0:00:02 > 0:00:08This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11Starting in the 1970s, a countercultural movement would
0:00:11 > 0:00:14change the way music was made for ever.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20From grass-roots beginnings in the backwaters of Britain,
0:00:20 > 0:00:25a new DIY approach to music making would give rise to a whole new genre.
0:00:25 > 0:00:29Not just the sound but an attitude and an ethos.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33This is indie.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36MUSIC: Disorder by Joy Division
0:00:40 > 0:00:43We'll discover why it spoke so perfectly to a generation
0:00:43 > 0:00:47and reveal how this music for misfits eventually came of age.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55So, what is indie?
0:00:55 > 0:01:00Is it a genre of music generally accepted to involve noisy guitars?
0:01:00 > 0:01:04Is it a business model, small companies not beholden to
0:01:04 > 0:01:07major corporations, or is it a state of mind?
0:01:07 > 0:01:11What's clear is the sense of rebellion.
0:01:11 > 0:01:1540 years ago, the major record labels had total control of
0:01:15 > 0:01:19the music industry and making your own record seemed completely
0:01:19 > 0:01:23out of the question, and it would take a ragtag bunch of outsiders
0:01:23 > 0:01:25and misfits to start the revolution.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28My whole thing about independence - it's not about whether your record's
0:01:28 > 0:01:31distributed by an independent person or it's an independent label.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33It's not about that, it's about spirit.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36I think indie seemed to be something that people would gravitate
0:01:36 > 0:01:39towards and then embrace it 100%.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43Guitar music suddenly came back into the charts in a big way.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45And then everything was independent.
0:01:45 > 0:01:49Independent was as broad a church as the record companies could make it.
0:01:49 > 0:01:51It was a statement - "This is what I want to do".
0:01:51 > 0:01:53A lot of bands just put their own records out
0:01:53 > 0:01:55without even a record deal.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57The major record companies just thought what
0:01:57 > 0:01:59we were doing was unbelievable.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02Instead of 10,000 watching or 5,000 watching,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05actually there was 20 of you in there loving this moment.
0:02:05 > 0:02:07Although it would have been great at the time
0:02:07 > 0:02:09to have been given a shitload of money, you know.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12If you had something to say you could try and do it yourself.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14It just felt like it was attainable.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17It felt like it spoke to you and it felt home-made.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28# He painted Salford's smoky tops... #
0:02:28 > 0:02:32Our story begins in 1976.
0:02:32 > 0:02:36# And parts of Ancoats where I used to play... #
0:02:36 > 0:02:40One Thursday the NME came out and I said, "Look, there's a band here
0:02:40 > 0:02:42"who do a Stooges song."
0:02:42 > 0:02:45So that evening, we drove all the way down to Reading.
0:02:45 > 0:02:49The next day we set about trying to find The Sex Pistols.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56We phoned up the NME and they said, "Their manager has a clothes
0:02:56 > 0:02:59shop on the Kings Road," and that's how we met Malcolm McLaren.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01# Get off your arse! #
0:03:01 > 0:03:05We saw them and we thought, "Great, this is like what we want to do."
0:03:05 > 0:03:08They said they wanted to play somewhere outside of London
0:03:08 > 0:03:14so me and Howard just decided to put on the show ourselves.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16# I am an antichrist
0:03:16 > 0:03:19# I am an anarchist
0:03:19 > 0:03:21# Don't know what... #
0:03:21 > 0:03:24The Sex Pistols concert at Manchester's Lesser Free Trade Hall
0:03:24 > 0:03:27in 1976 has achieved legendary status.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30But that's not what it felt like at the time.
0:03:33 > 0:03:38I don't know if Manchester noticed The Sex Pistols had played.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42The most important thing was that the few people who were interested
0:03:42 > 0:03:46in the same kind of music came along to check out what was happening.
0:03:48 > 0:03:52Morrissey was there, Peter Hook and Paul Morley.
0:03:52 > 0:03:53Were you at it?
0:03:53 > 0:03:56- No.- No.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59Half the people who were there weren't there.
0:04:05 > 0:04:07What the Pistols were doing were kind of what
0:04:07 > 0:04:11we wanted to do, which was basically start a band.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13# One, two, three, four! #
0:04:15 > 0:04:19Punk came with an attitude. It was all about DIY.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21This spirit quickly spread out
0:04:21 > 0:04:25and infected the worlds of journalism and fashion.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29# Bind me, tie me Chain me to the wall... #
0:04:29 > 0:04:33The thing a lot of people had in common across the country was
0:04:33 > 0:04:35a sort of DIY aesthetic.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39So, you know, we were doing vintage clothes.
0:04:39 > 0:04:41You'd go to London and meet other people who are doing it.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43Vivienne Westwood was putting clothes together,
0:04:43 > 0:04:47which inspired us, so it was across fashion.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50There were fanzines rather than magazines.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52People were just doing it regardless.
0:04:57 > 0:05:00It was that feeling of wanting to get involved, you know.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03A girlfriend worked in an office that had a photocopier.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06They were pretty primitive in those days, photocopiers.
0:05:06 > 0:05:07A lot of them on that very oily paper.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11She snuck into work in her lunch hour and knocked out a few for me.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13I took them to the store and said, "You know
0:05:13 > 0:05:15"I was talking about doing a magazine? Here it is.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17"Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits."
0:05:17 > 0:05:19"Great. How many you got?"
0:05:19 > 0:05:20"I've got 20."
0:05:20 > 0:05:23"We'll have the lot. Can we have some more?"
0:05:26 > 0:05:30Yet this was a time when even The Sex Pistols were on a major record label
0:05:30 > 0:05:33and the idea that a band could do it themselves
0:05:33 > 0:05:37and cut a record independently seemed like an impossible dream.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41But here in Manchester, Buzzcocks were about to revolutionise
0:05:41 > 0:05:44the music industry - not that it seemed that big a deal to them.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47MUSIC: Boredom by Buzzcocks
0:05:47 > 0:05:49In about October '76,
0:05:49 > 0:05:52we thought it would be nice to hear what we sound like.
0:05:54 > 0:05:58It would be good if we could actually make our own record.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01It was like a mystical process.
0:06:01 > 0:06:05# Boredom, boredom... #
0:06:05 > 0:06:10We found out that we could have 1,000 singles made for £500 with
0:06:10 > 0:06:14a picture sleeve and also including recording costs.
0:06:14 > 0:06:19It seemed feasible. We found this... Well, basically a hippy.
0:06:19 > 0:06:21He always wanted to be a record producer
0:06:21 > 0:06:24and his name was Martin, Martin Hannett.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27So we booked the studio and recorded Spiral Scratch.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31# Boredom, boredom.... #
0:06:31 > 0:06:34We thought "Well, we need a sleeve now."
0:06:34 > 0:06:36That Christmas, my mum and dad had bought me
0:06:36 > 0:06:38a Polaroid black-and-white camera.
0:06:38 > 0:06:42Richard took the photo and we used that for the Spiral Scratch.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47We knew the people who ran the local Virgin store.
0:06:47 > 0:06:50We said, "Can you sell these?" Which they did.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53We sent a copy to John Peel. He played it.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57# Boredom, boredom. #
0:06:59 > 0:07:00It was only about a month or so,
0:07:00 > 0:07:02we'd actually got rid of the whole thousand.
0:07:02 > 0:07:06So it was surprisingly easy!
0:07:11 > 0:07:15It was a revelation. Up till that point, there was kind of
0:07:15 > 0:07:18a bit of mystery about it, how to make a record.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22It involved people snorting coke in, you know,
0:07:22 > 0:07:27mansions in Beverly Hills and all this lot.
0:07:30 > 0:07:35Once Spiral Scratch had happened, everyone in a band felt empowered
0:07:35 > 0:07:38to do whatever you liked, on your own terms,
0:07:38 > 0:07:40and you could do it outside of London.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46Once it proved to be commercially viable,
0:07:46 > 0:07:49to actually be part of the music business,
0:07:49 > 0:07:51everything is up for grabs.
0:07:51 > 0:07:53And suddenly, we're in a new world.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05One of the bands inspired by Buzzcocks
0:08:05 > 0:08:08were their fellow Mancunians Joy Division.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10Got to do a record.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13It's what everyone was doing, so how hard can it be?
0:08:13 > 0:08:16Our first mistake - in fact the biggest mistake that we made -
0:08:16 > 0:08:19was wanting to do four songs.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22We didn't realise that cramming that much music on a tiny little disc
0:08:22 > 0:08:23made it sound a bit shit.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26We thought, "It'll be all right - value for money!"
0:08:26 > 0:08:28# So long sitting here
0:08:28 > 0:08:29# Didn't hear the warning
0:08:29 > 0:08:32# Waiting for the tape to run... #
0:08:32 > 0:08:36We went to Pips, number one in Europe, this disco
0:08:36 > 0:08:40in Manchester, which was doing New Wave nights, punk nights.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43"Put our record on, put our record on!"
0:08:43 > 0:08:46They'd been playing all this loud music
0:08:46 > 0:08:48and they put ours on and it sounded...
0:08:48 > 0:08:50"Nya nya nya nya"...
0:08:50 > 0:08:51"What's this shit?!"
0:08:58 > 0:09:02But help was at hand in the unlikely form of a local TV presenter.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05I didn't know what to make of Tony.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07Tony was very likeable and irritating on television.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10Everybody in Manchester felt they knew Tony Wilson.
0:09:10 > 0:09:15"You're that bloke off the telly! Yeah! Tony Wilson!"
0:09:15 > 0:09:16THEY LAUGH
0:09:16 > 0:09:19He loved it! He loved it. He loved that people...
0:09:19 > 0:09:21- Hated him!- Hated him!
0:09:21 > 0:09:25He was great, you know, he was totally cool.
0:09:25 > 0:09:26He was a bit like...
0:09:26 > 0:09:30Tony was a bit like that kind of teacher at school
0:09:30 > 0:09:33who would give you a go on a spliff or something, you know what I mean?
0:09:33 > 0:09:36Oh, he looked like a hairdresser to me,
0:09:36 > 0:09:39with kind of poncey hair.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42He was a bit of an anomaly, really, wasn't he?
0:09:42 > 0:09:44SHE LAUGHS
0:09:44 > 0:09:45He was such a genius guy.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49Wilson was a complex person.
0:09:49 > 0:09:53The on-screen genial buffoon hid a man of serious intent.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56Inspired by punk and the Buzzcocks,
0:09:56 > 0:09:59he decided to set up his own label, Factory Records,
0:09:59 > 0:10:03in the South Manchester suburbs, here on Palatine Road.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06In fact, in the front room of his mate's flat -
0:10:06 > 0:10:10it's the bay window, just up there on the first floor.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13And his business model couldn't have been more different to
0:10:13 > 0:10:16that of the established music industry.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19It was the kind of offer you can't refuse. I mean, it was basically,
0:10:19 > 0:10:24"I'll pay for you to make a record, you own the music,
0:10:24 > 0:10:26"and you can..."
0:10:26 > 0:10:29His thing was, it's all about artistic freedom -
0:10:29 > 0:10:30the freedom to fuck off.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33Factory was not a business.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37It was a statement of intent against the prevailing forces.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42I do not know of a decision ever taken
0:10:42 > 0:10:46in the 14-year history of Factory that was based on profitability.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49Factory did things, and Tony did things,
0:10:49 > 0:10:51because it was possible to do them.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54The thing about Tony is you always got the impression
0:10:54 > 0:10:57he's got big, big, BIG ideas.
0:10:57 > 0:10:59He always thought big.
0:10:59 > 0:11:03Factory is not just about records, it's about everything.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07He was very into Manchester. He always thought it was underrated.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09There was always, like, "Fuck you, London,
0:11:09 > 0:11:12"what you can do, we can do better. We don't need you."
0:11:13 > 0:11:17Next, Wilson assembled a pool of talent to run the label.
0:11:17 > 0:11:21Martin Hannett, the old hippy who produced Spiral Scratch,
0:11:21 > 0:11:22would take care of the music
0:11:22 > 0:11:26and he recruited a talented art school graduate, Peter Saville,
0:11:26 > 0:11:29to create Factory's distinctive look.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33Everybody was living out their idealistic notion
0:11:33 > 0:11:36of what it meant to be in pop culture.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39To be, effectively, in kind of a form of Pop Art.
0:11:39 > 0:11:44What gradually began to evolve was this autonomous collective.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47Everybody did what they did the way they wanted to do it,
0:11:47 > 0:11:51without anybody telling them otherwise,
0:11:51 > 0:11:55and that applied to me as it did with the musicians,
0:11:55 > 0:11:57as it did with Martin Hannett the producer,
0:11:57 > 0:11:59as it did with Rob the manager,
0:11:59 > 0:12:03as it did with Tony, the "impresario" of it all.
0:12:04 > 0:12:09With all the elements in place, the question now was, would it work?
0:12:09 > 0:12:12Joy Division's and Factory's debut album, Unknown Pleasures,
0:12:12 > 0:12:14was to be the testing ground.
0:12:14 > 0:12:18MUSIC: Shadowplay by Joy Division
0:12:19 > 0:12:22Joy Division were the band I'd been waiting for.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24They broke your heart when you listened to them.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29# To the centre of the city where all roads meet, waiting for you... #
0:12:29 > 0:12:32That bleakness, which, to be honest,
0:12:32 > 0:12:36when you're in your late teens, early 20s,
0:12:36 > 0:12:38is very, very attractive.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41There was something mournful and soulful,
0:12:41 > 0:12:46that people did come to associate with Manchester as well.
0:12:46 > 0:12:51Rain, mist, cloud, fog, smog, long raincoats, everything monochrome.
0:12:56 > 0:13:00It was as if that band had been forged in my imagination -
0:13:00 > 0:13:01it felt personal.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12I don't think any of us really appreciated it at the time.
0:13:12 > 0:13:13We knew it sounded different
0:13:13 > 0:13:16but, in a way, we thought it sounded a bit TOO different,
0:13:16 > 0:13:18because it didn't sound like us!
0:13:19 > 0:13:24Martin Hannett had an audio vision of what he wanted to create,
0:13:24 > 0:13:30and he initially took Joy Division as the raw material of his ideal.
0:13:30 > 0:13:36Unknown Pleasures is what Martin heard in Joy Division.
0:13:36 > 0:13:37It's not what Joy Division played,
0:13:37 > 0:13:40or necessarily the way Joy Division heard it.
0:13:42 > 0:13:47He'd taken it and he'd... He'd future-proofed it, basically!
0:13:47 > 0:13:50You know, he made it sound like nothing else.
0:13:54 > 0:13:55We just didn't appreciate it at the time.
0:13:55 > 0:13:57We thought, "It sounds a bit bloody weird!"
0:13:57 > 0:13:59You thought it was awful.
0:13:59 > 0:14:01I didn't think it was awful.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03You were a bit disappointed, then.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06You're disappointed because you'd always imagined it would sound...
0:14:06 > 0:14:10You always have an idea in your head how it's going to sound.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12That's the thing about doing music and recording.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15When it doesn't sound like that, you're disappointed.
0:14:15 > 0:14:19You don't think that he's put his own brilliance and stamp on it,
0:14:19 > 0:14:22really. It's as though he's taken it off you and changed it all.
0:14:22 > 0:14:23Yeah, he's a twat!
0:14:24 > 0:14:27I think it was absolutely crucial,
0:14:27 > 0:14:30Tony Wilson's view of creating a Northern empire.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33I mean, he was very political.
0:14:33 > 0:14:35And I think, for people in the North,
0:14:35 > 0:14:39it was an incredible sort of badge of identity.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44Tony Wilson created something out of a paradox,
0:14:44 > 0:14:48this idea that we're rubbish, we're nothing,
0:14:48 > 0:14:52and yet we are everything. And we are incredibly proud of that.
0:14:52 > 0:14:56And I think people really tuned into that paradox.
0:15:01 > 0:15:06# Take me, take me... #
0:15:06 > 0:15:10The spirit of independence wasn't confined to Manchester.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12In cities across the country, scenes were popping up,
0:15:12 > 0:15:14all with their own local flavour.
0:15:16 > 0:15:18In Liverpool the first sprouts could be seen
0:15:18 > 0:15:22in the market stalls of the alternative fashion scene.
0:15:22 > 0:15:27A lot of the punk characters were involved in retail, actually.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31We were people who were forerunners in our fashion and style.
0:15:31 > 0:15:35It wasn't catered for, so we kind of jumped in and did it.
0:15:35 > 0:15:41The glamorous look of these people was very important to the music.
0:15:41 > 0:15:45It was a set of very unusual characters, including
0:15:45 > 0:15:49Leila, a transgender stall holder,
0:15:49 > 0:15:53and the prima donna, Jayne Casey, with her head shaved bald
0:15:53 > 0:16:00and painted silver, which really was confrontational and alien.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02Holly was a fascinating character.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04In a working class background,
0:16:04 > 0:16:07to walk down the street looking the way that he did,
0:16:07 > 0:16:10and to go to school with the attitude that he had,
0:16:10 > 0:16:12I mean, it was just confrontation,
0:16:12 > 0:16:15confrontation, confrontation, you know?
0:16:15 > 0:16:17Punk had an effect on me.
0:16:17 > 0:16:22Overnight, I stopped getting called a queer in the street.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25And I was called a punk, which I didn't really mind.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29It was kind of a slight improvement, in a way.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33# You see me standing here... #
0:16:33 > 0:16:36But it was here in central Liverpool opposite the site of
0:16:36 > 0:16:38the properly world-famous Cavern Club
0:16:38 > 0:16:40there was another dank, basement cellar
0:16:40 > 0:16:43that became equally legendary.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45This is Eric's, where the punks band played.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47I came here as a student from Manchester,
0:16:47 > 0:16:50went down the stairs and saw Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers
0:16:50 > 0:16:52and it properly blew my mind.
0:16:52 > 0:16:54But it was just the kind of sanctuary in the late '70s
0:16:54 > 0:16:57that would form the meeting place for the misfits
0:16:57 > 0:17:00who would guide the city's independent scene.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10The disaffected all joined together in Eric's, really,
0:17:10 > 0:17:14and they were disaffected for various reasons.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17I'd spent my teenage years in children's homes.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20My mother had died when I was five. My father tried to bring me up.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22I left home at 14.
0:17:22 > 0:17:27Holly and I and Pete Burns, the glam caucus of the Eric's scene,
0:17:27 > 0:17:30what we had in common was, we were all abused children
0:17:30 > 0:17:33and we were wearing our neurosis.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39Eric's house band was Big In Japan.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43Less than the sum of its parts, it included people who would go on
0:17:43 > 0:17:46to achieve massive success in the future -
0:17:46 > 0:17:49Ian Broudie from The Lightning Seeds.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54Holly Johnson of Frankie Goes To Hollywood.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00And it was formed by Bill Drummond, a set designer,
0:18:00 > 0:18:04who went on to sell millions of records as founder of The KLF.
0:18:08 > 0:18:10And we had the Tony Hatch Book of Pop,
0:18:10 > 0:18:13which was the rules of pop music,
0:18:13 > 0:18:15and the first rule was,
0:18:15 > 0:18:17"If your singer can't sing, she must have big breasts."
0:18:17 > 0:18:19So we knew we'd be fine!
0:18:21 > 0:18:25Bill, he was a big sort of strapping Scotsman,
0:18:25 > 0:18:27who wore a kilt for the performances.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30He lived just near to me mum's.
0:18:30 > 0:18:35And we would get the 86 bus together to rehearsals every day,
0:18:35 > 0:18:36sometimes not speaking.
0:18:38 > 0:18:40Bill was just a weirdo, you know?
0:18:40 > 0:18:42There was this fascinating clash
0:18:42 > 0:18:46between avant-garde, counter-culture ideas
0:18:46 > 0:18:49and a really strong Presbyterian background
0:18:49 > 0:18:51and that was really interesting.
0:18:51 > 0:18:55# Suicide a go-go... #
0:18:55 > 0:18:58Big In Japan had a theatrical aspect.
0:18:58 > 0:19:03But each individual was doing their own thing
0:19:03 > 0:19:06and doing what THEY thought was performing.
0:19:06 > 0:19:10MUSIC: "Suicide A Go Go" by Big In Japan
0:19:10 > 0:19:13Everyone acted out their fantasy
0:19:13 > 0:19:20of what art-pop, New Wave superstar was.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24And that's partly why it disintegrated.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34With Big In Japan no more, Bill Drummond, with his partner,
0:19:34 > 0:19:38Dave Balfe, decided to set up his own indie record label, Zoo,
0:19:38 > 0:19:43to showcase other bands emerging from Eric's.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46MUSIC: Pictures On My Wall by Echo and the Bunnymen
0:19:46 > 0:19:49We did ask Bill Drummond for an interview
0:19:49 > 0:19:53but in the independent spirit, he decided he'd rather do it himself
0:19:53 > 0:19:55so he sent us this message.
0:19:56 > 0:20:00August, 1978, Liverpool.
0:20:00 > 0:20:01Big In Japan.
0:20:01 > 0:20:03Our band.
0:20:03 > 0:20:05We were never going to be the one-hit wonders
0:20:05 > 0:20:07we dreamed we would be.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09So we split the band.
0:20:09 > 0:20:10The dream was over.
0:20:10 > 0:20:14Dave Balfe, a recently recruited bass player,
0:20:14 > 0:20:16asked me what I was planning on doing next,
0:20:16 > 0:20:19and I said, "Forming a record label."
0:20:19 > 0:20:22And he said, "Can I do it with you?" And I said, "Fine."
0:20:22 > 0:20:26And he said, "What do you think we should call the record label?"
0:20:26 > 0:20:29And I said, "Bill's Records." And he said, "That's a crap name."
0:20:29 > 0:20:32And I said, "OK, so what do you think we should call it?"
0:20:32 > 0:20:34And he said, "The Zoo." And I said, "Fine."
0:20:35 > 0:20:39So we started recording and we ALMOST succeeded
0:20:39 > 0:20:42in recording bands that had never been heard of before
0:20:42 > 0:20:45and were never going to be heard of again.
0:20:45 > 0:20:47But people wanted to hear these bands again
0:20:47 > 0:20:50and the bands wanted to make more records.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53By 1980, the dream was over.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58# Love it all... #
0:20:58 > 0:21:06Zoo was the vision of Bill and Dave to try and make 50 quid.
0:21:06 > 0:21:11I think it was inspired by Buzzcocks' Spiral Scratch single,
0:21:11 > 0:21:14which was a very important single
0:21:14 > 0:21:16to many Northern musicians
0:21:16 > 0:21:19to see that, you know, someone could actually do that,
0:21:19 > 0:21:21and have a kind of hit.
0:21:21 > 0:21:26We thought, "Well, why can't we do that?" And so they did.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32We just felt total amateurs. That's the main thing we felt.
0:21:32 > 0:21:35We were running on ridiculous budgets.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38We were all basically subsidised by the dole.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41We would just about make 300 or 400 quid profit
0:21:41 > 0:21:44on about 1,000 seven-inches, if we were lucky.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48In 1979, this is how it worked at The Zoo.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51Balfey and I would record the band in Liverpool.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53We'd take the tape down to London in the Balfemobile.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55We'd go round to the mastering rooms,
0:21:55 > 0:21:56Alan would master it and cut it,
0:21:56 > 0:21:58we'd take the acetate up to Lyntone pressing plant
0:21:58 > 0:21:59off the Holloway Road.
0:21:59 > 0:22:02We'd ask them to press up 2,000 copies of the record.
0:22:02 > 0:22:04They'd say, "It takes two weeks." We'd drive back up to Liverpool.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07Kev Ward or Alan Gill would design a record sleeve.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09We'd have the sleeve printed down the Dock Road.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12Two weeks later we'd drive back down to London, with the sleeves,
0:22:12 > 0:22:14go into Lyntone, pick up the 2,000 records,
0:22:14 > 0:22:17drive round to Rough Trade record shop, go in, play it to Geoff.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19Geoff would say, "Great! I'll have 1,000 copies."
0:22:19 > 0:22:21We'd go out to the car, sleeve up the records,
0:22:21 > 0:22:22take it in, he'd hand us a cheque.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24We'd drive down to Beggars' Banquet record shop,
0:22:24 > 0:22:26somewhere south, I'd play it to Martin,
0:22:26 > 0:22:28Martin'd say, "Great! I want 200 copies!"
0:22:28 > 0:22:29We'd hand it over, get a cheque.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32Then we'd drive over to Walthamstow, go into Small Wonder record shop,
0:22:32 > 0:22:35play it to Pete, Pete would say, "Great, I'll have 400 copies!"
0:22:35 > 0:22:37Give us a cheque. Drive back up to Liverpool.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39Go into Probe Records. They'd say,
0:22:39 > 0:22:42"It's rubbish, but we'll have all of what you've got left,"
0:22:42 > 0:22:43and we'd hand them over.
0:22:43 > 0:22:44Except we'd keep a box for ourselves.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47We'd give two copies to each member of the band, one for himself
0:22:47 > 0:22:48one for the mother.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51Then we'd go up to Mike at the bank. We'd hand in the cheques.
0:22:51 > 0:22:56Then we'd write out cheques and send them out to the studios,
0:22:56 > 0:23:00the printers, the pressing plant, the band,
0:23:00 > 0:23:02and then we'd send a copy out to each of the music papers,
0:23:02 > 0:23:06The Record Mirror, the Sounds, the Melody Maker,
0:23:06 > 0:23:08er...NME,
0:23:08 > 0:23:10and a week later, it'd be record of the week
0:23:10 > 0:23:11in one of them, or most of them.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14The next day, Geoff would phone us from Rough Trade and say,
0:23:14 > 0:23:16"I want 1,000 more copies of that record."
0:23:16 > 0:23:19That's how it worked then. It was simple.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23# This is the band
0:23:23 > 0:23:24# Speaking... #
0:23:24 > 0:23:28In its brief two-year span, Zoo launched the careers
0:23:28 > 0:23:30of two of the most influential bands of the '80s,
0:23:30 > 0:23:32Echo and the Bunnymen
0:23:32 > 0:23:35and The Teardrop Explodes,
0:23:35 > 0:23:38and hoped to create a sparkling, new kind of Mersey Beat.
0:23:38 > 0:23:41MUSIC: Crocodiles by Echo and the Bunnymen
0:23:52 > 0:23:56They're all really great songs that you can whistle on a ladder.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00You see, I come from Liverpool,
0:24:00 > 0:24:03where the Beatles were drip-fed into you at birth,
0:24:03 > 0:24:09and proper songs and catchy lyrics and melody lines
0:24:09 > 0:24:10were a part of your DNA
0:24:10 > 0:24:16and musical and melodic songwriting really was part of the tradition.
0:24:16 > 0:24:20It was like really good songwriting in a sort of punk clothing,
0:24:20 > 0:24:22if you know what I mean.
0:24:22 > 0:24:23# ..what you doing today?
0:24:23 > 0:24:27# I'm gonna do tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow
0:24:33 > 0:24:35# Oh! #
0:24:35 > 0:24:37Thank you!
0:24:37 > 0:24:39MUSIC: Blue Boy by Orange Juice
0:24:48 > 0:24:51At the same time, another unique city sound was emerging.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55This time, the scene revolved around Postcard Records,
0:24:55 > 0:24:57north of the border in Scotland.
0:24:57 > 0:25:00And the music was also really melodic,
0:25:00 > 0:25:02borrowing heavily from funk and Motown.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05It was seen very much as a reaction against punk.
0:25:07 > 0:25:10# ..listening to her lying tongue... #
0:25:10 > 0:25:14Postcard really, really wanted to celebrate and borrow
0:25:14 > 0:25:16and steal bits of the past
0:25:16 > 0:25:20to create an incredibly refreshing, modern now.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23It was a wonderful magpie aesthetic.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25But it also had a richness to it that
0:25:25 > 0:25:28came from the talent of the people involved.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35The label was founded in Glasgow by Alan Horne,
0:25:35 > 0:25:37a self-styled boy genius
0:25:37 > 0:25:41who ran the whole operation from a shelf in his wardrobe.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44We have here the Orange Juice fan mail.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49Alan Horne's mercurial ideas about running a record company,
0:25:49 > 0:25:54what he could get away with, who he could annoy, who he could agitate.
0:25:54 > 0:25:59And really dismissive of so much of what became known as post-punk.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02"Yes, I understand confrontation. I understand aggression.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05"But I'm not really interested in ripped clothes and air guitars.
0:26:05 > 0:26:07"I'm going to do all that, but I'm going to do it
0:26:07 > 0:26:11"with shortbread biscuit tins, '60s guitars,
0:26:11 > 0:26:14"fringes, haircuts and charm."
0:26:19 > 0:26:23Leading the way on the charm front were Orange Juice.
0:26:23 > 0:26:26And their fresh-faced frontman Edwyn Collins embraced everything
0:26:26 > 0:26:29that Postcard stood for.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32MUSIC: Simply Thrilled Honey by Orange Juice
0:26:32 > 0:26:38# I choose to rid myself of this tired, old clique
0:26:39 > 0:26:43# You return to stand as one... #
0:26:43 > 0:26:46We did feel that, when the label started,
0:26:46 > 0:26:49that it was the beginning of kind of a new age.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51I think the first record on Orange Juice,
0:26:51 > 0:26:54it was like one day in the studio and we recorded three songs.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57But what was good about Postcard Records, the idea was
0:26:57 > 0:26:59Alan wanting to have a hit single,
0:26:59 > 0:27:01independently, on Postcard Records.
0:27:01 > 0:27:06# Worldliness must keep apart from me... #
0:27:09 > 0:27:13Alan Horne and Edwyn Collins, they wanted their own hit factory,
0:27:13 > 0:27:15they wanted their own production line.
0:27:15 > 0:27:20And any visit to London was an excuse to taunt London.
0:27:20 > 0:27:23"We're going to sit in our bedsit here in the West End of Glasgow
0:27:23 > 0:27:26"and start a revolution with this box of singles."
0:27:32 > 0:27:34I thought it was great, what they were doing.
0:27:34 > 0:27:36It was a much more poppy sound.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38It was much more accessible to radio,
0:27:38 > 0:27:42and that was probably what Alan Horne was looking for.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45He was looking for poppy acts because he liked that kind of music.
0:27:45 > 0:27:51The idea that these effeminate yobs could represent the Scotland
0:27:51 > 0:27:55of 1980 is ridiculous, and would have been ridiculous to them.
0:27:58 > 0:28:00If you were to say, "The sound of young Scotland,"
0:28:00 > 0:28:03you'd still think of Postcard. There's so much
0:28:03 > 0:28:06that has gone overground that has grown from those roots.
0:28:10 > 0:28:15With Orange Juice, The Go-Betweens, Josef K
0:28:15 > 0:28:19and Aztec Camera, Postcard exploded onto the music scene.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25And there was no shortage of ambition at Postcard
0:28:25 > 0:28:29but, in common with other young independent labels of the time,
0:28:29 > 0:28:31there wasn't always a firm hand on the finances.
0:28:33 > 0:28:36You know, Alan pretty much was Postcard Records.
0:28:36 > 0:28:40It was run on a shoestring, which was kind of quite frustrating.
0:28:40 > 0:28:41I remember we used to try
0:28:41 > 0:28:44and persuade Alan to maybe take on a partner.
0:28:44 > 0:28:49Because he didn't run the business, Edwyn would say to us,
0:28:49 > 0:28:51"You know, you won't get any royalties.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54"Alan's spent all the money on Kentucky Fried Chicken."
0:28:54 > 0:28:59Despite the amateurish aesthetic, Postcard possessed
0:28:59 > 0:29:04a precociousness that was embraced by John Peel and the music press.
0:29:04 > 0:29:08Yet the mainstream chart hits Horne really longed for were to elude him.
0:29:16 > 0:29:20MUSIC: Gangsters by The Specials
0:29:24 > 0:29:28It was here in the West Midlands that another young maverick in a bedsit
0:29:28 > 0:29:32was looking to the past to set up an indie label.
0:29:32 > 0:29:36This time, it was the ska records of Jamaica and the multiculturalism of
0:29:36 > 0:29:40his adopted city of Coventry that were the inspirations.
0:29:40 > 0:29:43# Said you've been threatened by gangsters...
0:29:43 > 0:29:46It was here that the 2 Tone label was founded,
0:29:46 > 0:29:48just past the dog groomer's.
0:29:53 > 0:29:55It's not like anywhere else.
0:29:55 > 0:30:00It really is an almost closed little enclave.
0:30:00 > 0:30:02Wolverhampton was like a foreign country.
0:30:02 > 0:30:05Go to Dudley, it was like, "Ooh, the jet-set."
0:30:05 > 0:30:10You just didn't expect anybody to take any notice of you,
0:30:10 > 0:30:13so you become an insulated little music society, really.
0:30:13 > 0:30:16# I was there, we were having some fun
0:30:16 > 0:30:19# When they come and take me away
0:30:19 > 0:30:222 Tone was ostensibly set up by Jerry Dammers.
0:30:22 > 0:30:24It was his idea, his brainchild.
0:30:24 > 0:30:29With a label which had a very specific identity
0:30:29 > 0:30:30and a specific remit,
0:30:30 > 0:30:33which was to be anti-racist, anti-sexist.
0:30:33 > 0:30:36I think that young people seized on that and said,
0:30:36 > 0:30:37"Yes, we understand that."
0:30:39 > 0:30:42# Oh, danger, danger
0:30:42 > 0:30:45# There's going to be a terrible fight! #
0:30:45 > 0:30:46Well, Jerry's a genius.
0:30:46 > 0:30:50Those songs are absolutely the best 1970s punk songs, you know.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53# You've done too much, much too young... #
0:30:53 > 0:30:55"You've done too much, much too young"
0:30:55 > 0:30:58"Now you're married with a kid and you should be..."
0:30:58 > 0:31:00I mean, that's so true.
0:31:00 > 0:31:02# With me... #
0:31:04 > 0:31:07Along with his own band, The Specials,
0:31:07 > 0:31:10Dammers signed a number of local acts to the label...
0:31:12 > 0:31:15..including The Selecter and The Beat.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18Success was instantaneous.
0:31:18 > 0:31:20# You!
0:31:24 > 0:31:27# Try wearing a cap! #
0:31:27 > 0:31:30Jerry's songs, to me, were a social comment.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33From where we all lived at that time, in Coventry,
0:31:33 > 0:31:36those songs were absolutely spot-on.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41I would say that Jerry was the visionary, in that respect.
0:31:41 > 0:31:45Mixing up rock music with ska music, which was a much more
0:31:45 > 0:31:49up-ful beat than reggae, and turning it into music that people
0:31:49 > 0:31:54could dance to, as well as music that people could think about.
0:31:56 > 0:31:58And, at that time, there was plenty to say.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00If you were a young black kid in particular,
0:32:00 > 0:32:03there were sus laws on the street, so you could be picked up
0:32:03 > 0:32:06by the police at the drop of a hat for no reason at all.
0:32:06 > 0:32:08# What's up?! #
0:32:08 > 0:32:12For that very, very brief period of time between -
0:32:12 > 0:32:15what? - 1979 and 1982,
0:32:15 > 0:32:19pretty much everything that the 2 Tone label put out became hits.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25# But when I switch on, rotate the dial... #
0:32:25 > 0:32:28There was a time, I believe, in 1979, early 1980,
0:32:28 > 0:32:33where there were three bands, all from a tiny label called 2 Tone,
0:32:33 > 0:32:36who were all on Top Of The Pops at the same time, which, you know,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39even Peter Powell had to wear black and white on that occasion!
0:32:39 > 0:32:41- # On my radio! - It's just the same old show
0:32:41 > 0:32:44- # On my radio! - It's just the same old show... #
0:32:44 > 0:32:47Unlike the other independents of the time,
0:32:47 > 0:32:492 Tone was pop, and it had hits.
0:32:49 > 0:32:50# On my radio!
0:32:50 > 0:32:51# On my radio!
0:32:51 > 0:32:53# On my radio... #
0:32:57 > 0:32:59But, in common with a lot of the other indies,
0:32:59 > 0:33:03it was driven by a charismatic Svengali figure.
0:33:06 > 0:33:08Jerry Dammers was in a different league.
0:33:08 > 0:33:10His actual vision was quite brilliant.
0:33:10 > 0:33:13The money for the first record - that came from his landlord
0:33:13 > 0:33:16because he hadn't paid his rent for so long, so to get him out,
0:33:16 > 0:33:18he made him pay for the record.
0:33:18 > 0:33:19And you know, that's Jerry.
0:33:19 > 0:33:23And that's independent. That's what you had to do.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31I think, with anybody who was involved in 2 Tone,
0:33:31 > 0:33:33there were always two of them.
0:33:33 > 0:33:34They were the person you saw on stage
0:33:34 > 0:33:37and there was the person you saw on the tour bus.
0:33:37 > 0:33:39They weren't necessarily the same thing.
0:33:39 > 0:33:41Now, this is a record Richard Brad gave to me
0:33:41 > 0:33:43when I shared a house with Brad...
0:33:43 > 0:33:44LAUGHTER
0:33:44 > 0:33:48Jerry was the very, very sharp mind
0:33:48 > 0:33:54but affected this kind of...bumbling nature.
0:33:54 > 0:33:55Nice piece of mohair.
0:33:56 > 0:33:59THEY LAUGH AND CHEER
0:33:59 > 0:34:01That puts people off their guard.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03They don't really know how to handle that.
0:34:03 > 0:34:07But what's going on behind it is something completely different.
0:34:07 > 0:34:10And there's somebody who knows completely what they're doing.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16You've also got to remember that Jerry was middle class.
0:34:16 > 0:34:20Most of the rest of the people who made up those weren't.
0:34:20 > 0:34:23He went to private school in Coventry.
0:34:23 > 0:34:25That gives you a sense of entitlement
0:34:25 > 0:34:29and he knew how to use that with record company types,
0:34:29 > 0:34:31who probably also went to private schools
0:34:31 > 0:34:35and all those kind of things, and were university educated.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38When you saw him without his teeth, he was the darling of the NME.
0:34:38 > 0:34:41What sort of pop star takes his teeth out, you know?
0:34:41 > 0:34:43He did have false teeth when I first knew him.
0:34:43 > 0:34:45Boosh, stood on them.
0:34:47 > 0:34:48Brilliant.
0:34:48 > 0:34:51MUSIC: Ghost Town by The Specials
0:34:51 > 0:34:56Almost inevitably, tensions tore the label and the band apart.
0:34:56 > 0:35:00But not before they'd had time to create their masterpiece.
0:35:00 > 0:35:05With record high unemployment leading to rioting in the streets,
0:35:05 > 0:35:07Ghost Town topped the charts.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10# People getting angry... #
0:35:11 > 0:35:13Within two short years, 2 Tone had burst out
0:35:13 > 0:35:17of its West Midlands bubble and taken the pulse of the nation.
0:35:21 > 0:35:24# This town
0:35:24 > 0:35:28# Is comin' like a ghost town
0:35:28 > 0:35:30# This town
0:35:30 > 0:35:32# Is comin' like a ghost town. #
0:35:38 > 0:35:42In London, Daniel Miller had created a label to release just one record.
0:35:42 > 0:35:44# TV OD
0:35:44 > 0:35:46# TV OD... #
0:35:46 > 0:35:49His passion for a then-unfashionable form of music would ensure
0:35:49 > 0:35:53that Mute would ultimately achieve great things on a global scale.
0:35:53 > 0:35:58# La la, la la la... #
0:35:58 > 0:36:02Electronic music at that time was associated with prog rock bands
0:36:02 > 0:36:06like Emerson, Lake and Palmer or Yes, a very overblown,
0:36:06 > 0:36:09fake-classical music which I hated as much as punk did.
0:36:09 > 0:36:12MUSIC: Wondrous Stories by Yes
0:36:14 > 0:36:18I wanted to harness that energy and spirit and put it into
0:36:18 > 0:36:20the kind of music that I really loved, which was electronic music.
0:36:20 > 0:36:23MUSIC: New Life by Depeche Mode
0:36:23 > 0:36:26His love for electronic music led Miller to
0:36:26 > 0:36:28one of the biggest finds of the '80s.
0:36:33 > 0:36:35# I stand still stepping on the shady streets
0:36:35 > 0:36:39# And I watched that man to a stranger... #
0:36:39 > 0:36:41I don't know why, but I decided to watch the support band.
0:36:41 > 0:36:43They were kids with these really dodgy,
0:36:43 > 0:36:45home-made kind of New Romantic clothes.
0:36:45 > 0:36:47But each one had a little synth,
0:36:47 > 0:36:50and they were teetering on the edge beer crates.
0:36:50 > 0:36:51# New life, new life... #
0:36:51 > 0:36:55They played one song and I thought, "This is really good."
0:36:55 > 0:36:58Then they played another song and I thought... And the whole set
0:36:58 > 0:37:01was just, like, unbelievable synth-pop,
0:37:01 > 0:37:04brilliantly arranged and really great songs.
0:37:09 > 0:37:12And so, I went backstage afterwards and I said to them,
0:37:12 > 0:37:14"That was great. I'd love to... Are you playing again?"
0:37:14 > 0:37:17Because sometimes you can't quite believe what you hear.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20And they were kind of being slightly cool, but not really, you know?
0:37:20 > 0:37:23More shy, I think. And they knew Mute, and they were fans of Mute,
0:37:23 > 0:37:26and they said, "Yeah, we're playing here again next week,"
0:37:26 > 0:37:29so I went back, and I said, "Let's do a single," and they said, "OK."
0:37:29 > 0:37:30And that was it.
0:37:32 > 0:37:34One of the things that was so attractive to Daniel
0:37:34 > 0:37:37about Depeche Mode was that everything was portable.
0:37:37 > 0:37:39This isn't gadgetry on Tomorrow's World,
0:37:39 > 0:37:42this is actually the real thing. We're playing without a roadie,
0:37:42 > 0:37:44we're doing it out of a hatchback, and we can stand here,
0:37:44 > 0:37:46and we can fill this place,
0:37:46 > 0:37:49and we could be in the charts, and we could be really successful,
0:37:49 > 0:37:51and it's just us, and these buttons.
0:37:53 > 0:37:57Daniel's new signing caught the attention of Seymour Stein,
0:37:57 > 0:38:01a New York A&R man with a passion for the latest British sounds.
0:38:01 > 0:38:03He would open the door to America.
0:38:03 > 0:38:07I had one of the trades - Melody Maker or...
0:38:07 > 0:38:10and it says, "Daniel Miller signs new band to Mute
0:38:10 > 0:38:12"called Depeche Mode."
0:38:12 > 0:38:15If Daniel Miller signed this band, they must be fucking great.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18I had a small office in London.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20Drove up to Basildon
0:38:20 > 0:38:23and what I saw was amazing.
0:38:23 > 0:38:27There were other bands at the time that were similar to Depeche Mode
0:38:27 > 0:38:30but none of them... If you ever saw them live,
0:38:30 > 0:38:33you would want to run out of the room. I mean, they were so awful.
0:38:33 > 0:38:36But Depeche Mode were great live, you know?
0:38:36 > 0:38:39So I signed them right there, on the spot.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42# It's getting hotter, it's a burning love
0:38:42 > 0:38:47# And I just can't seem to get enough love... #
0:38:47 > 0:38:50I think he was the first person from an American major
0:38:50 > 0:38:52who understood what was going on.
0:38:52 > 0:38:54People respected him and trusted him.
0:38:57 > 0:38:59Because he'd signed The Ramones and Talking Heads
0:38:59 > 0:39:01and lots of other people like that.
0:39:01 > 0:39:04And so, when he wanted to work with us, we thought, "It's America,
0:39:04 > 0:39:08"seems to know what he's doing, he's got good taste and he's a great guy.
0:39:08 > 0:39:10So, at that point, You just go, "Why not?"
0:39:10 > 0:39:14Punk may have been the fire that sparked much of the independent
0:39:14 > 0:39:18spirit of the '70s, but it wasn't the only game in town.
0:39:18 > 0:39:22The hippie movement had morphed into a collective of squatters and
0:39:22 > 0:39:26seekers who were experimenting with lifestyle and modes of expression.
0:39:26 > 0:39:29And from this scene sprang Throbbing Gristle
0:39:29 > 0:39:31and Industrial Records.
0:39:31 > 0:39:33The story begins in the 1970s
0:39:33 > 0:39:37when Genesis P-Orridge and his partner, Cosey Fanni Tutti,
0:39:37 > 0:39:41formed the Coum art collective whilst living in a radical commune.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45There were no walls on the bathroom or the toilet,
0:39:45 > 0:39:47so everybody could watch you.
0:39:47 > 0:39:50And clothes were all put in a box each night.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52Whoever woke up first got first choice.
0:39:52 > 0:39:53If you wanted money,
0:39:53 > 0:39:56you had to justify it to everybody else in the commune,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59and they would say, "Oh, can't you walk there?"
0:39:59 > 0:40:01"Can't you borrow a bicycle?"
0:40:01 > 0:40:02It was liberating.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06Every little bit that dropped away, we felt more freed
0:40:06 > 0:40:08and somehow more creative.
0:40:08 > 0:40:11It was an art collective and it was very...
0:40:11 > 0:40:13Because it became from people's
0:40:13 > 0:40:17own personal fetishes, interests, anything you like,
0:40:17 > 0:40:22then it was really diverse, and it got quite harsh, as well,
0:40:22 > 0:40:25and tough, and visceral.
0:40:25 > 0:40:29Performances became much, much more about transgressive behaviour.
0:40:29 > 0:40:34OK, so, you can masturbate in private,
0:40:34 > 0:40:37but why can't you masturbate in public?
0:40:37 > 0:40:41It's the same act and everybody knows what it is,
0:40:41 > 0:40:44so why is it suddenly shocking in one location,
0:40:44 > 0:40:46but totally acceptable in another?
0:40:46 > 0:40:49We started going deeper and deeper
0:40:49 > 0:40:52which, inevitably, is going to come up against the status quo.
0:40:52 > 0:40:54They hit the headlines
0:40:54 > 0:40:57with their provocative prostitution show at the ICA.
0:40:59 > 0:41:03But, tiring of the art world, they decided to try their hand at music.
0:41:03 > 0:41:06They started Throbbing Gristle,
0:41:06 > 0:41:09and a label, Industrial Records, to release it.
0:41:11 > 0:41:15Then, they began to muse on how they might mess with this form.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18THROBBING ELECTRONIC MUSIC
0:41:21 > 0:41:25What's the thing that holds down rock music the most? The drumming.
0:41:25 > 0:41:27Get rid of the drummer.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29What else?
0:41:29 > 0:41:33Lead guitarists are always trying to show off and do long solos,
0:41:33 > 0:41:37so the guitarist has to not be able to play.
0:41:37 > 0:41:39What else?
0:41:39 > 0:41:40Hm.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43No fancy music of any kind.
0:41:43 > 0:41:48Anything that makes a sound is an instrument -
0:41:48 > 0:41:53a kitchen fork, an old tin, a piece of wood, anything.
0:41:53 > 0:41:56THROBBING ELECTRONIC MUSIC
0:41:58 > 0:42:00We wanted to do everything ourselves,
0:42:00 > 0:42:02Sleazy did some of the artwork.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06The production, the editing, everything, we kept it all in-house.
0:42:06 > 0:42:08It was like a cottage industry.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14We'd met William Burroughs in 1971
0:42:14 > 0:42:18and were fascinated with his and Brion Gysin's Cut-Up deals.
0:42:20 > 0:42:23And, again, we were thinking with the music, OK,
0:42:23 > 0:42:26maybe we can cut up rock music, too.
0:42:31 > 0:42:34So, Sleazy started to build gadgets,
0:42:34 > 0:42:39using Walkman tape recorders, that had just arrived on the scene.
0:42:39 > 0:42:43And it was six Walkmans put in series.
0:42:43 > 0:42:45There were no samplers at that point.
0:42:45 > 0:42:47Nobody even knew the word "sampler" then.
0:42:47 > 0:42:49That's basically what we built.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54What excited me, on their records, it was like,
0:42:54 > 0:42:57they'd have this electronic almost Kraftwerk-type stuff.
0:42:57 > 0:43:01Then, that other track was somebody, a conversation being taped,
0:43:01 > 0:43:03which was the performance art side.
0:43:03 > 0:43:07- # Around in the neck, you know. # - # Feeling better, feeling better. #
0:43:07 > 0:43:11Then, another track about some horrible, sort of, disease
0:43:11 > 0:43:13or some sort of perversion.
0:43:13 > 0:43:15REVERBERATING ELECTRONIC MUSIC
0:43:15 > 0:43:19It was so different in everything - in the music,
0:43:19 > 0:43:23the way they executed it. Their gigs were truly alternative.
0:43:24 > 0:43:28I went to one Throbbing Gristle gig.
0:43:28 > 0:43:30In those days, it wasn't legal
0:43:30 > 0:43:33that you had to have a limit on the sound decibels.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36So, you'd come out of there and it's like, what had hit me?
0:43:36 > 0:43:38It was just an assault from all sides.
0:43:42 > 0:43:46But, it was establishing completely new boundaries,
0:43:46 > 0:43:50and I liked that, and I liked the art form that went with it.
0:43:51 > 0:43:55Throbbing Gristle released this, The Second Annual Report.
0:43:55 > 0:43:59Their first totally home-made album on their own label.
0:43:59 > 0:44:03To the bemusement of the band, it was met with widespread acclaim,
0:44:03 > 0:44:07and is now regarded as one of the top 40 most influential albums
0:44:07 > 0:44:10of all time by Rolling Stone magazine.
0:44:12 > 0:44:19Melody Maker and Sounds and The NME all gave it five out of five stars
0:44:19 > 0:44:23in their reviews, which blew our minds.
0:44:23 > 0:44:26We thought, "What, what? They like it?"
0:44:26 > 0:44:29THROBBING ELECTRONIC MUSIC
0:44:29 > 0:44:30# Number 354. #
0:44:30 > 0:44:33I was still at school when Cabaret Voltaire started.
0:44:33 > 0:44:40We used to do a lot of kind of Xerox art and cut-ups and things.
0:44:40 > 0:44:42So, when the first Throbbing Gristle came out,
0:44:42 > 0:44:45The Second Annual Report,
0:44:45 > 0:44:47and we got hold of a copy of that,
0:44:47 > 0:44:51and, I thought, "They seem like kindred spirits."
0:44:51 > 0:44:53Throbbing Gristle's next album
0:44:53 > 0:44:56was intended to confound on a grand scale.
0:44:56 > 0:45:01It was called 20 Jazz Funk Greats, which it wasn't.
0:45:01 > 0:45:05And, once again, proved the folly of judging an album by its cover.
0:45:05 > 0:45:07We were at home at Christmas with my mum.
0:45:07 > 0:45:11And she said, "I know why you do all these things.
0:45:11 > 0:45:16"Couldn't you just once do something with flowers, a pretty picture?"
0:45:16 > 0:45:20And we said, "Hmm...Interesting."
0:45:22 > 0:45:24It's like a Val Doonican cover, actually.
0:45:24 > 0:45:27We took a picture of a beautiful beauty spot,
0:45:27 > 0:45:29in really nice jumpers and things.
0:45:29 > 0:45:32Gen was dressed in a nice white jacket,
0:45:32 > 0:45:34and I was dressed in just a short little skirt
0:45:34 > 0:45:37and little socks and things. Like we'd gone out for a picnic.
0:45:37 > 0:45:42# Hot on the heels of love. #
0:45:44 > 0:45:46We were all smiling.
0:45:46 > 0:45:49We were right at the edge of the cliffs at Beachy Head
0:45:49 > 0:45:53where dozens of people kill themselves every year.
0:45:53 > 0:45:55But we've always thought it was interesting that
0:45:55 > 0:46:00the information you give people changes what they experience.
0:46:00 > 0:46:04We'd seen an album cover in - Woolworths was still around then -
0:46:04 > 0:46:08in the bargain bin in Woolworths. It was, like, Jazz Funk Greats.
0:46:08 > 0:46:11And it was like they couldn't sell it, you know?
0:46:11 > 0:46:12So, we said, love to do that,
0:46:12 > 0:46:15because it'll end up in Woolworths' bargain bin.
0:46:15 > 0:46:18They'd go, "Oh, 20 Jazz Funk Greats, I'll buy that, it's only 50p."
0:46:18 > 0:46:22And they'll take it home and put Throbbing Gristle on!
0:46:22 > 0:46:25And it was just... It just appealed to us.
0:46:25 > 0:46:27It was perfect because, the stuff on it,
0:46:27 > 0:46:30it shifts from one kind of sound to another.
0:46:30 > 0:46:32THROBBING ELECTRONIC MUSIC
0:46:36 > 0:46:38For us, it was about being absolutely free,
0:46:38 > 0:46:42having no constraints or restraints on content.
0:46:42 > 0:46:48And no predetermined sound being OK or sound being not OK.
0:46:48 > 0:46:51It was truly just, fuck 'em all.
0:46:53 > 0:46:58At the epicentre of the indie business emerging in the late '70s
0:46:58 > 0:46:59was Rough Trade.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01Started by Geoff Travis
0:47:01 > 0:47:05as an alternative record shop in West London
0:47:05 > 0:47:08Rough Trade, like Throbbing Gristle, had its roots
0:47:08 > 0:47:12in the post-hippie squatter movement and ran as a collective.
0:47:12 > 0:47:15Rough Trade itself was fiercely independent
0:47:15 > 0:47:18and fiercely anti-establishment, anti-major label.
0:47:18 > 0:47:22And, on a day-by-day basis, was run on a, kind of, equal pay,
0:47:22 > 0:47:24equal voice structure.
0:47:26 > 0:47:29We were into ideas and into DIY.
0:47:29 > 0:47:31And the DIY thing caught on very quickly.
0:47:31 > 0:47:33It spread like a disease.
0:47:35 > 0:47:39Within a few years of Rough Trade establishing itself as a label,
0:47:39 > 0:47:42The Cartel was created.
0:47:42 > 0:47:46# The future's open wide. #
0:47:46 > 0:47:49It was a distribution network run from their shop
0:47:49 > 0:47:52and it would revolutionise the independent record scene.
0:47:52 > 0:47:56The idea was, you could walk up to the counter with a tape
0:47:56 > 0:47:59and, if the people at Rough Trade liked it, they'd put it out for you.
0:47:59 > 0:48:02And nearly everyone involved in Rough Trade was sufficiently
0:48:02 > 0:48:05well-versed in Marxism to know that owning the means of production
0:48:05 > 0:48:08was central to them getting off the ground.
0:48:09 > 0:48:12It just went completely mad.
0:48:12 > 0:48:16As the mail order grew, we got more and more contacts from shops,
0:48:16 > 0:48:20and the actual reputation got around very quickly.
0:48:20 > 0:48:24I can remember the first time we went to meet Geoff from Rough Trade.
0:48:24 > 0:48:28We got off the Tube in Kensington, cos we were all a bit nervous.
0:48:28 > 0:48:31Lads from Sheffield coming down to London.
0:48:31 > 0:48:36I think we had a pub crawl all the way from Kensington to Notting Hill.
0:48:36 > 0:48:39So, we were all quite bladdered and cocky
0:48:39 > 0:48:41by the time we'd turned up there.
0:48:44 > 0:48:49You were conscious of this kind of explosion, almost like,
0:48:49 > 0:48:53if anyone can make a record, anyone can have a record label.
0:48:53 > 0:48:54And a lot of people did.
0:48:56 > 0:48:58Each of the regional companies would order
0:48:58 > 0:49:01and we would send the stock to their warehouse.
0:49:01 > 0:49:05And they would then sell it round to their local shops.
0:49:05 > 0:49:09The last time I counted, it was over 200 labels.
0:49:09 > 0:49:12And, if you think of the people who worked for those labels,
0:49:12 > 0:49:13the bands on those labels,
0:49:13 > 0:49:18we created 15 minutes for an awful lot of people
0:49:18 > 0:49:21and that, for me, was the politics of it.
0:49:21 > 0:49:24It was such a fantastic distribution system.
0:49:24 > 0:49:27The structure was there for you to put out your own records,
0:49:27 > 0:49:31and it was a really easy structure to tap into.
0:49:31 > 0:49:36Back in the day, you used to get a record, a vinyl LP printed,
0:49:36 > 0:49:39and you'd get £10 for it.
0:49:39 > 0:49:43Whereas, now, people are getting pennies for streaming.
0:49:43 > 0:49:46It was a very honest thing to have a product in your hand
0:49:46 > 0:49:49and just sell it and get the money for it. The band gets the money.
0:49:52 > 0:49:56We could sell an album, we could sell 10,000.
0:49:56 > 0:50:00And 10,000, in terms of money
0:50:00 > 0:50:04going directly back to the artist, was a huge amount of money.
0:50:04 > 0:50:07Within this new structure, there was success.
0:50:07 > 0:50:10Records being sold, money being made.
0:50:10 > 0:50:14So, it made sense to have a way of measuring what was selling well.
0:50:14 > 0:50:17"I know," thought some bright spark, "We'll have an indie chart."
0:50:17 > 0:50:20This enabled the independent music industry
0:50:20 > 0:50:23to start taking itself a bit more seriously.
0:50:25 > 0:50:27It was originally my idea,
0:50:27 > 0:50:30I came up with the idea towards the end of 1979.
0:50:30 > 0:50:33It seemed to me obvious to have a proper independent chart.
0:50:33 > 0:50:37And I approach the editor of a magazine called Record Business.
0:50:37 > 0:50:40I said to him, "Why don't you do an independent chart?
0:50:40 > 0:50:42"Because you have all the data, it's quite easy to do."
0:50:45 > 0:50:47It was a proper compiled chart,
0:50:47 > 0:50:50and dealers could see what to order and maybe what not to order.
0:50:50 > 0:50:55But also it showed other independent labels around the world
0:50:55 > 0:50:57what was selling genuinely in the UK,
0:50:57 > 0:51:01because they might want to license the rights in France, Germany,
0:51:01 > 0:51:02North America, whatever.
0:51:02 > 0:51:06If it's in the independent chart, it gives that release more credence.
0:51:09 > 0:51:12The thing that you were really attracted to was the indie chart
0:51:12 > 0:51:15which was a bible of weekly worth,
0:51:15 > 0:51:19and you'd start to see these labels over and over again.
0:51:19 > 0:51:22They became just as cool as the actual bands,
0:51:22 > 0:51:24it was like they were playing for a particular team.
0:51:24 > 0:51:30And, I suppose, Factory were the Man United, really, of those labels.
0:51:32 > 0:51:36They were beautifully-engineered design icons,
0:51:36 > 0:51:39almost bespoke products.
0:51:39 > 0:51:41It wasn't just the rough-and-ready,
0:51:41 > 0:51:44done-in-a-back-bedroom stuff, that punk had been.
0:51:49 > 0:51:54Most major labels then and now have one way of selling records,
0:51:54 > 0:51:55by getting them on the radio.
0:51:55 > 0:51:58And independents, with very few exceptions,
0:51:58 > 0:52:01have never really made records to get on the radio.
0:52:01 > 0:52:04Majors shape records and polish them to get them played on the radio.
0:52:04 > 0:52:07Independents receive what their artist wants to release
0:52:07 > 0:52:09and what is the product of their art and that's it.
0:52:09 > 0:52:11Then, you're competing in a marketplace with, in a sense,
0:52:11 > 0:52:14one hand tied behind your back because you're not playing the game.
0:52:14 > 0:52:17You have to compete on the basis of my music is better than yours.
0:52:17 > 0:52:20This is Radio One. While the others are playing commercials...
0:52:20 > 0:52:23'There was still this enormous resistance to chart music.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26'Radio One was the enemy.'
0:52:26 > 0:52:28There was actually a big question
0:52:28 > 0:52:30about whether a band should do Top Of The Pops.
0:52:30 > 0:52:33For a lot of people, if you did, you'd sold out.
0:52:36 > 0:52:39'And you wanted these bands to be your darlings only.
0:52:39 > 0:52:41'You wanted it to be a secret.
0:52:41 > 0:52:43'You wanted them to be expressing
0:52:43 > 0:52:46'an ideology which stood outside the mainstream
0:52:46 > 0:52:48'which said that you were different.'
0:52:48 > 0:52:50# Ever fallen in love with someone
0:52:50 > 0:52:53# Ever fallen in love, in love with someone
0:52:53 > 0:52:55# Ever fallen in love, in love with someone
0:52:55 > 0:52:57# You shouldn't have fallen in love with. #
0:52:59 > 0:53:02The thing that was really interesting to me was,
0:53:02 > 0:53:04people were not competing.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08We weren't trying to be more successful than each other,
0:53:08 > 0:53:11or how many we sold of a particular thing.
0:53:11 > 0:53:15We were releasing things that we liked because we liked them.
0:53:15 > 0:53:18And, if other people don't like them, well, that's a pity.
0:53:18 > 0:53:21But we did it and it exists and that's still good.
0:53:21 > 0:53:25And one of the reasons Ian Curtis was so depressed
0:53:25 > 0:53:29was Joy Division were getting too popular.
0:53:29 > 0:53:31And it wasn't fun any more.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34It had become a business.
0:53:34 > 0:53:38And that was the moment when it started to change.
0:53:41 > 0:53:45At that time, Joy Division were riding high in the indie chart
0:53:45 > 0:53:49and were on the eve of an American tour.
0:53:49 > 0:53:54However, this was anything but a cause for celebration for Ian Curtis.
0:53:57 > 0:54:02Ian rang me up and we could tell that something was wrong
0:54:02 > 0:54:05just straight away from his voice.
0:54:05 > 0:54:08And then, he sang one of my songs back to me.
0:54:10 > 0:54:15# I've found nothing lying, weeping, bleeding. #
0:54:15 > 0:54:17And it was called Weeping.
0:54:17 > 0:54:20It was actually about my suicide attempt.
0:54:20 > 0:54:23And he sang it to me word perfect.
0:54:25 > 0:54:28And we knew then that he was going to try and commit suicide.
0:54:29 > 0:54:31We just knew.
0:54:32 > 0:54:35And it was before cellphones.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38Hardly anybody even had answer machines then.
0:54:38 > 0:54:42And we started ringing people in Manchester and saying,
0:54:42 > 0:54:46you've got to get round to Ian's house, he's going to kill himself.
0:54:46 > 0:54:49He just told me he'd rather be dead than go to America.
0:54:49 > 0:54:53# You didn't see me weeping on the floor. #
0:54:53 > 0:54:54No-one went round.
0:54:54 > 0:54:57The people we did speak to in Manchester,
0:54:57 > 0:54:59"Oh, he's always been dramatic."
0:55:00 > 0:55:03We couldn't persuade anyone to go.
0:55:03 > 0:55:06I felt really guilty for a long time.
0:55:06 > 0:55:10# My universe is coming from my mouth. #
0:55:13 > 0:55:16While Ian Curtis had kicked against fame,
0:55:16 > 0:55:18there were other bands on indie labels
0:55:18 > 0:55:21that were beginning to feel frustrated by the lack of success.
0:55:23 > 0:55:25We'd have loved to have had a hit record,
0:55:25 > 0:55:28but we weren't going to sell our souls to do it.
0:55:28 > 0:55:29We'd do it on our terms.
0:55:29 > 0:55:34We were getting a bit tired of Rough Trade, whereby,
0:55:34 > 0:55:39I believe the term, in the record business, is a sales plateau,
0:55:39 > 0:55:43where we'd bring an album out, it would sell 10,000,
0:55:43 > 0:55:46but never got beyond that.
0:55:46 > 0:55:48And I think we got a bit frustrated
0:55:48 > 0:55:51that we could do with getting through to more people.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53I've never been a musician,
0:55:53 > 0:55:56but I understand, if you're a musician, you want to be successful.
0:55:56 > 0:56:00You believe in your music, you want to it to be heard by as many people
0:56:00 > 0:56:03as can be around the world. You want the maximum exposure.
0:56:03 > 0:56:06You may or may not be into it for making money.
0:56:06 > 0:56:08But it's no doubt that,
0:56:08 > 0:56:12if you've got the Warners or the Universal Sony machine behind you,
0:56:12 > 0:56:14you've got more chance of success.
0:56:14 > 0:56:17# When I first saw you something stirred within me
0:56:17 > 0:56:20# You were standing sultry in the rain... #
0:56:20 > 0:56:23Whether it was Joy Division or The Smiths or Depeche Mode or whoever,
0:56:23 > 0:56:26a lot of those artists were approached by major labels
0:56:26 > 0:56:29at that time in the early days, saying,
0:56:29 > 0:56:32well, Mute/Factory/Rough Trade, they're nice labels,
0:56:32 > 0:56:35nice people, but you'll never be able to have any success with them.
0:56:35 > 0:56:38They don't have the infrastructure, they don't know what to do.
0:56:38 > 0:56:40You really need to sign to us, if you want to have global success.
0:56:40 > 0:56:46# I hope to God you're not as dumb as you make out... #
0:56:46 > 0:56:49As the majors circled with the promise of real fame and money,
0:56:49 > 0:56:53independent labels soon started to haemorrhage their talent.
0:56:53 > 0:56:57Bands who would go on to have huge commercial success,
0:56:57 > 0:57:00including Scritti Politti,
0:57:00 > 0:57:03Aztec Camera
0:57:03 > 0:57:05and Orange Juice.
0:57:06 > 0:57:10Rough Trade had almost become an A&R wing of a major label
0:57:10 > 0:57:12without any of the benefits.
0:57:12 > 0:57:13What happens then is,
0:57:13 > 0:57:15one, you don't make any money from your all your hard work.
0:57:15 > 0:57:20And, two, someone else makes all the money for themselves.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22And, I think, quite justifiably,
0:57:22 > 0:57:24after a time, Geoff certainly thought,
0:57:24 > 0:57:27I'd like to see if I can do this myself.
0:57:29 > 0:57:33A few weeks later, a very sharply-dressed 19-year-old lad
0:57:33 > 0:57:36from Manchester came into Rough Trade with a demo tape.
0:57:36 > 0:57:38It was Johnny Marr.
0:57:38 > 0:57:42A couple of days later, he was offered a full album deal.
0:57:42 > 0:57:45It was the start of Rough Trade acting and thinking
0:57:45 > 0:57:47like a proper record company.
0:57:48 > 0:57:51# All men have secrets and here is mine
0:57:51 > 0:57:53# So let it be known. #
0:57:53 > 0:57:56The ideas that began in bedsits across Britain
0:57:56 > 0:57:59would soon become the blueprint for an indie sound.
0:57:59 > 0:58:03# And yet you start to recoil Heavy words are so lightly thrown. #
0:58:03 > 0:58:06Next time, we'll discover how this outsider music
0:58:06 > 0:58:08and the indie labels that started it all,
0:58:08 > 0:58:12were able to take on the mainstream and the majors
0:58:12 > 0:58:14and beat them at their own game.
0:58:16 > 0:58:20# So, what difference does it make? #