23:32 > 0:23:34So let me get this right.
0:23:34 > 0:23:37In the period when Mrs Bibi claimed not to have seen her husband,
0:23:37 > 0:23:39she actually went and had a child by him.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41How on earth did that happen?
0:23:42 > 0:23:43A miracle?
0:23:44 > 0:23:48Amtul Bibi's story was clearly not stacking up
0:23:48 > 0:23:51and the fraud team could find no evidence that the couple
0:23:51 > 0:23:53had not been living together.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57Mrs Bibi claimed that Mr Bhatti didn't live with her
0:23:57 > 0:24:00during the period of her benefit claim.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03She provided a number of different addresses for Mr Bhatti,
0:24:03 > 0:24:08but we have made enquiries which identified that Mr Bhatti
0:24:08 > 0:24:10was never living at that address.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12The time for talking was over
0:24:12 > 0:24:15and the investigators now took action
0:24:15 > 0:24:18and suspended Amtul Bibi's benefits.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21Once Mrs Bibi had been interviewed and we'd collated all our evidence,
0:24:21 > 0:24:25a report was compiled and this was sent to Newham Benefits Service
0:24:25 > 0:24:28for them to calculate how much benefit she may have been overpaid.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31The council then worked out just how much cash
0:24:31 > 0:24:34they believed Amtul Bibi had conned out of the system.
0:24:36 > 0:24:40We'd been paying Mrs Bibi between £170 and £180 per week
0:24:40 > 0:24:43for a period of five years, starting from 2002.
0:24:43 > 0:24:47The overpayment that was calculated was just over £51,000.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51Still maintaining her innocence, Bibi began fighting back.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56She appealed against her overpayment,
0:24:56 > 0:25:00the decision was upheld by Newham Benefit Service and then she took the case
0:25:00 > 0:25:04to the tribunal, where the tribunal judge disallowed her appeal.
0:25:04 > 0:25:09In October 2009, shortly after Amtul Bibi appealed,
0:25:09 > 0:25:12investigators were told that Mr Bhatti had died.
0:25:12 > 0:25:17We have also obtained a copy of his death certificate,
0:25:17 > 0:25:22which clearly shows that Mrs Bibi was his wife.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24Address - Kensington Avenue.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30So she was claiming housing benefit for the rent which she was not paying.
0:25:30 > 0:25:32Mr Bhatti was living at this property
0:25:32 > 0:25:35when Mrs Bibi was claiming benefits at this address.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38The tenancy agreement that was submitted was created
0:25:38 > 0:25:42solely for the purpose of obtaining benefits from Newham Council.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Despite all the evidence against her,
0:25:46 > 0:25:50Bibi pleaded not guilty at Stratford Magistrates' Court.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52Due to the seriousness of the case,
0:25:52 > 0:25:55it was referred to Inner London Crown Court.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58Mrs Bibi pleaded not guilty there as well,
0:25:58 > 0:26:01so the case was listed for trial.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04Just before the trial date, she changed her plea to guilty.
0:26:04 > 0:26:08In June 2011, Amtul Bibi was charged with nine counts of fraud
0:26:08 > 0:26:12under the Socials Security Administration Acts
0:26:12 > 0:26:16and was sentenced to eight months in prison.
0:26:16 > 0:26:20Mr Bhatti unfortunately died in 2009 while the case was still under investigation.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23Had he not died, then he also would have faced prosecution.
0:26:25 > 0:26:30Every year, over £74 million is lost through this type of offence -
0:26:30 > 0:26:34two people who live together pretending to live apart
0:26:34 > 0:26:36to cheat the benefits system.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39Living together fraud is one of the most common types of benefit fraud.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41Quite often, people think they can get away with it.
0:26:41 > 0:26:44However, this case shows we will investigate
0:26:44 > 0:26:47any allegations we get and, wherever possible, we will prosecute you.
0:27:09 > 0:27:13Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd